Over or not over?

[westrock]

"Communication is the glue that holds everything together. Very often people end relationships due to unhealthy communication skills. I truly believe we have had a communication problem. You felt that I was getting in your "space", making you feel backed into a corner. What did you mean when you said that I wasn't respecting your space? Did you feel that I was smothering you? What did you need instead that I wasn't giving you?

On my end, when you withdrew, it made me feel like you were shutting me out and keeping your thoughts and feelings from me, even if you weren't intending to. This made me want to get through your "wall" so I could be reassured and understand what you wanted and where you were coming from. Maybe you were just so fed up that the only thing you could think of to do was move away and break up with me. Although you may feel that was a solution, it only lessens the communication skills we were lacking to make a healthy relationship with healthy communication. You contacting me now, after the fact, has made me very confused because you left, from what I understand, because I wasn't respecting your space. If space is what you wanted you are going against what you were so upset about by persistently contacting me. Now, we are stuck in these roles of avoidance and pursuit and I feel it has been an undercurrent throughout our relationship, even now. Avoidance will not solve the problem, neither is being disrespectful of one's "space". The areas in which we BOTH were lacking. This is not healthy communication and I have finally seen the light and completely understand now why you would say that it was "unhealthy". I am completely aware now that this was a HUGE problem that I would like to address.

I would like to hear what you think about this. If you see this as accurate and would like also to address it to save our relationship, please let me know."

This is the best "dear ex" letter I have ever read on LoveShack. It is straight to the point, honest, and open. This should be a template for anyone who wants to contact their ex. Well written.

 

Mimi, just from your last 2 posts I can already sense a total transformation in you. For the first time since you started this thread you seem to be much calmer and confident. Don't you feel much better now? That is what you b/f wants to see!

 

Now that you've sent your email, I want to give you some follow up suggestions. In my previous post I said to you that you are in the process of shifting from distancer to pursuer. You need to acknowledge this and remain calm and keep your expectations modest otherwise you are going to smother him again. Do whatever you have to do to stay calm. Show your email to your therapist and ask for some guidance on what you can do on your part.

 

Here's what NOT to expect: your b/f to read your email and suddenly realise the error of his ways and he rushes to hop on a plane, fly down to meet you with flowers in hand, and as he's running down the airport terminal he grabs you and sweeps you off your feet twirling you around, saying "I love you, I was a fool", while everyone in the airport errupts in a cheer with tears flowing, all the while with dramatic violin music playing. That's Hollywood.

 

What's a more realistic scenario? He'll read your email and think "hmmmm, something's up. This isn't the Mimi I know." Then he'll put it aside, and talk to his buddies. They'll try to disuade him. Then he'll let it sit for a while until he can clear his head to figure out what he should do. In other words he's going to shift back to distancer for a while until he can absorb what you wrote. That's okay. He's going to expect you to go into pursuer mode now and smother him, but to his surprise you won't be doing that. He's not used to seeing this from you, so he needs some time. It took you 10 pages of posts and more than a month to get to this stage, so in total fairness, you should be prepard to give him a month to figure this out. I know that may sound nerve wracking to you, but if you desire to marry him for the next 50 years, a month is nothing. When he is ready, he will contact you. Until then, stay calm and let him digest what you wrote.

 

When he finally contacts you, be receptive and encouraging. Initially, he may take some time to open up to you. You've said what you had to say in your email, so now it's his turn. Remember to LISTEN to what he has to say. He's probably going to question you to find out if you are serious what you wrote. He's probably going to tell you how you smothered him. Encourage him to tell you everything. Those are not easy things to hear and your first temptation will be to fight back to defend yourself and tell him it's all his fault. He may be at fault, but he has to figure that out himself. Instead, let him say what he has to say, good, bad, ugly, whatever he wants, and even if you have to say, "ok I hear you, I didn't realise that's how you felt. Let me digest this and let's talk again tomorrow", then that's okay. That's communication.

 

I hope things work out for you, and if they don't then at least you know you won't have any regrets and you've done everything you can and you can walk away with your head high.

 

If you only remember one thing from all of this... 2 ears, 1 mouth.

[northstar1]

Jeebus.............send the damn email already!! You'll both be old and senile at this rate.

[ecm]

Go with westrock's advice, and tell him, clearly, unemotionally and succinctly that you stronly believe and suspect you have a communication problem.

Give him an inkling of what you mean

 

Soooooo, I'm now to this whole thing & hope I'm overstepping my bounds by contuining to give my opinion about it. I'd rather have people think I'm a jerk than not share information that I feel could help you.

 

I just don't think it sounds "clear, unemotional and succnict". That email is too wordy.

 

I guess it depends on his frame of mind. If I were annoyed, I'd look at the length of that email that and think "ugh" before I even read it. If he is on the fence of what he needs to do, he could take that as another way you're not giving him his space. If he's crazy in love and ready to come back, it STILL might get on his nerves.

 

It doesn't sound like you speaking naturally. It sounds like a research paper in comparison to the tone of your previous posts. I don't know you, so I might be way off. If so, I apologize.

 

I'm interested in this sitatution because it is similar to mine. I don't know him, and I don't know you. I just think you could say what you need to say without all of the extra analysis. I DO THE SAME THING, so I KNOW!

 

Guys are different.

 

I think you should just make these points and send it.

 

#1) we have a communication problem

#2) you're "flight"...I'm "fight"

#3) what you are doing to me is not ok

#4) I need to worry about myself if you are going to play games with me

 

and #5) (optional) go f*ck yourself until you can grow a set of b*alls.

 

ok, so maybe 5 was just for me to amuse myslef, but it might work.

[mimiminx]

Hello everyone,

Thank you again Westrock..I really appreciate what you said about the best Dear Ex letter you have ever seen on LoveShack! That's quite a compliment... I don't think I would have done it if it weren't for you so you should take some credit for it! I DO feel calmer and more confident than a month ago, slowly but surely. And Northstar- time is on my side.

I am happy with the email I sent. It was wordy, yes and not the way I usually write, but maybe I have changed a little! I think I just am starting to see things more clearly now... sometimes it takes distance to see things from a better perspective. Also talking with my therapist has really helped me see things outside of the emotion in an objective view.

