Banging head again

[silktricks]

Sanafa - I hope you don't leave LS. Though sometimes the online "relationships" can be a bit trying, it is often a place where people can offer valuable insight as well. You are a valuable member and one I hope decides to remain.

[NoIDidn't]

Sanafa, sorry to see that you are considering leaving the forum. Can't you just ignore NID or actually even put her on Ignore?

 

Why did I get singled out? Everything I posted was civil and with respect.

 

Sure, she is free to place me on Ignore. And so are you. It won't hurt my feelings one bit.

 

I hope she doesn't leave the forum either. Nothing that has been posted by me to her was ever intended to make her consider leaving.

[skywriter]

Sanafa,

 

I understand exactly how you feel and what you are saying will always fall on deaf ears unfortunantly.

 

This is exactly why I will not post my situation on here. I do read and get alot out of "some" of the post responded by those who"understand" and do not "judge" or force their opinions.

 

I've been following your post and relate to you and how you feel.

 

People who respond here with unuseful nonsense , know who they are and what they are doing. It's so pathetic that they use the "it's a public forum" arguement to excuse themselves.

 

I say, grow the heck up and realise you are human too.

[silktricks]

As for leaving crumbs behind. When I ended a relationship or one was ended for me I moved on. I didn't call the guy asking him to 'talk me through withdrawal'. IMO it is utterly childish and absurd... and part of this strange affair dynamic.

 

The difference is...

 

when a relationship between two single people ends, it is almost always one of those two people who end it.

 

when a triangle or quadrangle relationship ends, quite often the person who has triggered the end of the relationship is NOT one of the two people actually having the relationship, it is one of the people outside of that relationship. The dynamic (as you said) is completely different. It makes the conclusion of the relationship odd and off kilter. Quite often, at least one of the people feels (whether true or not - and many times it is true) that the other person didn't really want the relationship to end.. that they were forced - whether by circumstances or whatever - to end it.

 

As a result, the person who was left can feel "owed" closure and/or help in a manner they would not feel had it been a "normal" (whatever that is ) relationship.

[NoIDidn't]

The difference is...

 

when a relationship between two single people ends, it is almost always one of those two people who end it.

 

when a triangle or quadrangle relationship ends, quite often the person who has triggered the end of the relationship is NOT one of the two people actually having the relationship, it is one of the people outside of that relationship. The dynamic (as you said) is completely different. It makes the conclusion of the relationship odd and off kilter. Quite often, at least one of the people feels (whether true or not - and many times it is true) that the other person didn't really want the relationship to end.. that they were forced - whether by circumstances or whatever - to end it.

 

As a result, the person who was left can feel "owed" closure and/or help in a manner they would not feel had it been a "normal" (whatever that is ) relationship.

 

Very true. In fact, sometimes the person or people that trigger the end of the triangle aren't even a part of the triangle.

 

I hadn't considered this angle.

[jennie-jennie]

Why did I get singled out? Everything I posted was civil and with respect.

 

Sure, she is free to place me on Ignore. And so are you. It won't hurt my feelings one bit.

 

I hope she doesn't leave the forum either. Nothing that has been posted by me to her was ever intended to make her consider leaving.

 

NID, I started reading the last page first of this thread today. That is why I "singled you out". I realized when I read posts further back that there were other BSs involved as well in "the dance" as Sanafa puts it. Sorry if I misinterpreted the situation.

 

I don't expect I will ever put anyone on Ignore. I might ignore their comments, but not put them on Ignore. The reason is I always want all the facts, I want to know as much as possible what is going on. Just my nature. I am curious of the world, even the parts I do not understand or agree with.

[jennie-jennie]

The difference is...

 

when a relationship between two single people ends, it is almost always one of those two people who end it.

 

when a triangle or quadrangle relationship ends, quite often the person who has triggered the end of the relationship is NOT one of the two people actually having the relationship, it is one of the people outside of that relationship. The dynamic (as you said) is completely different. It makes the conclusion of the relationship odd and off kilter. Quite often, at least one of the people feels (whether true or not - and many times it is true) that the other person didn't really want the relationship to end.. that they were forced - whether by circumstances or whatever - to end it.

 

As a result, the person who was left can feel "owed" closure and/or help in a manner they would not feel had it been a "normal" (whatever that is ) relationship.

