Another (almost) sexless relationship

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I think asking him to go to swingers' party is being quite "blunt", don't you think?

 

No that is about her, not him....... You do have a point though:o.....

[Neutrino]

When I asked him about the couple's club this was honestly not the thought behind it - but thinking about it now (it was about a year ago) I never really explained it....

 

IMO when you have romantic feelings for someone, wanting sex is a part of it (also to some extent when it is just the physical chemistry - what to do and this is the way nature works...).

 

There are other relationships in life : the relationships you have with family or friends, those do not have a sexual component and by nature are different. Do you see where I'm going ?

 

I the fact I "got some" make me happy, since I have strong feelings for my bigger half, I'm far from being able to judge objectively and would like to hope everything will work out....

 

As a precaution I plan to include special conditions about the mortgage in our partner's agreement and modify it if/when things go through. So if we break up he can keep the mortgage (I'm not interested in such a large house by myself) by himself and we will not end up having to sell at a loss, this protects both our interests so we already agreed on it, our partner's agreement right now includes something similar.

 

I did ask him openly, he said we do it more often than 6-7 times a year and he thinks I simply forget, again our different schedules and the likes, I asked him if there was something else his passion was directed at (men, animals, whatever) and he said no, he said he had sex drive it was just not very high....

 

You can all laugh if you want - but I decided from now on to track on my calendar whenever I "get some"..... My memory can not be that far off, maybe instead of 6 it is 8 times a year - which is still not enough IMO....

 

** I admit I have little tact, this has been so throughout my life....

[giotto]

well, at least now he has "confessed"... he has a very low sex drive! Apart from tracking your encounters on the calendar (which I did myself... so I'm far from laughing!), what else are you going to do about it? I don't think I could be in a relationship with sex once/month, let alone once/every other month...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Yesp the other partner never knows...... My spouse doesn't know and usually responds "wasn't it yesterday?";), which is regular modus operandi.

 

A good start is that he has admitted a low sex drive. How about he get a physical and talk to the dr. about it?

 

Again you have ignored questions asked and seem to press forward without answering or asking tough questions of yourself. I asked whether you had sex like bunnies when you started dating, which you have not answered. I also asked about his job, as you continue to use his shift work and stress as excuses.

 

Very simply telling us your master plan to protect him should you break up with regards to the new house is so apart from this situation, I grin wondering why you spend a paragraph telling us about it on this site.

 

"IMO when you have romantic feelings for someone, wanting sex is a part of it (also to some extent when it is just the physical chemistry - what to do and this is the way nature works...).

 

There are other relationships in life : the relationships you have with family or friends, those do not have a sexual component and by nature are different. Do you see where I'm going ?"

 

No I have no idea where you are going with the above statement outside "Yes physical intimacy is a very important part of a relationship, especially in people in their 30's". If one is not interested, then yes it may not be uncommon, but for the one that is, again when there are no children, it can be a jail sentence.

 

Face it you two are very good friends, maybe best friends, and you tell me whether that is enough.

[mem11363]

Your partner is exhibiting ALL the standard behavior patterns of the very low sex partner. The first and most common is denial. Hey there really isn't a problem here and come on we do it more then "THAT".

 

Under duress (they want something big) they find a way to perform for a short time period - could be as short (sadly) as one night of sex, could go on for months if that is how long it takes to get their goal.

 

I will share something personal and then ask you the same. When I had a "weight" issue - for about 2 years - my wife was not attracted to me. The weight issue was part of a behavioral issue, and without being tiresome about this, I feel taht she was justified in her loss of desire. Still, during that time we had an extended - maybe almost a year - time period where we dropped down to my bare minimum frequency which is once every 5 days. By day five I will typically say "baby I am dying" and smile at her. And worst case I get mercy sex. That year pretty much all year was mercy sex which sucked - but was better then nothing.

 

What about you? What is the minimum frequency that you can be happy with? When I say that 5 days is mine, at once every 5 days I don't feel "neglected" in terms of frequency. Just trying to keep this simple.

 

See I think that if you were to ask him - what is his ideal frequency - he is going to either find a way to avoid anwering or give you an answer that has so many caveats that it is meaningless. Like, as long as work isn't too stressful and we are getting along well and ...