He had contacted me last night and I responded, telling him I was sending him an email. He said that he looked at it but wanted to read it again tomorrow when he could give it his full attention and respond to me. He told me on the phone, "I just want to tell you that I love you very much and I really miss you". He said the way I feel about you has nothing to do with why we're broken up. This is why I'm pretty darn sure that the "issue" of concern here is the real cause.

He actually called me twice last night... and something interesting happened... he was calling me honey and flirting with me again..I wasn't reciprocating but of course I was flattered by it... I won't go into the details but it was pretty intense. I was surprised actually. Anyway,.. maybe the wheels are starting to turn here.

I know that the "Hollywood" scenario isn't likely.. would be nice, right? One can fantasize...but Westrock, you are absolutely correct. It may take some time. In the meantime though, I am not going to sit around and wait for him. Because I do deserve more than this. Maybe I will start going out and meeting new people, getting out of my funk. I know it may take some time for him to digest it, think about it, mull it over, etc. If he replies immediately, "well, yeah but I don't know..." I am well prepared to send my original email of "I need some distance" (read: leave me alone) I have no problem doing that really and following through with that. In fact, I would feel better about sending that after what I did. I can walk away from this knowing in my heart that I did everything I could and I feel good about that. If that's just not good enough for him, then I'm better off without him.

I have absolutely no doubt that he and I are crazy about eachother, we really like eachother, we love eachother. We harbor no bitter feelings towards each other at all. But, that isn't always enough to keep things going (obviously). It takes much more than just love, respect, trust, compatibility, and great sex to keep our relationship intact. We had all of those things, those were solid. But we were lacking in a very important part (healthy communication).. and honestly, I didn't realize the importance and effect of it until we broke up.

Bottom line is: I am not waiting around. I am going to keep moving forward now. I know what I want and what I deserve. I'm letting him go, I'm leaving him some food for thought, I am going to keep my distance (NC). If someday he wakes up and smells the coffee, then it will be a different story and maybe we can see where that goes. If not, I'm still ok.

I feel much better.

[northstar1]

Good for you. Dont' wait around.

 

I know you both love each other.

 

However, you can't just decide you need a 'time out' in life and still expect things to resume when you want to.

By casting you aside and going on his self exile, he also invited the risk upon himself that you would move on from him.

 

Honestly.............at this point, unless he is willing to step up and come to the table 100%, anything less is not something you should accept.

 

Good luck to you.

[mimiminx]

Spent the evening with some friends, mutual friends of ours. Made me feel really empty.. our friends were talking about him a little bit and we were looking at pictures of Hawaii which made me think about when R and I were there together. We were talking about the boat he used to have and how when I met him he had just bought his sailboat...it brought back so many happy memories I wish he was there. I walked home by myself when he used to be the one walking with me. He used to be there on that patio with me. I had some wine and I'm kind of drunk and emotional. He's gone....

I don't care if I sound like a rambling idiot... earlier I was so much stronger but it just hit me that he's really not here and he's probably not coming back. For all I know he's chatting it up and cosying up with some other girl right now. Wouldn't be surprised if he was, and maybe more than that. Tonight that's all I can think about. I can't believe it! Every time I don't hear from him I think that's what he might be doing. Last night, he was talking to me, telling me how much he loves me and that I'm so beautiful and that he misses me. But he's not here! I have never been more sad in my whole life. I feel like my heart has been ripped out.

Last night, we talked... he called me twice and was more than flirting with me, much more than flirting with me. This is personal, but he asked me if I was still taking the pill and I said no. He asked when I had stopped. He basically was wanting to know if I was sleeping with anyone else. How could he possibly even think I could be?!!! Why would he ask me that? Why does he care?! He's gone!

I just logged on to FB and saw that he was just on there.. ok. It doesn't matter. He's not here. I am so incredibly lonely and heartbroken I can't stop crying....

My true love is gone....the man who I shared so many happy memories with, beautiful memories I'll never forget. He's not here and I don't know if I will ever have that with him again..

The friend that I was with tonight is one of his best friends.. he happens to be going up to Oregon again for work and will see him there this week. The friend asked me if I had talked to him and I told him that he has been contacting me pretty much daily for about 3 weeks now but I don't always respond. He asked what he says, and I was just general and said that it's been very confusing, I don't know what he wants. I told our friend when he goes up there to pack him in his suitcase and bring him back home

Last night he was talking to me with so much attention, so much love and was even making sexual comments to me, he said that we've always had such amazing sex, I'm the best, he thinks about me all the time, how it's rare to have such a strong sexual bond.. if he ever finds me in bed again, he wants to do such and such... he said the sound of my voice always makes him excited, if he was next to me, he would want to do all these things....(I know, this is really personal.. )

I know I shouldn't be talking to him like this.. I was weak. I was the one saying that this was inappropriate. But it made me feel good to hear. But in the end, I was alone. And I'm still alone and I think I will be for a very long time. I can't even imagine being with anyone else! Maybe I should just get out there and go on a date just for the hell of it. There's a guy who teaches at my yoga studio that has been flirting with me, I don't flirt back but he's attractive and he always looks at me and talks to me. I can tell he's interested.. here is the point where I am craving the physical male attention.. I'm not going on a rebound, that's for sure. I'd rather be alone than with someone else.

I sent that communication email last night, and he hasn't responded. He told me that he looked at it but he wanted to re-read it today and give it his full undivided attention. Maybe I should just disappear off the face of the planet and ignore everything he sends my way, send him my original email and just disappear from his life. I am so lonely....

All I want is for him to be back here in my life, in our relationship, walking home with me, making love to me, waking up together, laughing, talking, and living together again. Up until about a week before we left, he would take me on romantic dates, we would pack a picnic and head to the beach at night with a bottle of wine, bread and cheese and just talk for hours. A couple days before he left he took me out for some drinks and we had the best conversation, it was like we fell in love all over again, we went and listened to music and he couldn't stop touching me and kissing me the entire night. He will always be the love of my life and I feel such a void without him. I am hopeless. I think if I was eventually with someone else, I would still carry a torch for him. I would look back and say that man was the love of my life and I lost him. I can close my eyes and still picture him so clearly, his clothes, his arms, his eyes, his smile. I've been through heartbreak before and it was nothing even close to this. I was with someone for over 4 years before, and I got over it in a couple weeks. This is a completely different story. I wanted to marry him and have children with him. WE wanted that.. WE talked about our future as a couple all the time. We started a tradition the first Christmas we were together: we bought each other ornaments, and the next year the same, and he had said imagine the Christmas tree we will have, someday it will be full of ornaments from all the years we will be together.

