Are men really stuck in sexless marriages, or do they just want sex with younger wome

[mem11363]

65tr6

I don't think turning down mercy sex turns her on. It might avoid "turning her off". Meaning if I accepted mercy sex all the time she might start to feel resentful like she did much earlier in our marriage when I acted like sex was my daily God given right.

 

BUT - some mercy sex is just a function of mismatched drive levels. On day five, I will say "humor me"? with a smile. And she will either say "sure" or "no humor required - I want you too". Except that if I can tell something is "wrong" in her head - which is not frequent - but it happens - then I absolutely keep my desire to myself until she is ok.

 

Turn Ons for my wife:

1. Any and all demonstrations of power/skill:

- General problem solving including fixing stuff that is broken

- Conflict resolution

- Selling new projects at work

2. Alpha interactions with the kids

- Helping them/teaching them

- Disciplining them in a firm and mature way

3. Direct interactions with her where I assert myself effectively - sometimes after I say - that is "not" happening and then explain she says something like "am I a total bitc*"?

4. Risk taking behavior

5. Physical fitness

 

Turn Offs for my wife:

1. Weak/passive behavior

2. Conflict avoidant (= weak/passive) behavior

3. Dressing/acting nerdy (I have learned not to)

 

I had an issue with passive/conflict avoidant behavior combined with a lack of fitness in years 18/19 of marriage. This did not stop our sex life, it did slow the frequency to the bare minimum I could tolerate (every 5 days) and it was ALL mercy sex which was degrading.

 

Eventually I fixed MY problems a bit over a year ago and ;)

 

 

 

Very very true in my case too.....Crap, I feel like I am letting all my secrets out.

 

My wife's affair changed it or is changing it all for me. Funny thing is the affair opened up the part of my brain that now knows what it wants...(does not mean I will get it,may be I will). Not sure this is a good thing or a bad thing. lol. Well, being an optimist, I know a little awareness always helps.

 

Question for you....by politely declining mercy sex when you sensed it, you think it went a long way in igniting the passion in your wife to an extent ?

 

 

 

you know i read a good book recently...(sorry cant remember the name) that talks about how emotional one can get during "transition". In this case, for example, when you get back upset because you were stuck in traffic...transition being you coming home, (changing your "steady state"). It is very important to suppress your anger/tension and think with a calm mind so you don't indulge in love busting behavior. This by the way applies to all human beings...kids and adults in equal measure. Looks like you mastered it mem, that's good.

[Lovely10]

65tr6

I don't think turning down mercy sex turns her on. It might avoid "turning her off". Meaning if I accepted mercy sex all the time she might start to feel resentful like she did much earlier in our marriage when I acted like sex was my daily God given right.

 

BUT - some mercy sex is just a function of mismatched drive levels. On day five, I will say "humor me"? with a smile. And she will either say "sure" or "no humor required - I want you too". Except that if I can tell something is "wrong" in her head - which is not frequent - but it happens - then I absolutely keep my desire to myself until she is ok.

 

Turn Ons for my wife:

1. Any and all demonstrations of power/skill:

- General problem solving including fixing stuff that is broken

- Conflict resolution

- Selling new projects at work

2. Alpha interactions with the kids

- Helping them/teaching them

- Disciplining them in a firm and mature way

3. Direct interactions with her where I assert myself effectively - sometimes after I say - that is "not" happening and then explain she says something like "am I a total bitc*"?

4. Risk taking behavior

5. Physical fitness

 

Turn Offs for my wife:

1. Weak/passive behavior

2. Conflict avoidant (= weak/passive) behavior

3. Dressing/acting nerdy (I have learned not to)

 

I had an issue with passive/conflict avoidant behavior combined with a lack of fitness in years 18/19 of marriage. This did not stop our sex life, it did slow the frequency to the bare minimum I could tolerate (every 5 days) and it was ALL mercy sex which was degrading.

 

Eventually I fixed MY problems a bit over a year ago and ;)

 

 

You need to write a book for all of the guys out there. Demonstrations of masculine behavior is definitely a turn on and the vacuuming and dishwashing a turnoff. Strong and decisive men are always successful with women. That's why the guys who excel in sports (high school, college, pro) do so well with women. They show their masculinity. There are many ways a man can do that while remaining a complete 'person'. However, women are drawn to powerful men and being powerful is a sexy male trait.

 

There are guys posting and posting and posting about how unhappy they are being disregarded sexually. And yet... you are literally drawing them a map. Perhaps some of them might be wise enough to ask for more details from you. They could learn a thing or two.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

You need to write a book for all of the guys out there. Demonstrations of masculine behavior is definitely a turn on and the vacuuming and dishwashing a turnoff. Strong and decisive men are always successful with women. That's why the guys who excel in sports (high school, college, pro) do so well with women. They show their masculinity. There are many ways a man can do that while remaining a complete 'person'. However, women are drawn to powerful men and being powerful is a sexy male trait.

