Why do men look at other women?!

[Dexter Morgan]

Well, sometimes I do, but very rarely. I guess it depends on the girl. Ya sometimes I see an "attractive" male, but I'm VERY descrete about it and I dont oggle over them like men do.

 

ok, so you are descrete about it. in other words, its ok for you to look but not him. only difference is, you notice that he does it.

 

reason I point this out is you put it on here as "why do men always do that" sort of thing. women do it too, they just don't want to admit it or excuse it away as, "well, I don't do it alot".

[Dexter Morgan]

Well that makes it all better. Since guys respond to lust so readily, please lust away and use no self control. What was I thinking. It all makes sense now. I can't believe I thought men made justifacations for certain negative behaviors on the fact that they are "guys", how silly of me. If it's lusting after other women, then that's perfectly okay and men should do it more often.

 

what if thinking about another woman sexually 1 time out of 10, the same number of times you said you look at a man and think sexual thoughts, would that be ok?

 

its almost as if women are saying, "its ok for us since we don't do it as much. and if we happen to get all wet over another guy 1 time out of 10, then we are entitled....whereas you damn men are not!":mad:

[Jersey Shortie]

I think it's pretty disheartening the amount of things men expect women to be okay with under the guise that he is a guy. It's like men expect women to accept anything that pleases him under the sun. He is allowed to run around pandering to his physical emotions but a woman is supose to curb all of hers because after all, he lets you do his laundry. While you are doing his laundry he can jump online and jerk off to Naughty Cheerleaders Volume 400000000000.

 

As a woman, we know how much competition is out there. And we know how easily swayed men are by it. And it's not like men, expecially your man, ever give you a safe haven to forget that and be special to him and just be happy and thankful and appreciative of what he has. What happend to that? being greatful for what you have instead of the mentality that "well there is awalsy something better out there so I might as well oggle and jerk off about it later"? Because it seems like men today are more concerned at getting a peek at something the respecting their female partners. I don't even understand why men have relationships since loyatly and respect are clearly things men don't think women deserve to have from them. I get why I want arelationship with a man. I don't get why men even pretend they care about treating women right when it appears that women are just interchangable worthless body parts to them to visually upgrade every chance they get. Doesn't matter what you do for him. Doesn't matter how much you love him or how sexually advertous you are. That will never be enough. He will always go back to self grafying himself with other women on the side. And clearly, most men can't be happy with what they have. I just don't feel like as a woman, you ever get a break anymore. Out in public? there are alot of men oggling women not their wives of gfs. At home? YOu can damn be sure alot of men are suring the internet for porn of other women. You don't get to have a safe place anymore to get any relief from all the preasures in the world. And as a woman, I try really hard to fight those stereotypes and pressures, but if the man you care about buys right into them..if most men buy int othem...well women get the short end of the stick. When do men give us a break and try treating us like we matter instead of all the visual peeks and new porn movies being what matter to men or what defines them. It seems that sadly, alot of men define themselves through their ability to oggle other women and look at porn. Not their ablility to create a safe place for their gf to come to in him and a place where she can really be vunerable and open with him without him having to always be the prowl for new vagina.

[Paragon]

Dina,

 

Let me first say that your feelings on this subject are totally normal, natural, AND good! The answer to your question is not a short or simple one, but perhaps I can briefly illuminate some of the workings behind this act and help you understand it on a deeper level so you can possibly reframe or reassess the situation in more accurate and beneficial way.

 

Men are primarily visual creatures, and are stimulated mainly through their visual senses. Looks and attractiveness fall on the high end of the value spectrum for men. Women on the other hand are wired to respond to how things make them feel. You will get turned on or stimulated not if your man comes out dressed in a new and sexy lingerie outfit, but if he plans a romantic evening, or does something you like, etc. Men and women respond to different things. One way is not any better than the other--they are simply different. That is how evolution has wired our brains.

 

Something else that is extremely important to understand--society and technology evolved WAY faster than we did. Biological evolution takes longer than societal or technological evolution. Our brains still have primordial circuits, wirings, urges, impulses, etc. We are still biologicaly ancient creatures relative to the world in which we live. Not everything we do is conscious, not everything we think and feel is deliberate. For example, attraction—is not a choice. You don’t CHOOSE what you are attracted to, you simply respond. It’s like ice cream. You didn’t choose your favorite flavor, you just have one. But I digress.

 

Now back on track, one of the primordial circuits in a man's brain tells him to look for potential mates. This urge gets stronger and stronger and happens more often and eventually becomes a deeply embedded habit/impulse. So when he's out, he's constantly (and mostly UNconsciously) looking at/assessing other women. Is this bad? No. It's the same mechanism by which he is attracted to you. He spotted you, and you were labeled attractive. This happens when he's out and about, when he looks at other women. He's constantly appraising their looks. HOWEVER...And this is a big however...This fact means NOTHING. It's simply a description of the internal PRIMORDIAL processes going on in his brain. We are not all primordial urges and wirings.

 

He’s made the conscious choice to date you, so although he may be looking at other women, it doesn’t really mean very much. Despite what many people think or say, men ARE capable of simply looking at a girl, being physically attracted to her, and having it end there forgetting about her in the next few seconds. Beauty is common, and MOST genuine men know that. I assume you think your partner IS a genuine man, which is one of the reasons you are dating him.

