Why do men look at other women?!

[GorillaTheater]

I think he should work a bit on being appropriately honest. If he's not careful, he'll be working on that alone

 

Ah yes, the not infrequent decision-making process one goes through when asked "what do you honestly think".

[Thaddeus]

I think he should work a bit on being appropriately honest. If he's not careful, he'll be working on that alone

 

Ah yes, the not infrequent decision-making process one goes through when asked "what do you honestly think".

Yea, there's a world of difference between what one thinks and what one should say when asked the question, "So what do you really think?"

 

Funny how so many people insist that their partner be completely honest, then they get all bent out of shape when their partner is completely honest.

[carhill]

"She seemed like a lovely young lady but this (grabs ass) is who I want next to me every night"

 

Honest and appropriate

[Duckie3]

"She seemed like a lovely young lady but this (grabs ass) is who I want next to me every night"

 

Honest and appropriate

 

 

haha yes carhill that response would have made me smile. laugh a little and give him a kiss. Very different than the hurt I felt. But if he doesn't completely tell me the truth am I living in a fantasy world? or is it really just best for me not to know the WHOLE truth of what a man thinks... I just don't want to be with a pervert or someone who would eventually act on those thoughts I guess thats why i ask for honesty... SO I guess what I am asking is do ALL guys think this way is it normal...? should guys be able to have a little self control... or is that just too much to ask...?

[Paragon]

Men drive home that message every chance they get, how visual they are. I don't think it even needs to be reiterated the amount of times it gets reiterated here. Seriously, we get it. We also understand how high on the list attractiveness is to men in value. We undestand that men are visually stimulated and how important it is to a man when evulating the "worth" of a woman to him. That is part of the problem.

 

Bingo, right there--that's not right. If a man is EVALUATING a woman's WORTH based on her looks, then he is wrong and his evaluations and mindsets will do WAY more harm than good. Worth is comprised of a LOT more than just physical attractiveness.

 

When your man is responding to another woman in a very man-relating-to-women way, that you yourself admit men highly value. And I don’t think anyone is asking for perfection here but it seems like alot of men today take every advantage they can in the name of being “visual”. We ask women to be the responsiblity heavy-weights and men are allowed to anything they please under the idea that they are "visual". And really, maybe men don't even get how hard it is for women in this day and age, but it is. We don't ever get a break or safe haven. Men are regularly fed and take in over the top-idealist images of women in their homes, go out in public and eye women in skimpy clothes, or use any form of media to self gratfiy themselves.

 

How many women have at some point struggled with their man eyeing other women? How come this thread is such al ong one? Because it IS a tough topic for many people. I am going to say 99.9% at some point or another has been bothered on different levels by it. When a woman comes here asking the same questions that women are going to ask untill the world blows-up, other men to tell HER to control her emotions on it, work on herself. Which clearly, alot of women do, or try hard to do. She is also told to pander what he needs and wants and “just accept it”. When do men work on themselves? What are men doing to recipocate? Why are women the ones expected to “work on themselves’ and men are expected to “ be true to their biological impluses”. It’s not easy for women at all.

 

You find in my post where I said that she needs to change something about herself or control her own emotions. I said nothing of the sort. The topic wasn't about how men should change, it was about their actions. My post merely was meant to address these actions and help Dina understand them on a deeper level. You're asking 3 questions in a row that have NOTHING to do with what my post was about, and you're making judgements on something that you think i'm trying to say. Women are NOT expected to work on themselves or control their emotions while men do nothing about their impulses. Any man who thinks this is not a genuine man. If you know my personally philosphies (which you would have no idea of at this point in time yet) you wouldn't be saying these aforementioned things. However this isn't the time for me to stand here and rant on MY personal philosophies--this is a post about a woman's concern on a particular subject. I want to try and keep it centered around that without injecting tangential paragraphs into this.

 

Especially as you illustrated living in a technology based world where men have consistant access to all kinds of over the top visual imagrey that they by into regularly now-a-days. Women never get a break from all the processing he is apparently doing the second she has her back turned oreven when she doens't. It just seems so disloyal and the antithesis of saying you want a relationship.

 

Guys lamenate very strongly how sexual they are, then the tune changes and it becomes “well he isn’t thinking of her sexually, just noticing objectively she is an attractive women for a second”. Make up your minds! Because I find the messages very confusing. And it’s not fair to play with women’s emotions just because you don't really want a commited relationship at all. What you want is a relationship where the woman is committed but you can strut your feathers being proud that your so 'visual". Which happens time and time again every time a man says “he is visual, and she just needs to understand that”.

 

Your past and assumptions are bleeding all over your assertions. These generalizations are the harmful kind which perpetuate stereotypes. The generalizations I outlined in my post are based on RESEARCH, EXPERIENCE, WORK, RELATIONSHIPS, etc. You need to be careful before you make these claims because your generalizing YOUR reality and trying to make it THE REALITY--that's dangerous.

 

How many men probably do take home the images of other women with them? While they masturbate? While they might be with their own partners? I am sure some women are forgotten but I am also sure that alot of women aren’t. I don't think the men are being honest about that part of the equation. They don't want to be the bad guys, even if they sort of aren't being exactly good guys.

