Yet another guy stuck in a sexless marriage

[giotto]

I think the perception of the man as a husband changes during the course of the years... after 7 years we were together, my wife told me I wasn't "man enough" (or enough of a man... can't remember exactly) for her... do you know why? After she "sold" me an image of her as a strong and independent woman for years, apparently she always wanted a strong man, who earned lots of money and would "protect" her, instead of a nice man who worked from home, did the house chores cooked and looked after the kids... basically, I was emasculated. I don't know why she changed her mind. I never changed, I've always been like that. I should have left her then, but with 2 young kids, I could not... what a fool!

 

All this to say that, as many other female posters have mentioned, if your wife is denying sex to you it's because her perception of you, as a man, has changed. You are not sex material anymore. And that's why when the wives exit the marriage, their sex drive returns... they are with a man they find sexually and emotionally attractive, not the old boring doormat you have become...

 

I've been saying this for yonks... wives do get off their husbands eventually, especially the "nice type"... so, doing the chores like many of us here on LS won't help... it makes things worse. You have to show her you are a strong man, take a decision and stick to it. She won't do anything about it if she doesn't feel threatened, if she is not scared of losing her comfortable spot in life, her family, her nice house... and anyway, you might be able to get more sex from her, but you won't regain her respect for you, regardless of what you do... it's gone.

[carhill]

IMO, if you are of a certain personality type, for example, the work-at-home, domestic, erstwhile homebody, and she falls in love with you and marries you as you are, it's on her for her change of feelings and abrogation of commitment. As men, we need to stop taking responsibility for and making excuses for women's actions. They need to own them. Preferably alone, IMO, perhaps at the south pole. Responsibility was a often-used word in MC. I like that word

[giotto]

yes, carhill, but people do change in a relationship and are entitled to change. Surely, nobody wants to ruin a marriage, but what I find unacceptable is the lying... why not be honest? If you don't like or love your man anymore, please say so. I know it's difficult because of the family and the kids, but why make your husband's life a misery?

 

In my case I was told, but then she said she did not mean it and that it was, indeed, a very hurtful thing to say. I now know that she really meant it...

 

I think you are right about responsability. I was shocked when, some months ago, my wife told me she didn't love me like she used to anymore... a little lightbulb switched on in my brain... the "you are not man enough" speech of some years previously... I just wish she took her responsability and left me then. Despite all my faults and the emotional damage I have inflicted her all these years, for not understanding the real reason, and the pain she inflicted me, I still loved her. But my love is gone now...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

It was me... Sex was good.. once it started.. I would get an orgasm each time.. he would make sure I was satisfied... but at one point.. I felt like I was having sex with my brother ... it was a sacrifice.. I just wanted to be left alone..

 

 

You scare me.... I wonder if anyone can make you happy for a long time....

[carhill]

Here's the thing. Think hard about this. You accept your wife as she is. You accept that she will change. You don't necessarily like it, but accept it. Within the framework of acceptance, you love. Within the framework of love, you accept. You hurt; she hurts. Hurt is human. Both men and women feel it. Neither has the market cornered on hurt. Healthy men and women in relationships talk about their hurt and work through it, together.

 

You're simply not responsible for her feelings. She is. Any attempts to foist those feelings onto your back and make them your responsibility is unhealthy and unacceptable. As my dad used to say, she can pound sand Wish dear old dad was still around. A wise gentleman he was. He picked his woman well, much better than I.

[RedDevil66]

Sexual avoidance is not the same thing as a low libido. It is a differently thing entirely and while menopause messes a woman up it doesn't necessarily lead to an aversion to being touched. There is something else going on here and it is emotional. She can love you, but the idea of being touched by you probably feels intrusive. The isn't about being defiant or wanting to hurt you. She is probably hurting herself but doesn't understand what is going on inside of herself.

 

I have a theory on your situation. I believe the two of you have blurred your gender roles so much that she is no longer seeing you as a lover. You are dad. You are husband. You are a part of the family unit. You may have morphed into being more of a family member than a man. Think about it. You are a part of the clan... and most of this clan is non sexual.

 

You have to find a way to make her see you differently. You have to stop being neutered outside of the bedroom. Don't let her see you as one of the kids.

