Banging head again

[Sanafa]

If someone can't take the heat... get out of the kitchen.

 

Lovely...seriously now

 

What "damage" could I have done???? Call the W and say he won't talk to me:laugh:

 

He is not worried about "damage" control and while I understand many BS will be horrified that not only has he broken NC but also initiate more contact.... he was certainly not worried about any further damage from my camp.

 

We had a horrible DDay.... one that I don't wish on my worst enemy. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING was swept under the rug... and he also knows me, I will not hurt her anymore, especially to get "back at him"....

 

Not in me and if he needed proof - he had it when I was going through my anger stage ( and it was very much that). If I was going to pull the trigger on anything else.... would have already been done.

 

 

You make it sound as if " he really doesn't wanna ....but you know, he is just cause"

[NoIDidn't]

I understand that it takes 'two to tango' but the initial contact made by her to her FMM was under the auspices that she needed help coping. He offered to pay for her counseling. One can't play both sides of the fence and claim they're owning it.

 

I dated quite a bit and had several relationships before getting married. No, getting over someone isn't easy, but it is done all of the time... especially without contacting the guy telling him you can't handle it. A single fella would have told her to bug off. Her FMM is probably trying to maintain damage control IMO, but getting over relationships is a part of life. If someone can't take the heat... get out of the kitchen.

 

Great post! And I totally agree. No one would ever expect some single guy to help them get over him. That's one of the most backwards things I've ever heard, to be honest.

 

But it seems like he is doing damage control. He doesn't want his W to know the extent of his feelings for Sanafa. And he doesn't want Sanafa to know the extent of his feelings for his W. Sounds like he is trying to keep Sanafa close enough to not want to spill all to his W, and do things publicly with his W so that Sanafa would look like a bunny boiler to his W.

 

Ahhhh, damage control. And I'm not afraid to say it, I told you where this was going. NC is the best thing for ending an affair. Anything other than that is always going to be "slippery slope".

[Sanafa]

Great post! And I totally agree. No one would ever expect some single guy to help them get over him. That's one of the most backwards things I've ever heard, to be honest.

 

But it seems like he is doing damage control. He doesn't want his W to know the extent of his feelings for Sanafa. And he doesn't want Sanafa to know the extent of his feelings for his W. Sounds like he is trying to keep Sanafa close enough to not want to spill all to his W, and do things publicly with his W so that Sanafa would look like a bunny boiler to his W.

 

Ahhhh, damage control. And I'm not afraid to say it, I told you where this was going. NC is the best thing for ending an affair. Anything other than that is always going to be "slippery slope".

 

And sounds to me like you both NEED to believe that.

 

I am going to dinner... before I say something I will regret....but let me just state the facts.

 

I emailed.... didn't make any contact for I don't week and a half... he texted me.... from there a phone call.

 

From there... I told him I was ok, the talk helped and no need for more... last week I recieved an additional 3 texts... 2 I responded, the other I did not.

 

On Saturday... I texted regarding how close we were and to avoid putting us in a bad situation ( all three btw).

 

He called yesterday.... and we talked for over an hour.

 

I KNOW wives hate hearing this.... I get it... but for the love of god, understand that because they say they are being honest.... doesn't mean they are!!!!!!

 

Oh... but yes, he is telling his wife.... I am the bunny boiler..... oh and on top of that... that my anger over a month ago ( which resulted in NO additional spill)...... gave him reason to believe that NOW, I am much more calm.... I may spill

 

Give it a rest ladies.... it's tiresome. I have no problem addressing legitimate posts ( many here that I will when I am back this evening)

 

Again...If you need to condemn and make less of in order to believe your WS... by all means.... as I said if nothing I have learned.... We ALL believe what we need to, to survive.

[Sanafa]

You will note by reading my post(s) that I'm not setting up BS/WS/OM/OW camps. Far from in fact. I'm merely stating a fact. Moreover, I haven't minimized your 'feelings' or his. I wouldn't know.

