Yet another guy stuck in a sexless marriage

[Sam Spade]

Because if everything else is great in the marriage, then dumping his partner of 30 years and dividing the family over sex (because THAT is how his wife would portray it) is not the best alternative. Losing the children is not worth it.

 

Marriage should include sex, and my guess is John would really like great sex with his wife. Yet for some reason, she refuses and worse yet, she refuses to find out why she lost her interest. This hurts the most.

 

Point is...she gets all that she wants from the marriage. He does not. So, if he divorces, then it becomes "You are divorcing me over sex?!?

 

Perhaps she would rather he gets it elsewhere discreetly?

 

 

That is true, but as others have suggested, it goes much deeper than sex: she blatantly disrespects him via her attitude ("That's ought to las you a while?":mad:WTF:mad:), and by refusing to acknowledge that there is a problem and at least make a credible *attempt* to address it. In this circumstances it is perfectly legit (for me) to divorce.

So, this type of marriage seems to have way more problems than frequency of sex.

Personally, I am concerned of someday ending up in a situation like this, that's why I've vowed to be particularly vigilant in detecting signals of such attitude.

[Thaddeus]

I did. I suggested divorce. It amazes me how often this advice is discounted.

And it amazes me that the first arrow you bring out of the quiver is to end the marriage. Talk about overkill..!

 

Menopause can play havoc with a woman's sex drive. I think that's probably the issue, so I'm curious to see if she's under a doctor's care. What's most troubling, though, is the way she's throwing out a smokescreen to make it all HIS fault.

[Lizzie60]

I have not read the whole thread but I have to say that withholding sex just out of boredom or laziness is cheating..

 

Hey! women put all their sexual problems no menopause.. sooorrrryyy it's not menopause.. I am 57.. so I know.. my libido is sky high.. why? because I have variety... I've been with the same man for over 29 years (total) and I was bored.. sex was NOT important.. it was a sacrifice..

 

When I finally left him.. oh surprise.. I went on a sexual rampage..

 

Problem with OP.. IMO.. is that he is still very active physically.. she's probably not.. physical activity is good for the mind and body.. it keeps someone 'healthy' sexually and mentally...

 

Maybe she should join a gym or go hiking with him..

 

My advice: have a 'serious' talk with her.. and tell her that if nothing changed.. you will cheat.. since she's cheating herself..

[Lizzie60]

And it amazes me that the first arrow you bring out of the quiver is to end the marriage. Talk about overkill..!

 

Menopause can play havoc with a woman's sex drive. I think that's probably the issue, so I'm curious to see if she's under a doctor's care. What's most troubling, though, is the way she's throwing out a smokescreen to make it all HIS fault.

 

 

I have to disagree with the 'menopause' excuse..

 

When women are young.. get pregnant.. blame it on pregnancy.. then have the child.. blame it on breastfeeding, etc.. then blame it on their career, then blame it on menopause.. (I'm not blaming women here.. this is what seems to happen.. btdt)

 

I honestly think that men and women are JUST wired DIFFERENTLY.. and men want a lot more sex than women all their life.. in general.. (read most).... it seems that sexual desire never dies in a male. .. while it does for women..

[angie2443]

And it amazes me that the first arrow you bring out of the quiver is to end the marriage. Talk about overkill..!

 

.

 

I don't believe it's an arrow. I believe it's a plausible solution. I've known many people who've divorced. Divorce ends it quickly. Cheating is a slow, painful death.

[carhill]

I'm presuming the OP, as myself, wants a normal and healthy relationship with a woman, in his case hopefully his wife, but, regardless, with someone else in the future. My stance is MC will help *him* repair the psychological impact of being in a sexless marriage for so long. IMO, such a dynamic has warped his perception of what a healthy relationship is, even though he sees sexless as 'bad' for him. It goes far deeper than that and, if he's willing, the psychological work in MC will help him lessen the 'baggage' he brings from this M into future relationships, should the M not survive. The key, of course, is him. What does he want? How hard is he willing to work? He can't control his wife's actions nor her love for him. OP? What do you think here, after reading all this discussion?

[JamesM]

Lizzie, I love you. You give great advice. So why do you have to live in Canada?

 

However, if all women understood the importance of sex in their marriage, as you do, then you would have no MM to pleasure you.

[angie2443]

Lizzie, I love you. You give great advice. So why do you have to live in Canada?

 

However, if all women understood the importance of sex in their marriage, as you do, then you would have no MM to pleasure you.

 

Lizzie has sex with younger men. Maybe that's the key for all these women to regain their interest in sex again. I really am starting to wonder.