 

The guys who resort to online dating services are leading shallow and empty lives filled with nothing except false intimacy. In your case it would be a very dangerous thing to get involved in due to the fact that you are desiring intimacy. You'll only screw your head up. Read up on the subject. Seduce her outside of the bedroom by exerting your masculinity.

 

BEST and most rational reply in here and I agree x 1000000!

 

I also want to add, menopause can make a woman change totally. There is also andropause (male menopause) which most men will not come to terms with.

You may be fit and in great shape, but that doesn't mean your disposition or character has not take any odd twists and turns.

Going out for an escort is cheap. As blunt as this sounds, leave her or masturbate

[Lizzie60]

This is what I was thinking. You'd lost desire for your husband, but does that mean you lost desire for sex completely? If once you left your husband your sexually returned, then the problem was him, not you. This is what it sounds like to me. Maybe many of these women are simply not attracted to/in love with their husbands. I didn't think that could be true before, but I'm starting to see that as a good possibility.

 

 

Oh OK.. taken this way.. then yes it was him.. I had absolutely NO desire for him.. but at one point I was decided to stay with him.. 'till death do us part' because of our family.. his kids, mine.. we had grand-children (his daughters)... we were comfortable money-wise.. had a beautiful home.. etc.. but when he started to get insanely jealous.. that's when I decided I had to go.. it was becoming unbearable..

 

I guess he was feeling I was pulling out, he was 'more in love' than ever..

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I can tell you that I got to the point with my ex-husband where I viewed him as a brother and not as a lover. We became so close and shared so many things that I shifted my perception.

 

I just couldn't have sex with him after that.

I loved him, and I would never have cheated on him- but I had hit that point where I stopped lusting after him. My sex drive was still intact- but I was usually taking care of that on my own when he wasn't around.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with getting older. I have lost my sex drive with most guys I have dated for more than 3 years. I enter that phase and it's done. I've been experiencing this since my first relationship- at 21.

 

I understand why my ex-husband cheated on me, I wasn't able to give him what he needed anymore.

 

The very sad reality is that there is nothing any drugs, therapists, Mc's, etc, could have helped me with.

 

I get into a new Relationship and I am like a bunny again.

 

Like Lizzie60, another that scares me...... So let's applaud her for not cheating and hope there were no kids.... We have a serial monogamist, going from bf to bf, which I guess is not terrible, but when there is a marriage, children or another party who expects different, then it can lead to nasty results.

 

When it is a man, he is a playboy/player and unless wealthy/famous, you tend to look at him pretty derisively.... As a women, not sure what to think.

[Lizzie60]

I think the perception of the man as a husband changes during the course of the years... after 7 years we were together, my wife told me I wasn't "man enough" (or enough of a man... can't remember exactly) for her... do you know why? After she "sold" me an image of her as a strong and independent woman for years, apparently she always wanted a strong man, who earned lots of money and would "protect" her, instead of a nice man who worked from home, did the house chores cooked and looked after the kids... basically, I was emasculated. I don't know why she changed her mind. I never changed, I've always been like that. I should have left her then, but with 2 young kids, I could not... what a fool!

 

All this to say that, as many other female posters have mentioned, if your wife is denying sex to you it's because her perception of you, as a man, has changed. You are not sex material anymore. And that's why when the wives exit the marriage, their sex drive returns... they are with a man they find sexually and emotionally attractive, not the old boring doormat you have become...

 

I've been saying this for yonks... wives do get off their husbands eventually, especially the "nice type"... so, doing the chores like many of us here on LS won't help... it makes things worse. You have to show her you are a strong man, take a decision and stick to it. She won't do anything about it if she doesn't feel threatened, if she is not scared of losing her comfortable spot in life, her family, her nice house... and anyway, you might be able to get more sex from her, but you won't regain her respect for you, regardless of what you do... it's gone.

 

As depressing as this sounds.. I think you're spot on.. (bold part)

 

Once the love is gone..it's gone.. and I honestly believe that no MC will help... you cannot.. IMO.. love again once it's gone.

 

My first ex was doing his share in the house.. maybe he was doing it to have more sex.. I don't know.. but the thing is no matter how much he would do.. I still didn't feel any desire for him...

 

I have to disagree about 'not being man enough' I don't think it has anything to do with 'being man enough or not'.... you can be a strong man.. but she might still eventually lose her sexual interest in you. It's more than that..