 

You were in a relationship with a man (married). You break up and now want to whine and cry over it going back to the guy asking him to help you through it... All this after promising to leave the guy alone.

 

I'll say it again... if he were single he'd tell you to get lost and to 'double your dosage'. But in this dynamic you are able to elicit a response (for whatever reasons) and IMO because you know you can you are manipulating the situation. You're manipulating it because it gives you relief to see that you still have emotional strings you can yank on.

All of this in light of you waxing poetic about how love cannot have strings and all of the free spirit essence that goes with it. I said earlier... if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. If you cannot deal with the ending of a relationship then get some professional help. Don't emotionally manipulate someone. IMO that's precisely what you're doing.

 

Now, I don't care if he's married or single. You don't have an ending to a relationship and then do what you're doing. It isn't healthy. Moreover it isn't respectful to the other party... or is it fair.

 

Leave the guy alone. Get therapy. If it turns out that your ex-boyfriend leaves his wife and is free... hey then throw a party and talk your brains out. Until then stop being so needy... and no more headgames.

 

I'll start with the bolded

 

You show me ONE post where I (not you or someone else) I SAID he had to HELP me get over anything.

 

Listen, I am a lot of things, but also straight and to the point. I have always said and still believe he owed me the same courtesy and respect that he would give anyone...... and perhaps you leave your relationships as crumbs but I CHOOSE to leave them with just a little more dignity.

 

As I have also said before... this is not "new" I am and have remained friends with all but one ex.... see a pattern

 

Simply because you cannot see past your own beliefs does not make yours any more valid than mine.

 

I have not nor will I ever manipulate him (leave that to others).... stop assuming, as you know what they say and while I appreciate your computer assessment of my mental well being, I am happy to work this out on my own... my own way. And lastly - He is a grown man.... perhaps you would prefer to think MM are manipulated... and that might help you, but I assure you he is capable of making his own choices.

 

You are a BS - Sorry to spell that out for you, but it makes you being impartial - difficult ( and I have not seen it on one thread... anyones)...you are and always will be a BS. I find many here who make logical, non-judgmental statements, I am afraid I don't recall any from your camp -especially in relation to my posts. If you can't assist... ( and no one is asking you too) than by all means.....

 

.... Step away.

[NoIDidn't]

And sounds to me like you both NEED to believe that.

 

LOL. Its interesting how being in denial plays itself out.

 

 

I KNOW wives hate hearing this.... I get it... but for the love of god, understand that because they say they are being honest.... doesn't mean they are!!!!!!

 

Oh... but yes, he is telling his wife.... I am the bunny boiler..... oh and on top of that... that my anger over a month ago ( which resulted in NO additional spill)...... gave him reason to believe that NOW, I am much more calm.... I may spill

 

Give it a rest ladies.... it's tiresome. I have no problem addressing legitimate posts ( many here that I will when I am back this evening)

 

Again...If you need to condemn and make less of in order to believe your WS... by all means.... as I said if nothing I have learned.... We ALL believe what we need to, to survive.

 

Ahhh, and now, the deflection. No addressing what was actually said about NC being the way to go if you want genuine healing, just an attempt to belittle and demean by glorifying the A and painting the BS as willfully ignorant.

 

This has nothing to do with me. It is about YOU. And YOU are in denial. You will re-read these posts one day and agree that you didn't need to cling to him for the closure you need. Closure comes from within, not from someone else. No matter what was said.

 

I hope you enjoy your dinner and truly consider doing NC for real. You are playing with your (and his and his W's) mental health right now. The "slippery slope" is not a safe place to be. And it certainly doesn't lead to closure.

[Sanafa]

I want to jump in and change Devil Inside's question just a bit.

 

What do you want/need to hear to move on? What "answer" are you looking for that only HE can provide?

 

I think your thinking is still clouded (ahem, not foggy...so its getting better from my vantage).

 

And...I think I should extend a bit of an apology. When you first arrived you sounded rather trollish to me...it is clear you are not. Sometimes, based on words alone, it is hard to know who is "stirring" the pot and who is here to learn. You are clearly trying to learn. For that, I must apologize.

