Banging head again

[NoIDidn't]

I wasn't enough and I have to accept that.

 

This a little off topic, but I feel its important enough to address.

 

The A he had with you wasn't about you or your being enough, it was about him and how he was responding to the lack of intimacy in his marriage.

 

Please don't give that kind of thought residence in your head. Its not true and has no bearing on what eventually happened.

[Sanafa]

This a little off topic, but I feel its important enough to address.

 

The A he had with you wasn't about you or your being enough, it was about him and how he was responding to the lack of intimacy in his marriage.

 

Please don't give that kind of thought residence in your head. Its not true and has no bearing on what eventually happened.

 

 

I think you mean that well.

 

But it is true, he wasn't happy and lived parallel for years..... while what we had was of course about him and me.... It was real NID and even long before the NC thing... I said I was tired of trying to make it less than... and I really am.

 

We had a fantastic frickin relationship... it wasn't just sex... it was honesty ( about both us), acceptance and love. I taught him things, he taught me things.... it wasn't always pretty but it was what it was.

 

I wasn't enough.... love isn't always enough... Di said it well.... He lost (My mm never had) the intimacy at home, and they drifted but that doesn't mean he hated it all, it worked for 25 years... and it will work most likely in a very similar way for the the next 25 years.

 

This wasn't just between two woman... truth, I am not certain if that was the case the choice would have been the same ( and honest... will never know so no use in guessing).

 

This was about his life as he knows it. His girls, his work, their company and the dozens of others entwined in their life... and yes, he loved her enough to try to make it work.

 

That is the reality.

 

I wasn't enough.... I don't mean that in derogatory manner to myself.... but his choice wasn't based on one thing...... and all I could offer was love and in truth a whole lot more pain should he had been selfish and choosen that.

 

I also know I am not an easy one to get over..... and he isn't either.... fact, real, and honest.

[NoIDidn't]

I think you mean that well.

 

But it is true, he wasn't happy and lived parallel for years..... while what we had was of course about him and me.... It was real NID and even long before the NC thing... I said I was tired of trying to make it less than... and I really am.

 

We had a fantastic frickin relationship... it wasn't just sex... it was honesty ( about both us), acceptance and love. I taught him things, he taught me things.... it wasn't always pretty but it was what it was.

 

I wasn't enough.... love isn't always enough... Di said it well.... He lost (My mm never had) the intimacy at home, and they drifted but that doesn't mean he hated it all, it worked for 25 years... and it will work most likely in a very similar way for the the next 25 years.

 

This wasn't just between two woman... truth, I am not certain if that was the case the choice would have been the same ( and honest... will never know so no use in guessing).

 

This was about his life as he knows it. His girls, his work, their company and the dozens of others entwined in their life... and yes, he loved her enough to try to make it work.

 

That is the reality.

 

I wasn't enough.... I don't mean that in derogatory manner to myself.... but his choice wasn't based on one thing...... and all I could offer was love and in truth a whole lot more pain should he had been selfish and choosen that.

 

I also know I am not an easy one to get over..... and he isn't either.... fact, real, and honest.

 

I disagree with you, but I get what you are saying. I don't think its wise to compare one person with an entire life.

 

I wish MP knew this is basically what they are doing when they enter into affairs. They aren't comparing the OP with their BS, they are comparing their life with the BS with all of its trappings to the possibility of a life with the OP. And in reality, the unknown - especially if there is a d-day or people suspect how the new couple came to be - will always lose out over the known.

 

I still don't think you weren't enough, you just didn't have enough history to draw him to you. But I do understand what you are saying. Said it many times myself about someone else, but there were different things I was up against. So I get it.

[Sanafa]

I disagree with you, but I get what you are saying. I don't think its wise to compare one person with an entire life.

 

I wish MP knew this is basically what they are doing when they enter into affairs. They aren't comparing the OP with their BS, they are comparing their life with the BS with all of its trappings to the possibility of a life with the OP. And in reality, the unknown - especially if there is a d-day or people suspect how the new couple came to be - will always lose out over the known.

