How the BS often feels. Just try to imagine this.

[whichwayisup]

But we have the passion that I believe his marriage is missing.

 

You fill in a need which he isn't getting at home..But, it's not enough for him to leave and give up everything else that he has in his marriage and in his life. He is Ok with things as they are...He's a cake eater..Not malciously, but selfishly..

 

We entered into our A months after they had their son and I'm sure that played a major role in why he wandered in the first place, it was no longer about the 2 of them and their lives had changed. I believe he loves us both but in different ways.

 

And, how long can you survive as the OW? When the chips are down, he will always go home.. If he is sick and ends up in the hospital, his wife is going to be the one he calls, the one who sits by his bedside..

 

When will you want more? Your own life with him, to have kids with him.. You're putting yourself as second fiddle by staying with him.. Sure you love him and want him in your life, and maybe he is involved in alot of aspects in your life..But how much are you in his? You don't know his friends, his family, co-workers, extended family, neighbours.. He relies on his wife for much more than just passion..

[NoIDidn't]

But I think most women compete with each other - whether it be academically, physically, mentally, etc. I think that society likes to think men are the ones who compete with each other, but I firmly believe women are much worse at this than men.

 

 

I absolutely agree on the competition between women. Women compete relationally, its been observed in research settings. Even little girls compete over status in Relationships.

 

I think we (women) do ourselves a disservice when we deny our competitive natures in this way. We could just use our competitiveness to better each other rather than take from each other.

[SoAddicted]

You fill in a need which he isn't getting at home..But, it's not enough for him to leave and give up everything else that he has in his marriage and in his life. He is Ok with things as they are...He's a cake eater..Not malciously, but selfishly..

 

 

 

And, how long can you survive as the OW? When the chips are down, he will always go home.. If he is sick and ends up in the hospital, his wife is going to be the one he calls, the one who sits by his bedside..

 

When will you want more? Your own life with him, to have kids with him.. You're putting yourself as second fiddle by staying with him.. Sure you love him and want him in your life, and maybe he is involved in alot of aspects in your life..But how much are you in his? You don't know his friends, his family, co-workers, extended family, neighbours.. He relies on his wife for much more than just passion..

 

You won't get any arguments from me there. I know that his wife/son are his priorities, that she is more to him than just passion. I am his fantasy life and when he is done with it he returns home to real life with her. With me there is no arguments over bills or chores. Its just easy flowing conversation and good times. He has never once bashed or talked ill about his wife, in all honesty that would bother me if he did.

 

In time I'm sure I will get sick of it. I will need and expect more. But for now I am fine with what we have.

[SoAddicted]

Has anyone welcomed you yet? Welcome to LS.

 

Thanks

[whichwayisup]

You won't get any arguments from me there. I know that his wife/son are his priorities, that she is more to him than just passion. I am his fantasy life and when he is done with it he returns home to real life with her. With me there is no arguments over bills or chores. Its just easy flowing conversation and good times. He has never once bashed or talked ill about his wife, in all honesty that would bother me if he did.

 

In time I'm sure I will get sick of it. I will need and expect more. But for now I am fine with what we have.

 

You're settling..And most of all, the more time you 'waste' with this MM, the chances are much greater that you're going to miss the boat with some other wonderful (single) guy..You won't even NOTICE anyone else as long as you're with the MM.

 

If you want your own life with a man, to start a family, create memories and grow together, please think about ending it BEFORE you get into deeper, want more from him.. Right now things may be good, but once the dynamtic changes, you will hurt so much..

 

How old are you, do you mind me asking?

[NoIDidn't]

You're settling..And most of all, the more time you 'waste' with this MM, the chances are much greater that you're going to miss the boat with some other wonderful (single) guy..You won't even NOTICE anyone else as long as you're with the MM.

 

If you want your own life with a man, to start a family, create memories and grow together, please think about ending it BEFORE you get into deeper, want more from him.. Right now things may be good, but once the dynamtic changes, you will hurt so much..

 

How old are you, do you mind me asking?

 

You know, I don't see it as a waste. Maybe its a needed learning experience. Most of us have experiences similar to get us to where we really need to be maturity-wise sometimes.

 

Eventually a woman in this position (OW to a MM or someone's BF/SO) will look into her future with this kind of guy and see him for what he is: a baby himself. And unless she actually wants a relationship with a baby, she'll (my fictional "woman") end it soon enough.

[SoAddicted]

You're settling..And most of all, the more time you 'waste' with this MM, the chances are much greater that you're going to miss the boat with some other wonderful (single) guy..You won't even NOTICE anyone else as long as you're with the MM.