 

 

Going to respond to both you and DI .... here, instead of two posts, as they are similar.

 

For me, and strictly me it was addressing the situation we have now put ourselves in ( the upcoming events, our professional career's, etc) and to have some answers to some rather personal events that came out on DDay.... As I have said many times before... when DDay occur we were so busy with the magnitude of it ( it was big, threatening and extremely scary for all as we didn't know who was initially behind it) and add the guilt and pain I felt for his family and his W... we went weeks just holding each other up.

 

When we finally got to a place where we could "talk" we had one chance and another that we had scheduled but never transpired. I will still holding on to a great deal ( the events surrounding our DDay... what led to it, who was responsible, and a great deal of fear that he believed I was responsible). Because NC was placed prior to me finding out, I was holding on to and dealing with it alone - A lot to take in considering I was betrayed by a 20 year plus "friend" and also set up to ensure we ended.

 

Knowing we have to see each other, and thinking he would begin to doubt and even possible hate me based on someone else's doing was tough.... Now, if I would have found out a year or two after the fact - I may not have cared... but in the moment, I do care - very much.

 

So for me, literally being able to talk about all that happened, how and to be really honest with each other about the feelings that came from then until now, has been freeing....

 

So, now I have that.... and I clarified yet again that I will not in any uncertain terms return.... has been empowering as well. I know, contrary to popular belief that I am not stupid, nor do I think I am perfect... I know this could turn into a problem.... but now - here we are and I am working towards this doing exactly as I set out for it to do.

 

Clear the air, end with some compassion and appreciate what it was, when it was.

 

I am not saying I am right... but it is working for me, and as I said to him yesterday... I have to believe in myself ( my choice to never walk that road again) and him in his commitment to try to recover the marriage. We cannot disrespect the others choice and at this point, I do not believe we have.

 

If I knew what the house of cards would look like next week or next month or next year..... let's face it - I probably wouldn't be in the spot I am now.

[NoIDidn't]

You are a BS - Sorry to spell that out for you, but it makes you being impartial - difficult ( and I have not seen it on one thread... anyones)...you are and always will be a BS. I find many here who make logical, non-judgmental statements, I am afraid I don't recall any from your camp -especially in relation to my posts. If you can't assist... ( and no one is asking you too) than by all means.....

 

 

Wow. Just wow.

 

So will you always be nothing more than an OW?

 

This was such an unnecessary and untrue thing to say. I understand being upset that someone is being just as direct with you and you say that you are. But you have to be able to take it as well as you can give it, IMHO.

 

Imagine, just imagine, if someone were to say to you that "you are an OW. You are, and will ALWAYS be an OW" with the implication of "nothing more".

 

Such a mean thing to say. smh

 

smh

[Sanafa]

LOL. Its interesting how being in denial plays itself out.

 

 

 

 

Ahhh, and now, the deflection. No addressing what was actually said about NC being the way to go if you want genuine healing, just an attempt to belittle and demean by glorifying the A and painting the BS as willfully ignorant.

 

This has nothing to do with me. It is about YOU. And YOU are in denial. You will re-read these posts one day and agree that you didn't need to cling to him for the closure you need. Closure comes from within, not from someone else. No matter what was said.

 

I hope you enjoy your dinner and truly consider doing NC for real. You are playing with your (and his and his W's) mental health right now. The "slippery slope" is not a safe place to be. And it certainly doesn't lead to closure.

 

Ironic isn't it NID -As you were belittling me suggesting I had some special hold over him to get him to talk to me.

 

And no offence, but NID... when you get your back up.... it really comes down to your own issues and concerns.

 

Please.... I am being truthful... you may not like it, and you certainly don't have to agree.... but we dance a lot... and your issues or concerns are very much in the forefront when you respond.... I am not surprised that you want to belittle me first... however I am willing to own my part and I am pretty sure he would too.

[Sanafa]

Wow. Just wow.

 

So will you always be nothing more than an OW?

