Over or not over?

[mimiminx]

AHHH... as I just finished my last post, went on FB and guess who sent me a chat? All he says is "what's up?" How nice. I didn't respond. I'm not going to. I thought about it for a second but didn't do it. His ears must've been ringing. This cyberspace communication crap is ridiculous and I won't have it from him. Ha!

I saw that he was on there waiting for my response and I logged off. Slap in the face dude! I don't want to hurt him, really I just won't stand for that kind of passive relationship. He's trying to be nice or something? Whatever...

Now he knows I'm ignoring him.

[seoa]

...I was doing so well yesterday... but today I have been crying nonstop.

 

...I know I am supposed to be "letting him go" but I am so depressed I can't seem to get any stronger. I know I am sometimes, but here I am today... lonely as ever thinking the love of my life is out having fun, forgetting all about me. Not missing me.

 

...I can't ever imagine being able to trust him or any other man again because he was the LAST person in the entire world who I thought would hurt me or leave me. In fact, the thought of being with another man makes my stomach turn.

 

...I've tried to stop loving him but I just can't. My feelings for him have remained the same, if not grown in this past month.

 

...I like to daydream. "Reunion scenarios". I am not letting go. I am trying my best to let him go, but not our love.

 

...I've done a lot of thinking since he left if this is the kind of man I want. He does have some issues that I mentioned before that are able to be somewhat easily changed, but he has fulfilled all of the qualities that I want and need in a partner. We had a very loving relationship. He made me feel incredibly loved, safe, and happy. He has his faults but he is the man I want.

 

....I know for a fact that when you let go, that's when things happen. I can't let go. I keep holding on...

 

...Some days I am ok, some days like today I feel better isolating myself and wallowing in my pity. I thought the more time went by, the more clearly you could see your relationship objectively. My feelings are just as strong. I just wonder if he's forgotten about me. I'm so sad.

 

Oh Mimi - so much of what you've written describes how I've been for the last 2 months... And I just want to say, in some ways, 'moving on' is over-rated. I have found it hardest when I've been trying to force myself to 'be sensible' and 'figure out what I've learned from this r'ship to take into the next one'. I don't think I have learned anything, except (1) I want a guy just like him without the CP issues, and (2) that I can't trust a guy who shows in so many ways - to me and to all our friends and family - that he wants to be with me. Not helpful lessons!

 

The best advice I've had during this was from a wise older married male friend, who said that the only thing I needed to have learned at that point was that I loved him, and still wanted him back. (He didn't say it, but the implication being that other lessons would come with time, but right now, don't stretch for those you're not ready to learn.)

 

I looked up the 5 stages of grief when we first broke up (denial, anger, depression, bargaining, acceptance), and I have used that to justify rather large amounts of living in denial... It's all about getting to the end of the day, then the week, then the month - and doing it with your self-respect intact.

 

So if denial is what makes you eat right, exercise right, get out in the world & act normal - then a little bit of denial never hurt anyone (so long as you're combining it with NC so that you keep your self-respect - i.e. only HE shouldn't find out about the denial!).

 

I've alternated between days I hide inside and cry a lot (admitting reality), and days I am my fabulous self again (denial) - working through the sadness is necessary, and expected...

 

Make plans that focus on other people, so that you have a reason to do days of normality - then allow yourself to fall apart in the bits in between, until you no longer need to do that.

 

I woke up this morning and truly felt that he has so many issues I'm not sure I do want him back! OK, I'll probably retract that at a later point, but it's been a whole couple of hours of feeling this way... So: progress...!

[mimiminx]

OMG... my phone just rang and it's HIM!!! This worked.. he left a message. Wow. I haven't listened to it yet. I am not going to respond. Geez.. just as I was so upset he hadn't called me. Rush of anxiety!

I just listened to the message.. he sounded 'nice' like he usually would talk to me. Said "hi m, i'm just going to bed, saw you were on facebook. Give me a call back anytime...I'll talk to you later."