 

There seems to be a lower expectations for men and asking them to control their desires..base or other wise. A woman controlling her emotional responses is NOT any easier then a man controlling his sexual. It can be just as “unconcious” Yet we ask women all the time to control her emotional responses and when she gets up set we condemn her and call her insecure for responding NATURALLY to something that is BIOLOGICALLY threatening. Why don’t you guys try cutting us gals a break once in a while? It’s not easy living in a world where super models are all over the place, porn is at your man’s finger tips, and women walking around barely dressed are everywhere. It is over-whelming. Especially because there isn't very much today that men deny themselves short of physically sleeping with other women.

 

I agree with you here HOWEVER, nowhere am i saying men shouldn't or don't need to work on anything at all. Read my second post to Dina offering her a solution to the problem--it's entirely contingent upon the MAN in the relationship. Women respond to how things make them feel, and if a woman is feeling something, if that guy says 'deal with it' he is wrong--MOST OF THE TIME.

 

It's not bad that men are attracted to women. It's bad when a man says he wants a relationship and then when he gets in one, wants to make it a point about how much he still is on the hunt for other women and how visual he is. Or when he exploits his needs. He is having all the fun in the world. He’s not the one that is the joke. Its the girl standing by his side, while he is valuing and assessing other women, that is the joke. That’s not a good thing at all for a woman in a relationship. It’s a very threatening thing. Because no matter what she does, she obviously can’t win with him. Because no matter what she does, he clearly he is always on the prowl when they go out or even when they don't. Where does that leave her? Leaves her like she is one of his heard, interchangble depending on his visual mood for the day. At the whim of what his fancy is in the moment until it changes for the next new woman..then the next..then the next..then the next. It's unstable. Men are fical and it makes alot of women wonder where she stands in such an easy changable environment he can so easily create. And it’s not like we can go home with him at the end of the day and finally just have it be about the two of you. Because he is probably going to look at porn and repeat the same process privately while he masturbates. It's like you just never get a break.

 

The men you are talking about are not men--simple as that. Not to mention these are the same dangerous generalizations you are making and espousing them as truth. The map is not the territory. I understand you have been hurt and obviously have seen a lot of things, but that does not mean when you come out the other side your thoughts and assertions are going to be any more true than they previously were.

 

No we are n't all primoridal urges and wirings, however, men put alot of stock in those urges and wirings. How can it mean nothing if before you clearly said: Looks and attractiveness fall on the high end of the value spectrum for men. Is it any wonder women are confused at what the heck men are really saying? Or thinking and doing when they aren't around? On one hand you guys say you want a committed relationship. That you love your woman and respect and value her. Then on the next sentence you say that you need to spread your seed and always be on the hunt when you are actually in a relationship. How is that fair??? And what does that say to the woman you are with? It basically says that what men really want is to have it both ways. But that doens't leave us women exactly in a great spot. Or has any hint of security.

 

It's a statement--it's means nothing. It's simply describing how things are. What does it mean? It means what it means. Secondly, who is the "YOU" that you're constantly referring to? It guys in general. That's fine--ignorant but fine, but I draw the line when you are trying to include me in that stereotype especially when you're quoting my post. My post said NONE of the things you mentioned above.

 

Sure it does. If it is the same process he used to pick us, then it does mean something. As you said before men highly value beauty and attractiveness and the process that as him checking out other women is the same process that had him attracted to his current woman. That’s the intial step. He made the conscious choice to date a particular woman. But that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t make the same choice to date those other women he is oggling given the opportunity. Or that he isn't thinking about being intimate with them.

 

See where that mindset gets you...

 

Translated: No woman is enough of a woman to satsify the men of today's world. He is never happy and complete with what he has.

 

You translated my words--they don't need translation. That's an INFERENCE, or more correctly, a MISinterpretation of what I said.

[Paragon]

I see. and your qualifications stem from where?

 

I have no problem with a generalization as long as it's accurate. As I said before, I agreed with most of your original post - it was hardly groundbreaking material.

 

you don't really believe this do you?? I would be VERY interested to know how you arrived at this stat.

 

My qualifications stem from LIFE, EXPERIENCE, DEGREES, RESEARCH, WORK, RELATIONSHIPS, etc....

 

As for really believing what I said in that one paragraph? OF COURSE I do You can sit at the computer all day and argue with me about how it's counter-intuitive in your reality, but i challenge you to go out and ask random women about this. Really talk with them, listen to them, meet people, see what women are really after. And then start observing couples and ask them why they fell for each other and why they're with each other. Ask them that question I posed to you, and you'll see the results.

[deux ex machina]

As a courtesy, I'd like to inform everyone in this thread that I am picturing you naked.

 

 

!

[carhill]

But if he doesn't completely tell me the truth am I living in a fantasy world?

Here ya go.... my wife (stbx) is overweight, perhaps 50 lbs over healthy. She would often ask "How do I look in these/this" (levis/dress/etc). I'd respond honestly "Hon, you look really hot in that (if I thought the outfit fit her really well) or, if not, "Hon, I like it, but I think we can try something else that will flatter you even more". Naked honest might have been "Your ass looks fat in that but hey more cushion is better pushin'".

