Over or not over?

[northstar1]

Fact is people on this site have tried harder to give you what you need, reinforced your worth and overall supported you then this guy.

 

Over 250 post full of thousands of words while is he could have done it with one action...showing up at your door and with only 9 words... "I love you and will be with you forever"

 

Love does not need to be this hard nor this complicated.

 

True.

 

I had a long post typed up, and then realized that it would most likely not matter.

 

Mimi has her mind made up.

 

I think all of us hope she goes up there, and comes back with him in a fully committed relationship with counselling in the works and that we have all had this guy wrong.

 

However, based on everything I've seen for the 20 odd pages of posts, and from my own personal experience as a guy, who in his younger years, did his own manipulation to sleep with an ex, I think the outcome will be otherwise.

 

In my mind, "Feeling things out" equates to "I want to make sure you are not over me, and, I want to get laid".

 

Again, I hope I'm wrong.

[TaraMaiden]

#241, #256, #257..... these posts - in comparison to your long one above, (#297) ably and demonstrably indicate how very screwed up you must be feeling.

They tell, more eloquently than anything, how confused and fragile you still are.

 

if you meet up with him now - there will be no way out for you, ever again. because he's got you right where he wants you. At the end of a string dangling from his little finger, and that's where you'll always stay.

GrayCloud's two posts are rivetingly honest and extremely accurate.

 

Mimi, you're resisting everything we''re giving you right now, because you still want to cling to the one destructive lie in your life, with the fervent hope it will turn around, as opposed to the 300-odd truths you know we've given you, because you hate the fact they are leading you away from the lie.

The only one insisting there's something to go for here - is you.

Demand he come to see you.

Demand he book a hotel and see you where you are.

Once again, he's saying jump, and you're asking, 'how high?'

 

I can't stand this any more.

[CaliGuy]

He called me tonight, after he sent the email. And a lot was said. He's paying for my ticket. He wants to talk to me in person.

 

What? He's too lazy to fly down to see you so he's making YOU fly up there to see him?! This is not him beating down your door. This is him making you come up there and beat down his door. If he was really serious about everything, he would come see you.

 

I straight out told him it's pointless for me to come up there, spend a few days talking to him and then go home and we're still broken up. He said that is absolutely not his intention.

 

His intention is sex, primarily. If he wanted to really fix the relationship, he would have just gotten on a plane and flown down to see you. Is he not a strong enough man to say to his friends "I'm here on a mission so I am sorry that I won't have time to see you..."????

 

He said that he wants to see me face to face. He said we didn't end things properly.. there were too many things unsaid. He said that he made his decision when he left, and he's been struggling with it since. He thought that maybe we would both get over it and move on but he hasn't and doesn't want to. He got all choked up about it when he was trying to ask me if I had been with anyone else... he said it was pointless for me to come there if I had. I said the same to him.

 

Hmmm, well he made a decision to leave. He flat out got up, left everything behind -- including the person he is suppose to love the most. Doesn't that resonate with you lud and clear? What's to struggle with?

 

My issue if I were in your shoes (and a woman) would be "Ok, he did this once. He quit without really working on things -- when is it going to happen again?!"

 

And so, the answer is I'm going up there.

 

This bothers me. He's the one who walked away -- he is the one who should be running TO you -- not YOU running to him.

 

We talked for a long time... about the things that were making us both unhappy before.

 

But was anything resolved?! Did he recognize and accept the things he did wrong and vow to make changes or did he just say "We'll talk about it when you get here..."???

 

I asked him what his intentions were asking me to come... he said that he had no ulterior intentions..

 

Well, yes -- he does. He misses sex. He'll say what you want to hear to get you up there and keep you on a string but I don't hear (at least from what you are saying) that he honestly realizes that he screwed up and wants to fix things.

 

Tell me something mimi: Did he APOLOGIZE? Did he admit any wrongdoing? If not, you're in for a WORLD of hurt.

 

he wants to talk to me... well he wants to do more than talk to me

 

Of course he does....

 

, as he wants me to stay as long as possible. He's already looked into all the flights. I was surprised he had already done that. Gave me some dates to look at, and to let him know.. he's clearing his schedule for me. His parents have a beach house on the coast of Oregon that is their second home and he said that maybe we could stay there and have some privacy.

 

I'm sure he wants LOTS of privacy

 

He wants it to be just us. I asked why don't you come here? He said because he doesn't want to involve anyone else... he wants to talk to ME. ( I live with roommates, all his friends are here in CA and they'd want to see him) He wants to devote the entire time to me.

 

This is such bullcrap....sorry.

 

I told him that he really hurt me.. it would take a lot for me to trust him again, and that's the truth. But he might die trying to earn that back. He knows that if he looked me in the eye, the real feelings would be revealed. I've been wanting this for 2 months. We're on the same page with that now. I will go into this with "eyes wide open" and be very cautious.

 

Want to go into this "eyes wide open"??? Make him come to you. He is the one who walked away, he is the one who should be RUNNING TO YOU! Not making you fly up there to go see him. Do you see how ridiculous this is?

 

I mentioned the fact that I go up there, and I leave.. he's still there.. he was quick to say that it wouldn't be much longer till he came back.

 

*rolleyes*

 

I asked if I had an out up there.. if things got bad.. and he laughed and said sure.. but things aren't going to be bad.

 

This is why HE should fly down here. You have a guaranteed OUT down here. Up there, your options are limited -- and right now he can't guarantee you they won't go bad. Especially if he does not take accountability for his behavior and actions towards someone he is supposed to love.

 

I am completely prepared for a crushing blow of reality by going to see him. But I cannot possibly be in for worse than the past 2 months without him has been. I'm willing to take that risk. If I don't I'd have regrets.