 

This was such an unnecessary and untrue thing to say. I understand being upset that someone is being just as direct with you and you say that you are. But you have to be able to take it as well as you can give it, IMHO.

 

Imagine, just imagine, if someone were to say to you that "you are an OW. You are, and will ALWAYS be an OW" with the implication of "nothing more".

 

Such a mean thing to say. smh

 

smh

 

 

I am the OW... and yes, it will always be a part of my past and in truth play in my opinions... not mean real.

 

I don't suggest I sit fairly between all as Lovely did.... so while you take it as mean.... I take it a reality... again big difference between being mean and stating the truth.

 

by the way... you made the " implication" not me.....

[Sanafa]

Sanafa

 

Just a few posts back you gave Devil Inside some pretty good advise about taking himself out of the triangle so that he could see things clearly.

 

You should think about taking your own advise.

 

If you are having secret conversations/texts/emails/etc with MM then you are still in the affair even if you are not having sex. The triangle continues.

 

Do you seriously think you can be "just friends" with a man you are in love with?

 

If his marriage ends, do you want to be at ground zero? Or do you want him to come to you when he is free and clear to love you as you clearly want to be loved?

 

If you are in the picture in any capacity if his marriage ends will he be able to look at himself in the mirror and know he actually gave his marriage a true chance (which is what he says he wants to do right?)

 

If you are going to go back to being the OW then that is your choice. Own it. Accept that this is what this continued contact means (Your gut already knows this is true). AND do whatever you can to guard your heart.

 

If you don't want to be the OW. Don't be the OW. AND don't let him treat you like you are.

 

 

Phoniex... thank you.....

 

I totally understand what you are saying and I have given some thought to it. I have made clear boundaries for myself and am respecting them as he is.

 

I won't lie... I don't know if we will talk again - I can say for me, I am ok with the talks, we dealt with things we truly needed to deal with and I do feel better walking away.

 

Very true about never wanting to be in the picture if things didn't work out - neither of us would ever know and it would bread resentment for both down the road.

 

I have been honest and even with the 2x4's will continue to be. I don't know all the answer's, but I know me and I knew what I need to clear up.

 

Do I miss him, yes--- but again no more than I did before, it has not increased it or changed my opinion of being able to go back into the "A". I was honest when I said I have come to care about his W as well... and when and IF I get those thoughts.... I will work through them... maybe here, maybe in my own writing space.

 

I am not saying they are not going to come... but I can say I am not in them today.

 

Today I am happy we got to address what happened, and funny we didn't talk about the "choice" much.... neither questioned that that was different... we did focus on what had happened and how we felt in regards to that.. and the challenges since then.

[NoIDidn't]

I am the OW... and yes, it will always be a part of my past and in truth play in my opinions... not mean real.

 

I don't suggest I sit fairly between all as Lovely did.... so while you take it as mean.... I take it a reality... again big difference between being mean and stating the truth.

 

by the way... you made the " implication" not me.....

 

What you stated wasn't the truth, though. And I said that when I addressed it the first time.

 

You didn't say that her being a bs would "always be a part of [her] past and in truth play in [her] opinions". You said she was "bs" and nothing more to it. You have been fairly articulate and intelligent in your posts, so I believe that if you meant it for her the way that you described it for yoruself, you have the words to have said it the first time. But you didn't.

 

So, its not real and its not the truth. I took it as an intimidation technique, and I am sure that others would as well. It wasn't called for.

 

When you first came to LS, you said you could see "both sides" of an A (implying/meaning the sides of the OP vs. the BS). So you did suggest that you "sit fairly between all" sides. But yet, a BS does it and you say that she can't.

 

You can't have it both ways, Sanafa.

 

Its one thing to be defensive when you feel that your position is being attacked. Its another thing to use a person's life experience as an insult. Unfortunately, its common in this forum.

[NoIDidn't]

Today I am happy we got to address what happened, and funny we didn't talk about the "choice" much.... neither questioned that that was different... we did focus on what had happened and how we felt in regards to that.. and the challenges since then.

 

See, this is what I don't get.

