Inside The Mind of a Cheater

[PhoenixRise]

So this is really hard. I know it is going to be a long road...but it is hard to know how much I have hurt my W. It shows in her face.

 

She told me that she wished I never told her. I think that later she will respect that I was man enough to be accountable for what I did...but right now she just wants to erase the knowledge from her head.

 

All I can do is try to be there, be honest, validate her emotions, answer her questions, and build trust back brick by brick, action by action, day by day.

 

All women are different but, I have never wished that I didn't know about my H affair. I have wished that the affair never happened, but I have never wanted to be in the dark.

 

I don't see recovery after an affair just in terms of saving a marriage, I think true recover requires the WS recovering him/herself. Some people are ok living with secrets and lies and truly believe that if they don't get caught then no harm, no foul. I think if you felt guilt about your actions, then you are not one of these people. If your wife is wise, then one day she will be happy that you are not one of these people.

 

Clearly, you both have hurt each other and you both have a lot of work to do if you are to rebuild. The good thing is, if you get all the issues on the table now, you can go forward knowing that nothing is going to come back to bite you on the a$$ later.

 

Rebuilding is a process. Regaining trust in yourself and in the marriage is a process. Hang in there.

[MistyK]

.but right now she just wants to erase the knowledge from her head.

 

All I can do is try to be there, be honest, validate her emotions, answer her questions, and build trust back brick by brick, action by action, day by day.

 

How are you coping with her new admissions?

[Devil Inside]

How are you coping with her new admissions?

 

 

It's really weird because I haven't really felt much about them since I found out. When I found out about the PA I was initially shocked, angry, and hurt. After I confessed though, I was more connected to her pain and that situation that I put her admissions to the side.

 

Today I have thought about how I feel. I am hurt...but I do forgive her. She has handled this so much better than I thought, and a lot of that is because she understands a little of what I am experiencing internally, as she had also cheated.

 

It's all kind of confusing. I am trying to focus on myself...and on being present to my wife to validate her emotions. Maybe once I feel less guilty I will feel more about her admissions.

[MistyK]

It's really weird because I haven't really felt much about them since I found out. When I found out about the PA I was initially shocked, angry, and hurt. After I confessed though, I was more connected to her pain and that situation that I put her admissions to the side.

 

Today I have thought about how I feel. I am hurt...but I do forgive her. She has handled this so much better than I thought, and a lot of that is because she understands a little of what I am experiencing internally, as she had also cheated.

 

It's all kind of confusing. I am trying to focus on myself...and on being present to my wife to validate her emotions. Maybe once I feel less guilty I will feel more about her admissions.

 

I guess my concern is that her cheating may get swept under the rug in light of your admission - and I'm sure you know that kind of thing is bound to bite you in the butt later. So much to deal with all at once....yikes. The fact that she had more A's and more in-depth affairs than you knew about explains a lot about what you were feeling leading up to your A.

[Devil Inside]

I know that I need to go slow, be patient, and sit in this process...but I don't know if my marriage is going to make it.

 

Each day I think it gets harder and harder for my W. We had completely different kinds of As...I feel that they are both wrong...but can see why mine hurt more.

 

She engaged in multiple EAs over a six year period...mostly online, a few on the phone, and one that lead to a one time PA. She did this under a fake identity...in which she was not married or had children. The other people never knew who she was. She feels that this is less hurtful then what I did.

 

I, on the other hand, had one PA that was romantic. I fell in love with my xOW. I considered leaving for her. My W is finding it hard because of the emotional connection I shared with my xOW. It is hard for her to think that I spoke to my xOW about my real life, about her and our children.

 

In a weird way I though it would be easier for her that I did this with someone that I cared about and not just some tramp...that I wouldn't risk everything just to get off...like she did.

 

In the end it doesn't matter. She is hurt by my betrayal. I am hurt by hers. I don't know if there is resolution. I hope there is. Then some days I just feel numb...and don't know what I want.

[Devil Inside]

I guess my concern is that her cheating may get swept under the rug in light of your admission - and I'm sure you know that kind of thing is bound to bite you in the butt later. So much to deal with all at once....yikes. The fact that she had more A's and more in-depth affairs than you knew about explains a lot about what you were feeling leading up to your A.

 

I have definitely stored away all my emotions about her infidelity to deal with the crisis of my disclosure. I am feeling worse and worse about what I did.

