. I'm in last chance saloon. (Will prob be long!)

[Subway]

I have just sent her a letter which says among many other things that I an concerned she may be trying to end it less painfully but there is no way of doing that so if that is the case, Stop trying. Hopefully the letter will spark further discussion. I even said that in the short term I an willing to scratch her itch without expecting her to scratch mine. I made it clear that im not sure how long I could do that for but for now an willing to try.

[giotto]

a letter is a good solution, since you don't get too involved emotionally as in a conversation. Also, you can be more focused, without distractions. I wrote a letter to my wife when I decided that it was time to go... it pains me to think about that, but it had to be done... hopefully, you'll be able to table a constructive discussion...

[NoIDidn't]

Of course she would say that... seems to me that she wants out and she is trying to find the least painful way for you, by withdrawing from the marriage gradually and dropping hints... I get the impression that she is having an EA...

 

 

I agree. I think Subway is making the classic mistake of assuming she would tell him if there was someone else.

 

Everything he writes screams affair of some sort.

 

But if he's not ready to even consider that a possibility, he's just not ready and the longer it has the chance to go on.

 

If this continues for much longer, eventually she'll be "wanting to separate for a while to 'find herself'". This is textbook affair speak going on here.

 

Sorry, Subway. But I think its time for a keylogger and to take a look at her cellphone bills if they're itemized. I truly believe you will find something damning.

 

Check out womansinfidelity.com. They have a book that describes women's infidelity to a "T".

[Subway]

So, tonight we had another frank discussion for about 2 hours, then played rock band for a couple of hours.

 

The situation for the last few days has basically her deciding whether she wants to try one last time, and on what terms. It's then up to me to decide if I can accept that.

 

First of all, she said she knows she can be my friend (eeeuuurrggghh!!!!), and knows she can live with me. In her words "it's the romantic part that has broken." I asked her if there was anyone else involved, either physically or emotionally. She looked me in the eye and said no. After 12 good years I have to believe she is telling me the truth or what is point of me going on?

So she said she wants to try a last time. She also told me that she wanted to be sure she was trying again for the right reasons which is why its taken a few days.

 

The nitty gritty is to go for 2-3 weeks where the only physical contact I can initiate is a hug, outside of bed. In situations like out for walks or sitting watching a DVD together (which she still wants to do) she wants me to let her come to me if she wants to hold hands or snuggle up or something. To be honest I think thats fair enough. After 2-3 weeks we look at it again, hopefully in the same manner as we have done the last couple of days.

 

I've been doing alot of new things to me over the last week or so. I've done a fair bit of reading over the last few months and I've started doing things like "owning my own feelings", and thinking more in terms of "I feel hurt when x y or z happens" than "You hurt me!" Its actually quite liberating, but hard work. I've cried so much over the last 4 months and its partly because I can see my contribution to where we are now. It's helped because I've started being able to feel intensely hurt without feeling overwhelming anger or despair, which has kept our recent discussions stay constructive, open, and honest. Much more positive than the bitching, sniping, blaming that has gone before. And if it's going to stand any chance of working. I have to start as I mean to go on. Thats why I'm giving myself a few days to mull it over, talk to people about it, and I have another counselling session on Monday.

 

Although worryingly for me, when I said "I should have an answer for you by Tuesday. I don't want to keep you waiting" to which she replied "I don't feel like i'm waiting". That cuts deep but theres nothing I can do to change it. If thats how she feels all I can do is work out if I can accept it short term and see how things look like going. The difficulty is, say after 3 weeks she says that she feels absolutely no different. 3 months? 6 months? Can I handle that rejection over and over? I don't know. She truely has been the love of my life. My other 2 long term relationships lasted 7 years and 2 years. After 12 years I love her so deeply, I just have such a hard time trying to imagine my life without her next to me. There are times when I get really, genuinely scared of not being able to cope if we end up apart. Her and our family are so important to me Im scared I'll push myself too far and end up just becoming an emotional wreck. I already feel like an emotional wreck. I'm having a good cry on average 3 times a day for the last 3 days. I just feel like I'm losing almost everything that means the most to me, the exception being my son from 1st marriage. How the hell can I ever get over this if it goes the wrong way?

 

I find myself telling myself "hour by hour, day by day" an awful lot at the moment.

[Mr. Lucky]

If this continues for much longer' date=' eventually she'll be "wanting to separate for a while to 'find herself'". This is textbook affair speak going on here.[/quote']

You forgot the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" conversation that comes right before that ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[giotto]

well, you'll have to wait and see how it goes... to me, it looks like she is letting you down gently, diluting the break up so you don't hurt too much. You are right, in 3 weeks time she'll say she doesn't know yet and she'll ask for more time. Give her more time, but I think 6 months should be the maximum... she'll probably leave you before that, anyway. Sorry to be blunt, but these things rarely get fixed, unless she is prepared to give it a real go...