 

Why do you need to talk to him about what happened anymore? Its not going to change the outcome.

 

Why do you need to talk to him about the challenges since "then"? You are not in an intimate relationship with him (anymore). His W is. He should be talking to her, and not him.

 

I am asking this honestly because I don't see how you rationalize this. I don't understand the logic you are using to keep contacting him. And you are having a lot of contact with someone that you have supposedly broken up with. It might not be an A anymore, but I don't feel that its appropriate.

 

Are you speaking with his W about "what happened" and how is she dealing with "the challenges"? If you aren't, I don't see why you need to speak with him about it, at all.

[Sanafa]

What you stated wasn't the truth, though. And I said that when I addressed it the first time.

 

You didn't say that her being a bs would "always be a part of [her] past and in truth play in [her] opinions". You said she was "bs" and nothing more to it. You have been fairly articulate and intelligent in your posts, so I believe that if you meant it for her the way that you described it for yoruself, you have the words to have said it the first time. But you didn't.

 

So, its not real and its not the truth. I took it as an intimidation technique, and I am sure that others would as well. It wasn't called for.

 

When you first came to LS, you said you could see "both sides" of an A (implying/meaning the sides of the OP vs. the BS). So you did suggest that you "sit fairly between all" sides. But yet, a BS does it and you say that she can't.

 

You can't have it both ways, Sanafa.

 

Its one thing to be defensive when you feel that your position is being attacked. Its another thing to use a person's life experience as an insult. Unfortunately, its common in this forum.

 

 

What I said was she will always be a BS. That is the truth... you took more from it, and keep in mind I also replied to 4 posts as I actually wanted to take the time to reply to those that had more to say than dig's... which to be very honest was her initial post and your's directly behind it.

 

I do see both sides, and it sucks.... however it does not change that I am the OW.... I will always see things differently - it does not mean I will not have compassion or understanding for another or be able to offer my opinion in a respectable way.

 

Which IMO, both lovely and yourself choose not to do...again, I find her post insulting and as you say common as she could not phathom he is capable of his own choices and I must be holding something over his head.

 

Insulting to ME and to him..... so yes, I found the initial post derogatory and I responded.... as I did to you when you patted her on the back.

 

I don't apologize for that... as I said I can see both sides, but should you decide to attack my mental state and someone Else's ability to make their own choices.... as lovely said... be prepared for the fire or get out of the kitchen.

 

NID... you won't change your mind and when you talk about deflecting, you won't see that Lovely's original post was exactly what it was.... an attempt to belittle me as the OW..... with you patting her on the back for it.

 

Again, common not just in this forum

[Sanafa]

Well, to you I am nothing more than a BS and because I'm married had a husband cheat on me... I'm no longer just a woman. Now, I'm a BS in this pseudo cyber reality.

 

Everywhere in my life I'm just me. I walk and talk and I'm a full blown woman and seen for who I am. Here, I'm a LAMO BS who can't stand OW screwing my husband.

 

How weird is that?

 

I've read one of your previous posts leading to your first 'help me' phone call to your ex-boyfriend wherein you stated that he basically owed you emotional assistance and help (no differently than a spouse/BS) for his part in the relationship dynamic.

 

With all of the talk about how we grow and bring all the love along with us on this great big giant journey... it smacks as disingenuous when you say that this is all about closure. This is about asking an ex-boyfriend (again, I don't care if he's married or single) to help you through a break up.

 

I don't know how you expect to keep him as your 'friend' and move him forward actively in this role in your future. This is one boyfriend you can't hang onto without creating more confusion. That is the reality of the situation. If you want to create confusion for yourself and him... then keep it up. Because given the intensity you describe as your D'day you may be playing with fire.

 

This guy (for the time being) belongs to someone else... IMO she let you off the hook quite easily. She didn't have to. If/when she learns that the two of you are continuing as an EA (your relationship) don't be surprised if she comes after you like gangbusters.

 

If he were single he'd owe you absolutely nothing whatsoever at the conclusion of the relationship.

