My fiance and my ex are going at it!!

[EricaH329]

OH - Phateless, I meant to ask... how do you deal with your gf when it gets to the point where it's impossible to talk to her??

[Trimmer]

To be quite honest with you, I do feel terrible for what I did. It was a mistake, and not only because my fiance and I got back together and it hurt him, but because it wasn't the right thing for me to do at that point in my life.

I think you are already coming to this conclusion, but there is a difference between a "mistake" that you own, in the context of your own life (and you get to decide whether this one is...) and a "mistake" in the context of your relationship with him, that injures him. This was the former, but there was no relationship with him, so it's not a mistake that you owe him apologies for.

 

I just have a strong negative reaction to the way you are talking about apologizing to him, trying to help him feel better about it, etc. And he is just keeping the hook in your mouth, holding you there so you continue to flop and squirm, which just further reinforces his feeling like you wronged him.

 

Obviously it's all very twisted.

 

I think inside, he is mad at you, and at himself, but it's much easier to get that anger out by directing it at your ex, than it is to really take a hard, honest look at himself.

 

With that said, I don't feel as though my fiance has much of a right to be upset about this.

Well, I think you acknowledged that he is understandably upset about the situation, but I realize what I think you are saying is that he isn't justified directing his anger toward your ex or you. I agree.

 

He broke up with me. He told me to move on. He made it seem as though we were not going to get back together. So I started thinking for myself. I started doing what I thought was best for myself at that point in time. He doesn't see it that way. He sees it as me not caring enough for him, since he wasn't able to sleep with another girl because of the love he had for me. Although, he did kiss a girl.

 

It's starting to seem as though if it isn't his way of thinking, then it's wrong. Ouch. Hard reality to face.

 

It seems like at this point, the only time it is brought up is when we argue about something. I'm hoping that will go away over time.

 

At this point, I feel like I will do anything to make my fiances pain subside. [\quote]

Hold on, you are not responsible for his pain, and it's dangerous - from a relationship standpoint - for you to take responsibility for easing pain that he needs to own. That's a fine line, I know - you would "do anything" to help him - but be careful taking responsibility for something that he should take responsibility for, but isn't able to.

 

To be completely honest with you, i've never seen him this upset over anything before. Maybe it's because i've never really given him a reason to be upset...

Let's stop right there - again, you are taking responsibility for his pain and anger. I don't know, something about the way you just said that sounds like a battered woman: the only reason he gets mad is because I do something wrong... I can't quite put my finger on it - it's just a gut feel - but something about the way you said that just doesn't sit right with me.

 

 

 

Ever since we got back together, he's been pushing to get married. Pushing harder than he ever has. I'm not quite sure why that is.

There's a saying that a man marries a woman expecting her to stay the same, and a woman marries a man expecting to be able to change him.

 

He wants to get married right away, and to move you away from your existing connections, to keep you the same, to lock you in, to freeze you in time.

 

And at the same time, you are looking at all these warning signs of his behavior only in the context of the immediate situation, thinking that once you get married, he will change and mellow and be different after this particular situation blows over.

 

I think you need to consider these behaviors and patterns as possible indicators of his approach to life and relationships, and not assume that they will just change for the better by getting married and living apart for the first 3 years...

[EricaH329]

I just have a strong negative reaction to the way you are talking about apologizing to him, trying to help him feel better about it, etc. And he is just keeping the hook in your mouth, holding you there so you continue to flop and squirm, which just further reinforces his feeling like you wronged him.

 

It's hard to explain. The mistake that I made by sleeping with my ex, caused me a lot of emotional pain. A lot more than I was already going through. After me and my fiance got back together, and I had told him what I did, I felt terrible that not only did the mistake that I made effect me in such a way, but it also effected him a lot too. It wasn't only myself that I was taking responsibility for, it was someone elses pain also. Someone that I love very dearly. And to hurt my fiance because of a mistake that I made, makes me feel as though I need to apologize to him. I know it might not seem like it makes sense, but that's just how my mind works.

 

 

I think inside, he is mad at you, and at himself, but it's much easier to get that anger out by directing it at your ex, than it is to really take a hard, honest look at himself.

 

I fully agree with this statement. He has previously mentioned that he feels as though if he didn't make the mistake of breaking up with me, that none of this would have happened, so he feels guilty also. But instead of letting that tear him up, he decides to take it out on my ex. He doesn't want to take any responsibility for the pain he is going through, even though he realizes it does have something to do with him.

 

I know i've said this before, but I can't stress it enough. I am in no way agreeing with how he is putting blame on my ex. And directing all of his anger towards my ex. I feel that is completely unfair. I was a part of it also, so if he is going to have any anger towards anyone but himself, then I should be a part of that.

 

 

 

Hold on, you are not responsible for his pain, and it's dangerous - from a relationship standpoint - for you to take responsibility for easing pain that he needs to own. That's a fine line, I know - you would "do anything" to help him - but be careful taking responsibility for something that he should take responsibility for, but isn't able to.

 

 

Let's stop right there - again, you are taking responsibility for his pain and anger. I don't know, something about the way you just said that sounds like a battered woman: the only reason he gets mad is because I do something wrong... I can't quite put my finger on it - it's just a gut feel - but something about the way you said that just doesn't sit right with me.

 

I do feel that I am responsible for what he is going through. Maybe not to the extent that it's going to, but I do take responsibility for some of the pain he is going through. If I did not do that, neither of us would be upset. Neither of us would be going through this right now, and he most certainly wouldn't be angry or hurt.

[Phateless]

OH - Phateless, I meant to ask... how do you deal with your gf when it gets to the point where it's impossible to talk to her??

 

lol I'm still trying to figure that out. I know that what I should do is stay calm and rational and talk to her, and if she acts out, just calmly tell her, "I'm going to go home. Call me when you're calm and we can talk about this." And then I need to follow through and leave.

 

I have a very hard time doing this. I posted a thread about all this recently.