 

However, I am also angry that she wants to compare our infidelity. An A is an A. I understand how mine is worse...but she must have had online "chats" with over 20 men.

 

I don't even know what to think. I want my kids. I want a normal life. I want serenity...I know that.

[foreal]

However, I am also angry that she wants to compare our infidelity. An A is an A. I understand how mine is worse...but she must have had online "chats" with over 20 men.

I understand how mine is worse

 

WTF is this moral relativism all about?

 

No my dear Devil, your is not worse than hers... and hers is not worse than yours.

 

They are all wrong and hurtful.

[Devil Inside]

I understand how mine is worse

 

WTF is this moral relativism all about?

 

No my dear Devil, your is not worse than hers... and hers is not worse than yours.

 

They are all wrong and hurtful.

 

You're right...from a moral standpoint...cheating is cheating.

 

However, I can see that the fact that my A was for so long, involved physical and emotional connection, and involved so many lies...I can see why she is more hurt than I am by hers.

[PhoenixRise]

I know you have a lot on your plate but I agree with Foreal

 

To me, your affair is not worse than hers.

 

You both hurt each other terribly.

 

In trying to help your wife recover, don't neglect your own recovery. You were betrayed too.

[Devil Inside]

I know you have a lot on your plate but I agree with Foreal

 

To me, your affair is not worse than hers.

 

You both hurt each other terribly.

 

In trying to help your wife recover, don't neglect your own recovery. You were betrayed too.

 

Right now I am having a very hard time balancing the two.

 

Thank goodness I have therapy on Thursday.

[tami-chan]

Right now I am having a very hard time balancing the two.

 

Thank goodness I have therapy on Thursday.

 

After your wife's PA (this was before your own A, right? )...did she say she saw the pain on your face, like you see hers now?

 

Why do you want to save your marriage? I think you let one wonderful person slip through (your OW) because of this self-impose trap that you refuse to get out of.

 

DI, I was a BS (husband was a serial cheater) and remained faithful in the marriage for a long time ( raised a child, finished school, etc.). Then I became an OW(for about 4 years). Broke up with my OM last Feb(he divorced his wife and asked me to marry him. I couldn't commit as I was still married) . Told my H about affair ( H was devastated and angry). I filed for divorce last month. The process is quite painful but I am relieved at the same time.

[MistyK]

However, I am also angry that she wants to compare our infidelity. An A is an A. I understand how mine is worse...but she must have had online "chats" with over 20 men.

 

At the risk that I will flamed to death for this, let me say that I find your W's transgressions worse, just in sheer volume! And even after you "recovered" from the EA you knew about, she continued and was never really open and honest. You at least have told the truth here. Your W is a serial cheater, and I'm willing to bet that you STILL aren't hearing the whole truth from her.

 

I may be totally wrong, but I bet your A would never even have happened if you W wasn't so busy devoted her energies to other men. I'm not blaming her, but I'm just saying you guys are in a situation where no one wins. She's chronically looking for someone else and living in a fantasy world as someone else and you left a big part of yourself and your heart with the OW. I guess I am just wondering out loud if saving your M was worth losing your OW for now.....sigh.

 

I hope you fiond your peace DI.

[drmcdreamy]

Devil - you said on page one that you love your W, but are not IN love with her.

 

As a general question to anyone in a marriage like this - why do people choose to stay with someone they care about, but don't feel passion for anymore?

 

Is the sense of obligation, history or the reluctance to hurt your partner so strong, that it overwhelms the desire for personal happiness and fulfillment?

 

I ask because I wouldn't spend 10 minutes with someone I wasn't in love with anymore, regardless of length of relationship or kids, etc., so I am genuinely curious about why people make this choice.

 

To revive this (since I haven't been on in a while), there are different kinds of love, and different stages of love, and any relationship is going to go through phases, and I think when you realize this, you don't throw something away just because it's changed. I agree with what DI wrote later - usually the beginning of the relationship is an exciting, new, "in love" feeling, which naturally progresses to something more stable, but maybe less exciting. If everyone ditched their mate after that first phase was over, I think 99% of relationships would end after a few years. I think that would be sad. There's something great that comes from a long-term relationship, one that survives even when a certain spark has gone. It's not saying that anyone feels "forced" or "doomed" to that relationship, it's that we realize that we do get a lot from the long-term marriage, with the love and stability associated with that, even though it's not like it was 20 years ago.

