Inside The Mind of a Cheater

[Spark1111]

Yes, his mommy was extremely needy, and somewhat manipulative. He did not receive much positive attention from her, and when she died he sank into depression regarding unmet childhood needs.

 

His OW, was needy, needed to be rescued from her jerk of an ex, also somewhat manipulative but praised him to the hilt.

 

A better version of the mommy he did not have.

 

She had daddy issues and a terrible track record of picking jerks.

 

He became her knight in shining armor at a time he did not feel all that important to himself. He projected his distancing on to me.

 

I, too, younger in life, was needy due to family environment, but overcame it early in the marriage through counseling, college, etc. He pursued me to marry.

 

I think it was the most mentally stable choice he ever made and here's why: Your life partner is the one you hope to procreate with, and the choice of an independent resourceful woman to raise your offspring virtually guarantees strong, successful children.

 

You did not want needy insecure children.

 

But as time goes by, you feel less important because you feel less needed as the all encompassing chore of child-rearing begins. So you admire your independent spouse, but no longer feel "in love" with her. She meanwhile, hopes you are admiring her abilities to "mother" your child, the hardest, most time consuming job on the planet, and that you understand her dwindling sex drive is in direct proportion to emotionally investing 150% into child-rearing.

 

Date night? Having fun together? Weekends away for sexual healing? Nah, probably not.

 

The divide between the two of you grows. Everyone has assumed their proper roles, and you stop communicating your needs to each other.

 

She crashes into a man and has an EA, but you never do the hard work to find out what needs of hers is unmet.

 

You crash into a needy woman and have a PA, and are just starting to understand the hard work needed to overcome it.

 

Only two people working hard to communicate and fill their unmet needs have a shot of rekindling those feelings of love and passion necessary to sustain a long term HAPPY marriage.

 

You have come a long way in a very short time. I wish you success and peace.

 

A question: What was your OW's relationship with Daddy? Since her husband is a jerk, I have to assume it wasn't a good one?

And secondly, she broke it off, yes? So she too has a pretty big void of feeling unworthy of someone who respects her. She went back to the jerk, right?

[PhoenixRise]

Umm... Men could care less about shoes.

 

I think high heels are a female invention to impress other women.

 

 

 

That is the key right there!

 

It's not about being sexually confident, or financially independent... or whatever.

 

It's about being emotionally vulnerable. That can make a woman extremely attractive.

 

I beg to differ. My H LOVES me in very high heels:love:

 

 

And I now I clearly see your point about vulnerablility. I will admit that I was not as emotionally vulnerable with my husband prior to his cheating as I could have been. It was due to lifelong training and being raised by women who were abandoned by their H and who did and handeled EVERYTHING.

[Devil Inside]

DI your OW sounds a lot like myself. I am a really independent woman but boy did I really rely on my xOM for the emotional support and exactly that... to tell me how beautiful I was in a very non-sexual nature (if this makes any sense). I always feel like when it comes from my husband's mouth it is always very sexual in nature and not very meaningful.

 

I guess one not of caution: I think that in healthy relationships people to provide their partner with emotional support...so you getting and liking that is not bad...I think that I would look for women that were starving for it...because I am good at giving it.

[Untouchable_Fire]

In dealing with my H infidelity I am understanding this protective instinct a little more.

BUT I am not/was not trying to be any sort of type. It is just who I am and who I have always been. AND when I say I didn't/don't need him, I am saying I don't need him to validate me and I take responsibility for my own happiness.

I get what you are saying, but truly, what the hell are you going to do with a needy woman when you are in the middle of one of life's inevitible sh** storms. Don't you need a woman who can be a warrior woman to have your back when you need it?

For my H and possibly for DI I can see that having someone need you this way can feed your ego and fill a need, but doesn't it get exhausting for someone to need you to fill them up emotionally all the time?

 

While there is some ego involved... I don't think that is the driving factor behind this type of attraction.

