. I'm in last chance saloon. (Will prob be long!)

[Subway]

OK so a bit of background. My wife and I have been together for 12 years, married for 5 next week, and have one 3 year old son. Her first marriage, my second.

 

I guess the start was about 3 months ago when she said to me "How would you feel about us both having some extramarital sex?", which after much thought and discussion, I said no. She said that that is not a problem, it was just an idea (we have had a 3rd party involved in our sex life before, a few years ago) and our marriage is more important to her.

 

The thing is, I can't stop bringing everything back to that. For example, she is going out with her friends on halloween and will be staying out all night (as its quite a long way away), and I'm just so petrified she wants an affair that I open my stupid mouth and we end up having an argument.

 

She says that she feels that she isn't allowed a life outside our marriage, which I think is very unfair. She has been doing a college course (part time) for the last 2 years, and has plenty of time out with her friends. It's just since this sex thing came up, well it's sowed a seed of doubt that wasn't there before, and so now I'm finding myself being suspicious.

 

The turning point is definately when she mentioned the sex thing, yet if I try to say to her that the reason we are having problems now is because that seed of doubt has been sown, her answer is nearly always "Oh so we're back to that again are we?"

 

Well earlier on, I pushed and pushed and she told me to go. Then we spoke on the phone and have agreed to talk when she gets home from work (I finished work early today), but it's still all up in the air. I just don't know what to do. Am I supposed to not tell her if I'm uncomfortable with something in our lives?

 

I feel like I'm on that slippery slope and it's getting harder and harder not to completely drop. She says its because we keep going around in circles, but it hurts so much that she is so willing to just end it, rather than want to work it out, even though it might mean admitting that I'm not solely to blame for our situation. It feels like she'd rather say "Just go".

 

How it happened today is....

 

We had the row last night, and this morning I sent her an email saying it feels like she'd be happier without me in her life. A few hours later she sent me the email conversation she had been having with her mum all morning, and needless to say, she didnt tell her mum everything. Her mum of course lept to her defense. I should realise how lucky I am, blah blah.

Part of this email conversation was my wife saying "Now he thinks I'll be happier if he didnt live at home and I think he's probably right, especially if this carries on". So of course I get straight on the phone and say "Do you want me to go. Yes or No?" to which she replied "I don't know, are we going to end up back here in a couple of weeks?" which riled me a little (answering a question with a question is one of my pet hates) so I stupidly said "I notice that you didn't tell your mum the reason my insecurities have come up", and that is when she said "Oh, just go then". I can still hear it ringing in my ears and it's killing me. Is it too late? Am I too late in trying to save this tattered shred of a marriage that seemed so good a few short months ago?

 

I'm 38 and my wife is 30, I'm so scared right now. I really can't start all over again, and don't want to. Like I said before the whole sex thing came up, everything was running along smoothly.

 

I guess my biggest fear is that she doesnt actually love me anymore but cant, or wont admit it to herself, and so whatever I do, I'm wasting my time, energy and tears.

 

Please, I feel so alone right now. I really want my marriage to work, and my wife says she does too, but my insecurities (brought up by her suggestion) are ruining everything. We've been through an awful lot in 12 years, but never, never has she told me to leave before. I've never felt as vulnerable in our marriage as I do now.

[seibert253]

You two need to sit down, discuss what is and is not going on with your relationship. What you need and expect, and what she needs and expects. Alot can and will be solved with counseling. This is what the two of you need. You may also need IC to deal with the reason why you feel so insecure. Are there any other things, other than her one statement, which would lead you to believe she may pursue something outside of your marriage?

If there isn't, then you may want to explore with her as to why she made this suggestion to you. This would probably be best done in a counseling environment. If things are getting a little dull in the sex environment, and that's what is driving all of this, then spicing things up between you will reignite that flame.

[Subway]

Thanks for the reply. I'm sorry, my initial post was a ramble extraordinaire.

 

We have talked and talked and talked. She has told me tonight that she doesnt trust that we can make it work anymore, but shes willing to try, though she says she cant be emotionally close to me right now because shes angry and hurt. The reason she says she feels like this is because we have (or should I say i have) been going round in circles for about 3 months, and just when she thinks it's resolved something else happens or comes up, as it did last night. She also said she doesnt know if I've pushed her one too many times. (emotionally)

 

She said that this morning, she was confident that we could sit down and work it out, but my ultimatum as she saw it when I asked her if she wanted me to stay or go (or as I saw it at the time, needing to know whether I still had a marriage to come back to) has made her numb, sad and not sure if she wants to open herself to the possibility of it happening again in the future.