 

If you want your own life with a man, to start a family, create memories and grow together, please think about ending it BEFORE you get into deeper, want more from him.. Right now things may be good, but once the dynamtic changes, you will hurt so much..

 

How old are you, do you mind me asking?

 

I am 31. I have had the family life, I was in a LTR at a young age and have children. MM and I got involved at a time that I wasn't looking for anything more. I know I am settling but right now it works for me. I am finishing up my degree and focusing my energy and freetime on my children.

 

I know I need to end it, and I see that time fast approaching but right now I am not ready to walk away.

[ForumFool]

I think anyone who is betrayed ...hurts. I think a BS hurts and is shocked when they find out their spouse cheats..I think OW/OM hurt when they find out their AP has another AP or really lied to them about their spouse and may be say a sex addict ...I have seen all these scenes play out on this site....OW being cheated on and hurt....BS ...hurt.....OW finding out their MM of X years has been using sex tips taught by the OW on the spouse....I find its all pain and hurts,.thats why I don't feel I am part of this us against them thing in here..I just hate to see people hurt and it doesnt matter what "side" they are on..if I feel I can be of help I post....I wish all could do the same....I think the site would be more helpful for ALL

[MistyK]

Misty, I so get your pain because you are describing my scenario as a BS, and I have only empathy for his OW. I know he, in his unhappiness and confusion, lied to her to. I understand, I truly do.

 

The scenario I'm asking other women and men to envision, is your lover having another lover while professing love to you.

 

So many OP have all sorts of tales of unhappy marriages that may, or may not be true. I know my husband portrayed himself as unhappily married and I have no doubt, that was his perception of us at the time. Did he lie? Well....no, not on what he felt was true at the time -- for him!

 

I often grow weary of all the interboard self-righteous bashing of each other's stance. I've probably been guilty of it myself as I tried to heal.

 

I thought if people could remove their particular MM's or MW's spouse from their own personal reasons for the affair, or as a BS, the OW and OM, and just imagined the scenario above, we'd all have greater understanding of the pain a triangle can cause all.

 

I get it. But some people do not and never will, I guess.

 

It's awfully hard to remove the spouse from the equation in an OW's mind though. Generally she is chosen over the OW whenever there is a choice to be made and it's hard to forget when you have a constant reminder of how much more important someone else is over you.

 

The betrayal an OW would feel at their MM romancing his W is different than what we would feel if MM had another OW. We already know MM is "cheating" on us with his W but to bring another OW into the equation would change our perception from a MM who is stuck between a rock and a hard place to that of a soul-less sex addict. Personally, if I thought xMM had another OW, he'd have been gone a lot sooner. It would have changed my core beliefs about him.

 

Re: interboard bashing....I have been guilty of this when certain things trigger me I am sure. I'm working on walking away from the keyboard

However, I have noticed one discernable pattern. I don't think OW's have an automatic prejudice against BS's. But it does appear that BS's have an immediate perception of the OW as a homewrecking wh*re, an unwelcome interloper whose only goal is husband stealing, a backstabbing jezebel with no respect for the institution of marriage. It's understandable, but that colors a lot of the back and forth.

[Spark1111]

It's awfully hard to remove the spouse from the equation in an OW's mind though. Generally she is chosen over the OW whenever there is a choice to be made and it's hard to forget when you have a constant reminder of how much more important someone else is over you.

 

The betrayal an OW would feel at their MM romancing his W is different than what we would feel if MM had another OW. We already know MM is "cheating" on us with his W but to bring another OW into the equation would change our perception from a MM who is stuck between a rock and a hard place to that of a soul-less sex addict. Personally, if I thought xMM had another OW, he'd have been gone a lot sooner. It would have changed my core beliefs about him.

 

Re: interboard bashing....I have been guilty of this when certain things trigger me I am sure. I'm working on walking away from the keyboard

However, I have noticed one discernable pattern. I don't think OW's have an automatic prejudice against BS's. But it does appear that BS's have an immediate perception of the OW as a homewrecking wh*re, an unwelcome interloper whose only goal is husband stealing, a backstabbing jezebel with no respect for the institution of marriage. It's understandable, but that colors a lot of the back and forth.

 

Misty, so I guess that is part of the reason I made this post: All the OW or OM knows is what they are told. I see it used as justification every day for men and women to choose to have an affair. The pain on these boards is mind-boggling.

 

The cheater has to minimize the marriage to not only enter into an affair, but to get the the AP to, also.

 

Then, the cheater often minimizes the affair to the BS to re-enter the marriage.