[JamesM]

Sex is important. Many things are important in a marriage. Many things help the bond of intimacy. Is it possible that those other things started to fade before the sex was lost, but the husband didn't take notice because he was bieng taken care of sexually?

 

Yes, anything is possible. And it is possible that menopause is causing the problem. However, it is the lack of concern on her part to FIX the problem that is at the root here.

 

If it is his fault, then MC will help. If it is his fault, then she needs to give him some ways to fix the problem. Shutting him out and treating sex with him as on par with doing the laundry (which she probably enjoys doing more) is simply another way of cheating.

 

Anyways, I think this guy just wants sex with younger women and doesn't want to say that directly. He brags about bieng the physical equivalent of a man 20 years younger than himself. He calls his wife phsically disabled (I think that is what he said). He wants others to validate his option of secretly using an escort service. This is, IMO, all this is about.

 

Ironically, most men cheat with someone who is around the same age or within a few years. And most choose someone who in even their own minds, is less beautiful than their wives.

 

Angies, get that notion out of your head that you have no control over your husband's actions. You do.

 

And John did not call his wife disabled....he said he has accepted that she may be medically disabled. The fact is...he doesn't know because she will not see a doctor and try to fix the problem.

[JamesM]

Lizzie has sex with younger men. Maybe that's the key for all these women to regain their interest in sex again. I really am starting to wonder.

 

Yes, but ironically that blows your theory apart that these MM seek out younger women. Fact is....Lizzie is much older than her MM...and me, but it is her interest in sex that attracts them.

[Gamine]

I have to disagree with the 'menopause' excuse..

 

When women are young.. get pregnant.. blame it on pregnancy.. then have the child.. blame it on breastfeeding, etc.. then blame it on their career, then blame it on menopause.. (I'm not blaming women here.. this is what seems to happen.. btdt)

 

I honestly think that men and women are JUST wired DIFFERENTLY.. and men want a lot more sex than women all their life.. in general.. (read most).... it seems that sexual desire never dies in a male. .. while it does for women..

 

 

So what did you chalk your lack of interest to? Was it children, etc.... I'm really interested.

 

Because what seems to come through is that you were turned off by a man you were involved with for 29 years... shut down sexually. Leave him... and become a sex pot.

 

Is it that you find these men sexually attractive as long as you don't have to take care of them? How would you have reacted if your H gave you the speech you recommend he make to his wife? Would you have told him to shove it and go ahead and get a girlfriend?

 

I mean on one hand, Lizzie, you are this sexual maverick... telling men how you are constantly hot and... often counseling them to put their foot down with their wives you aren't putting out. Then on the other hand, you yourself state that you were sexless until you dumped your husband. These examples illustrate that you blame the wife... when you see yourself as the OW. Then when you see yourself as the wife, you blame the man.

 

Which is it?

[angie2443]

Because what seems to come through is that you were turned off by a man you were involved with for 29 years... shut down sexually. Leave him... and become a sex pot.

 

Is it that you find these men sexually attractive as long as you don't have to take care of them?

 

You know, taking care of a man on top of taking care of the children and working can be extremely exhausting. I think many women become exhausted and resentful of the man after awhile. I think this would have happened in my situation if I didn't fight for my husband to do his share at home.

 

Maybe Lizzie has the answer for many women. Many women feel a profound sense of freedom after leaving a marriage. I don't know. I think I've been reading too much LS lately.

[carhill]

I've been watching how women use sexual innuendos and flirtations to get a man (me) to do what they want. I've been engaging in this little psychological experiment adjunct to my work in MC to better understand why I would abrogate my commitment to fidelity.

 

For the purposes of my experiment, all females have been married or otherwise attached and are known to me, as in friends or wives of friends. I've found a consistent and perhaps unsurprising pattern of, when they want something, something they can't have without my involvement, they become more personable, more flirtatious, more physical. Essentially, they're using tools, perhaps subconsciously, that women use to 'get' men. The really cool part is, once they 'have' me, once I've given them what they want, either overtly or not, they shut it off like a faucet. They don't need me anymore, until the next time.

 

From conversations with their SO's (the ones I know well enough to glean such information from), their relationship dynamics support the results of my experiment, though on a more global scale.