Is this looking-at-other-women phenomenon a stage, or something that will end if suddenly you transform yourself into the most beautiful woman on the planet? No—it won’t. It’s an inherent process to ALL males, and it has NOTHING to do with how attractive you are in his eyes or even in general. Don’t let yourself get caught up in the mistake of lumping the two things together and correlating them inside your head.

All this being said, there are quite a few things your partner can do to ease your apprehension about all of this, but that’s a whole ‘nother topic to be discussed. The important thing here is that you come away from reading this post with a deeper understanding of WHY this happens. If you look at your initial post, your lack of understanding is causing you to have cognitive and conscious stress—that’s the kind of stuff you can do without. Your gut reaction of getting a bit jealous? That’s a good thing and you should appreciate that you feel that, because it’s part of caring about someone deeply. I hope this post was clear, and let me know if you have any thoughts/agreements/disagreements about it and we can go from there!

[Dexter Morgan]

I think it's pretty disheartening the amount of things men expect women to be okay with under the guise that he is a guy. It's like men expect women to accept anything that pleases him under the sun. He is allowed to run around pandering to his physical emotions but a woman is supose to curb all of hers because after all, he lets you do his laundry. While you are doing his laundry he can jump online and jerk off to Naughty Cheerleaders Volume 400000000000.

 

methinks you are canoodling with the wrong "men". men in general, more specifically good men, don't think that way.

[missdependant]

methinks you are canoodling with the wrong "men". men in general, more specifically good men, don't think that way.

 

 

I'm finally on the last episode of season 3 of Dexter! :-o

[Trialbyfire]

methinks you are canoodling with the wrong "men". men in general, more specifically good men, don't think that way.

Based on the blanket way she describes men, these are internal issues, not external. Each "molehill" gets blown up to gargantuan, insurmountable barriers between genders, where THE finger gets pointed to the "bad" male gender. This way, she doesn't have to admit that her personal insecurities are the major problem. In this, it's like a personal revision of reality so she's blameless in her perceptions.

 

This is identical to the methodologies used by the misogynists on LS. Take a drop of reality and create the bogeyman from it.

[AAlike]

Paragon,

 

I basically agree with the gist of your post - that she should not be placing much weight on an incidental look, that all PEOPLE (not just men) will respond to people that they find attractive, and that momentary attraction is completely different than focused feelings or attraction.

 

However, this passage raised my eyebrows a bit:

 

Dina,

Men are primarily visual creatures, and are stimulated mainly through their visual senses. Looks and attractiveness fall on the high end of the value spectrum for men. Women on the other hand are wired to respond to how things make them feel. You will get turned on or stimulated not if your man comes out dressed in a new and sexy lingerie outfit, but if he plans a romantic evening, or does something you like, etc. Men and women respond to different things. One way is not any better than the other--they are simply different. That is how evolution has wired our brains.

 

I think that there are some commonly used generalizations in here that I disagree with.

 

The first one is the implication that women do not place as much importance on looks as men do. that is simply wrong. just because men might be more "susceptible" to a visual image than women or however you want to put it, does not mean that women place less importance on those visual images. if you think that looks fall on the "low end of the value spectrum" for women you are nuts. just because women aren't regularly trying to stare up guys' shorts doesn't mean that they don't care about looks as much as we do.

 

Second is the part that women only get "emotionally horny" or whatever. to use your example, my GF very frequently will see me wearing a particular pair of boxers fresh out of the shower and instantly get turned on, much more so than "I took her out to dinner, wow did it get her wet." and I see plenty of single women in bars, and I don't mean meat market bars, that have no problem picking up a hot guy and not because of how he "emotionally stimulated" her. women are definitely capable of being stimulated by purely physical things - maybe not in the same way (i.e. just the sight of a guy's balls or something isn't going to get them all hot), but most women that I know are just as responsive to physical traits as men.

[Dina2208]

Paragon,

 

wow your post was probably one of the best ones! Honestly, I've posted this thread like 2 weeks ago maybe and now, looking back at the whole topic, it dosen't bother me as much anymore! I know that he loves me and ya its a natural reaction men have to look at other women. Sometimes I catch him do it, but instead of feeling overly jealous, I either look away and think of something else, or I just look along but discreetly so he dosen't know I'm looking at the same girl he is lol I just want to take a peak at what hes taking a peak at lol. But when does it go over the line?

[Jersey Shortie]

Based on the blanket way she describes men, these are internal issues, not external. Each "molehill" gets blown up to gargantuan, insurmountable barriers between genders, where THE finger gets pointed to the "bad" male gender. This way, she doesn't have to admit that her personal insecurities are the major problem. In this, it's like a personal revision of reality so she's blameless in her perceptions.

 

This is identical to the methodologies used by the misogynists on LS. Take a drop of reality and create the bogeyman from it.

 

Shealth your claws Trial. And try reading my posts. I said that I DO control my feelings when I notice my guy looking at another woman. I said that it WASN'T fair to explode all over him for it. But it's not fair either for men to sit there and say that it's okay to look because that is "natural" but a woman getting upset over the looking isn't or she is *just* insecures when she has a good reason to question what is running through his head. This isn't about insecurities or not insecurities. I never said I didn't have any and never pretended that they couldn't be worked on. That doesn't make what I say any less valid or true. I don't ask perfection from men either. But I hate this mentality that "I'm a guy and it's okay if I do this". That's not fair. I don't excuse my crappy behavior because I am a woman and you never ONCE have seen me do that here. Funny that we expect women to control their emotional responses but we don't expect men to contronl their sexual responses.