 

How have you been handling this?

[EricaH329]

lol I'm still trying to figure that out. I know that what I should do is stay calm and rational and talk to her, and if she acts out, just calmly tell her, "I'm going to go home. Call me when you're calm and we can talk about this." And then I need to follow through and leave.

 

I have a very hard time doing this. I posted a thread about all this recently.

 

How have you been handling this?

 

That does sound like a great idea, unfortunatly I have a feeling that I would also have a hard time following through.

 

When my fiance starts getting impossible, he starts getting irrational. That's when I calm down, and start speaking rationally. That's usually when he gets quite. I'm hoping this is just a phase for him, and as he gets older he will grow out of it.

[Trimmer]

There's a saying that a man marries a woman expecting her to stay the same, and a woman marries a man expecting to be able to change him.

 

I'm hoping this is just a phase for him, and as he gets older he will grow out of it.

 

Are you expecting him to grow out of it? Are you assuming he will grow out of it? Can you spend the rest of your life with him if he doesn't grow out of it? Because many relationship problems are born of exactly the situation you are facing: a fundamental problem appears in the dynamic, and instead of approaching it head on and either solving it or determining that it's a show-stopper, you ignore it and hope/pray/assume that things will change for the better later.

 

Can you live the rest of your life this way if it doesn't get better? Can you really determine that, under pressure, in the next 3 weeks?

[EricaH329]

Are you expecting him to grow out of it? Are you assuming he will grow out of it? Can you spend the rest of your life with him if he doesn't grow out of it? Because many relationship problems are born of exactly the situation you are facing: a fundamental problem appears in the dynamic, and instead of approaching it head on and either solving it or determining that it's a show-stopper, you ignore it and hope/pray/assume that things will change for the better later.

 

Can you live the rest of your life this way if it doesn't get better? Can you really determine that, under pressure, in the next 3 weeks?

 

First off, I want to say that I really appreciate your advice. You have made me think of things that I haven't really taken into consideration before. Thank you!

 

As far as my fiance goes, I assume that he will change. I don't necessarily expect him to change. If that makes sense.

 

I went out tonight, and had a really good time, and before I went out, him and I had a conversation that was taken lightly, that I feel should have been taken more seriously.

 

After reading all the posts that have been made, I feel like maybe therapy would be best for both of us. Unfortunatly, him and I would not be able to attend the sessions together because of how far apart we are.

 

I feel stuck. I want things to work. And I want to be able to talk to him about things that upset me without him getting upset.

 

At this point, I feel like this is how he perceives our relationship: I am with her, she loves me and I love her, that's all that matters. I once felt that way also. Until I realized that love really isn't enough to keep a relationship alive.

 

The problems I have with our relationship, he seems to think aren't really problems, but more of me over-thinking situations.

 

When him and I were together, physically, everything was great. It was almost fairy-tale like. He has even told me so. And I have a feeling that's what we are both holding onto. But unfortunatly, the long distance relationship isn't anything like what we used to have.

 

I guess what i'm trying to say is.... how do I make this relationship work at this point, when neither of us seem to understand eachother anymore.

[Phateless]

That does sound like a great idea, unfortunatly I have a feeling that I would also have a hard time following through.

 

When my fiance starts getting impossible, he starts getting irrational. That's when I calm down, and start speaking rationally. That's usually when he gets quite. I'm hoping this is just a phase for him, and as he gets older he will grow out of it.

 

Same here. In her case she reads too much into little things and gets really upset at the conclusions she jumped to, then unloads all this emotion on me and starts a fight.

 

I think Trimmer is dead-on. She has been improving in little ways but there is no way I could spend the rest of my life this way.

 

We both just have to make a judgment call on if we love them enough to deal with it forever.

[EricaH329]

We both just have to make a judgment call on if we love them enough to deal with it forever.

 

You are right. I am at the point where i've given up so much just to be with him and make this relationship work. I'm allowing my future to bascially be decided by his actions. I love him with all my heart, but i've decided that love isn't going to keep our relationship going. There needs to be compromise on both ends.

 

So today I am going to put my foot down. I am going to talk to him, and i'm not going to back down.

 

I thought everything was going great, I thought he was making the effort that was needed, but come to find out... he's not. And it's as if that doesn't bother him. No more. I refuse to give 100% and recieve 25%.

[Phateless]

You are right. I am at the point where i've given up so much just to be with him and make this relationship work. I'm allowing my future to bascially be decided by his actions. I love him with all my heart, but i've decided that love isn't going to keep our relationship going. There needs to be compromise on both ends.

 

So today I am going to put my foot down. I am going to talk to him, and i'm not going to back down.

 

I thought everything was going great, I thought he was making the effort that was needed, but come to find out... he's not. And it's as if that doesn't bother him. No more. I refuse to give 100% and recieve 25%.

 

That's exactly how I feel. Let me know how it goes.

[EricaH329]

Well, I guess some people just aren't made for reasoning. The first conversation we had, started out with the communication problem. That was solved a lot quicker than I had thought it would. He agreed that he needs to work on that.

 

While I was hopeful that his understanding would carry on throughout the conversation, I was brought back to reality when I realized it wasn't. I explained to him that I felt that the effort on his part was becoming close to nothing. He did not like that. At all. I thought everything was fine, we had gotten off the phone because he had something to do, but an hour later I had a big feeling that maybe everything wasn't fine. I called him back, and he told me that he was pissed off. Pissed off because I didn't think he was putting any effort in. I asked him what has he done... and all he could continue to say is "I'm trying!" with no evidence of actually doing so. (For example, I need my birth certificate that I left at his mothers house for something very important, and he has yet to call and ask her about it. It's been 3 weeks.)

 

I asked him to please try and put himself in my shoes, and see it from my perspective, and he came back with "To be honest, I don't want to. I don't care to. You feel as if i'm not doing enough." That hurt. He continued to go on about things that were not relevant to what we were talking about.

