Inside The Mind of a Cheater

[Gamine]

I have been in/out so havent grasped all of the thoughts on this thread...

 

But , my H is serial cheater - mentally ill no question. I have forgiven him before, but as of now he is out of the home. I cannot ride this train with him any longer.

 

The thing I want to tell DI is that it wasnt the cheating, the sex, or the emotional conversations with other women...that have hurt me the most or made me finally give up and walk...

 

He is mentally ill or addicted, he is suffering, he is ruining himself...it is difficult even now, for me to not help him with any problem he may have..

 

But he lied, all along, and told me he was healthy. Hiding this kind of cheating, the kind driven by your own low self worth...is like trying to hide cancer. It spreads, and then its too late.

 

It is hard to accept that someone we know is broken does not want to repair themselves. Because, in the light of day, it is an illogical choice.

 

The choice to be blind to their real intentions. The choice to be led by the fractured portions of their psyche. The choice to be a lab rat... guided by conditioning from the past... rather than to grab hold of themselves and live a consciously directed and purposeful life.

 

Passion... true passion... is something only a sound person can experience.

 

Everything else is just acting out and feeding compulsions masquerading as passion. But it is broken, debilitating, and exhausting.

 

Your husband's choices are illogical and... when you get down to it... infantile, broken and stupid. And, when you get right down to it... probably have nothing to do with SEX at all. It has more to do with devaluing himself ... this is his allure. But it is so elusive to him.

 

The only reason my husband isn't 'acting out destructively' using sex as his weapon to harm himself... is because the underlying 'voices' (so to speak) that direct this behavior were unmasked to him. Now he sees it in the light of day and it isn't powerful, sexual, or free. It is a prison of self humiliation and emasculation. Which is the polar opposite of what he thought he was doing.

 

Has he ever sought qualified, specialized, professional help?

[Snowflower]

Perhaps this is precisely why DI hasn't confessed. The pain of facing the possibility that she may reject him, hate him, and walk away. The ultimate abandonment. The ultimate everything.

 

At first I thought DI was avoiding D'day for the reasons of a fence sitter. Now I believe I see it as a fear of abandonment. Which, by the way, is part of sexual addiction.

Or rather... one of the many expressions of sexual addiction.

 

 

Great thread...there are a lot of interesting points being made here from all sides.

 

Gamine, you bring up an interesting point...I wonder how much of the perceived fence sitting by a CS is actually a fear of abandonment...of being alone? Of course, the CS probably can't see this for what it is at the time...so they don't say that. Instead, it is more along the lines of, "I don't know what I want..."

 

I know as my husband and I worked through what had happened afterward, I remember asking him what he would have done if I had told him to get out because I hated him for what he had done. For a time, my husband appeared to be a fence-sitter, too...although he didn't fence-sit as long as other WS have. He confessed his A to me.

 

And basically, my husband admits doesn't know what he would have done if I had rejected him after I found out. He said he was terrified that he would be alone then. So, he kept talking to the OW--just so that he knew there was at least someone there for him. I know my husband has huge abandonment issues that go back to his mother. He/we worked through it in IC/MC.

 

So yes, some fence-sitting at least, might be a fear of rejection/abandonment most definitely. I don't think all cheaters are necessarily self-centered; it often goes much deeper.

[MistyK]

 

Well for starters it is going to come from me being honest with myself (for once) and integrating all parts of who I am. I need to accept myself for who I am and not try to project the image of who I am not...it's a matter of integrity..it starts there for me.

 

I'm working on this too. There's a really great book by David Richo called "Shadow Dance" that you might like.

[MistyK]

No arguing here. Everyone thinks I am such a great guy...always helping, supportive, listens to everyone's problems...thing is...I do all this to feed my need to feel needed...not because I am this great guy that wants to help everyone else.

 

It is a manipulative way to achieve validation. As I work on myself I am going to start to set boundaries for myself. I am going to ask for what I need and want. No more of these sneaky, subversive, manipulative BS.