[northstar1]

Shealth your claws Trial. And try reading my posts. I said that I DO control my feelings when I notice my guy looking at another woman. I said that it WASN'T fair to explode all over him for it. But it's not fair either for men to sit there and say that it's okay to look because that is "natural" but a woman getting upset over the looking isn't or she is *just* insecures when she has a good reason to question what is running through his head. This isn't about insecurities or not insecurities. I never said I didn't have any and never pretended that they couldn't be worked on. That doesn't make what I say any less valid or true. I don't ask perfection from men either. But I hate this mentality that "I'm a guy and it's okay if I do this". That's not fair. I don't excuse my crappy behavior because I am a woman and you never ONCE have seen me do that here. Funny that we expect women to control their emotional responses but we don't expect men to contronl their sexual responses.

 

Who is 'we'?

[Paragon]

Paragon,

 

I think that there are some commonly used generalizations in here that I disagree with.

 

The first one is the implication that women do not place as much importance on looks as men do. that is simply wrong. just because men might be more "susceptible" to a visual image than women or however you want to put it, does not mean that women place less importance on those visual images. if you think that looks fall on the "low end of the value spectrum" for women you are nuts. just because women aren't regularly trying to stare up guys' shorts doesn't mean that they don't care about looks as much as we do.

 

Second is the part that women only get "emotionally horny" or whatever. to use your example, my GF very frequently will see me wearing a particular pair of boxers fresh out of the shower and instantly get turned on, much more so than "I took her out to dinner, wow did it get her wet." and I see plenty of single women in bars, and I don't mean meat market bars, that have no problem picking up a hot guy and not because of how he "emotionally stimulated" her. women are definitely capable of being stimulated by purely physical things - maybe not in the same way (i.e. just the sight of a guy's balls or something isn't going to get them all hot), but most women that I know are just as responsive to physical traits as men.

 

AAlike,

 

How much experience do you have dealing with people and women on a romantic basis or even interacting with them on their deepest and innermost levels? If it's anything more than "a little" you will be hard pressed to back up your own above words.

 

Some of the viewpoints I expressed are indeed generalizations--this is a forum and I couldn't possibly go into all of the extreme detail that a question like this would have in it's answer, so I try to be as cogent and concise as possible. However, you must keep in mind that those generalizations will apply to about %80-90 of people--a lot, but not all.

 

Now, as for women caring about looks as much as guys--THAT is simply wrong. %80-90 of women will still date, mate, marry, or have some kind of romantic relationship with a guy they do NOT find physically attractive simply because of how me emotionally stimulates her, whereas %80-90 of men would NEVER do this.

 

Here's another example: the porn industry. It's geared towards men because men are the primary consumers of it. But wait, you say, more women are watching it (or are finally admitting to watching it). Yes, that is very true, but have you ever researched or looked into the differences in how they are stimulated by it? Men are stimulated by the pictures/videos alone, whereas women will play out scenarios in their head, with a story line and FEELINGS. Also, women are bigger consumers of erotic literature and get turned on by that, whereas if you put an erotic story in front of a man, it won't have as big as an effect as the visuals he can watch. Keep in mind though--it's a spectrum, and not an either/or type of deal.

 

Bottom line is this: personality and how a man can make a woman feel are way more important than looks. If you want to test this out yourself, ask random women if they'd date a guy who satisfied their romantic and relational needs, even if he's not necessarily attractive. Ask guys the same question, and you'll get entirely different answers Oh and don't forget, this is a generalization, AND if you ask the question saying the guy is very UGLY, then that id way different then saying he's simply not attractive.

 

As for women ONLY getting emotionally horny--that's a misinterpretation of what I said. Of course woman can be visually stimulated--just not as much as men. Take a guy who's average in the looks/attractiveness department, but he knows how to emotionally take her to places she's never been,and let him copulate with a female. This female will have WAYYYY better sexual relations with him than am above average attractive male who is a dud when it comes to getting her to emotionally respond to him. All females? NO! The majority? Yes.

[Paragon]

Paragon,

 

wow your post was probably one of the best ones! Honestly, I've posted this thread like 2 weeks ago maybe and now, looking back at the whole topic, it dosen't bother me as much anymore! I know that he loves me and ya its a natural reaction men have to look at other women. Sometimes I catch him do it, but instead of feeling overly jealous, I either look away and think of something else, or I just look along but discreetly so he dosen't know I'm looking at the same girl he is lol I just want to take a peak at what hes taking a peak at lol. But when does it go over the line?

 

Dina,

 

I appreciate the words in regards to my post, I hope it helped bring you a deeper understanding of all of this. I am VERY glad you are not being bothered with as much anymore.

 

As for your question of when does it go over the line? Well, your man is in a relationship now, and he is going to need to understand that one of the ways he can make you feel loved, appreciated, self-worthy, self-confident, etc is to NOT do things like constantly ogle other women when you two are out together. This behavior, it can of course be controlled. His RAS (reticular activating system) will shift once in a while causing him to glance, but he can work on controlling it. If you talk with him and tell him IN THE CORRECT WAY (which i'll go into in a moment) it'll increase your chances of getting him to respond appropriately.