 

See the difference? Honesty comes in many forms. I knew she was sensitive about her weight and appearance so I supported her, even after I lost the 'in love' part, which had nothing to do with her appearance. I believe that is basic human respect and acknowledgment of her dignity.

 

Then again, I didn't ogle other women while I was with her, either. IMO, that behavior is something you either accept or not, and deal with the fallout. I told you how I would handle it, if I had that type of personality and wanted to remain in the relationship

[Duckie3]

Thank you carhill, you have helped a very confused 21 year old girl. I feel much better now and I think I know how to deal with this and how to better talk to my boyfriend and understand him better in honesty situations.

[harmfulsweetz]

*scratches head* did you read my post? Did I say a man can never look? No. I said that I wished men used more self control and didn't define their masculinity by how many women they could or wanted to look at. I am sorry but the issue is not just *me* or the other women bothered by it. Male insecurity manifests itself in different ways. Looking and seeking consistant female validation and always having to define being a man by how many women you can oggle is not male confidence. I think I bring up man ygood points. Who said anything about blinding someone? Talk about extreme. if MEN actually placed energy into paying attention to what they have, instead of paying attention to what they don't, they would probably be having more intimate relationships with better sex.

 

 

 

 

 

The worse thing about humanity is selfisness and lack of control. Not overactive imaginatsion.

 

But let me get this straight, it's okay if men don't control their natural reactions but women should control theirs when in response to his actions. Thats your basic message.

 

I make no bones that women need to work on themselves. But so do men. And telling women that they need to do x,y and z and never holding men up to the same responsiblity and telling them they can pander to their desires, completely wrong.

No that's not my message at all. My message is that if women did indeed place more value on their emotional bond with their man, understanding that he is with them, not the other woman he's happens to notice, (course breaking your neck to look is wrong, and demeaning etc) they would see the bigger picture. I don't actually know any man who thinks like you think they think. Men don't actually think like that, oh look there's someone better...well some do, but by large not most. Most just appreciate a good looking woman, as do many women with men. What's so bad?

You actually don't seem to have a clue how the male psyche works, or any human psyche, we are all visually stimulated, there's of course a line when that stimulation should stop, but it's there. It's nature, and if you can't accept it, accept yourself, your own importance in your relationship you're either in the wrong R, or completely in conflict with yourself. Are men telling you these demeaning thoughts? No, bet they aren't. You are, you are instantly putting yourself into the disposable pile by thinking it's all about looks. If it were, all the good looking women (i.e Jennifer Aniston) would be paired off long ago. It's about connection, mental, physical, emotional etc. If you weren't attractive to him, he wouldn't have done more than look would he?

[You'reasian]

So, this always seems to be the big topic that gets a lot of girls fighting back, and something to be always jealous about. I had a talk with my boyfriend tonight. I always used to ask him if he would look at other girls, and he would deny it and swear that he wasn't lying. Until he finally confessed it today. He said the reason why he didn't want to admit that he does that is because he was scared of my reaction, when really it hurt just as much when he lied to me for so long about it, and told just confessed it to me now. But deep down, I kinda knew all along that he would now and again look at some "hot" chick walking by, or "going in his field of vision" as he calls it. I told him how it makes me feel, and he said that all guys do it, and sometimes we CANT control it. I know he still loves me, but it makes me feel like a piece of **** when I catch him do it. I feel like "well what does she have that I dont have?" or "is he looking at her ass or whatever because mines not good enough?" It always seems to bring me down. For example, today we went to wonderland, and we went to the water park, and of course, there's good looking girls with nice bodies and pierced belly buttons or whatever, and I knew in my gut that whenever there was a nice looking girl he would take a little peak. I mean, I do get over it, but it lags on for a while and I keep thinking to myself, "well work out more, maybe he wouldnt have to look at other girls" Is that really the case? Do they look because perhaps you have to work on yourself? Do they look because its just instinct? Do they look to make us jealous? Is it all the above?

 

I would really like to just get over it, and not let it bug me as much as it does. Girls, women? what do you do when this has happend to you? And hey, if there are any guys on this forum, please put your input!

 

Men look at other women for the same reasons that women look at other men - attraction. Its not really an issue for me, so when a woman I'm seeing kinda looks at another guy I kind of laugh, but when the reverse happens, boy you women get visciously jealous

[Miad's Princess]

I had a question a random one really about this topic, but since duckie's post I now have two.

 

Firstly why do you think that men ended up being the more visual of the sexes and not women?

 

and the second one.....Duckie mentioned that her boyfriend gave her an honest answer to her question about the girl on the trip, now I agree that maybe he shouldn't have been so honest as such......

 

but the question I have is do you think it is right when men (or women) actually think these thoughts not just she looks hot but I would love to touch her/him or wonder what xyz feels like (when they already have a partner)

 

isn't this pushing things too far whether we know about it or not??