 

Don't you think it can be both? Part of the way I've dealt with my fear of abandonment is being needless and wantless, and extremely giving. I basically exhaust myself making myself so perfect that no one should ever want to leave me. (Some examples: Daily backrubs for xSM, I cleaned his house, did his laundry and all his ironing, I shopped for all the stuff in his new house, cleaned his desk at the office, helped him with his professional work in my spare time, and I've even cleaned the house his W lives in and fixed her computer numerous times.) A little over the top for someone with two toddlers, a full-time job an hour away from home, and her own house and life to deal with, no? But I did all of these things because I wanted to, and because I felt that he needed my help.

 

I suppose the test for my motivations is how I felt about it later. Obviously I didn't feel like I was getting much return on the investment and I know than more than a few times I threw my acts of "perfect girlfriend" in his face - like I do all this for you and yet here I am, still 2nd best to your W. Does that mean all of it was manipulative, insincere?

 

DI, do you think you hold resentment for either your W or the OW for never giving back equally - not being a true partner?

[OW_WS]

Sorry in advance if this is too long and borderline incoherent but I've collected these as I passed through the thread.

 

I noticed that my H procrastinated (still does to a lesser extent) all day on everything I asked of him, but if someone else asked it - it was done lickity split! It seems to go hand in hand with the "itis".

 

What do you think of these two things?

 

I think that's easily explainable with the direct relationship between the amount of pleasure he derives from new, shinny validation from a stranger as opposed to your usual one. Even if you make a special effort to commend him, it's a case of worn off stimulus, he's simply attention seeking.

 

For me it is being needed and sexually desired. Which itis would that be?

 

Isn't that the translation of "being in love" to men? Do you not subscribe to the school of thought that implies that sexual acts are the most likely definitions of love for a male?

 

Bingo Mz...yeah this makes all the sense in the world. I am currently between ICs but going back soon. I am also looking at Sex/Love Addict literature...I have a history with other addictions...so this may be that too.

 

I always found the lumping bizarre. Sex/Love addiction. Please don't let the scarce literature sway you, I'm sure you're aware of how despite the theory I was referring to above, a strong need for emotional connections can be explained in many more fashions than the compulsive need for sexual contact (even in males). In other words, explaining sexual addiction -while difficult and messier in women- is rather straight forward (and IMO not your case at all) than explaining emotional/love addiction.

 

I agree that it is hard. I can tell you though, first hand, as a therapist, that I have worked with clients that have made amazing breakthroughs. Not that their personality changed 100%, but that they learned to accept all sides of themselves and stopped destructive behaviors. This is my goal.

 

Agreed. It's why I'm a fan of CBT.

 

No arguing here. Everyone thinks I am such a great guy...always helping, supportive, listens to everyone's problems...thing is...I do all this to feed my need to feel needed...not because I am this great guy that wants to help everyone else.

 

It is a manipulative way to achieve validation. As I work on myself I am going to start to set boundaries for myself. I am going to ask for what I need and want. No more of these sneaky, subversive, manipulative BS.

 

I've posted about this before today. I find the relativity of the self worth vs. morality vs. goodness and positive image balance fascinating. I find that most people who have not done something that they view as morally reprehensible will place far less value on that particular aspect of their moral values a priori. It's a posteriori that guilt and remorse inflates the deed and the relevance to the overall to the point that the particular wrong action and/or morally sanctioned character trait takes over, making them negate their entire self worth. It's an instinctive reaction for the most part I believe and with time it should lessen but I would like you to consider, a priori, how much relevance does this act have in the greater picture of who you are, and how would the possibility that you are exaggerating this harm your already suffering self esteem.

 

That means if a pretty girl and an ugly girl both drop their books at the same time in a busy hallway... I help the ugly girl.

 

Hey!

 

Isn't that how love starts?