 

And I think the "more" you press this the more anxious he will become and the more he will try to change the subject or make it seem like you are doing something wrong by even asking this question.

 

The point of my suggestion is this. I don't think he is willing or maybe he just is not "able" to do the minimum frequency you want. If he is at once every 40 days or so that is because that is the maximum amount he wants to have sex.

 

I will reiterate that you might learn something if you really, truly knew what his masturbation pattern is, but I am not sure it will change much.

 

This is the one topic that people lie the most often, and most cleverly about. The lying is very hurtful to their partners. Quite sad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yesp the other partner never knows...... My spouse doesn't know and usually responds "wasn't it yesterday?";), which is regular modus operandi.

 

A good start is that he has admitted a low sex drive. How about he get a physical and talk to the dr. about it?

 

Again you have ignored questions asked and seem to press forward without answering or asking tough questions of yourself. I asked whether you had sex like bunnies when you started dating, which you have not answered. I also asked about his job, as you continue to use his shift work and stress as excuses.

 

Very simply telling us your master plan to protect him should you break up with regards to the new house is so apart from this situation, I grin wondering why you spend a paragraph telling us about it on this site.

 

"IMO when you have romantic feelings for someone, wanting sex is a part of it (also to some extent when it is just the physical chemistry - what to do and this is the way nature works...).

 

There are other relationships in life : the relationships you have with family or friends, those do not have a sexual component and by nature are different. Do you see where I'm going ?"

 

No I have no idea where you are going with the above statement outside "Yes physical intimacy is a very important part of a relationship, especially in people in their 30's". If one is not interested, then yes it may not be uncommon, but for the one that is, again when there are no children, it can be a jail sentence.

 

Face it you two are very good friends, maybe best friends, and you tell me whether that is enough.

[jennie-jennie]

The point of my suggestion is this. I don't think he is willing or maybe he just is not "able" to do the minimum frequency you want. If he is at once every 40 days or so that is because that is the maximum amount he wants to have sex.

 

I will reiterate that you might learn something if you really, truly knew what his masturbation pattern is, but I am not sure it will change much.

 

This is the one topic that people lie the most often, and most cleverly about. The lying is very hurtful to their partners. Quite sad.

 

Could you elaborate a bit about this? Is masturbation the topic you mean people lie about or is it the minimum frequency? I am curious to why a guy would prefer masturbation to intercourse - I mean to the point of having sex below 10 times a year.

[mem11363]

The topic people lie about the most is their desire level/maximum frequency they are "willing/able" to have sex. Because if someone says to you flat out - "the most I am willing to have sex with you is 8 times a year, good chance you end it". So instead they say things like "I am sure we are doing it more then 8 times a year, you must be forgetting some times, even so I promise it will get better" but they avoid promising specifically what they "will do" because they don't want to actually change anything.

 

As for masturbation patterns. I think people lie about that because it is far easier to say "I was born with a low desire level, it isn't my fault, that is just the way I came packaged". That statement is very different then this:

 

"I love sex, but not with you. So I fantasize about the sex I DO want and masturbate daily". But - as for having sex with you, well 8 times a year, or one every 45 days, that is all I want because I do NOT like having sex with YOU.

 

Some people truly have low libido, but a larger number of people are just not with the "right" partner/type of partner.

 

PS: The lying is very cruel. There is a movie called gaslight, the husband deliberately tries to drive his wife insane. Part of his plan is that when real events do happen he calmly looks at her and swears that they did NOT happen, hence she must be going mad. Notice what TooDamnPragmatic wrote "My wife always says, didn't we just do it yesterday"? Now sex is a very sore subject between them, but she is blatantly misrepresenting how often they have it. Makes her feel less guilty, makes it easier to yell at him and claim he is a sex maniac - which he is NOT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Could you elaborate a bit about this? Is masturbation the topic you mean people lie about or is it the minimum frequency? I am curious to why a guy would prefer masturbation to intercourse - I mean to the point of having sex below 10 times a year.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

The topic people lie about the most is their desire level/maximum frequency they are "willing/able" to have sex. Because if someone says to you flat out - "the most I am willing to have sex with you is 8 times a year, good chance you end it". So instead they say things like "I am sure we are doing it more then 8 times a year, you must be forgetting some times, even so I promise it will get better" but they avoid promising specifically what they "will do" because they don't want to actually change anything.

