Done with Sister. Long post, but looking for comments.

[EmmaJ]

I am one of 3 girls (in the middle). Our youngest sister (who is 28) is to put it mildly, a train wreck. My older sister and I are both married and have homes and my older sister has a little boy. My husband and I are going to have children soon as well.

 

Basic chain of events: Little sister dated a married man, who we found out had been in jail, dealt drugs and is a white supremesist. While she was with him she was on drugs, and mentally unstable to the point that she had to be institutionalized for self-abuse and was constantly a disaster with money. My grandparents, parents, my other sister and I have all at one point loaned her money, helped her where we could and she goes right back to problem behavior right after. I stopped helping after a while of seeing the same behavior. So did my other sister. She had broken up with that guy and it had seemed like she was getting her life in gear.

 

xcept that I found out she had lied to my parents about what she was doing with her money. Instead of getting her car fixed, she got a boob job. She ended up moving out of my parents house to rent a place for $X. She called me to go see it and when i stopped by her eyes were glassy and dilated, etc. She was clearly on something. I was with my mom and she never said a thing. Now I have just found out that she has secretly been with that same married man for quite a while again. The rent wasn't $X. It was twice but he was supposed to be paying the other half. The same guy that she was with when she called my phone at 2am and begged for help so that my husband went 30 miles away to pick her up. She is being evicted because of a drug raid on her place and she has been fired. She has no where to go except back to my parent house because he ended up in jail for a year (I don't think it was at her place that he got arrested but I honestly don't know). There is more but suffice it to say, it doesn't get better.

 

I love my sister and I want her to have a good life, but I can't keep dealing with her destructive behavior anymore. I don't want my future children around that man or her if she is going to be with him. And I don't want her in my home if she isn't going to clean herself up. I don't even want to go to my parent's house if she is living there. My parents phones lines are even tapped.

 

I have talked to my other sister and she feels similarly especially since my mom babysits her son. She said that my father is keeping an eye on her but it seems that's all they do. I feel like it's time for some seriously tough love. We've tried to help, but it's done nothing but have her take advantage of us. When anyone tries to talk to her about it she refuses to acknowledge it. She's even hung up on me in the past when I've chastised her for something. My parents have let her become a spoiled brat by letting her do whatever she wanted for years and now it's come to this. I have to tell my sister that I want nothing to do with her and she is not welcome in my home until she straightens her life out. And I have to tell my parents that while they are welcome in home, I nor any of my children will go to their house while she is with them. Thoughts?

[Eve]

Whatever you do make sure it is a family decision and you all do the exact same thing. The priority here is the child. Discuss as a family what to do for his welfare. Sis has to make a choice beyond herself here and it doesnt sound as though she is ready. If you think she is using and is incapable of looking after the child you must protect him beyond looking out for him during the day.

 

Difficult.

 

Are there any support agencies who can support you through this?

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[Phateless]

Whatever you do make sure it is a family decision and you all do the exact same thing. The priority here is the child. Discuss as a family what to do for his welfare. Sis has to make a choice beyond herself here and it doesnt sound as though she is ready. If you think she is using and is incapable of looking after the child you must protect him beyond looking out for him during the day.

 

Difficult.

 

Are there any support agencies who can support you through this?

 

Take care,

Eve xx

 

The screw up sister does not have a kid. The older sister does. Read the post more carefully.

 

As for the original question, this is a very tough call. So far I think you are making the right moves, but it seems like your only resort is to check her into rehab or a psych ward.

 

She's obviously incapable of straightening herself out.

 

I think everyone needs to turn their back on her until she finds a way to straighten herself out. Let her live on the street if she has to, I don't see any other way.

[sweetjasmine]

Warning: I don't have personal experience with this kind of thing and I've only seen it secondhand, so my "advice" is worth what you're paying for it -- it seems like the only thing you can do is tell her that unless she goes into rehab or gets professional help, you and your family are going to cut off all contact and refuse to bail her out next time she gets in trouble. Giving her money or helping her seems to only be enabling the behavior.

 

Maybe you and your family could contact an intervention counselor for professional advice and help.

[Eve]

The screw up sister does not have a kid. The older sister does. Read the post more carefully.

 

As for the original question, this is a very tough call. So far I think you are making the right moves, but it seems like your only resort is to check her into rehab or a psych ward.

 

She's obviously incapable of straightening herself out.

 

I think everyone needs to turn their back on her until she finds a way to straighten herself out. Let her live on the street if she has to, I don't see any other way.