 

So its looking a bit ****ty at the moment. I'm sleeping on the sofa (though she said I can still sleep in the bed, but she also said she doesnt want me to comfort her, or hug her, so I'm not sure if I can handle lying 6 inches from her and not be able to put my arm around her, so sofa it is, for now) and I guess it all depends on whether this numb feeling subsides and she isnt scared to let me get close to her again, as she is now.

 

I just have no idea where we go from here. She says she still loves me, which is confusing. How the hell do I act when all I want to do is give her a cuddle, but that we now have a kind of agreement that if and when she is ready for cuddles and hugs and closeness again, she will let me know. Do I go out lots and give her space and time? Do I carry on doing things for her? How long do I give it before I ask her how she's feeling if she doesn't offer it?

 

She said that she doesnt want to get to the point where we can't bear to look at each other, or hate each other, and wonders if its better to go through the pain of a breakup now, or risk getting hurt again? I told her thats exactly how I've been feeling these past few months. She called it 'ripping off the bandaid'.

 

It doesn't help any practicalities of it that in our household are me and my wife, our 3 year old son and my 18 year old from my first marriage. The 3 year old starts school in a couple of weeks, just up the road and neither of us want him disrupted. She asked me if I wanted her and him to go. The answer is an emphatic no. This is their home as well.

 

I already have individual counselling in the pipeline, but unfortunately its a 4 month wait just for an assessment, of which I've probably been waiting 2 months. The doc has put me on happy pills but I don't know if they are making things better or worse.

 

The thought of not being able to cuddle my wife is absolutely breaking me up inside. The thought that she is scared to let me get close emotionally for fear of getting hurt is even worse. I really don't know right now how I'm going to make it through tomorrow.

[torranceshipman]

I think she is being completely unfair - you're her H and she won't let you even cuddle her? I think this situation is hurting you a lot so it is best to maybe tell her you 2 need to a) properly give it another go and go to counseling or whatever, or b) go for a full on separation. This limbo she is keeping you in right now is completely unfair. You need to be a bit tougher with her I think and not let her walk all over you like this...

 

Oh, and it isnt HER bed, its the marital bed.

[giotto]

I can hear it coming... I love you but I'm not in love with you...

[seibert253]

You discussed IC for you, but what about her? Sounds like she has alot of issues that need to be addressed. You need to insist on couples counseling. Sitting back, "giving her space", and ignoring the 500lb gorilla will not make it go away. The problems the two of you are facing will return. You can only supress the demons for so long.

 

I agree with the above poster, if she doesn't address her issues, and you don't address the issues within you marriage NOW, down the road she will stray, and you will get the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" speech.

 

You need to be firm, be a man, and insist on MC for the two of you. If she declines then tell her these issues never will be resolved, and it's better if you two go your seperate ways now.

[Mz. Pixie]

A seed of doubt was planted in your mind- and you were right to feel that way. This is a huge red flag "Can we have other sexual partners?"

 

First of all, you've allowed that to happen before and now you'd like to put that horse back in the corral- a little hard to do- but it's fully within your rights to say you're not comfortable with that.

 

I think she asked your permission because she has someone lined up basically. She was definitely asking your permission to have an affair.

 

Women do not tell the husband to move out unless they have someone else lined up- they just don't.

 

Now, first- calm down. Next- start snooping. Get a keylogger- check her cell phone bill and see if there are more calls or texts from a number you don't know.

 

Do not let her make you feel guilty for not wanting her to have an affair.

 

And, DO NOT move out of your home. She's not happy? She leaves. Not you. Get back in the marital bed.

 

I bet if you snoop you'll find some evidence. All of that don't touch me and cuddle me is because she's wanting to be with someone else.

 

Listen, I had an affair when I was married before and she's throwing red flags all over the place. Google- What is plan A and Plan B and go to the website suggested. Lots of good information there- Dr. Harley is in the business of saving marriages and you can find out more information there.

[Mr. Lucky]

I think she asked your permission because she has someone lined up basically. She was definitely asking your permission to have an affair.

 

Women do not tell the husband to move out unless they have someone else lined up- they just don't.

 

Now, first- calm down. Next- start snooping. Get a keylogger- check her cell phone bill and see if there are more calls or texts from a number you don't know.

