. I'm in last chance saloon. (Will prob be long!)

[Mz. Pixie]

vox has admitted in another thread about having Aspergers and having difficulty with sex in general - would rather his partner do it with someone else anyway.

 

So it explains what was said in this thread.

 

Thanks for the info- that does explain alot.

[Subway]

Thanks for all the replies, and especially Vox, who I think is actually right. Deep down, I think this is my problem and I have been causing damage to my marriage through my paranoia and jealousy. Yes my wife has perhaps even unwittingly fed that fear, but it's me that has to get over it.

 

My wife said to me that as far as she's concerned, the only thing that changed when she asked me, is the fact that she asked me. She had thought about it before, but never mentioned it. She thought she could be honest with me without it all blowing up. Yes I cocked up, but sometimes our emotions get the better of us right?

 

I have been signed off work until wednesday with emotional exhaustion, but the good news is that things are more positive at home. Affection is no longer being withdrawn, there isn't a horrible atmosphere, and we have both decided to draw a line under the whole sorry episode. Thats not to say that everything will just click back to normal. We both know that, but I think over the last day or two, we have both realised how much we were hurting each other, and progress is being made.

 

I have accepted that there are some things in life we can't control. If my wife is going to have a fling, nothing I can say or do will change that, but when she tells me that she has no desire to look in the mirror and see a cheater looking back, I believe her. She is quite an independant woman, and I do believe that if she really wanted to be with someone else that much, she would end our marriage.

 

The going out overnight in October thing, well, to be honest, before she asked what she asked, I wouldnt have given it a second thought. I would have told her I will miss her overnight, but would not even have dreamt that she didnt want me there because of something she was up to. Because I 100% trusted that she wouldnt do that to me, our marriage, to our son, and to herself. I want to get back to that. It's not years of decline we are talking about here. A few months.

 

Thanks so much for all your replies. It's been a real help.

 

And Vox, thanks to you especially.

 

[vox]

Thanks for all the replies, and especially Vox, who I think is actually right. Deep down, I think this is my problem and I have been causing damage to my marriage through my paranoia and jealousy. Yes my wife has perhaps even unwittingly fed that fear, but it's me that has to get over it.

 

My wife said to me that as far as she's concerned, the only thing that changed when she asked me, is the fact that she asked me. She had thought about it before, but never mentioned it. She thought she could be honest with me without it all blowing up. Yes I cocked up, but sometimes our emotions get the better of us right?

 

I have been signed off work until wednesday with emotional exhaustion, but the good news is that things are more positive at home. Affection is no longer being withdrawn, there isn't a horrible atmosphere, and we have both decided to draw a line under the whole sorry episode. Thats not to say that everything will just click back to normal. We both know that, but I think over the last day or two, we have both realised how much we were hurting each other, and progress is being made.

 

I have accepted that there are some things in life we can't control. If my wife is going to have a fling, nothing I can say or do will change that, but when she tells me that she has no desire to look in the mirror and see a cheater looking back, I believe her. She is quite an independant woman, and I do believe that if she really wanted to be with someone else that much, she would end our marriage.

 

The going out overnight in October thing, well, to be honest, before she asked what she asked, I wouldnt have given it a second thought. I would have told her I will miss her overnight, but would not even have dreamt that she didnt want me there because of something she was up to. Because I 100% trusted that she wouldnt do that to me, our marriage, to our son, and to herself. I want to get back to that. It's not years of decline we are talking about here. A few months.

 

Thanks so much for all your replies. It's been a real help.

 

And Vox, thanks to you especially.

 

 

Subway, you're absolutely welcome. I'm glad I could help and keep us posted on how things go, ok?

[Subway]

Just a small update. Things seem to be ticking over nicely. We've spent some time together, and also some time apart, mostly things are getting back to 'normal'.

 

But if I get more passionate than a wet fish she pulls away, and I'd be a liar if I said it didn't bother me. She told me today she is still "wary" though not angry with me anymore. I don't really know what else I can do right now but carry on as I have been the last few days and just be as normal as possible. We are going out tomorrow and have friends coming over tomorrow eve so hopefully it'll be a nice day. At the moment what I crave is some intimacy but I guess I'm just going to have to wait.

[Mr. Lucky]

But if I get more passionate than a wet fish she pulls away, and I'd be a liar if I said it didn't bother me. She told me today she is still "wary" though not angry with me anymore. I don't really know what else I can do right now but carry on as I have been the last few days and just be as normal as possible. We are going out tomorrow and have friends coming over tomorrow eve so hopefully it'll be a nice day. At the moment what I crave is some intimacy but I guess I'm just going to have to wait.

