My Husband is friends with a married woman

[jmargel]

Zilgurl,

 

There is no reason to have to explain yourself to her. She is not being a professional counselor. Are you sure she really is that? You are just taking your husband's word, a husband who has been lying, deceiving and disprespecting you.

 

A good counselor would not invite him to sleep at her place for 10 days, a good counselor would not just take one side of the story. A good counselor would not disrepect either party by continuing to talk about the other when that wasn't desired.

 

You have done everything that I would have suggested. He refuses to acknowledge your wishes and continues to hurt your feelings by doing this. You two need an impartial counselor. It sounds like he has a bond with this woman and an emotional relationship exists.

 

And he is cheating. He is preferring to spend time with her over you. A professional counselor would stop their patient from signing emails with 'Love From' to them.

 

IMO it's either he goes NC and goes to marriage counseling with a different counselor or he's moving out. 31 years is a long time. How long has this disrespect and bad communication been going on? Has he cheated before?

[Lizzie60]

No you're not ..and you know it.

 

You know they're having an affair but maybe it's easier for you to look the other way.. or to pretend that it MIGHT NOT be an affair afterall..

[freestyle]

Write out what you want to say to her first.Prepare a list of questions and statements beforehand. Have it in your hand when you call her.

 

If she tries to control the conversation by browbeating you, asking you rapid-fire questions with subtly embedded insults, without letting you respond, don`t allow it.

 

If she tries to define you, don`t allow it.Only YOU can define yourself.

 

If she makes statements that demean you (and she will, the emails prove it) turn the tables on her. Respond with questions like:

 

"How do you know?" or "What makes you say that?" etc.

 

If you ask her a question and she tries to deflect it, keep repeating the same question.

 

There`s another website that may help you prepare for the confrontation.

Check out kickbully.com

If that `s not the actual address, google " bullying " and find the site with

the word "kickbully".

 

It will give you step-by-step instruction on how to handle confrontations.

[freestyle]

I wonder if there is an ethics board for counselling like there is for lawyers

(with the bar association)

 

Are there repercussions for poor or unprofessional conduct? Can a license be yanked?

 

Does anyone know?

[freestyle]

Here`s the link: http://www.kickbully.com/page3d1a4.html

 

 

If you do choose to confront her, this may help you to be more assertive.

 

There are also some great articles on gaslighting. Your husband`s doing it,

and I think she is too. Wonder who actually started it.

[2sure]

He is having an affair. Period. Not all affairs include , or start with physical sex. But that doesnt change the fact that it is an affair and damaging your marriage just as any infidelity does.

 

Couple that with the fact that your H, upon your discovery of the affair - makes no apology and insists that you accept it.

 

With any infidelity, the initial heavy lifting must come from the betrayed spouse. Your H, at this time, is so caught up with his own needs and the fantasy relationship this affair has developed - that he is unwilling to give it up as well as unable to understand what he is doing.

 

The first step is to reveal the affair. Whether he likes it or not. Whether there is to be recovery or divorce. There is nothing in the middle, if this isnt done , it WILL continue (with her or someone else). Call her H and tell him what you have discovered and that it makes you uncomfortable. No sense in calling her - she has already decided to betray you.

 

Revealing the affair will give you some help in stopping it. Stopping it, even against your H's will does 2 things. It creates a window of opportunity for communication between the spouses w/o the OW directly involved. Its a window that helps break the affair fog. Revealing the A also stops you from being the only victim suffering the consequences of their actions. They think its harmless because they feel no pain.

__________________

[IfWishesWereHorses]

2sure, it sounds like OW and her H have an open R and H is also a friend of WS. I find that hard to believe, but I understand that plenty of people operate this way.

[2sure]

Even if the other couple has, in writing, an open marriage...

That doesnt mean that the OW's H will not feel a boundary has been crossed, or that thier open marriage extends to the marriages of other people. Even if the other H is not threatened, he may respect that YOU are. Additionally, it is quite possible that there is no "written" open marriage agreement and / or that he is unaware of the extent of his wife's relationship with your H.

 

People with open marriages often demand only one thing: honesty and trust of each other. Its awful if they can not respect that you and your husband do not have an open marriage, you didnt sign anything with him or with them.

[MistyK]

Yes, he's definitely having an Affair. This is exactly how it started with xMM. As soon as we both started complaining about our marriages to each other, the EA began. Not long after, a PA began. Those emails are indicative of a real emotional connection and I would put money on it that they've had a PA.

 

Just like your H, xMM refused to stop contact with me. He would tell her he would and then she'd find out otherwise. Eventually he simply told her that he wasn't willing to give me up. Your H didn't even try lying that he'd stop contact initially. It sounds like an exit affair.