 

For some reason, I thought the conversation was going to be black and white. Basically.... this is what I need from you, and if you can't do it, then we can't be together, type of thing. But it turned into something else, and i'm not too sure how to go about dealing with it.

 

I feel confused as to how the conversation ended. I know he had to get things done, so he said he would call me back later... but i'm not sure what exactly we accomplished by having that talk. He's mad at me for feeling the way that I feel.

 

Maybe this is beyond any sort of conversation that him and I could possibly have. I brought up the idea of counseling, even though we are far apart, and he said absolutely not. He felt that he doesn't need counseling.

 

It sort of feels like i'm running into a brick wall, over and over again. Trying different tactics each time to try and get through the wall.. and everytime I feel like i've figured it out... it always fails.

[Phateless]

Well, I guess some people just aren't made for reasoning. The first conversation we had, started out with the communication problem. That was solved a lot quicker than I had thought it would. He agreed that he needs to work on that.

 

While I was hopeful that his understanding would carry on throughout the conversation, I was brought back to reality when I realized it wasn't. I explained to him that I felt that the effort on his part was becoming close to nothing. He did not like that. At all. I thought everything was fine, we had gotten off the phone because he had something to do, but an hour later I had a big feeling that maybe everything wasn't fine. I called him back, and he told me that he was pissed off. Pissed off because I didn't think he was putting any effort in. I asked him what has he done... and all he could continue to say is "I'm trying!" with no evidence of actually doing so. (For example, I need my birth certificate that I left at his mothers house for something very important, and he has yet to call and ask her about it. It's been 3 weeks.)

 

I asked him to please try and put himself in my shoes, and see it from my perspective, and he came back with "To be honest, I don't want to. I don't care to. You feel as if i'm not doing enough." That hurt. He continued to go on about things that were not relevant to what we were talking about.

 

For some reason, I thought the conversation was going to be black and white. Basically.... this is what I need from you, and if you can't do it, then we can't be together, type of thing. But it turned into something else, and i'm not too sure how to go about dealing with it.

 

I feel confused as to how the conversation ended. I know he had to get things done, so he said he would call me back later... but i'm not sure what exactly we accomplished by having that talk. He's mad at me for feeling the way that I feel.

 

Maybe this is beyond any sort of conversation that him and I could possibly have. I brought up the idea of counseling, even though we are far apart, and he said absolutely not. He felt that he doesn't need counseling.

 

It sort of feels like i'm running into a brick wall, over and over again. Trying different tactics each time to try and get through the wall.. and everytime I feel like i've figured it out... it always fails.

 

Again, that's exactly how it happens for me. We had an argument tonight about how she's "doing so much," yet there is NOTHING tangible that she is doing. She refuses to commit to anything measurable.

 

If I bring up my feelings about something relating to her, she gets emotional about my feelings, and all we can talk about is her feelings about my feelings.

 

Ridiculous...

[EricaH329]

Again, that's exactly how it happens for me. We had an argument tonight about how she's "doing so much," yet there is NOTHING tangible that she is doing. She refuses to commit to anything measurable.

 

If I bring up my feelings about something relating to her, she gets emotional about my feelings, and all we can talk about is her feelings about my feelings.

 

Ridiculous...

 

YES!! Wow... that's really scary. Can you imagine if they were both with eachother... they would never have to worry about doing anything, but the second they feel like something isn't right, it would be a constant battle between the two of them, "I can't believe you feel that way!" "I can't believe you feel that way!" Oh god. That's amusing haha.

 

Anyway, I think i'm going to try a different approach. Five hours after he said he would call me back to finish talking about everything, I called him a couple of times and he didn't answer. Finally, at 11 at night, I called one last time, and he answered. Turns out, he was at a bar all night while I was sitting at home trying to figure out ways to make our relationship work.

 

I think i'm going to suggest a few days without talking. Clearing both of our heads. He had mentioned in the conversation we had last night "We are going to get married, and everything will be ok." That's when I told him that we cannot get married until we both begin working on our relationship.

 

Keep me updated on how your relationship is going. I'll do the same with you. Maybe one of us will figure something out that's actually productive.

[Phateless]

YES!! Wow... that's really scary. Can you imagine if they were both with eachother... they would never have to worry about doing anything, but the second they feel like something isn't right, it would be a constant battle between the two of them, "I can't believe you feel that way!" "I can't believe you feel that way!" Oh god. That's amusing haha.

 

Anyway, I think i'm going to try a different approach. Five hours after he said he would call me back to finish talking about everything, I called him a couple of times and he didn't answer. Finally, at 11 at night, I called one last time, and he answered. Turns out, he was at a bar all night while I was sitting at home trying to figure out ways to make our relationship work.

 

I think i'm going to suggest a few days without talking. Clearing both of our heads. He had mentioned in the conversation we had last night "We are going to get married, and everything will be ok." That's when I told him that we cannot get married until we both begin working on our relationship.

 

Keep me updated on how your relationship is going. I'll do the same with you. Maybe one of us will figure something out that's actually productive.

 

lol I think we'd both enjoy watching that!

 

Already tried the one week thing, except it wasn't a week without talking. It was a week without talking about the relationship. One week of complete peace. We tried several times and the longest we could make it was 5 days. Most times it only lasted 3. In some ways it helped, mostly because it gave us a chance to relax. We talked and related more in that week than we had in a long time.

 

My girl doesn't disappear and go to bars, but in the middle of arguments she always tries to just cut it off because she doesn't want to argue, but that leaves things unresolved and makes me even more angry.

 

She also tells me she wants a future with me and wants it to start asap, but I keep telling her that there is no way I'm moving forward under current conditions.

 

I actually told her the other day, "I love you, but I don't love this relationship." That really hurt her, but she needed to hear it!

 

Honestly, I'm not sure they're going to change, and I'm afraid that it's not going to get better. It's going to get worse.