Keep ignoring right?? Wow, I can't believe this just happened. This does not mean he wants to get back together. I know that. I will continue to ignore unless someone tells me otherwise. I feel a surge of happiness.

Again, went back on Facebook. Sent me another chat.. "hey- we still on talking terms?" IGNORED. I really wanted to tell him "no, I cannot be just your friend" but I didn't. Should I have? This is crazy. Is me ignoring him going to force him to see what he's losing??

I am posting here instead of contacting him tonight.. it's helping alot.

[TaraMaiden]

Please do the following.

delete his profile and hide his messages, and do NOT bring them up again.

 

Get this:

Even if you are not responding, you are still playing into his hands by even looking at what he's put, and at one moment or another, when you are feeling less strong and more low - he will get to you and weaken you and get you to respond.

Don't just ignore him - De'face' him.

Obliterate all incoming and don't read them!!

 

Remember this from the 'No Contact guide'???

 

Q. What should I be doing to implement NC?

A. Absolutely cutting all ties to your ex. That means no calls, emails, text/sms, IM's - nothing. You need to vanish completely from their life and in the process, make them disappear from yours. In addition, get rid of their phone number, emails and email address, remove all the pictures/photos/memories/gifts.

 

Do it!!

[logitech]

Mimi I too feel your pain. I've now posted on a few forums here and my situation is similar to yours in many ways (obvious difference being that I am male ) Anyway, my girl left me, we were engaged 6 months ago yada yada yada. I am trying to do NC but there are many things that sort of get in the way of that. The best thing I have done for my own sanity recently was to stop looking at Facebook where she treads. I have added her and her best friend to a limited profile group that really can't see what I am doing. I have also removed her and her friend from my news feed so I can't see what she is up to. I don't need to hear the little comments here and there because everything hurts. She ended up sending me a message through the FB message system asking about when my hockey finals are since she told me that she wants to see them even if we are apart. I would do anything I could to be with her again if I only knew what to do, but at the moment NC definitely seems the best way. I said in another post somewhere that when you actually start to do it, you actually start to feel empowered by it. Hopefully you can see it through your NC as I am trying to do with mine too.

[Beeotch]

Mimi..... Your ex is most likely not over you.... Just because they don't contact you does not mean they don't think about you.... Believe me right now he is doing you a favor by not contacting you.... He may have issues that just don't get resolved over night.... The longer you go NC the more you see outside an emotional plight into a more objective view.... Just wanting to get back together because you miss someone is not going to solve the problem of why the breakup happened in the first place....

 

I understand the pain is excrutiating especially the first 3 weeks of NC.... I am 6 weeks NC and it still hurts, but it hurt alot more in the beginning. It is best for me if he does not contact me, as the temptation is to great right now and not enough time will have passed for me not to go with the emotion when I know if he ever did want me back.... I would have to go with it on a more logical explanation of why we keep breaking up, and if that person is capable of change and realizes his demise and maybe my demise as well.... how could we rectify it not to repeat the same patterns.....

 

So very true as well

 

I always say: The medicine that does the job does not always taste the best

[mimiminx]

Went to see a therapist today. Helped to talk with a professional. After the events of last night I had trouble sleeping. I appreciate everyone's input but in the end I am going to have to do what I feel is best for me, even if it is hard. I've decided NOT to wipe him out of my life. I am not going to delete him from my life and pretend he doesn't exist. That does not help me. As advised by the therapist, I should think about it for awhile and do what I feel is best. It's easy for people to dish out advice and tell you what to do, but only you know what feels right for yourself. I want to maybe in a day or two send him an email saying that I cannot be just your friend. I want to tell him that I cannot have that kind of relationship with him.. maybe in a year or two but not now. I want to tell him I've started going to therapy, and that I am trying to move on because he's chosen not to reciprocate in our relationship. I am going to ask him to respect my decision. I just want to be honest. I don't hate him at all, we didn't end on bad terms, I love him. But I will not settle for the "friend zone" if that's what he wants to establish... I'm not sure where he's going with this communication. I think I have to tell him that I am trying to move on and still have so many unanswered questions. If he's chosen to exit and give up, then I have to ask him to please let me be.