 

Your H has NO boundaries, so it doesn't sound like he's in much of a position to tell you that your idea of boundaries is wrong. He violated the boundaries and is sending you a clear message that he wants to continue a obviously inappropriate relationship. So the question is no longer - is he having an affair - it's really that he IS having an Affair and is Refusing to stop. Now what are you going to do about it?

 

It honestly sounds like he is just a total coward and wants you to be the one to end it.

[zilgurl]

You need to keep talking rather than emailing. I find that emails are not the best comms mode for sensitive subjects - besides as H and W , you should be each others priority, so it shouldn't be a problem to make time to talk , however busy you are. You need to hear each others voices, and it shouldn't be a problem since you should be able to reach him at any time, and vice versa.

 

 

 

So, he asked you to wait, and you committed to that even though he refused to commit to not discussing you with people who are not friends of your M. So basically, you have told him, you will meet his needs irrespective of whether or not he holds his end of the "bargain".

 

As you know one needs to handle people who have trouble with boundaries by exemplary action until they get the message that you mean business. At best it is like bringing up child and at worst it is like training a dog. You need to be to an extent like a scratched record. Don't whine, but repeat your requests (preferably as actions) gently but firmly, and when he doesn't cooperate, there must be consequences. You didn't "do anything" because he asked and he now has the impression that you have nothing to do besides waiting.

 

 

Yes Im aware that emails are bad when talking about sensitive subjects. He emailed quite a loving email when he was away last couple of nights and then ended with me asking him to respect my personal boundaries and not talk about me but when he was away. He took from that that I was being controlling. Normally phones but only talk about weather then we finish.

[whichwayisup]

He told you being controlling because he doesn't want you to KNOW what he's really up to. He's totally gaslighting you, reflecting back to you so the focus will be taken off of him.

You're far from controlling. And I think you have EVERY RIGHT to be concerned, upset, hurt, jealous, angry, feel betrayed by him and the way he's acting right now.

[zilgurl]

Zilgurl,

 

There is no reason to have to explain yourself to her. She is not being a professional counselor. Are you sure she really is that? You are just taking your husband's word, a husband who has been lying, deceiving and disprespecting you.

 

A good counselor would not invite him to sleep at her place for 10 days, a good counselor would not just take one side of the story. A good counselor would not disrepect either party by continuing to talk about the other when that wasn't desired.

 

You have done everything that I would have suggested. He refuses to acknowledge your wishes and continues to hurt your feelings by doing this. You two need an impartial counselor. It sounds like he has a bond with this woman and an emotional relationship exists.

 

And he is cheating. He is preferring to spend time with her over you. A professional counselor would stop their patient from signing emails with 'Love From' to them.

 

IMO it's either he goes NC and goes to marriage counseling with a different counselor or he's moving out. 31 years is a long time. How long has this disrespect and bad communication been going on? Has he cheated before?

I do believe she is a trained counsellor- Im not doubting that. He would argue that he prefers to spend more time with her.. I have suggested we get counselling from someone we are both agreeable to. He said hes OK but the subject has not been broached since I first raised in in an email when he was away a coule of weeks ago. (by the way what does IMO and NC stand for? Intersting question re has he cheated before. I had a breakdown in 2003 because he formed a relationshoip with another colleague and I began to get excluded. That time the women was more lurid and suggestive in the way she spoke to him. I complained about that but got "Its all in your head". The end result was a breakdown for over 12 months. Thought Id learned my lesson but here I am on the same treadmill. Obviously didnt get the learning the first tiime round. This time Im more in touch with myself and resolute. By the way Karma came to get her and she died.

[2sure]

Iy the way what does IMO and NC stand

for?

IMO - In my opinion

NC - No Contact

re has he cheated before. I had a breakdown in 2003 because he formed a relationship with another colleague and I began to get excluded. That time the women was more lurid and suggestive in the way she spoke to him. I complained about that but got "Its all in your head".

This all in your head crap is called GASLIGHTING, look into it

 

The end result was a breakd. own for over 12 monthsThought Id learned my lesson but here I am on the same treadmill.

You did nothing and got no results. The repeat performance is because you are the victim, the only victim - it is harmless for him to have affairs.

 

By the way Karma came to get her and she died.

Thats not Karma. Your spite was satisfied. You took no action with your husband, but the OW dies and thats what she deserved?? You dont really think that.

[jmargel]

Zilgurl,

 

What he is doing by saying you are 'controlling' or 'its in your head' is called blanket statements. My wife did that when she was seeing someone behind my back. It's a way of them trying to justify to themselves on what they are doing is harmless, while also allowing them to which to an offensive stance so the subject isn't about them.

