Yet another guy stuck in a sexless marriage

[jasminetea]

I can answer that, and you are correct.

 

There are more benefits to marriage than just sex. However, since it is lacking, then I post here searching for answers. Surprisingly, it is not my focus all day.

 

James, why are you (and others in a similar situation to yours) here searching for answers when it seems the only answers there are, are - get thee both to counselling or get a divorce? And you know them already.

 

Its a genuine, concerned question.

[giotto]

James, why are you (and others in a similar situation to yours) here searching for answers when it seems the only answers there are, are - get thee both to counselling or get a divorce? And you know them already.

 

Its a genuine, concerned question.

 

for me, it's the children. I don't know about James's situation exactly, but we seem to get on quite well with the wives... the only element missing is the sex. So, it's hard to separate over sex, when the rest is ok. Having said that, we (myself and my wife) went to counselling a few times, got even more depressed about the situation, separated for a while and then compromised and got back together. I must say we have other issues that will probably lead me to divorce my dear wife in the future... but that's another story!

[carhill]

Getting along with a wife who doesn't desire sex is no different than getting along with a female friend who doesn't want a romance. It's really no different. You're sacrificing your feelings at the altar of the woman. How emasculating. Pay the child support and alimony and lose her

[EnigmasMuse]

I couldn't stay in a relationship for the kids. And as matter of fact, I didn't.

 

I'm sure there are many other reasons why one stays as well, but sometimes people do stay for just the kids. I believe staying for the kids teaches the kids this how a relationship is supposed to be. You hang in until you can get out. Or, this is normal etc. To ME divorcing far outweighs that of staying in something not to healthy. I think kids can suffer from divorce, but I also think they can suffer worse from parents staying together. I think sometime people think they are doing right by their kids by staying but really I think its is a disservice to them.

 

To me there is no reason two people can't be civil, love their kids, be with their kids do things with them, etc, etc, and the two parents not be together if its just not working. But that's just me.

[jasminetea]

for me, it's the children. I don't know about James's situation exactly, but we seem to get on quite well with the wives... the only element missing is the sex. So, it's hard to separate over sex, when the rest is ok. Having said that, we (myself and my wife) went to counselling a few times, got even more depressed about the situation, separated for a while and then compromised and got back together. I must say we have other issues that will probably lead me to divorce my dear wife in the future... but that's another story!

 

No, you misunderstand - why are you here asking for answers when you know what the answers are already?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I couldn't stay in a relationship for the kids. And as matter of fact, I didn't.

 

I'm sure there are many other reasons why one stays as well, but sometimes people do stay for just the kids. I believe staying for the kids teaches the kids this how a relationship is supposed to be. You hang in until you can get out. Or, this is normal etc. To ME divorcing far outweighs that of staying in something not to healthy. I think kids can suffer from divorce, but I also think they can suffer worse from parents staying together. I think sometime people think they are doing right by their kids by staying but really I think its is a disservice to them.

 

To me there is no reason two people can't be civil, love their kids, be with their kids do things with them, etc, etc, and the two parents not be together if its just not working. But that's just me.

 

I agree, especially as the children grow older. Often sadly, children are the excuse/crutch to stay in an unhappy marriage. Frankly in their teens I don't see an issue in divorce, if civil and well handled.

 

Now the question here and in this and many posts is how important is sex in the overall picture. I can say I do not get enough sex (see my multiple posts), but it is no where near the point it is the overriding issue in our marriage.

 

Now if it was 2-6X's per year (or as in the OP 1X/yr) I'd demand a resolution (divorce obviously being the end game).

 

The good news is while we do fight way too much, we also do love each other and the fights are not major, just too often.

 

As for Giotto, I am truly perplexed at how he is about his situation. He has a wife he is slowly falling out of love with, she seems to somewhat resent him and made emasculating comments too, but they do have sex as their agreement, and she really likes it.

 

Not sure what to make of it.

 

Below is a letter from Today's Ask Ellie column, that is more then apropo....

 

Question

I’m 39, mother of two; I met my husband in my early 20s. I “learned” to love him as he’s a great husband and excellent father.

Two years ago I began an affair with a co-worker, despite that he frequently treated me badly by lying and rejecting me sometimes. Still, I enjoyed the passion and excitement.

My husband discovered the affair and was devastated but willing to work on our marriage because he still loves me and wanted our children to have the best life possible.