GONE. That beautiful picture is GONE. The children we were planning to have will probably never be..

I can vent here, writing is my therapy.. I won't tell him these things of course. The hardest part is, I know he really loves me, is in love with me, wants me, misses me. But he's choosing to be without me. I never really screwed up, I am a very loving person and I made him very happy. I guess just not happy enough.. he left me.

I will see him again, soon... in the next few months, maybe sooner, when he comes back to San Diego. I try to imagine what it will be like when we see each other again.. it'll be over the holidays at the latest. We have a lot of mutual friends. I think about us seeing eachother, and maybe him feeling differently, or me feeling differently, or both of us feeling differently, or maybe we will come back together, I don't know. I am pretty sure that when I see him again I will be just as in love as I am now.

I wish I could hate him, I wish I could just start to move on. I wish I didn't love him so much so this would be easier.

Never saw this coming. Never thought he'd leave me, never. He always made me feel safe and protected. Always. Our love grew stronger every time we were apart before, our love grew mutually with every day, week, and year. Our love continually grew stronger. Doesn't that account for anything?!! Did he just get fed up and break up with me?! He still loves me, he TELLS me so, and often. He's still in love with me too. He has no ill feelings towards me and vice versa. What is keeping us apart?! If he really loves me, he will come back to me. If he doesn't, he won't. That's my greatest fear.

Although I know I deserve more than he's giving me now, I still love him, my love still grows for him.. it has never lessened.

I am a sorry, sad, lonely, heartbroken fool tonight. Thanks for listening.

[seoa]

Oh Mimi... it hurts so much, doesn't it... There's a line in the "He's Scared, She's Scared" (aka "The People Who've Been Dumped By Commitmentphobes' Bible"), that says something like - most relationships end because things have been getting worse over time, with a CP they end when they're at their best, because that's when the fear really hits them - and it makes it the hardest to get over, because you *know* how good it was, and the ending seems so pointless...

 

Sweetie, he will keep you hanging on a string, because he *does* want you around, he just isn't choosing to deal with his fear right now, so he can't fully commit into the relationship with you, he just wants the parts of it that suit him...

 

I'm not sure jumping into bed with some other guy is a good solution - not if you want your man back (should he choose to try again) - but I think you were just ranting coz you're hurting, so you probably know that sober...

 

I'd be willing to bet that the reason you've sounded calmer the last couple of days (as Westrock noted) is that you thought this horrible nightmare was all over, and you were about to get him back... That might still happen, but it could take a few weeks...

 

How I got through my NC early days...? I told him not to contact me anymore, which he did, and then I made-believe that he was just away on business and wasn't able to call me *today*, but we'd probably spoken yesterday, and probably would tomorrow... Not in a crazy 'alternate reality' way, but just in the back of my mind when I thought about the phone... Kept me sane enough to focus on other stuff, like I always did when he wasn't available that day...

 

It worked about half the time, and the other half I cried for hours on end, and bored my friends with my pain... But he didn't see it... I kept myself rational around mutual friends, so they had nothing crazy to report back...

 

You need to get back to the fun-lovin' girl he fell in love with - not the heartbroken mess in a puddle on the floor...

 

And obviously, with this kind of heartbreak, there is no other place to start than in a puddle on the floor, so fake it, honey, fake it... until it becomes (sufficiently) real...

 

And THAT is what NC is for...

 

*hug*

[seoa]

Oh, and with my CP - I went NC, I wrote him a 'dear ex' letter like yours a couple of weeks in - he said 'thanks, I'll think about it'... I then managed to hit the "he has so many issues - not just CP - that I'm not sure I want him back" (which lasted about a week), and then he contacted me yesterday... just a short IM chat, nothing significant... (well, the content wasn't significant, but the timing, approach, etc - you know how you 'know' your guy - this was something he'd thought a lot about...!)

 

Might mean something, might mean nothing... I'm not sure he knows... but I'm playing a long-game here... He needs space to figure out what he wants (me!!!??), and how much he wants it (enough to fight his fear!!!!??), and I cannot hurry that process, but I can *hurt* the process by forcing him to decide before he's ready...

 

And meanwhile, I am barely crying over him at all... If he came back, I would believe that the universe is behaving in the way that it should - but meantime, I am having a great life - flirting a little, haven't accepted that drink with the interested guy *yet*, starting a new dance class this weekend, and best of all, I'm saving a fortune in tissues...

[ecm]

ya know, I just logged on to see if there was an update. Instead, I get teary eyed from the last two posts. geesh. thanks.

 

Mimi- I feel your pain. I am not a very patient person. It is so agonizing not knowing what the ending will be. Someone said it earlier (maybe my idol Tara), if you're going to be together forever..what is a month? If this is what it takes for him to realize what he had, you'll look back on it and be grateful. All of your previous relationships have probably made you realize why this one is special right? I think a break is what some people need to realize it.

 

It hurts. Every song makes me want to drive off a cliff. Every horoscope "fits" with our situation. So, let it happen. It's like "make up sex" but better. Imagine how great your relationship will be if he actually has the chance to miss you. AND IMAGINE how great it will be if you play it right and he knows he can never do this to you again because you mean business. Sometimes we have to be patient if we want the possibility of the outcome we desire...

[wondering_girl]

hi girls, i think i'm going through the same thing, me and my bf of 4 years have serious communication issues - he doesn't talk to me at all, about his feeling or what not, my post here is silent break up...

 

the pain HURTS soooooooo bad. i don't even know how to describe it, i wish i had a button to make it all go away, and like you guys said, give them space but it's like a nightmare... it's been a month since our issue, and 6 days til our last dinner convo that he barely said 3 words to me.. all i said was when he's ready to talk i'm here...... and no time frames, so i'm even scared of the day the he'll actually contact me to tell me what he wants.. but this is nightmare and i don't know how long it will last, for the past month there hasn't been one day when i didn't cry or didn't think about him....

 

mimi, last night i hung out with our mutual friends too just kinda chilled out and looked at her wedding pictures, i was even more depressed since we went to the wedding together and saw us.. she's talking about ooh there's your future husband in the pics.... while deep in my mind i didn't know if we're even together or not..... i know giving space is hard but that's what i'm trying to do now... hopefully he'll come back? i miss him, i know NC is supposed to heal right.... not expect them to come back, i hope i find my old me somewhere.....