 

I still don't think you weren't enough, you just didn't have enough history to draw him to you. But I do understand what you are saying. Said it many times myself about someone else, but there were different things I was up against. So I get it.

 

I get that... and we do agree here.

 

But here's the thing.... history.....doesn't equate true happiness.

 

I say that from experience. I was talking to a good friend last night and I said... I am not wired the same as most. I try to live completly honest with myself.

 

History can keep BOTH stuck... and that is not healthy for anyone, including kids, family...etc.

 

The past is the past.... hence history. I hope to god to never walk in the past, because as much as you try to hold on to it.... it is the past.

 

Children learn from their parents...... kids learn from those around them. FEAR is what keeps you stuck

 

And my biggest "argument" with DI.

 

DI isn't only staying because of the marriage... DI is staying out of fear of the unknown and til I die I will say that is no way to live, and nothing to teach.

[ladydesigner]

Sanafa you hit it right on the head for me. Although I do have history with my husband I do not have the emotional connection with him that I had with xOM by a longshot. At the time I would have given up everything to be with him. While I am trying to salvage my marriage I am beginning to think a lot of it is for the kids. I have a really great partnership and frienship with my husband, but the intimacy is tattered.

 

History can keep BOTH stuck... and that is not healthy for anyone, including kids, family...etc.

 

Hence I feel this statement to be so true and although I know I am not stuck it sure feels like it sometimes. I am 50/50 on my marriage making it and I hate the fact that I have kids that will have to deal with all this... that's what gets me the most.

[Sanafa]

Then in all honesty, why are you stuck?

 

If I was "stuck" I wouldn't be working on moving forward... would I?

 

I don't think anything between us will change.... but contrary to some views here, I also know I can move on with truth rather than having how I should "feel/behaviour" told to me.

 

I am many things.. but I seldom tell people they have to dance to my drums.

 

I found it freeing to clear the air and move on to the next step.

 

Stuck IMO... would have been to allow him to think for one second I would return to the affair or to be sending him... I want you back.... that is stuck.

 

I have not ever........ only forward from here..... doesn't mean I can't grow from my past or even appreciate and remember it....

[Devil Inside]

Di, did you at some point break NC? ... I didn't think you had ...but might have missed that.

 

I am actually looking forward to evaluating how I feel about the last Contact.... because to me, the pain prior (especially that past two weeks) far outweighed anything so far from the LC.

 

Still miss him...check... but honestly no more than I did last week (was a lot then and a lot now) haven't seen a big fluctuation

 

Might be crying to you all in a week....course... I may have done that anyway.....

 

The whole thing SUCKS... how many times have I said that now, starting to sound like a broken record

 

Once she and I agreed that we were doing NC neither of us broke it.

 

However, before then, we were doing an unofficial NC where the A was over but we would call and check on each other, or just want to say hi...it was awkward, torturous, and horrible. One of us would get defensive, then the other, we would argue about why it ended and whose fault it was. Then the next minute we loved each other and didn't want the other to hurt. We finally had a closure talk and decided the only way that we could move on was to have NC. I brought it up and she agreed.

[Devil Inside]

 

Yes DI I am in pain. Like Sanafa recently said I feel similar to this. I am not sure if NC is better than LC. Both hurt. Obviously with NC feelings will fade in time. DI do you feel your pain has lessened as each day goes by or does it feel the same?

My fear is that I will always have these feelings toward my xOM for the rest of my life. It really scares the heck out of me. It has never ever taken me this long to get over someone... ever.

 

LD my pain has lessened considerably. It gets better and better with each week that passes. I do not even feel a fraction as bad as I did when we broke up or when we started NC.

 

Now of course I can go back to a painful place pretty easily...like when I am triggered by music, or a memory, or back before I went NC...a picture on facebook. However, even now, the triggers don't cause as much pain as before.