 

In my mind I literally equate emotional vulnerability with femininity, and the opposite with masculinity.

 

I've been with some very needy women, and it can be exhausting after a time... but that doesn't mean its less attractive that the opposite.

 

Not the shoes! The WOMAN in the shoes...high heels makes your ass stick out, your chest go forward...and again, it appears she is more vulnerable than some woman wearing Nikes !! Of course I know women who can move as fast in heels as they can in sneakers....

 

Since you put it like that... I'm suddenly much more interested in heels.

[Devil Inside]

 

A question: What was your OW's relationship with Daddy? Since her husband is a jerk, I have to assume it wasn't a good one?

And secondly, she broke it off, yes? So she too has a pretty big void of feeling unworthy of someone who respects her. She went back to the jerk, right?

 

xOW had a love/hate thing with her dad. He spent a lot of time with her, but he was an alcoholic. Then he had a multiple year affair with a woman. My xOW found his journal as a teen and knew what happened. She kept it a secret from him and her mother...she then became like a second mother helping her mother with her brother and sister and the household. Her father can be a real jerk...old school...chauvinistic...blunt.

 

She did break it off. I know she is dating...but I don't know if it is the jerk. Probably a new jerk...but for her...I hope it's a good guy. Although..she always told me she didn't deserve me, and that one day I would wake up and realize that I was too good for her...hmmm..

[Spark1111]

Here is another question:

 

Were you happy all day, every day in the affair?

 

I mean, in my situation, my husband grew distant and moody, not only from me and the children, but from friends and family too.

 

Only she could make him happy, but it was exhausting to sustain it all. Today, it sounds oh-so-draining.

 

So I asked him, "if it made you happy, why were you so miserable most of the time?"

 

Did you feel this way too?

 

IMHO, love does not lift you up in short bursts to slam you back down. Everything else in his life suffered for this relationship.

 

Did yours?

[foreal]

Spark you PMd me but I cannot figure out how to send one back to you-

 

sorry for the jack DI!!

 

Spark, I got the self image thing from survivinginfidelity.com

 

okay going to go put on some high heels......

[Untouchable_Fire]

OK...starting to think you are my old therapist here in secret...LOL...good questions.

Well...I guess it starts with me really being honest about who I am...what I want...what I believe in.

Then I need to learn to say no. If I don't want to do it...or if I am doing it to please and get validation...then I need to say no.

Then I will be doing things that either I want to do...or that I am doing because it is based on something I value...like washing dishes because it keep my house clean (value) and shows my wife that I love her and want to lesse her load (value).

 

Here is the key I use. When I do something for a person... I just make sure that I am doing it because they need the help. Not because I want them to like me, or because it makes me feel important. You just have to shift your thinking off of the ME level.

 

That means if a pretty girl and an ugly girl both drop their books at the same time in a busy hallway... I help the ugly girl.

 

So, when you do things for your wife. You do it because you want her life to be better, easier, more enjoyable. If she appreciates that.... great... if not... who cares.

[Devil Inside]

Here is another question:

 

Were you happy all day, every day in the affair?

 

So I asked him, "if it made you happy, why were you so miserable most of the time?"

 

Did you feel this way too?

 

IMHO, love does not lift you up in short bursts to slam you back down. Everything else in his life suffered for this relationship.

 

Did yours?

 

No, I was not happy everyday in the affair. It was like a roller coaster. When I was happy...I was so intensely happy. However, I was also feeling guilty, nervous, lonely, and scared. There were many nights I layed in bed awake wondering what the heck I was going to do. Then there were times when I missed her that I would cry. Then there were times that I felt so bad for lying to my wife and kids that I cried. This last year I have cried about twenty times more than I ever have in my whole life.

 

Yes it did effect my life. I was not as good of a father. I was not as good of a therapist. I was obviously a crappy husband.

 

Any relationship that is a secret cannot really make you happy in the long run. I mean it ate me up.