 

This is good information for me, moving forward, to narrow the scope of compatible potentials and to better manage the demand/supply dynamic for my own best interests. I've had enough life and love sucked out of me for one lifetime

 

My results, IMO, apply precisely to the OP's circumstance. Wifey is comfortable, has what she wants, so sees no need to extend herself physically or emotionally to her H. Maximum benefit from minimum effort. Pragmatism at its best. Women are the masters

[Thaddeus]

You know, taking care of a man on top of taking care of the children and working can be extremely exhausting. I think many women become exhausted and resentful of the man after awhile. I think this would have happened in my situation if I didn't fight for my husband to do his share at home.

No doubt this is absolutely true. Men have to step up to the plate in maintaining the household.

 

Where it starts to go off the rails is when sex becomes a quid pro quo - "Help with the dishes and the kids and the housework and all the rest and then, maybe, I might consider intimacy."

 

Well, if the fellow was sexually satisfied by his partner, he'd likely be much more willing to do those things.

 

And around and around and around it goes.

 

For the record, I've been in exactly that situation and ended up doing waaaaayy more than my share in the household, working full-time (while she didn't), handling almost all the cooking & cleaning up and all the rest (we didn't have kids).

 

Did it help?

 

Nope. Didn't make a damn bit of difference. Then I got resentful (which, frankly, is completely out of character for me). She got all of the benefits of the relationship without any effort whatsoever. It was a perfectly example of what Carhill said:

Wifey is comfortable, has what she wants, so sees no need to extend herself physically or emotionally to her H. Maximum benefit from minimum effort. Pragmatism at its best. Women are the masters

 

And I'm sorry, Angie2243, that you have to fight to get your husband to do his share. That's not healthy.

[Carm]

What would hurt me the most out of all of this is the lack of concern on her part. If she at least attempted to find out if there was anything she could do medically or emotionally to recharge this drive then at least she's done her bit.

 

I think it is cruel and selfish not to want to seek help!

[Gamine]

You know, taking care of a man on top of taking care of the children and working can be extremely exhausting. I think many women become exhausted and resentful of the man after awhile. I think this would have happened in my situation if I didn't fight for my husband to do his share at home.

 

Maybe Lizzie has the answer for many women. Many women feel a profound sense of freedom after leaving a marriage. I don't know. I think I've been reading too much LS lately.

 

Or, Angie, is it that they become one of the children? Think about it. When a man looses his edgy masculinity and muddles himself down... in line with the children... in the neutered 'yes dear mode'... I'm wondering if HE becomes sexually repulsive to his wife?

 

We girls all know women enjoy sex. I bet if I met any one of the men's wives who claim they could do without it... and wish they could... and sat down and talked... I bet they'd admit they'd love to have sex. I have never met any woman who feels grossed out by lovemaking.

 

Are the men in effect... neutering themselves when they 'fall in line' like a child to be taken care of? Are they inadvertently shooting themselves in the foot and out of the bedroom when they make themselves someone the wife is to take care of? Once she takes care of him like a child does he become a part of her maternal mental wiring and the thought of having sex with him feeling like incest?

 

I'm probing.... what do you think?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

this time..... So many responses on a weekend already..... I just read the OP and think one thing..... 1X/year for three years and now he is ready to do something????? This would be the exact post my spouse would point at and claim how luck I am in fact at 1-2X's/mth.....

 

I can't fathom how someone can go so long and then finally realize that this is not right or normal..... Probably a reflection how little sex played prior to it being shut off maybe.....

 

I would say insist on MC or get out..... I'd also say you need to be honest with kids (especially teenagers) about why if you are divorcing it is happening.... They need to understand the importance of all aspects of a happy marriage, lest they perpetuate the same mistakes.

[Thaddeus]

Or, Angie, is it that they become one of the children? Think about it. When a man looses his edgy masculinity and muddles himself down... in line with the children... in the neutered 'yes dear mode'... I'm wondering if HE becomes sexually repulsive to his wife?

I think there's a LOT of truth to this.

 

As soon as a man starts kowtowing to his wife, in the (wonderfully descriptive) 'yes dear' mode, her respect for him goes into the toilet.

 

Men, take note. Losing yourself in your marriage is pretty much a sure-fire way to lose your partner.

[angie2443]

Or, Angie, is it that they become one of the children? Think about it. When a man looses his edgy masculinity and muddles himself down... in line with the children... in the neutered 'yes dear mode'... I'm wondering if HE becomes sexually repulsive to his wife?

 

We girls all know women enjoy sex. I bet if I met any one of the men's wives who claim they could do without it... and wish they could... and sat down and talked... I bet they'd admit they'd love to have sex. I have never met any woman who feels grossed out by lovemaking.