 

Very interesting post. I would add that even when one of the APs end the relationship, it is usually, or at least often, not because the love is gone. This is what makes it so difficult to end these relationships.

[skywriter]

Hear here, Jennie-Jennie! The latter pertains to my situation.

[Sanafa]

Ah, then perhaps there may be al life lesson to be learned somewhere in here.

 

Don't do anything in secrecy that you wouldn't mind being placed up there on a billboard. Your D'Day, from what you have described, was embarrassing.

 

Admittedly, I'm lost on the 'accountability' aspect of this that you've injected into this breakup. Accountable for what? What is your ex-boyfriend accountable for? Were you in the affair and did you do what you did in private with him against your will? What does he need to be accountable for in relation to you?

 

He's accountable to his wife and family. If he remained with you in a relationship then... he'd be accountable to you. I remember reading one of your posts whereby his 'friend' dropped off his keys and basically said... 'too bad it's over... he was having fun'.

 

Gossip can be very destructive especially in business and social environments. I can only say that if it were me... and I had placed myself in this situation... I'd be very focused on how to pick up the pieces of my life and how I could proceed with my own damage control. Reputations are funny things. I'd be distancing myself from him and this situation like it was the plague. All you need now is for all of this LC to be uncovered and the crap to hit the proverbial fan... once again in public.

 

Think about it.

 

I am going to start by saying..... I will respond to this first and to you... for the last time.

 

Our DDay was not embarrassing as you so assume ( Clear pattern with you and perhaps something YOU should look at).

 

Nothing we did in our relationship was or is regretted.... However having someone threaten the knowledge that they gain in an underhanded manner ( reminds me again of you and your incredible pride on your hacking abilities) disgusts and yes I mean disgusts me.

 

Personally, grow some balls.... instead of playing manipulative mind games, which is exactly what this party tried to do.... for over 3 weeks.

 

And..... as others have said - Dday brought us no choice ( and his friend - as I also pointed out is Bi-polar and simply who he is - no reflection on us)

 

You need to look real deep in over 200 posts to find this crumbs you continue to throw out - while I appreciate the interest, as I have said to you before - unless you are going to read all and give it the same truth you want to do to 2 or 3 statements.... then move on.

 

I find you useless..... truly.

[Sanafa]

Why did I get singled out? Everything I posted was civil and with respect.

 

Sure, she is free to place me on Ignore. And so are you. It won't hurt my feelings one bit.

 

I hope she doesn't leave the forum either. Nothing that has been posted by me to her was ever intended to make her consider leaving.

 

I was referring to both you and Lovely and said so right from the beginning. God, see my honesty has it's bonuses

 

NID

 

What bothered me was your quickness to jump up and high 5 Lovely when presented with the opportunity. Here, in the past 2 weeks or so, when we have disagreed - you and I have remained thoughtful and honestly when I seen your " pat on the back to her" it simply showed that you really believe the OW is less than.

 

Truthfully, I didn't expect it from you... but I got it and I gave it back. I do believe that both you and lovely have serious issues when dealing with the OW - again, understandable but it is rooted in your fear of your relationships.

 

I won't put anyone on ignore - and I really don't know if I will stay as I am unsure if the benefits outweigh the positives. I do know that last night when someone asked for help NID did anything but. ( and yes, I know she may sound immature and all that... but seriously - those in glass houses) She posted in the correct forum and while jumped by the Normal (chrome) had NID right behind him.

 

Not a proud place to be when long time members on either side of the fence can't behave better with the new ones.

[NoIDidn't]

I was referring to both you and Lovely and said so right from the beginning. God, see my honesty has it's bonuses

 

NID

 

What bothered me was your quickness to jump up and high 5 Lovely when presented with the opportunity. Here, in the past 2 weeks or so, when we have disagreed - you and I have remained thoughtful and honestly when I seen your " pat on the back to her" it simply showed that you really believe the OW is less than.

 

Truthfully, I didn't expect it from you... but I got it and I gave it back. I do believe that both you and lovely have serious issues when dealing with the OW - again, understandable but it is rooted in your fear of your relationships.

 

I won't put anyone on ignore - and I really don't know if I will stay as I am unsure if the benefits outweigh the positives. I do know that last night when someone asked for help NID did anything but. ( and yes, I know she may sound immature and all that... but seriously - those in glass houses) She posted in the correct forum and while jumped by the Normal (chrome) had NID right behind him.