 

Most of the time when we talk to our romantic partners, we don't really think things out, or if we do we don't think it out correctly. I am not exactly sure how you've brought this up with him in the past, but here's another way that you might consider going about it. You can tell him how you love feeling appreciated, loved by him, and special to him. One of the ways he can do that is make YOU feel most important, point our YOUR beauty when around each other, AND minimize (not eliminate) his glancing at other girls when around you. You tell him you know it's a natural thing for him, AND you also know he can exercise ENOUGH control over it to be able to make you feel those things which you LOVE feeling for him. You're not asking him to stop or hide it--just simply tone it down a little more, because you love feeling great things from him.

 

People tend to respond to requests better if it's put in a positive way, since no one likes to think they're hurting the one they love. Try this, and you might be able to get him to tone it down ENOUGH for you to be able to minimize the stress/bad feelings it gives you. I hope this helps

[Jersey Shortie]

Men are primarily visual creatures, and are stimulated mainly through their visual senses. Looks and attractiveness fall on the high end of the value spectrum for men.

 

Men drive home that message every chance they get, how visual they are. I don't think it even needs to be reiterated the amount of times it gets reiterated here. Seriously, we get it. We also understand how high on the list attractiveness is to men in value. We undestand that men are visually stimulated and how important it is to a man when evulating the "worth" of a woman to him. That is part of the problem. When your man is responding to another woman in a very man-relating-to-women way, that you yourself admit men highly value. And I don’t think anyone is asking for perfection here but it seems like alot of men today take every advantage they can in the name of being “visual”. We ask women to be the responsiblity heavy-weights and men are allowed to anything they please under the idea that they are "visual". And really, maybe men don't even get how hard it is for women in this day and age, but it is. We don't ever get a break or safe haven. Men are regularly fed and take in over the top-idealist images of women in their homes, go out in public and eye women in skimpy clothes, or use any form of media to self gratfiy themselves.

 

How many women have at some point struggled with their man eyeing other women? How come this thread is such al ong one? Because it IS a tough topic for many people. I am going to say 99.9% at some point or another has been bothered on different levels by it. When a woman comes here asking the same questions that women are going to ask untill the world blows-up, other men to tell HER to control her emotions on it, work on herself. Which clearly, alot of women do, or try hard to do. She is also told to pander what he needs and wants and “just accept it”. When do men work on themselves? What are men doing to recipocate? Why are women the ones expected to “work on themselves’ and men are expected to “ be true to their biological impluses”. It’s not easy for women at all. Especially as you illustrated living in a technology based world where men have consistant access to all kinds of over the top visual imagrey that they by into regularly now-a-days. Women never get a break from all the processing he is apparently doing the second she has her back turned oreven when she doens't. It just seems so disloyal and the antithesis of saying you want a relationship.

 

Guys lamenate very strongly how sexual they are, then the tune changes and it becomes “well he isn’t thinking of her sexually, just noticing objectively she is an attractive women for a second”. Make up your minds! Because I find the messages very confusing. And it’s not fair to play with women’s emotions just because you don't really want a commited relationship at all. What you want is a relationship where the woman is committed but you can strut your feathers being proud that your so 'visual". Which happens time and time again every time a man says “he is visual, and she just needs to understand that”.

 

How many men probably do take home the images of other women with them? While they masturbate? While they might be with their own partners? I am sure some women are forgotten but I am also sure that alot of women aren’t. I don't think the men are being honest about that part of the equation. They don't want to be the bad guys, even if they sort of aren't being exactly good guys.

 

There seems to be a lower expectations for men and asking them to control their desires..base or other wise. A woman controlling her emotional responses is NOT any easier then a man controlling his sexual. It can be just as “unconcious” Yet we ask women all the time to control her emotional responses and when she gets up set we condemn her and call her insecure for responding NATURALLY to something that is BIOLOGICALLY threatening. Why don’t you guys try cutting us gals a break once in a while? It’s not easy living in a world where super models are all over the place, porn is at your man’s finger tips, and women walking around barely dressed are everywhere. It is over-whelming. Especially because there isn't very much today that men deny themselves short of physically sleeping with other women.

 

 

Now back on track, one of the primordial circuits in a man's brain tells him to look for potential mates. This urge gets stronger and stronger and happens more often and eventually becomes a deeply embedded habit/impulse. So when he's out, he's constantly (and mostly UNconsciously) looking at/assessing other women. Is this bad? No. It's the same mechanism by which he is attracted to you.

 

 

It's not bad that men are attracted to women. It's bad when a man says he wants a relationship and then when he gets in one, wants to make it a point about how much he still is on the hunt for other women and how visual he is. Or when he exploits his needs. He is having all the fun in the world. He’s not the one that is the joke. Its the girl standing by his side, while he is valuing and assessing other women, that is the joke. That’s not a good thing at all for a woman in a relationship. It’s a very threatening thing. Because no matter what she does, she obviously can’t win with him. Because no matter what she does, he clearly he is always on the prowl when they go out or even when they don't. Where does that leave her? Leaves her like she is one of his heard, interchangble depending on his visual mood for the day. At the whim of what his fancy is in the moment until it changes for the next new woman..then the next..then the next..then the next. It's unstable. Men are fical and it makes alot of women wonder where she stands in such an easy changable environment he can so easily create. And it’s not like we can go home with him at the end of the day and finally just have it be about the two of you. Because he is probably going to look at porn and repeat the same process privately while he masturbates. It's like you just never get a break.

 

 

He spotted you, and you were labeled attractive. This happens when he's out and about, when he looks at other women. He's constantly appraising their looks. HOWEVER...And this is a big however...This fact means NOTHING. It's simply a description of the internal PRIMORDIAL processes going on in his brain. We are not all primordial urges and wirings.