 

Do not let her make you feel guilty for not wanting her to have an affair.

 

And, DO NOT move out of your home. She's not happy? She leaves. Not you. Get back in the marital bed.

 

I bet if you snoop you'll find some evidence. All of that don't touch me and cuddle me is because she's wanting to be with someone else.

Have to agree with this assessment. There's an answer here - and probably from your standpoint, not the answer you want to hear - that you haven't yet discovered. Despite your past history, I don't think a spouse says to you "let's sleep with other people" unless they have an individual in mind and have laid the groundwork. You need to do whatever is necessary to protect yourself, your marriage and your family. Especially in this case, knowledge is power...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Subway]

Thanks again for the replies. Before I go onto the days update, I'll fill in a few gaps as it were.

 

1. The other person who we previously involved in our sex lives is a woman. It was her and my wife, I did not take part, just watched with glee (It should be noted that my wife said she felt confident enough to be able to talk to me about the sex with others thing because of this other experience.)

 

2. Her course is a counselling course (just starting year 3 of 4), and as part of the course, from next month she has to receive counselling as a part of it, so she is going into IC too. MC is something I want to do, but although she has said she's willing to try again (I took particular notice that she said she is willing, not she wants. Maybe I'm reading into it too much, I don't know anymore) she also said she "doesn't see the point", which I must admit is a difficult one to get my head around, and is sending my alarm bells ringing. Its something that I will broach again when the time is right, but more on that later.

 

3. Mz Pixie, you hit the nail on the head. The seed of doubt, that wasn't there before. Thats what she says we won't be able to get over, and those feelings wont go away. I actually think they will, I just need time, and IC, and MC. They weren't there before. I want to get over it, but its almost like she doesnt want me to, or isnt willing to give me the time and support to.

 

4. I am ashamed to admit that I have looked at her facebook account and I have looked through the browsing logs on her user ID. I've only found one thing that I would call untoward, and that was just before she asked what she asked. So yes, I think she did have someone in mind,(which she kind of said at the time, in fact she had three 'obvious choices') but I really don't think he knew as later texts that I have seen on her phone strongly suggest otherwise, even though those texts also upset me, but weren't major alarms. I've thought about a keylogger but am really not sure I want to go that far.

 

5. The moving out thing she said is because I've pushed her (in other words, asked her that question a few times over recent weeks, maybe 3), but she didnt really want me to leave, for our son. In the email conversation between her and her mum she sent me she wrote that shes only held out this long (A 3 month bad patch is long after 12 years?!?) because of our son. This is a major, major worry for me. In the past we have both been there for each other, but she only seems to remember when shes been there for me. She doesnt remember all the **** she gave me when our son was a baby. How inadequate I felt because of her constant criticisms, but never once did I tell her not to cuddle me, or that I wasn't sure if it could work anymore. We're talking about a 2 year period here, and she wants to end it after I have some problems (that she helped initiate) for 3 months! Very, very angry right now.

 

Anyway, sorry for rambling. So much going on. Today has been a nightmare, bouncing from utter devastation and not being able to stop crying at work to the point of being referred to Occupational Health and coming home early, to anger that she seems so eager to throw it all away, and seems to have so little respect for my feelings, when a few short months ago I was "the most wonderful, caring, supportive husband in the world for even considering her question". Thats what I'm finding so hard to get my head around. I wonder if she thought I'd say yes, and when it freaked me out like it did she got a bit of a shock, and now resents me for denying her her "sexual freedom". She insists she doesn't.

 

I finished work about 1pm because I just could not carry on having to walk briskly out every 10 minutes because I can feel myself welling up and ready to go. I went round to my sister's and had another cry, went home and my wife asked me if I was quiet at work and I told her "no just took the afternoon off". That was pretty much all we said to each other until at about 4:15pm when I told her I was going out and didnt know what time I'd be back. All civil enough but obviously strained.

 

I got back about half an hour ago, about midnight (UK time). I went out for 2 reasons. Firstly because I could not bear to sit in an uncomfortable silence all night. It's all still very raw and I don't trust myself not to say something stupid in anger and make things worse. And secondly to let her relax a bit and hope that she will appreciate that I went out for US, not either/or, and things might be less strained tomorrow. I hope so because I do not want to feel as though I can't relax in my own home, and I don't want to feel like I want to go out every night. Counterproductive.