[sweetjasmine]

and the second one.....Duckie mentioned that her boyfriend gave her an honest answer to her question about the girl on the trip, now I agree that maybe he shouldn't have been so honest as such......

 

but the question I have is do you think it is right when men (or women) actually think these thoughts not just she looks hot but I would love to touch her/him or wonder what xyz feels like (when they already have a partner)

 

isn't this pushing things too far whether we know about it or not??

 

TBH, it'd make me uncomfortable.

[harmfulsweetz]

I had a question a random one really about this topic, but since duckie's post I now have two.

 

Firstly why do you think that men ended up being the more visual of the sexes and not women?

 

and the second one.....Duckie mentioned that her boyfriend gave her an honest answer to her question about the girl on the trip, now I agree that maybe he shouldn't have been so honest as such......

 

but the question I have is do you think it is right when men (or women) actually think these thoughts not just she looks hot but I would love to touch her/him or wonder what xyz feels like (when they already have a partner)

 

isn't this pushing things too far whether we know about it or not??

Granted, he shouldn't have divulged that thought, not at all. There's honest, then there's mindnumbingly dumb honest, his answer should have been appropriate to what he would expect her to think.

 

I don't necessarily buy into the fact that men are more visual than women, just more open about it whereas women are more open about their emotions than men. I'm probably just as visual as my bf, but it would take more to keep me interested in a person than their looks, and I think the same goes for men. Looks fade with time, only our personalities stay the same, and if you don't have one, well, you're in trouble.

[Jersey Shortie]

Oh, so you look and can "control" your thoughts of wanting to jump their bones but you believe that most men can't control their thoughts? Admiring someone from a distance for all of 10 seconds doesn't necessarily equate to wanking off. Come on, even you can figure that one out. 

 

I really should bash you for even having lustful thoughts outside of relationships. How can any man trust you if you have these lustful thoughts?

 

Did you really read my posts or did you just make the assumptions you wanted to make because of some difficult and negative things I have said?

 

When I am with a guy, I don't entertain every little sexual thought about other men. I am not so sure that is the case for men. I am more happy to be with *him* in real life then in my head in fantasy mode. Again, I am not convinced that men aren't happy with both facets. Did I say men should never ever look? No. I said that I wished men used more self control instead of using every chance they can to sneak a peek. Do I think every man that looks at a woman is using her to masturbate? No, not every. Do I think more men DO masturbate to other women they see and tell their women they only looked at her and forgot her then is really true? Yes, I do. Do I think this makes men feel proud of themselves for managing to both be able to keep masturbating to other women and making their women view them in a way that isn't really fully true? Yes a little, I think that's the cold truth.

 

I don't ask men be perfect. I ask for more self control. I don't see alot of men that make me want to jump their bones. So I liken my ability to control my more ugly emotions to his ability to control is more ugly hormone driven ones as well.

 

And I am not bashing having "lustful"thoughts. I am trying to figure out the way men handle it, what they tell their woman and how they *really* feel. I don't think men are even honest about it alot of the times because they fear hurting their woman. But just because they might fear hurting her, if they are lying to her, they are still hurting her. He just doens't have to deal with any real human emotion.

 

 

 

 

I expected him to say yeah she's attractive she has a nice body nice boobs... I get that men look but instead his response was " honestly I looked quited a few times, thought about how nice they would be to touch and How I wanted to touch them" This hurt me a lot because I thought I was the only one he thought about Touching... this fact made me feel special and bonded with him and now that I know that he thinks about touching other women I feel less special to him. Even though he assures me I am the one he loves and wants to be with it still hurts and I don't know if I am just WAY over reacting or if this is something we need to work out.... PLEASE any advice would be appriciated.

 

Despite what people think about me, this stuff makes my heart hurt because I DO love men but I don't get the impression that men respect women very much. Not only is what this person said is true about how women can feel, I think alot of women end up feeling like they are a bit of a "joke". Here her own man is entertainingideas of other women, where does that leave her/us women? And I think sadly, this is probably the truth more times then men want to admit to their partners. That they are thinking about these women on more terms then just looking and forgetting. And then men tell us that they are just looking and forgetting and it makes us out to be even more of a joke because he holds the power and the truth and might as well be laughing about or navieness behind our backs. And maybe men aren't "laughing" physically so much. But there is a certain level of pulling the wool over your eyes to get your way while making your partner feel like she isgetting her needs met when the truth is it's fake.

[Jersey Shortie]

No that's not my message at all. My message is that if women did indeed place more value on their emotional bond with their man, understanding that he is with them....

 

And my message is that while he is with her, it is still a real and natural threat to her emotional bond with her man when he is taking in and noticing other women on a completely masculine/feminine way.

 

 

 

.... not the other woman he's happens to notice, (course breaking your neck to look is wrong, and demeaning etc) they would see the bigger picture.

 

But I hope that men can also see the bigger picture. And that the 10 second look doesn't outweight making your gf wonder what is going on in their relationship. That applies both ways.

 

 

 

I don't actually know any man who thinks like you think they think. Men don't actually think like that, oh look there's someone better...well some do, but by large not most. Most just appreciate a good looking woman, as do many women with men. What's so bad?