I can't imagine why he would think it's all ok to contact me and that I could just pick up the phone and be fine and dandy with everything. I keep thinking there must be a reason he is so persistent with me but for now I am "rejecting the breadcrumbs". Just because he is contacting me incessantly does NOT mean that he regrets his decision and is coming back to me. I know that. I just need to be honest with myself and him. I will ponder the email idea for a day or two.

[TaraMaiden]

That seems sensible.

well done for going to therapy.

you're right of course, it's eminently easy for everyone to spout advice and they may well be right - our hearts were in the right place.

If this is a decision you've come to - and of course, it is - then it's the right one for you, because you've thought about it, taken advice and weighed it up with a professional.

 

I wish you well.

Life is never cut and dried, it just seems that way when it's in black and white, in front of you, on a screen.....

[mimiminx]

Just got home and checked my facebook. He sent me a private message after I ignored his 3 attempts last night to contact me. I cried when I read the message. Just when I was thinking his feelings for me were on a platonic level...

He said "Tried to chat and call you last night, as I'm sure you know. I hope you aren't too angry with me. We should definitely be good friends because we know each other so well and like one another too. Call me soon, I love you, like you, miss you."

I know this means nothing.. I haven't responded and am not sure when I will. I have already decided to send him an email saying that I don't want to be just friends, he told me to move on and please let me do so. We were "good friends" before.. the entire length of our relationship. I cried when I read it.

He loves me, likes me, and misses me, but not enough to be with me, huh?

I feel the same way except I'm the one who wants to be with him.

Wow...

This threw me for a loop. Seems like the guy really isn't ok with this whole breaking up thing.

Would love to hear some input. Are these "breadcrumbs"?

[NopeNah]

Yes they are "breadcrumbs". You are the "having his cake and eating it too,blah,blah" it's all just a ploy to ease his guilt and also keep you around as a fall back plan. Don't respond at all. It's just games.

[seoa]

He said "Tried to chat and call you last night, as I'm sure you know. I hope you aren't too angry with me. We should definitely be good friends because we know each other so well and like one another too. Call me soon, I love you, like you, miss you."

 

Wow...

This threw me for a loop. Seems like the guy really isn't ok with this whole breaking up thing.

Would love to hear some input. Are these "breadcrumbs"?

Of course he's not OK with the breaking up - he misses *some* things about being with you... so what he wants (selfishly) is to have just those things...

 

My ex wanted this - all the good things about having a girlfriend (support, validation, company when it suited him, etc) but none of the downsides (actually being in a relationship, coz that triggers his relationship fears).

 

It's not game playing, but it's still breadcrumbs.

 

And it's awful.... Aghhh.....!

[TaraMaiden]

mimiminx, it sometimes helps to realise that occasionally, although men seem to progress into adulthood, the expressions of their sentiments are like those of a 9-year-old....

I'd like any gentlemen reading this to please understand, I don't say that in a patronising, condescending or sarcastic way.

Some men really do have difficulty evolving emotionally, and his words seem to me to be childish and manipulative.

Kids are. Extremely....

 

They are, sadly, exactly as you describe.

breadcrumbs.

He's tugging at your heartstrings to make himself look and feel better, not you.

If he says he loves you, he must be lovable, right?

"Look! I said I love you...Go on - now say you love me back!"

So of course, you'll respond, because after a while, mums respond to kids - anything for the quiet life!

He's just tug-tug-tug-tug-tug-tugging at your skirt, while you're busy trying to peel potatoes......

 

See...?

[seoa]

And yes, mine also couldn't bear to think I was angry (or upset!) about the breaking up (well, he won't call it 'break up' - coz that "sounds too harsh" - he can only say that we "parted" ).

 

By all means (I only 'mostly' agree with NC) let him know that you're not angry, it's just about 2 different sets of needs - he needed to stop being a boyfriend and you let him make that choice, you need to stop being a friend so he must let you make yours.