 

I must've heard from my wife that I was 'crazy' and 'paranoid' about a thousand times. The only thing that helped me in finding resolution to this was to tell her to leave, that I was divorcing. Only then did she really start to think about what she was doing. I pulled the safety net from her. Four years later, no I won't trust her 100%. I've forgiven but not forgotten. It's the price she has to pay.

 

As for your situation it sounds like he did this before and is using the same tactics. You see the issue here isn't about what he's saying about you to this woman and it's not about this woman in general. She has no loyality to you. He's the one that does. He has continiously crossed boundaries in the marriage. With his type of behavior good chance he has cheated on you in the past, just that you haven't found out about the others. Please get checked for STDs.

 

The thing is, you can't put your own self-worth into him. When a spouse does that and their partner cheats then it's almost like an emotional killing that happens. That is when depression and suicide kicks in. You need to know that he does these things because of his selfish personality. His lack of morals and his unwillingness to give to others. He's going to justify his behavior every way possible.

 

Let me ask you, what are you getting out of this marriage? When were you truly at peace with this guy? When was the last time you fully trusted him?

 

I know you are afraid of the unknown and afraid of admitting that these past 31 years with him could've been better spent on a more mature, loving man. Your life isn't over, there's plenty to experience with the right man. If he's not willing to go NC (no contact) and MC (marriage counseling), then know you have tried everything. That you can walk away with a clear conscious and that it's ok to do so.

 

Oh, IMO is In My Opinion.

[2sunny]

did you call her? i hope you did... and tell her to give your H as message... "don't bother coming home, it's over"

[Thornton]

He is gaslighting you with all the stuff about you trying to be manipulative and controlling - he's blaming you in order to excuse his own bad behaviour. You are entitled to set your own boundaries - he doesn't have to like them. You say where that line is drawn, and he chooses whether he wishes to comply with that or end the relationship. Either way, you do not budge or he'll think he can get away with manipulating you - you tell him what is and is not acceptable, and he either abides by that or he's dumped. You tell him that you will not stand for him seeing this woman again, and he either agrees or the relationship is over. Sorry but I have a very low tolerance for crap; it's my way or the highway.

[zilgurl]

Zilgurl,

 

What he is doing by saying you are 'controlling' or 'its in your head' is called blanket statements. My wife did that when she was seeing someone behind my back. It's a way of them trying to justify to themselves on what they are doing is harmless, while also allowing them to which to an offensive stance so the subject isn't about them.

 

I must've heard from my wife that I was 'crazy' and 'paranoid' about a thousand times. The only thing that helped me in finding resolution to this was to tell her to leave, that I was divorcing. Only then did she really start to think about what she was doing. I pulled the safety net from her. Four years later, no I won't trust her 100%. I've forgiven but not forgotten. It's the price she has to pay.

 

As for your situation it sounds like he did this before and is using the same tactics. You see the issue here isn't about what he's saying about you to this woman and it's not about this woman in general. She has no loyality to you. He's the one that does. He has continiously crossed boundaries in the marriage. With his type of behavior good chance he has cheated on you in the past, just that you haven't found out about the others. Please get checked for STDs.

The thing is, you can't put your own self-worth into him. When a spouse does that and their partner cheats then it's almost like an emotional killing that happens. That is when depression and suicide kicks in. You need to know that he does these things because of his selfish personality. His lack of morals and his unwillingness to give to others. He's going to justify his behavior every way possible.

 

Let me ask you, what are you getting out of this marriage? When were you truly at peace with this guy? When was the last time you fully trusted him?

 

I know you are afraid of the unknown and afraid of admitting that these past 31 years with him could've been better spent on a more mature, loving man. Your life isn't over, there's plenty to experience with the right man. If he's not willing to go NC (no contact) and MC (marriage counseling), then know you have tried everything. That you can walk away with a clear conscious and that it's ok to do so.

 

Oh, IMO is In My Opinion.

My response- Yes I totally agree it is about him. yes I agree they are tactics. To be fair I dont agree he has continuously crossed boundaries. I agree that he had and is presently but it has not been an ongoing continuous thing. I guess you cant make accurate judgements without knowing the guy. Oddly enough I actually dont have any sense that he has f**ked anyone outside of the marriage.

 

Totally agree that I cannot put the responsibility for my self worth in his hands it is my responsibility and I have been/ am doing this right now. Im making a life that is rewarding and nurturing for me with or without my husband.The only way I would be suicidal is if I dont have the wherewithal to make myself happy. The only person I can rely on is ME.

[whichwayisup]

I am so sorry that you're not ready to see what's going on under your nose. We're all here when/if you need us later in the upcoming months.

 

Let his actions show you, not his words..His whole behaviour. Look how he's treated you, hid stuff from you..You've only seen a small portion of his emails to her, and hers to him. It's at most, an emotional affair and probably has physically crossed lines (cuddling, holding hands, kissing, touching etc) maybe not full on sex, f&&King, but just know, that's around the corner..