 

There are guys posting and posting and posting about how unhappy they are being disregarded sexually. And yet... you are literally drawing them a map. Perhaps some of them might be wise enough to ask for more details from you. They could learn a thing or two.

 

 

What caveman crap.... Really drives me nuts.... Right there with "don't clean, get a maid", which basically says "show her how much money you have".....

 

Really dislike this female line of thinking.....

[carhill]

Yeah, Charles Manson makes me wet. Please....

 

Can't you see you're letting women call the evolutionary shots? Do you really want to be their slaves? Sure you do. All in the name of getting those little wigglers up her quim. How boringly archaic. Wait until the illusion of your construct comes crashing down. BTDT. Done.

 

Interesting how a woman in 80lbs of firefighting gear is still a woman, isn't it? I don't see any balls on her. I bet she gets laid. Working a 'man's' job. I'll bet she gets respect too, both from her male co-workers and her man. Can't you understand that the reverse is exactly the same thing? Just because women say it ain't doesn't mean it ain't. Stop thinking with your d!cks.

 

As a disclaimer, I had all the sex I wanted, whenever, wherever, in my marriage

[Lovely10]

What caveman crap.... Really drives me nuts.... Right there with "don't clean, get a maid", which basically says "show her how much money you have".....

 

Really dislike this female line of thinking.....

 

Don't you appreciate feminine traits? Don't you respond to feminine behavior, sensuality, sexy clothes, gentleness? If she is your wife and you are her husband I fail to see how you can reduce providing something for her as 'showing her how much money you have'.

 

A man helping with chores is HELPING with chores... thusly sending her the message that it is her job. Even if the two of them work equally long hours... it is her JOB and he is alleviating some of the work... albeit when he can. Doing something to take this 'label' away from her (the maid) can go a long way to clarifying what she means to you. She is not your maid... she is your mate. You are sending her the signal that it is not her JOB. You are responding to her needs, not your own.

 

On one hand you are insulted that my comments are 'caveman' oriented. Yet, in other posts you have commented that you do things, go places, etc... trying to put her in the mood. I am wondering why you are so reluctant to see this side of it when you are open to trying to please her in other ways. I am confused.

[Lovely10]

Yeah, Charles Manson makes me wet. Please....

 

Can't you see you're letting women call the evolutionary shots? Do you really want to be their slaves? Sure you do. All in the name of getting those little wigglers up her quim. How boringly archaic. Wait until the illusion of your construct comes crashing down. BTDT. Done.

 

Interesting how a woman in 80lbs of firefighting gear is still a woman, isn't it? I don't see any balls on her. I bet she gets laid. Working a 'man's' job. I'll bet she gets respect too, both from her male co-workers and her man. Can't you understand that the reverse is exactly the same thing? Just because women say it ain't doesn't mean it ain't. Stop thinking with your d!cks.

 

As a disclaimer, I had all the sex I wanted, whenever, wherever, in my marriage

 

Don't shoot the messenger.

[carhill]

Messenger has more lives than I have bullets. I have tried, trust me

[mem11363]

Carhill,

I am genuinely confused. I am not trying to be antagonistic, nor am I trying to be "simplistic" in approach. When I look at the list of "male" behaviors I focus on - because yes I wish to be respected, loved and desired by my wife - I see them as constructive. Even the fitness stuff - maybe it seems shallow but it feels "good" to be fit.

 

I see this stuff as bringing out the best in me. Maybe there are other hardwired traits - like maybe if we went to bars - which we don't - and I started and won fights that would really turn my wife on. That would be awful and I am not capable of doing that. My desire to be loved and desired is accomplished mainly by me mildly amplifying certain default behaviors and mildly suppressing others - but none of this is "core" stuff like honesty or integrity. If this means I am not being "true" to myself - then I guess I don't know what that expression means.

 

TDP - You can be angry at this so called "caveman" approach but the truth is that my wife and I treat each other with kindness and respect. And NEITHER of us would tolerate any other type of treatment. When I read your posts what comes through loud and clear is that you are truly a great husband and father and that you are deserving of respect from your wife. It is equally clear that you your needs are not being respected and haven't been for a long time. Which in a sense means YOU aren't being respected. And you tolerate that. Heck - worse then that you REWARD that behavior by taking trips to Hawaii or wherever it was you went. I am sure I sounded like a pompous ass in some of my earlier posts - sorry for that. But this power dynamic/respect thing is at the very heart of any relationship and you seem uninterested in addressing it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, Charles Manson makes me wet. Please....