 

Absolutely agreed. The image of what we crave is what we fall in love with. Thankfully the person behind that glitter mask matches some of our dreams:lmao:

 

Perhaps this is precisely why DI hasn't confessed. The pain of facing the possibility that she may reject him, hate him, and walk away. The ultimate abandonment. The ultimate everything.

 

This is a possibility and surely part of it. So is the fact that it is an unnecessary risk that may bring her from "hurting" to "broken" while accomplishing nothing. Why would you want DI to confess? He's willing to go the entire 9 yards, the MC, the IC, the soul searching, the loveshack addiction and has even had the crux of the conversation with her. He spared her the details of how he found out but essentially he has told her the issue, not being in love with her anymore. What could could possibly come from sitting down and giving her the exact details of how he found that out.

[Gamine]

Sorry in advance if this is too long and borderline incoherent but I've collected these as I passed through the thread.

 

 

 

I think that's easily explainable with the direct relationship between the amount of pleasure he derives from new, shinny validation from a stranger as opposed to your usual one. Even if you make a special effort to commend him, it's a case of worn off stimulus, he's simply attention seeking.

 

 

 

Isn't that the translation of "being in love" to men? Do you not subscribe to the school of thought that implies that sexual acts are the most likely definitions of love for a male?

 

 

 

I always found the lumping bizarre. Sex/Love addiction. Please don't let the scarce literature sway you, I'm sure you're aware of how despite the theory I was referring to above, a strong need for emotional connections can be explained in many more fashions than the compulsive need for sexual contact (even in males). In other words, explaining sexual addiction -while difficult and messier in women- is rather straight forward (and IMO not your case at all) than explaining emotional/love addiction.

 

 

 

Agreed. It's why I'm a fan of CBT.

 

 

 

I've posted about this before today. I find the relativity of the self worth vs. morality vs. goodness and positive image balance fascinating. I find that most people who have not done something that they view as morally reprehensible will place far less value on that particular aspect of their moral values a priori. It's a posteriori that guilt and remorse inflates the deed and the relevance to the overall to the point that the particular wrong action and/or morally sanctioned character trait takes over, making them negate their entire self worth. It's an instinctive reaction for the most part I believe and with time it should lessen but I would like you to consider, a priori, how much relevance does this act have in the greater picture of who you are, and how would the possibility that you are exaggerating this harm your already suffering self esteem.

 

 

 

Hey!

 

 

 

Absolutely agreed. The image of what we crave is what we fall in love with. Thankfully the person behind that glitter mask matches some of our dreams:lmao:

 

 

 

This is a possibility and surely part of it. So is the fact that it is an unnecessary risk that may bring her from "hurting" to "broken" while accomplishing nothing. Why would you want DI to confess? He's willing to go the entire 9 yards, the MC, the IC, the soul searching, the loveshack addiction and has even had the crux of the conversation with her. He spared her the details of how he found out but essentially he has told her the issue, not being in love with her anymore. What could could possibly come from sitting down and giving her the exact details of how he found that out.

 

 

Because it is through the confession that he releases her from his mental and emotional prison. He has stopped seeing her for who and what she is as a person separate from himself. Because of his compulsions he has depersonalized her by making her a component in his life and by doing so has lost all perspective on who his wife is... in actuality. He has no perspective other than the compartment he has placed her in within his own dynamic thusly blinding him to the whole of it.

 

Unless and until he airs out the room, the black mold won't dry up... and he may very well roam around wondering why he never feels good.

[PhoenixRise]

 

This is a possibility and surely part of it. So is the fact that it is an unnecessary risk that may bring her from "hurting" to "broken" while accomplishing nothing. Why would you want DI to confess? He's willing to go the entire 9 yards, the MC, the IC, the soul searching, the loveshack addiction and has even had the crux of the conversation with her. He spared her the details of how he found out but essentially he has told her the issue, not being in love with her anymore. What could could possibly come from sitting down and giving her the exact details of how he found that out.