 

EDIT - I think her main issue is that she takes ANYTHING I say about her behavior as criticism and attack, and so she gets defensive and reactive.

[EricaH329]

lol I think we'd both enjoy watching that!

 

Probably a little too much

 

Already tried the one week thing, except it wasn't a week without talking. It was a week without talking about the relationship. One week of complete peace. We tried several times and the longest we could make it was 5 days. Most times it only lasted 3. In some ways it helped, mostly because it gave us a chance to relax. We talked and related more in that week than we had in a long time.

 

I've also tried doing that. But it's like the second I tell him we aren't going to talk about the relationship, he switches to 'I'll do whatever I want then' mode. Which is unacceptable.

 

The time him and I had apart (broken up) was enough to make him realize that he didn't want to live his life without me. But maybe it wasn't enough for him to realize that in order to do that, things with him need to change. Also myself, which I have been working on.

 

My girl doesn't disappear and go to bars, but in the middle of arguments she always tries to just cut it off because she doesn't want to argue, but that leaves things unresolved and makes me even more angry.

 

Yes!

 

She also tells me she wants a future with me and wants it to start asap, but I keep telling her that there is no way I'm moving forward under current conditions.

 

Yes!

 

EDIT - I think her main issue is that she takes ANYTHING I say about her behavior as criticism and attack, and so she gets defensive and reactive.

 

Yes!

 

I actually told her the other day, "I love you, but I don't love this relationship." That really hurt her, but she needed to hear it!

 

Honestly, I'm not sure they're going to change, and I'm afraid that it's not going to get better. It's going to get worse.

 

Your girlfriend sounds exactly like my fiance! From how he gets really defensive, to how he handles situations.

 

I find it oddly refreshing that someone else is going through the same thing I am, and are trying to make it work with a seemingly impossible person. There are a lot of people telling me that I shouldn't bother trying to work on it, that it's a waste of time. But i've committed myself to this. At this point, breaking up is the last resort. Very last resort.

 

I'm also afraid that they aren't going to change. I'm not sure of the backround of your relationship with your girlfriend, but I know that my fiance never used to be like this. He actually used to be the complete opposite. He used to always care if what he was doing was upsetting me, and if it was, he wouldn't hesitate to change it. Which gives me hope that maybe this is just a phase he is going through, and he will revert back to his old ways after awhile.

 

I feel like maybe we crossed over into another territory. One where we are welcome, but on their terms.

 

If I may ask, was it always like this between the two of you? Or was there a time where you both understood eachother?

[Phateless]

Which gives me hope that maybe this is just a phase he is going through, and he will revert back to his old ways after awhile.

 

I feel like maybe we crossed over into another territory. One where we are welcome, but on their terms.

 

If I may ask, was it always like this between the two of you? Or was there a time where you both understood eachother?

 

I completely agree! It really makes me feel better that someone else shares my pain and experiences. We can get each other through this.

 

I'm really hoping the same thing. I feel like we are in an alternate reality.

 

It's been like this for about a year, and we've been together a year and a half. When we first started seeing each other I lived 4 hours away. Then I moved up here, she got her own place and I stayed there all the time. She's been insecure ever since I got my own place and found a job, because she felt like I was pulling away or we were taking a step backward.

 

We talked about it over and over, but she kept pressuring me to move in together, despite my objections that I wasn't ready. She admitted the other day to being resentful and insecure about all of that, which explains her behavior. It does not, however, excuse it.

 

Now she's afraid that there's no real commitment and that I'll string her along indefinitely, like her ex did. I told her that all this craziness is moving us backward, not forward.

 

I just don't know what to do. I love her but she is absolutely impossible. I just want all this drama to end, but at the same time I'm terrified of losing her.

[EricaH329]

I completely agree! It really makes me feel better that someone else shares my pain and experiences. We can get each other through this.

 

I'm really hoping the same thing. I feel like we are in an alternate reality.

 

Yes, we most certainly can get through this, and by doing it together it will make it that much easier. I've finally found someone that understands what i'm going through! Sad, yet refreshing.

 

I always try to put myself in the other persons shoes when they are making an arguement. I cannot put myself in his shoes though. I just simply do not understand his logic. I'm afraid if I keep pushing myself to understand it, i'm going to end up just as emotionally unstable as he is... which would not be healthy in any way shape or form.

 

 

It's been like this for about a year, and we've been together a year and a half. When we first started seeing each other I lived 4 hours away. Then I moved up here, she got her own place and I stayed there all the time. She's been insecure ever since I got my own place and found a job, because she felt like I was pulling away or we were taking a step backward.

 

We talked about it over and over, but she kept pressuring me to move in together, despite my objections that I wasn't ready. She admitted the other day to being resentful and insecure about all of that, which explains her behavior. It does not, however, excuse it.

 

Now she's afraid that there's no real commitment and that I'll string her along indefinitely, like her ex did. I told her that all this craziness is moving us backward, not forward.

 

I can see where her insecurities might lead her to believe that you are failing to make a commitment, but logically you are actually doing quite the opposite.

 

You are proving your commitment towards her by trying to make the relationship work. By trying to sort out your differences and come to some sort of compromise. In my opinion, if you were to just move in with her, and the relationship continued on the way it was... that would be moving backwards. Backwards and away from any sort of real relationship. People living together and getting married does not prove you are commited to the other person. I have a feeling we are with people that believe that is the case. Ok, so it's not just a feeling, it's a fact.

 

I just don't know what to do. I love her but she is absolutely impossible. I just want all this drama to end, but at the same time I'm terrified of losing her.

 

Amen!!!!! Couldn't have said it better myself. I've experienced the pain that comes along with losing him, and him I... and we've both come to the conclusion that whatever we are going through isn't anywhere near as painful as being without eachother is.

 

So since we've both established that being without them, is most definitely something we don't want to do... we need to figure out some way to make it work. I think if we both put our minds together, we can come up with a plan to at least experiment with.