 

Not a proud place to be when long time members on either side of the fence can't behave better with the new ones.

 

Honestly, I find your reasoning to my agreeing with Lovely both immature and shocking. I am allowed to agree with others, even when they disagree with you.

 

I often disagree with the advice given by some OW, but I don't knee-jerk and decide that everyone that agrees with them is somehow against me.

 

I posted in this thread in good faith. I believe that I have posted some things that were intended for thoughtful consideration, not knee-jerk defensiveness.

 

If what I posted wasn't exactly relevant to your situation, that's fine to me. I don't know you or your situation intimately.

 

Its clear to me you aren't interested in opposing views and will denigrate those that give them as "only BS", and I mean that for both of the meanings that it has.

 

You didn't get disrespect from me. And its sad that you can't see that. So I am done here.

 

Good luck with banging your head on a wall. I hope you stop before the bleeding starts.

[Sanafa]

Honestly, I find your reasoning to my agreeing with Lovely both immature and shocking. I am allowed to agree with others, even when they disagree with you.

 

I often disagree with the advice given by some OW, but I don't knee-jerk and decide that everyone that agrees with them is somehow against me.

 

I posted in this thread in good faith. I believe that I have posted some things that were intended for thoughtful consideration, not knee-jerk defensiveness.

 

If what I posted wasn't exactly relevant to your situation, that's fine to me. I don't know you or your situation intimately.

 

Its clear to me you aren't interested in opposing views and will denigrate those that give them as "only BS", and I mean that for both of the meanings that it has.

 

You didn't get disrespect from me. And its sad that you can't see that. So I am done here.

 

Good luck with banging your head on a wall. I hope you stop before the bleeding starts.

 

And it's clear to me you can't see the forest for the trees.

 

Almost all are opposed to my position..... however only 2 convey it in the way the creates hours of dancing..... so you can say i don't want to hear opposing views - however I beg to differ.

 

What I do prefer is to not hear condescending, " I know" posts....

 

Those are Judgmental and not in any way shape or form helpful.

[Devil Inside]

When I came here.. it was because I wanted both opinions...... that is the truth. I had "issues" with some of the selling that goes on over both sides of the fence and I really wanted to have all sides to view.

 

Many have been as cool as can be, and I greatly appreciate that... while we do not always agree.... it has been respectful and appreciated. If I was afraid of difference, I would have remained simply on the OW forum

 

However, because I am honest... I take the heat... was also prepared to do that. BUT, I am not prepared to continue to dance around the same issues over and over again.

 

I have had a great deal of help, but when it comes down to spending two hours arguing about the exact same thing with the exact same poster... there is no benefit to that...and it isn't the first time.

 

I will say this..... it's the honesty thing again.... and if anyone can take anything from this little dance.

 

If you treat people who share their honesty with you as less than you ....you can't possibly expect them to continue to do it.

 

And I am recalling MM saying... I am trying to learn how to be honest with W..... perhaps that is a reason that many choose the easier road.

 

wish everyone luck in their own recovery... however that may be drawn.

 

Sanafa...it is hard to be honest...especially when we know that we will come under fire for what we say.

 

I have always found your honesty refreshing...and if you left I would think it would be a loss. We need for all perspectives to be showcased here on these forums...if not we will not be getting a look at the complete picture.

 

As are tricky business. There are many that follow the usual patterns..but many that do not. It cannot be assumed that every A is the same or that every AP is thinking and feeling the same things.

 

I know that I try to answer questions from an honest and empathic place...but by no means is it unbiased...I am both a WS and a BS. I bring with me these experiences and my reality is shaped by my history. I think we all do the same...even if we think we are impartial..we are...it's human nature.

 

I would like to point out, however, that it is difficult at times to read some of what is written in these forums. I think differing opinions are important. I think it is good to have someone point out a pattern they see in your responses or say they are confused by your seemingly conflicting goals.

 

What is not helpful...to the poster...are the judgments. To be told over and over how you have destroyed other people's lives...or that you deserve no rights because you're a cheater...or sarcasm stating that you deserve...is not helpful. It causes a person to be defensive and it falls on deaf ears. The only person that these statements help are the person writing them..and maybe others who need to work out their feeling as well on these topics. So if your point is to help...really think about what you are writing...if it isn't...if it's just to get out your opinion and your side of things, well then carry on...but expect that most of what you say will not get through.