 

 

This is true only if DI is content to have a realtionship with his wife that only skims the surface. If what he wants is real intimcay, a relationship that is deeper than 1/4 inch, he will never have this with a huge betraying lie hidden beneath the surface.

 

DI has said that he and his wife have been talking and changes are being made. Unless he is a sociopath, he will watch his wife make changes, go all out to make him happy in the marriage, and become more expressive of her love for him and he will look into her eyes and he will feel like a piece of sh**. He will feel like he doesn't deserve it. AND he won't deserve it. Real intimacy requires truth. Lies by their very nature keep you on the surface of things.

[AlektraClementine]

This is going to sound harsh DI, but you said you're a therapist, so you should be able to translate.

 

I've asked you before, are you going to tell your wife? If you go ahead and do it, you can accomplish "breaking" her again and then you might be able to feel attracted/in love with her again.

[Devil Inside]

 

 

He had distanced himself way before the affair. Did you do this, too?

 

I also tell him that I choose to be here. I do not need to be here. In my way of thinking, he should be so empowered by that, being chosen.

 

But now listening to you, maybe it is not as empowering as I intend it to be.

 

There has been some distance for awhile in my marriage. I now can see that it was my immature way of dealing with being unhappy. I didn't value myself or respect my wife enough to ask her for what I wanted and needed...instead I plunged myself into being a parent, into my career, and into other passions. Then one day I looked up and realized that I did not have what I wanted and looked elsewhere for it...I know it's pathetic.

 

My wife has said the exact thing you said to your husband. She has told me over and over, I don't need you, I know I could find another man...but I choose you, I want you, I love you and want a life with you. This is what any healthy man wants to hear...it's a dream. There is a side of me that is healthy (believe it or not) and I can appreciate how lucky I am...then the unhealthy, needy, childish side is intimidated...she doesn't need me...so she could walk...it is becoming clear to me.

 

All that said. I think that you were being empowering. Why would any woman want to be with a man that wouldn't realize the gift that a woman that can feel that way is. I am working to accept the gift that my wife is...and believe it or not...I have felt a tiny shift...one day at a time.

 

I am a little behind on responding to posts today, and the discussion has taken a very interesting turn...and I am really hearing some of the things being said...back later, because after all...I do have work a little...lol. Bad enough I am so screwed up...unemployment is not going to make me any more attractive...LOL. Thanks for the input...it is helping more than you know.

[OW_WS]

Gamine I think that was mostly poetry, beautiful writing but not quite the answer. I presume you meant something along the lines of what PR means here:

 

Real intimacy requires truth. Lies by their very nature keep you on the surface of things.

 

This is a valid point only if we all agree that intimacy starts and stops at complete honesty. If we disregard how it is familiarity, comfort, knowledge -if not complete- of the other and so on. We can't possibly agree on all that, be it only for the fact that there are so many things making up the feeling of being intimate with a spouse that I find it hard to believe that one lack of disclosure can erase them all ESPECIALLY since he HAS told her. He hasn't told her the how and why he found out no but he HAS told her what the problem is.

 

Quid prodes? Is she going to feel closer to him because she will know when they touched? Will he be more intimate with her because he confessed when and how they consumed the A? Maybe so but it would be only guilt relief and the potential damage in her makes the risk worth considering very closely...

 

I've asked you before, are you going to tell your wife? If you go ahead and do it, you can accomplish "breaking" her again and then you might be able to feel attracted/in love with her again.

 

Point.

[Gamine]

Gamine I think that was mostly poetry, beautiful writing but not quite the answer. I presume you meant something along the lines of what PR means here:

 

 

 

This is a valid point only if we all agree that intimacy starts and stops at complete honesty. If we disregard how it is familiarity, comfort, knowledge -if not complete- of the other and so on. We can't possibly agree on all that, be it only for the fact that there are so many things making up the feeling of being intimate with a spouse that I find it hard to believe that one lack of disclosure can erase them all ESPECIALLY since he HAS told her. He hasn't told her the how and why he found out no but he HAS told her what the problem is.

