Yet another guy stuck in a sexless marriage

[carhill]

Bills have to be paid, things have to be cleaned, cars have to be repaired, children have to be fed, diapered, diciplined, clothed, played with, educated, etc. Sometimes it seems that once a man is married he depends on his wife to take care of all this. He doesn't take initiative. If his wife doesn't say anything, he'll be happy to sit on the couch all day and watch tv.

 

Ah, yes, I have observed this culture. The culture of the big screen, cup holder, 24 hour sports channel. I was often offended that our intrusion as guests did little to change this culture into one more habitable and palatable to foreigners like myself. I often wondered what I was doing wrong not having that big screen, cup holder and 24 hour sports channel. I was a man without a country. Largely, I still am. Perhaps one day I will find my home.

 

FWIW, I did all those things. Transitioning to single life has been nothing to me. I sing at the grocery store and smile at people as I buy treats for my new cats (my wife took the one I midwived with her when she left) and am looking right now for a great seasoning rub for the tri-tip I will BBQ for friends I'm visiting at the coast tomorrow. I did all those things (cooking, cleaning, bla, bla) when I was single for 20 years and then married for 10). Ulitmately, it was the lack of appreciation of my gifts, love and commitment which led me first to withdraw sexually, then engage in an EA. In retrospect, both actions were wrong and inappropriate and hurtful. I should've divorced her years ago and started singing back then.

[angie2443]

FWIW, I did all those things. Transitioning to single life has been nothing to me. I sing at the grocery store and smile at people as I buy treats for my new cats (my wife took the one I midwived with her when she left) and am looking right now for a great seasoning rub for the tri-tip I will BBQ for friends I'm visiting at the coast tomorrow. I did all those things (cooking, cleaning, bla, bla) when I was single for 20 years and then married for 10). Ulitmately, it was the lack of appreciation of my gifts, love and commitment which led me first to withdraw sexually, then engage in an EA. In retrospect, both actions were wrong and inappropriate and hurtful. I should've divorced her years ago and started singing back then.

 

It always strikes me how much seem to view things in the way a woman does. Maybe you have the perfect mix of both male and female characteristics. Anyways, I'm glad you're back to singing:).

[angie2443]

When I read of men who do the above and still get sex, then I simply get resentful and angry. I feel that I have jumped through every hoop and even created new ones, yet nothing changes.

 

Funny thing is....a couple of passionate nights of sex due to an overwhelming appreciation of something I did will simply cause me to do that thing over and over expect even better.

 

This is the part that throws me. I assume you meant they didn't get sex. It just feels to me that there is this equation that goes something like "doing dishes = sex". If you say that, it's like you're saying you don't really have to do the dishes and your wife really doesn't like sex, because having sex with you is a gift she gives you for the dishes. I just don't understand this mentality. I think I posted somewhere on these boards that I pretty much grew up without a mother. My father had no one to reward him for doing dishes or paying the bills. He did these things because they had to be done. When I lived with roommates, if one of us didn't pick up after ourselves or pay our share of the bills, the other one would have left. There are certain things you do in life because they have to be done, not because you expect a reward for them.

[carhill]

TBH, I think everyone naturally has a mix of male and female characteristics. The process is becoming comfortable with one's particular mix being shown to the world in an authentic way. I see this as a methodology of selection and acceptance. People with whom I can be my authentic self are those whom have chosen to accept my path (and I theirs) and to embrace the positives (as well as the negatives) of the mix. For example, those guys who have the 24/7 sports channel have to suffer through me not knowing nor caring about all the stats about their favorite teams, but we can share an interest in other 'guy' things like auto racing (I did that for years) and 'building' things.

 

The mix mainly becomes detrimental with women due to their intrinsic setpoint of what is considered male behavior. The guy who jumps up to clear the table and do the dishes isn't exactly getting 'male' attaboy points, though his services may be greatly appreciated. He becomes a maid, which is what I became during my marriage. Even if the maid had a hard-on tenting his shorts, he was still viewed as the effeminate dishwasher, toilet cleaner, dinner preparer.

 

So, either I need to de-evolve and seek out that perpetual childhood, or find a woman who has evolved to see the 'mix' as a positive, attractive and sexy thing. I vastly prefer the latter, but being happily single will do. I hope the OP finds his unique path. If he chooses mine, I hope he's prepared to be poor. It hasn't been shyte's and giggles, to be sure.