[Untouchable_Fire]

And I now I clearly see your point about vulnerablility. I will admit that I was not as emotionally vulnerable with my husband prior to his cheating as I could have been. It was due to lifelong training and being raised by women who were abandoned by their H and who did and handeled EVERYTHING.

 

And... that level of independence comes across as distrust.

 

 

 

I mean, in my situation, my husband grew distant and moody, not only from me and the children, but from friends and family too.

Only she could make him happy, but it was exhausting to sustain it all. Today, it sounds oh-so-draining.

So I asked him, "if it made you happy, why were you so miserable most of the time?"

 

The answer to that question lies in why he had the affair to begin with.

 

More than likely it allowed him to build a fantasy world in his head... and the rest of his life failed to compare... thus creating intense dissatisfaction. Combined with immense guilt.

 

I think what tipped my wife off the most was that I stopped putting up with her crap.

[ladydesigner]

No, I was not happy everyday in the affair. It was like a roller coaster. When I was happy...I was so intensely happy. However, I was also feeling guilty, nervous, lonely, and scared. There were many nights I layed in bed awake wondering what the heck I was going to do. Then there were times when I missed her that I would cry. Then there were times that I felt so bad for lying to my wife and kids that I cried. This last year I have cried about twenty times more than I ever have in my whole life.

 

Yes it did effect my life. I was not as good of a father. I was not as good of a therapist. I was obviously a crappy husband.

 

Any relationship that is a secret cannot really make you happy in the long run. I mean it ate me up.

 

This is so so very true. I don't think anyone in an affair is truly happy. Which this is really interesting as to why we would miss it so much. An affair is just like a drug addiction. While the effect of the drug makes you feel "high"= "happiness" coming down from that "high" is very painful.

[Spark1111]

This is so so very true. I don't think anyone in an affair is truly happy. Which this is really interesting as to why we would miss it so much. An affair is just like a drug addiction. While the effect of the drug makes you feel "high"= "happiness" coming down from that "high" is very painful.

 

This is what I have learned since DDAy, but did not understand at the time.

 

I thought he was deeply in love and told him to go get her. But he stopped on a dime and started pursuing me.

 

I hated him, what he had done to me, us and it wasn't so much the affair as the deception that killed my respect for him.

 

But once it was no longer secret and illicit, he no longer wanted it at all.

 

So is this love? Or confusion?

 

Posters tell that story over and over again.

[ladydesigner]

So is this love? Or confusion?

 

This is a great question. At the time of the affair I really thought is was love while being confused. I now know that I was trying to fill a void within myself as DI has said many times. I don't think I really was "in love" with my xOM. I was "in love" with the idea of him and that "idea of him" never really existed.

[Spark1111]

DI, you never had a DDay. Your recovery may take longer.

 

When my husband saw my pain and anger, it was like a lightbulb went off in his head to how deeply I loved him. He had talked himself out of seeing, or feeling my love, or at the very least, minimizing it because it was not given in the way he needed to feel it.

 

He had distanced himself way before the affair. Did you do this, too?

 

I also tell him that I choose to be here. I do not need to be here. In my way of thinking, he should be so empowered by that, being chosen.

 

But now listening to you, maybe it is not as empowering as I intend it to be.

[Spark1111]

This is a great question. At the time of the affair I really thought is was love while being confused. I now know that I was trying to fill a void within myself as DI has said many times. I don't think I really was "in love" with my xOM. I was "in love" with the idea of him and that "idea of him" never really existed.

 

This is what 2sure has said over and over again. That it is the affair dynamic that puts goggles on the AP, and basically the roles become "who do you need me to be" as opposed to who you really are.

 

I think there is truth to this.

 

In my situation, he needed to be the knight in shining armor compared to her horrible, horrible exH.

 

He needed validation for being powerful and wonderful at a time he felt anything but.