 

Ahhh where to begin!

[EricaH329]

Ok so I just got off the phone with him, and we had an interesting conversation.

 

He asked me what I was upset about last night, and he started to get a little upset. He kept asking what I wanted from him, and I calmly explained how we need to work on our relationship. He then goes "It sounds like i'm on an episode of Dr. Phil. You never used to talk to me like this." I took that as a compliment, and explained to him that I realize how I used to go about dealing with situations was not productive, nor did it accomplish anything. So I decided to take a different approach, and better myself while doing so.

 

I explained to him why I was hurt, and as usual, he responded with "You are always hurt. I spill a drink, and you get upset." That was far fetched, but I came back with "Alright, I might get upset that you spilled the drink, but do you take the time to figure out why that might upset me? Do you realize that your glass was full of wine and you just spilled it on our brand new white carpet?"

 

Of course I wouldn't get upset to the extent I am now about that, everyone makes mistakes, but it was a figure of speech. Trying to let him know that he is only taking the situation for what it looks like, as opposed to what it is.

 

He sat down, and said "Alright, i'm in a fixing-problems mood. What do you think needs to be fixed? Let's figure this out."

 

I've been waiting to hear those words for a very long time. We talked for awhile, and I was surprised to notice that he wasn't getting upset at all! We talked about everything, and he actually apologized for some things! Like how he went out last night to the bar instead of talking to me, he actually apologized and told me he realizes that wasn't the right thing to do. I was very impressed!

 

He got a little sidetracked at times, talking to his roommates, but after all was said and done, I felt great! I had gotten everything off my chest, and he actually listened! We talked about how he becomes defensive, when i'm only trying to explain situations to him, and he told me he would work on that.

 

I feel extremely relieved, but at the same time, I feel a little wary... because nothing is ever this easy with him. I'm not sure if he said all of those things to shut me up and make me happy for the time being, or if he meant it. It does seem a little too good to be true that out of no where he decides he wants to hear what I have to say and make an effort to work on it. Only time will tell I guess.

[Phateless]

Ok so I just got off the phone with him, and we had an interesting conversation.

 

He asked me what I was upset about last night, and he started to get a little upset. He kept asking what I wanted from him, and I calmly explained how we need to work on our relationship. He then goes "It sounds like i'm on an episode of Dr. Phil. You never used to talk to me like this." I took that as a compliment, and explained to him that I realize how I used to go about dealing with situations was not productive, nor did it accomplish anything. So I decided to take a different approach, and better myself while doing so.

 

I explained to him why I was hurt, and as usual, he responded with "You are always hurt. I spill a drink, and you get upset." That was far fetched, but I came back with "Alright, I might get upset that you spilled the drink, but do you take the time to figure out why that might upset me? Do you realize that your glass was full of wine and you just spilled it on our brand new white carpet?"

 

Of course I wouldn't get upset to the extent I am now about that, everyone makes mistakes, but it was a figure of speech. Trying to let him know that he is only taking the situation for what it looks like, as opposed to what it is.

 

He sat down, and said "Alright, i'm in a fixing-problems mood. What do you think needs to be fixed? Let's figure this out."

 

I've been waiting to hear those words for a very long time. We talked for awhile, and I was surprised to notice that he wasn't getting upset at all! We talked about everything, and he actually apologized for some things! Like how he went out last night to the bar instead of talking to me, he actually apologized and told me he realizes that wasn't the right thing to do. I was very impressed!

 

He got a little sidetracked at times, talking to his roommates, but after all was said and done, I felt great! I had gotten everything off my chest, and he actually listened! We talked about how he becomes defensive, when i'm only trying to explain situations to him, and he told me he would work on that.

 

I feel extremely relieved, but at the same time, I feel a little wary... because nothing is ever this easy with him. I'm not sure if he said all of those things to shut me up and make me happy for the time being, or if he meant it. It does seem a little too good to be true that out of no where he decides he wants to hear what I have to say and make an effort to work on it. Only time will tell I guess.

 

Wow! That's great! I've been waiting for her to have an epiphany like that for quite some time. We'll see what happens.

 

Good luck to you, I hope it all works out.

[Calendula]

I'm new to this forum, and I just finished reading the entire thread concerning this issue. I have not, however, read your previous posts and threads, so perhaps I'm missing something, but I though I would post anyway. I agree with a lot of the posts that have been made by other users, but I would like to add my two cents.

 

 

But i've committed myself to this. At this point, breaking up is the last resort. Very last resort.

 

I'm also afraid that they aren't going to change. I'm not sure of the backround of your relationship with your girlfriend, but I know that my fiance never used to be like this. He actually used to be the complete opposite. He used to always care if what he was doing was upsetting me, and if it was, he wouldn't hesitate to change it. Which gives me hope that maybe this is just a phase he is going through, and he will revert back to his old ways after awhile.

 

I've experienced the pain that comes along with losing him, and him I... and we've both come to the conclusion that whatever we are going through isn't anywhere near as painful as being without each other is.

 

So since we've both established that being without them, is most definitely something we don't want to do... we need to figure out some way to make it work. I think if we both put our minds together, we can come up with a plan to at least experiment with.

 

Ahhh where to begin!

 

 

Why is breaking up not an option? While there is pain and fear that has to be dealt with in order to be happy being alone, could it really be that much worse than dealing with what you are facing now? In my opinion ending it should always be an option, even if a very remote one, regardless of the relationship status, especially if you are not happy and there doesn't seem to be any way to truly make it work (for whatever reason). The only constant in this world that I've seen so far is that people will always change, just not always in the way that you want them to. I also know that you can NEVER go back to the way things were before. No matter how much you may want to or try to, or how much you may love someone. The events you've been discussing on this forum and everything that came before will be with you always, and will affect every future relationship you have, including the one you are currently in, just as your relationship with your 'ex' is affecting your current relationship.