[JamesM]

This is the part that throws me. I assume you meant they didn't get sex. It just feels to me that there is this equation that goes something like "doing dishes = sex". If you say that, it's like you're saying you don't really have to do the dishes and your wife really doesn't like sex, because having sex with you is a gift she gives you for the dishes. I just don't understand this mentality. I think I posted somewhere on these boards that I pretty much grew up without a mother. My father had no one to reward him for doing dishes or paying the bills. He did these things because they had to be done. When I lived with roommates, if one of us didn't pick up after ourselves or pay our share of the bills, the other one would have left. There are certain things you do in life because they have to be done, not because you expect a reward for them.

 

 

No, I don't mean that I should be rewarded sexually for every chore I do. I do these things because they have to be done.

 

My point is...women use the reason for not having sex with their husbands because they do not help around the house....as you just did. How can guys who sit in front of the TV expect to have wives who will be interested in them sexually?

 

So, I point out that pleasing a husband who does these chores would be a great way to encourage him. And you respond with the "So you want sex as a reward?" line.

 

See...there is no winning.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

No, I don't mean that I should be rewarded sexually for every chore I do. I do these things because they have to be done.

 

My point is...women use the reason for not having sex with their husbands because they do not help around the house....as you just did. How can guys who sit in front of the TV expect to have wives who will be interested in them sexually?

 

So, I point out that pleasing a husband who does these chores would be a great way to encourage him. And you respond with the "So you want sex as a reward?" line.

 

See...there is no winning.

 

don't you get it..... There is no winning..... Too tired to dig up my thread about the exact same thing in June/July..... I got very upset at a poster claiming men who did "chores" were sissy's and actually it was a turnoff.

 

I remember asking how fast a woman would be enraged if she wanted sex and was told "I'm just too tired from working and chores to invest 20 minutes (and yes can have very good sex in that time) and by the way 30 Rock is on in twenty minutes and I just must finish this chapter in my book before, may be we can try again next month.":D

[Lizzie60]

Lizzie, I love you. You give great advice. So why do you have to live in Canada?

 

However, if all women understood the importance of sex in their marriage, as you do, then you would have no MM to pleasure you.

 

 

James.. I love you too..

 

You're right.. but I'm not worried.. this won't change tomorrow..

[Lizzie60]

Lizzie has sex with younger men. Maybe that's the key for all these women to regain their interest in sex again. I really am starting to wonder.

 

 

No.. no.. sex younger men is not necessarily the key ... It's all about connection...

 

Younger doesn't mean better.. of course they have more stamina.. but they don't all have the experience an older guy has..

 

For me.. the best age for a man, sexually speaking.. is early to mid-fourties.. I think that's where a man is at his best.. for me anyway...

 

As I said before.. it's all about connection... Even with much much younger guys.. like 20+ age gap.. the connection has to be there.. otherwise.. it could be fun for him.. but not for ME....

[Lizzie60]

So what did you chalk your lack of interest to? Was it children, etc.... I'm really interested.

 

Because what seems to come through is that you were turned off by a man you were involved with for 29 years... shut down sexually. Leave him... and become a sex pot.

 

Is it that you find these men sexually attractive as long as you don't have to take care of them? How would you have reacted if your H gave you the speech you recommend he make to his wife? Would you have told him to shove it and go ahead and get a girlfriend?

 

I mean on one hand, Lizzie, you are this sexual maverick... telling men how you are constantly hot and... often counseling them to put their foot down with their wives you aren't putting out. Then on the other hand, you yourself state that you were sexless until you dumped your husband. These examples illustrate that you blame the wife... when you see yourself as the OW. Then when you see yourself as the wife, you blame the man.

 

Which is it?

 

OK.. I'll try to answer your questions the best I can...

 

Is it that you find these men sexually attractive as long as you don't have to take care of them?

 

Not at all.. in fact.. I have to admit that my SO then.. was doing the larger part of work in the household.. taking care of my son (young then).. he was doing all the cooking (I rarely cook).. was helping me with the cleaning.. etc... He even did all the marinades (pickles, beets, fruit ketchup), jellies.. etc..

 

How would you have reacted if your H gave you the speech you recommend he make to his wife? Would you have told him to shove it and go ahead and get a girlfriend?

 

That's exactly what I told him to do.. get a mistress.. he was insulted.. I had to tell him I was joking..

 

 

I mean on one hand, Lizzie, you are this sexual maverick... telling men how you are constantly hot and... often counseling them to put their foot down with their wives you aren't putting out. Then on the other hand, you yourself state that you were sexless until you dumped your husband. These examples illustrate that you blame the wife... when you see yourself as the OW. Then when you see yourself as the wife, you blame the man.

 

Yes.. I admit.. I WAS the one to blame.. not my SO.. we were both extremely sexual in the first years.. he remained sexual.. not me.. I was bored.. I thought I had better things to do.. sex was NOT important to me... I wasn't sexually attracted to him anymore.. simple as that..

 

My sex drive was in a 'coma'..