 

This is the one thing I agree with -- but I still think if you want to test him, make HIM fly to see you, not the other way around.

 

He wants to leave the past in the past, take what we have now and build something stronger. He told me this.

 

Maybe HE can leave the past in the past but you can't. And the past is what got you here. If he doesn't learn and grow from his past mistakes then you are doomed to repeat them.

 

I will keep my guard up, and talk to him. What the hell do I have to lose? I've been wanting this whole time for us to come together and talk.

 

Talk is good. That is a really good start. But talk is talk. Actions are more important. So he wants you to come see him, he wants privacy (code word for sex, you can get privacy to talk where you are now).

 

I really want to hear what HE has done to grow as a person, fix the issues that he has, etc. Remember, this is the same guy who gave up his boat that he worked so hard for. Then he did the same exact thing with you. He's showing a pattern of behavior that shows flakeyness and a lack of discipline and integrity.

 

I don't know about you, but I have little respect for people with no integrity. Mutial respect is the foundation for love. Without respect, there really can not be true love.

 

Harmfulsweetz, I cannot say that I've wasted time on him.. it's been worth it to me, and apparently that feeling is mutual. I also completely agree with you, be with me now commit 1000% to repairing this, or never speak to me again. I totally agree with that. And.. I know you've said this to me before, when the going gets tough.. he bailed once, he can bail again. That's something to consider and I have. IF we come back together, we will need counseling for sure..

 

Honestly I think you both should go to a Counselor NOW.

 

It is definitely NOT OVER. Now, more than ever, it is not over. It never was.

I will be planning to go in the next week or so.

 

I think you should make him come to you, but that's just me.

 

Yes, times before the false hopes were castles in the sand... but now? Not so much. All those castles in the sand are actually amounting to something. Actions are coinciding with the words....so far.

 

Maybe it appears that way to you but from the outside looking in, I really think if he was serious he would be saying:

 

1. I really screwed up.

2. I'm really sorry.

3. I need help fixing my issues (counseling).

4. He'd keep the sex out of this while you are working on your issues (sex distorts rational behavior. Sex makes you do things you normally would not do if sex was out of the picture.

 

Try this, mimi. Absolutely REFUSE to have sex with him until you have worked out the issues and are back to being a couple again. That is the one true POWER you have over him. It's obvious he wants it -- but you need to make sure his desire for sex with you is not his MAIN reason for asking you to come up there.

 

The worst thing you can do is go up there, listen to him feed you whatever you want to hear until you start boinking like rabbits then fly home only to have him be wishy-washy again.

 

The only way to prevent yourself from being used and to test his sincerity is to lock yourself in a chastity belt until you are 100% completely satisfied that his goal is YOU and not what you can do FOR him.

 

Best of luck!

[LostLozz]

Mimi,

 

As much as I wish the previous posts were incorrect and that you two will be sorted after this reunion, I sadly have to agree.

 

I am sorry that I have not posted on here for a while and/or my post. It all became to much for me and I actually thought that I was doing ok for a while until recently.

 

I am going to enlighten you as to just how manipulative these CP men can be.

 

Last week a friend of mine asked me if she could pass on my number to a guy that she knows. She thought we would hit it off, and suprisingly we did.

I spoke to this guy through text and phone calls for the best part of three days and I felt great. I felt I had changed and was over the heartache of my ex. This new guy made me laugh till my stomach ached and I thought that he would be a great tonic that I very much needed at this time. He invited me out and I was keen to go on my first date since my relationship ended. Cut a long story short, one of my final conversations with him was a bit off putting. It got quite saucy and the things that he was describing as his sexual preferences were not really floating my boat if you get my drift.

 

In fact I actually thought he a bit of a freak. I am an open enough person and normally nothing makes me unsettled, however he sure as hell did this!...so I cancelled the date.

 

The following day my thoughts returned straight back to my ex and I text him. He responded and then called me. We talked for over an hour and in this conversation I made the stupid mistake of mentioning that I possibly have a date and was confused as what to do. He told me that I would never know unless I gave it a try. (This hurt!!)...The conversation continued and then he asked me out for a drink this Sunday just gone. I of course accepted. This was the first time that he had invited me out to meet up after since we split.

 

Now I will post more details in my post once I have a chance, but I will say that I am now completely and utterly confused from the outcome.

 

Sunday went well I thought. It was the first time that I had been alone with him in 2 months. I had seen him once for 5 minutes whilst at work but that was it.

We chatted and I felt as comfortable as I always did with him. We laughed and he even asked me more about this guy that I cancelled the date with. I could see that he was slightly hurt and I said that it was weird discussing this sort of thing with him.

 

Ok...so after we finished our drinks he said he was hungry, I said did he want to get some food and he kind of agreed and reminded me that I needed to go get some money out (tight arse!)...anyhow, so we are walking and jokingly pushing each other and being playful and before I know it we are in each others arms and kissing passionately. Hands everywhere and it was like we had never been apart. We then did a little more making out (and some other stuff) in his car, (classy I know..you don't have to tell me!!!!)...and then we sit and chat a little bit more and listen to music.

 

Neither one of us discussed 'US' and since leaving him that night on sunday I have had absolutely, the biggest fattest ZERO amount of contact you can imagine!!!!!

 

Now I am left wondering...WTF! I didn't discuss us, I am giving you time..and now you have your fun with me I don't even get a call, a text, NOTHING!!!!

 

Don't let it be you Mimi...

[CaliGuy]

Fact is people on this site have tried harder to give you what you need, reinforced your worth and overall supported you then this guy.

 

Over 250 post full of thousands of words while is he could have done it with one action...showing up at your door and with only 9 words... "I love you and will be with you forever"

 

Love does not need to be this hard nor this complicated.