 

If we could all empathize with the pain it causes ALL OF US to be deceived by someone we love and who professes to love us, we'd have a much greater understanding and compassion for each other.

 

I agree with you. Most BSs are in soooo much pain, they can't wrap their heads around it and do bash.

 

I personally believe that women hold women to higher ethical and moral standards. Is it fair? Probably not. But as keepers of the clan, we assume you will not interfere with our tribe and the raising of the children, the love of our man, and having all the necessary resources to promote survival of the family unit.

 

I just thought, if we could imagine a scenario where our lover is loving someone else at the same time, forgetting all the my marriage sucks scenario, we could all garner some sympathy for each other.

[donnamaybe]

Spark111, If the marriage were as you described, there would be no OW/OM...

 

That is SOOOOO not true!!! I've known sneaky, lying men who seriously think their world should include variety, regardless how good a relationship they have. I know one man who brags to his friends how he has a perfect wife, and she does seem to be just that. She's beautiful and isn't controlling (though she would be if she only knew), works, takes care of the house, cooks, etc. He still f's around. Self centered prick.

[Gamine]

I am 31. I have had the family life, I was in a LTR at a young age and have children. MM and I got involved at a time that I wasn't looking for anything more. I know I am settling but right now it works for me. I am finishing up my degree and focusing my energy and freetime on my children.

 

I know I need to end it, and I see that time fast approaching but right now I am not ready to walk away.

 

Holy Mary Mother of God... this is one of the absolute saddest situations I have ever read on LS. His wife gives him a baby boy... she isn't servicing him emotionally and sexually RIGHT AFTER THE BIRTH and somehow this 'amazing' guy manages to actually make himself the slightest bit appealing to someone. How can this be humanly possible?

 

Do you have any concept of the magnitude of cake eating that is required in order to pull this doozie off? I am sorry, but in this situation the tragedy of the wife and child is so huge I don't know how it is possible to even consider this man... even for something trivial. The cruelty to his wife and baby is immeasurable. This is the saddest thing so far...

[jennie-jennie]

I understood what you meant Mino.

 

I don't think I have ever seen on this board, an OW acknowledge that her own MM might genuinely love and be in love with his W. I suspect it is one thing that OW just do not "get".

 

At best OW might agree that he loves his W but is not "in love' with her.

 

Perhaps it is understandable as maybe not many OW would be willing to enter into an A with a MM if they think he is deeply, passionately in love with his wife. There is no point saying if he truly loved his W he wouldn't be having an A because we all know that rings just as hollow as saying if he truly loved his OW he would leave his W for her. Basically a MM who wants an A not a divorce, is looking out for number 1 but it doesn't seem to mean he can't have genuinely strong love for both women. uggh.

 

S

 

A MM who is "deeply, passionately in love with his wife" and still has an affair? What kind of man is that? Yuch, the male equivalent of a slut. He totally disrespects his wife and their love together.

[White Flower]

In an effort to promote healing amongst the two, often warring factors of LS,(BS, OP) let's envision this:

 

You are madly, deeply in love with your partner, and you are given every indication that they are madly, deeply in love with you.

 

You are weathering tough times together and your love grows only deeper.

 

Now forget about their W or H. It is not part of this hypothetical imagining.

 

Let's say you discover by accident that your lover has another OW/OM, one they are treating exactly like you; speaking words of undying devotion to EXACTLY like they do to you; having sex off the charts with them as they do with you; talk of a future with them, exactly as they do to you.

 

How would this make you feel? Would it devastate you? Would your world, as you know it come crashing down around you?

 

If we all empathized with this one basic feeling of betrayal and devastation, we could really develop understanding of the two opposing camps at LS.

 

Any thoughts?

I don't have to imagine it, I've been there. Spark, of all people to ask such a thought provoking question I am not surprised it is you.

 

Damn if I don't have to go to work right now. I will write more later but I will say that I already had understanding before my experience with MM but I have even more now. Every conversation I've had with you and others at LS I have imagined it was with MM's W.

 

If we all can remember that both camps are in pain we can empathize and offer good and sincere advice without moral judgments.

[White Flower]

I understood what you meant Mino.

 

I don't think I have ever seen on this board, an OW acknowledge that her own MM might genuinely love and be in love with his W. I suspect it is one thing that OW just do not "get".

 

At best OW might agree that he loves his W but is not "in love' with her.