 

Why do you think that I do not believe in long term relationship or marriage anymore .. because I sincerely believe that no one can be faithful or love one person all their life..

 

If they do.. then one person is sacrificing his/her happiness.. for either their partner, their kids, or to their comfortable financial life.. it's as simple as that in my mind...

[giotto]

well, it is depressing and you are right that love changes and often evaporates... I can say it this lightly because I've had time to get over the shock of it... my love evaporating, that is... many couples stay together because of the kids... we are one of those couples. We still have great affection for each other, after 24 years together. It's very difficult to let go. But there is also much resentment, at least from me. I don't know about my wife, because she doesn't like to talk about "personal" stuff. Which is why our marriage went wrong... I knew she had issues when we got married, but I thought it would be ok, somehow.... I was wrong...

 

Nevertheless, at least we managed to solve the "sexless" marriage issue, which is something...

[mem11363]

This differentiation between low libido and sexual avoidance is brilliant. Before we ask the desperate lads who are frozen out in the bedroom to pursue re-esatablishment of gender roles I think it is worth noting that this is an exceptionally difficult thing to do. For many reasons.

 

The first being that the man will need to assert his edgy masculinity for quite some time and HOPE her desire returns and durning that time completely mask his desire for her. Because I bet the women who have already written here about their historical examples of "losing desire" for a mate will tell you that when their men showed interest - directly or indirectly, the women felt uncomfortable/anxious. So we are asking the men to be more masculine during a time in which they are being totally rejected sexually. But for a man - part of feeling masculine is feeling desired. A big part.

 

My marriage has not lacked sexual frequency. But for long periods of time my wifes baseline (meaning just what she feels from being in the same house) desire for me is often so low that it is demoralizing. She does seem to get aroused when we have sex - and she is "willing" to let me initiate even when she feels "no heat" just because she truly believes that she is the "model 1950's housewife LOL" and that is her responsibility in our marriage.

 

I do remember one interesting thing though. I came back from a consutling job in Indonesia/Malaysia. My hosts had spent the whole trip trying to get me to enjoy the local courtesans. Anyway when I described the situation to my wife I said it something like this. "Day after day I kept saying the same thing - I mean sure I love a good massage - but as for the happy ending that they kept offering me, well I realized I wasn't saying "no" to them, I was saying "yes" to you and our marriage.

 

So I painted this entirely accurate picture of these attractive women running their hands all over me, and then asking me if I wanted something "more", and me saying "no". That did do something to my wifes perception of me. Something positive.

 

And when I went back for the next trip she never mentioned the massage stuff - though she made a major effort to have sex with me most nights during the week before I left.

 

 

BEST and most rational reply in here and I agree x 1000000!

 

I also want to add, menopause can make a woman change totally. There is also andropause (male menopause) which most men will not come to terms with.

You may be fit and in great shape, but that doesn't mean your disposition or character has not take any odd twists and turns.

Going out for an escort is cheap. As blunt as this sounds, leave her or masturbate

[Lizzie60]

And when I went back for the next trip she never mentioned the massage stuff - though she made a major effort to have sex with me most nights during the week before I left.

 

Yabutt.. I think she was fooling herself.. sex is like food.. you can eat all you want, till you get sick.. but two days later.. you're still hungry...

[JackJack]

JMO, I think there are some people who have no business being married, or even in a relationship for that matter. WHY? I think its just to much work for some. If there is no work from either party, no effort even, or no desire too even try, then don't be in one. Those are the people left better off to just date or bed hop. No commitments, no emotional attachements and no work.

[JohnDoe1957]

Thanks to everyone who posted. Those were some interesting comments (including the ones that took shots at me for somehow being inadequate).

 

Let me see if I can summarize some of the more popular options.

 

1. Divorce. Yes, this is a viable option I have seriously considered. However, I would like to use it only as a last resort.

 

2. Counseling. This is actually on the top of my list. While I am convinced that it is largely due to menopause, I am not blind to the fact that I may be contributing in some way. However, being too close to the situation, I would like impartial guidance.

 

3. Discrete dating. Sure, I've considered it. After all, I'm still healthy and viable. Several posters suggested masturbation. Well, I'm one of those guys that needs a psychological connection along with physical intimacy. That's why hookers and phone sex just won't cut it. I've had several email conversations with women who share my situation. They're lonely but aren't ready to give up on their relationships just yet.