 

Definitely agree with that last statement for sure, GC.

 

Some things I wanted to add:

 

1. No, mimi has not changed. I don't think she needs to. I think HE is the one who needs to grow and change.

2. Having HIM show up at HER door (not the other way around) would be more of a breakthrough than him asking her to "fly up and see me so we have some privacy..."

3. There is no doubt in my mind that he misses the sex.

4. He has given her no assurances of ANYTHING.

5. Where is the "I'm sorry, I screwed up, I love you just the way you are, I will fix my issues, I want this to work out..."????????? I don't see any of that posted in her messages. That is the ONLY way things are going to work.

 

This whole thing smells fishy to me. Yes, he could be a nice guy but nice guys are really good at manipulating people to get what they want. If he had integrity and honesty he would tell her what he wanted straight up.

 

There is no need to talk things out (other than to admit what he has done wrong and what HE needs to fix). He would simply say everything I listed in #5 above.

 

I don't see how her going up there is going to "change" anything. If he has not given her any assurances that HE has changed and that he wants to repair the damage HE caused then the only logical conclusion is he misses sex and will "appease" her to get it.

 

This is steamrolling toward a very bad place unless she puts her foot down and says "No, you come here. No sex. I want a plan on how you will correct your behavior and turn things around or I am done."

 

I know I keep saying it but the "romancing and sex" that he has planned for her is simply breadcrumbs. What matters is not the physical benefits of a relationship but the long term commitment. Mimi has needs that are much more than sex that he is NOT providing.

 

What assurances is she going to get that he can/will meet them in the future?

 

Mimi, make him come to you. His excuses as to why he wants YOU to fly there are lame and childish.

 

He left you. If he wants you, he needs to CHASE you. Not the other way around.

[GrayClouds]

I will keep my guard up, and talk to him.

Sister you can't even delete a email, or not answer his calls...right now you have no guard.

He said that he wants to see me face to face. He said we didn't end things properly..

 

Yes this trip is so he can end things properly...a roll in the hay and a very, very sincere good-by ( and possible "how he wished he was not so screwed up because you will always be the love of his life"...just in case he needs another roll in the hay sometime in the future)

 

 

 

 

 

I am starting to think this guy is a master, the pick-up artist Mystery could learn a thing or two from him. He able to accomplish all this even without wearing the funny hats

[harmfulsweetz]

I think you know how this is going to play out, there's been over 300 replies and most, if not all, have given you the honest truth. Make of that what you will, no one here wants to read a post which says he has screwed you over again, which is why we all hope you really consider your options. You've survived thus far without him, and the reason you are still stuck on him, is very much to do with how you've behaved in this break up. Things such as emails, phone calls, etc I'm not saying it's not understandable, it damn well is, for the first week.

 

However, I sincerely hope you do get what you go there to get, and hope he chooses to not hurt you again, good luck. Let us all know how it pans out

 

p.s. have to agree with CaliGuy-get him to go to your town, his reasons for not are transparent and flimsy. You can get away there, and you would feel safest there.

[leap83]

In all honesty, reading all of the posts you've written Mimi, (and I don't mean to sound harsh), you can't fix what is broken. Literally. He's playing you and I'm 100% behind CaliGuy on this one. If I were you, I would have long ago told him to walk and keep on walking and NEVER EVER talk with him again. He's NOT a nice guy because he DID THIS to YOU. He's a jerk. NO man in his right mind would do something like this to a woman he LOVES. NO MAN. Think about it. You're clouded by what WAS before and you're NOT looking at this for what it is NOW. It's time for you to turn the switch in your brain that keeps you in present. In the end, it DOESN'T MATTER how good of a bf he was BEFORE. What matters is HOW HE'S TREATING YOU NOW!

 

I really hope you don't make the foolish mistake of going to him. YOU didn't BREAK UP with HIM. HE broke up with YOU. Thus, HE should come to you. Not the other way around. By going there, you're showing him that you're weak and that's the last thing you want right now (because you're better than that, than him, than this situation). So, I really hope you read all of the posts and re-consider your decision.

[seoa]

OK, people, enough with the "don't fly up there" - we all know she's gonna go...

 

So: plan B - damage limitation...

 

Mimi, go, but accept what GrayClouds said - you are supremely vulnerable right now, you don't have any guards in place to protect yourself (no matter what you might think)... So listen to what LostLozz said about being with her ex last weekend, and don't let that be you...

 

Prove us wrong - prove that he wants you up there to talk...

 

Lock up that chastity belt, and don't let him use you... And I know he's not gonna intend to use you, but he might - in his confusion - do it anyway...

 

Protect HIM, and don't let him be that selfish guy who sleeps with his ex before breaking her heart all over again...

 

Protect YOURSELF, and don't be that girl who lets her ex sleep with her, then stomp all over her heart...

 

The only way you will know for sure that you are working on your relationship is if you do just that, and leave the confusing sex out of the picture...

 

Good luck - I hope it goes the way you want...

[mimiminx]

Wow everyone...uh.. thanks for your replies?

I'm going. I'm bringing the chastity belt, ok? It's gonna take 2 weeks in the meantime, and some time after I get there too for him to prove that he is sincere. Let me put it this way: put yourself in his shoes. Would you spend a couple hundred dollars, clear your schedule for a week, plan a romantic getaway, say you want to spend as much time as possible (like over a week), professing and expressing your feelings for someone,TALKING about the relationship and what went wrong and how to make it better.. for a roll in the hay?

He could have any woman he wants..he's young, very sexy, and very smart...if that's all he was after... he wouldn't want it from me, you know?