 

it HURTS.

[westrock]

Spent the evening with some friends, mutual friends of ours. Made me feel really empty..

 

Hugs to you ((( Mimi )))

 

In my previous posts I said that you are shifting roles from distancer to pursuer. What triggers this shift is a feeling of abandonment (or rejection). When we feel abandoned, we want to pursue our partner so that they can relieve our feelings of abandonment. That emptiness you are feeling right now are intense feelings of abandonment.

 

I know you're hurting, but I am going to suggest to you something that may sound counter-intuitive: don't fight the feelings of abandonment. Instead I want you to get empowered by actually feeling the emptiness/abandonment, ALL OF IT -- this is not to punish you, but to motivate you to realise you can deal with your fear of abandonment on your own. That is actually the core issue as to why you were smothering your b/f. Up until now you have been relying on him to deal with your fear of abandonment when you should be dealing with it on your own. Once you understand that you'll see things in a whole new light.

 

If you don't deal with your abandonment issue, if the two of you get back together, you are going to rely on him too much to resolve your fear of abandonment and that will lead to you smothering him again.

 

Don't fight these feelings, instead welcome them. The universe is actually giving you a beautiful opportunity to finally face your fear of abandonment so that you can tranisiton from a catepillar to a beautiful butterfly who can fly on her own when it comes to fears of abandonment.

 

Your therapist can help you identify the source of your fear of abandonment, and give you some pointers on how to face and deal with your fear.

 

I sent that communication email last night, and he hasn't responded. He told me that he looked at it but he wanted to re-read it today and give it his full undivided attention.

 

Remember what I said above about how he's going to deal with this? Give him up to a month. In fact, you want him to think long and hard on this issue, not quick and superficial. While he's processing his thoughts, you need to deal with your issues.

 

GONE. That beautiful picture is GONE. The children we were planning to have will probably never be..

 

The beautiful picture you describe is not gone. It's just that it is bigger than you could ever imagine, and you were only looking at a small portion before. You're now in the process of stepping back to get a better view! When you get there watch what unfolds.

 

I can vent here, writing is my therapy..

 

Continue to vent here. Spill it all out. Write about your fear of abandonment. You're not alone, we're all here for you. Plus, eat some ice cream and get a pedicure if you want.

[mimiminx]

Westrock-

Thank you. I really appreciate what you said. You are right. Abandonment. It's my greatest fear and it has come true. I am feeling it and hard. I'm hoping he read the email and is processing it. I hope that's the case, I really do. I will take your advice about dealing with the abandonment on my own, it really is the core of everything... how did you know? I will do my best to deal with my abandonment on my own and not rely on him to reassure me, because that's where the problem has been. Wow, this was right on.

On the other hand, my mind goes wandering and thinks, well.. maybe he read it and thought nothing of it. Maybe he dismissed it, maybe he doesn't care. I didn't expect him to respond to it really. I will give it some time, no expectations.

A pedicure sounds great.. I have a busy day today with a fun night planned... Thank you again for the encouragement.

[mimiminx]

ok, here I am again. Westrock, you said give it time... what am I supposed to do when he contacts me then? (I mean in the meantime?) I'm torn here between NC and talking to him.. if HE contacts me I mean. He hasn't responded to my email. I just don't know what to do! Now that I've sent that to him, am I supposed to talk to him or disappear? (NC)

I can't continue talking to him if he's not going to commit to this relationship- again, I can't just be his friend. Same story. I don't want to drag this out, I don't want the emptiness. Next course of action? Respond to him, or ignore him? I know the "communication" is the issue here. So what does it say if I stop communication when that was the problem to begin with? I also want to protect my heart and try to move forward, not wait for him. For all I know, he read that email and dismissed it.

I was recalling some of the things he said when he left. He said "When you act like this (pushing/pursuit) it makes me not want to have a commitment to you!" Again, recently he said "You kept pushing, and I just stopped fighting". He wrote me a letter and he said "I need my space and I tried to have that with you, but that didn't work out". This was and is the ONE reason he gave me as to why he left. Nothing else. He's going through a tough time right now, feeling bad about himself not being able to give me what he wants to give me, depressed, pressured, etc. I'm not making excuses for him, but I have to take the big picture into consideration. When he said he wasn't happy, I realize now it was because I was pushing him too much. He has trouble communicating himself and is very reserved. When he didn't want to talk about it, I kept at it. I kept at it too much. I made a huge mistake by doing that. He told me recently that two people can love eachother very much, but their relationship isn't good (meaning one of the pillars of a relationship isn't steady, like.. communication!) That is where we went wrong. Obviously he already knows this, now I can see it. It took him leaving me for me to see it.

Do people leave a relationship, hoping that things will change, they love the other person a great deal, still have the same feelings.. do they leave HOPING that this would be the only way for the other person to change? Does that make sense? Like, he didn't know what else to do and he thought that if he did this things might change?! Not that I am completely at fault here, but I do see what I was doing wrong. I admit to that.

Anyway, from here... ignore, or communicate?

[wondering_girl]

hi mimi, i feel your pain... i'm not very patient with the end result as well, just like you, i've already said my peace with my bf of 4 years, but i just would like to know what does he want from me? does he want me back? or is he saying good bye for good?

 

i guess what we can do now is just wait.. i know it's hard, especially on the wkends, didn't you guys spend the most time together then? it sucks, we think about them, miss them everything, however do they miss us like you said? it hurts bad, but after i said my peace, it's been 6 days of NC and haven't heard from him.. i want to contact him, text him, and all of these but i'm hoping that he'll come back on his own, then i'll know he still wants to be with me... i'm hoping he'll reply to your e-mail soon..

 

i hope everything works out for you.. *hugs*

[westrock]

Westrock, you said give it time... what am I supposed to do when he contacts me then? (I mean in the meantime?) I'm torn here between NC and talking to him.. if HE contacts me I mean. He hasn't responded to my email. I just don't know what to do! Now that I've sent that to him, am I supposed to talk to him or disappear? (NC)

 

If he contacts you then you definitely communicate with him. Don't disappear or avoid him. When I said give it time, I was referring to give him time to contact you. He may do that in 1 day, 3 days, a week, or up to a month. Be patient, but when he eventually decides he wants to talk then definitely talk with him and welcome the communication.