 

And don't forget that sometimes bonding with another person who shares your situation can be cathartic. It can also give you the strength to resolve your own problems. That's one of the reasons why support groups work so well.

 

4. Leave sleeping dogs lie. Maybe through professional guidance and coping strategies, I can find a way to live with my situation. After all, no harm, no foul, right?

 

Thanks to everyone who posted. I'm going to go back through the posts so far and tally the various ideas to see how strongly the group feels about the various options posted so far.

 

Warm regards,

John Doe

[mem11363]

Is it possible that your wife sees you as too safe? Like as soon as she felt 3 years ago that she had for lack of a better term - domesticated you - she lost interest again.

 

The only time my wife ever said she did not want any more sex I immediately said - no problem I will get a girlfriend and not trouble you with my needs any further. And my end of day she was apologizing. But that was just a fight, not a comment made during a period of sexual starvation.

 

I take my business trips to Asia where women hit on me all the time. I know this does something to my wife. She feels just a little bit threatened which I honestly think turns her on at some level.

 

So what if you started going on dates? Not hiding it. If she ignores it. Then take a lover. If she steps up - figure out how to be permanently wild.

 

Are you really willing to accept 30 years of celibacy?

 

 

Thank you for the compliment, but at 45, I think they would need to mature for quite a few years. But I think I know what you mean...thank you.

 

 

 

Been there and done that and bought the t-shirt. That happened three and a half years ago in April. You can even find a thread I started about the event. It DID have the desired effect, and the result was three months and a couple of weeks of great sex. She seemed to enjoy it tremendously. She came after me almost every time. It was as if she felt she was going to lose me.

 

And I think that WAS her motivation. After the idea of losing me faded, then so did the sex.

 

Ironically, this April, in a similar conversation but without me saying that she would lose me, she said that if she had her druthers, then we would never have sex, and if it was so important to me, then I should find it elsewhere.

 

Honestly, having given up hope of change, I am like John....do I follow her advice?

 

 

 

She loses the closeness of me as her husband and either her family breaks up or it becomes less happy. BUT...that depends on what I do.

 

John has a similar situation. His wife has all she needs...he doesn't. It appears that no one suffers but him. He is a prisoner in his own home.

[mem11363]

Physically true. But wife makes the effort to make sex great for me - so I would have a severe guilt complex if I cheated on her. Which is why I have been able to resist temptation over the years.

 

Most weeks we connect a couple times a week, but on any given night if I ask, she obliges. With that said she has a low libido. So I start slow and stretch out the foreplay until she says the magic words. Afterwards I always say the same thing. "Thank you for loving me". Because if she didn't love me, I am not so sure she would have sex with me. Or to be more precise, I think she would have sex with me way, way less. So I wish she was more "aroused" just by being around me. And I also feel very loved emotionally by the kindness and generosity she shows me by connecting with me in spite of her low desire level.

 

 

And when I went back for the next trip she never mentioned the massage stuff - though she made a major effort to have sex with me most nights during the week before I left.

 

Yabutt.. I think she was fooling herself.. sex is like food.. you can eat all you want, till you get sick.. but two days later.. you're still hungry...

[JohnDoe1957]

I'm not exactly "domesticated" and she knows it. :-)

 

A couple of months ago, I broached the subject of no sex with her. I let her know that if she chose not to have sex that was her business, but it wasn't right to make a unilateral decision like that for both of us.

 

A considerably heated discussion followed. When I confronted her with us only having sex once a year for the last three years, she genuinely believed it had been more often than that. I reminded her that, statistically, healthy couples in our age group average twice a week. Of course, that didn't fly well either.

 

I encouraged her to go see a doctor. She's afraid that the menopause cures are linked to breast cancer, which runs in her family. I suggested us getting some counseling and she completely broke down in tears.

 

Eventually, I let her know in no uncertain terms that I wasn't going to force her to have sex with me if she truly didn't want to but that she couldn't expect me not to "outsource". I was angry when I said it and I probably shouldn't have dropped a bomb like that quite that way but things just can't continue this way.