I continued seeing the other man until the affair ended this year… with me heartbroken and depressed.

I don’t love my husband. We haven’t had sex since the affair started, and I still won’t let him touch me. I stay because I’m afraid of what separation will do to my kids. But every night in bed is like sleeping with a stranger.

He says he wants to be “a hero for the kids” so won’t go out with other women as I’ve encouraged him to do.

I don’t know how long we can keep this up.

 

- Devastated Still

 

 

Get a grip on your own runaway emotions, and the destructive charade you’re playing out in your home.

You and your husband both have raising children to consider, and should realize it’s not best done by martyred mothers and desperate fathers who are strangers in bed.

Have the courage of your convictions: You felt free to have an affair and expose your children to that potential scandal. Summon the dignity now to live a truth, not a lie, and decide to either stay as a wife – getting appropriate counselling on how to re-connect as a couple - or separate.

It is NOT a “best possible life” for children to be in an environment such as you describe – filled with rejection, tensions, and regrets, which will only get worse over time, and on both sides.

If you think it’s “okay” for Hubby to now have affairs, while you stay “for the children,” you’ve got a distorted view of what a healthy home life is all about.

[giotto]

No, you misunderstand - why are you here asking for answers when you know what the answers are already?

 

I know the answers now, I didn't before...

[giotto]

As for Giotto, I am truly perplexed at how he is about his situation. He has a wife he is slowly falling out of love with, she seems to somewhat resent him and made emasculating comments too, but they do have sex as their agreement, and she really likes it.

 

Not sure what to make of it.

 

Neither do I... that''s women for you...

 

jokes apart, she cares for me (although she might not love me anymore) and after 25 years together she is prepared to have sex with me to keep the family united... I think (I think...) it all boils down to this...

[65tr6]

and after 25 years together she is prepared to have sex with me to keep the family united... I think (I think...) it all boils down to this...

 

does she like the sex ? don't have to answer if you don't want to. If she does not or is neutral, do you care ?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

does she like the sex ? don't have to answer if you don't want to. If she does not or is neutral, do you care ?

 

Because I am a busybody, I am quite sure Giotto has said she likes it, orgasms and the whole nine yards, but they still are not functioning as a healthy couple..... Almost a so-called bootycall per se.....

[giotto]

does she like the sex ? don't have to answer if you don't want to. If she does not or is neutral, do you care ?

 

yep, "sex encounters" are always very good and actually getting better... another mystery to me...

[angie2443]

yep, "sex encounters" are always very good and actually getting better... another mystery to me...

 

This is good, isn't it?

[mem11363]

The comments below are just as true for male sexual refusers as female. I am just using Giotto as my example because his situation is "real".

 

It is healthy for Giotto to assert himself and demand a certain minimum level of RESPECT for his needs. If his wife chooses to avoid telling him why she avoided sex for all those years that is her choice to continue being deceptive and harms her - not him.

 

It would be toxic for Giotto to indulge in a never ending series of "pretend" conversations with his wife and maybe a MC, where they both/all simulate forward progress for years while she continues to parasitically consume his heart, his self esteem and his soul.

 

QUOTE: Sexual refusers and spouse beaters both do the same amount of damage in the long run. The only difference is the refusers bruises and injuries are all on the "inside".

 

 

Because I am a busybody, I am quite sure Giotto has said she likes it, orgasms and the whole nine yards, but they still are not functioning as a healthy couple..... Almost a so-called bootycall per se.....

[giotto]

This is good, isn't it?

 

very good! But sex has always been good, anyway...

[JohnDoe1957]

Getting along with a wife who doesn't desire sex is no different than getting along with a female friend who doesn't want a romance. It's really no different. You're sacrificing your feelings at the altar of the woman. How emasculating. Pay the child support and alimony and lose her

 

Absolutely! Getting along with a wife in a sexless marriage is no more fulfilling than living with a friend. Don't we have romantic relationships for more than just friendship?

 

The other problem is that it is much easier to go from being friends to lovers than it is to go back. There are two distinct lines in a relationship. The first line to cross is the first romantic kiss. I have a few female friends I've met mostly through work (yes, my wife knows them all). When I have lunch or dinner with one of them, we greet with a hug and usually part with a peck on the cheek or lightly on the lips. However, I would never consider kissing any of them in a romantic way and they feel the same.