Are you familiar with the term "gaslighting" ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mz. Pixie]

Are you familiar with the term "gaslighting" ???

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Exactly. WOW!

[NoIDidn't]

I agree guys. Sounds like a classic case.

[Subway]

From what I have read about "The Gaslight Effect", no, sorry I don't agree. She is not trying to drive me crazy! Nor has she called me crazy.

 

What I do believe is that over the last few months we have got ourselves into a right mess and maybe I'm expecting too much too soon. Its been 10 or so days since we last had sex and when we had the big blow up. We made up to a degree last Wednesday, and things have been quite relaxed since then. For example before she went to bed tonight she hugged and kissed me. It's a sign that we are making slow, steady progress.

 

From her point of view, her defences have gone up and its going to take time for her to be able to lower them again ("If I can at all" is the usual caveat that comes with this). I can kind of recognise that, it's taken 3 months for my defences to be lowered after they shot up when she asked that question, and there were times I wondered if I would ever fully open myself up to potential hurt again. By the same token though, when my defences shot up, she carried on as normal so she should try harder to understand why I am doing the same now.

 

I do have my limits, but I'm happy to be patient and let her go at her pace for longer than a week - 10 days after 12 years of being together, and believe me, there have been times when she has been there for me for long periods of time (years, not months), so I feel the least I can do is step back a little and try my hardest not to put her under any pressure, for at least a while.

 

She has her first counselling session on Friday. I'm still waiting for mine. She has agreed to MC but I want to do some IC first. IC + MC is just too much at once for me.

[Subway]

So its my weddino anniversary today. The perfect opportunity for us both to make a real effort right? I got up this morning to find my wife asleep on the sofa. This after making a point me giving me a hug when I went to bed last night. I really dont know how long I can carry on like this. Not in a good place right now. Confused. Angry. Frightened.

[giotto]

So its my weddino anniversary today. The perfect opportunity for us both to make a real effort right? I got up this morning to find my wife asleep on the sofa. This after making a point me giving me a hug when I went to bed last night. I really dont know how long I can carry on like this. Not in a good place right now. Confused. Angry. Frightened.

 

you mean she didn't come to bed last night? Maybe she thought you would like to "celebrate" your anniversary with a close encounter? Man, this sucks!

[Subway]

No didnt come to bed as far as I can tell. I would love a close encounter with her. Our sex life has never been like this until two weeks ago. Every day feels like a fresh rejection and im starting to lose fight. I really cannot continue like this indefinately. But I cant say anything to her or shell say I am pressuring her or not allowing her to go at her pace. I really feel totally terrible on a day we should be celebrating our love.

[giotto]

It really does suck... I've been in your shoes and I know how it feels... I was in this position for years until finally (after MC, separation, reconciliation) I packed my bags... and she compromised...

 

I can only say one thing: pressuring her won't work. You need to get to the root of the cause...

 

BTW... isn't she going to her counselling session today? Maybe that was preying on her mind...

[Subway]

Turns out she got up early to give me anniversary present before I left for work but fell back asleep. Glad we didnt have a confrontation over it. Yes her counselling starting this eve. Mine next thurs. I've taken half day leave so an at home now. Still feel pretty bad but trying to hang in there. Just easier said than done sometimes

[giotto]

Turns out she got up early to give me anniversary present before I left for work but fell back asleep. Glad we didnt have a confrontation over it. Yes her counselling starting this eve. Mine next thurs. I've taken half day leave so an at home now. Still feel pretty bad but trying to hang in there. Just easier said than done sometimes

 

really? You mean you didn't notice that she got up early or that she didn't come to bed? You are a heavy sleeper!

[Subway]

I'm not usually a heavy sleeper, but did wonder why she had her slippers on this morning while asleep on the sofa, and her phone was in the bedroom so I can only assume that she came to bed after I was asleep and got up before I woke up.

 

Later when I have the time (her counselling appointment) I'll write what I've just scribbled on a piece of paper. Might make me feel better 2nd time around. At the moment I have a bit of a hobson's choice to make regarding how I approach things.

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm only going to point out that your present approach of walking on eggshells around your relationship hasn't worked particularly well for you...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Subway]

Thats the thing. I havent been treading on eggshells until recently, say the last 2 weeks. Most people can only take getting pushed away / rejected so many times right? Especially by someone who professes to love you.