He made it very clear WHY he wants me to come there. It's not because he's not man enough to face everyone and proclaim his love for me.. he wants to devote 100% of his attention to me. Sure we could get a hotel in San Diego.. if we had the money! We are in our late twenties and don't have that kind of money. He also would be staying on a friend's couch if he came here, and he doesn't want to spend time with his friends. He wants to spend time with ME and me alone. He's taking care of all the expenses.

He said I can stay as long as I'm able to... I will definitely not be wearing out my welcome.

He DID apologize, he agrees that he contributed to this too.. he's not placing all the blame on me..he wants to make things better.

Do you recall everyone, that HE has been the one CONSISTENTLY AND PERSISTANTLY contacting me for 2 whole months?!!! Even when I have flat out ignored him for weeks at a time? Come on. If he wasn't interested and was out for selfish motives, he would have given up a damn long time ago. He tells me he loves me all the time, and I believe him. He tells me he misses me and he's been struggling with this and miserable. He says he doesn't want to lose me. He says he's never felt this way about anyone. He wants me in his life, in his future.

The worst possible thing that could happen is I go up there, things go badly, he won't be sincere, he won't commit and work things out, agree to go to counseling, do everything in his power to make this work,etc. Ok, well.. in that case, I get CLOSURE and I can move on. Is that so frickin bad?!

Isn't that good?!! The best case scenario may happen as well. Is that bad? No, that's not bad either. That's what I want.

I'm booking my ticket. We've got 2 weeks until I see him, and plenty of time to talk until then too. Got it, Caliguy, no sex until I hear the words. If I don't, well... I can stay at his sister's until I come back home.

I hope some of you can be just a little happy for me, I will heed your words and advice though, I definitely will.

Me going up there to him is NOT desperate, it's not putting the power back in his hands so he can keep me dangling by a string. Hello.... this whole time I haven't been "on the hook"... look what's happening now!! If he wanted to keep me dangling on a string, he wouldn't go to all this trouble. I certainly wouldn't. Would any of you?

[georgia girl]

Ah Mimi... as hard as it is to tell you this, I would - and I did. I agree with everyone here and, unlike some of them, my ex did come back (we don't live far apart) and ask for a second chance and acted all along in much the same manner as your ex has done.

 

I said no. It was hard but it was the absolutely right thing to do. As I've said before. It just wasn't enough. The words - without real action - just weren't good enough. He would have told you that he took "real action" because he tracked me down and begged me. He didn't work all that hard to find me - called my secretary and had her patch him through to disguise the call - and his idea of begging was to ask me out to dinner, plead his case, tell nearly everyone in town how he was going to "win me back" like the big hero and play "the sensitive guy." It was all an act. I wanted to believe it, but I didn't trust him an inch and I knew in my heart that if I caved, he would change his mind again in a week.

 

So, I walked away. Done. Over. Caput. Good luck in your life, I wish you well... I'll have a good life, too. That's when he committed to change. When he took the blame for the relationship going south and talked about his fears and how he had done this before. That's when he committed to earning my trust - with the smallest of opportunities I would give him - by proving to me that he wouldn't let me down again. He had to pursue and he had to commit to counseling (which we now go to faithfully - we're becoming junkies!)

 

My point is that I agree with Caliguy. He wants you alone for a week in a beautiful ocean home for a romantic getaway. He's lonely, he's missing having someone who thinks he's special and he, quite frankly, misses sex. He does care - not the way you want him to - but he does care. However, the key point is that he's telling you that nothing has changed and he isn't committing to a reconciliation at all. He hasn't said, "I'm coming down there. We need to get together, get our lives back on track, fix our relationship and get on with being happy. I'll be down tomorrow. Oh, and I'm bringing all of my things."

 

Anything less than that is less than what you really want. You see this as a step in the right direction - I see it as a trap. He doesn't mean to be mean, but CPs are very, very self-centered and they honestly think you know and can accept the little bit they're offering. They really don't get that they're stringing you along until they get into therapy.

 

While I think you're very clear on what you want, I think you're very clouded on how to get it. You don't stand up for yourself. You don't demand what you need. And you aren't prepared to walk away if he isn't going to offer it.

 

As Gray Clouds said, love shouldn't be this hard.

 

Take care.

[CaliGuy]

Wow everyone...uh.. thanks for your replies?

I'm going. I'm bringing the chastity belt, ok? It's gonna take 2 weeks in the meantime, and some time after I get there too for him to prove that he is sincere. Let me put it this way: put yourself in his shoes. Would you spend a couple hundred dollars, clear your schedule for a week, plan a romantic getaway, say you want to spend as much time as possible (like over a week), professing and expressing your feelings for someone,TALKING about the relationship and what went wrong and how to make it better.. for a roll in the hay?

 

Anything is possible. Not saying this is 100% his motivation but you can't rule it out either.

 

He could have any woman he wants..he's young, very sexy, and very smart...if that's all he was after... he wouldn't want it from me, you know?

 

I'm sure there is an emotional connection there as well -- that said, it may not be at the same level you have. This is why they call it a break up, because it’s broken. Every relationship fails because one person is much farther ahead or behind the emotional involvement of the other person.

 

You are clearly emotionally advanced in this relationship. I am just not convinced that he's on the same plane as you. And to be honest, his actions are proving that. Like I said, you just don't walk away from someone you are 100% sure about.

 

Of course, we could all be very wrong and he may spring an engagement ring on you. I still think it's VERY CHEESY for him to insist that you go see him rather than he get off his butt and come see you.

 

He made it very clear WHY he wants me to come there. It's not because he's not man enough to face everyone and proclaim his love for me.. he wants to devote 100% of his attention to me. Sure we could get a hotel in San Diego.. if we had the money! We are in our late twenties and don't have that kind of money. He also would be staying on a friend's couch if he came here, and he doesn't want to spend time with his friends. He wants to spend time with ME and me alone. He's taking care of all the expenses.