 

I read the post differently

 

'I have talked to my other sister and she feels similarly especially since my mom babysits her son'.

 

Sorry OP if I was mistaken.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[Phateless]

I read the post differently

 

'I have talked to my other sister and she feels similarly especially since my mom babysits her son'.

 

Sorry OP if I was mistaken.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

 

Other sister's son. Not crazy girl's son.

 

Other sister feels similarly because her son is being baby sat when crazy sister is in the house.

 

You follow?

[Eve]

Other sister's son. Not crazy girl's son.

 

Other sister feels similarly because her son is being baby sat when crazy sister is in the house.

 

You follow?

 

 

My older sister and I are both married and have homes and my older sister has a little boy.

 

I see. I thought the sis with issues had a child too.. Apologies again OP and Phateless.

 

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[Phateless]

My older sister and I are both married and have homes and my older sister has a little boy.

 

I see. I thought the sis with issues had a child too.. Apologies again OP and Phateless.

 

 

Take care,

Eve xx

 

No worries. Got any advice for the OP now?

[Eve]

No worries. Got any advice for the OP now?

 

Thank you for your grace.

 

Sorry for the mis-starts.. thats what you get for playing the scrabble rip off game on Facebook and reading posts on here at the same time.

 

 

One word comes to mind... rehab.

 

Sis may not be ready though.

 

We dont know what sis is using and so there is a major problem there. Rehab may not be appropriate at this time. Having her back at moms could work but with the past history outlined it is unlikely because sis shows little regard for the family. Right now the priority is for the family to support each other and get help from professionals such as 'Alnon'

 

A divided house will not stand. At the end of the day, sis could die if help is not sought but it is her life.

 

This seems a pivotal moment,

 

Let her feel it from all sides. The family needs to get advice from people who can help them to deal with the manipulation and direct any feelings of guilt appropriately.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[EmmaJ]

Thank all for answers, but I know that not only would I never get my little sister into couseling, my parents would never admit any need for it. My mother refuses to deal with the situation (she won't even discuss it) and my dad just hopes it will get better. Which amazes me considering this guy she's dating has been arrested for violence several times.

 

Also, how do I tell little sister that she's taking a road I refuse to go down and I want nothing to do with her as long as she does? Do I call her and tell her straight out? Or do I wait until she calls me? The only time I hear from her is when she needs/wants something. She was at my house 2 nights ago for my husband's birthday (I found everything out literally the night before) so I couldn't say anything or it'd be in front of his family and friends as well. I expect her to hear from her since she liked my skirt that I wore and said she wanted to borrow it to wear when she visits him in jail this weekend. Should I just wait for that call or visit?

[Eve]

Emma, what do you want to do? Realistically now, without all the dynamics you have witnessed in the past with other family members?

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[EarthGirl]

Emma,

 

I am not going to go into my whole story, since this is your thread, and I am tired tonight, and I am a little worried that some people here may jump on me in judgement.

 

I will just say that I am a 27 year old woman and I still live at home with my parents. My brother and sister are both out of the house and have been for several years (my sis is my fraternal twin and my bro is 2 and a half years younger). In fact technically since they took me out of the womb first (my mom had a c-section with us), I am the oldest in the family and yet the only one still at home. Since I am about the same age as your sis, I thought I would post.

 

In fact I am going to purposely not state anything about my reasons for still being dependent on my parents at this moment(wether or not you call them reasons or "excuses" really depends on your viewpoint)...just as an experiment to see if there is anybody out there that might see this and actually think for a moment that there is a valid reason for it besides me being a lazy moocher, user and loser.

 

I'll come back in a few days if anybody is curious about my situation, my reasons, and what I've been through.

 

In this day and age and culture, particularly American culture (I am an American, but I imagine that there are a few other countries this is true for and it varies from country to country), people really look down on "weakness" even more than other anti-virtues like dishonesty, cruelty, etc. And also people look down upon those that are not able to be independent financially and practically when it comes to living spaces, cars etc. Just look at all the jokes in America about guys in their 30's that still live with their moms and how no girl in their right mind would want to date a loser like that. We even have songs like "no scrubs'..remember that one?

 

In other countries like Italy and some South American countries, children are expected to stay living at home until they get married even if they are unlucky in love and it takes them till they are 50 it doesn't matter, they are never kicked out as long as they do some chores and everybody gets along...however long it takes, and if their parents get elderly in the meantime, all the better because they have a live in caretaker to help out. They are expected to get jobs and earn a living and pitch in with money of course but there is always a warm bed ready for them because they are family.