 

Are the men in effect... neutering themselves when they 'fall in line' like a child to be taken care of? Are they inadvertently shooting themselves in the foot and out of the bedroom when they make themselves someone the wife is to take care of? Once she takes care of him like a child does he become a part of her maternal mental wiring and the thought of having sex with him feeling like incest?

 

I'm probing.... what do you think?

 

In my experience, once we became married, we started falling into these crazy roles. The funny thing was, my husband was the one who wanted it that way. I always thought he was a "liberal" kind of guy, but when I took on the title of wife, he wanted me to be Wilma Flinstone. He wanted me to cook and clean every night. He stopped doing the laundry and other household chores and as long as he didn't have to do much, he did become a "yes dear" type of guy. It was me that didn't want it this way, and that caused many battles in the past.

 

I think maybe, the traditional model of marriage (husband as one of the kids) works better for the men as long as they getting plenty of sex. I think it burns out the women, though.

 

As far as women becomming repulsed at their husbands, I didn't reach that poing but I can see how that would happen. One of the most important things for me to bond with my husband is to have that "we're in this together" feeling. If he's sitting down by the tv, not helping me, not bieng in the marriage with me like a grown man, but one of the kids waiting for me to tell him what to do, then it is a lonely marriage and yes, some of the attraction is lost.

[mem11363]

The stuff below is true of my wife. Is this how other women react?

 

>>>>>>>

When I am actively involved in parenting the kids, when I discipline them in a firm, strong a loving way, that turns her on. In fact when I have conflict with ANYONE including her, and I use skill and determination to prevail I think that is the single biggest turn on for her.

 

When I am passive, give her the - what the heck do you want to do with this belligerent child, or worse - get in a shouting match with one of our teenagers, this turns her off.

 

When I pick up the phone call the handyman - subtle turn off - when I take out toolbox and fix problem - mild turn on/absence of turn off.

 

More generally - when the man goes into total "yes dear" mode he is lost. And when he loses the ability/desire to assert himself like a "real man" to get what he wants from life, then he is hurting her desire and risking a sexless marriage.

 

 

 

 

In my experience, once we became married, we started falling into these crazy roles. The funny thing was, my husband was the one who wanted it that way. I always thought he was a "liberal" kind of guy, but when I took on the title of wife, he wanted me to be Wilma Flinstone. He wanted me to cook and clean every night. He stopped doing the laundry and other household chores and as long as he didn't have to do much, he did become a "yes dear" type of guy. It was me that didn't want it this way, and that caused many battles in the past.

 

I think maybe, the traditional model of marriage (husband as one of the kids) works better for the men as long as they getting plenty of sex. I think it burns out the women, though.

 

As far as women becomming repulsed at their husbands, I didn't reach that poing but I can see how that would happen. One of the most important things for me to bond with my husband is to have that "we're in this together" feeling. If he's sitting down by the tv, not helping me, not bieng in the marriage with me like a grown man, but one of the kids waiting for me to tell him what to do, then it is a lonely marriage and yes, some of the attraction is lost.

[carhill]

I think maybe, the traditional model of marriage (husband as one of the kids) works better for the men as long as they getting plenty of sex. I think it burns out the women, though.

 

If you could enlighten me as to the culture in which married men are considered one of the children, I'd be very appreciative

 

I ask because, in my experience as a married man, and the dynamic I experienced as a child, the 'man' was never considered a child nor acted like a child. I need to find the culture of perpetual childhood. In it I will never die

[angie2443]

If you could enlighten me as to the culture in which married men are considered one of the children, I'd be very appreciative

 

I ask because, in my experience as a married man, and the dynamic I experienced as a child, the 'man' was never considered a child nor acted like a child. I need to find the culture of perpetual childhood. In it I will never die

 

I don't always understand you, but you make me laugh often!

 

I don't think I worded things too well. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that there are many things that have to be done. Bills have to be paid, things have to be cleaned, cars have to be repaired, children have to be fed, diapered, diciplined, clothed, played with, educated, etc. Sometimes it seems that once a man is married he depends on his wife to take care of all this. He doesn't take initiative. If his wife doesn't say anything, he'll be happy to sit on the couch all day and watch tv. I think when this happens, that feeling of bieng a team is lost. Maybe many men are clueless. Maybe they just know if the wife has to ask them for help, she's more likely to do it herself.

[mem11363]

Edgy masculinity

 

That is perfect. I bet you do this - you ask women to rate their husbands on that one scale:

- When they met

- On their wedding day

- Every 5 years after

 

I bet you find a HIGH correlation to their sex life. Just from that one single thing.