He said I can stay as long as I'm able to... I will definitely not be wearing out my welcome.

 

I emplore you to not sleep with him until you are officially a couple again. After all, "why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free...."???

 

He DID apologize, he agrees that he contributed to this too.. he's not placing all the blame on me..he wants to make things better.

 

Actions make things better though, not just words. His action was to take off to Oregon. He words are saying "You come to me..." Well excuse me, he is the one who left. His PROPER action should be to COME TO YOU. This is chapping my hide here because he has you wrapped around his finger and that is never a good position to be in -- in ANY relationship.

 

Do you recall everyone, that HE has been the one CONSISTENTLY AND PERSISTANTLY contacting me for 2 whole months?!!! Even when I have flat out ignored him for weeks at a time? Come on. If he wasn't interested and was out for selfish motives, he would have given up a damn long time ago.

 

He's like anyone else and when you went NC for lengthy times he started to feel like the one being rejected. Men hate rejection and tend to want what we can not have. Once he gets you, will things be different? Only time will tell.

 

He tells me he loves me all the time, and I believe him.

 

Mimi this again comes back to "Actions, not words..." His words say I love you, his actions, however, took him Oregon. You don't leave someone you deeply love. Ever.

 

He tells me he misses me and he's been struggling with this and miserable. He says he doesn't want to lose me. He says he's never felt this way about anyone. He wants me in his life, in his future.

 

Ok he needs to back up his words with actions. Having privacy up there means "He will have space to have sex with you...." at least, that is how we're interpreting it. I'm not doubting he has feelings for you nor have I ever. What I am saying is I don't think his feelings for you are as strong as your feelings for him.

 

The worst possible thing that could happen is I go up there, things go badly, he won't be sincere, he won't commit and work things out, agree to go to counseling, do everything in his power to make this work,etc. Ok, well.. in that case, I get CLOSURE and I can move on. Is that so frickin bad?!

Isn't that good?!! The best case scenario may happen as well. Is that bad? No, that's not bad either. That's what I want.

 

If that is what it takes for you to move on together as a couple or to gain closure, then do what you must.

 

I'm booking my ticket. We've got 2 weeks until I see him, and plenty of time to talk until then too. Got it, Caliguy, no sex until I hear the words. If I don't, well... I can stay at his sister's until I come back home.

 

Well I just hope you don't fall for his words without seeing solid ACTIONS that prove his words are not just empty words.

 

I hope some of you can be just a little happy for me, I will heed your words and advice though, I definitely will.

 

I'll be happy for you when you get what you want, the way that you want it. It's not that anyone isn't happy for you. Heck, a lot of people would KILL for a second chance like this. It's just -- nobody wants you to go in and set yourself up for a world of hurt -- again.

 

Me going up there to him is NOT desperate, it's not putting the power back in his hands so he can keep me dangling by a string. Hello.... this whole time I haven't been "on the hook"... look what's happening now!! If he wanted to keep me dangling on a string, he wouldn't go to all this trouble. I certainly wouldn't. Would any of you?

 

Meh, it's easy sex for him though. He knows if he can get you up there he can romance and sex you up and you'll probably melt and accept whatever breadcrumbs he offers. If he's as good looking and as intelligent as you are leading us to believe then you can't put this sort of behavior past him. I think to a degree he is manipulating you but only going up there and finding out for yourself will you truly know.

 

I am a big believer in taking chances and this is a big one. Just do so with one foot in the door and one foot out so that you can see things clearly for what they are and not how he is spinning them up to be.

 

Above all, DO NOT SETTLE. You know what you want -- GO FOR IT. And if he can't provide it to you (assurances, guarantees, whatever (like a wedding ring for example?!)) then you need to have the confidence and self-esteem to walk away.

 

Don't let your heart make all the decisions. Do your best to step outside yourself and see the relationship for what it is. See HIM for who he is. And never, ever let his words sway you. Let his ACTIONS be truth.

 

Last but not least, I will say this one more time.

 

Please

Please

 

Make him COME TO YOU.

[Surfer Girl]

We already know you are going to go.... Just know in your heart what you want from him.... For most it is a committed relationship.....If you don't set the boundries.... it won't change.... It is very easy to get into a comfort zone.... You have endured alot of pain and heartache.... and the last thing you want is to have that continue... The time alone you have had, I hope you have realized it can never be the same again... Take control and if he still cannot committ.... then you know....

 

In most cases, the ex comes back after one has moved on.... as they realize they may have lost the best thing they ever had

 

The words I would want to hear IMHO.... I can't live without you, I recognize I have issues and am willing to do whatever it takes to being committed to you.... We should seek counseling, because I realize I have problems and I need help.... I am sorry for the pain I have caused you, I am willing to do whatever it takes..... I don't want to lose you.... and then proceed to tell me why he feels like he can disappear and it would have to be an answer I could live with..... If the root of the problem is not addressed and the partner in the relationship denies the problem then it won't change..... You need to make a stand.... as they will not hit rock bottom if you continue to enable him....

[mimiminx]

"I can tell by the way you talk to me that you are keeping your emotional distance. I am too. That's why I had to come up here and not talk for a while. I never, ever want to hurt you. I love you very much. I'm not calling you up here for sex or just to re-live the "good 'ol days". I am just of the opinion that we should see one another and feel it out. I've learned a few things while I've been up here and I haven't stopped missing you. I want to apologize for being difficult and impatient at times. I don't know but I would rather take the risk to find out rather than let it all slip away. My stomach was boiling when you started cutting me out of your life. That says something too. I can't tell you the future, just like you can't tell me, but my intentions are true and honest. Please trust my actions and what I say. I can't answer all your questions in words all the time but you should know that I will never lie to you or deceive you. It really bothers me that you think that I may. Let's just go into this with open minds and focus on the present, not the past or the future. We can't change the past and the future will take care of itself. I'm very excited to see you and keep picturing picking you up from the airport and hugging you. I haven't gotten past that yet, it's all I can think about. I'm rambling but please don't mistrust me, I don't like that. It hurts that you think I would mislead you or anything. See you not soon enough. Let's cross our fingers.