 

With that said, just because you've invested however many years into this relationship, why do you feel that this is an automatic reason to invest so many more? Especially if it looks like so many of the future years may involve you holding your breath and waiting for him to change to become something that you want him to be? If you really think about it, the WHY of why you want to be with this person for the rest of your life, what do you come up with? Are you afraid that you won't find someone else that you can love as much in the future? Are you afraid of being alone? Are you worried that you will look back and ask what if? Are you worried that he may find someone that he likes more than he likes you? I may be completely on the wrong track, but WHY is living without this person in your life not an option, initial pain of loss and lonliness aside? If you do get married and he moves away for three years, won't you be without him anyway?

 

I think it is a logical fallacy to continue doing something just because you have done it for so long. If you wake up one day and honestly evaluate your life and your relationship with this person and you decide that it no longer fits who and what you have become (grown into), should you keep doing it just because you've done it for so long, even though it no longer gives you what you want from life? I'm not saying to be unfaithful, or to to abandon your commitments, but I believe that you have to allow yourself the freedom to change, and the person you are with has to choose to change with you in order for you to continue being happy together.

 

From your profile, you are only 22; I'm not much older than you (27) but I do know that in the past 5 years I have grown to be a very different (more mature, independent, strong) person than I was at 22. It wasn't easy, I've had my share of painful and soul searching experiences, but I can truly say that I have no regrets in life or love.

 

When I was 16, an 18 year old friend of mine married a man 8 yrs her senior and had two kids within as many years. She never finished high school, never left the small country town she was born in, and now probably never will. While this has nothing to do with your current situation, I tell this story because it made me think about my own life. After observing many of the lives and relationships around me, I made the decision to live my life for me, first and foremost, as I believe that to be truly happy I have to make decisions for me and my life primarilly, and secondarily for other people. If I cannot find happiness within myself from my own life, how can I truly bring it to a relationship and share my life with another person, as a partner? If I can't understand myself and why I do and feel the things I do, how can I reasonably expect someone else to be able to, and how could I even try and explain myself to them?

 

Have you ever thought about if you have found your own sense of purpose for your life, and your own independent source of happiness with yourself? Does your sense of purpose or degree of happiness depend upon the happiness of the person you are with? If so, why do you think this might be? If not, have you ever thought about what truly would make you happy in life, and in a partner, not just in the person you are currently engaged to?

 

Even if you do decide to continue to send your energy into making your relationship with this man work, and not break up, why is it so important to YOU to get married so soon? Why would waiting the three years your fiance is stationed elsewhere be such a bad thing? If it is meant to be, if you are truly meant to spend the rest of your life with this person, won't it last that long? If what you have with him is truly special, true love and devotion, won't it wait?

 

I think you are absolutely correct in trying to work out these issues with your fiance before getting married. It shouldn't truly matter how much time or money it takes (postponed wedding, etc), or who is inconvienced (family, etc), because this is YOUR life that you are making a decision for. Don't let other people, or yourself, justify a major life decision like this with trivial considerations. Don't do what is easy, do what is right for you, and make sure that you are confident in what this is.

[Phateless]

I'm new to this forum, and I just finished reading the entire thread concerning this issue. I have not, however, read your previous posts and threads, so perhaps I'm missing something, but I though I would post anyway. I agree with a lot of the posts that have been made by other users, but I would like to add my two cents.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why is breaking up not an option? While there is pain and fear that has to be dealt with in order to be happy being alone, could it really be that much worse than dealing with what you are facing now? In my opinion ending it should always be an option, even if a very remote one, regardless of the relationship status, especially if you are not happy and there doesn't seem to be any way to truly make it work (for whatever reason). The only constant in this world that I've seen so far is that people will always change, just not always in the way that you want them to. I also know that you can NEVER go back to the way things were before. No matter how much you may want to or try to, or how much you may love someone. The events you've been discussing on this forum and everything that came before will be with you always, and will affect every future relationship you have, including the one you are currently in, just as your relationship with your 'ex' is affecting your current relationship.

 

With that said, just because you've invested however many years into this relationship, why do you feel that this is an automatic reason to invest so many more? Especially if it looks like so many of the future years may involve you holding your breath and waiting for him to change to become something that you want him to be? If you really think about it, the WHY of why you want to be with this person for the rest of your life, what do you come up with? Are you afraid that you won't find someone else that you can love as much in the future? Are you afraid of being alone? Are you worried that you will look back and ask what if? Are you worried that he may find someone that he likes more than he likes you? I may be completely on the wrong track, but WHY is living without this person in your life not an option, initial pain of loss and lonliness aside? If you do get married and he moves away for three years, won't you be without him anyway?

 

I think it is a logical fallacy to continue doing something just because you have done it for so long. If you wake up one day and honestly evaluate your life and your relationship with this person and you decide that it no longer fits who and what you have become (grown into), should you keep doing it just because you've done it for so long, even though it no longer gives you what you want from life? I'm not saying to be unfaithful, or to to abandon your commitments, but I believe that you have to allow yourself the freedom to change, and the person you are with has to choose to change with you in order for you to continue being happy together.

 

From your profile, you are only 22; I'm not much older than you (27) but I do know that in the past 5 years I have grown to be a very different (more mature, independent, strong) person than I was at 22. It wasn't easy, I've had my share of painful and soul searching experiences, but I can truly say that I have no regrets in life or love.

 

When I was 16, an 18 year old friend of mine married a man 8 yrs her senior and had two kids within as many years. She never finished high school, never left the small country town she was born in, and now probably never will. While this has nothing to do with your current situation, I tell this story because it made me think about my own life. After observing many of the lives and relationships around me, I made the decision to live my life for me, first and foremost, as I believe that to be truly happy I have to make decisions for me and my life primarilly, and secondarily for other people. If I cannot find happiness within myself from my own life, how can I truly bring it to a relationship and share my life with another person, as a partner? If I can't understand myself and why I do and feel the things I do, how can I reasonably expect someone else to be able to, and how could I even try and explain myself to them?