 

Because I am not convinced that every man experiences the situation as you describe. I think alot of men do think about the woman , her body, what it would be like to touch her, pretending to have sex with her..so on.

 

You actually don't seem to have a clue how the male psyche works, or any human psyche, we are all visually stimulated, there's of course a line when that stimulation should stop, but it's there

.

 

I have an excellent viewpoint about how the human psyche works. That is why I question the comments that a man is only looking at a woman for a few seconds and is having no othe sexual thoughts about her. And you wouldn't be trying to disprove what I say so hard if you really believed I didn't.

 

 

It's nature, and if you can't accept it, accept yourself, your own importance in your relationship you're either in the wrong R, or completely in conflict with yourself

.

 

I agree it's nature. I never said otherwise. HOWEVER, it is also nature for a woman to get upset at her man noticing other women.

 

Are men telling you these demeaning thoughts? No, bet they aren't.

 

But you admit they are demeaning.

 

You are, you are instantly putting yourself into the disposable pile by thinking it's all about looks. If it were, all the good looking women (i.e Jennifer Aniston) would be paired off long ago. It's about connection, mental, physical, emotional etc. If you weren't attractive to him, he wouldn't have done more than look would he?

 

This isn't about questioning his attraction to me. It's about questioning how many more women he needs to self gratify himself. I know it's not all about the physical but the physical is clearly very strong and important influence over men. How is it that you can lecture me on not eing worried about the physical and in the same paragraph defend how men respond to the physical?

[Jersey Shortie]

Bingo, right there--that's not right. If a man is EVALUATING a woman's WORTH based on her looks, then he is wrong and his evaluations and mindsets will do WAY more harm than good. Worth is comprised of a LOT more than just physical attractiveness.

 

 

Of coures it is but that doesn't really matter when a man is oggling another woman! And you yourself said it is such a high value for men. And it is. I don't like how we justify that a man can look at other women because she is so hot but we tel women to not respond to it for the same reason. When your man is looking and basically is interested in another woman, nobody, him included is exactly thinking about all the other good things that make you who you are.

 

 

 

You're asking 3 questions in a row that have NOTHING to do with what my post was about

 

I asked those questions to help address the points being made in the conversation.

 

 

 

Women are NOT expected to work on themselves or control their emotions while men do nothing about their impulses. Any man who thinks this is not a genuine man.

 

Maybe that isn't how you feel, but that is the message that is given often on this subject. She is to control herself and emotions but he is allowed to act on his impulses.

 

 

Your past and assumptions are bleeding all over your assertions. These generalizations are the harmful kind which perpetuate stereotypes. The generalizations I outlined in my post are based on RESEARCH, EXPERIENCE, WORK, RELATIONSHIPS, etc. You need to be careful before you make these claims because your generalizing YOUR reality and trying to make it THE REALITY--that's dangerous.

 

Everyone's past and assumptions bleed into their personal assertions. I don't understand how you can defend your generalizations and perscute me for mine. My points are not so far fetched and untrue to nature and life experience. You did nothing to address the realistic comments I made and instead choose to unfoundly personally attack me for something you don't even know.

 

 

The men you are talking about are not men--simple as that. Not to mention these are the same dangerous generalizations you are making and espousing them as truth. The map is not the territory. I understand you have been hurt and obviously have seen a lot of things, but that does not mean when you come out the other side your thoughts and assertions are going to be any more true than they previously were.

 

Some of the things realistcally are the truth. Not the pretty truth and not what men want women to think of them ass but still the truth in more cases then I think even you realistically want to admit to. You rather take this time to make personal attacks on things you have no clue about then to directly address the points, whether you agree with them or not. If you really didn't see any truth in what I was saying, you would be able to comment in disagreement to the comments I made. Instead you rather make personal judgements on me. Just because you say "that's not true", without any real value behind your words..doesn't mean that it isnt.

 

 

It's a statement--it's means nothing. It's simply describing how things are. What does it mean? It means what it means. Secondly, who is the "YOU" that you're constantly referring to? It guys in general. That's fine--ignorant but fine, but I draw the line when you are trying to include me in that stereotype especially when you're quoting my post. My post said NONE of the things you mentioned above.

 

It's a general "you" but your response is more unclear then ever. YOu failed to directly address the real commentary that you qouted.

[Trialbyfire]

Did you really read my posts or did you just make the assumptions you wanted to make because of some difficult and negative things I have said?

I'm just giving you a little back what it's like to have a discussion with you. People express reasonable and realistic points to you and you go off on your normal rant.

[Paragon]

Of coures it is but that doesn't really matter when a man is oggling another woman! And you yourself said it is such a high value for men. And it is. I don't like how we justify that a man can look at other women because she is so hot but we tel women to not respond to it for the same reason. When your man is looking and basically is interested in another woman, nobody, him included is exactly thinking about all the other good things that make you who you are.

 

First bold quote: who's we? This conversation is useless if you want to stay on the level and address what INGENUINE men do. Some do that, but that's not the concern in this thread. No one told her not to respond to it. If you REALLY want to get into it, jealousy is a very positive thing and women should respond! But like I said--not the main topic in this thread.