[mimiminx]

I like your analogy TaraMaiden about the pulling on the skirt...

Yes, he persists. He keeps persisting,(even after that last email) I keep ignoring. Let's see some actions not these mere words. To think of how crushed he must be that I am not responding... that doesn't make me happy it makes me sad. If he really wanted to give this another go, I would think he would make it so, not just try to establish some kind of "ok" ground to tiptoe back on into my life. And being "friends"... I'm not sure that's all he wants from me. You don't say I love you to a friend the way he did to me. What the hell does he have to say to me?! The loose ends are pretty much all tied up, he must be bored and lonely and missing the wonderful woman he left (ME). He IS acting like a 9 year old who won't give up. He's going to be 30 years old! This is not some high school relationship... these are real adult feelings and I'm now dealing with a boy pulling at my skirt trying to get my attention and a reaction. He can sulk and be without me since he made that active choice. He's far away from me and he can't have me... it's sinking in for him. I still love him. AHHH.. staying strong.

[seoa]

To think of how crushed he must be that I am not responding... that doesn't make me happy it makes me sad.

 

Of course you are sad at the thought that the man you still love is hurting... No-one would expect any other reaction... Why would you even think that you should be happy about it...?

 

And being "friends"... I'm not sure that's all he wants from me. You don't say I love you to a friend the way he did to me.

 

No, he doesn't just want to be friends, in the way that people normally define friends. He wants to pick & choose the bits from your relationship that suit him. Unfortunately, it's all about him at this point.

 

What you need to do (and I'm sure your therapist has said something along these lines) is to make sure that your needs are being *equally* met from this relationship.

 

Yes, he needs to know that you still love him - because that helps him to feel good about himself, and stay strong in his decision to break up with you...

 

And that's kinda the point of NC - I'm not a strict NC advocate, but it does mostly make sense. If you keep supporting his singleness by being there for him and meeting his needs, where's his incentive to change and start meeting yours?

[mimiminx]

Well said, Seoa. Yes, of course it's about needs being met equally. I like what you said about if I support his singledom, fulfill his 'needs' by cyberspace or radio waves due to our physical distance as ridiculous as that is, what incentive does he have at all? My dad even said that...I am enabling him by talking to him. Nothing will change if I keep doing it. You and he are right!

Also I just put that it doesn't make me happy because... I don't know.. I think some people might get a power trip or something to think of the person who broke their heart being in pain too I guess.

Btw, I don't know how to "quote" specific sentences... how do I do this? Thanks:)

[seoa]

enabling... Yeah, in a lot of ways, I think these guys are 'addicted' to their bad behaviours, so they need to 12-step their way out of it - firstly by *admitting* that they have a problem...

 

for the different quoting options...

 

1. there's a 'multi-quote' button next to the quote button, if you want to quote from more than one person...

 

2. liberal use of the delete button, so that only the bits you're answering are left

 

3. you can create a quote from scratch, by starting with [.quote.] (without the full stops, obviously!) and ending with [./quote.]

 

like this

[mimiminx]

Things have gotten kind of interesting here. Last night after his message to me, he kept persisting and I kept ignoring. Sent me 3 texts.. hey, goodnight, and we're gonna have to talk when I get back is that ok with you? Didn't respond. I know I'm not supposed to be checking in on him on FB, but I noticed that he had removed his relationship status! It used to say SINGLE when he left, but he removed it to say nothing! Thought that was interesting. When I did that, (mine says nothing) it's because I was uncomfortable and didn't like the fact that I was not in a relationship anymore. Know what I mean? It's very different to say "single" than nothing at all. I dunno...

Today he sent me another 2 FB messages. No reply.

He knows I'm around, just not accepting the breadcrumbs.. I'm thinking that maybe he's having second thoughts. We'll see. I'm still going to send him that email saying I can't be just your friend, it's all or nothing kind of deal. I will post my draft in the next few days. Until then, continuing with ignoring his attempts. I will not be sucked in. Feel sense of power and it feels good.