 

I brought up with my AP a few times leaving my family and marrying her, and she said (probably very correctly) "how do you know that you won't have the same feelings after 20 years with me?"

 

I guess I'm trying to say that everyone has a long set of needs and desires from their relationships, and it's unlikely that any one relationship is going to provide 100% of those all the time. It seems that we felt that we had needs/desires that were mismatched at the time with what the marriage was providing, and we thought we could get those met elsewhere. The solution isn't to necessarily throw away the marriage, but to see if there's a way to get the match back to being the best it can be within the marriage, either by changing aspects of the relationship, or by re-evaluating what our needs are and aren't and adjusting accordingly. We do this because we do still love our wives, and realize that it was wrong to expect perfection in the marriage and to betray our promises.

 

Of course if the marriage were so horrible or so loveless that it were clear that we could never come close to fulfilling our needs/wants (or reciprocating those to our spouses) we would be better to get divorced, but that seems not to be the case here.

 

And let's face it (since you mention passion) - it's a lot easier to have passion in an A when you can sneak away to her house (which was childless half the time because she was divorced and the child was with the dad), leaving your wife home caring for your kids - than it is to have that passion at home. How often do you think a married couple can do it on the kitchen table when there are a few pre-teens in the house?

[jennie-jennie]

Why do you want to save your marriage? I think you let one wonderful person slip through (your OW) because of this self-impose trap that you refuse to get out of.

 

DI, you know I always will support you in the decisions you make. But I can't help agreeing with Tami here.

[drmcdreamy]

p.s. - for those wondering, I finally went totally NC with my AP last week. I had been letting it sort of fade away - much less contact over the last month or two (but never really committing to NC) - and then she texted me saying she missed me and why did it seem things were different, and I sent her a note telling her that she had done a great job moving on with her life (as she should have), and I was happy for her, but that after 9 months after the A ended I realized I'd never be able to really move on with my life and work on my marriage with the feelings I still had for her, unless I went NC. It was very non-guilt-trip, and I told her I'd still love her, and I thanked her for the wonderful time and memories.

 

I'm really sad, but hoping y'all aren't lying when you say I'll get better.

[drmcdreamy]

After your wife's PA (this was before your own A, right? )...did she say she saw the pain on your face, like you see hers now?

 

Why do you want to save your marriage? I think you let one wonderful person slip through (your OW) because of this self-impose trap that you refuse to get out of.

 

DI, I was a BS (husband was a serial cheater) and remained faithful in the marriage for a long time ( raised a child, finished school, etc.). Then I became an OW(for about 4 years). Broke up with my OM last Feb(he divorced his wife and asked me to marry him. I couldn't commit as I was still married) . Told my H about affair ( H was devastated and angry). I filed for divorce last month. The process is quite painful but I am relieved at the same time.

 

Wow. So you had a husband who was cheating on you and you stuck with him? Then you ended up divorcing anyway. And when YOUR other man proposed to you (after he left his wife, maybe specifically for you), you rejected him? And you want to know why DI didn't leave his wife for the OW? Ouch.

 

How do you think your other man feels right now? Why did YOU let your OM slip away instead of immediately filing for divorce when the OM proposed? Now that you're divorced (and available) are you going to go back to the OM and accept his offer?

[Devil Inside]

After your wife's PA (this was before your own A, right? )...did she say she saw the pain on your face, like you see hers now?

 

Why do you want to save your marriage? I think you let one wonderful person slip through (your OW) because of this self-impose trap that you refuse to get out of.

 

DI, I was a BS (husband was a serial cheater) and remained faithful in the marriage for a long time ( raised a child, finished school, etc.). Then I became an OW(for about 4 years). Broke up with my OM last Feb(he divorced his wife and asked me to marry him. I couldn't commit as I was still married) . Told my H about affair ( H was devastated and angry). I filed for divorce last month. The process is quite painful but I am relieved at the same time.

 

I was thinking about this on my run this morning, then I came here and read it...strange how the universe works.

 

Last night, finally, I experienced some anger over the recent discovery of my W's infidelities. Infidelities that she kept hidden for years. I had asked her point blank about the PA after it happened..and she denied it. I think my guilt had prevented me from feelings of betrayal.

 

It was good for me to feel this. It means that maybe I am getting back some self respect. That I do feel that I am worth it.