 

No we are n't all primoridal urges and wirings, however, men put alot of stock in those urges and wirings. How can it mean nothing if before you clearly said: Looks and attractiveness fall on the high end of the value spectrum for men. Is it any wonder women are confused at what the heck men are really saying? Or thinking and doing when they aren't around? On one hand you guys say you want a committed relationship. That you love your woman and respect and value her. Then on the next sentence you say that you need to spread your seed and always be on the hunt when you are actually in a relationship. How is that fair??? And what does that say to the woman you are with? It basically says that what men really want is to have it both ways. But that doens't leave us women exactly in a great spot. Or has any hint of security.

 

 

 

He’s made the conscious choice to date you, so although he may be looking at other women, it doesn’t really mean very much.

 

Sure it does. If it is the same process he used to pick us, then it does mean something. As you said before men highly value beauty and attractiveness and the process that as him checking out other women is the same process that had him attracted to his current woman. That’s the intial step. He made the conscious choice to date a particular woman. But that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t make the same choice to date those other women he is oggling given the opportunity. Or that he isn't thinking about being intimate with them.

 

 

Despite what many people think or say, men ARE capable of simply looking at a girl, being physically attracted to her, and having it end there forgetting about her in the next few seconds.

 

I believe that is true. But lets be honest. Men are also capable of looking a a girl and imaging sex with her, pictureing her naked or taking home the idea of her with him to later masturbate to.

 

 

Is this looking-at-other-women phenomenon a stage, or something that will end if suddenly you transform yourself into the most beautiful woman on the planet? No—it won’t.

 

Translated: No woman is enough of a woman to satsify the men of today's world. He is never happy and complete with what he has.

 

 

YOu know it's funny that we always talk about women's insecurity. While we obviously do have our insecurities, so do men. They just manifest different. A man lets women rule and dictate his worth as a man when he lets a woman make himself feel good as a man. When a man visually takes pleasure in looking at other women or porn, sometimes it's just about the visual..sometiems it's about his own insecurity as a man and needin the consistant re-inforcement.

[Trojan John]

I wonder what this says about my wife who is constantly pointing out attractive men and (mostly) women on the streets.

 

I swear... if she shows me one more décolleté that isn't hers...

 

[harmfulsweetz]

what if thinking about another woman sexually 1 time out of 10, the same number of times you said you look at a man and think sexual thoughts, would that be ok?

 

its almost as if women are saying, "its ok for us since we don't do it as much. and if we happen to get all wet over another guy 1 time out of 10, then we are entitled....whereas you damn men are not!":mad:

Agreed. If a woman can do it and it's natural for her to do it, it's natural and ok for men to do it too. Look but don't touch. Plus, women will never actually know the thoughts of men so how can it hurt them? It doesn't make a jot of difference IMO, the happiest couples are the ones who allow such behaviour and don't think less of themselves for it, provided it stays with looking.

[harmfulsweetz]

Men drive home that message every chance they get, how visual they are. I don't think it even needs to be reiterated the amount of times it gets reiterated here. Seriously, we get it. We also understand how high on the list attractiveness is to men in value. We undestand that men are visually stimulated and how important it is to a man when evulating the "worth" of a woman to him. That is part of the problem. When your man is responding to another woman in a very man-relating-to-women way, that you yourself admit men highly value. And I don’t think anyone is asking for perfection here but it seems like alot of men today take every advantage they can in the name of being “visual”. We ask women to be the responsiblity heavy-weights and men are allowed to anything they please under the idea that they are "visual". And really, maybe men don't even get how hard it is for women in this day and age, but it is. We don't ever get a break or safe haven. Men are regularly fed and take in over the top-idealist images of women in their homes, go out in public and eye women in skimpy clothes, or use any form of media to self gratfiy themselves.

 

How many women have at some point struggled with their man eyeing other women? How come this thread is such al ong one? Because it IS a tough topic for many people. I am going to say 99.9% at some point or another has been bothered on different levels by it. When a woman comes here asking the same questions that women are going to ask untill the world blows-up, other men to tell HER to control her emotions on it, work on herself. Which clearly, alot of women do, or try hard to do. She is also told to pander what he needs and wants and “just accept it”. When do men work on themselves? What are men doing to recipocate? Why are women the ones expected to “work on themselves’ and men are expected to “ be true to their biological impluses”. It’s not easy for women at all. Especially as you illustrated living in a technology based world where men have consistant access to all kinds of over the top visual imagrey that they by into regularly now-a-days. Women never get a break from all the processing he is apparently doing the second she has her back turned oreven when she doens't. It just seems so disloyal and the antithesis of saying you want a relationship.

 

Guys lamenate very strongly how sexual they are, then the tune changes and it becomes “well he isn’t thinking of her sexually, just noticing objectively she is an attractive women for a second”. Make up your minds! Because I find the messages very confusing. And it’s not fair to play with women’s emotions just because you don't really want a commited relationship at all. What you want is a relationship where the woman is committed but you can strut your feathers being proud that your so 'visual". Which happens time and time again every time a man says “he is visual, and she just needs to understand that”.

 

How many men probably do take home the images of other women with them? While they masturbate? While they might be with their own partners? I am sure some women are forgotten but I am also sure that alot of women aren’t. I don't think the men are being honest about that part of the equation. They don't want to be the bad guys, even if they sort of aren't being exactly good guys.