 

One small glimmer of hope that I am still in her thoughts at least was that when I got home, the porch light was on (our road is very very dark), which she wouldn't normally do, and was a thoughtful thing to do. Its the kind of thing I have often done for her, and the kind of thing that helps me to believe that maybe she does still love me, ridiculous as that may sound. I'm clinging onto any signal at the moment, but trying not to show it. I will send her a text tomorrow thanking her and hope that will lighten the atmosphere a bit.

The first landmark for me will be if she hugs me, be that tomorrow, the weekend, or in a weeks time. I can wait and be patient even though it's tearing my heart out, but I can't and won't wait forever. I think if nothing improves within a couple of weeks then it will be crunch time.

 

I have a counselling appointment at work (they provide up to 6 sessions free of charge) on Thursday morning, so really that can't come soon enough for me. I think tomorrow might be another hard day, but hopefully not as hard as today, because I haven't sobbed uncontrollably like I have today since my son died in my arms 10 years ago. Not really relevant to this but he would have been 17 tomorrow (or today as its past midnight) the 26th. He died 2 weeks before his 7th birthday. Damn cant get into that right now.

 

I'm really sorry for rambling on and on and on. I'm not expecting replies but do appreciate them. If nothing else this has become quite cathartic over the last couple of days and is a 'safe' place for me to put it all out there.

[Mr. Lucky]

4. I am ashamed to admit that I have looked at her facebook account and I have looked through the browsing logs on her user ID. I've only found one thing that I would call untoward, and that was just before she asked what she asked. So yes, I think she did have someone in mind,(which she kind of said at the time, in fact she had three 'obvious choices') but I really don't think he knew as later texts that I have seen on her phone strongly suggest otherwise, even though those texts also upset me, but weren't major alarms. I've thought about a keylogger but am really not sure I want to go that far.

You're so overwhelmed by doubt and uncertainty that you can't function but you don't want to go as far as installing a keylogger ??? Look at it this way - you can't address a problem that you don't know exists. And unless you out her extra-curricular activities - either proposed or ongoing - you'll be standing on slippery slope. As she told her Mom, she's barely in the marriage now. You can either be a victim or take some action to at least understand what it is you're dealing with. Personally, I wouldn't think twice...

 

Mr. Lucky

[giotto]

I feel for you, but she's clearly having an affair ("How would you feel about us both having some extramarital sex?" - read: I'm having some, so maybe you can have some as well, so I don't feel too guilty about it), but can't bring herself to leave the family. Women don't change like that without a specific reason. She's checked out of the relationship, but her son is keeping her there... investigate!

[Mz. Pixie]

You're so overwhelmed by doubt and uncertainty that you can't function but you don't want to go as far as installing a keylogger ??? Look at it this way - you can't address a problem that you don't know exists. And unless you out her extra-curricular activities - either proposed or ongoing - you'll be standing on slippery slope. As she told her Mom, she's barely in the marriage now. You can either be a victim or take some action to at least understand what it is you're dealing with. Personally, I wouldn't think twice...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I agree. Look, don't mean to be rude but you need to man up and start snooping. Quit being so passive. Women do not want to be with men they cannot respect.

 

If you let her run all over you she will not respect you.

 

Snoop so that you have the truth, then confront her with it but make it clear that you will not be the one leaving the house. She wants to split up? She can go.

 

Don't make the mistake that if you go along with what she wants that she'll see the error of her ways and want to get back with you. Quit trying to avoid her anger. Your marriage can survive her anger- but not her having an affair.

[freestyle]

Withholding affection IS a form of emotional abuse. She`s punishing you

because she didn`t get to have things her way. (like a petulant child).

 

You have every right to be concerned and worried about her suggesting swinging, as well.

 

My own reaction to hearing that from my partner would be:

 

"What, I`m not enough for you?" I would be insulted beyond belief.

[vox]

Okay, I'm definitely going to go against the consensus here. Here's what I see. Your wife felt comfortable opening up and being honest with you about a very real feeling she had and went to you for your permission and perspective on it.

 

Don't we always SAY we want our partners to be open and honest with us? I guess that's only when they say things we want to hear, right?

 

So she lets the matter drop and you OP... you're getting all kinds of paranoid and possessive and jealous (really attractive and fosters intimacy, btw)

 

Basically, your wife ate some pussy and you watched (and enjoyed it) previously, so it isn't like extramarital sex should come at all as a shock to you.

 

Your wife is being punished because she was honest. Honest with you. She trusted in you and your marriage that she could come to you and talk to you about anything on her mind and in her heart.