 

My xOW is a gem of a woman. Yes, she cheated on her husband (twice). But...she is one of the most beautiful people (inside and out) that I have ever met. There are things that she taught me that I will never let go of. She will always have a place in my heart. I will always love her.

 

My W is also a special woman. She has cheated on me. But...she is warm, loving, and caring. She has such a big heart. She has helped me to become the man I am today. She is the mother of my children. I will always love her as well.

 

Love in unconditional...but relationships are not. I cannot help who I love, and the cheating aside...these women are both women that many men would fall for and be ecstatic to call their own. However, it does not mean that I need to be with either.

 

My xOW...bless her heart...is great, but that boat has sailed. The pain I have caused that woman is something that will probably never be undone. I know that she will make some man so happy. To tell the truth, even if I got divorced...I don't know if I could call her...for one, it would be unkind to undue her healing, and two, I don't know if I could handle her husband or boyfriend picking up the phone.

 

My wife. She and I have been through it...and we're in it right now. I do love her...and I know that the pain I see in her eyes when she looks at me causes me to feel horrible. I am trying to reach a place where I can forgive her...but it is going to take some time.

 

This process...right now...is about me. I will give it some time, but there is a real possibility that when it is all said and done the only choice I will have is to be alone. Either way, I need to get to a point where I can stay with my wife for the right reasons or leave for the right reasons. She will also have a jouney...and I have to let her take that. The we have a relationship to work on...but that can't happen properly until I get to a point where I know what I want.

 

I know that it seems weird to be selfish now...I mean come on my A was selfish...a lot of my posts come off as selfish...and I agree. However, there is a difference in whinig about how life is unfair and saying I love myself enough to make the choices I want based on what I need and deserve. That is where I am now...well on the way...and to tell you the truth it feels oddly comforting. As I stand in this hurricane I am confident that I will come out of this better then I was before.

[Devil Inside]

p.s. - for those wondering, I finally went totally NC with my AP last week. I had been letting it sort of fade away - much less contact over the last month or two (but never really committing to NC) - and then she texted me saying she missed me and why did it seem things were different, and I sent her a note telling her that she had done a great job moving on with her life (as she should have), and I was happy for her, but that after 9 months after the A ended I realized I'd never be able to really move on with my life and work on my marriage with the feelings I still had for her, unless I went NC. It was very non-guilt-trip, and I told her I'd still love her, and I thanked her for the wonderful time and memories.

 

I'm really sad, but hoping y'all aren't lying when you say I'll get better.

 

Well done my brother. No lie, it will get better...you may always have a scar over that wound...but at least now it can heal.

[drmcdreamy]

My xOW is a gem of a woman. Yes, she cheated on her husband (twice). But...she is one of the most beautiful people (inside and out) that I have ever met. There are things that she taught me that I will never let go of. She will always have a place in my heart. I will always love her.

 

My W is also a special woman. She has cheated on me. But...she is warm, loving, and caring. She has such a big heart. She has helped me to become the man I am today. She is the mother of my children. I will always love her as well.

 

Love is unconditional...but relationships are not. I cannot help who I love, and the cheating aside...these women are both women that many men would fall for and be ecstatic to call their own. However, it does not mean that I need to be with either.

 

My xOW...bless her heart...is great, but that boat has sailed. The pain I have caused that woman is something that will probably never be undone. I know that she will make some man so happy. To tell the truth, even if I got divorced...I don't know if I could call her...for one, it would be unkind to undue her healing, and two, I don't know if I could handle her husband or boyfriend picking up the phone.

 

Well put, DI. I guess you and I were both lucky to have found two wonderful women that we are/were able to love. It hurts, having to choose, but isn't the saying "It's better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all." You know, I can sit here feeling sorry for myself that I can't clone myself and stay in my family (which I love) and also be with my xOW (who I love), but I can't think of any man who I would consider luckier than I am right now - I still have an imperfect but very very good marriage to a great woman and I got to be with another unbelievably wonderful and beautiful (inside and out) woman too. I still love both of them, and I know they both love me, eventhough the impossible is just impossible.

 

Re: if you got divorced ... I think I saw that only about 20% of people who get divorced for an OW/OM end up marrying that person, and 66% of those end in divorce. Odds are seriously against someone leaving one for another and that second one ends up being for eternity.