 

There seems to be a lower expectations for men and asking them to control their desires..base or other wise. A woman controlling her emotional responses is NOT any easier then a man controlling his sexual. It can be just as “unconcious” Yet we ask women all the time to control her emotional responses and when she gets up set we condemn her and call her insecure for responding NATURALLY to something that is BIOLOGICALLY threatening. Why don’t you guys try cutting us gals a break once in a while? It’s not easy living in a world where super models are all over the place, porn is at your man’s finger tips, and women walking around barely dressed are everywhere. It is over-whelming. Especially because there isn't very much today that men deny themselves short of physically sleeping with other women.

 

 

 

 

 

It's not bad that men are attracted to women. It's bad when a man says he wants a relationship and then when he gets in one, wants to make it a point about how much he still is on the hunt for other women and how visual he is. Or when he exploits his needs. He is having all the fun in the world. He’s not the one that is the joke. Its the girl standing by his side, while he is valuing and assessing other women, that is the joke. That’s not a good thing at all for a woman in a relationship. It’s a very threatening thing. Because no matter what she does, she obviously can’t win with him. Because no matter what she does, he clearly he is always on the prowl when they go out or even when they don't. Where does that leave her? Leaves her like she is one of his heard, interchangble depending on his visual mood for the day. At the whim of what his fancy is in the moment until it changes for the next new woman..then the next..then the next..then the next. It's unstable. Men are fical and it makes alot of women wonder where she stands in such an easy changable environment he can so easily create. And it’s not like we can go home with him at the end of the day and finally just have it be about the two of you. Because he is probably going to look at porn and repeat the same process privately while he masturbates. It's like you just never get a break.

 

 

 

 

No we are n't all primoridal urges and wirings, however, men put alot of stock in those urges and wirings. How can it mean nothing if before you clearly said: Looks and attractiveness fall on the high end of the value spectrum for men. Is it any wonder women are confused at what the heck men are really saying? Or thinking and doing when they aren't around? On one hand you guys say you want a committed relationship. That you love your woman and respect and value her. Then on the next sentence you say that you need to spread your seed and always be on the hunt when you are actually in a relationship. How is that fair??? And what does that say to the woman you are with? It basically says that what men really want is to have it both ways. But that doens't leave us women exactly in a great spot. Or has any hint of security.

 

 

 

 

 

Sure it does. If it is the same process he used to pick us, then it does mean something. As you said before men highly value beauty and attractiveness and the process that as him checking out other women is the same process that had him attracted to his current woman. That’s the intial step. He made the conscious choice to date a particular woman. But that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t make the same choice to date those other women he is oggling given the opportunity. Or that he isn't thinking about being intimate with them.

 

 

 

 

I believe that is true. But lets be honest. Men are also capable of looking a a girl and imaging sex with her, pictureing her naked or taking home the idea of her with him to later masturbate to.

 

 

 

 

Translated: No woman is enough of a woman to satsify the men of today's world. He is never happy and complete with what he has.

 

 

YOu know it's funny that we always talk about women's insecurity. While we obviously do have our insecurities, so do men. They just manifest different. A man lets women rule and dictate his worth as a man when he lets a woman make himself feel good as a man. When a man visually takes pleasure in looking at other women or porn, sometimes it's just about the visual..sometiems it's about his own insecurity as a man and needin the consistant re-inforcement.

Women are sexual creatures themselves, I look at other men. Freely. So what? Looking didn't actually hurt no one. Someone looking at someone else doesn't actually indicate how committed people are to each other at all. I've seen my bf look before, and I know he is committed to me fully. It's only threatening if you don't value yourself. One, he doesn't know the woman (presumably) he is looking at, 2, he's with you, 3, you look too but want to make out you don't, and all men are evil. I used to have problems, because I had problems within me. I didn't believe any man could seriously value me enough to stay with me, or want me, and so, I reacted badly when I caught him out. Now, I know him more, I know me more, and I accept me, and if he looks, he looks big deal.

 

Aren't you going a bit far with this? I mean, if a man can't look without offending you, making you feel a lesser being, then what else can't he not do? Switch on T.V for fear an attractive woman appears on the screen? Walk down the street? You could blind him you know, then you remove all the issue. Well you don't, and you do. The issue is you, yourself, and your thinking. You're making something which is not at all about you, completely about you. If women actually placed the energy they spend fretting about this, into themselves, and thinking positive thoughts, there would be very little to fret about.

It's not easy, it's not fun. But if we are in the real world, with real men, they will all look at some point, and unless you plan on staying single and becoming a hermit, then learn to deal with it positively. You put a lot more stock on this, then men probably do. The worst thing about humanity? Our overactive imaginations allow us to run wild (not always in a good way) with our thoughts, convuluting (sp?) everything, in the worst way possible.

[Paragon]

Men drive home that message every chance they get, how visual they are. I don't think it even needs to be reiterated the amount of times it gets reiterated here. Seriously, we get it. We also understand how high on the list attractiveness is to men in value. We undestand that men are visually stimulated and how important it is to a man when evulating the "worth" of a woman to him. That is part of the problem. When your man is responding to another woman in a very man-relating-to-women way, that you yourself admit men highly value. And I don’t think anyone is asking for perfection here but it seems like alot of men today take every advantage they can in the name of being “visual”. We ask women to be the responsiblity heavy-weights and men are allowed to anything they please under the idea that they are "visual". And really, maybe men don't even get how hard it is for women in this day and age, but it is. We don't ever get a break or safe haven. Men are regularly fed and take in over the top-idealist images of women in their homes, go out in public and eye women in skimpy clothes, or use any form of media to self gratfiy themselves.