 

In our country, it seems like if someone stays a few weeks past their 18th birthday, they are a moocher and there obviously needs to be an intervention done on Dr. Phil.

 

Me, I would LOVE to get out of my parents house. Living with them is constantly dehumanizing and humiliating but for reasons I will explain later, I have not been able to get out yet. ...

[EarthGirl]

..Again, I won't go into my story now, but I will tell you that based on some of your word choices in your original post, it may help you to google these terms: "scapegoat", and "dysfunctional family dynamics" or maybe "roles in dysfunctional families"

 

I have absolutely NO idea if this is will be helpful to you or if it is needed. I am not judging you or your parents..it was just a wild guess. When I stumbled upon some info on this one day I was completely astonished that my family fit almost perfectly into the descriptions of certain roles...me being the scapegoat, for as long as I can remember (long long before I turned 18, when my parents were supposed to be taking care of me and I was getting good grades and was well behaved and supposedly was doing everything right). When I read about the "hero" I knew immediately that was my brother, even though he is younger, and the "doer" would be my sis who has always had a huge problem with wanting to please authority so much that she will go way out of her way to be as perfect as she can almost no matter what it takes.

 

Anyway I said I wasn't going to go into my stuff...so as for your situation..I know addictions are super hard to break, cause I am addicted to food, and have not conquered that yet. Of course it is not illegal and doesn't change the state of my brain (at least not like drugs do).

 

And your situation may be totally different because of the drugs involved and I understand you not wanting your sister to be around your nephew or your future children whatsoever when she is not sober. I would think that that would be the first line to draw. It may not be enough, not because she does not love and care about her nephew but because the addiction is so powerful. But the point is for safety reasons anyway and the wellbeing of the child/ren first and foremost and less about "tough love" for your sis.

 

And as for the so called tough love..my number one suggestion (of course this is very much colored by my very narrow personal experience) is to not stop treating her like a human being. You can throw her out on the streets if that's what you think it will take (or put her into rehab and tell her this is her last chance and if she doesn't get clean than she will be on the streets). You can not give her money to buy drugs. Just make sure you are doing it for the right reasons...not to have a sense of control over her...because she IS an adult even if she cannot take care of herself at the moment like one. If you are being tough on her because you want her to have a better life and be happy, then try to let her know that. But if you really just want the burden of her off your back (it's understandable that that could be PART of the reason for any loved one cause it's so so very hard, but still most loved ones who really cared about their loved one also want the best for THEM and not just to be rid of the trouble), then she is going to sense that.

 

And really if I was a drug addict and it was gonna be absolute hell to get clean, and I thought that my family just thought I was nothing but a train wreck , I might be tempted to not even try, but just shoot up until I finally killed myself.

 

I mean seriously, if she is making YOUR life hell, then you deserve so much better than that, because it's not your fault that she is an addict and at some point no matter if a person is your own blood and you love them, you have to let them go, because sometimes that's the only way they will have a chance to make the decision for themselves if they want to live or die and figure out what it's going to take to do either. And you have your own family you are making, and you really can't have a drugged up sister around while you do that, it is so unhealthy. I completely understand where you are coming from. I am all for the tough love. Just from the little I've heard I don't see how the situation will ever change if no one does anything. All I am saying is make sure that "love" is in fact at least a small part of the actions taken, and not just a part of the catch phrase.

[C-i-C-u]

Earthgirl,

 

You turned this whole thread into you. Food isn't an addiction, you are just weak and you know it. But really I believe the first OP is a troll and not much of the story is real.

I just want to say that if you are going to leave a sibling or parent behind, then do it.

[EarthGirl]

Earthgirl,

 

You turned this whole thread into you. Food isn't an addiction, you are just weak and you know it. But really I believe the first OP is a troll and not much of the story is real.

I just want to say that if you are going to leave a sibling or parent behind, then do it.

 

I know no such thing. I know my own life, my own body, and my own truth. You can believe what you want, and state what you want in a hostile and classless way to a total stranger, but just saying so doesn't make it so. I did not say I hold no responsibility for my life situation, only that it is far from easy to take that responsibility and INDEED food has a hold on me that it does NOT have on everyone, literally tastes better for me than it does for others, and my stomach literally gets hungrier than others so much to the point that it is actually physically painful, not just "uncomfortable" ...even when I've had more than enough calories that my body supposedly needs for the day. This is the truth for many fat people. There are also many emotional problems involved along with the physicality of the body, many times because of past trauma. I don't know the exact science behind it, but I'm sure more and more of it is becoming known these days, but I do not feel the need to validate your attack and gross ignorance by even taking the extra time to look for it.