 

Have you ever thought about if you have found your own sense of purpose for your life, and your own independent source of happiness with yourself? Does your sense of purpose or degree of happiness depend upon the happiness of the person you are with? If so, why do you think this might be? If not, have you ever thought about what truly would make you happy in life, and in a partner, not just in the person you are currently engaged to?

 

Even if you do decide to continue to send your energy into making your relationship with this man work, and not break up, why is it so important to YOU to get married so soon? Why would waiting the three years your fiance is stationed elsewhere be such a bad thing? If it is meant to be, if you are truly meant to spend the rest of your life with this person, won't it last that long? If what you have with him is truly special, true love and devotion, won't it wait?

 

I think you are absolutely correct in trying to work out these issues with your fiance before getting married. It shouldn't truly matter how much time or money it takes (postponed wedding, etc), or who is inconvienced (family, etc), because this is YOUR life that you are making a decision for. Don't let other people, or yourself, justify a major life decision like this with trivial considerations. Don't do what is easy, do what is right for you, and make sure that you are confident in what this is.

 

Only skimmed your post, but you make some very solid points. Two things come to mind.

 

1. One of my buddies always mentions how the vast majority of the population is motivated more by avoiding pain than by seeking pleasure. This leads to a life of low risk, complacency, and fear of change. Not cool.

 

2. My sister (psychology major) mentioned the concept of sunk costs. All the emotional investment is in the past, and there is a compulsion to stick it out to validate to ourselves all that we've invested previously.

 

For example - a $10k car sticks you with a $5k repair bill. You pay it. A year later it requires another $5k repair bill. Should you spend ANOTHER $5k to make good on the $5k you already spent, or should you call it a loss, keep the $5k and put it toward a better car?

 

The problem is that taking action based on #2 is very difficult because point #1.

[Calendula]

If you allow fear of pain and avoidance of change to dictate your decisions in life, you will eventually get stuck in an endless cycle of investing your time and energy into something with diminishing returns on your investment. If you think about it in the car/money terms that you use as an example, you have to continually re-evaluate your options. If you only have $5000 and no options for purchasing a better car for less than that, then you might as well fix the one you have (regardless of how much it initially cost). If you have better options, then why not take them, even if it means a bit of short term inconvenience? Say your friend will sell you his car for $7000 and you have to take on $2000 in debt, but at least you have a better car, and the debt is worth the lack of hassle and time that the old car would have required to fix (in addition to the money).

 

There comes a point when it is best to swallow your losses and move on. If you were investing in the stock market, would you continuously put all of your hard earned savings into an account that keeps loosing value? If you do, whose fault is it? Yours for continuing to invest or the account’s for not getting very good returns on your investment? I'm not saying to lay blame on others, but you have to be understanding and aware of reality. People can’t always help the way they are, and some people aren’t going to change the way we may want them to, no matter how much we invest in them

 

Just like in all other areas of life, the degree of risk is directly proportional to the potential for reward and growth. The pessimist would say that it is also proportional to the degree of possible pain and loss. The trick is viewing the pain and misery that can come from taking the risk as a learning experience from which you can change, grow, and learn to make better decisions for your life and the lives of those you love.

 

When the time is right, you have to let the past stay in the past. You can't forget it or erase it, but you can learn from it.

[EricaH329]

I'm new to this forum, and I just finished reading the entire thread concerning this issue. I have not, however, read your previous posts and threads, so perhaps I'm missing something, but I though I would post anyway. I agree with a lot of the posts that have been made by other users, but I would like to add my two cents.

 

Wow, you had a lot to read Thank you for taking the time to do so, and replying!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why is breaking up not an option? While there is pain and fear that has to be dealt with in order to be happy being alone, could it really be that much worse than dealing with what you are facing now? In my opinion ending it should always be an option, even if a very remote one, regardless of the relationship status, especially if you are not happy and there doesn't seem to be any way to truly make it work (for whatever reason). The only constant in this world that I've seen so far is that people will always change, just not always in the way that you want them to. I also know that you can NEVER go back to the way things were before. No matter how much you may want to or try to, or how much you may love someone. The events you've been discussing on this forum and everything that came before will be with you always, and will affect every future relationship you have, including the one you are currently in, just as your relationship with your 'ex' is affecting your current relationship.

 

With that said, just because you've invested however many years into this relationship, why do you feel that this is an automatic reason to invest so many more? Especially if it looks like so many of the future years may involve you holding your breath and waiting for him to change to become something that you want him to be? If you really think about it, the WHY of why you want to be with this person for the rest of your life, what do you come up with? Are you afraid that you won't find someone else that you can love as much in the future? Are you afraid of being alone? Are you worried that you will look back and ask what if? Are you worried that he may find someone that he likes more than he likes you? I may be completely on the wrong track, but WHY is living without this person in your life not an option, initial pain of loss and lonliness aside? If you do get married and he moves away for three years, won't you be without him anyway?

 

To sum it up, going into this relationship with him for a second time, I made a promise to myself and him (but more importantly, myself), that I would not run away from our problems anymore. That I would do everything in my power to work on this relationship. The first time around, I realize that I didn't handle things the way I should have. Which, I believe, had a lot to do with why we broke up in the first place. I've learned from the mistakes I made, and i'm doing what I can to better myself (whether it's in this relationship or not).

 

It really has nothing to do with being afraid of being alone, because that's not an issue to me. Physically, i'm already alone. I've been alone for the past 6 months now.

 

 

I think it is a logical fallacy to continue doing something just because you have done it for so long. If you wake up one day and honestly evaluate your life and your relationship with this person and you decide that it no longer fits who and what you have become (grown into), should you keep doing it just because you've done it for so long, even though it no longer gives you what you want from life? I'm not saying to be unfaithful, or to to abandon your commitments, but I believe that you have to allow yourself the freedom to change, and the person you are with has to choose to change with you in order for you to continue being happy together.