 

I can't continue talking to him if he's not going to commit to this relationship- again, I can't just be his friend. Same story. I don't want to drag this out, I don't want the emptiness.

 

You are right. You can't continue talking for the sake of just talking. As I said before, listen to what he has to say, good, bad, ugly without getting defensive. But, focus the discussion towards the issues of your email.

 

You said that he has trouble communicating himself and is very reserved. This means that when he contacts you, you may have to take the lead and start the discussion by talking about your abandonment issues. Be friendly, let him flirt a little, but tell him you would like to focus your discussion for now on the issues mentioned in your email to him.

 

As long as he is willing to discuss the issues, then continue taking his calls. However, don't push the issue as soon as he calls you the first time. Let him talk a bit, let him flirt a bit so he gets comfortable. But, don't let it go past 2 calls without you indicating to him that you want to discuss the issues in your email. When you try to steer the discussion towards the issues, if he tries to avoid the topic, tell him that you are open to continue talking to him, but only if it is about the issues raised in your email. If he still doesn't want to talk about the issues, tell him that's his choice and you have other things to do, tell him he can definitely call you again when he is ready to talk about the issues - and end the call. This keeps keeps the lines of communication open while at the same time setting up a boundary that allows the issues to be kept front and center. Once he understands that the only way he can get to talk with you is if he talks about the issues, he'll realise he can no longer avoid the issue.

 

He will open up when he knows from you the following: you are taking responsibility for your part, you are able to talk about the issues in a calm unemotional manner, and you are open to continue talking to him. However, if he tries to avoid the issue, he then needs to know that you will continue talking to him, BUT only if you talk about the issues.

 

Also, don't be afraid to tell him about your abondonment issues. This shows maturity and that you are taking responsibility for your role. Once he sees that, he will realise how much he misses you.

 

He said "When you act like this (pushing/pursuit) it makes me not want to have a commitment to you!" Again, recently he said "You kept pushing, and I just stopped fighting". He wrote me a letter and he said "I need my space and I tried to have that with you, but that didn't work out". This was and is the ONE reason he gave me as to why he left. Nothing else.

 

You see he has been trying to communicate his concerns to you for a while, but you didn't understand what he was saying. The good news is that you have identified it and the underlying abandonment issue. You are more empowered now than ever before on what went wrong and why.

 

The key to talking to him about these issues is to respect what he has to say and to not get emotional or defensive. As soon as you get emotional, he'll get scared and interpret as you pursuing. By allowing him to say whatever he wants without getting upset, you will be able to say whatever you want.

 

He's going through a tough time right now, feeling bad about himself not being able to give me what he wants to give me, depressed, pressured, etc. I'm not making excuses for him, but I have to take the big picture into consideration. When he said he wasn't happy, I realize now it was because I was pushing him too much. He has trouble communicating himself and is very reserved. When he didn't want to talk about it, I kept at it. I kept at it too much.

 

He has been conflicted. He really wants to give you want you want, but he found that when he tried to give you the attention you wanted, you went overboard because of your abandonment issues and he got suffocated. He doesn't know how to give you what you want and at the same time not get suffocated. By you addressing your abandonment issues, he will find that you won't be pushing him too much and he will then want to become closer to you.

 

Do people leave a relationship, hoping that things will change, they love the other person a great deal, still have the same feelings.. do they leave HOPING that this would be the only way for the other person to change? Does that make sense? Like, he didn't know what else to do and he thought that if he did this things might change?!

 

I think it actually doesn't matter why he left, what's more important now is whether the two of you able to get things back on track now that you have a better understanding of what happened and why and that you have a bit of a roadmap on how to move forward. He clearly is still interested and loves you based on your most recent conversation.

 

I know it may sound like I'm making it out as this is all your fault, but I'm not. He is equally responsible for the situation the two of you are in. Just as abandonment is your key issue, his key issue is that he easily gets suffocated and doesn't know how to handle it. I haven't brought up much about his suffocation issue, primarily because that is his issue to solve, but as you address your end of things, he will automatically start to resolve his issues.

[mimiminx]

Hello again,

Thank you Westrock. You are so wise...I cannot thank you enough. Funny how I didn't see the light until you told me all this. Truly. I truly hope that this really is the answer. For so long, I couldn't put the pieces together, and now I understand. It makes sense now.

I will take your advice. He did contact me today, but in email. It was nothing to do with mine but about the phone bill we share. Nothing personal in there, he didn't even sign his name.

Anyway, I will definitely not ignore his attempts to contact me.. like you said, I agree with 2 times contact to bring it up. I will have to be the one to steer it towards that, I already know it. That is, if he does actually want to talk to me. I think this is very good advice, if he still doesn't want to talk about it, I will tell him exactly that: that it is his choice and that I am open to continue talking to him but only if it is about the issues I raised in my email. That is perfect. I guess I should do some research about abandonment issues.. it's always been my greatest fear actually. I will communicate that with him if and when we do talk about it.

Yes, he has been trying to communicate this with me for awhile, I just didn't listen. In fact one of the times we spoke on the phone recently, he said that I just don't listen to him. Seriously, it took us breaking up for me to see this as a problem. Wow, I wish I was more mature while we were together.

It would be a dream come true if he were able to talk to me about how he feels, or felt so I could listen and put my emotions aside. I would love it if that happened. If and when it does, I will absolutely listen.

You sound so sure about this, almost like you can predict how things will go even if you don't know me or us. I hope you are right. I really hope you are right.

What scares me the most is that he may be "moving on" and I'm here learning a supreme lesson in psychology, thinking this may all just pan out and we will come back together. But in reality, maybe he really isn't caring anymore and has no clue. He is in another STATE. If I go through all this effort and time, and he's so far out of the picture, not even caring anymore, maybe even interested in someone else, what's the point? I know, it will help me as an individual. Yes, he is still interested in me and loves me, but not enough to make me happy! The distance is killing me. Tonight I had a passing thought when I saw an airplane go overhead that I would pack my bags and fly up there to surprise him. I know, bad idea. I just can't take this emptiness and fear anymore. Sometimes it's all I think about, is him being with someone else. I can't even IMAGINE being with anyone else, and it's been what, over 6 weeks now since he left. Shouldn't I feel ready to even START to move on? Is there a time frame for people to reconcile? Don't they say that after a certain time the chances are almost nil? What if he is with someone else? I never would want to know. Ever. I honestly don't think he would be in such frequent contact with me if he was, who knows, maybe. Just another legitimate fear.