 

Can't you see you're letting women call the evolutionary shots? Do you really want to be their slaves? Sure you do. All in the name of getting those little wigglers up her quim. How boringly archaic. Wait until the illusion of your construct comes crashing down. BTDT. Done.

 

Interesting how a woman in 80lbs of firefighting gear is still a woman, isn't it? I don't see any balls on her. I bet she gets laid. Working a 'man's' job. I'll bet she gets respect too, both from her male co-workers and her man. Can't you understand that the reverse is exactly the same thing? Just because women say it ain't doesn't mean it ain't. Stop thinking with your d!cks.

 

As a disclaimer, I had all the sex I wanted, whenever, wherever, in my marriage

[giotto]

it's funny... the solution is to be a real MAN! Simple, eh? Welcome to the XXI century!

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Carhill,

I am genuinely confused. I am not trying to be antagonistic, nor am I trying to be "simplistic" in approach. When I look at the list of "male" behaviors I focus on - because yes I wish to be respected, loved and desired by my wife - I see them as constructive. Even the fitness stuff - maybe it seems shallow but it feels "good" to be fit.

 

I see this stuff as bringing out the best in me. Maybe there are other hardwired traits - like maybe if we went to bars - which we don't - and I started and won fights that would really turn my wife on. That would be awful and I am not capable of doing that. My desire to be loved and desired is accomplished mainly by me mildly amplifying certain default behaviors and mildly suppressing others - but none of this is "core" stuff like honesty or integrity. If this means I am not being "true" to myself - then I guess I don't know what that expression means.

 

TDP - You can be angry at this so called "caveman" approach but the truth is that my wife and I treat each other with kindness and respect. And NEITHER of us would tolerate any other type of treatment. When I read your posts what comes through loud and clear is that you are truly a great husband and father and that you are deserving of respect from your wife. It is equally clear that you your needs are not being respected and haven't been for a long time. Which in a sense means YOU aren't being respected. And you tolerate that. Heck - worse then that you REWARD that behavior by taking trips to Hawaii or wherever it was you went. I am sure I sounded like a pompous ass in some of my earlier posts - sorry for that. But this power dynamic/respect thing is at the very heart of any relationship and you seem uninterested in addressing it.

 

 

Mem, I like your posts, but more often then not you seem to come back to your fitness and thus your attractiveness and have mentioned many a time how you put on minimal weight and it had a profound affect on your sex life. Sounds awfully shallow on your part (and your wives). You also mention often about your technique and what you do to get your wife in the mood, even though often she isn't and doesn't reach the finish line, but goes along with it.

 

Interesting too that you also have the old fashioned traditional relationship where you are the primary breadwinner and you do feel it is "owed" to you as you bring home the bacon.

 

I am really happy you have a great relationship and sex and you certainly need to continue to post, however I do take many of the posts with a grain of salt.

 

Now lovely, I don't know what our problems are (lack of sex, which is not terrible, just not enough), but I certainly would be dismayed if it came down to me "helping too much" or "not being handy with a hammer and wrench". At least according to you I have a leg up on the plumber or serviceman, as I do earn more then him (and that was a joke, as I have utmost respect for them).

[carhill]

I am confused

 

Don't be. Re-read post #83. Ignore my rants. You're still in a successful marriage. I did all those things and my M failed. They're just different paths for different people.

 

At least according to you I have a leg up on the plumber or serviceman, as I do earn more then him

 

LOL, yeah, maybe but I know a lot of such people who are quite well off, since my profession is adjunct to theirs. It's about business acumen, not the trade. I taught myself those trades just for fun. Grabbed a hot wire at the beach house a couple weekends ago, reminding myself that I still don't know everything. But I work cheap BTW, in my M, it didn't matter if I was Mr. Wizard. It never does. That's the illusion.

[Woggle]

it's funny... the solution is to be a real MAN! Simple, eh? Welcome to the XXI century!

 

Yup. Respect yourself and a woman will respect you.

[giotto]

Yup. Respect yourself and a woman will respect you.

 

of course, but what's to do with being a "real man"?

[angie2443]

Can someone please tell me what exactly "edgy masculinity" means? Can someone tell me what roles the edgy masculine guy and his femminine counterpart play in the relationship? Could you be very specific? For example, do edgy masculine guys change the oil on the car? Can they play games? Do they avoid diapers and other womanly chores? Do their girly counterparts always have their nails painted and speak soft words all the time? Do they avoid mowing the yard and other manly chores? Please don't say they don't let themselves be pushed around. No one, male or female, wants to be or be with a door mat.

 

These terms sound very ideal and lofty to me. I'm just trying to get a fix on what it's like to have an edgy masculine man and be his gently feminine woman.