 

Quid prodes? Is she going to feel closer to him because she will know when they touched? Will he be more intimate with her because he confessed when and how they consumed the A? Maybe so but it would be only guilt relief and the potential damage in her makes the risk worth considering very closely...

 

 

 

Point.

 

 

No, not poetry at all. I meant precisely what I said as written. He has depersonalized her through his compartmentalization and therefore doesn't know who she is, any longer, objectively. She is a component of a compulsion and he is in the throws of acting out on his compulsion.

[OW_WS]

No, not poetry at all. I meant precisely what I said as written. He has depersonalized her through his compartmentalization and therefore doesn't know who she is, any longer, objectively. She is a component of a compulsion and he is in the throws of acting out on his compulsion.

 

Okay then, let's look at that affirmation. Even if we accept he has compartmentalized to a degree -and we all do, for various reasons, many times it is natural and commendable- then what does that suggest? He has sealed her in a box where he pays her no mind, is not privy to any of her intimate thoughts, does not react to her as a human being and a partner and has no true intimate interaction with her? Really? Where are you getting that conclusion from? In the past 30-40 posts I've read from DI he asks yet another question having to do with yet another topic he is analyzing and -likely- over-analyzing and many of those refer to conversations he's had with her on important topics such as their M, their sexual compatibility, etc. How is that even remotely supportive of your affirmation?

 

He knows her but is not objective about her you say. Of course he is not, he cares for her, loves her, was in love with her, how would he objectively see her through any other glasses than those of their R.

 

I can't imagine why you say that other than because you insist on applying the addiction model to DI even where the mold has nothing to do with what he seems to be experiencing.

 

And even if, for the sake of the argument we accept the detachment and depersonalization you seem to think he has applied to her, how does that prove that telling her would help turn all that around? If there really was this emotional gap -and I don't believe he has one with her but with himself in the throws of guilt not addiction- how would it be mended by anything other than exploring their R together in counseling and at home which is what he's doing?

[Untouchable_Fire]

Untouchable, how HONEST of you!

Yes. There is an element of self-centeredness......and entitlement.

I deserve to be happy. You are not trying hard enough to make me happy.

But she/he does.

Many experts in therapy talk of 7 types of affairs.

MY marriage made me do it, is one of the hardest to reconcile.

I hope you are in a better place today.

 

Oh, yes Im in a way better place! It's called divorced.

 

That marriage was never going to work, and I was a fool to stay as long as I did.

 

The biggest part of what I had to grapple with was my self reduction. I was always the self righteous, always do the right thing guy... and here I had done the complete opposite of how I view myself as a person. That was difficult.

 

The more I read and re-read this thread' date=' the more [u']it just sounds like unhappy people making bad decisions in dealing with what is really just common in life[/u].

I don't mean this as a judgment because even people that don't cheat have destructive tendencies that damage their relationships in much the same way as infidelity. I have done my share of self-protecting mechanisms and seen the damage it has done to my marriage and other relationships.

If I have gotten anything from this thread, its that relationships and the people in them are fragile and should be handled with care and compassion. We all are in need of some type of emotional healing.

Thanks guys. This level of honesty is really refreshing and is helping me in ways I didn't expect it to.

 

Your assessment is correct.

 

Why do we constantly try to use the people around us to generate self esteem?

 

It is hard to accept that someone we know is broken does not want to repair themselves. Because, in the light of day, it is an illogical choice.

The choice to be blind to their real intentions. The choice to be led by the fractured portions of their psyche. The choice to be a lab rat... guided by conditioning from the past... rather than to grab hold of themselves and live a consciously directed and purposeful life.