 

Yours,"

 

LoveShack: if he won't commit 100% and more than that, follow up the words with concrete actions, I am gone. And I will feel damn good about leaving too. I DO stand up for myself. The worst that could happen is something I'm willing to risk, then WALK AWAY FROM WITH CERTAINTY AND END IT FOREVER. I HAVE NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT IS WHAT I WILL DO. I GUARANTEE IT.

P.S. He bought me the ticket. Again, his reason for me coming there was that he wants to devote all his time and energy to me. Here, it would be with my roommates, all our friends. He doesn't want anyone else to be involved or around.. it is just us. Plus, he has a full time job up there. I work weekends only. That is a legitimate reason for me.

Edited October 9, 2009 by mimiminx

[Surfer Girl]

What does feeling it out mean????

[GrayClouds]

He is mincing words, covering his ass.

 

I am just of the opinion that we should see one another and feel it out.

There is some solid words to build a relationship around.

My stomach was boiling when you started cutting me out of your life.

Even though it was a result of my decision to leave. But this way I can blame her for the pain.

 

I can't tell you the future,

I could, but I am not willing to say, "Only thing I know for sure about the future is I will be there by your side to love you like you deserve."

 

Please trust my actions and what I say.

But not the last action of me leaving you, that one meant nothing and I rather you not think about that. Please focus on the words because there really hasn't been any other actions except the action of you coming to me.

 

I can't answer all your questions in words all the time

Can't sounds much better then wont

Let's just go into this with open minds and focus on the present, not the past or the future.

In other words when you come up don't annoy me with talk about whats next or bring up how much of a jerk I have been to you...It will ruin my week with you.

future will take care of itself.

Actually it wont, it is going to require a great deal of work and commitment but I would rather avoid that and it is so much more romantic to leave it to fate.

 

I'm very excited to see you and keep picturing picking you up from the airport and hugging you. I haven't gotten past that yet, it's all I can think about.

Slight of hand, change the subject to one I know she will like better and make me look good.

 

I'm rambling but please don't mistrust me, I don't like that. It hurts that you think I would mislead you or anything.

Back to trust, Me think he protest to much. Lets put her on the defensive for hurting me Beside how dare her have doubts about me just becouse I walk away from here unexpectedly.

 

Let's cross our fingers.

I wonder if I can use this one for the wedding vows because no other action says I love you like crossing fingers.

Edited October 9, 2009 by GrayClouds

[CaliGuy]

"I can tell by the way you talk to me that you are keeping your emotional distance. I am too. That's why I had to come up here and not talk for a while. I never, ever want to hurt you. I love you very much. I'm not calling you up here for sex or just to re-live the "good 'ol days". I am just of the opinion that we should see one another and feel it out. I've learned a few things while I've been up here and I haven't stopped missing you. I want to apologize for being difficult and impatient at times. I don't know but I would rather take the risk to find out rather than let it all slip away. My stomach was boiling when you started cutting me out of your life. That says something too. I can't tell you the future, just like you can't tell me, but my intentions are true and honest. Please trust my actions and what I say. I can't answer all your questions in words all the time but you should know that I will never lie to you or deceive you. It really bothers me that you think that I may. Let's just go into this with open minds and focus on the present, not the past or the future. We can't change the past and the future will take care of itself. I'm very excited to see you and keep picturing picking you up from the airport and hugging you. I haven't gotten past that yet, it's all I can think about. I'm rambling but please don't mistrust me, I don't like that. It hurts that you think I would mislead you or anything. See you not soon enough. Let's cross our fingers.

 

Yours,"

 

LoveShack: if he won't commit 100% and more than that, follow up the words with concrete actions, I am gone. And I will feel damn good about leaving too. I DO stand up for myself. The worst that could happen is something I'm willing to risk, then WALK AWAY FROM WITH CERTAINTY AND END IT FOREVER. I HAVE NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT IS WHAT I WILL DO. I GUARANTEE IT.

P.S. He bought me the ticket. Again, his reason for me coming there was that he wants to devote all his time and energy to me. Here, it would be with my roommates, all our friends. He doesn't want anyone else to be involved or around.. it is just us. Plus, he has a full time job up there. I work weekends only. That is a legitimate reason for me.

 

I don't like any of this, mimi. Sounds to me like he is saying:

 

"Hey, not going to guarantee you anything. I know that I miss SOME things about you but not everything. That is why I am so flaky with my words. See, if I write things with no guarantee then my a$$ is covered when you come up here and give me sex, I send you home and I DON'T come back to you."

 

I told you. The best way to feel things out with him is to keep your jeans on and don't let him in there. If he really loves you for who you are, he will PROVE it by not making sex ANY PART of your time up there.

 

See, you can always gauge a man's interest in you if he RESPECTS your decision to say NO to sex.

 

And once again, I think it's totally classless of him to say "Come to me" when he should be RUNNING AT TOP SPEED TO GET TO YOU.

 

You say he is handsome and smart and can get any girl he wants?

 

Well I think you're beautiful and smart and can get any guy you want. Why on earth would you settle for this wishy-washy flaky guy???

[mimiminx]

Thanks everyone. My flight is in 2 weeks. I have some time to think about things. I need to take a step back now. The thread ends here. Let's say.. it's over.