 

Once you cross the romantic kiss line, you just can't go back no matter what. Eventually the romantic kiss will become light fooling around in the restaurant parking lot and at some point you both will cross the worst line... intercourse. And it will escalate. At some point, lunches will become clandestine quickies in local hotel rooms or weekend "business trips".

 

Once you have intercourse with a friend, that changes everything. If you both decide it was a mistake, you'll feel weird every time you get together. It's like the proverbial "elephant in the room". It'll eventually destroy your friendship.

 

So, as I close out for tonight, we need to remember that the whole reason we get romantically involved with someone is to have everything that goes with it, including the physical intimacy that we biologically and psychologically require.

 

Otherwise, we could get along with just being friends.

[JamesM]

So, as I close out for tonight, we need to remember that the whole reason we get romantically involved with someone is to have everything that goes with it, including the physical intimacy that we biologically and psychologically require.

 

Otherwise, we could get along with just being friends.

 

As one who totally understands your situation, well said.

[mem11363]

Have any of you guys done something "calculated" to get the point across about how bad it is to feel "unloved"?

 

For example, on birthday or anniversary or Christmas, give a card and a quick peck on the cheek and nothing else. Total blowoff other then that. So not the "hostile" nothing, but the "empty gesture".

 

Because you are all totally within your rights to do that, and if confronted to say "I didn't want to get you a gift or take you to dinner" I just did not have the desire. And if pushed turn it around. Just ask "Are you saying you think you are entitled to a gift because it is xxx"?

 

Because the truth is they are entitled, it is a normal expression of love in marriage. And NOT doing it is a denial of a basic expression of love. But if I was being deprived of MY physical entitlement there is no way in hell I would be:

- Giving gifts/dinners, etc or

- Taking my wife on a vacation, much less a GIANT vacation that means I will eventually retire months later due to the cost - unless I knew that the vacation was going to be really fun for ME to.

 

When we do family reunions I nicely suggest an agreement before we go - because otherwise she stays up until just before going to sleep every night with her 3 sisters and we have zero sex for the week. So I tell her before hand - that if she takes care of me just before we leave and once mid week - I am happy with that. But in the past we have had some conflict over her blowing me off for the whole week, and I just don't find that acceptable. If she were to say "no or I am not sure I am willing to do that, or I am not sure I am going to be in the mood". I would simply say, "I can't enjoy a vacation where I am the only one in the family whose core needs are being ignored - I likely wouldn't be good company". And my wife can be stubborn - but I can tell you this - if I started planning my vacations with friends without her - that would make her really anxious - enough so to make an effort to address whatever issues I had raised. Plus it is humiliating to have your man blow off your family event.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As one who totally understands your situation, well said.

[giotto]

When we do family reunions I nicely suggest an agreement before we go - because otherwise she stays up until just before going to sleep every night with her 3 sisters and we have zero sex for the week. So I tell her before hand - that if she takes care of me just before we leave and once mid week - I am happy with that. But in the past we have had some conflict over her blowing me off for the whole week, and I just don't find that acceptable. If she were to say "no or I am not sure I am willing to do that, or I am not sure I am going to be in the mood". I would simply say, "I can't enjoy a vacation where I am the only one in the family whose core needs are being ignored - I likely wouldn't be good company". And my wife can be stubborn - but I can tell you this - if I started planning my vacations with friends without her - that would make her really anxious - enough so to make an effort to address whatever issues I had raised. Plus it is humiliating to have your man blow off your family event.

 

 

my wife does that with her 2 sisters, but she would just say "I'm not your sex slave, you know?"...

[jennie-jennie]

"QUOTE: Sexual refusers and spouse beaters both do the same amount of damage in the long run. The only difference is the refusers bruises and injuries are all on the "inside"."

 

I always felt like the odd one, being a female who was not getting enough sex at home. I love that quote, it underlines the severity of the damage done to you when your partner refuses you sex.

 

I usually state that my ex SO had a lower sex drive than I, but that is not the entire truth. His sex drive is twisted to the point where he'd rather masturbate than have sex with his partner. That is just a killer for a relationship. Sure, go ahead and masturbate as a complement to your sex life, but not instead of intercourse.

 

I was so damaged by my SO's sex refusal, my MM felt like he was walking on a mine field trying to rebuild my trust towards men. His patience and love healed many of my inner wounds.