[logitech]

Good luck with it Mimi. I don't have the strength to check my ex's facebook any more and like you say with relationship status she changed hers to single quite quickly after the break. She claims it is so people can talk to her about it if they want so that way they know. I would prefer it didn't say anything at all coz I too chose the option of not displaying it...

 

Good luck with it all.

[mimiminx]

Having a hard day for some reason. I cried last night... I just feel like he and I are trying so hard to deny our feelings for each other. This whole not responding to him is making me feel good at the time but ultimately it makes my heart ache for him more. I thought about calling him today asking if there's something he wants to talk about. After the persistent contact on his part for over 3 weeks now, and especially in the past few days.. what does he want from me? He tells me he loves me and misses me. If we love eachother and miss eachother, why are we not together? He's all the way in Portland and all he has to do is get in his car and drive back down here. I don't expect him to just show up at my door.

I thought if I called him today to see what he wants, I might break down.. I could handle the conversation for awhile but not for very long. That's why I wanted to write him the email. I'd like to call only to ask him if there was something he wanted to talk about. He keeps asking me to call him.

This has become absolutely ridiculous. I have been feeling lately that something has got to give. It has to. I don't know what that is, but it has to. This can't go on much longer, I can't do this anymore. I don't hate him even though he broke my heart... as much as I've tried to make myself hate him I can't. I do not want to be just friends and really he doesn't either. He still has the same feelings for me as far as I know. Even after we split up, he would tell me so. I just don't understand. If I do call, I will not talk about the relationship, beg, plead, or tell him I love him. I know I can't do that. It might make me feel better, I don't know. Just curious to hear what he has to say.

[Broseph]

I know the feeling all too well and I have been so choked up the last few days, I have a big test coming up and I just cant focus. Anyways, it sounds like he loves you so much but is scared of something. When was the last time you talked to him? What did he say last time you spoke?

[Surfer Girl]

3 weeks NC.... is NC at its worst.....Please give it a little more time.... You are at the worst time of NC.... If you give it another month... you might think differently.... The first 3 weeks were the hardest time of my life.... yet.... It was to short a time to think anything could be different... It was more about missing someone and just wanting them back for selfish reasons.... As time goes on.... you will realize it isn't about the withdrawals, but about what you really need and want in a relationship that he may be unable to give you!!!

[mimiminx]

I called him today. He didn't pick up but sent me a text saying "I'm working, talk later." By the way Broseph, the last time we spoke on the phone was me telling him he needed to put in a change of address, etc. Nothing more than that. I was business-like and said goodbye. But he's been repeatedly contacting me since then (one week now). I haven't responded until now. So, I went about my day and got home a couple hours later and he had sent me an email. Says he up on the coast of Oregon staying with his stepdad and helping him with some painting for a couple days says he doesn't have reception on his phone but we can talk online later if I wanted.

So I was on FB and he came on and we ended up having a 2 hour chat! So much was said but this is a recap :At first I was very brief and said Just returning your call is there something you wanted to talk about? He said no, just wanted to talk.. started asking me about work, school, etc. I said I can't do this. I want more than a friendship from you and I can't continue talking to you like nothing is wrong and that I don't have feelings for you. If you don't want more than a friendship from me, please let me go! He said: I want more than a friendship with you, but I am not and will not return to what we had. I left because if I didn't we'd still be in the same vicious cycle. I was trying to make it work for a long time, you kept pushing and I just stopped fighting. (that is the reason he gave me why we broke up.. that I want to talk about things till they're beaten dead...)We don't have to pretend anything (meaning share how we feel about eachother). He said yes, we are broken up, we are not together. I want to share things with you, I want us to talk. I am not coming back to San Diego until December, I am not getting over you and I am not moving on. (??????)

He said he still can't get over me (after more than a month now) and that he put my picture back on his phone wallpaper because it helps him sleep! He said that was weakness.