 

Second bold quote: thats YOUR interpretation of what's going on in his head. It amazes me, especially in your previous posts in this thread how you claim to be inside the mind of not a particluar man, but all men! Just because a man is looking at her doesn't mean he's BASICALLY interested in her. It could mean he's attractive to her, it could mean he's thinking about how beautiful she is, it could mean he wants to have sexual relations with her, it could mean he was just objectively looking. It could mean a lot of things, but i'm not sure why you always want to say you know what men are thinking...

 

Maybe that isn't how you feel, but that is the message that is given often on this subject. She is to control herself and emotions but he is allowed to act on his impulses.

 

Who cares what the message of INGENUINE MEN is!?! People who send that message are not worth entertaining, hence I am not addressing it. You keep trying to hammer home how men keep saying this. How is that helping and furthering our conversation? What is your point?

 

Everyone's past and assumptions bleed into their personal assertions. I don't understand how you can defend your generalizations and perscute me for mine. My points are not so far fetched and untrue to nature and life experience. You did nothing to address the realistic comments I made and instead choose to unfoundly personally attack me for something you don't even know.

 

I explained to you the difference between my generalizations and yours--they stem frmo different places. If you reread my statement, i'm trying to tell you to be careful what you are asserting as reality because there are dangerous generalizations and the value of them comes forth from where the generalizations come from.

 

Some of the things realistcally are the truth. Not the pretty truth and not what men want women to think of them ass but still the truth in more cases then I think even you realistically want to admit to. You rather take this time to make personal attacks on things you have no clue about then to directly address the points, whether you agree with them or not. If you really didn't see any truth in what I was saying, you would be able to comment in disagreement to the comments I made. Instead you rather make personal judgements on me. Just because you say "that's not true", without any real value behind your words..doesn't mean that it isnt.

 

I addressed what you said--I responded back how the "men" you were talking about simply aren't men. They're not worth discussing and have NO relevance in the topic at hand. Why would we want to spend our time discussing those who are like that? And the "personal attacks" you are referring to are comments made about your generalizations. If they don't come from the right place, how in the world am I supposed to entertain and address the message? I am trying to go a level above here and address the metaconcept instead of getting mired down in the negative emotional baggage this topic often elicits from people.

[harmfulsweetz]

And my message is that while he is with her, it is still a real and natural threat to her emotional bond with her man when he is taking in and noticing other women on a completely masculine/feminine way.

 

 

 

 

 

But I hope that men can also see the bigger picture. And that the 10 second look doesn't outweight making your gf wonder what is going on in their relationship. That applies both ways.

 

 

 

 

 

Because I am not convinced that every man experiences the situation as you describe. I think alot of men do think about the woman , her body, what it would be like to touch her, pretending to have sex with her..so on.

 

.

 

I have an excellent viewpoint about how the human psyche works. That is why I question the comments that a man is only looking at a woman for a few seconds and is having no othe sexual thoughts about her. And you wouldn't be trying to disprove what I say so hard if you really believed I didn't.

 

 

.

 

I agree it's nature. I never said otherwise. HOWEVER, it is also nature for a woman to get upset at her man noticing other women.

 

 

 

But you admit they are demeaning.

 

 

 

This isn't about questioning his attraction to me. It's about questioning how many more women he needs to self gratify himself. I know it's not all about the physical but the physical is clearly very strong and important influence over men. How is it that you can lecture me on not eing worried about the physical and in the same paragraph defend how men respond to the physical?

No, it's not just men who are visual, women are too. I don't condemn a man for looking, or even fantasizing provided nothing is physically done about it because heck, I've more important things to worry about.

If you simply get upset by your man noticing someone else's attractiveness, what else will you get upset about? Simply noticing someone else isn't offensive. Jealousy is a good thing (in small doses) in an R, course, if we didn't care who our partners are with, etc, we shouldn't be together. Anyway, my point is that you seem to cake all men in 'they are all sleaze' cake mix, and you are neglecting to realize, that sleazy men are the minority, not the majority.

Looks are a high value for men. But they aren't the only things. If they are, then that person isn't worth being with. If the only problem in an R, is him looking at an attractive woman once in a while (there are those that do it excessively) then heck, those aren't problems with the R, they are problems within you. You have a right to respond how you see fit, but don't expect nature to change just because you ask it to. Why not be a hermit?

[loveslife]

Ya know what's more unsettling than having a guy look at another woman when out with you? When he looks at another guy. Seriously, this happened to me once. Kind of got a clue about him from the way he was looking at the dude at the next table.

 

For the most part, a guy checking out another woman when with me doesn't bother me. I don't think it's ever appropriate to really ogle someone, but an appreciative glance is no big deal to me.

[Trialbyfire]

Ya know what's more unsettling than having a guy look at another woman when out with you? When he looks at another guy. Seriously, this happened to me once. Kind of got a clue about him from the way he was looking at the dude at the next table.

 

For the most part, a guy checking out another woman when with me doesn't bother me. I don't think it's ever appropriate to really ogle someone, but an appreciative glance is no big deal to me.