 

 

 

Or, Angie, is it that they become one of the children? Think about it. When a man looses his edgy masculinity and muddles himself down... in line with the children... in the neutered 'yes dear mode'... I'm wondering if HE becomes sexually repulsive to his wife?

 

We girls all know women enjoy sex. I bet if I met any one of the men's wives who claim they could do without it... and wish they could... and sat down and talked... I bet they'd admit they'd love to have sex. I have never met any woman who feels grossed out by lovemaking.

 

Are the men in effect... neutering themselves when they 'fall in line' like a child to be taken care of? Are they inadvertently shooting themselves in the foot and out of the bedroom when they make themselves someone the wife is to take care of? Once she takes care of him like a child does he become a part of her maternal mental wiring and the thought of having sex with him feeling like incest?

 

I'm probing.... what do you think?

[JamesM]

Or, Angie, is it that they become one of the children? Think about it. When a man looses his edgy masculinity and muddles himself down... in line with the children... in the neutered 'yes dear mode'... I'm wondering if HE becomes sexually repulsive to his wife?

 

The problem with this if it is true is that in a marriage, both partners need to work at it. Subtle suggestions or refusal of sex do not solve problems. Open communication does. And when my wife says "it is me not you" and I try to get her to open up on this, then we have a bigger problem than no sex.

 

Honestly, I don't think she would consider me neutered. But then this brings up a new issue. "Help around the house more." Yet if I say yes dear, too often then she loses respect. If I don't help, then she loses respect.

 

BTW, today I did laundry, dishes and fed the children. She worked last night. We share duties quite well. I am the main disciplinarian in this house. She will admit she cannot do nearly as well. I am not saying that she would not complain, because I am not perfect. Yet if she were honest, then she would see that I have done my best.

 

Am I a "yes, dear" man? Good question. Am I afraid of telling her what I think? Absolutely not. Does she know how I feel about sex and the lack of it and why I feel it is necessary? Yes.

 

We girls all know women enjoy sex. I bet if I met any one of the men's wives who claim they could do without it... and wish they could... and sat down and talked... I bet they'd admit they'd love to have sex. I have never met any woman who feels grossed out by lovemaking.

 

Then my wife is lying to me when she says she has no interest in sex. And yet a couple of weeks ago, she had to tell me she had a sex dream about me...which hasn't happened in months. (My reaction was probably...who cares, because I knew it would lead nowhere...and it didn't).

 

I would love to have someone sit down with my wife and get her to open up. And if she has to someone, then I would love to know what she thinks that she hasn't told me. I can say that anyone I meet from her work has told me what "wonderful things" she says about me. They all could be lying to me, but there are too many to be all lying.

 

Does she feel grossed out? No, she simply isn't "hungry." She doesn't need it.

 

Are the men in effect... neutering themselves when they 'fall in line' like a child to be taken care of?

 

If they do not help out, then yes. If they do not take care of the children, then yes. If they spend their lives at work and come home at might with a "What's for dinner?" and "Where is the remote?" and then start pawing the wife for sex, then yes.

 

Are they inadvertently shooting themselves in the foot and out of the bedroom when they make themselves someone the wife is to take care of? Once she takes care of him like a child does he become a part of her maternal mental wiring and the thought of having sex with him feeling like incest?

 

Yes.

 

But you are not describing my situation.

 

I'm probing.... what do you think?

 

I think my wife has a number of reasons inside of her that have caused her to shut down. And I can accept that. What I cannot accept is the fact that she does not care enough about our children, our marriage, and me to find out WHY she does not want sex when she knows and has admitted to me that it is important to a marriage.

[JamesM]

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that there are many things that have to be done. Bills have to be paid, things have to be cleaned, cars have to be repaired, children have to be fed, diapered, diciplined, clothed, played with, educated, etc. Sometimes it seems that once a man is married he depends on his wife to take care of all this. He doesn't take initiative. If his wife doesn't say anything, he'll be happy to sit on the couch all day and watch tv. I think when this happens, that feeling of bieng a team is lost. Maybe many men are clueless. Maybe they just know if the wife has to ask them for help, she's more likely to do it herself.

 

And if this were the case, then I could say that it is understandable.

 

While I can say that my wife will complain once in awhile, she compliments just as often. And usually when I have not kept up on the housework while she could not do it, it was because I was doing yard work or something else outside.

 

When I read of men who do the above and still get sex, then I simply get resentful and angry. I feel that I have jumped through every hoop and even created new ones, yet nothing changes.

 

Funny thing is....a couple of passionate nights of sex due to an overwhelming appreciation of something I did will simply cause me to do that thing over and over expect even better.