Passion... true passion... is something only a sound person can experience.

Everything else is just acting out and feeding compulsions masquerading as passion. But it is broken, debilitating, and exhausting.

Your husband's choices are illogical and... when you get down to it... infantile, broken and stupid. And, when you get right down to it... probably have nothing to do with SEX at all. It has more to do with devaluing himself ... this is his allure. But it is so elusive to him.

The only reason my husband isn't 'acting out destructively' using sex as his weapon to harm himself... is because the underlying 'voices' (so to speak) that direct this behavior were unmasked to him. Now he sees it in the light of day and it isn't powerful, sexual, or free. It is a prison of self humiliation and emasculation. Which is the polar opposite of what he thought he was doing.

Has he ever sought qualified, specialized, professional help?

 

Realize that for many... many men, sex has very little to do with sex.

[Gamine]

Okay then, let's look at that affirmation. Even if we accept he has compartmentalized to a degree -and we all do, for various reasons, many times it is natural and commendable- then what does that suggest? He has sealed her in a box where he pays her no mind, is not privy to any of her intimate thoughts, does not react to her as a human being and a partner and has no true intimate interaction with her? Really? Where are you getting that conclusion from? In the past 30-40 posts I've read from DI he asks yet another question having to do with yet another topic he is analyzing and -likely- over-analyzing and many of those refer to conversations he's had with her on important topics such as their M, their sexual compatibility, etc. How is that even remotely supportive of your affirmation?

 

He knows her but is not objective about her you say. Of course he is not, he cares for her, loves her, was in love with her, how would he objectively see her through any other glasses than those of their R.

 

I can't imagine why you say that other than because you insist on applying the addiction model to DI even where the mold has nothing to do with what he seems to be experiencing.

 

And even if, for the sake of the argument we accept the detachment and depersonalization you seem to think he has applied to her, how does that prove that telling her would help turn all that around? If there really was this emotional gap -and I don't believe he has one with her but with himself in the throws of guilt not addiction- how would it be mended by anything other than exploring their R together in counseling and at home which is what he's doing?

 

 

Read his posts. He has concluded that he has addictive behavior and, as a therapist himself, is giving due weight and consideration to the fact that he is acting out a compulsion and/or addictive behavior. As such, she is a component of an addiction and he has 'colorized' her from a black and white world according to the colors of the rainbow of addiction. My assumptions are not assumptions at all but conclusions from reading facts as they have been communicated.

[PhoenixRise]

This is a valid point only if we all agree that intimacy starts and stops at complete honesty. If we disregard how it is familiarity, comfort, knowledge -if not complete- of the other and so on. We can't possibly agree on all that, be it only for the fact that there are so many things making up the feeling of being intimate with a spouse that I find it hard to believe that one lack of disclosure can erase them all ESPECIALLY since he HAS told her. He hasn't told her the how and why he found out no but he HAS told her what the problem is.

 

Quid prodes? Is she going to feel closer to him because she will know when they touched? Will he be more intimate with her because he confessed when and how they consumed the A? Maybe so but it would be only guilt relief and the potential damage in her makes the risk worth considering very closely...

 

 

 

Either you know who a person is or you don't. This is not a simple inconsequential non disclosure. This is not, Honey, I forgot to pay the cable bill this month. This is someone having a whole other life with another person that was completely hidden from his wife.

 

Nobody can keep a secret of this magnitude and achieve true intimacy with the person you are hiding from.

 

Right now, DI's wife has no idea who he is. She can't have real closeness with him because there is a whole side to him that she is clueless about. He can't truly be close to her because he knows that at the end of the day, she doesn't know the worst he is capable of. You can have a fleeting feeling of cloesness with someone. For most people this doesn't satisfy long term and they seek out affairs and other behaviors to fill the void left by superficial closeness. Feeling intimacy is not the same thing as being intimate.