 

As for leaving crumbs behind. When I ended a relationship or one was ended for me I moved on. I didn't call the guy asking him to 'talk me through withdrawal'. IMO it is utterly childish and absurd... and part of this strange affair dynamic.

 

 

We have danced before

 

AGAIN... SHOW ME WHERE I POSTED THAT I NEED HIM .... stop saying you read this and that.... show me! I said I needed him to take accountability like he has with his Wife.

 

Regardless, while you see my position as childish and absurb - I see yours as cold and not appealing.... simple really.

 

Please do not tell me how I can and cannot move on...simply because you incapable or choose not to do something does not mean it can't be done.

 

BTW...also stop insinuating that we will be chatting after this.. If we do, I will share that, and not for your benefit... for mine - but for the meantime, as I said I clearly hit a nerve with you... I am ok with that and we don't have to like each other.... feel free to move on to another OW who you can assess.

[NoIDidn't]

AGAIN... SHOW ME WHERE I POSTED THAT I NEED HIM .... stop saying you read this and that.... show me! I said I needed him to take accountability like he has with his Wife.

 

 

Ahhhh, the real issue. And it is a problem because he doesn't owe you this. He owes this to his W.

 

And this is why your contact with him will only escalate.

 

You are an adult. So, you entered into an affair with him as an adult. And so you owe accountability for the affair to yourself. And he to himself and to his W. Not to you.

 

You won't be comforted with this escalating contact. It will only reinforce an affair dynamic between the two of you. And you will likely incur the wrath of his W when she finds out about it.

 

Have a good night, Sanafa. I hope you consider what is being said, even though you strongly disagree with it.

[Sanafa]

See, this is what I don't get.

 

Why do you need to talk to him about what happened anymore? Its not going to change the outcome.

 

Why do you need to talk to him about the challenges since "then"? You are not in an intimate relationship with him (anymore). His W is. He should be talking to her, and not him.

 

I am asking this honestly because I don't see how you rationalize this. I don't understand the logic you are using to keep contacting him. And you are having a lot of contact with someone that you have supposedly broken up with. It might not be an A anymore, but I don't feel that its appropriate.

 

Are you speaking with his W about "what happened" and how is she dealing with "the challenges"? If you aren't, I don't see why you need to speak with him about it, at all.

 

Do you know what happened on our DDay?

 

No you don't.... so judging without knowing is just that... you did not have our DDay or the repercussions we did, so you do not know.

 

As for his W... and I think I mentioned this in the first post after I spoke to him.... I am more than happy and told him as much that he may share anything or all with her.

 

I was also honest when I said I felt as if that may not happened and I was concerned ( yesterday).

 

You don't and can't know our situation.... it plays out like a book in terms of the initial bomb.....so please do not assume I am not being honest.

 

I needed to discuss ( we did not get to do that at anytime) what happened following and the truth in where it came from.

[Sanafa]

Ahhhh, the real issue. And it is a problem because he doesn't owe you this. He owes this to his W.

 

And this is why your contact with him will only escalate.

 

You are an adult. So, you entered into an affair with him as an adult. And so you owe accountability for the affair to yourself. And he to himself and to his W. Not to you.

 

You won't be comforted with this escalating contact. It will only reinforce an affair dynamic between the two of you. And you will likely incur the wrath of his W when she finds out about it.

 

Have a good night, Sanafa. I hope you consider what is being said, even though you strongly disagree with it.

 

And THIS is where we do and will always Disagree.

 

He and I had a relationship..... just like his wife... he did owe me the same courtesy..... so stop suggesting that one deserves something that other does not. I get why you wouldn't WANT them to give that to the OW... but they are just as entitled.... and just as human as the W.

[SidLyon]

And THIS is where we do and will always Disagree.

 

He and I had a relationship..... just like his wife... he did owe me the same courtesy..... so stop suggesting that one deserves something that other does not. I get why you wouldn't WANT them to give that to the OW... but they are just as entitled.... and just as human as the W.