 

How many women have at some point struggled with their man eyeing other women? How come this thread is such al ong one? Because it IS a tough topic for many people. I am going to say 99.9% at some point or another has been bothered on different levels by it. When a woman comes here asking the same questions that women are going to ask untill the world blows-up, other men to tell HER to control her emotions on it, work on herself. Which clearly, alot of women do, or try hard to do. She is also told to pander what he needs and wants and “just accept it”. When do men work on themselves? What are men doing to recipocate? Why are women the ones expected to “work on themselves’ and men are expected to “ be true to their biological impluses”. It’s not easy for women at all. Especially as you illustrated living in a technology based world where men have consistant access to all kinds of over the top visual imagrey that they by into regularly now-a-days. Women never get a break from all the processing he is apparently doing the second she has her back turned oreven when she doens't. It just seems so disloyal and the antithesis of saying you want a relationship.

 

Guys lamenate very strongly how sexual they are, then the tune changes and it becomes “well he isn’t thinking of her sexually, just noticing objectively she is an attractive women for a second”. Make up your minds! Because I find the messages very confusing. And it’s not fair to play with women’s emotions just because you don't really want a commited relationship at all. What you want is a relationship where the woman is committed but you can strut your feathers being proud that your so 'visual". Which happens time and time again every time a man says “he is visual, and she just needs to understand that”.

 

How many men probably do take home the images of other women with them? While they masturbate? While they might be with their own partners? I am sure some women are forgotten but I am also sure that alot of women aren’t. I don't think the men are being honest about that part of the equation. They don't want to be the bad guys, even if they sort of aren't being exactly good guys.

 

There seems to be a lower expectations for men and asking them to control their desires..base or other wise. A woman controlling her emotional responses is NOT any easier then a man controlling his sexual. It can be just as “unconcious” Yet we ask women all the time to control her emotional responses and when she gets up set we condemn her and call her insecure for responding NATURALLY to something that is BIOLOGICALLY threatening. Why don’t you guys try cutting us gals a break once in a while? It’s not easy living in a world where super models are all over the place, porn is at your man’s finger tips, and women walking around barely dressed are everywhere. It is over-whelming. Especially because there isn't very much today that men deny themselves short of physically sleeping with other women.

 

 

 

 

 

It's not bad that men are attracted to women. It's bad when a man says he wants a relationship and then when he gets in one, wants to make it a point about how much he still is on the hunt for other women and how visual he is. Or when he exploits his needs. He is having all the fun in the world. He’s not the one that is the joke. Its the girl standing by his side, while he is valuing and assessing other women, that is the joke. That’s not a good thing at all for a woman in a relationship. It’s a very threatening thing. Because no matter what she does, she obviously can’t win with him. Because no matter what she does, he clearly he is always on the prowl when they go out or even when they don't. Where does that leave her? Leaves her like she is one of his heard, interchangble depending on his visual mood for the day. At the whim of what his fancy is in the moment until it changes for the next new woman..then the next..then the next..then the next. It's unstable. Men are fical and it makes alot of women wonder where she stands in such an easy changable environment he can so easily create. And it’s not like we can go home with him at the end of the day and finally just have it be about the two of you. Because he is probably going to look at porn and repeat the same process privately while he masturbates. It's like you just never get a break.

 

 

 

 

No we are n't all primoridal urges and wirings, however, men put alot of stock in those urges and wirings. How can it mean nothing if before you clearly said: Looks and attractiveness fall on the high end of the value spectrum for men. Is it any wonder women are confused at what the heck men are really saying? Or thinking and doing when they aren't around? On one hand you guys say you want a committed relationship. That you love your woman and respect and value her. Then on the next sentence you say that you need to spread your seed and always be on the hunt when you are actually in a relationship. How is that fair??? And what does that say to the woman you are with? It basically says that what men really want is to have it both ways. But that doens't leave us women exactly in a great spot. Or has any hint of security.

 

 

 

 

 

Sure it does. If it is the same process he used to pick us, then it does mean something. As you said before men highly value beauty and attractiveness and the process that as him checking out other women is the same process that had him attracted to his current woman. That’s the intial step. He made the conscious choice to date a particular woman. But that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t make the same choice to date those other women he is oggling given the opportunity. Or that he isn't thinking about being intimate with them.

 

 

 

 

I believe that is true. But lets be honest. Men are also capable of looking a a girl and imaging sex with her, pictureing her naked or taking home the idea of her with him to later masturbate to.

 

 

 

 

Translated: No woman is enough of a woman to satsify the men of today's world. He is never happy and complete with what he has.

 

 

YOu know it's funny that we always talk about women's insecurity. While we obviously do have our insecurities, so do men. They just manifest different. A man lets women rule and dictate his worth as a man when he lets a woman make himself feel good as a man. When a man visually takes pleasure in looking at other women or porn, sometimes it's just about the visual..sometiems it's about his own insecurity as a man and needin the consistant re-inforcement.

 

Jersey Shortie,

 

There are a lot of off base claims and assumptions in your above post and your words carry a lot of emotional baggage with them. You are relating and trying to understand the world through a negative frame--and you are forgetting the map is not the territor. I don't have the time right now, but later on today when I arrive home I will address this is much more detail.