He got a little frustrated with me because I kept harping on it, trying to understand, and he said "I don't want to start and end every conversation with you in the same place! That is why this approach has not and will never work!" He said that the 'issues' that were making him so unhappy are not so easy to just change...they are surmountable to me, but he isn't sure. He said two people can love eachother very much, but their relationship isn't good and that isn't a pretty situation. (that's where we were to him I guess)

He said that maybe we could come back together later, but if we don't then it wasn't meant to be. (????)

I tried telling him earlier that it would be too hard for me to be on a friendly level with him because if I have feelings that he can't reciprocate, it just would be pointless. He said "So you're never going to talk to me again? how can you go from loving me to hating me?" I said I don't hate you it's just too hard. I got sucked into the conversation anyway...we also ended up talking about other things...

He said that his stepdad just came back with the kids and they were going to have dinner, asked "can we please continue talking after awhile?" and I signed off saying 'after awhile'. My friend came over for a few hours and he had sent me some messages on chat and an email. I responded saying that i was busy but we can continue talking in a little while. he said sure. By the time my friend left I tried to contact him but he wasn't on the computer. (it's after midnight now I'm sure he's asleep)

Ok, so this is what I get from this... he wants more than a friendship from me, but he will not return to what we had. Having the distance to him and not being in the relationship anymore is what he's choosing to do right now.

He's wanting to talk, maintain communication with me, and maybe we can come back together, or fate can intervene and we won't. He clearly wants and hopes that things could change (the reasons why he was unhappy) but he's just not sure if they can. We are talking about those things, both of our reasons. He's telling me what hasn't worked and will not work for him.

I can't wait around for him. I need to shut the door. I need to cut everything off, but then again, is our talking going to heal things? Is he talking to me to try and work this out? He still has deep feelings for me, we BOTH do, after over a month... but we aren't together. I guess he thinks that if he came back it would be great for awhile, but then the same old issues would come up. I said that I am willing to actively work on those things... how can we work on things if he's in another state?

I need to sleep on this one... i don't want to talk to him every day and have my heart broken all over again in another month after he's still not back here. I don't want that. I don't hate him, I love him very much but I think I have to cut it all off now. I was thinking that he might be starting to have second thoughts since the communication has dramatically increased on his part and things that he has been doing.

He's missing me, he's missing the sex, he's missing the love. He does love me. But...? Is our contact a way to get through to the other side? To make things better between us? Why would he go to all the effort to talk things over with me and tell me what hasn't work and what won't work if he was done with it??

All I know is that I feel better when I do talk to him than when I don't. It helps to understand. It makes me feel good to know that he still loves me and has romantic feelings for me. He had sent me a couple messages earlier and he had tagged me in a couple photos. The pictures were of us in Hawaii last year on his boat. He made an album "Memories" and there were a few of us in there... he titled one picture of us 'Happy Times', and another picture of me making a surprised face ' you're going to put that where?' and another picture of him smoking a cigarette in bed 'The "after" smoke'

He's longing for me, and now starting to make sexually explicit comments.

I don't understand... if you love someone and you want to be with them, you do it. You work things out. You actively address the problems. You don't want to be apart. If there are things that are making you unhappy, you address them, put all your effort into changing them.

If you don't, you don't. It really seems like black and white to me.

Thoughts?

[mimiminx]

3 weeks NC.... is NC at its worst.....Please give it a little more time....

 

It hasn't been 3 weeks NC, we had NC for almost 2 weeks immediately after he left, then some contact for 2 weeks, now after me ignoring all his persistent efforts to contact me for a week, I broke it tonight.

[leap83]

Mimi: To be honest, if a guy told me that, I would sign off right away. He thinks YOU need to change?!?!?! What about him?! He's acting like a child. IMO you should cut it off completely. I know you love him but honestly, you will NEVER heal or move on if you keep talking with him. That's a fact. You'll just miss him more and more. He ran away from you and now he says you have issues?! WTF!!!!! Instead of telling you what is making him unhappy and then trying to work through it face-to-face. Wow... He makes me angry. This situation makes me angry.

 

Cut him off. There's nothing to think about. You'll find someone better. It's so childish to not communicate!!!! You get what I'm saying...