 

One thing that would send me back down to that dark place however, is contacting her. It is guaranteed to leave me feeling anxious, distressed, alone, despairing, guilty, and empty.

 

There is nothing that would be worse for my mental state then contacting her...I know from experience.

 

LD until you go full NC you will continue to be triggered in the worst way. This relationship will never die because you still have contact. It is like having a wound that starts to heal and you pick the scab a little every day.

 

I know you feel that LC would be a better option...but can you really tell me you trust your feelings right now. I know I don't trust mine. Our feelings are what we used to get into an A...I mean who would logically decided that it is a good choice...NOBODY.

 

Look...withdrawal is hard...but living like this is a lot harder...and the good thing about withdrawal...it eventually ends.

[Sanafa]

Look...withdrawal is hard...but living like this is a lot harder...and the good thing about withdrawal...it eventually ends.

 

 

Devil.... Going to call you on something.....

 

You are sounding bitter.... the last couple days. Almost like you have shut down a part of you. I can understand why you would but it's sound almost like.

 

A different version of Pain? I know my anger hit me full on about 5 weeks of NC.

 

Maybe Jaded is a better word.... but something is not right.

[Devil Inside]

Sanafa you hit it right on the head for me. Although I do have history with my husband I do not have the emotional connection with him that I had with xOM by a longshot. At the time I would have given up everything to be with him. While I am trying to salvage my marriage I am beginning to think a lot of it is for the kids. I have a really great partnership and frienship with my husband, but the intimacy is tattered.

 

 

 

Hence I feel this statement to be so true and although I know I am not stuck it sure feels like it sometimes. I am 50/50 on my marriage making it and I hate the fact that I have kids that will have to deal with all this... that's what gets me the most.

 

LD do yourself a favor. If you really are 50/50 then you need to get yourself outside of the triangle, heal from losing your xOM, and go to MC and/or IC before deciding.

 

I am not saying stay, i am not saying leave, I am saying give yourself a chance to make a decision when you are in a more stable place...which you are not in right now.

[Devil Inside]

Devil.... Going to call you on something.....

 

You are sounding bitter.... the last couple days. Almost like you have shut down a part of you. I can understand why you would but it's sound almost like.

 

A different version of Pain? I know my anger hit me full on about 5 weeks of NC.

 

Maybe Jaded is a better word.... but something is not right.

 

It could be...and I am about 5 weeks out...you know me so well.

 

Yes, I am in pain. I am healing from losing a woman that I love. I am coping with finding out I was cheated on multiple times. I am coping with hurting my W with my actions. It is a lot to bear...and it may make me sound different.

 

I think that you are seeing a more logical, less emotional side come out in me. A side that really regrets being in an A. It does not mean I love my xOW any less, or that I cannot understand those in the same struggles...but I think the distance has taken away some of my cognitive distortions.

[Sanafa]

LD do yourself a favor. If you really are 50/50 then you need to get yourself outside of the triangle, heal from losing your xOM, and go to MC and/or IC before deciding.

 

I am not saying stay, i am not saying leave, I am saying give yourself a chance to make a decision when you are in a more stable place...which you are not in right now.

 

 

I agree... but I believe to really see what you NEED and WANT ... you have to take yourself OUT of the triangle

 

Meaning... away from both! That also allows your H to clear his head.

 

 

 

And hey Devil..

 

I hear you.... and my opinion (not that you asked) is the same as it is for LD

 

You really want to do the right thing for everyone? Everyone needs to step back and have some space. If you are right about your M.... the space for both you and your W will only reinforce it.

[ladydesigner]

I agree... but I believe to really see what you NEED and WANT ... you have to take yourself OUT of the triangle

 

Meaning... away from both! That also allows your H to clear his head.

 

I believe this will be the only way to have a clear mind. I asked for a separation shortly after my A ended and my H said he could not go backwards to move forward. Since then we have moved forwards then backwards and so on so forth. Recently I have begun to get those same feelings of indifference like I had before my A began and that scares me.