[Subway]

What I don't understand is how a so called strong comittment and feeling of love can just go, almost overnight, after 12 years. My thinking is to try and stick it out, I don't feel I've got a great many options to be honest. What I hope is that this is a test of my commitment. What I'm worried of is being used as a live in babysitter / handyman while she lives it up (in other words the practical support I have been giving her for 12 years would still be there, whether I like it or not. If we split I want the reality of single parenthood and being alone to hit her. At the moment she knows that I'm available emotionally, but I cant be trying to hold my family together while she is just looking after number 1 and 'getting on with her life'. I hope it isnt that at all but thats a concern.

I told her that if we split, we cant live together, but I cant find a solution to that. i have nowhere to go and cant afford it anyway. Our son has just started preschool and deserves to stay in that preschool rather than be shunted off somewhere else, and pain though it is, it is her home too.

What I hope is it doesnt become a battle of who can stick it (living together but not being together, it doesnt seem to bother her even slightly, yet its tearing me apart)out the longest.

 

I just really dont know . Its really very difficult to stay positive.

 

She has said directly to me that she isnt trying to let me down gently, she isnt trying to 'wean' me off her. In her words "I don't know if I can get that romantic feeling back unless I try, so I want to try."

 

What I need to know from her is who she is trying for. If its me or our son then I dont see the point.

 

I also need to know how big a risk it is that I'll end up getting hurt over and over again. at the moment it feels like 99-1 and I'm hanging onto that 1.

 

Like I said she's going out today and tonight (first non-together babysitting duties for me and it feels odd), but said she would like to do something tomorrow. What we normally do is go for a walk, or go to the park if the weather is nice enough. I do see signs there, but am I misreading them? Again, is she doing that for our son to try and keep some kind of normality? Or is it because she wants to spend some time with me?

 

Even something as silly as playing Rock Band together, really quite upsets me when I think of that ending.

[giotto]

well, she has said she will try, so you'll have to sit on the fence and see what happens. You need to give her the opportunity to do so. What other option have you got? Won't be easy for you, but it's a stage you have to go through. Hopefully, there will be a happy ending...

[Subway]

Thanks. I know this is true. I cannot leave my family. I just can't, so what choice do I have other than to go for it.

 

Day by day

[mem11363]

Subway,

Really sorry for you, this is about as painful a situation as anyone ever gets in. Do you run? As painful as this is, a long hard daily run might take a bit off the edge of your anxiety.

 

I don't know if you can do this. Maybe you can't. Can you remember back to the very, very beginning? When you met her? When being with her just made you happy and playful. Maybe it is impossible to put yourself into that mindset. Would be great if you can though. A upbeat playful man is a hard thing to resist.

 

You have every right to feel frightened and angry. But fear and anger are not going to draw her to you, courage and a devil-may-care playfulness might.

 

 

 

 

well, she has said she will try, so you'll have to sit on the fence and see what happens. You need to give her the opportunity to do so. What other option have you got? Won't be easy for you, but it's a stage you have to go through. Hopefully, there will be a happy ending...

[giotto]

I agree. Being grumpy and depressed won't help. You need to make yourself attractive again... hard to do, but sometimes you can "condition" yourself into a more positive frame of mind...

[Subway]

Thank you.

 

I know its true, again. I know I have to be a person she wants to love again. I'm trying very hard to be positive, especially when I'm with her. I try to get quiet times to myself when I can let off a bit of steam. I don't want to go over the top, so for now I'm just trying to act the same way I did before she asked 'the question'. There are little signs from her that this can still be saved, so that is what is keeping me going and I'm trying to draw strength from it. My gut tells me that if I can be patient, understanding, not put any pressure on, she may just properly re-engage over time.

 

I feel like this is a test of my commitment to her and to our family. I intend to pass that test.

[Mr. Lucky]

I feel like this is a test of my commitment to her and to our family. I intend to pass that test.

There's a difference between a test and the series of leveraged manipulations you're being subjected to. One person laying a set of arbitrary gound rules does not a relationship make or repair.

 

While you're living in the emotional doghouse, what exactly is your wife doing to make your marriage better? I must be missing something here...

 

Mr. Lucky

[giotto]

While you're living in the emotional doghouse, what exactly is your wife doing to make your marriage better? I must be missing something here...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

she is thinking about it... sorry, I don't really mean to be flippant...

[mem11363]

Best - Focus on you and the kids do not under any circumstances ask her - "have you decided yet". Don't ask her "how are you feeling about me/about our marriage"?

 

I think women are "programmed" to test their mates for "fitness" periodically. So they do stuff and see how we react. I KNOW my lovely wife does this. I have just learned the appropriate responses over time and many painful error.