 

We've dropped into a cycle of being civil while ignoring the elephant in the room. We still share the same bed and there's even occasional cuddling on weekend mornings. Unfortunately, there's always a barrier. She makes sure that certain areas are blocked. If I get a little too "friendly", she makes sure I only "play the public course". (I'm not a golfer but one of my buddies is. He said his wife does the same thing and she came up with it as a way of keeping him in check. Apparently he's only allowed to access the parts of his wife that can be shown in public. By the way, he is openly engaged in discrete dating and highly recommends it.)

 

Thanks for the continued advice. It really is helping.

[RedDevil66]

I encouraged her to go see a doctor. She's afraid that the menopause cures are linked to breast cancer, which runs in her family. .

 

Menopause cure? There is no cure for this DREADED time of life. Estrogen or any other hormone RARELY works and it takes years to get the right mix of hormones to even ward off the horrible side effects of menopause.

 

It's a bad time in her life, all the therapy in the world will not make her MENTALpause go away.

 

I know, I'm in the throws of perimenopause and I've seen one of the best hormones specialists in my city and still, I just have to let it pass.

 

My libido is low but I would not want sex only once year.

 

Maybe she's just not sexually attracted to you? That is also a possibility

But cheating on her to get what you want is pathetic and weak

[mem11363]

Only two more comments and then I will try to shut up.

1. I do not agree with people who say your options are make it work with your wife or have empty sex. Many people who have an affair have a true full blow relationship with that person. Especially if your kids are grown and you have more free time. Instead of being out with your buddies you are having a delightful evening with a woman you like/love who is really into you.

 

2. As much as I deeply love my wife - for her to blow off the ONE need I am totally dependent on her for would be the ultimate insult. And so an affair would simply be my way of giving her a choice of having all the "good stuff" with me - without the part she does not want.

 

How can a wife honestly object to an affair when she truly does not want sex with you anymore? It seems hatefully selfish.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not exactly "domesticated" and she knows it. :-) For example, I still hang out with my friends and do not ask her permission.

 

A couple of months ago, I broached the subject with her. I let her know that if she chose not to have sex that was her business, but it wasn't right to make a unilateral decision like that for both of us.

 

A considerably heated discussion followed. When I confronted her with us only having sex once a year for the last three years, she genuinely believed it had been more often than that. I reminded her that, statistically, healthy couples in our age group average twice a week. Of course, that didn't fly well either.

 

I encouraged her to go see a doctor. She's afraid that the menopause cures are linked to breast cancer, which runs in her family. I suggested us getting some counseling and she completely broke down in tears.

 

Eventually, I let her know in no uncertain terms that I wasn't going to force her to have sex with me if she truly didn't want to but that she couldn't expect me not to "outsource". I was angry when I said it and I probably shouldn't have dropped a bomb like that quite that way but things just can't continue this way.

 

We've dropped into a cycle of being civil while ignoring the elephant in the room. We still share the same bed and there's even occasional cuddling on weekend mornings. Unfortunately, there's always a barrier. She makes sure that certain areas are blocked. If I get a little too "friendly", she makes sure I only "play the public course". (I'm not a golfer but one of my buddies is. He said his wife does the same thing and she came up with it as a way of keeping him in check. Apparently he's only allowed to access the parts of his wife that can be shown in public. By the way, he is openly engaged in discrete dating and highly recommends it.)

 

Thanks for the continued advice. It really is helping.

[RedDevil66]

Only two more comments and then I will try to shut up.

1. I do not agree with people who say your options are make it work with your wife or have empty sex. Many people who have an affair have a true full blow relationship with that person. Especially if your kids are grown and you have more free time. Instead of being out with your buddies you are having a delightful evening with a woman you like/love who is really into you.

 

2. As much as I deeply love my wife - for her to blow off the ONE need I am totally dependent on her for would be the ultimate insult. And so an affair would simply be my way of giving her a choice of having all the "good stuff" with me - without the part she does not want.

 

How can a wife honestly object to an affair when she truly does not want sex with you anymore? It seems hatefully selfish.

 

Yes and cheating is not selfish at all.......ugh!

 

Men and their egos, it's pretty funny!

[Thaddeus]

Yes and cheating is not selfish at all.......ugh!

 

Men and their egos, it's pretty funny!

I don't disagree that cheating is selfish.

 

But how is that different from a woman denying her man intimacy? Is that not also selfish on her part?

 

How come she gets a free pass, but he doesn't?

[RedDevil66]

I don't disagree that cheating is selfish.