 

I am going to look for both a MC and IC, I don't feel me or my H can do this alone. I feel so bad for my kids, it breaks my heart to see how much they love their dad and I have these feelings of indifference. I feel as though I have been ripped apart.

[Sanafa]

I believe this will be the only way to have a clear mind. I asked for a separation shortly after my A ended and my H said he could not go backwards to move forward. Since then we have moved forwards then backwards and so on so forth. Recently I have begun to get those same feelings of indifference like I had before my A began and that scares me.

 

I am going to look for both a MC and IC, I don't feel me or my H can do this alone. I feel so bad for my kids, it breaks my heart to see how much they love their dad and I have these feelings of indifference. I feel as though I have been ripped apart.

 

Just be real LD... just be real.... You will figure out what you need too and do what is best for all.... I am sure of that.

[Sanafa]

Event one came and went ( last night)

 

9,000 people in a very large venue...... VIP seating of 26 rows/ 50 seats in each row.

 

Concert starts and I think ...whew were not close at all..... first set is done, I go to get up to go to the bar and WHAM! They (W and MM) are 4 rows behind us in the extact same seat numbers, so directly behind.

 

I recovered enough to go the other way, but totally freak when the second act came on and he decide to walk up the isle.

 

Sent him a text saying....easy tiger.... right here and of course on vibrate didn't hear it.

 

Managed to avoid being face to face.... however he did text back and it resulted in a 1 hour plus phone conversation today.

 

Now, before the hitting begins, I can tell you I am concerned.... however I am also willing to hear him out.

 

So far, he has yet again been totally honest and has not changed his position except that he would like to continue to work out our issues. I know, I know.

 

He also said he is comfortable in one forum... and doesn't overly feel like he is breaking NC. I told him to speak with his IC and see what his position is, and that while I was ok talking to this point... we are going down a slippery slope.

 

On a plus I got to express all of my "issues" and address some that have been eating me.... so for me, all my cards are on the table, and I believe his are as well...however I must admit, I do have Guilt about W... and the fact that I am sure she would not consider a couple calls and several texts this week as NC.

 

I am going to breathe, give myself sometime to let all that was said sink in, and decide what to do next.

 

I know many will say the "right" thing is to tell W... but personally, I am in the camp... if she didn't leave with all she knows.... this will not change anything and will only cause her more pain... and I don't think I can do that to her, me or him.

 

Anyway, told you I would be honest about the results of LC.... and I am still on the fence as to how I am feeling about it.

[Devil Inside]

I appreciate your honesty Sanafa...always have. You know that you are going to be slammed...but yet you put it out there...good for you...it shows that you want honest feedback and are not going to hide because you care that people here like you...I think it is the only way to get help here.

 

I want to encourage you to follow your gut on this being a slippery slope...especially because you fear his W has no idea how much contact you have had this week.

 

Rather than focus on what is helpful for him and his W...I want to focus on you. Are these discussions of your issues really helping or hurting? What is it that you are waiting to hear? Is there anything that you want to hear from him?

 

Sounds like he is not leaving his W, so other than him telling you he is getting a D...aren't you really just going in circles at this point?

 

Just be honest with yourself about what this contact is all about...because you will never truly be able to move on this way...IMO. Just take care of yourself.

[jwi71]

I want to jump in and change Devil Inside's question just a bit.

 

What do you want/need to hear to move on? What "answer" are you looking for that only HE can provide?

 

I think your thinking is still clouded (ahem, not foggy...so its getting better from my vantage).

 

And...I think I should extend a bit of an apology. When you first arrived you sounded rather trollish to me...it is clear you are not. Sometimes, based on words alone, it is hard to know who is "stirring" the pot and who is here to learn. You are clearly trying to learn. For that, I must apologize.

[PhoenixRise]

Sanafa

 

Just a few posts back you gave Devil Inside some pretty good advise about taking himself out of the triangle so that he could see things clearly.

 

You should think about taking your own advise.