[Thaddeus]

Can someone please tell me what exactly "edgy masculinity" means?

I think it's basically a re-stating of the characteristics of an alpha male. It's got precious little to do with changing the oil in the car or gagging one's way through a diaper change and more to do with how the "edgy male" interacts with those around him. He's unafraid to go after what he wants, regardless of what others may think. At the same time, he's not completely unaware of the feelings of those around him, it's just that he doesn't let others unduly influence his decisions.

[carhill]

My experience has been, with men like that (edgy masculinity) is that they push boundaries with everyone and take advantage of those who will let them. The only way to deal with them is to push back. I don't need people like that in my life. I hate perimeter watch duty. Life's too short.

 

But, hey, if that makes women's clitorises hard, more power to 'em. Better things to do in the world than fight that battle.

[angie2443]

He's unafraid to go after what he wants, regardless of what others may think. At the same time, he's not completely unaware of the feelings of those around him, it's just that he doesn't let others unduly influence his decisions.

 

 

This just sounds like healthy self esteem. If this is the case, we should all have edgy masculinity!

[carhill]

Great topic for another thread, but has little to do with being stuck in sexless marriages or wanting sex with younger women. Plenty of men with healthy self-esteem have been stuck there, as evidenced in recent threads. Plenty of men with 'edgy masculinity' have cheated on their wives and girlfriends.

[angie2443]

My experience has been, with men like that (edgy masculinity) is that they push boundaries with everyone and take advantage of those who will let them. The only way to deal with them is to push back. I don't need people like that in my life. I hate perimeter watch duty. Life's too short.

 

But, hey, if that makes women's clitorises hard, more power to 'em. Better things to do in the world than fight that battle.

 

You have such a way with words! I want to say that it doesn't make me hard, but that sounds too manly for me!

 

Really though, this sounds like my husband just after we were married. It was he!! for a while. It wasn't attractive at all and was one of the things that landed us in MC. This (bieng involved with an edgy masculine guy) sounds like it would turn into a door mat/door mat user relationship and doesn't sound healthy for anyone involved.

[JamesM]

So, mem, help me out here....

 

Summarizing your long posts, the way to more sex and a successful marriage is....

 

1. Exercise and be fit. (Deal with self.)

 

2. Earn lots of money. (Deal with self.)

 

3. Have your needs respected. (Deal with self.)

 

Did I get that correctly?

 

BTW, TooDP, I agree with much of what you said. And giotto said it....so, all that we need to do is "Be a man" and we will have a happy marriage?

 

Something seems to be missing here.

[giotto]

....so, all that we need to do is "Be a man" and we will have a happy marriage?

 

Something seems to be missing here.

 

 

yes, you need to be a REAL man...

[stillafool]

There have been a lot of posts here about sexless marriages. I realize some of these are written by younger couples. Many, though, are written by older men. When I here how men talk about aging women, and read between the lines in some of these posts, I think the real issue is that the men no longer desire their wives and want "permission" from society to sleep with younger women. There was a thread in the OW/OM section that kind of pointed out the trend of the affair partners of the WH's bieng much younger. I think these older men who complain about the sexless marriages really want their wives to be living security blankets while they go have sex from women they are really attracted to. Since I have hit the mid thirties mark, this is really starting to make me think. I'm just wondering if any else thinks this is what's really going on with these men.

 

 

Who knows? Each person is different. But, don't think that these women who have been stuck in a long marriage don't fantasize about younger men as well. They may not do anything about it but they still long for that hard body and goodlooking face also. Let's face it - youth is attractive. If these women do sneak around they aren't as likely to get caught as women are smarter when it comes to hiding things. It's not a matter of men but a matter of people who get bored and miss certain things about youth.

[angie2443]

This song keeps playing in my head- I hope the link works.

 

 

I think it's time to close the thread:)

[JamesM]

yes, you need to be a REAL man...

 

:lmao:

[Thaddeus]

BTW, TooDP, I agree with much of what you said. And giotto said it....so, all that we need to do is "Be a man" and we will have a happy marriage?

 

Something seems to be missing here.

Good point, James.

 

I think the part that's missing is the fact that one can't control the thoughts or actions of anyone else. Best way I could describe it is that if a man ensures he's a "man," that's one less variable to worry about. We all know that being a doormat or "nice guy" is anathema to a woman's respect, and once that respect is gone it's pretty much impossible to get it back.

 

Of course, being "a man" also means keeping one's wick dry regardless of the temptations that abound. IMO, it's the epitome of weakness for a man to leap into the sack with whomever happens to saunter his way when he's in a committed relationship, even if that relationship isn't particularly fulfilling or supportive at the moment.

 

It's about character and controlling those variables which are under one's control. What happens to the rest of the variables still remains just part of the chaotic universe.