 

It is a broad cultural myth that obesity is the only affliction left that does not have any cause beyond "weakness" of the very person that suffers with it. As long as our culture keeps beating up on fat people and making fun of them and humiliating them and not even giving the smallest of concessions that there are other forces involved than just an individuals weakness or laziness...Americans will just keep getting fatter and fatter, with their heads hung down in shame, when they really have just as much a right as anybody to hold their heads high, even while waiting in line at McDonald's.

 

But I guess that that would be convenient for you CC, cause when all the fat people get thin, how will you know who to demean and bully anymore?

[Phateless]

I know no such thing. I know my own life, my own body, and my own truth. You can believe what you want, and state what you want in a hostile and classless way to a total stranger, but just saying so doesn't make it so. I did not say I hold no responsibility for my life situation, only that it is far from easy to take that responsibility and INDEED food has a hold on me that it does NOT have on everyone, literally tastes better for me than it does for others, and my stomach literally gets hungrier than others so much to the point that it is actually physically painful, not just "uncomfortable" ...even when I've had more than enough calories that my body supposedly needs for the day. This is the truth for many fat people. There are also many emotional problems involved along with the physicality of the body, many times because of past trauma. I don't know the exact science behind it, but I'm sure more and more of it is becoming known these days, but I do not feel the need to validate your attack and gross ignorance by even taking the extra time to look for it.

 

It is a broad cultural myth that obesity is the only affliction left that does not have any cause beyond "weakness" of the very person that suffers with it. As long as our culture keeps beating up on fat people and making fun of them and humiliating them and not even giving the smallest of concessions that there are other forces involved than just an individuals weakness or laziness...Americans will just keep getting fatter and fatter, with their heads hung down in shame, when they really have just as much a right as anybody to hold their heads high, even while waiting in line at McDonald's.

 

But I guess that that would be convenient for you CC, cause when all the fat people get thin, how will you know who to demean and bully anymore?

 

EDIT - as for the science behind obesity, spend 10 minutes with Google Scholar (www.scholar.google.com) and learn about it for yourself. Why assume that science backs you up? What if it doesn't?

 

Come on...

 

As long as you keep telling yourself that your problems are insurmountable, then they will be. It's all about CHOICES. You can choose to eat healthier, you can choose to get your ass off the couch and get some exercise, you can choose to pursue financial aid, go back to school, get a degree, get a good job, and move the hell out of your parents' house.

 

Do not blame YOUR CHOICES on external factors, and DO NOT confuse the two, because you are stripping yourself of any power and control you may have over your own life.

 

See this link (Wikipedia) on Explanatory Style.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explanatory_style

 

This post is not to beat you up, but rather to motivate you to do something to make the changes that you want in your own life.

 

It's not about willpower - it's about deciding not to prevent yourself from making the changes you want.

 

Another link

http://www.oprah.com/article/omagazine/200901_omag_willpower

[EarthGirl]

I don't need a stranger's motivation, nor do I want it, that is completely condescending in the worst way.

 

The truth is most of my problems come from being dehumanized and blamed for things that are not my fault (I am not saying my situation is not my fault, although I absolutely do not believe it is, but I am talking about other tangible things here that are not even my responsibility and could not even be taken to be it even by close minded folks like you) my entire life, every freaking day since I was a little bitty kid, up to this day.

 

I have been preyed on by the mental health community that was supposed to help me...basically forced to take many pills for years that I never wanted to take and I knew would not help me, and in fact did not, simply because that's the way it works, and my past trauma has been used against me by "professionals" because they know, being mental health professionals (albeit not especially competent ones), that it is almost impossible for me to stand up to authority. I asked nicely multiple times to lower dosages and then I was more firm, as firm as I can possibly be as a person to an authority figure (which may seem like a mouse to others, but to me I was as much like a lion as I could possibly possibly muster). Finally after I was more firm AND with the help of a health scare that she thought may have been caused by one of the medications (I'm positive it was for the sake of her career much more than my health), she started lowering doses, just as I was about to either just do it myself without telling her, or get a new psychiatrist to help me. I believe that several of these years have been wasted because I have been numbed by a lot of prescribed drugs, and honestly sometimes it's been like I don't even notice time passing, even weeks, months. Of course I got up and bathed occasionally and got dressed and went out to window shop occasionally, but it was like I was just existing and...paralyzed. You do not know what it's like. It was NOT a choice. Not a choice anymore than breathing is a choice. It's hard to explain . When I've been on less I have felt a lot more clear. But I still live every day in fear.