[Lizzie60]

You know, taking care of a man on top of taking care of the children and working can be extremely exhausting. I think many women become exhausted and resentful of the man after awhile. I think this would have happened in my situation if I didn't fight for my husband to do his share at home.

 

Maybe Lizzie has the answer for many women. Many women feel a profound sense of freedom after leaving a marriage. I don't know. I think I've been reading too much LS lately.

 

 

This is exactly it!!! Anyway.. for me it was.. I was bored.. I didn't love him anymore.. I love him like a 'best friend' but not as a lover anymore.. The more he felt I was getting away.. the more he became jealous.. I guess he knew he was slowly losing me..

[Lizzie60]

We girls all know women enjoy sex.

 

No.. I disagree... I know a LOT of women who do NOT enjoy sex at all... I was one of them with my 1st ex...

 

I have a few friends who told me if they'd never had sex in their life.. they would be just as happy... sex is soooooo NOT important to them....

 

I'm sure that some LS females feel the same.. but will never openly admit it..

[angie2443]

We girls all know women enjoy sex.

 

No.. I disagree... I know a LOT of women who do NOT enjoy sex at all... I was one of them with my 1st ex...

 

 

Was it you, or was the ex?

[Lizzie60]

Was it you, or was the ex?

 

It was me... Sex was good.. once it started.. I would get an orgasm each time.. he would make sure I was satisfied... but at one point.. I felt like I was having sex with my brother ... it was a sacrifice.. I just wanted to be left alone..

[Mr. Lucky]

I don't think I worded things too well. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that there are many things that have to be done. Bills have to be paid, things have to be cleaned, cars have to be repaired, children have to be fed, diapered, diciplined, clothed, played with, educated, etc. Sometimes it seems that once a man is married he depends on his wife to take care of all this. He doesn't take initiative. If his wife doesn't say anything, he'll be happy to sit on the couch all day and watch tv. I think when this happens, that feeling of bieng a team is lost. Maybe many men are clueless. Maybe they just know if the wife has to ask them for help, she's more likely to do it herself.

This is the part that throws me. I assume you meant they didn't get sex. It just feels to me that there is this equation that goes something like "doing dishes = sex". If you say that, it's like you're saying you don't really have to do the dishes and your wife really doesn't like sex, because having sex with you is a gift she gives you for the dishes.

I don't understand how one person posts these two different viewpoints ??? The husband that doesn't help is a jerk and the one that does help is just ... SOL?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mr. Lucky]

I think my wife has a number of reasons inside of her that have caused her to shut down. And I can accept that. What I cannot accept is the fact that she does not care enough about our children, our marriage, and me to find out WHY she does not want sex when she knows and has admitted to me that it is important to a marriage.

James, hope your frustration level isn't rising. Regardless of what happens, I've always been impressed with your commitment to your M...

 

Mr. Lucky

[angie2443]

It was me... Sex was good.. once it started.. I would get an orgasm each time.. he would make sure I was satisfied... but at one point.. I felt like I was having sex with my brother ... it was a sacrifice.. I just wanted to be left alone..

 

This is what I was thinking. You'd lost desire for your husband, but does that mean you lost desire for sex completely? If once you left your husband your sexually returned, then the problem was him, not you. This is what it sounds like to me. Maybe many of these women are simply not attracted to/in love with their husbands. I didn't think that could be true before, but I'm starting to see that as a good possibility.

[JamesM]

Maybe many of these women are simply not attracted to/in love with their husbands. I didn't think that could be true before, but I'm starting to see that as a good possibility.

 

It is a possibility.

 

Do you think when you get older that this could happen to you?

[angie2443]

I don't understand how one person posts these two different viewpoints ??? The husband that doesn't help is a jerk and the one that does help is just ... SOL?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

LOL! You are so funny! You misunderstood me. It doesn't matter. Really, my husband and I must be doing something right since we never hit the "dishes for sex" problem that so many on here have. I have sex with my husband because I enjoy him. I love him. The dishes don't even come into play.

 

Now, if he stopped helping around the house and expected me to do all the work, and if there wasn't a chance of this changing, I would divorce him. I can't live my life as some domestic slave and I can't live in complete filth. Does this make sense?

[mem11363]

James - it hurst to read your posts - man to man you sound like a guy if I could clone you twice I would happily marry both my teen daughters to you when they mature.