 

It became ad nauseum their topics of conversation. So much was NOT discussed. But having these needs fueled and validated by each other led to some hot sex and feelings of romanticism, er, love.

 

They both played their roles very well.

 

DI, what were your roles? She was needy which fulfilled you, but what did need did you fulfill of her's?

[Untouchable_Fire]

This is a great question. At the time of the affair I really thought is was love while being confused. I now know that I was trying to fill a void within myself as DI has said many times. I don't think I really was "in love" with my xOM. I was "in love" with the idea of him and that "idea of him" never really existed.

 

Isn't that how love starts?

 

DI, you never had a DDay. Your recovery may take longer.

When my husband saw my pain and anger, it was like a lightbulb went off in his head to how deeply I loved him. He had talked himself out of seeing, or feeling my love, or at the very least, minimizing it because it was not given in the way he needed to feel it.

He had distanced himself way before the affair. Did you do this, too?

I also tell him that I choose to be here. I do not need to be here. In my way of thinking, he should be so empowered by that, being chosen.

But now listening to you, maybe it is not as empowering as I intend it to be.

 

It depends on how you say it! Those words can come across as a threat or a validation.... it just depends on the circumstances.

 

In your situation... chances are that he had the affair primarily because your marriage was not working. That's what happened to me. The marriage was making me miserable, and I was too self centered to handle it the right way.

[ladydesigner]

isn't that how love starts?

 

UF I am not sure how love starts anymore. I thought I was "in love" with xOM but he didn't turn out to be who he claimed he was or even what was shown to me while we were together. In hindsight I realize I should never be so gullible in believing what I want to hear. I need to find what it is that is missing inside myself rather than projecting that "love" onto someone else. And then again maybe I really was "in love" with xOM. I guess what I was trying to say in this

I was "in love" with the idea of him and that "idea of him" never really existed.

is that I projected this fantasy of who I wanted xOM to be and he wasn't that.

[Spark1111]

Untouchable, how HONEST of you!

 

Yes. There is an element of self-centeredness......and entitlement.

 

I deserve to be happy. You are not trying hard enough to make me happy.

 

But she/he does.

 

Many experts in therapy talk of 7 types of affairs.

 

MY marriage made me do it, is one of the hardest to reconcile.

 

I hope you are in a better place today.

[Mino]

Bingo Mz...yeah this makes all the sense in the world. I am currently between ICs but going back soon. I am also looking at Sex/Love Addict literature...I have a history with other addictions...so this may be that too.

DI, Great book is the " Casanova Complex, talks about the 5 faces of casanova.. Great insight to the men that cheat and why...

[bentnotbroken]

That's why I like em!

 

 

So when do you plan on buying a pair in your size?

[Gamine]

DI, you never had a DDay. Your recovery may take longer.

 

When my husband saw my pain and anger, it was like a lightbulb went off in his head to how deeply I loved him. He had talked himself out of seeing, or feeling my love, or at the very least, minimizing it because it was not given in the way he needed to feel it.

 

He had distanced himself way before the affair. Did you do this, too?

 

I also tell him that I choose to be here. I do not need to be here. In my way of thinking, he should be so empowered by that, being chosen.

 

But now listening to you, maybe it is not as empowering as I intend it to be.

 

Perhaps this is precisely why DI hasn't confessed. The pain of facing the possibility that she may reject him, hate him, and walk away. The ultimate abandonment. The ultimate everything.

 

At first I thought DI was avoiding D'day for the reasons of a fence sitter. Now I believe I see it as a fear of abandonment. Which, by the way, is part of sexual addiction.

Or rather... one of the many expressions of sexual addiction.

[bentnotbroken]

Yes, his mommy was extremely needy, and somewhat manipulative. He did not receive much positive attention from her, and when she died he sank into depression regarding unmet childhood needs.

 

His OW, was needy, needed to be rescued from her jerk of an ex, also somewhat manipulative but praised him to the hilt.

 

A better version of the mommy he did not have.