 

From your profile, you are only 22; I'm not much older than you (27) but I do know that in the past 5 years I have grown to be a very different (more mature, independent, strong) person than I was at 22. It wasn't easy, I've had my share of painful and soul searching experiences, but I can truly say that I have no regrets in life or love.

 

When I was 16, an 18 year old friend of mine married a man 8 yrs her senior and had two kids within as many years. She never finished high school, never left the small country town she was born in, and now probably never will. While this has nothing to do with your current situation, I tell this story because it made me think about my own life. After observing many of the lives and relationships around me, I made the decision to live my life for me, first and foremost, as I believe that to be truly happy I have to make decisions for me and my life primarilly, and secondarily for other people. If I cannot find happiness within myself from my own life, how can I truly bring it to a relationship and share my life with another person, as a partner? If I can't understand myself and why I do and feel the things I do, how can I reasonably expect someone else to be able to, and how could I even try and explain myself to them?

 

Have you ever thought about if you have found your own sense of purpose for your life, and your own independent source of happiness with yourself? Does your sense of purpose or degree of happiness depend upon the happiness of the person you are with? If so, why do you think this might be? If not, have you ever thought about what truly would make you happy in life, and in a partner, not just in the person you are currently engaged to?

 

I know that i'm only 22, but i've been through a lot. A lot more than any other 22 year old I know has. I've moved around alot, lived on my own in states far away from my family and friends, I started doing what most 21 year olds do now when I was about 15. I'm not trying to imply that i've learned everything I can, we all continue to learn until the day we die. But, what I am trying to say, is that i've experienced and learned from all those things that I went through. And after all is said and done, I know what I want from life now. I want to settle down and get married and have children. I've wanted this for some time now, and the guys that I met along the way just didn't fit into my idea of the life I wanted.

 

I'm very happy alone. But i'm even happier when i'm with someone that I love. I love my fiance. I was just talking about this the other day, how when I was younger I would hear people telling me "Relationships are a lot of work, and they are hard." I never really knew what that meant until I met my fiance. Anytime things would get hard with my ex's, I would leave. To me, they weren't worth the fight. I've found the one person that's worth the fight.

 

 

Even if you do decide to continue to send your energy into making your relationship with this man work, and not break up, why is it so important to YOU to get married so soon? Why would waiting the three years your fiance is stationed elsewhere be such a bad thing? If it is meant to be, if you are truly meant to spend the rest of your life with this person, won't it last that long? If what you have with him is truly special, true love and devotion, won't it wait?

 

I think you are absolutely correct in trying to work out these issues with your fiance before getting married. It shouldn't truly matter how much time or money it takes (postponed wedding, etc), or who is inconvienced (family, etc), because this is YOUR life that you are making a decision for. Don't let other people, or yourself, justify a major life decision like this with trivial considerations. Don't do what is easy, do what is right for you, and make sure that you are confident in what this is.

 

It's not that I feel like it's important for me to get married so soon, as I recently realized, there are problems in our relationship that need to come first. The wedding date has been postponed, not by much, but I made sure to let my fiance know that working on our relationship comes first and foremost. I think he must have realized that i'm very serious, and decided to help me work on our relationship.

 

I hope this answers your questions. I'm sorry if I misunderstood anything. I really appreciate the advice you are giving and the time you are taking to give it. Thank you!

[Phateless]

If you allow fear of pain and avoidance of change to dictate your decisions in life, you will eventually get stuck in an endless cycle of investing your time and energy into something with diminishing returns on your investment. If you think about it in the car/money terms that you use as an example, you have to continually re-evaluate your options. If you only have $5000 and no options for purchasing a better car for less than that, then you might as well fix the one you have (regardless of how much it initially cost). If you have better options, then why not take them, even if it means a bit of short term inconvenience? Say your friend will sell you his car for $7000 and you have to take on $2000 in debt, but at least you have a better car, and the debt is worth the lack of hassle and time that the old car would have required to fix (in addition to the money).

 

There comes a point when it is best to swallow your losses and move on. If you were investing in the stock market, would you continuously put all of your hard earned savings into an account that keeps loosing value? If you do, whose fault is it? Yours for continuing to invest or the account’s for not getting very good returns on your investment? I'm not saying to lay blame on others, but you have to be understanding and aware of reality. People can’t always help the way they are, and some people aren’t going to change the way we may want them to, no matter how much we invest in them

 

Just like in all other areas of life, the degree of risk is directly proportional to the potential for reward and growth. The pessimist would say that it is also proportional to the degree of possible pain and loss. The trick is viewing the pain and misery that can come from taking the risk as a learning experience from which you can change, grow, and learn to make better decisions for your life and the lives of those you love.

 

When the time is right, you have to let the past stay in the past. You can't forget it or erase it, but you can learn from it.

 

Cal, that was actually my point. After a certain point it becomes necessary to swallow your losses and move on. It's just hard to accept that it's time to call it a loss.

[Mary3]

I'm going to stop at post # 21 and say a few thigs. I might jump around a bit but I need to get my thoughts out :

 

Your fiance is seriously pissed. He is mad at your ex and he is mad at YOU.

 

Your fiance needs in his mind to seek some sort of revenge. His first strike was contacting HIS ex . TRUST me this is not GOOD ! He may blow it off but HERE is what gives his bitterness AWAY : His nasty off handed never ending remarks and comments about you sleeping with your Ex.

 

This fiance of yours is very bitter . Its consuming him.

 

I am going to say something that will undoubetdly hurt you. I think your fiance is falling OUT of love with you. The deceit ( as he sees it ) will fester until he blows. Hopefully he does not blow on his ex girlfriend...

 

If his ex has a hidden agenda , this guy might not be yours much longer. If your fiance has his own hidden agenda , he might sleep with her because he is NOT in his right mind.

 

He wants to KILL your ex. Believe that !