[EarthGirl]

As far as I am concerned I owe my parents NOTHING. They raised me to be dependent, and now they seem all surprised and offended that I still live under their roof and don't pay my way...they dismissed my self worth every day. They basically did not parent in any emotional way. They simply put a roof over my head and my mom made my lunch every day, all that stuff. What more could a kid want, some would say. They did not teach me to reach for my dreams, they taught me that I would never be good enough or smart enough to have my dreams.

 

I also have actual mental disabilties and part of the problem has been that I seem too smart and normal to be "disabled", but the reality is that I cannot work even a lot of entry level jobs because I am literally not fast enough (both with motor skills and mental skills-mostly mental, I used to be a dancer and I have ok reflexes, but ok, so I'm just slow)...and cannot work under pressure because I freeze.

 

I can't just get a job at Starbucks because I would literally not be able to remember all the drinks and move my hands fast enough to make them, etc., no matter how hard I tried. Believe me I have tried multiple jobs with high hopes only to fail, and the humiliation is still fresh in my mind from each one.

 

You don't know how humiliating and scary it is to hear people saying in this economy how "if worse comes to worse I guess I'll just get a job in retail or do some waitressing"..."entry level" jobs that don't pay all that much and people tend to do when they have no other options and not a lot of skills or education. To realize that there are NO options for me except getting a horribly boring library job which may STILL cause my blood pressure to rise when it gets less boring to dangerous levels even if it would be a cake walk for other people...or getting disability payments, which even if I qualify in their eyes, isn't nearly enough for a person to be independent financially...to live like a normal person in a normal apartment even if it is a very humble studio apartment, or even with roommates...you really have to live in subsidized housing for "disabled" people.

 

So what, I have not wanted to officially call myself "disabled". I am not disabled in my eyes, I am a completely normal person, i just can't do everything some other adults can do, like driving, work, etc.

 

So you know what, I will NOT f*cking apologize for anything. Certainly not to any stranger on some stupid forum. And I will certainly not apologize to my parents. I will not say I had choices when I know I really didn't.

 

And you know what, Phateless, people like you are not part of the solution, you are part of the PROBLEM. That said, you are just a stranger to me, nothing but a small thorn in my side I just pulled out and is gone forever never to be seen again...and I will now direct my well deserved anger on my parents and my "professionals" who use me for their own purposes instead of seeing me as a god damn human being.

 

And the little bit of good you did do was maybe pissing me off enough to let off some steam, although I was already composing an almost identical rant in my head before I saw your post which was inspired my my last psychiatrist appt. yesterday which I was going to write in my online diary today. So yeah, thanks for nothin.

 

You know there are people out there that do not ever ever judge someone else unless they have been "in their shoes"...which in many cases is impossible , in most cases actually, which simply means that they never judge. It is more a rhetorical thing (not sure if I am using that correctly)...it is inherent in the phrase, though it is unsaid, that it is impossible to be in another "shoes" (i.e. to go through the absolute exact life experience they have), therefore it is simply wise to never judge ...that doesn't mean we can't have opinions or ideas about what things are really about, or that actual "judges" can't pass judgement based on their knowledge of law and order and all the evidence. But it means that about certain things that are not scientific in nature, and cannot be proven true or false (like the experience of existing in someone else's life and someone else's body, every second of their life from birth)...should NEVER be a closed case in your mind...because you simply don't know.

 

Come on, I am giving you gold here. Not to say I am some revolutionary thinker, because I am sure this stuff is said in many places by much smarter people just in different ways.

 

But you say that I need to get my life together and make the right choices. I do not have a job or my own place to live and I am overweight and unhealthy. Maybe you are fit and healthy and have a job and a place to live and pay all your bills on time. But how have you really "moved up" as a PERSON since you were 18?

 

You "choose" to judge a stranger that never did anything to you and was only trying to help, based only on a few paragraphs. What does that say about YOUR choices in life?