Was your gaydar whooping like an air raid alarm?

[loveslife]

Was your gaydar whooping like an air raid alarm?

 

Likes sirens with those twirling red and white lights!

[Jersey Shortie]

Second bold quote: thats YOUR interpretation of what's going on in his head. It amazes me, especially in your previous posts in this thread how you claim to be inside the mind of not a particluar man, but all men! Just because a man is looking at her doesn't mean he's BASICALLY interested in her. It could mean he's attractive to her, it could mean he's thinking about how beautiful she is, it could mean he wants to have sexual relations with her, it could mean he was just objectively looking. It could mean a lot of things, but i'm not sure why you always want to say you know what men are thinking

...

 

Lets get something straight, I NEVER claimed to be inside anyone’s head. What a false bullhockey statement to make.

 

Secondly, you just repeated everything I said lol! He could just be looking at her not thinking anything else or he could be looking at her thinking all kinds of different things about her. That is the reality. I said EXACTLY the same thing. And it's probably pretty honest that sometimes he just looks and that's it and other times he is lusting for her inside his head. And you have no idea when that is happening. So even if he IS just looking at another woman and then completely forgetting she exsist the next moment, it is VERy realistic that he is taking the image of her home with him as well.

 

Whenever this topic gets brought up, and it gets brought up alot for a reason, alot of people tell the women that struggle with this issue that the man ISN”T AT ALL thinking about these other women in any other terms them objectively noticing her beauty. And that he is soon forgetting her with a snap of the fingers. And that isn’t the complete truth. That might happen sometimes. But he very well could be thinking about this other women in all forms of ways. Most women are okay with her man noticing another woman if it’s more objective. When it turns into sexual lust or admiration to the point that he wants to sleep with another women, even if he is just thinking about what he wants, that is what bothers most women more.

 

The irony is you repeated exactly what I said.

 

 

Who cares what the message of INGENUINE MEN is!?! People who send that message are not worth entertaining, hence I am not addressing it. You keep trying to hammer home how men keep saying this. How is that helping and furthering our conversation? What is your point?

 

I really have no idea what you mena by "ingenuine men". Or why you keep lamenating that phrase. My point is that alot of people hold the idea that a man doesn’t need to control his “sexual” “natural” impluses but a woman should control her emotional ones. That is why the message here is that it's okay for men to look, and women should curb out they feel about it. Why so many people come here trying to get the women that are bothered by it to "accept it". Or why some people here try to spin it as being a completely good thing that your man is oggling other women.

 

I addressed what you said--I responded back how the "men" you were talking about simply aren't men. They're not worth discussing and have NO relevance in the topic at hand. Why would we want to spend our time discussing those who are like that? And the "personal attacks" you are referring to are comments made about your generalizations. If they don't come from the right place, how in the world am I supposed to entertain and address the message? I am trying to go a level above here and address the metaconcept instead of getting mired down in the negative emotional baggage this topic often elicits from people.

 

You want to sell fluff and feel good messages instead of being 100% honest about the ugly reality at times. And you want to attack me rather then discuss the very realistic points I brought up.

 

 

----------------------------------------------------

 

No, it's not just men who are visual, women are too. I don't condemn a man for looking, or even fantasizing provided nothing is physically done about it because heck, I've more important things to worry about.

 

Spare me the over the top "I got better things to worry about line". Women and men both have "natural" hormone driven desires. To give justification for a man's natural hormone driven desire to look and tell another woman that her natural hormone drive desire to be bothered by it is wasting time, but his isn't, is hypocritical. Don't you think men should have more important things to worry about then oggling other women? Sorry, buy my female response to be bothered by his looking and hurt by it is no less wrong or not justified then you seem to think his looking is.

 

 

If you simply get upset by your man noticing someone else's attractiveness, what else will you get upset about?

 

 

I am sorry but this has been explained to you several times and you continue to lanmenate on an untruth. This isn't a matter of just noticing someone else is attractive. This isn't about asking for perfection. THis is about asking for more self control that I think men are capable of, then they do give.

 

Simply noticing someone else isn't offensive. Jealousy is a good thing (in small doses) in an R, course, if we didn't care who our partners are with, etc, we shouldn't be together.

 

Simplely noticing someone isn't offensive. Lusting after, thinking about being inimate with them, comparing their body..taking in the moment..maybe even taking home the idea of her is.

 

So you define healthy by the partner noticing other people so that they make the other person feel jealous or hurt?

 

 

Anyway, my point is that you seem to cake all men in 'they are all sleaze' cake mix, and you are neglecting to realize, that sleazy men are the minority, not the majority.

 

No. You said all men were sleaze..i never did. I am more honest and realistic about what some men can be thinking. Its not always pretty but it is honesty. I don't buy into the fake ideal that all men are so into their partners that they never have bad thoughts about them or think about being with other women. There is alot of down-playing about what goes on in the male mind that people want to admit to. ANd I think you understand this but fear to admit it.