 

But how is that different from a woman denying her man intimacy? Is that not also selfish on her part?

 

How come she gets a free pass, but he doesn't?

 

No, it's not selfish if there is a legit reason.

When I was sick, I was not having sex with my boyfriend, and while being sick, I hit premenopause, was I being selfish not wanting to have sex? Nope!

He was being selfish wanting sex.

If my boyfriend cheated on me b/c I was down and out, well that makes him a scum bag. If he wanted sex like it was the darm air he breathed, then by all means, says TATA to me and go find someone else.

[mem11363]

This thread started - you have a guy who has a wife who just does NOT want to have sex with him. Ever. This is not about low libido. Nor menopause. She has likely been sexually averse for a good decade and just slowed the train down gradually to avoid a derailment.

 

Last summer wife had an "inflammation" lasted 2+ months. During that time she routinely offered to please me orally. I only took her up on that once. Because it is not emotionally satisfying for me to have one way sex. But I gave up self gratification years ago - so at about the 6 week point I laughed and said if you really truly don't mind. Other then that one time I just said the same thing. Baby, you are the one in pain here, this is not about me. I will just wait until you feel better whenever that is. And other then that my behavior towards here was the same - same amount of attention/affection etc. Not looking for a medal - this is just decent human partner behavior nothing more, nothing less. I am just saying that if she said, hey menopause hit, don't feel like sex, which equal we are not going to have sex for some number of years my response would likely be.

 

So sorry to hear that - hey - my midlife crisis just hit and I am depressed, so please don't ask me for any emotional support for the next few years because I have to worry about my needs and don't have any room for yours.

 

But she would never do that because low libido simply means this. It takes more effort from your partner to arouse you and it takes more willingness on your part to let them arouse you. But at some level you truly want to have desire/passion and arousal so you find a way, even if frequency does go down.

 

Oh - and it is not cheating if you do it in the open. It is simply polyamory. Cheating is about lies and deceit. Which almost ALL sexually averse people engage in with their partners in the early stages while they are steadily conditioning (this is true - and it is sick and sadistic - but effective with many people) their spouses to accept a sexless marriage. If sexually averse people did their thing:

- Like a light switch (plenty of frequency to none in a short time) and

- Told their partners (I cringe at the thought of sex with you and pray that I don't ever have to do it again)

 

Then there would be far, far fewer victims of this abuse.

 

No, it's not selfish if there is a legit reason.

When I was sick, I was not having sex with my boyfriend, and while being sick, I hit premenopause, was I being selfish not wanting to have sex? Nope!

He was being selfish wanting sex.

If my boyfriend cheated on me b/c I was down and out, well that makes him a scum bag. If he wanted sex like it was the darm air he breathed, then by all means, says TATA to me and go find someone else.

[Thaddeus]

No, it's not selfish if there is a legit reason.

When I was sick, I was not having sex with my boyfriend, and while being sick, I hit premenopause, was I being selfish not wanting to have sex? Nope!

He was being selfish wanting sex.

If my boyfriend cheated on me b/c I was down and out, well that makes him a scum bag. If he wanted sex like it was the darm air he breathed, then by all means, says TATA to me and go find someone else.

I have no argument about the sickness thing. Hey, when I'm under the weather, I'm not interested in sex either. (Fortunately, I'm "disgustingly healthy" according to my doc, so I only get ill very rarely.)

 

It's when one party continually gets turned down, over and over and over again, without reason that it becomes selfish.

 

Was your partner being selfish when he wanted sex when you were sick? Well, I wouldn't use the term 'selfish,' but I would suggest that his timing probably wasn't very good.

 

But having needs is not selfish, whether those needs are sexual or emotional or anything else.

 

Would it be appropriate, then, by your logic to assume that when you have emotional needs, they too are selfish?

 

Why is it that if a man has sexual needs that aren't being met by his partner, he's selfish, but it's if a woman has emotional needs that aren't being met by her partner, that's different?

[Woggle]

I would do what my barber did. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t199553/

 

Don't lie to her and go behind her back but her upfront that if she doesn't want to touch you that is her right but you will no longer live like a catholic priest. It worked wonders for his marriage because she respected him for putting his foot down. The more you try to please her and accomodate her needs the worse it will get. Many women will frown on what my barber but they can't argue with the results.