 

I work with people on changing their lives for a living. One thing I learned early on is that most people have all the information...what they need help with is the motivation...and help getting past their defensive mechanisms to see that the behavior they wish to change is how they cope with other things. It does not work to just blast someone into changing. Dr Phil...while highly entertaining...is a horrible therapist. In fact he isn't one...all the work that people get done on the show are done by other therapists...he just comes out and entertains the crowd by shouting from atop Mt Olympus. He does this because it makes money. People like to see others get blasted....quite sad.

 

So anyways...be kind to each other. If you can't do that...then don't claim you are only trying to help...because you're not. Ohh....and Sanafa...don't you go anywhere.

[Devil Inside]

Very interesting post. I would add that even when one of the APs end the relationship, it is usually, or at least often, not because the love is gone. This is what makes it so difficult to end these relationships.

 

Ain't that the truth. This is one thing that has made it so very hard for me. It is also the reason I had to go NC...not because it is the only thing out there, or for everyone....but because it has been the easiest way for me to get out of bed in the morning and put energy into what is going on in my broken marriage. When it's all said and done...regardless of why...I did fall love with her...and losing her hurt like a b!tch...so talking to her now will only prolong that healing process for me...and hinder my ability to work on my marriage.

[Spark1111]

Ain't that the truth. This is one thing that has made it so very hard for me. It is also the reason I had to go NC...not because it is the only thing out there, or for everyone....but because it has been the easiest way for me to get out of bed in the morning and put energy into what is going on in my broken marriage. When it's all said and done...regardless of why...I did fall love with her...and losing her hurt like a b!tch...so talking to her now will only prolong that healing process for me...and hinder my ability to work on my marriage.

 

In this you are very wise, DI.

 

As a FBS, the months post DDAY were the most hurtful of all. While he claimed to love and want me, not her, their contact continued. She was very interested in the state of our reconciliation, wanted to be his friend throughout it all and he believed it.

 

I did not. I thought she had a huge investment in a future with him, and was going "through the motions" of taking the high road. It only served to undermine his efforts.

 

Why? Because whenever there had been contact between them, I just knew it. I began to feel he was less invested in "us" for the right reasons, that he was trying to restore his family guy image, not "us". He became distant, less caring, slightly more critical of me. He was making comparisons!

 

Not wanting to ever be anyone's default choice, I told him to go get her, and he tried for a while, but it did not work out. I gave him all the rope he needed to see if this was indeed, his "soulmate."

 

They began to argue......about me!

 

Three months later, when he finally told her to stop calling him, she was devastated. NC was fully in place, at his own election.

 

And I knew it. Why? Because I sensed he was finally off the fence and FULLY invested in me, in us.

 

You never got that chance, or choice.

 

How horrible for you if you spend your life pining for "the one that got away." It will be all the more difficult for you to totally re-commit to your wife as long as your OW wears a halo. And your wife will always sense that too.

 

Peace to you.

[Devil Inside]

 

You never got that chance, or choice.

 

How horrible for you if you spend your life pining for "the one that got away." It will be all the more difficult for you to totally re-commit to your wife as long as your OW wears a halo. And your wife will always sense that too.

 

Peace to you.

 

I agree that it makes it hard. I do, however, know in my brain that the dynamics of the A created the environment for falling in love...that taken out of that environment...it probably would not be even close to what I hoped for, and probably not what I had with my wife.

 

Even though I know this in my head...my heart still hurts. Then add on that the secondary emotions of guilt and disgust for feeling that way. I know I'm a fool...that I risked my family for something that wouldn't have been...and I am working through that.

 

I guess that is why I lead my actions with my head for now. One day I will have faith in integrating my emotions into decisions...but for now...I'm basically Dr. Spock...well except when it comes to my W...with her I let my feelings of love show...and I think that was probably what I should have been doing all along.

[Devil Inside]

Hey Spark

 

Let me just say...I am so impressed at the sacrifice that you made for your marriage.

 

The fact that you told him to go to her...knowing what would happen...and took him back.

 

You must really love him. Lucky guy.