 

 

Looks are a high value for men. But they aren't the only things. If they are, then that person isn't worth being with. If the only problem in an R, is him looking at an attractive woman once in a while (there are those that do it excessively) then heck, those aren't problems with the R, they are problems within you. You have a right to respond how you see fit, but don't expect nature to change just because you ask it to. Why not be a hermit?

 

And that is the exact mentality that is so hypocritical. It's okay for guys to look, that's nature. But it's not okay for a woman to feel upset over it. And if she does feel upset, she needs to learn to curb and manage it while he can play out his fantasies over and over again when the next woman walks by. THAT is the exactly mentality that berates women's very natural hurt feelings over his looking and defends a man. Sorry. But that is completely unjust.

[Paragon]

...

 

Lets get something straight, I NEVER claimed to be inside anyone’s head. What a false bullhockey statement to make.

 

Secondly, you just repeated everything I said lol! He could just be looking at her not thinking anything else or he could be looking at her thinking all kinds of different things about her. That is the reality. I said EXACTLY the same thing. And it's probably pretty honest that sometimes he just looks and that's it and other times he is lusting for her inside his head. And you have no idea when that is happening. So even if he IS just looking at another woman and then completely forgetting she exsist the next moment, it is VERy realistic that he is taking the image of her home with him as well.

 

Yup, your right. But where will that viewpoint get you? NOWHERE. Everyone who's reading this post, let me let you in on a little secret, and it's the NUMBER ONE WAY TO SABOTAGE a relationship of ANY kind, especially romantic--you ATTRIBUTE your partner's behavior to a BAD INTENTION. Jersey, that's exactly what your FOCUSING on here--the negative. You say you just want to point it out? Why? To be fair and REALISTIC? For what purpose? For what end? How is it serving Dina, the OP of this thread? It's not...You want to play reality check--but no one here wants to play because it gets you NOWHERE except stomping your feet saying "Well it COULD be true." If you are in a relationship and you think it could be true that's the case, or think it IS the case, then you (you as in a collective you) should get OUT of it because there are deeper issues that need to be addressed.

 

Whenever this topic gets brought up, and it gets brought up alot for a reason, alot of people tell the women that struggle with this issue that the man ISN”T AT ALL thinking about these other women in any other terms them objectively noticing her beauty. And that he is soon forgetting her with a snap of the fingers. And that isn’t the complete truth. That might happen sometimes. But he very well could be thinking about this other women in all forms of ways. Most women are okay with her man noticing another woman if it’s more objective. When it turns into sexual lust or admiration to the point that he wants to sleep with another women, even if he is just thinking about what he wants, that is what bothers most women more.

 

Very well could be...That's what you said...How do you know? You DON'T!!

 

Second bold quote: Since I assume you want to contribute a SOLUTION to the problem above instead of just POINTING it out, what SPECIFICALLY do you suggest to do to SOLVE this bothersome problem, Jersey? Let's start moving our discussion in a more positive direction here

 

 

I really have no idea what you mena by "ingenuine men". Or why you keep lamenating that phrase. My point is that alot of people hold the idea that a man doesn’t need to control his “sexual” “natural” impluses but a woman should control her emotional ones. That is why the message here is that it's okay for men to look, and women should curb out they feel about it. Why so many people come here trying to get the women that are bothered by it to "accept it". Or why some people here try to spin it as being a completely good thing that your man is oggling other women.

 

It's amazing--I literally want to bang my head against the wall conversating with you--I wonder why that is? Let me make this clear; I don't care--AT ALL--what "a lot of people" think. That's NOT THE MESSAGE HERE!! Not at all, I never said it was. If someone else did, that's THEIR short-sighted business, not mine. I don't entertain useless and immature viewpoints. This conversation is NOT ABOUT the "some people" you refer to, Jersey. You keep relentlessly pointing out the NEGATIVE and calling it realistic. But you've never said anything constructive yet about how we can get past this, besides pointing out that men should control it more...Come on now...

 

You want to sell fluff and feel good messages instead of being 100% honest about the ugly reality at times. And you want to attack me rather then discuss the very realistic points I brought up.

 

50% of your points are based off of dangerous PERSONALIZED generalizations. I haven't read one single positive and constructive solution offered by you yet! Sell fluff? What fluff? And feel good messages--you're against positive messages I espouse in order to give someone a positive and a self-confident purview?

 

Dina, has Jersey helped you in any way with any of her posts in this thread? If so, please deliniate.

 

Jersey, I don't know what you're trying to do here, I really don't. So let me corral our discussion here, so I can avoid you quoting and responding to things I said like we''ve been pointlessly doing for the past 3 pages.

 

Here's what I want you to do--it's a simple two-step action. First, identify the problem, whatever you happen to think it is. Then, immediately after, propose a solution. Rules: don't go off on a tangent, don't express things in a negative way (ie, the solution would NOT be for men to just keep doing this...that's a negative form.) Keep it positive.

 

I won't want to address ANYTHING else you say besides that question and solution you post--if you decide to try and move this discussion to a more positive and value offering place. If you don't and would rather address my post and keep trying to "keep it real" be my guest, but I think most readers will get weary of it very soon if they haven't already...