 

We've done talking, we've done fighting, now I just don't know anymore. On a selfish side it's like I'm giving more and more and getting less and less in return, so my instinct is to stop giving so much. Maybe because she is witholding something that is important to me, I'm starting to withold or not get as 'into' other stuff, and I really don't like where that can go.

[Subway]

Ok, here is what I wrote, or rather, scribbled earlier today. The idea was just to try and straighten my thoughts out. Not sure it did any good to be honest.

 

OK I feel sad. Why do I feel sad? I miss the intimacy, closeness and physical contact, but cant say because that might be pressure which wont help anyone. I'm craving it though. It may have only been 2 weeks, not long in the big scheme of things, but too damn long for me. Sex might only be 2% of a marriage, but without it the other 98% doesnt feel right.

 

Cant hug too hard, cant kiss too passionately, have to be conscious and keep making sure my hands dont wander. If I'm starting to disengage then how the **** are things ever going to get better.

 

If I choose A and stay engaged then I will keep feeling hurt and rejected. Not sure how long that can continue.

If I choose B and carry on disengaging then what kind of life is that?

If I go C and talk, she'll get angry and back to square 1

 

I'm trying to look forward but **** me its hard when it feels like I'm standing still. So what can I do? Surely theres a D? Just need to find it.

I cant keep doing the friends who hug and kiss goodnight which is how it feels right now. Im really trying but its draining me. Its getting to the point where even looking at her hurts because I want her, I want the intimacy, I want the skin on skin. How else am I going to feel when thats the last thing she wants? She said she cant go more than 2 weeks or so, but theres no interest there at all, and its been 2 weeks. Its not just the physical act either. Can get a release from a ****.

 

Just dont know what to do or where to go from here. Theres nothing I can do to help things. i'm already doing everything I can, or trying to, but I have to protect myself, but by doing that it makes things worse doesnt it? Talk about between the devil and the deep blue sea.

 

Maybe tomorrow will be better, but the longer this drags on, the more drained Im feeling and I either have the choice of carrying on and feeling like turd, disengaging which would not be good, or risk saying something and it all blowing up in my face again. Great choice!

 

But cant put a timeframe on it. She is so important to me, but how long can I put up with a situation that is making me unhappy? Wheres the line? Am I going to wake up one day, tell myself "no more" and that will be that? Am I going to end up in a loveless marriage? Can things ever get back to 'normal'. I think so. Shame I feel alone in that. In fact I feel pretty alone full stop right in this moment.

 

So fat lot of use thats been. No nearer to a solution than when i started. One thing I have decided is that IF she asks whats wrong, I'll tell her I'm sad but no more. Dont want to take any backwards steps.

 

Biggest problem right now is whenever we hug or kiss, I want to go further, so I stop getting 'into it' and it isnt a proper hug or kiss at all. If I get into it i feel rejected and its a horrible feeling and ive had enough of feeling it so.....

 

Oh bugger this is getting me nowhere......

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry its a rant, I typed it word for word as I scribbled it earlier.

[mem11363]

Vox,

I think you made a collection of great points. My wife and I have not cheated on each other - married 20 years - BUT - if she came to me and made this request I would not freak - would not keep briniging it up to make her feel bad. I would just ask her, what is it that I can do to fullfill your needs? I want to make you happy, and I am willing to go the extra mile, I just need you to tell me what you want as I am not crazy about the idea of swinging.

 

 

Oh, and all you broken paranoid jealous possessive people telling the OP to snoop and install keyloggers and do god knows what.

 

You people make me sick. You couldn't possibly make relationships look any less appealing if you chased a fart through a bag of nails.

 

Why would anyone get into a relationship with the possibility of being confronted with this... when all she did was be honest?

[LucreziaBorgia]

Things will make a whole lot more sense when you find out who she is having an affair with. I'm telling you man, I was a damn near professional cheater and that line she pulled on you is a classic. When someone suggests extramarital sex and then follows up with behavior like your wife's they are either in the process of beginning an affair, or are already in one.

 

Open your eyes, man. I'm not sure how much more clear it can be.

 

You will want to burst into flames and die a thousand deaths when you find out for sure that she is having an affair - but mark my words: in a way you will feel deeply relieved to know that there is a valid reason behind her behavior.