Edited October 9, 2009 by mimiminx

[harmfulsweetz]

Just sounds like words to me, Mimi. Where in this is he saying 'let's give it a go'? He's not, he's offering you nothing to go on, just simple 'feel it out', 'i miss you' etc etc. Well, yes, he's said that for two months, he misses you so bad he stays in Oregon. Bullcrap. Sorry but it is. You don't want to hear it, I know that, you're blinded by your dream of him and you, it make come to pass, but nothing in that message says it will. The only time I'd be willing to go and see him (but preferably it'd be him to see me) is if he could promise me that this time it would work, he would do his damndest to do so. In fact, that email sounds far more like he's safeguarding his own a$$, 'it hurts me that you can think that'=don't listen to logic, it hurts me. That's basically what he's saying. He's not sorry he hurt you, he's sorry for his reputation, for the pain it caused him, nothing about you there.

 

I know you said the thread is over but I have to say this...you're making a mistake going to see him. You don't want to hear it, I get that, but so many people can't be wrong. We've all been there, been left hanging on a string, and we've heard every line in the book. It's hard for you to hear this, but maybe he isn't the guy you thought him to be. I remember once I was so in love with this guy, I chased him for the best of six months, (yes, six months) I would have done anything for him, because I believed him to be something he wasn't. I thought he was nice, kind, sweet, attentive etc-he really wasn't that. He gave me scraps now and then, little hints that he may want to know, but then breakthrough! Voila, he wanted to meet me, and sort something out. In the end, he slept with me, and never contacted me again. I was stupid, and young, naive, but blinded by whatever it was with him. It's not the same, but you are blinded by your ex. Right now, you see him for what he was, not for what he is. He was a nice, attentive, loving, sexy guy...he is a coward right now. He doesn't want to come to you because you don't mean that much to him, he could take holidays, he could say to his friends 'I'm here only to see mimi, we need some undisturbed time.' He isn't. You're chasing after him.

 

You're forgetting the two months of anguish, the two months of him messing you about, talking to you, then pulling away when you got to close. Giving you a little, just enough to keep you wondering, then sweeping off again. Wow, great catch. Good luck sincerely, but I hope you have your eyes and ears wide open.

[TaraMaiden]

Thanks everyone. My flight is in 2 weeks. I have some time to think about things. I need to take a step back now. The thread ends here. Let's say.. it's over.

Absolutely no way does it end here, mimi.

You can't just turn us off because you don't like what we're saying.

And incidentally - bear in mind that an awful lot of posters here have had it done to them, the way he's doing it to you.

So they have the benefit of hindsight and experience.

So like it or not - we're in this with you for the distance.

I mean would you really appreciate us cutting you off and going no contact with you?

 

You won't do it to him - don't ask us to do it to you.

[mimiminx]

Absolutely no way does it end here, mimi.

You can't just turn us off because you don't like what we're saying.

And incidentally - bear in mind that an awful lot of posters here have had it done to them, the way he's doing it to you.

So they have the benefit of hindsight and experience.

So like it or not - we're in this with you for the distance.

I mean would you really appreciate us cutting you off and going no contact with you?

 

You won't do it to him - don't ask us to do it to you.

 

I know. Things have just taken a different turn now is all. I don't like to hear the naysayers... I appreciate all the input but I am not everyone else's experiences. Each situation is different. Love is not black and white. One person's advice or previous experience or bitterness certainly does not translate into all situations. Thanks Tara, for sticking with this for the distance.

Anyway, I do have a significant update: we spoke again tonight and he said these things to me, more or less verbatim:

 

I am so sorry.

I was wrong.

I was stubborn and proud.

I want to make this work.

I love you very much.

I don't ever want to lose you.

I will do everything I can to make this up to you.

I am happiest with you in my life.

I admit I am at fault for why we broke up.

I want you in my future.

Let's try again.

 

I've got 2 weeks. A lot has transpired this past week.. and I'm still not jumping in head first to this. I'm REALLY incredibly happy that he told me all these things tonight. He is definitely being sincere. He finally swallowed his pride.

Edited October 9, 2009 by mimiminx

[westrock]

These recent developments are very positive.

 

Mimi has had the benefit of a lot of posters here and I trust that she will make the right decisions that are right for her. She knows the situation better than anyone here. Although it would be nice if he hopped on a plane and came down to see her, Mimi has to assess the circumstances as she sees them and make decisions based on those circumstances. She has stated her flight is in 2 weeks. I accept her decision and I trust she will handle herself appropriately and that she will be able to assess the situation when she gets there. If there is going to be a reconciliaton, they need to see each other face to face to discuss the issues. It doesn't really matter where that discussion takes place, as long as it happens.

 

Try this, mimi. Absolutely REFUSE to have sex with him until you have worked out the issues and are back to being a couple again. That is the one true POWER you have over him. It's obvious he wants it -- but you need to make sure his desire for sex with you is not his MAIN reason for asking you to come up there.

I agree with Caliguy. I think a little romance is fine. How far she takes the intimacy is something she has to decide based on her assessment of how things go in terms of resolving the relationship issues and she will have to decide for herself what is best for her and what she feels comfortable with.

 

I give Mimi credit for facing this head on rather than going NC and waiting for him to show up on her doorstep.

[northstar1]

I know. Things have just taken a different turn now is all. I don't like to hear the naysayers... I appreciate all the input but I am not everyone else's experiences. Each situation is different. Love is not black and white. One person's advice or previous experience or bitterness certainly does not translate into all situations. Thanks Tara, for sticking with this for the distance.

Anyway, I do have a significant update: we spoke again tonight and he said these things to me, more or less verbatim:

 

I am so sorry.

I was wrong.

I was stubborn and proud.

I want to make this work.

I love you very much.