 

If you are having secret conversations/texts/emails/etc with MM then you are still in the affair even if you are not having sex. The triangle continues.

 

Do you seriously think you can be "just friends" with a man you are in love with?

 

If his marriage ends, do you want to be at ground zero? Or do you want him to come to you when he is free and clear to love you as you clearly want to be loved?

 

If you are in the picture in any capacity if his marriage ends will he be able to look at himself in the mirror and know he actually gave his marriage a true chance (which is what he says he wants to do right?)

 

If you are going to go back to being the OW then that is your choice. Own it. Accept that this is what this continued contact means (Your gut already knows this is true). AND do whatever you can to guard your heart.

 

If you don't want to be the OW. Don't be the OW. AND don't let him treat you like you are.

[ladydesigner]

IMO this is the furthest thing from moving on... not being stuck. Let him be. Relationships break up all of the time and rarely does the other party entertain having to make sure the other is healed... in non marital/non committed relationships. Admittedly I am a bit confused by your posts. On one hand, you approach it like a free spirit. On the other hand it is as if you are holding a tie to him. One that seems to imply a continuum. Enough with the fence sitting. Either you own it for what it is... breaking NC... and tell him what you want from him or leave the guy alone. IMO you're messing with his head and seem to enjoy that he answers when you call. Get over it.

 

Although I understand what is being said here. It is always easier said than done. When there are true feelings attached to a person it is very hard to "get over it" Her MM did not need to respond back, but he did. Sure she broke NC but so did he..it takes two... I'm not saying this was right but getting over someone is just not that easy. In my case it would be best if my xOM never contacted me again. Then I wouldn't be reeled back into this thing every single time. Her XMM should not have responded if there was such a strict NC set in place. He obviously wanted to break NC. It's like me and my xOM, I stated NC he broke it then I broke it, I didn't have to break it.

[Devil Inside]

Although I understand what is being said here. It is always easier said than done. When there are true feelings attached to a person it is very hard to "get over it" Her MM did not need to respond back, but he did. Sure she broke NC but so did he..it takes two... I'm not saying this was right but getting over someone is just not that easy. In my case it would be best if my xOM never contacted me again. Then I wouldn't be reeled back into this thing every single time. Her XMM should not have responded if there was such a strict NC set in place. He obviously wanted to break NC. It's like me and my xOM, I stated NC he broke it then I broke it, I didn't have to break it.

 

Yes LD it is hard...so very hard. I know...I struggle with missing her still...every single day.

 

I also agree that he is playing his part in all of this. If he was really maintaining NC...he would be doing so.

 

However...if she or you do not want to be an OW...if you want to get past this feeling of anxiety and despair...waiting for them to contact you...not wanting them to contact you...wondering why they are not contacting you...then you have to go NC.

 

I know how you feel. This may not sink in today, tomorrow, or next week, but there will be a day when you look back and realize that the wound was kept open as long as you were maintaining contact with him.

 

There has to come a point where you say "I'm stuck. It makes no sense to keep trying to solve my problem with solutions that are not working." So ask yourself...is the solution of LC helping your problems? If it is...great...however, what I have read lately would indicate otherwise.

 

Please know these words come from a position of empathy. I know how it hurts to lose the love in an A that has ended. I know how it hurts to lose your best friend. I also know how it hurts to lose your mind and soul...and the best thing I ever did was go full NC. It may not be the answer for everybody...but it was for me and many others. Isn't it worth a try? Aren't you worth a try?

[ladydesigner]

Please know these words come from a position of empathy. I know how it hurts to lose the love in an A that has ended. I know how it hurts to lose your best friend. I also know how it hurts to lose your mind and soul...and the best thing I ever did was go full NC. It may not be the answer for everybody...but it was for me and many others. Isn't it worth a try? Aren't you worth a try?

 

I am worth a try DI and I am going to stay NC. i just can't do this to myself anymore and I realized this today that the breaking of NC set me back again as much as I hate to admit. The feelings are of anxiety and despair no doubt about that. The hard part is that I have those same feelings within my own marriage too so it is kinda like I have no escape...wait I know there is an escape, but just not sure if I really want to be separated or not.