 

I have to disagree with your continued and repeated assertions that:

 

- the OW is equally owed what the W is owed,

- that he needs to be accountable for what he did to the OW,

- that the OW has an entitlement to anything from him, or

- the relationship with the OW was " just like" that with his wife.

 

It is the sense of entitlement that allowed he and you to enter into the A in the first place. Obviously neither of you have lost that sense of entitlement or are even willing to acknowledge that it is wrong. Because it was an illicit affair you are owed very little other than common human decency and certainly not equal to or more than what his W is owed.

 

On LS You have repeatedly projected your own situation onto that of other BWs and WHs who are genuinely intending to recover their marriages. Yes, we all can see that your MM is not terribly sincere in trying to save his marriage. Some men are like that. I guess this is partly why you are still hanging around because you can see it too. I am pretty sure your A will resurrect itself at some stage. Happy to be proved wrong though.

 

There's no need for you to hint to other BWs that their situations are the same as yours. Some may be and others definitely aren't.

 

 

S

[Sanafa]

I have to disagree with your continued and repeated assertions that:

 

- the OW is equally owed what the W is owed,

- that he needs to be accountable for what he did to the OW,

- that the OW has an entitlement to anything from him, or

- the relationship with the OW was " just like" that with his wife.

 

It is the sense of entitlement that allowed he and you to enter into the A in the first place. Obviously neither of you have lost that sense of entitlement or are even willing to acknowledge that it is wrong. Because it was an illicit affair you are owed very little other than common human decency and certainly not equal to or more than what his W is owed.

 

On LS You have repeatedly projected your own situation onto that of other BWs and WHs who are genuinely intending to recover their marriages. Yes, we all can see that your MM is not terribly sincere in trying to save his marriage. Some men are like that. I guess this is partly why you are still hanging around because you can see it too. I am pretty sure your A will resurrect itself at some stage. Happy to be proved wrong though.

 

There's no need for you to hint to other BWs that their situations are the same as yours. Some may be and others definitely aren't.

 

 

S

 

Sid

 

We will always disagree about what "we" owe each other.. and I appreciate that.

 

I also believe that as much as I "assert" myself... so do many many others and often I try to only give my opinion.

 

Again, if you believe Lovely was correct in her initial post... it goes back to the pulling of teeth ( OW was nothing.... BS was nothing...etc). I have made it very clear why I took offense to her post and why I delivered the same back.

 

And I agree 100% that some are committed, some are not.... and I am as certain as I can be that we will not walk down that road again. However.... would it be more beneficial to not suggest that a MM could be as you put it "insincere". The one thing we all offer here is our own stories..... so while OW can clearly see it seldom works to their favor - is it not also a benefit to see that MM can also be very sincere to the Wife while still carrying on contact. Or is that the stuff no one should talk about? I think that is my frustration at times.... everyone wants to slam the OW and tell her " it must be like this" but when the OW suggests.... it could also be " like this"... everyone wants to go on flaming wars.. no different really.

 

I trust me and believe it or not, I trust him.... he needs to make his marriage work for his own reasons,

 

I need to know I am not second, for my own reasons.

[NoIDidn't]

And THIS is where we do and will always Disagree.

 

He and I had a relationship..... just like his wife... he did owe me the same courtesy..... so stop suggesting that one deserves something that other does not. I get why you wouldn't WANT them to give that to the OW... but they are just as entitled.... and just as human as the W.

 

SMH

 

This is why your contact will lead you into conflict. You are not his W. He does not owe you what he owes her. He betrayed her. He didn't betray you.

 

Being just as human as the W does not entitle you to what he vowed to her.

 

You are still asking him to choose while saying that you understand that he already has.

 

I hope, for his sake, that he starts to see this for himself and cuts back on responding to YOUR contacting him. Because it doesn't seem like he's the one reaching out first.

 

This isn't a game, Sanafa. You don't get to demand that he treat you like he treats her. His family was present when he promised her his love and support. Where were they for your affair? Did they even know about it? She can call his family for their support too. Are you going to call his family too? Are you entitled to their support too because of your relationship with him?

 

This is the problem with that logic. Its only going to get you hurt.