You "choose" to judge a stranger that never did anything to you and was only trying to help, based only on a few paragraphs. Sounds much like high school behavior to me. What does that say about YOUR choices in life? Are you one of those people that sees homeless people on the streets and makes up stories behind the windshield of your car where they can't hear, about how they must have been lazy or did something inappropriate at their job to get them fired, or they are a no good drug addict and they are simply weak for not being able to get back on their feet?

 

p.s. there is evidence that the "pleasure centers" of the brain are actually much more active in obese people, during the process of eating ,than they are in thinner people. I saw in on the news, I am not making it up.

[Phateless]

I'm sorry if I hurt you, I can see how I came across condescending. I assure you that was not my intention.

 

My point is that yes, all of that bad stuff happened, and yes, other people messed up big.

 

After a certain point it makes more sense to direct your efforts inward and forward and start strategizing on what to do next.

 

I'm not here to knock you down, just trying to remind you that lingering on what brought you here won't help move you forward.

 

I could whine about being 28 and having no degree, or I can buckle down and make the sacrifices necessary to get one.

 

It's my choice.

 

It sounds to me like you're choosing to be the victim. The victim mentality will keep you stagnant.

 

Again, I apologize if I hurt you. I only wish you the best.

[EarthGirl]

p.s. I glanced at the website you posted even though I knew it would be offensive to me. You do not even want to hear what I have to say on this subject because it will last pages and pages. I have written a lot about it and have been planning to write a book about all my experiences and viewpoints on depression and the causes.

 

But the basics of it are this: It is something like proving that God exists or not. It can never ever be done by so called science. To attempt to try to investigate the truth of heartache, pain, trauma, terror, and also the mystery of why some get through it and even thrive and some don't...it's like trying to see the stars with a microscope instead of a telescope...I think it would be better and more accurately done through philosophy and art than science. The complications of why one person's life experience as a human existing on this planet is different from another's....It is like thousands and thousands...millions, billions of times more complicated than neurosurgery or rocket science, it is pointless. We will never be advanced enough. In fact sometimes I think the more advanced we get, the farther away we get from the truth. Though I appreciate that someone has given it a shot somewhere.

 

Just the idea of a "negative event" is so relative that it's laughable that that term could ever be used in a "scientific" way. Just like they say, one man's garbage is another man's treasure...one man's tragedy is another man's blessing. And more often one man's (or woman's) defining heartbreak, is nothing but a bump in the road to another. While if the latter was faced with a different "negative event" and so was the former, it would be the opposite way around.

 

To say that these things can be quantified is to demean and grossly underestimate the entire human experience, both good and bad. It's like saying that the finest and most intricate tapestry in the world is nothing but a couple knots.

 

It's also taking something that may actually have some truth to it (athough probably not nearly as much as you think)...the fact that some people are more sensitive and experience things as more difficult than others who experience the same thing, and even may benefit somewhat negatively or positively based on wether they blame different sources (wether they blame themselves, God, fate, or others in their life)...and also that there are times in all our lives when we need to "man up and take responsiblity for ourselves"...this is all valid but is used in a corrupted way to INVALIDATE pain experienced and further demean the sufferer by saying "it's all your fault" ..."there are no excuses". "it's all in your head". nothing bad really happened to you, you do not have a right to complain, other people have it much worse, we don't have any PROOF of "negative events" in your life so it must be a chemical imbalance and we must drug you up, etc...or otherwise you are just a weak person who will not take responsibility and blames everyone else (which is not true, I only blame my parents, God, and the professionals, everyone else in my life is true blue, I am blessed with wonderful people that have kept me afloat in total darkness) for their own problems. Again, we have no absolute scientific proof that you have tried your very best, so we must assume that you are a lesser being than us.

 

I cant' go on. In all seriousness I need to go find something to eat, wether healthy or unhealthy, I am shaking and I think my blood sugar is low...gonna go see if there is any orange juice left in the fridge.

 

but p.s. I've noticed that it is common practice these days on the net on forums for more learned people to come back with evidence that what the previous poster said in plain English is not really true but they are "explaining" a certain way whatever. the whole "straw man" thing. which I just think it's says something devious about humanity that there even needs to be a term for that.

 

I am not suggesting that is what you did. I do believe you sincerely wanted to help me and believed that you were giving me useful info. But it is assuming that what I say is not the truth. It may be objective in a way, but I was there, and I felt what I felt in my own life from moment to moment, so in another way my truth is an absolute truth wether you like it or not.