 

So your wife might try to steer the conversation in such a way so that she can get you to ask the questions above. DON'T cave, it will look weak. Just smile and banter with her. Don't seem annoyed/angry or depressed if she does that. At most - if she pushes in this direction persistently you can say something along the lines of "I hope you are ok". Make it about "her". If she asks if "you" are ok, the best possible response is to look surprised and just say "sure". The LESS obsessed/worred you seem about this the more appealing you become to her.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

I know its true, again. I know I have to be a person she wants to love again. I'm trying very hard to be positive, especially when I'm with her. I try to get quiet times to myself when I can let off a bit of steam. I don't want to go over the top, so for now I'm just trying to act the same way I did before she asked 'the question'. There are little signs from her that this can still be saved, so that is what is keeping me going and I'm trying to draw strength from it. My gut tells me that if I can be patient, understanding, not put any pressure on, she may just properly re-engage over time.

 

I feel like this is a test of my commitment to her and to our family. I intend to pass that test.

[Subway]

Thanks some good advice there. The last couple of days seem to have good quite well. This morning she kissed me. We went for a walk this afternoon and she linked arms with me. These are the little signs to me that she is trying to rebuild. we are going to play some snake this evening. The next physical step will be if and when she hugs me in bed.

[Subway]

Quite difficult this morning. After a really nice day yesterday I was practically begging in my head for her to put an arm around me in bed. However I said nothing and tried to remind myself to stay strong. Its horrible in bed right now when every fibre in my being wants to hold her and for her to fall asleep in my arms Like she would a few short weeks ago. Now there is a barrier almost like shes trying to prove to me or herself that she would be absolutely fine without me. The thought I keep trying to come back to is that her feelings changed a matter of days ago. I have to believe they can change back.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Your dilemma reminds me of 'Joseph's Letter' - a popular and heartfelt look at one man's nightmare trying to sort things with his wife.

 

He likened his situation to trying to put together a 1000 piece puzzle, when she only gives him 400 pieces to work with, and won't let him see the box or even answer enough questions to know if he is putting it together right.

 

I hope you'll find those missing pieces. I guarantee you that there are some you haven't even dared to consider and once you find them they tend to fall into place one by one.

 

It tears me up to see how earnest you are about this, how caring and genuine you are, when she is sitting on the mother of all information that will make this all make sense - and refusing to share even the least little bit with you.

[Subway]

Thank you. I feel as though she is trying to give me all the pieces but doesnt actually have them herself. Yes the last few months have been hard but its cutting me up that she is basing our marriage and its future on one day our anniversay when I was quite naturally I think not in much of a mood to celebrate. Now ten days later things have improved but only very slightly. I guess whats on my mind is when does this stop being about her trying to get it back and start being emotional abuse? Some may think this has already happened but I think its too early to tell. Given that we have only started our current plan of action two days ago. How long should I leave it if there is zero improvement from where we are now? I should add that the thing that gets me angry at the moment is that she is more than happy to receive my practical support. Looking after our child while she does all her college stuff. Taking him to and from school. Stuff that I would not be doing so regularly if we were apart.

[LucreziaBorgia]

I don't like to put it this way, but there are plenty of women who are not above using their husbands as a 'dad' who pays all the bills and provides a place to live, with all of the same expectations that they would have of 'dad' - that he would do it selflessly without complaint or expectations because that is what 'dads' do. Her argument would be 'if you love me, you will accept things the way they are' - not understanding that she has forced you into a 'father' role and is arguing that you should treat her like a caring father. She is not interested in you as a husband - a fully sexually realized and emotionally reciprocal relationship.

 

She will continue on this path for as long as you tolerate it. She will not change for altruistic reasons. She will not see the light. She will not change for your benefit. Why? Because she doesn't have to. There are no consequences if she doesn't. You are trying to get her to change out of the (apparent) goodness of her heart. You are wanting her to want to be a wife. She simply doesn't want that. You can't wait her out, and hope things will change. They will only change when you make them change, and wooing her and being patient will not work. She simply doesn't want to see you in that way. I stand firm on my belief that someone else has taken that role. I know you don't want to accept that, but you absolutely must consider it - no problem can be solved if you only see the parts that you want to see, and refuse to consider that there may be other explanations.

 

At this point, your only hope for reconciliation as husband/wife instead of caretaker/user is to present her with real consequences if she does not start pulling her weight in fixing the marriage. She needs to know that you are her husband, not her 'dad' or her 'caretaker' and that she either works on being a wife, or you will divorce her and put her out. That is not emotional abuse. That is standing up for your rights as a husband.

 

I think at this point though that you are so afraid of losing her that you won't be able to do what it takes to throw that fear and shock into her. Until she is faced with real consequences, she knows she doesn't have to do anything different, and you will live the rest of your life playing 'dad' and 'walking wallet' to a woman who is more than happy to use you in that way while giving nothing in return.