 

Perhaps it is understandable as maybe not many OW would be willing to enter into an A with a MM if they think he is deeply, passionately in love with his wife. There is no point saying if he truly loved his W he wouldn't be having an A because we all know that rings just as hollow as saying if he truly loved his OW he would leave his W for her. Basically a MM who wants an A not a divorce, is looking out for number 1 but it doesn't seem to mean he can't have genuinely strong love for both women. uggh.

 

S

I respect your posts so often Sid, but I have a dispute with this one or rather a question first: do you believe you can be in love with two people at the same time? I know I can't but that's just me. That is why most people, not just OPs, believe the love over in love ideal with regard to the MM and his W.

 

Although if it is possible for a person to be in love with two people than your theory may be correct.

[jennie-jennie]

In time I'm sure I will get sick of it. I will need and expect more. But for now I am fine with what we have.

 

I am 31. I have had the family life, I was in a LTR at a young age and have children. MM and I got involved at a time that I wasn't looking for anything more. I know I am settling but right now it works for me. I am finishing up my degree and focusing my energy and freetime on my children.

 

I know I need to end it, and I see that time fast approaching but right now I am not ready to walk away.

 

It is your absolute right to feel this way. Stay in the relationship as long as it works for you, leave it when you are done and ready.

 

For those who are taken back by your MM getting involved with you shortly after becoming a father:

 

During my first pregnancy my SO had an EMR. He was deeply in love with the OW, but she ultimately wrongly accused him of a misdemeanour which ended their relationship.

 

I have never thought badly of this OW or of the fact that my SO had an affair with her. The reason is I recognized they truly were in love. They did not choose the time to fall in love, they were just strongly attracted to each other. Had it only been for the sex, it would have been a different story in my eyes, but love is a strong compeller.

[silktricks]

I don't think I have ever seen on this board, an OW acknowledge that her own MM might genuinely love and be in love with his W. I suspect it is one thing that OW just do not "get".

 

At best OW might agree that he loves his W but is not "in love' with her.

 

Perhaps it is understandable as maybe not many OW would be willing to enter into an A with a MM if they think he is deeply, passionately in love with his wife. There is no point saying if he truly loved his W he wouldn't be having an A because we all know that rings just as hollow as saying if he truly loved his OW he would leave his W for her.

S

 

One basis for an affair that is almost never mentioned on this board is anger. I would love to know how many affairs actually do have that basis. In those cases, the MM or MW does still have genuine love and passion for his/her spouse, but is so blasted angry that the is affair primarily to hurt the spouse - and, of course, partly to feel better about themselves...

 

but I also don't know how many MW/MM are self-aware enough to figure out the basic cause.... so maybe that's why it isn't discussed more.

[jennie-jennie]

The betrayal an OW would feel at their MM romancing his W is different than what we would feel if MM had another OW. We already know MM is "cheating" on us with his W but to bring another OW into the equation would change our perception from a MM who is stuck between a rock and a hard place to that of a soul-less sex addict. Personally, if I thought xMM had another OW, he'd have been gone a lot sooner. It would have changed my core beliefs about him.

 

Very well said, Misty. I totally agree.

 

This is why I can't understand how BS prefer that their WS have no feelings for their OW. It proves the WS are "soul-less sex addicts". Who wants such a man?

[NoIDidn't]

This is why I can't understand how BS prefer that their WS have no feelings for their OW. It proves the WS are "soul-less sex addicts". Who wants such a man?

 

Apparrently, his OW wants him too.

 

This is interesting and often comes up. The OW basically saying, you shouldn't want him because he is a "soul-less, sex addict", so you should let me have him - with the implication that the OW can *change* him into a better man (LOL). Never makes any sense to me.

[MistyK]

One basis for an affair that is almost never mentioned on this board is anger. I would love to know how many affairs actually do have that basis. In those cases, the MM or MW does still have genuine love and passion for his/her spouse, but is so blasted angry that the is affair primarily to hurt the spouse - and, of course, partly to feel better about themselves...

 

but I also don't know how many MW/MM are self-aware enough to figure out the basic cause.... so maybe that's why it isn't discussed more.

 

I think this comes into play mostly in revenge affairs, but in thinking it over, the anger could also derive from passive aggressiveness. My xMM was the king of passive aggressive. I won't get into the TMI, but suffice it to say that he enjoyed the idea that he was taking potshots at his wife without her knowing. He had tremendous anger towards her. In some cultures and religions, passive-aggressive is the only way to vent anger and this was definitely true of xMM.

[Spark1111]

I think this comes into play mostly in revenge affairs, but in thinking it over, the anger could also derive from passive aggressiveness. My xMM was the king of passive aggressive. I won't get into the TMI, but suffice it to say that he enjoyed the idea that he was taking potshots at his wife without her knowing. He had tremendous anger towards her. In some cultures and religions, passive-aggressive is the only way to vent anger and this was definitely true of xMM.