I went out to dinner and a concert tonight with family, and as soon as I walked in the door to my apartment I burst out in tears. Seeing couples together, the men with their arms around their women, happy. That was us 6 weeks ago. We were at a restaurant on San Diego Bay where he and I used to spend so much time sailing on his boat. Every sailboat that passed made me want to cry. Everywhere I look I am reminded of him. I am so incredibly lonely, it is NOT getting any better. Especially the weekends are hard, particularly Saturday and Sunday nights, I don't know why. We used to spend pretty much all our time together anyway, but thinking he's probably out or socializing, meeting other women.

Should I really waste my time on all this, thinking he's in the same boat as me? He might just be too far gone to even CARE anymore. For all I know, he's interested in someone else by now. Come on, the dumper, 6 weeks into it... probably has crossed his mind to sleep with someone. He can't get it from me, so what is he doing up there, being a monk and practicing abstinence? That's what I'm doing but I can't expect him to be doing the same. I don't want a rude awakening when I hear from him "Oh, I'm over you now, I'm dating someone." Or I just don't hear from him and the communication drops. If he really loved me, he wouldn't do that, right?

After the highly sexy phone conversation he was having with me two days ago, I don't hear from him besides a neutral email tonight about our phone plan?! You would think that he would be a little more likely to call or be more friendly to the girl he claims to love and who he was telling two days ago how he wanted to do these things with. This is also very personal, but he was going on and on the other night about how great our sex has always been, and how rare it is to find such a strong sexual bond, I always get him excited, the sound of my voice does something to him,even over the phone. He said if I ever find you in bed again, I want to do this and this and this. !!!! It was getting pretty intense. I was trying my best to play it cool but I admit I was weak in letting him talk to me like that. He also said, "M, I just want you to know that I love you very much and I miss you. I think about you all the time, the other day I was thinking about (above statement about being with me again)"

Do exes do this?! Is this normal behavior, what he's doing? Maybe he just hasn't found anyone else yet and he is using me to fulfill his "needs", even though I'm not there. Seriously, how much longer can this go on?! He is very much flirting with me, when we have talked recently, he talks to me as if I am still his girlfriend in a way, by calling me honey, saying my name alot, eager to give me advice (unsolicited), his tone very friendly and open.

Everyone I've told that he contacts me so often, their immediate response is "really?! hmmm..."

I just don't want to be played for a fool. I don't know what he's thinking.. obviously he's thinking alot about me even if he doesn't contact me. But maybe I'm not the only one he's interested in. Once he gets enough time and distance, why wouldn't he move on to someone else? He'd just leave me in the dust. After all my attempts, all I have been going through, all this... for nothing. I keep telling myself that he's not coming back, just so I am not disappointed. Sure he loves me so much, does he love me enough to get back here? No, not as of now, maybe not ever. I want to think of the worst case scenario so I am not crushed. Why should I devote all my energy and thoughts to him when he may very well not be devoting all his energy and thoughts to me? What if he just doesn't love me in the same way I love him? He's proved his love many times for me, but that was in the past, not now. All it is now are words, no actions.

Thank you again so much for your excellent advice. You seem very hopeful, that's nice to hear. Again, I hope you're right. I really do. I hope I get to have a success story, but then again, sadly, I just can't bank on it. The pain is worse lately, I don't know why. I think I felt empowered by ignoring his attempts to contact me for about a week, but the night before I ended up crying and felt like we were denying our feelings for eachother so I called him.

Does it say much at all that we still love eachother? That we are still in love with eachother? That we don't hate eachother, our feelings are growing, or at least just as strong as before? I think that should count for something. I still have hope, I do. I just don't want my hope to be completely obliterated and crushed. I don't love him any less than the last day I saw him.

There's a quote I really love, that has been giving me a lot of strength this whole time: "Absence is to love as wind is to fire; it extinguishes the small and kindles the great". I believe that. What does it say that every time we've been apart, our love has grown stronger? One of the last things he said to me before he left I will never forget: "Every time we've been separated, our love has grown stronger" Was that a foreshadow?

In the meantime, I will live my life, try to make it through the day without crying, being anxious, sad, or paranoid that he is getting too close with another woman. I will do my best. I will embrace the pain and deal with it on my own, I'm all I've really got essentially. I miss him more than anything. I wake up thinking about him, I go to sleep thinking about him. I sit in class and write unsent letters to him. I look at a sailboat and think of him, and I see them a lot around here. He is always on my mind. Always.

Am I an idiot for thinking this could work out? I don't want to be an idiot. In the meantime that he might be thinking about what I wrote, who knows how long it will be till he actually does want to talk about it, if at all. What am I supposed to do? If someone asks me on a date, should I go? Should I at least attempt to move on just in case this doesn't work out? I'm not ready or interested really, but maybe I should be open to the idea. I just couldn't do that to another guy, my heart would completely be with the one I love. It would be fake and I don't think I could do it. I guess I should just focus on myself and getting myself happy, learning from this experience, keeping my emotions in check. I want this all to be over.. I am the most impatient person in the world. Another month seems like eternity to bear this weight if that's what happens.

I'm scared. I am really scared he's just gone forever.

[WSeeker]

@mimiminx

 

(i'm sorry if i write something wrong cause english is not my mother tongue)

I'm very sorry you feel that way. It pains me to see a beautiful young lady suffering that way. I,ve been reading through your posts and i see you have a lot on your mind. But as for your ex i must say, he still has some feelings for you or he wouldn't have done all those things(contacting you and all) so dont think about that anymore. And i can assure you that he is thinking about you as much as you are thinking about him. I promise you that. And mutual feelings and love are still there its just that something has gotten in the way of it.

 

You should go NC for a while and give yourselves a break, from your relationship, you both need. Don't worry, feelings of years of relationship dont go away that easily so he wont forget about you. You should focus on yourself heal yourself as much as you can. Then you can decide if you want to stay friends or erase him from your life.