 

By the way, I am NOT saying that from this moment on I will never make something out of my life. I have SOOOO not given up. I am simply saying that up until this point it has been out of my hands, as much as if I was literally chained to a chair.

 

I know that the way I get my power back is not by a stranger motivating me by saying that I imagined what I've been through or that I should be taking responsibility for all the circumstancs I've found myself in, basically blaming myself for things which were out of my control, which is the whole REASON I AM so powerless in my life...., but by VALIDATING the pain I've been through, and since no one has ever been so kind as to do that for me (except for one amazing person and an amazing cat), I have finally realized I have to do that for myself, which I have finally started to do just in the last week (funny that this post came up when was it, yesterday?).

 

Before I can ever find a way to earn money or live on my own I have to admit to myself that it's not my fault in any way that I haven't been able to do that up to this point all this time, and also that I am a worthy person same as anybody and everybody else..I am not lazy, I am not weak, I am not selfish, I am not a moocher, nor do I sidestep responsibility when I should be taking it. I have done the very best i could. period.

 

I am not saying I have never made any mistakes. I make mistakes all the time, and I feel bad for them and I apologize and try to right them. I have learned to apologize to the point that it no longer hurts my pride but actually feels good to accept responsibility when I know I have failed someone, to hang my head and even grovel, particularly when it is someone I love. I simply don't admit wrongdoing where there is none.

 

now really I can talk you around a pole until you concede defeat about these issues, at least that I have very strong points, if not completely giving up your own views... I may not be as educated, but I can, believe me, I have done it many times before. but being as I don't need that kind of validation from strangers on the net anymore and wasting hours trying to prove myself a good person to ...myself, ironically, I am done with these crazy long posts ( I am sure you all think I am nutso now, oh well, maybe I am)...and don't think I will even be returning to this thread at all (that is NOT by the way so I have "the last word", I have no hard feelings...only that i have "said my peace" as they say and I have no reason to return, especially if it will be hurtful to my spirit). hopefully they won't ban me or anything for being so passionate. ha ha well this is the love shack after all, passion is allowed, maybe just not this kind ; )

[EarthGirl]

please understand Phateless that I obviously have a lot of pent up anger that I have not expressed to the appropriate people and is really directed at people in my life, and not at you, and you are just the unfortunate stranger that happened to unleash it.

 

Thank you for apologizing for hurting my feelings, even if not agreeing with me, that was very cordial and nice.

 

Just as a response to your last post (I am not even going to look at this thread after this one, I've learned that if I get into one of these rants online and am arguing with people, it's best just to cut it off at some point and never look back to avoid more hurt feelings on both sides and unessescary conflict, so sorry if you have something to say or are saying at this very moment, that I will not be able to see or respond to and may never see-though I may be braver later on)...

 

I do not want to play the victim and I do not want to BE a victim. That's the last thing I want to be for the rest of my life. All I ever wanted was for someone to admit that I WAS once a victim, at one point in time.

 

Also sometimes you are so tired from life you simply do not have anything left to give, and even if others think you are selfish or not tough enough and have never really tried that hard or don't that much, and others are so much less fortunate than you and you are not contributing much to the world...you just don't have it in you to make any more sacrifices either for yourself and your own dreams and goals or even starving children in Africa or whatever. Makes you feel like sh*t, but sometimes you literally physically and emotionally have no energy left to give of yourself to the world even if you want to help so very badly. I guess that sometimes leads to that suicide thing, but I am not there right now.

 

You are entitled to your opinion and if you think that I am playing the victim, then it is a valid opinion and it's possible you could be right or at least have some insight I don't have even if I don't agree and even if I am the one that has been living my life. I do appreciate that you weren't really trying to demean me but only get me to see something so I would be more empowered. I am really sorry for taking out all my anger on the love shack community and specifically Phateless, when I really was angry at people that I don't have the balls to stand up to!

 

peace out.

[Phateless]

Completely understand, I don't hold anything against you. I realize this is a touchy subject and I do apologize if I made you feel as if I were attacking you. I promise that is not my goal.

 

I think you are really onto something when you mention VALIDATION, because that is something I have caught myself seeking for a long time. One of the hardest things for me to accept was that the people who hurt me are precisely the ones who would be the most resistant to validating my pain.

 

My parents, my ex gf, everybody. The best thing I did was to give up on their validation and move on. That's the reason I don't talk to my ex - I don't want to start feeling like I want validation from her. I'm better off when I forget all about it and go forward.