 

All we can go on is by what you tell us, and most have seen the script..You're not ready to 'hear' what some are saying and that's OK. Time will tell. Anyway, I hope I'm wrong, like everyone else, and maybe, just maybe, he isn't cheating on you and there's absolutely nothing going on between them. BUT - Don't you find it odd you're not included at all? I find it very strange.

[zilgurl]

I am so sorry that you're not ready to see what's going on under your nose. We're all here when/if you need us later in the upcoming months.

 

Let his actions show you, not his words..His whole behaviour. Look how he's treated you, hid stuff from you..You've only seen a small portion of his emails to her, and hers to him. It's at most, an emotional affair and probably has physically crossed lines (cuddling, holding hands, kissing, touching etc) maybe not full on sex, f&&King, but just know, that's around the corner..

 

All we can go on is by what you tell us, and most have seen the script..You're not ready to 'hear' what some are saying and that's OK. Time will tell. Anyway, I hope I'm wrong, like everyone else, and maybe, just maybe, he isn't cheating on you and there's absolutely nothing going on between them. BUT - Don't you find it odd you're not included at all? I find it very strange.

Hi WWU. Look I hear you and I am not being blind here. I do believe he is having an EA most definitely. She and he are having brain sex (at the very minimum). I believed that long before I found this website. I mean why was my gut feeling reacting so much.

 

In later times her H changed his job so that each time my H was there so was her H. Her H is supportive of him. He & she rang him whilst in another part of the country a couple of weeks ago to ask if he was OK. Theres never been any ask if Im OK. Still I dont expect it. No I dont find it strange Im not included. If I was having an EA

I wouldnt want my partner there either.

 

Someone here suggested it might be a threesome. They are quite a liberal couple so who knows. Anyway the OW and her H are leaving the country for several years on Tuesday. They are going a long way away to Bahrain. (We are not in USA we are at the bottom of the world in NZ.)So at least the physical contact wont be available. When I leave he'll have no-one except her via email to help him cry in his soup.

[TaraMaiden]

Ooooh, note that....

"When" I leave....not "If"......

 

So tell me you really are clearing out and leaving on Sunday...! Yay for you!

[zilgurl]

Ooooh, note that....

"When" I leave....not "If"......

 

So tell me you really are clearing out and leaving on Sunday...! Yay for you!

 

No I will be careful and deliberate. Im not going to rush off in anger and end up losing out. I need to take care of myself and make this worthwhile. I was going to ring OW yesterday after my H left to fly up there but someone here said "why do you need to explain yourself to her." Yes I decided I would be giving away my power if I did that. To quote the bible......

"Even a fool, when he keeps silent, is considered wise; When he closes his lips, he is considered prudent." I will bide my time. I wish to preserve my dignity and act in dignity. Acting like a mad woman only creates a negative view to others.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Don't contact the OW. It will be a complete waste of time. She wants to be with your H, and will do and say whatever is necessary to make sure she keeps him. She will not let him go for your sake.

 

If you talk to anyone, it should be her H so that he can do what is needed on his end to force this affair to end.

[zilgurl]

Don't contact the OW. It will be a complete waste of time. She wants to be with your H, and will do and say whatever is necessary to make sure she keeps him. She will not let him go for your sake.

 

If you talk to anyone, it should be her H so that he can do what is needed on his end to force this affair to end.

 

Thanks heaps this has been a very helpful post.

 

I dont think talking to her H would help. In fact it is my H that needs to be talked too and my thoughts are that he either quit the relationship altogether or he is totally open about the emails they share with each other. Or........ one of us moves out. yeh that feels right.... I cannot go on living with the insecurity of it all. I hate being viewed by H as an insecure, suspicious, manipulative controlling person.

 

I had a thought about sending the link to these posts to her after she arrives in Bahrain to see what others think about the relationship between her and my H. Probably only give her all the more reason to view me as a pathetic insecure person. Thoughts...???

[LucreziaBorgia]

Never hand your enemy ammunition. The darker you go in terms of the OW the better.

[jj33]

Absolutely dont send her a link. DOnt send her anything. Why does it matter what she thinks? It doesnt.

 

Your relationship is between you and your H. The fact that he has some sort of relationship with her means he has violated boundaries but it is NO reason for you to bring her into your life further.

 

And what good would it do anyway? She would see you are upset and she would see others think your H has wronged you.

 

And she will care because....

 

Dont do it...

 

When you have to bring in a 3rd party to make a point and show that others agree with you, you are acting from weakness. Act from a position of strength. You are a wonderful person and you will not accept bad treatment. Let your actions speak for you.

 

Then H can cry in his soup as loud as he wants and he wont wake you...