 

Way to prove that people in relationships don't ever, ever want real honesty. They only want honestly that makes them feel good and that sits well with them.

 

I think you should apologize to your wife and talk out why she was curious about this extramarital sex and why it is she was interested in it.

 

Because, basically, now you've told her that she cannot be honest with you unless it's all roses and kisses. She'll feel that anything real will have to be bottled up, she'll grow to resent you and then she'll either leave or cheat on you.

 

Congratulations!

[vox]

Oh, and all you broken paranoid jealous possessive people telling the OP to snoop and install keyloggers and do god knows what.

 

You people make me sick. You couldn't possibly make relationships look any less appealing if you chased a fart through a bag of nails.

 

Why would anyone get into a relationship with the possibility of being confronted with this... when all she did was be honest?

[giotto]

I don't know if you are man or a woman, vox, but for a man one thing is watching your wife "eating pussy", another is allowing your wife to be shagged by another man, like she obviously wants to. I think the one who needs a reality check is you, unless you are woman...

[vox]

I don't know if you are man or a woman, vox, but for a man one thing is watching your wife "eating pussy", another is allowing your wife to be shagged by another man, like she obviously wants to. I think the one who needs a reality check is you, unless you are woman...

 

I'm a dude. I'm just not possessive, insecure, paranoid, jealous or otherwise functionally compromised.

 

If my chosen person wanted to hump someone else, I would want to know. As long as it was safe, and no one was taken advantage of... why would I care?

 

I'm interested in the happiness and well-being of my partner in the long-term. I don't require anyone to coddle me or make me feel like I'm the only person in the world. I know I'm a great person who is intelligent, attractive and successful. I want an equal, not a groupie.

[giotto]

I'm a dude. I'm just not possessive, insecure, paranoid, jealous or otherwise functionally compromised.

 

If my chosen person wanted to hump someone else, I would want to know. As long as it was safe, and no one was taken advantage of... why would I care?

 

I'm interested in the happiness and well-being of my partner in the long-term. I don't require anyone to coddle me or make me feel like I'm the only person in the world. I know I'm a great person who is intelligent, attractive and successful. I want an equal, not a groupie.

 

ok, dude, I'm happy for you... I can see you don't lack any self-esteem, like we all, obviously, do...

[vox]

ok, dude, I'm happy for you... I can see you don't lack any self-esteem, like we all, obviously, do...

 

I'm not saying I'm perfect but I don't get most of you people and your needy whining. Relationships don't seem to do anything but break people.

[NoIDidn't]

I haven't yet read all the other replies, OP, but it sounds like she met someone or a group at her college and they are putting ideas in to her head that your marriage is limiting her.

 

Her asking that question is a huge red flag.

 

(Hi Ms Pixie!)

[NoIDidn't]

Okay, with the exception of the most recent posts, everything that I would have said has arleady been said.

 

I think you are going to find an OM (other man) in the mix. I'm sorry you are going through this.

 

(vox, I don't think anyone here is whining, just telling the man the honest truth as they see it)

[Mr. Lucky]

If my chosen person wanted to hump someone else, I would want to know. As long as it was safe, and no one was taken advantage of... why would I care?

The OP's concern is that she's going ahead with her plan to "hump someone else" regardless of his feelings about it. And at least to me, that meets my definition of being taken advantage of. Playing together is one thing, acting with disregard for your partner's feelings is another...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mz. Pixie]

I'm a dude. I'm just not possessive, insecure, paranoid, jealous or otherwise functionally compromised.

 

 

Ummmm, okay.

 

Well I've posted tons on this forum about infidelity- because I've been unfaithful before and I want to have the poster have the complete truth about what's going on.

 

She did come out and say she wanted to have sex with someone else- and she was being honest and gave him names of people she was considering. I give her props for being honest about it rather than going behind his back.

 

The issue is that his needs are different and he's obviously one of those people who think a woman being with a woman is not cheating. Heck, my own husband would probably feel the same way. Obviously he has issues with her being with another man- and both partners should have a say so in this matter.

 

(Ps- Hi ND!- Long time no see)

[NoIDidn't]

vox has admitted in another thread about having Aspergers and having difficulty with sex in general - would rather his partner do it with someone else anyway.

 

So it explains what was said in this thread.

[giotto]

vox has admitted in another thread about having Aspergers and having difficulty with sex in general - would rather his partner do it with someone else anyway.

 

So it explains what was said in this thread.

 

read that...