 

AND Yes, his wife will be hurt and she might leave him. OR eventually, she may be relived to have all the peices of the puzzle and decide to love him warts and all if she can be convinced that he is truly trying to be a better man. Either way, she is a human being deserving of respect and she deserves the right to make an informed choice about her life.

 

I said to DI in another post that he needed to learn to respect his wife, not just based on her relationship to him, but as a woman and as a person. I think this is pretty much what Gamine is saying also.

[OW_WS]

Read his posts. He has concluded that he has addictive behavior and, as a therapist himself, is giving due weight and consideration to the fact that he is acting out a compulsion and/or addictive behavior. As such, she is a component of an addiction and he has 'colorized' her from a black and white world according to the colors of the rainbow of addiction. My assumptions are not assumptions at all but conclusions from reading facts as they have been communicated.

 

What I read was he was turning every stone. The probability that his situation is that of an addiction included.

 

Then again granted, I may not have read his every word as you did so my apologies to you both if I understood wrongly. Nonetheless, the addiction and the idea of confessing are not related. You used the first to advise the latter and that was the presumption I was challenging.

[Untouchable_Fire]

My wife has said the exact thing you said to your husband. She has told me over and over, I don't need you, I know I could find another man...but I choose you, I want you, I love you and want a life with you. This is what any healthy man wants to hear...it's a dream. There is a side of me that is healthy (believe it or not) and I can appreciate how lucky I am...then the unhealthy, needy, childish side is intimidated...she doesn't need me...so she could walk...it is becoming clear to me.

 

Is it?

 

Do you really think that is what most "healthy" men want to hear?

 

Don't most of us (men) have a natural desire... craving... for control/power? It's part of our self esteem. Where do you get that from? Work?

[Untouchable_Fire]

Either you know who a person is or you don't. This is not a simple inconsequential non disclosure. This is not, Honey, I forgot to pay the cable bill this month. This is someone having a whole other life with another person that was completely hidden from his wife.

 

Intimacy is very intangible. It can't be measured only perceived by each individual. That means each person can feel a different level of intimacy given the same amount of life sharing.

 

When thoughts and actions are held back, your feeling of intimacy with that person declines rapidly... and that other person should feel it as well, but typically not to the same degree.

 

I said to DI in another post that he needed to learn to respect his wife, not just based on her relationship to him, but as a woman and as a person. I think this is pretty much what Gamine is saying also.

 

IF he really loves his wife he will talk to her about this. IF he doesn't, it means he has lost the ability to love in a way that is not self serving!

[Gamine]

DI has stated that he would only confess if he determines that he wants to remain married and that he might confess with the two of them in MC.

 

If he decides not to remain married, he'll walk off into the sunset condemning his partner to scratching her head in therapy for years trying to figure out what she did.

 

He 'gets' to still believe that he is 'seen' as something he is not in truth. He gets to have an easier divorce and maintain control over the fantasy. But in the end someone else pays the price.

 

No one should walk away from their bar tab leaving it for those behind to figure out... and pay.

 

Being free means there is no tab we walk away from... it means that we create a life that has a path and we walk upon it. A thief has the property he has stolen as does the person who has purchased it free and clear. The underlying difference is how they came about it. If he wishes to be 'free' whether married or divorced he has to pay his own tab and not ask others to pay for what he has taken.

 

No compassionate and logically thinking human being could hide something of this magnitude from someone who they shared a life with... because even though the relationship isn't what he 'wants' or 'needs' her life still has importance independent of his own. He is taking his baggage and simply strapping it on her back.

[OW_WS]

Hmm that does put a different slant on things, Gamine. I perfectly understand not confessing if he is willing to stay and put in the work to better the M, I also completely understand not confessing if he is just willing to stay, no bettering involved but leaving the M and not confessing is simply an act of legal/practical arse covering and that's a different story to a degree.