[Subway]

So I chose option C and it all went horribly wrong. Pretty bad night last night, made worse by the fact that it was our anniversary. What made it worse is she was 'up for it' last night but gave me no signals so I was wondering whats going on and went a bit 'distant' which put her off. Talk about making the wrong choices!!

 

I tried to tell her in a non accusatory way that 2 weeks without is a long time for me (us actually, there have been 2 week barren periods before, but under better circumstances), and that essentially, I'm gagging for it, and its getting me frustrated. She unfortunately started getting hurtful and belittled my feelings / needs / wants so I bit back and we had a heated discussion that bordered on a full blown row. She ended up sleeping on the sofa, after we made a kind of shaky peace.

 

This morning I held out an olive branch and she took it. She says her defences have now gone up again after last night, and she's starting over trying to bring them down. We have been quite cuddly this morning, and we even talked about the possibility of sex tonight, without it getting heated. Basically she said "don't expect anything because I'm not sure how I'll feel about it tonight, but you never know". I told her I didn't expect, but hoped and wanted. We have made plans for tonight, and she has gone out for the afternoon (which I was invited to but I think a few hours apart will do us both good).

 

I will try to woo her tonight in the knowledge that there is a possibility but by no means a certainty. If it's a no go tonight, then tomorrow evening I'll ask her how she feels about an early night, but almost treat it as a "Whats for dinner?" comment if that makes sense. Basically, try not to take it personally if she says she's not hungry. The thing is that once we are being intimate regularly again, I'll relax a lot more, and we may actually move forward alot quicker and be able to have our old lives back.

 

 

The whole affair thing. I'm sorry but at the moment you are wrong. She has simply not had the opportunity to actually meet anyone, and I have been snooping a little and coming up with zero evidence. I do think that she was tempted back in March - May but talked to me about it, and being insecure, I freaked out.

 

It's really not about her wondering about the possibility of consensual extramarital sex anymore. Not for me and certainly not for her. Right now it is all about trying to reconnect with each other on all the many levels we had that connection before. I'm impatient. I can't help it. She is asking me for more patience and understanding and I have to try and give it to her because the alternative is giving up and for me thats not an option at present. I don't give up easily, even though it feels like the easier option at times.

 

Part of it is that I am suffering from depression at the moment. Although I have happy pills, I still have good days and bad days. Yesterday was a bad day. I also have to learn the lesson of yesterday which is to recognise it's just a bad day, accept it, and know it will pass, and try not to stress it too much.

[giotto]

Although I have happy pills, I still have good days and bad days.

 

 

well that should kill your libido... I resorted to those in my bleakest times... not only I felt much better, but there were no feelings down there... perfect combination when waiting for your wife's defences to come down... gosh, really horrible memories...

[Subway]

well that should kill your libido... I resorted to those in my bleakest times... not only I felt much better, but there were no feelings down there... perfect combination when waiting for your wife's defences to come down... gosh, really horrible memories...

 

lol thank you. Raised a smile.

 

I've not found a great deal of difference in my libido because of the pills. But then I'd have sex every day if I could, so after 2 weeks I'm almost foaming at the mouth haha.

[Mr. Lucky]

Basically she said "don't expect anything because I'm not sure how I'll feel about it tonight, but you never know". I told her I didn't expect, but hoped and wanted.

Where does she acknowledge that you have an interest also? That she may have her defenses up but so do you? That you might also have wants and needs (albeit different from hers)?

 

Seems like an awful lot of one sided blame here. You were just as put off by her request as she was by your response. You didn't get to sleeping on the couch by yourself...

 

Mr. Lucky

[mem11363]

Subway: How often do you reject her advances? How often does she reject yours? If you almost never reject hers, and she frequently rejects yours then why out of common deceny didn't she just tell you straight out that she was happy to connect on your anniversary?

 

Why is it that you always have to risk being rejected which makes you feel hurt and angry and harms your marriage? Would it not have simply been kind of her to say at some point during the day, "I am looking forward to us being "together" tonight"

 

I could not live with someone who couldn't understand that after hell - after one week - not two weeks - I am really hungry for sex.

 

I think it is fair to ask her to teach you how to get her in the mood in a nice, slow loving way. This whole concept of "unless she is in the mood to start - she is not willing to have sex". That is going to screw your head up for the rest of your life.

 

 

 

 

 

lol thank you. Raised a smile.

 

I've not found a great deal of difference in my libido because of the pills. But then I'd have sex every day if I could, so after 2 weeks I'm almost foaming at the mouth haha.