 

You are right that nobody can prove what you did or did not go through, or how it affected you. We are not inside your head and heart and we can't possibly know how it felt. We do know our own experiences, though, and how we got through them. That's not even important though, and not really what I was getting at.

 

I think what's important is what comes NOW. Forgive yourself for anything you blame yourself for, regardless of whether or not it's even your fault!

 

Don't try to "settle" whether you are or are not responsible for events in your past. Dwelling on the past only keeps you there. Forgive yourself and move forward. You can do it!

 

Does what I'm saying make sense?

[Eve]

Earthgirl.

 

I see what you are saying. However support is a two way thing. Sometimes what we want others to do for us really is what we need to do for ourselves. Yes, different cultures have different family structures but within those structures there are universally understood aims. The main one being that parents really are only there to guide a child - the child must find their own way. Regarding family dynamics that do not work well, I have found that something goes a bit wrong somewhere and that innate cry for ones caregiver does not mature into being able to define oneself seperately from the caregiver. So many adults do various (often negative and self defeating) things in order to maintain contact with parental figures. Mostly they have no idea that this is what they are actually doing. Sometimes it is because the caregiver has not been able to provide a certain level of warmth, other times they have been given too much freedom beyond their capability. Its a hard balance to strike and I dont believe any parent gets it perfectly right. What matters is what we do to minimise damage to ourselves and others.

 

The OP sees a dynamic whereby sis goes from one disaster to another. The OP has developed her own set of values and seems to be able to live by these values, except for when sis breezes by. Sis has no right to force her lifestyle on anyone and her behaviour to me suggests that she has an ill developed sense of others. Essentially, she treats everyone as she treats herself, indiscriminate of their values. This is at very least annoying at worst dangerous if done in the presence of those who are vulnerable. Children are vulnerable because they need nurturing. However, the OP cannot simularily ask others to treat sis in any other way than what they feel to be right. So, the parents may continue to enable the behaviour knowingly and/or unknowingly. Hence my suggestion of at least looking at professional guidance. Still, I feel for any parent that has such a situation to deal with. I cant say that I could ever give up on any of my babies...

 

Please dont take this the wrong way. In your situation I would say that you also have not developed a defined sense of self seperate from your parental figure. Its like you still are crying and expecting to be picked up. By a certain age for survival sake we need to be able to comfort and be critical of ourselves. So, yes, I understand what you are saying in many respects but time does not wait for anyone. If you continue as you are you will find only the same answers. We all have to find new answers for old ways.

 

The answer is to actualise a means to stop crying and start talking. Now, many parents are not able to talk to their children because they are stuck within listening to them cry. This is why it is important that young people go out and make their own way. Overall, I would say that it is rare that parents are seen as anything other than this role to their children. The most well adjusted probably are so because this dynamic is stable. Therefore they have learned to direct themselves even in the face of even damaging influences.. of which there are obviously many damaging ones to name. So, I understand what you are saying but it is damaging for you to be so fixed on such matters.. at your age. Thats the bottom line.

 

I would say that the OP should simply tell sis how she feels. I have learned through my faith that its not about magic answers, its about living virtues and pulling ones weight. I understand brokenness though... but it is in seeking healing that often we learn to talk but in a new way.

 

So, I wish you and the OP well foremostly in terms of finding peace. Once a person learns to speak from a place of peace it is then that often they are heard. In my experience, this has been the key, or pivot to simply do something new and thus be free from destructive cycles. As Phateless eloquently put, to stop preventing oneself from doing better.

 

Anyhow, I am rambling now...

 

Just do what is the honest thing to do for yourself and others. The universe seems to sort out everything else if we choose to listen..

 

All the best,

Take care,

Eve xx

[sb129]

Sheesh, no wonder the OP didn't come back to her thread, its not about her at all anymore.

 

EarthGirl- I would suggest two things to you to make your story more "palatable" to others.

 

1.) Don't hijack other peoples threads with your issues- start your own

 

2.) Condense your posts to make them easier to digest.

[stillafool]

I think everyone needs to turn their back on her until she finds a way to straighten herself out. Let her live on the street if she has to, I don't see any other way.

 

I agree. Your parents should refuse to let her stay with them anymore. Only the baby could stay. She will continue to do as she is doing as long as she knows she always will have a "safe haven" to run to (your parents home). The only thing to do is let her hit "rock bottom".