 

Interestingly enough, I did not realize how wounded I was until I was in this new relationship with an emotionally stable and healthy man. It is like when the war is over and you still react like it is going on, you realize the wounds are inside you.

[mem11363]

I bet you this, if we had the victims in these sexless marriages write down there stories - and we had the "refusers" write down their stories this is what would happen:

1. The victims would make the same types of excuses for their refusers that victims of spousal abuse/violence make for theirs. And the victims would repeat many of the lies that their refusers tell them, which is just what the victims of domestic violence do.

 

And if you scored these people on a self esteem scale you would find that they have awful self esteem, which is one big reason they don't leave the marriage, because they don't truly believe they deserve better. Their refusers lies, tricks and manipulations have slowly sucked the love, confidence and spirit from them to the point where they have terrible trouble ending it.

 

This one guy wrote in - his youngest kids are in college now and he is still claiming to "stay" for them. No way - he is afraid to leave. His refuser has destroyed his spirit over a period of almost 20 years.

 

2. The refusers would lie about the frequency and severity of their behavior which is EXACTLY what spouse beaters do, and they would blame the victim relentlessly just like spousal abusers.

 

Spousal abuse and spousal refuse even rhyme. They really are sickeningly similar. All it takes is a strong willed spouse who is willing to flat out lie, coupled with a very trusting spouse who is somewhat conflict avoidant. Thats it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"QUOTE: Sexual refusers and spouse beaters both do the same amount of damage in the long run. The only difference is the refusers bruises and injuries are all on the "inside"."

 

I always felt like the odd one, being a female who was not getting enough sex at home. I love that quote, it underlines the severity of the damage done to you when your partner refuses you sex.

 

I usually state that my ex SO had a lower sex drive than I, but that is not the entire truth. His sex drive is twisted to the point where he'd rather masturbate than have sex with his partner. That is just a killer for a relationship. Sure, go ahead and masturbate as a complement to your sex life, but not instead of intercourse.

 

I was so damaged by my SO's sex refusal, my MM felt like he was walking on a mine field trying to rebuild my trust towards men. His patience and love healed many of my inner wounds.

 

Interestingly enough, I did not realize how wounded I was until I was in this new relationship with an emotionally stable and healthy man. It is like when the war is over and you still react like it is going on, you realize the wounds are inside you.

[Woggle]

As much as it sucks to have a spouse that won't touch you it does not compare to being beaten.

[jasminetea]

I know the answers now, I didn't before...

 

That's what I was getting at

 

So do you and JamesM have different questions now?

 

You seem to be repeating the questions that have already been answered. So why be here, why ask them again? Seriously. Do you think its a way of building up the steam to follow through on one of the answers - leave or insist on counselling - or do you find it a way of venting frustration away from your wife and so enable you to remain in the marriage? What are you getting from this place?

 

I'm interested as I'd like to understand more about what helps and doesn't help you.

[JackJack]

I would think there is no comparison to being refused sex and being beaten, none at all. I understand the concept of, being hurt by both in some way or another, but still no real comparison.

[giotto]

That's what I was getting at

 

So do you and JamesM have different questions now?

 

You seem to be repeating the questions that have already been answered. So why be here, why ask them again? Seriously. Do you think its a way of building up the steam to follow through on one of the answers - leave or insist on counselling - or do you find it a way of venting frustration away from your wife and so enable you to remain in the marriage? What are you getting from this place?

 

I'm interested as I'd like to understand more about what helps and doesn't help you.

 

I think, for me, it's mainly venting but also, being able to talk about it, helps me seeing things more clearly... it's a sort of cathartic experience, if you know what I mean... I'm also here because I like to help people, offering support with the little I know about relationships... I think when people confront themselves with other people's experiences they can get a clearer understanding of their situation, so, sometimes, repetita juvant, as the Romans used to say...

[JamesM]

As much as it sucks to have a spouse that won't touch you it does not compare to being beaten.

 

I agree 100%.

 

As much as I miss the regularity of passionate sex, I do not think I could ever say it is as bad as being beaten. While I understand that it may cause me resentment, anger and frustration, it does not mean I do not enjoy coming home and relaxing with my wife and children. And while it does mean our marriage isn't as strong as it could be, it does not mean that either of us lives in fear of setting off the other person who may cause physical damage.