 

She had daddy issues and a terrible track record of picking jerks.

 

He became her knight in shining armor at a time he did not feel all that important to himself. He projected his distancing on to me.

 

I, too, younger in life, was needy due to family environment, but overcame it early in the marriage through counseling, college, etc. He pursued me to marry.

 

I think it was the most mentally stable choice he ever made and here's why: Your life partner is the one you hope to procreate with, and the choice of an independent resourceful woman to raise your offspring virtually guarantees strong, successful children.

 

You did not want needy insecure children.

 

But as time goes by, you feel less important because you feel less needed as the all encompassing chore of child-rearing begins. So you admire your independent spouse, but no longer feel "in love" with her. She meanwhile, hopes you are admiring her abilities to "mother" your child, the hardest, most time consuming job on the planet, and that you understand her dwindling sex drive is in direct proportion to emotionally investing 150% into child-rearing.

 

Date night? Having fun together? Weekends away for sexual healing? Nah, probably not.

 

The divide between the two of you grows. Everyone has assumed their proper roles, and you stop communicating your needs to each other.

 

She crashes into a man and has an EA, but you never do the hard work to find out what needs of hers is unmet.

 

You crash into a needy woman and have a PA, and are just starting to understand the hard work needed to overcome it.

 

Only two people working hard to communicate and fill their unmet needs have a shot of rekindling those feelings of love and passion necessary to sustain a long term HAPPY marriage.

 

You have come a long way in a very short time. I wish you success and peace.

 

A question: What was your OW's relationship with Daddy? Since her husband is a jerk, I have to assume it wasn't a good one?

And secondly, she broke it off, yes? So she too has a pretty big void of feeling unworthy of someone who respects her. She went back to the jerk, right?

 

 

Spark, these words are soooo true.

[2sure]

I have been in/out so havent grasped all of the thoughts on this thread...

 

But , my H is serial cheater - mentally ill no question. I have forgiven him before, but as of now he is out of the home. I cannot ride this train with him any longer.

 

The thing I want to tell DI is that it wasnt the cheating, the sex, or the emotional conversations with other women...that have hurt me the most or made me finally give up and walk...

 

He is mentally ill or addicted, he is suffering, he is ruining himself...it is difficult even now, for me to not help him with any problem he may have..

 

But he lied, all along, and told me he was healthy. Hiding this kind of cheating, the kind driven by your own low self worth...is like trying to hide cancer. It spreads, and then its too late.

[bentnotbroken]

I am now wondering how common the superman complex is among men who cheat. My H also said he felt like I didn't need him. The thing is....he was right. I didn't/don't need him. I love him. I want him. But Need him? No.

 

I always thought he admired my independence and in many ways he did, but he also felt threatened by it.

 

His OW seemed to need him to build her up more and she built him up to the high heavens.

 

He was approaching mid life and he could discuss all his dreams with her and it all seemed like it was all ahead of him and for her it was all brand new and exciting and she would be along for the ride.

 

I think when he discussed his dreams with me, many of his dreams had been on the table since we met back in college. I think when he talked about things with me he felt like it was a symbol of his failure to reach all his goals because here he was with a wife and a child and he wasn't there yet.

 

 

ARE you married to Mr. Messy or his brother??? Wow this is what I have always felt about Mr. Messy and the reason he was willing to cheat.

[NoIDidn't]

The more I read and re-read this thread, the more it just sounds like unhappy people making bad decisions in dealing with what is really just common in life.

 

I don't mean this as a judgment because even people that don't cheat have destructive tendencies that damage their relationships in much the same way as infidelity. I have done my share of self-protecting mechanisms and seen the damage it has done to my marriage and other relationships.

 

If I have gotten anything from this thread, its that relationships and the people in them are fragile and should be handled with care and compassion. We all are in need of some type of emotional healing.

 

Thanks guys. This level of honesty is really refreshing and is helping me in ways I didn't expect it to.