 

 

 

 

Her FMM is probably trying to maintain damage control IMO, but getting over relationships is a part of life. If someone can't take the heat... get out of the kitchen.

 

God isn't that the truth!! Yes I agree with you on the maintaining damage control . I think that is what my xOM was doing with me... probably so I would not confess the A to his SO.

[Devil Inside]

The hard part is that I have those same feelings within my own marriage too so it is kinda like I have no escape...wait I know there is an escape, but just not sure if I really want to be separated or not.

 

 

 

Great insight LD. Maybe this is why you started this A in the first place. So whether to separate or not is a big deal. I think that you should do yourself the favor or getting some counseling, and getting some NC under your belt first. Us parents always have a lot to consider. Seperation can be tough on them...but so can parental conflict...so just be sure...ya know?

[ladydesigner]

I think that you should do yourself the favor or getting some counseling, and getting some NC under your belt first. Us parents always have a lot to consider. Seperation can be tough on them...but so can parental conflict...so just be sure...ya know?

 

Yes DI counseling is a must!! I just need my damn insurance to go through. Kids play a HUGE factor into a decision like a separation or divorce because we are amicable as far as the kids can see, but the hugging and kissing is just not there. My own parents were not very loving as far as that stuff goes and also I saw my Mom have 2 affairs. I just don't want to make the same mistake as my parents and my kids grow up watching parents that do not hold hands, cuddle, and what not. I have already repeated what my own mother did by having an affair. God I am so mad at myself for having done that...why didn't I just get my a** and my husbands a** into marriage counseling to begin with...aaarrrggghhhh:mad: It's just all so....why?... why do I see things clearly now and not before?

[silktricks]

why do I see things clearly now and not before?

 

Because for some reason you couldn't then - so don't beat yourself up over the past. You see more clearly now. Be glad of that!!

[Sanafa]

I understand that it takes 'two to tango' but the initial contact made by her to her FMM was under the auspices that she needed help coping. He offered to pay for her counseling. One can't play both sides of the fence and claim they're owning it.

 

I dated quite a bit and had several relationships before getting married. No, getting over someone isn't easy, but it is done all of the time... especially without contacting the guy telling him you can't handle it. A single fella would have told her to bug off. Her FMM is probably trying to maintain damage control IMO, but getting over relationships is a part of life. If someone can't take the heat... get out of the kitchen.

 

There is a great deal to respond to here, and I will. I just want to clarify that I did not " make anything" appear.

 

The one thing I am is honest.... I asked him to address some questions, I didn't need him to save me, I needed him to own his part and be accountable for the choices he made. He offered counselling ( it is who he is) but not once have I said I "needed" him to fix it. I need him to show me respect and answer me as he would anyone that he has had a relationship with.

 

As well, It is a mutual choice as many have said.... and he has taken positive from the conversations as well - so please spare me that he doesn't have a choice as it appears in a post like this. I have not forced him at all in fact. I was very aggressive in my last email and clear - which garnered a response, from there to be honest.... He has done 90% of the initiating.

 

However, I am not about to dance with "who did what"... contact has been made, and we have discussed a lot that needed to be discussed.

 

What I do with this now, again to be 100% honest - I am trying to figure this out.

 

This is a first affair - and while nothing has changed.... nothing has changed, we are still in love one another.... so please, nothing is ever black or white... and while I often hold a more philosiphical view of our relationship... I am far from perfect and yes ---- I sit on the fence the same way a BS sits on the fence, why? Because I love him.

 

Am I strong enough to get through this and make the right choices, I believe so... and I also believe we will do it with compassion and the same love that brought us here will let us grow on our own.

 

I will talk/share a little more later... but It bothered me to hear I suggested I "needed' him.... I never said that... I said I "needed" him to take ownership...... and he is/has/did.