 

Ahhh, beware, beware of this man, because the inverse of all that passionate anger is ......passion which could be love.

 

They say when a man is "done" in a relationship, he becomes incredibly distant--no anger, no passion.....nothing. She could be lit on fire while standing next to him and he barely notices.

 

When a relationship is over for a woman, she feels contempt towards him: in her voice, her actions --everything. Not bitterness, but expressed contempt. All respect totally gone.

 

Men and women are so different.

[Spark1111]

A MM who is "deeply, passionately in love with his wife" and still has an affair? What kind of man is that? Yuch, the male equivalent of a slut. He totally disrespects his wife and their love together.

 

jennie-Jennie, happens everyday. Maybe he married too young and wants to sample oranges because he has had only apples. Or he likes a type of kink his wife does not; or he wonders about what it would be like to be with a red head, and she's a blonde.

 

It doesn't mean he does not passionately love his wife. It only means he feels entitled to sample a variety of fruits and he is better at compartmentalizing his physical extra-curricular activities. It means "nothing" to him emotionally.

 

He thinks, "what she doesn't know, can't hurt her."

 

How many married men have affairs? About 60 percent. How many leave their wives for their lover because they fell in love? Less than 5 percent.

 

It happens every day.

[MistyK]

 

How many married men have affairs? About 60 percent. How many leave their wives for their lover because they fell in love? Less than 5 percent.

 

It happens every day.

 

I read somewhere recently that it was about 70% of marriages are affected by infidelity.

 

RE: the 5%-- probably true, but interestingly 25% of relationships started off as mate-poaching. I take that to mean that only a fourth or so of R that start as affairs will work out.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

The betrayal an OW would feel at their MM romancing his W is different than what we would feel if MM had another OW. We already know MM is "cheating" on us with his W but to bring another OW into the equation would change our perception from a MM who is stuck between a rock and a hard place to that of a soul-less sex addict. Personally, if I thought xMM had another OW, he'd have been gone a lot sooner. It would have changed my core beliefs about him.

 

Exactly, this is how MM have it so easy. No single guy could love, persue with the same ferocious zeal as a MM. Not unless he wanted a commitment. A MM has a built in excuse that he can't go any further. He also has this "secret" that he can share only with OW, which furthers the bond between them. An implied "your more important". He gets into a little hot water with her though when his words don't meet his actions.

 

Throw another woman into the picture though and now OW feels betrayed. Something must be wrong with him now. NOW he's a sex addict, before he just needed ME, his soul mate, to fill in all the gaps in his life that his ogre wife can't. Its wrong now because his cake eating a$$ is exposed. Does the OW say I must back down because he loves this OOW more? Does she say that maybe she wasn't fulfilling all of his needs? NOPE, all of a sudden him wanting 2 women is inherently WRONG... only something a cake eater would do. Yet OW were happy to be party to it when it was about THEM. Then his cheating was perfectly justified.

 

I don't think OW's have an automatic prejudice against BS's. But it does appear that BS's have an immediate perception of the OW as a homewrecking wh*re, an unwelcome interloper whose only goal is husband stealing, a backstabbing jezebel with no respect for the institution of marriage

 

I'm certain I've never heard a BS say that was the OW's ONLY goal.

I can't believe any BS would consider her anything more than an unwelcome interloper, would absolutely question her respect for the institution of marriage, and would completely agree that she is contributing to the destruction of her marriage. I would also add self serving to the list.

[Spark1111]

I respect your posts so often Sid, but I have a dispute with this one or rather a question first: do you believe you can be in love with two people at the same time? I know I can't but that's just me. That is why most people, not just OPs, believe the love over in love ideal with regard to the MM and his W.

 

Although if it is possible for a person to be in love with two people than your theory may be correct.

 

White Flower, so good to hear from you again.....

 

This is the part that causes all the pain; the OW being led to believe her love is the more important to him.

 

Is he lying to her? I do not think HE THINKS he is....

 

He may be unhappy, confused, lonely and the OW wants to rescue him from that unhappiness with the IMPLIED BELIEF that she will one day win him forever.

 

That IS a highly romanticized and sexually charged scenario to live in......for years.

 

That is a devastating scenario to a discovering loyal and faithful spouse, often taking years to overcome.

 

How do these people get to wreak such havoc on so many lives out of their own sense of entitlement and emotional CONFUSION?????

 

Look, here I am two years later spending my precious lunch hour STILL seeking understanding!