 

But if you want him back, this may sound crazy, you need to let him go. Seriously. If your really truly love him you have to let him go. And you mustnt wait for him. Because he has to go back to you and only he can decide when to do it. You may think that everything is over but i think nothing is over you just have to be yourself and wait some time untill he clear hes thoughts. Im from Serbia(its a small country in Europe and totally insignificant) and here we have a saying which goes in Serbian:

 

Strpljiv, spashen.

 

It literally means: The one who is patient, gets rescued

 

So plz give NC some time and wait to see whats gonna happen with him, and then youll now what to do.

 

But sometimes you have to be blunt. Chances are you're not getting him back. But life is a mystery and no one can tell you whats going to happen in the future. But you must not let that hope of him returning destroy your life. Dont wait for him. I'm not saying that you have to jump in a rebound only that you mustnt wait for him. So u mustnt wait for him even if you want to get him back. Sounds crazy but believe me its true.

 

Everything will work out in the end you'll see. In some time you'll start feeling better with or without him.

[northstar1]

Miniminx

 

I'm sorry you are still feeling so down about this.

 

I guess I'm going to take a different path here than most with my suggestion. Ofcourse, you can choose to ignore it, but best to at least give you different viewpoints and some tough love.

 

You sent him a pretty concise email a few days ago and he said that he needed time to read it clearly and focus on it. Okay, so it's been a few days, surely he has read it. And to this point, he has not responded. Yet, he is able to contact you about a neutral issue and even have some rather flirty sensual emails. Seems to me he is choosing to just defer dealing with the issues at hand here.

 

My suggestion is to not indulge him in anymore conversations unless he is willing to respond to your email. If you keep having contact with him, skirting around the core of the issues, you are enabling him to continue with this aloof manner. If he contacts you, be clear that unless he is willing to talk about the issues, you are not willing to have contact with him. Otherwise, you are just keeping yourself in limbo.

 

In otherwords, the message to him needs to be "S**t or get off the pot"

 

I know it's blunt and many will tell me it is being insensitive, but that's how I see it.

 

I wish you luck.

[westrock]

Mimi, I don't have much time to post, so I'll get right to the point, and give you some more info later.

 

Northstar's and WSeeker's advice is consistent with mine. Listen to them.

 

Remember we said 1 month? You have 27 days to go. During that time embrace all the abanonment feelings. Let them all out. All these feelings you are feeling is your subconscious ego trying to get you "back in line" as it doesn't like this new Mimi. Your ego will do everything it can to get you back in line, including bringing out its big guns -- abandonment. That is why you are now seeing happy couples everywhere and you're crying and so on. But, the new Mimi is emerging who is far more mature and wiser.

 

I want you to try this exercise. It may seem weird, but it works. Go stand in front of a mirror and have a conversation with yourself. Call your ego to come foward... your conversation should go something like this:

 

"Mimi-Ego come out, I want to talk with you. This is New-Big-Girl-Mimi talking now. I know you want the best for me and you're doing everything you can to get me back into line. But you're no longer dealing with the old-little-girl-Mimi. I know you've been putting me against Abandoned-Mimi for all these years, and it's always worked, but I'm now here to tell you Ego-Mimi that it won't work any more. I'm going to be making peace with Abandoned-Mimi. Any time you pull out Abandoned-Mimi to get me back in line, I'm telling you it won't work. Now, Ego-Mimi, if you want the best for me, then you will stop interfering. We good on that? Great, now I want to talk to Abandoned-Mimi. Abandoned-Mimi, come out from hiding, it's okay, this is New-Big-Girl-Mimi. First off, I want to apologise for the way I have been ignoring you all these years. I didn't know what I was doing, and I was just going along with Ego-Mimi. But, I just had a talk with Ego-Mimi and laid down the law. I want you to know that from now on, every time I feel you knocking on my subconscious and I feel abandoned or rejected, I'll know it's you Abandoned-Mimi knocking. I promise I won't ignore you. Abandoned-Mimi, I want you to know that from now on you will never be alone, abandoned, or rejected again because New-Big-Girl Mimi will be right here to comfort you and love you. To show that I really care, I even arranged for a pedicure and it's just for you Abandoned-Mimi. You're my best new friend Abandoned-Mimi. ;)"

[GrayClouds]

Hugs to you ((( Mimi )))

 

I know you're hurting, but I am going to suggest to you something that may sound counter-intuitive: don't fight the feelings of abandonment. Instead I want you to get empowered by actually feeling the emptiness/abandonment, ALL OF IT -- this is not to punish you, but to motivate you to realise you can deal with your fear of abandonment on your own. That is actually the core issue as to why you were smothering your b/f. Up until now you have been relying on him to deal with your fear of abandonment when you should be dealing with it on your own. Once you understand that you'll see things in a whole new light.

 

 

 

This is a very helpful book:

The Journey from Abandonment to Healing

 

Not only does it help to understand whats going on inside but offers some practices to move on.

[mimiminx]

Miniminx

 

I'm sorry you are still feeling so down about this.

 

I guess I'm going to take a different path here than most with my suggestion. Ofcourse, you can choose to ignore it, but best to at least give you different viewpoints and some tough love.

 

You sent him a pretty concise email a few days ago and he said that he needed time to read it clearly and focus on it. Okay, so it's been a few days, surely he has read it. And to this point, he has not responded. Yet, he is able to contact you about a neutral issue and even have some rather flirty sensual emails. Seems to me he is choosing to just defer dealing with the issues at hand here.

 

My suggestion is to not indulge him in anymore conversations unless he is willing to respond to your email. If you keep having contact with him, skirting around the core of the issues, you are enabling him to continue with this aloof manner. If he contacts you, be clear that unless he is willing to talk about the issues, you are not willing to have contact with him. Otherwise, you are just keeping yourself in limbo.

 

In otherwords, the message to him needs to be "S**t or get off the pot"

 

I know it's blunt and many will tell me it is being insensitive, but that's how I see it.

 

I wish you luck.

 

I completely agree and that is what I am going to do. I don't think it's insensitive at all. That's my next course of action. Who knows if and when he'll actually address it or come to the realization that he wants to give this another try. If he never contacts me again, then I'll know he's moving on or doesn't care anymore. Regardless, I am learning a lot myself and am working on myself. If he comes back, great. If he doesn't, I'll be more mature and have addressed some very important issues for myself. I'm going to try to embrace being alone right now..

[ecm]

"Mimi-Ego come out, I want to talk with you...."