[Jersey Shortie]

Aren't you going a bit far with this? I mean, if a man can't look without offending you, making you feel a lesser being, then what else can't he not do? Switch on T.V ...

 

*scratches head* did you read my post? Did I say a man can never look? No. I said that I wished men used more self control and didn't define their masculinity by how many women they could or wanted to look at. I am sorry but the issue is not just *me* or the other women bothered by it. Male insecurity manifests itself in different ways. Looking and seeking consistant female validation and always having to define being a man by how many women you can oggle is not male confidence. I think I bring up man ygood points. Who said anything about blinding someone? Talk about extreme. if MEN actually placed energy into paying attention to what they have, instead of paying attention to what they don't, they would probably be having more intimate relationships with better sex.

 

 

 

It's not easy, it's not fun. But if we are in the real world, with real men, they will all look at some point, and unless you plan on staying single and becoming a hermit, then learn to deal with it positively. You put a lot more stock on this, then men probably do. The worst thing about humanity? Our overactive imaginations allow us to run wild (not always in a good way) with our thoughts, convuluting (sp?) everything, in the worst way possible.

 

The worse thing about humanity is selfisness and lack of control. Not overactive imaginatsion.

 

But let me get this straight, it's okay if men don't control their natural reactions but women should control theirs when in response to his actions. Thats your basic message.

 

I make no bones that women need to work on themselves. But so do men. And telling women that they need to do x,y and z and never holding men up to the same responsiblity and telling them they can pander to their desires, completely wrong.

[Jersey Shortie]

Jersey Shortie,

 

There are a lot of off base claims and assumptions in your above post and your words carry a lot of emotional baggage with them. You are relating and trying to understand the world through a negative frame--and you are forgetting the map is not the territor. I don't have the time right now, but later on today when I arrive home I will address this is much more detail.

Paragon, there are alot of base claims in your post! And I have basically stated many of the things you have. Yes, my points are more dark. But no less realistic or honest. Pretending that men don't do certain things is unrealistic.

[Dexter Morgan]

Agreed. If a woman can do it and it's natural for her to do it, it's natural and ok for men to do it too. Look but don't touch. Plus, women will never actually know the thoughts of men so how can it hurt them? It doesn't make a jot of difference IMO, the happiest couples are the ones who allow such behaviour and don't think less of themselves for it, provided it stays with looking.

 

and in agreement right back at ya. look, but don't break your neck in front of your significant other. have some respect for the person you are with. look, dont touch, and no flirting...cuz thats how it starts.

[AAlike]

AAlike,

How much experience do you have dealing with people and women on a romantic basis or even interacting with them on their deepest and innermost levels? If it's anything more than "a little" you will be hard pressed to back up your own above words.

 

I see. and your qualifications stem from where?

 

Some of the viewpoints I expressed are indeed generalizations--this is a forum and I couldn't possibly go into all of the extreme detail that a question like this would have in it's answer, so I try to be as cogent and concise as possible. However, you must keep in mind that those generalizations will apply to about %80-90 of people--a lot, but not all.

 

I have no problem with a generalization as long as it's accurate. As I said before, I agreed with most of your original post - it was hardly groundbreaking material.

 

Now, as for women caring about looks as much as guys--THAT is simply wrong. %80-90 of women will still date, mate, marry, or have some kind of romantic relationship with a guy they do NOT find physically attractive simply because of how me emotionally stimulates her

 

you don't really believe this do you?? I would be VERY interested to know how you arrived at this stat.

[Trialbyfire]

Shealth your claws Trial. And try reading my posts. I said that I DO control my feelings when I notice my guy looking at another woman. I said that it WASN'T fair to explode all over him for it. But it's not fair either for men to sit there and say that it's okay to look because that is "natural" but a woman getting upset over the looking isn't or she is *just* insecures when she has a good reason to question what is running through his head. This isn't about insecurities or not insecurities. I never said I didn't have any and never pretended that they couldn't be worked on. That doesn't make what I say any less valid or true. I don't ask perfection from men either. But I hate this mentality that "I'm a guy and it's okay if I do this". That's not fair. I don't excuse my crappy behavior because I am a woman and you never ONCE have seen me do that here. Funny that we expect women to control their emotional responses but we don't expect men to contronl their sexual responses.

Oh, so you look and can "control" your thoughts of wanting to jump their bones but you believe that most men can't control their thoughts? Admiring someone from a distance for all of 10 seconds doesn't necessarily equate to wanking off. Come on, even you can figure that one out.

 

I really should bash you for even having lustful thoughts outside of relationships. How can any man trust you if you have these lustful thoughts?

[Duckie3]

Ok So yesterday I went boating with my boyfriend and friends. One girl was wearing quite the string Bikini and basically was naked. later that night when I was with my boyfriend I asked him what honestly goes through his head when he sees a girl like that... I expected him to say yeah she's attractive she has a nice body nice boobs... I get that men look but instead his response was " honestly I looked quited a few times, thought about how nice they would be to touch and How I wanted to touch them" This hurt me a lot because I thought I was the only one he thought about Touching... this fact made me feel special and bonded with him and now that I know that he thinks about touching other women I feel less special to him. Even though he assures me I am the one he loves and wants to be with it still hurts and I don't know if I am just WAY over reacting or if this is something we need to work out.... PLEASE any advice would be appriciated.

[carhill]

I think he should work a bit on being appropriately honest. If he's not careful, he'll be working on that alone