[Subway]

Thanks again. I have said before that I have asked her if there is someone else and the answer was an emphatic no. Besides this, she really has not had the opportunity, especially over the last few months to conduct an affair. I believe her when she tells me that if she wanted to be with someone else, she would have the decency to end our marriage first. It has been in my mind as a distinctive possibility, because that's what's contributed to these problems we are in now in the first place.

 

What I find so hard to accept is how it has all gone so bad so quickly. I wish I could go back to May and do things differently. I wish I could go back to Sept 1st and do things differently. Every night is hurting me at the moment, but we agreed to give it 2-3 weeks with only hugs (outside of bed, for reasons that I understand, if not like) and pecks and then talk again and see if anything has changed. I certainly will not go on and on and on indefinately. I have needs too, and right now they are not even being close to being fulfilled. Thing is, splitting up won't fulfill them either. I don't want 'another fish'. I want the woman I married, the woman I pledged to live the rest of my life with, through thick and thin, and not bail at the first sign of trouble. I want my life back, and if I cant have it, I cant see a future for me. I know that sounds utterly pathetic, and weak, which is why I put it here rather than tell her.

 

Going from being 'intimate' about 3 times a week, to once in a month (when she said she felt 'empty' afterwards) almost overnight is very difficult!!! Its like she's completely turned the tap off. She no longer says "Thank you darling" when i make her a cuppa, when she did a couple of weeks ago. Can one row / one day really make that much difference? If it does, has she ever really loved me?

 

God I feel so lonely at the moment. Yet I'm supposed to act like it doesnt bother me. Its a ridiculous situation and every day is a marathon struggle at the moment. I'm in despair half the time and pretending I'm all fine and dandy the other half. I dread going to bed because I know I'm going to be lying there wishing she'd connect with me (not sexually, though that would be nice too ) and then feeling like absolute cronk when she gets into bed, positions herself as far away from me as possible, turns away from me and puts her head under the covers (which she never used to do). Can I stick it for 2-3 weeks? Today it feels like no. Tomorrow I might feel like yes, 21 days isnt that long compared to the rest of our lives.

 

To be honest, at the moment I feel like jumping off the nearest bridge just to make the pain go away. Its something I would never actually do (my father committed suicide when I was 14 so I know first hand the damage it casues) but my word it's been tempting. I can see no other way out of this constant misery at the moment. I just know that today has been a bad day and chances are tomorrow I will be feeling positive again. Thats all that keeps me going, and the thought that this CAN be good again. It might not be but I have to give it every chance I can.

 

I have my 2nd counselling session this evening. Not looking forward to it to be honest, but i know its worthwhile.

 

Sorry for another rant. It's cathartic for me even if no-one reads it.

[giotto]

we are reading it... but, personally, I have nothing else to add at the moment. You need to wait these 3 weeks and take it from there, unfortunately, despite the pain... concentrate on yourself and don't appear needy...

[seibert253]

we are reading it... but, personally, I have nothing else to add at the moment. You need to wait these 3 weeks and take it from there, unfortunately, despite the pain... concentrate on yourself and don't appear needy...

 

This is exactly right. Loving her back to her old self WILL NOT WORK. A good dose of reality is the only thing that will. Though it may not. She may have already made up her mind, but wants to let you down easily.

 

IMO you need to appear your ready to move on, without her. Don't be at her beckon call, as a matter of fact I wouldn't go out of my way to do anything for her. Your last hope may be her getting a dose of what life will be without you.

 

Don't tell her what you doing, or where your going, just go. Leave go for a drive/walk, join a gym to work off your stress, just get out of the house and away from her. If she ask's where your going, or where you've been just say, "I'm going out I'll be home later", or "I was out doing something", and leave it at that. Don't give her details.

 

If your out, at work, what ever, if she calls/texts you, don't answer her right away. As a matter of fact you may wish not to answer her at all. If she presses you later, tell her you were busy, and leave it at that.

 

She wants to be on her own, fine. She needs to get a glimpse of life without you. This may be the 2X4 of reality she needs to bring her back.

[Mr. Lucky]

Every night is hurting me at the moment, but we agreed to give it 2-3 weeks with only hugs (outside of bed, for reasons that I understand, if not like) and pecks and then talk again and see if anything has changed.

Really? This is the plan that both of you came up with? Because reading your posts, this sounds more like the conditions that she told you would be in place. Again I ask you, what is she doing to address the problems that she feels exist in your marriage?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Subway]

Mr lucky. Thanks for your input. I dont like it and told her so but I did agree to it temporarily. Doesnt make it any easier for me but there it is. What she is doing is working on her stuff and hopefully trying to break down there walls that have built up. She is not being utterly cold to me. Its just that bedtime is particularly hard for me at the moment because that is when the barrier shoots up. We will see what this evening and tomorrow bring :-)