I don't ever want to lose you.

I will do everything I can to make this up to you.

I am happiest with you in my life.

I admit I am at fault for why we broke up.

I want you in my future.

Let's try again.

 

I've got 2 weeks. A lot has transpired this past week.. and I'm still not jumping in head first to this. I'm REALLY incredibly happy that he told me all these things tonight. He is definitely being sincere. He finally swallowed his pride.

 

Well, then I guess the best thing would really be for the rest of us to be dead wrong then.

 

I guess, being a guy, I just can't get past the one thing. If I had left a girl I truly loved and then realized it was a mistake and that I was at risk of losing her forever, I would have jumped on the first plane/train/bus back to her and kicked down her door and show her I was serious. Nothing else would matter, the cost, the inconveinence, the pride. Nothing.

 

If I can suggest something it would be to cease communication with him until you get there. Give yourself two weeks to digest things without him dropping these emotional lines and drawing you closer. See how he acts when you get there and then decide how to proceed.

 

There is no need to talk daily to him. He knows you are coming to see him.

[CaliGuy]

I know. Things have just taken a different turn now is all. I don't like to hear the naysayers...I appreciate all the input but I am not everyone else's experiences. Each situation is different. Love is not black and white. One person's advice or previous experience or bitterness certainly does not translate into all situations.

 

Nobody does. The funny thing about those who make this statement is they're usually back here weeks/months later saying "I should have listened to you"... None of us are wishing you bad luck or hoping for you to fail. On the contrary, we're trying to put you in the right frame of mind so that you see the TRUE him and aren't blinded by love/lust.

 

And I really don't see any bitter advice here. I see people who have learned hard lessons and who are spending an aweful lot of time trying to help you see things more clearly.

 

Thanks Tara, for sticking with this for the distance.

Anyway, I do have a significant update: we spoke again tonight and he said these things to me, more or less verbatim:

 

I am so sorry.

I was wrong.

I was stubborn and proud.

I want to make this work.

I love you very much.

I don't ever want to lose you.

I will do everything I can to make this up to you.

I am happiest with you in my life.

I admit I am at fault for why we broke up.

I want you in my future.

Let's try again.

 

I've got 2 weeks. A lot has transpired this past week.. and I'm still not jumping in head first to this. I'm REALLY incredibly happy that he told me all these things tonight. He is definitely being sincere. He finally swallowed his pride.

 

Only time will tell that. Listen, nobody wants you to fail. Everyone is ROOTING for you to succeed, whether it's with him or not. But the fact is his behavior is very reminsicent experiences others have had.

 

So what you've been offered is the advice/experience other people have had in similar situations. I think what you really want is validation. I mean, it sounds like that is the only thing you want to hear -- that you're doing the right thing. That others who say "This isn't the best move for you" are simply bitter/angry people and that YOUR situation is completely different from the thousands of other similar stories here on LS.

 

Well for your sake, I hope that is the case. All I can tell is what I see face value. And if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

 

I am really GLAD that he has admitted these things. Let's see if his actions back his words. For your sake, I hope they do. I won't get excited for you until I see both his words and actions match completely.

 

I agree with Caliguy. I think a little romance is fine. How far she takes the intimacy is something she has to decide based on her assessment of how things go in terms of resolving the relationship issues and she will have to decide for herself what is best for her and what she feels comfortable with.

 

We'll see. If she's truly interested in finding out what he really wants, holding off on sex is the best way. I bet if she does hold back he will pout and get angry.

 

I give Mimi credit for facing this head on rather than going NC and waiting for him to show up on her doorstep.

 

Honestly, going NC and waiting for him to show up at her doorstep would have been the ABSOLUTE BEST THING for her to do.

 

Well, then I guess the best thing would really be for the rest of us to be dead wrong then.

 

I guess, being a guy, I just can't get past the one thing. If I had left a girl I truly loved and then realized it was a mistake and that I was at risk of losing her forever, I would have jumped on the first plane/train/bus back to her and kicked down her door and show her I was serious. Nothing else would matter, the cost, the inconveinence, the pride. Nothing.

 

Absolutely 100% dead on, Northstar1. This is what I would have done had I realized I made a terrible mistake. I would not make her fly out to meet me so we could have our "privacy" time. Getting sex wouldn't even be on my mind. Repairing the relationship would and all things damned, I'd be at her front door, literally beating it down to see her.

 

There is no need to talk daily to him. He knows you are coming to see him.

 

Yup. He knows he doesn't really have to work hard at anything. He can just say a few words, wave the magic wand and things will be right back to normal.

 

I dunno. I wouldn't want to be in a relationship where I would have to wonder "When are they leaving me again?!" This is why I think second chances are crazy. You should never need a second chance with someone. They shouldn't blow the first chance.

 

You don't walk away from someone you truly love and value. Never. Ever.

 

Best of luck, mimi. I'll bow out for now because you are well aware of how I feel. Pretty much everyone here has said the same thing. If that doesn't effect you deeply as to how you should be handling this situation, there is nothing ANYONE can do to shake sense in to you.

 

This is something you need to do and either succeed or fail on your own. And nobody wants you to fail, regardless of what you think.

[harmfulsweetz]

You aren't everyone else's experiences no, but (there's always a but) I said the same thing when I got jerked around. I said "it's different for us, he's different, I'm different. It's not going to be like that." Yep, I was made to eat my words.

 

It's your lookout, people here just want you to be prepared for how badly this could go, prepared as you say you are, I don't think you are at all. Of course, we only know certain sides of the story, the parts in which you post, so we can make our judgement and advice based on that. In 2 months, he's messed you about. It could work out, we could all be wrong, just be very aware you could fall flat on your face.

 

It's your choice, and I hope you come out of it happy either way.