 

Let me throw something out to you. Part of edgy mascuilinity is letting your anger work for you in a way that a fully civilized guy will not. And I do NOT mean to use it in a physical way at all. What I do mean is that when I feel sufficiently provoked and I would get there super fast if our sex life got disrupted by "indifference", I would tell my wife of 20 years that she needs to be honest with me about what is going on. But more then that - I require a certain amount of sex - even if she is just doing it to show commitment to the marriage. I have never cheated. However I would quickly tell her - if you will not be honest with me so we can work together towards a solution then that means you don't really care about me. And that means that I am going to get a girlfriend. And that would not be a threat - it would be an open air statement of intent. I have made that statement to her one time. And it immediately had the desired effect.

 

What is the true "consequence" to your wife of denying you sex, and making no sincere effort to solve the problem?

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, I don't mean that I should be rewarded sexually for every chore I do. I do these things because they have to be done.

 

My point is...women use the reason for not having sex with their husbands because they do not help around the house....as you just did. How can guys who sit in front of the TV expect to have wives who will be interested in them sexually?

 

So, I point out that pleasing a husband who does these chores would be a great way to encourage him. And you respond with the "So you want sex as a reward?" line.

 

See...there is no winning.

[angie2443]

It is a possibility.

 

Do you think when you get older that this could happen to you?

 

I can't know the future. What I do know, is that I have a much better understanding of how relationships work and how to tend to them then I did in the past. This doesn't mean my husband's and my relationship is guarenteed to survive, it just means that we have a good shot at making it.

[mem11363]

That quote below is beautifully honest. I truly think that many women get to that point and to be fair once they do they are really in a jam. They don't want to ruin their family but if they say THAT to their husband it is likely game set match immediately.

 

 

It was me... Sex was good.. once it started.. I would get an orgasm each time.. he would make sure I was satisfied... but at one point.. I felt like I was having sex with my brother ... it was a sacrifice.. I just wanted to be left alone..

[JamesM]

James - it hurst to read your posts - man to man you sound like a guy if I could clone you twice I would happily marry both my teen daughters to you when they mature.

 

Thank you for the compliment, but at 45, I think they would need to mature for quite a few years. But I think I know what you mean...thank you.

 

However I would quickly tell her - if you will not be honest with me so we can work together towards a solution then that means you don't really care about me. And that means that I am going to get a girlfriend. And that would not be a threat - it would be an open air statement of intent. I have made that statement to her one time. And it immediately had the desired effect.

 

Been there and done that and bought the t-shirt. That happened three and a half years ago in April. You can even find a thread I started about the event. It DID have the desired effect, and the result was three months and a couple of weeks of great sex. She seemed to enjoy it tremendously. She came after me almost every time. It was as if she felt she was going to lose me.

 

And I think that WAS her motivation. After the idea of losing me faded, then so did the sex.

 

Ironically, this April, in a similar conversation but without me saying that she would lose me, she said that if she had her druthers, then we would never have sex, and if it was so important to me, then I should find it elsewhere.

 

Honestly, having given up hope of change, I am like John....do I follow her advice?

 

What is the true "consequence" to your wife of denying you sex, and making no sincere effort to solve the problem?

 

She loses the closeness of me as her husband and either her family breaks up or it becomes less happy. BUT...that depends on what I do.

 

John has a similar situation. His wife has all she needs...he doesn't. It appears that no one suffers but him. He is a prisoner in his own home.

[JamesM]

I can't know the future. What I do know, is that I have a much better understanding of how relationships work and how to tend to them then I did in the past. This doesn't mean my husband's and my relationship is guarenteed to survive, it just means that we have a good shot at making it.

 

Without being too pessimistic, I would have said the same. I read over 100 marriage books before marriage and during the first few years. I can give you all kind of advice. However, the one unknown that we cannot control is...our partner.

[Mr. Lucky]

Ironically, this April, in a similar conversation but without me saying that she would lose me, she said that if she had her druthers, then we would never have sex, and if it was so important to me, then I should find it elsewhere.

 

Honestly, having given up hope of change, I am like John....do I follow her advice?

Wow, sorry to hear this. Have you thought more about what you're going to do?

 

Mr. Lucky

[D-Lish]

It is a possibility.

 

Do you think when you get older that this could happen to you?

 

I can tell you that I got to the point with my ex-husband where I viewed him as a brother and not as a lover. We became so close and shared so many things that I shifted my perception.

 

I just couldn't have sex with him after that.

I loved him, and I would never have cheated on him- but I had hit that point where I stopped lusting after him. My sex drive was still intact- but I was usually taking care of that on my own when he wasn't around.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with getting older. I have lost my sex drive with most guys I have dated for more than 3 years. I enter that phase and it's done. I've been experiencing this since my first relationship- at 21.

 

I understand why my ex-husband cheated on me, I wasn't able to give him what he needed anymore.

 

The very sad reality is that there is nothing any drugs, therapists, Mc's, etc, could have helped me with.

 

I get into a new Relationship and I am like a bunny again.