 

Thanks for your support about NC. I guess it's like any addiction - God give me the strength to make it just through today.

[MistyK]

Re: if you got divorced ... I think I saw that only about 20% of people who get divorced for an OW/OM end up marrying that person, and 66% of those end in divorce. Odds are seriously against someone leaving one for another and that second one ends up being for eternity.

 

 

I really don't think if DI divorced it would be for the OW. I think he realizes that too much damage has been done with his refusal to legitimize their relationship when he had the chance. I think he may finally see clearly. I'm glad that he now has more information to make his decision with - I wonder if he would have divorced to be with his OW if he had known what his W had been up to all along. Too late now, but at least now he can make a choice clear of guilt and "affair fog" as to whether his M is worth saving.

[drmcdreamy]

I really don't think if DI divorced it would be for the OW. I think he realizes that too much damage has been done with his refusal to legitimize their relationship when he had the chance. I think he may finally see clearly. I'm glad that he now has more information to make his decision with - I wonder if he would have divorced to be with his OW if he had known what his W had been up to all along. Too late now, but at least now he can make a choice clear of guilt and "affair fog" as to whether his M is worth saving.

 

I didn't mean to suggest that he should have divorced his W for the OW. I had the same thoughts at times. I just wanted to point out to anyone reading that it usually doesn't work out. I think it has to do exactly with the "love" vs. "in love" thing that was brought up before - that passionate, head-over-heels love that always seems to pass and settle into something else, and I guess when you leave to get that new rush, you have to understand that it's going to pass with that person too someday (probably).

 

Thanks for all the things you've written, MistyK. I've been reading them and they help me too (though they're usually directed at DI). Hang in there DI - you're a good and brave man.

[PhoenixRise]

DI

 

I am glad to see that you are now processing your feelings regarding your wife's infidelity. No matter what happens in your marriage you would not be well served long term if you gloss over how you feel about it.

 

It seems that you have decided that both women are great great women in spite of their flaws, on the whole I would say that is a pretty balanced way to look at things.

 

Give yourself the time to determine what is best for your life. Maybe you and your wife will find a way to rebuild a great marriage. Maybe not.

 

You and your wife both have a lot of work to do.

[MistyK]

Thanks for all the things you've written, MistyK. I've been reading them and they help me too (though they're usually directed at DI). Hang in there DI - you're a good and brave man.

 

I hope I can help someone. I'm in a lot of pain and I would like to think it's not all for nothing. I wish you the best in your situation...I'd happily explore it more if you start your own thread, or you can feel free to PM me.

[Devil Inside]

Just wanted to write down a little update:

 

I have been with my new IC for about two weeks now. We are about a month out from the double D-day.

 

I have reached a very strange emotional state. I was mostly numb the past week or two. I am now starting to feel some anger and pain about my W's affairs.

 

I am starting to feel irritated and upset about her reactions. I find myself going cold. She tells me that she wishes we never told each other about our affairs..she was never going to tell me...she feels it is selfish...and that we would have been better off not knowing.

 

This makes me feel like she would rather keep living in the world of illusion. Where we front having this great marriage and then fulfill our childish and selfish needs for attention in the fantasy outlets of infidelity.

 

It also creeps me out because I know how much I wrestled with my own integrity over disclosing my affair. In the end I did tell her...and I felt like this was the only way I could have any integrity and believe in myself as a decent person one day. I believe this, feel this...and then she goes and says she never wanted it to come out...what does that say about her integrity?

 

The worst thing is...I feel these things..and then it comes full circle back to me. Whatever I feel about her...I am feeling about myself. It is an emotional trap. It has made it difficult for me to even be around her. However when i get cold and shut down she gets insecure and says she feels like she is the only one trying.

 

I just don't know. How do you heal from an affair and also be there to help your spouse heal from the one you had at the same time?

[ladydesigner]

I just don't know. How do you heal from an affair and also be there to help your spouse heal from the one you had at the same time?

 

Wow I feel for you DI it is like a double blow. I would say with much patience and perseverance. I admire you for coming out in the open with your A. I still cannot. I feel I would end up leaving my marriage because my husband would become so paranoid he would send me running.

 

I would like to ask you a question (and I'm sorry if it is a tough one to answer). During these trying times with your wife do you find yourself thinking about your xOW more? I know when things start getting rough between my H and I that I tend to start thinking about xOM again.