[NoIDidn't]

Ironic isn't it NID -As you were belittling me suggesting I had some special hold over him to get him to talk to me.

 

And no offence, but NID... when you get your back up.... it really comes down to your own issues and concerns.

 

Please.... I am being truthful... you may not like it, and you certainly don't have to agree.... but we dance a lot... and your issues or concerns are very much in the forefront when you respond.... I am not surprised that you want to belittle me first... however I am willing to own my part and I am pretty sure he would too.

 

This is textbook defensiveness.

 

When answering the question will reveal too much of one's own thinking, insult and deflect.

 

I see nothing belittling about telling you that you are in denial. And you are in denial - which is obviously why you can't see it.

[Sanafa]

SMH

 

This is why your contact will lead you into conflict. You are not his W. He does not owe you what he owes her. He betrayed her. He didn't betray you.

 

Being just as human as the W does not entitle you to what he vowed to her.

 

You are still asking him to choose while saying that you understand that he already has.

 

I hope, for his sake, that he starts to see this for himself and cuts back on responding to YOUR contacting him. Because it doesn't seem like he's the one reaching out first.

 

This isn't a game, Sanafa. You don't get to demand that he treat you like he treats her. His family was present when he promised her his love and support. Where were they for your affair? Did they even know about it? She can call his family for their support too. Are you going to call his family too? Are you entitled to their support too because of your relationship with him?

 

This is the problem with that logic. Its only going to get you hurt.

 

In all seriousness NID.... either read all the posts or refrain from posting.

 

As I said in a post, I emailed him.... all other contact other than the mutually agreed upon first phone call - has been his.

 

BUT as I said... I won't play the he did/she did.... it doesn't matter because as Adults we both choose to communicate.

 

I almost responded in the infidelity thread were the W said she felt her H had to man up and deal with the OW... believe it was siren

 

Kudo's to her... and obviously not all have the same opinion.

[Sanafa]

This is textbook defensiveness.

 

When answering the question will reveal too much of one's own thinking, insult and deflect.

 

I see nothing belittling about telling you that you are in denial. And you are in denial - which is obviously why you can't see it.

 

 

Says YOU

 

That's the problem.... assumptions and based on YOUR opinion.

 

And do you know what bothers me the most? When a thread that actually had some real- not necessarily positive responses that were helpful is littered with yet another battle between us.

 

Seriously, it is tiring... you believe I am wrong... GOT IT.... I believe you are in fear of this happening.... GOT that too.

 

It is useless to go in circles and perhaps the time I return to writing in my own world... Not because I fear a different opinion, at all, and almost all are against my choice with clear questions, while remaining polite.. it is the main reason I post... BUT this constant of "you know me".... is annoying as I am sure it is for you.

 

Lovely has literaly 20 posts and a September member and all of her posts I personally find a " I know this" I know that

 

Enjoy the battle.... with someone else.

[Sanafa]

When I came here.. it was because I wanted both opinions...... that is the truth. I had "issues" with some of the selling that goes on over both sides of the fence and I really wanted to have all sides to view.

 

Many have been as cool as can be, and I greatly appreciate that... while we do not always agree.... it has been respectful and appreciated. If I was afraid of difference, I would have remained simply on the OW forum

 

However, because I am honest... I take the heat... was also prepared to do that. BUT, I am not prepared to continue to dance around the same issues over and over again.

 

I have had a great deal of help, but when it comes down to spending two hours arguing about the exact same thing with the exact same poster... there is no benefit to that...and it isn't the first time.

 

I will say this..... it's the honesty thing again.... and if anyone can take anything from this little dance.

 

If you treat people who share their honesty with you as less than you ....you can't possibly expect them to continue to do it.

 

And I am recalling MM saying... I am trying to learn how to be honest with W..... perhaps that is a reason that many choose the easier road.

 

wish everyone luck in their own recovery... however that may be drawn.

[jennie-jennie]

Sanafa, sorry to see that you are considering leaving the forum. Can't you just ignore NID or actually even put her on Ignore?