 

 

Westrock- Brilliant. Thanks.

[mimiminx]

I know it's only been a few days, but it seems like he's distancing from me. The neutral email he sent, he was just on FB and normally he wouldv'e tried to chat with me but he didn't. Reminds me of what Westrock said, now he's going to go into distance mode, and I have to give him the distance by not pursuing. I won't. I won't call or make contact. If he does, I will respond but steer the convo towards my email.

It would make me so happy to think, hmm.. he's processing this. On the other hand, I fear that he just doesn't give a damn and is now getting further and further away from me. After the sexy phone call the other day, maybe he feels embarrassed or maybe he feels like well, I want it with her, but I can't have it with her, so maybe I should get it somewhere else. Again, my greatest fear is that I won't hear from him again. It'll be too late. This is the time that I want to contact him, but I won't thanks to Westrock's advice. These are the actions that needed to change, as i would have done that before, but not now. When he and I were talking recently, he said words won't change or fix the issues, it's actions that really count. Hmmmm....here are the actions.

Can't stop thinking about it.. now that he's "distancing" I feel abandoned and I want to reach out to him to relieve my feelings of abandonment. As hard as it is, it's a tough habit to break, I will deal with it on my own. He will see that. He will see that I'm not pushing anymore. Scares me when he "goes away". Really scares me. But I know his feelings for me, they can't possibly change or go away in a matter of three days. One thing I forgot to mention is that when we talk, not always but often, he is engaged in the conversation about the relationship. He wants to talk about it. Does that mean he's still interested? Or is he just lonely and being selfish by talking to me, trying to get his "fix" so it will be easier to dump me completely? I can't let this go, as much as I try... I'm really trying here.. just the feelings come in and hit me hard. I just don't want to have all this hope then be crushed. My hearts already been broken, I don't want it broken again. I want this feeling to be over. Either we're on the road to reconciliation or we're done. I have to be patient I guess and at the same time protect my heart, work on myself, communicate with him with boundaries, and be strong. I have my weak moments, often, but that's ok. When it comes down to it, I feel that I'm doing the right things.

[mimiminx]

He contacted me tonight. Tonight was the #1 attempt, I will only give it ONE MORE TIME before we steer it towards the email I wrote him. (Taking your advice with this, Westrock).. he chatted with me on FB, then called. He was tired and is starting his new job in the morning, but wanted to talk to me. We talked about our new jobs, etc. He asked about the new place I am going to be moving into. He told me about his weekend, talked about some of our mutual friends. I mentioned that I went to our favorite restaurant last night and went to a concert when he asked what I've been doing. He asked who I went with. (I went with my parents) He was talking about his new job, that he was only going to be there temporarily, as he is coming back to San Diego. He also said that he wasn't going to put in a change of address but instead was going to put a hold on his mail because he wasn't going to be up in Portland for very long. (????)

We talked for about 20 minutes. Eventually I said I guess I'll let you go.." and he asked if I was going to bed too. I said no, I'm going to be up for awhile, I am in the middle of writing an email. And he asked who I was writing. I said "no one you know" (which was true). He called me honey and his pet name for me tonight. I told him that I will talk to him again soon, I wanted to talk more with him (about what I wrote) He said goodnight "sug" (his pet name for me- I've always liked it. I will hear from him very soon again.

This is what's hard: the next time we talk, I am, no question about it, going to steer the convo towards the email. I am well prepared that I may not hear from him again after that. Talking to him makes me feel good, I love the sound of his voice. But, I can't remain in the limbo.. as good as it feels to have that attachment, it isn't enough. I love this man with all my heart, and I know he really loves me too. Why the hell else is he persistently contacting me and flirting with me?! Now, I can see his jealousy starting to come out, not jealousy but curiousity. He wants to know if I'm involved or starting to date.. which I'm NOT of course. But he wants to know. "Who'd you go with? Who are you writing the email to? Are you still taking the pill?

After our next conversation, that might be it. Hard for me to let him go, but I will. I just love him so much. I wish we could see eachother. Would that be a mistake? For us to meet in person? He told me recently that he would love to see me, I could stay with him. You would think that if we were on the way to reconciling, (maybe) we could see eachother in person. I guess I'm going to have to hold out on that one. That may not happen. We might not get back together. I have to not put my hopes there. But really, if we get to talking about the issues, getting closer, wouldn't it make sense for us to see eachother? (I know, I'm getting ahead of myself). Sometimes I wish we actually could see eachother, it would put more things in motion?

He's warming up to me, I can tell... I think. Now it's my turn to set things in the direction I want them to go. It's very hard, but I will do it. I'll be fine.

In the meantime, I will be open to meeting new people, just casually, nothing romantic. I'm not going to wait around for him. Even if we do continue to talk about the "issue", there's no guarantee that he and I are going to get back together, so I may as well assume it's really over and start to live my life without him! Try to move on, just be open to what's out there. I won't cling to hope, I've done everything I could with this. It's up to him now what he wants to do with what I've left him to stew over and I am handling this well, I think.

Again, I feel better. Probably just because I heard from him, tomorrow might be another story and I'll end up crying again. I know what I have to do now even though it's very hard, it will be the best thing I can do. I feel myself getting stronger overall, even with moments of weakness.

[seoa]

Honestly Mimi - *I* am feeling smothered by you, and I'm not your ex...

 

If you looked at the 'why you shouldn't dwell on your ex' thread, you might have followed the link to this diagram: http://www.cyndall.com/energy.html

 

Look at diagram 6, and see if you can relate it to your situation. I know it's not concrete, and has no scientific basis at all, but it's a great picture of the Distancer /Pursuer dynamic. (And there is reasoning behind it - it will infect every interaction you have with him, in subtle ways, so that he will be able to feel your pursuit of him.)

 

You need to LEAVE HIM ALONE mentally - stop smothering him...

 

Try thinking of it this way - the one month 'counter' for him to deal with your email & start responding will only *begin* when you give him some space... That's why we were recommending NC as the starting point...

 

Try the 'want-to want-to want-to' prayer (or 'statement of intent' if you don't pray):

 

"I don't currently want to stop hanging on to this relationship

with every muscle in my tightly gripped fingers...

 

I don't even want-to want-to stop, at this point...

 

But I can see that I should want-to want-to, so I want-to want-to want-to..."

 

Good luck with it.