 

I didn't know DI was contemplating not remaining in the M, everything I read lately suggested the very contrary.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Being free means there is no tab we walk away from... it means that we create a life that has a path and we walk upon it. A thief has the property he has stolen as does the person who has purchased it free and clear. The underlying difference is how they came about it. If he wishes to be 'free' whether married or divorced he has to pay his own tab and not ask others to pay for what he has taken.

 

If he chooses to end the marriage, it is Ok to not disclose the infidelity.

 

I doubt that she will be left screaming WHY??? As his car rolls down the driveway. Clearly there were some big issues to begin with, and she is well aware of them. The infidelity is not what is going to make him stay or leave... it's the marriage.

[Devil Inside]

 

 

DI, what were your roles? She was needy which fulfilled you, but what did need did you fulfill of her's?

 

 

We both fulfilled plenty of roles for each other.

 

She needed me. She admired my intellect. She admired my sensitivity. She wanted my body. She loved and accepted me. She allowed me to be vulnerable with her. She fulfilled all my sexual desires and then some.

 

I was a new kind of man for her. She grew up in a small town that was very old fashioned. Men are men, women are women, and everyone plays their role. Then I come along. I'm a man that speaks about my emotions. I listen to her. I tell her how I feel about her. I write her poems. I am an active parent. I clean house. I am different from any man she's been with...even down to the fact that I am not Caucasian. I grew up in an urban environment...I like art. At the same time I am a guy...I like football, I lift weights, I make her feel safe. I also allow her to tell me what she wants in bed, and don't let my ego get bruised when she tells me what she wants. So I fulfilled several roles for her.

[Devil Inside]

 

DI, do you think you hold resentment for either your W or the OW for never giving back equally - not being a true partner?

 

I do think that there are times that I do resent that I do so much in my marriage. I have always been an active father. I get up in the middle of the night. I make breakfast in the morning. I take them to play dates...whole nine. I also clean at least half the house and sometimes more. I take care of the cars and the yard. I work two jobs and earn about 90% of our income.

 

My wife does a lot...but more than one person (and especially my xOW) have pointed out that I work like a beast for my family. Here's the thing though...I know how to say no...and I didn't. I need to be a man and put my foot down...and I haven't. So do I have resentment towards my wife sometimes....yeah....but it is my responsibility to do something about it...ya know?

 

I often wondered how it would be different with my xOW in that regard. She is like me...super mom. We often joked about how we would have a hard time letting the other do so much...but I'll never know...and I never had a realistic view because we didn't live together and share responsibilities.

[Devil Inside]

 

Isn't that the translation of "being in love" to men? Do you not subscribe to the school of thought that implies that sexual acts are the most likely definitions of love for a male?

 

 

 

I think a lot of men...me included...achieve intimacy in a large part through sex and feeling sexually desired. However, I have really wanted a woman that I didn't love and vice-versa....that seems more like lust.

 

Love needs to have the sexual component...but other things as well for me.

[MistyK]

my responsibility to do something about it...ya know?

 

I often wondered how it would be different with my xOW in that regard. She is like me...super mom. We often joked about how we would have a hard time letting the other do so much...but I'll never know...and I never had a realistic view because we didn't live together and share responsibilities.

 

Well, don't wonder too much. My xSM was much like you, he flet he did everything while W was off getting massages. He also was as attracted to as intimidated by my independence. Anyway, what ended up happening, even though we didn't live together is that everytime I'd stay at his house I'd do all his laundry and cleaning and all that. Honestly, he did very little of anything (just a little laundry) in between when I'd do this. ANd I got to thinking, what happened to this guy who did all this cleaning for his W? The answer: he was still cleaning for his W, which is why I got no help cleaning up his own house.

 

He said it was nice to feel like he finally got taken care of. He was parentified pretty young and his W was very needy, so when the oppurtunity arose, he seemed to naturally be all too eager to have me take care of him for awhile. So perhaps, one or both of you would have been inclined to chill out and let the other take care of you.