 

As for masturbation patterns. I think people lie about that because it is far easier to say "I was born with a low desire level, it isn't my fault, that is just the way I came packaged". That statement is very different then this:

 

"I love sex, but not with you. So I fantasize about the sex I DO want and masturbate daily". But - as for having sex with you, well 8 times a year, or one every 45 days, that is all I want because I do NOT like having sex with YOU.

 

Some people truly have low libido, but a larger number of people are just not with the "right" partner/type of partner.

 

PS: The lying is very cruel. There is a movie called gaslight, the husband deliberately tries to drive his wife insane. Part of his plan is that when real events do happen he calmly looks at her and swears that they did NOT happen, hence she must be going mad. Notice what TooDamnPragmatic wrote "My wife always says, didn't we just do it yesterday"? Now sex is a very sore subject between them, but she is blatantly misrepresenting how often they have it. Makes her feel less guilty, makes it easier to yell at him and claim he is a sex maniac - which he is NOT.

 

Mem.... My wife is joking (and yes it is an ongoing one) when she says "yesterday".....

 

She knows we are out of sync, and frankly like the Op's Husband has little idea about how often. The good thing is I know she does not masturbate.... That is a good point. The OP should check the computer logs on his system to see if he is on porn sites, as men need the visual in most cases to masturbate. He swears up and down he doesn't, which then again points to a very low sex drive, which she must then decide if she can live with the rest of her life.

 

Again sadly I'd recommend Ashley Madison to her, which surprisingly seems like a more and more viable and needed service in this society.

[jennie-jennie]

As for masturbation patterns. I think people lie about that because it is far easier to say "I was born with a low desire level, it isn't my fault, that is just the way I came packaged". That statement is very different then this:

 

"I love sex, but not with you. So I fantasize about the sex I DO want and masturbate daily". But - as for having sex with you, well 8 times a year, or one every 45 days, that is all I want because I do NOT like having sex with YOU.

 

Some people truly have low libido, but a larger number of people are just not with the "right" partner/type of partner.

 

Guys, I need your help to understand this, since it affected decades of my life when in the relationship with my ex SO.

 

This is more how I interpret my ex SO:

"I love sex, but not with any real person. So I fantasize about the sex I DO want and masturbate daily. But - as for having sex with you, well 8 times a year, or once every 45 days, that is all I want because I do NOT like having sex with ANYONE."

 

At least with me he had orgasms. Often he did not with other women. He would often get anxiety in connection with his orgasms, as if he could not stand being so intimate with anyone.

 

It is true though that we were not right for each other, I can see that now.

[mem11363]

TooDamnPragmatic - sorry for incorrectly describing the situation.

 

Jennie-Jennie

 

I do believe that he was telling you the truth. I think that for some people, sex with another person is difficult and/or scary. And I think that if their emotions get hurt/harmed twisted in a way they associate with sex, that they may decide that masturbation is a simpler, lower risk solution.

 

And even someone with a really strong sex drive can get derailed by emotion. At a certain point - for a few months - I tried really hard to stop having sex with my wife. To stop wanting her. I just couldn't take the rejection any more. I don't mean the "rejection" of "no I won't have sex with you". I mean the rejection of "sex - sure - yes we can do that if you really want to". It was so, so obvious she did not desire me, it was so clear that it had become totally 100% mercy sex all the time. And there are different types of mercy sex. Like now, on occassion I get the "I am not that into it physically - but it makes me happy to bring you joy mercy sex". And I am good with that. But back then the mercy sex was purely "I know this is part of my marital obligation, so I am going to do it. Full stop.".

 

And I felt like a loser - and in the moment I was in denial about what I was doing that turned her off, and all I felt was this huge ball of anger at her for not being attracted to me, and this huge ball of anxiety associated with how she was going to act the next time - meaning just what new type of subtle emotional rejection would she inflict on me. But I couldn't do it - I couldn't totally stop. I wanted to just switch to 100% masturbation but it was too lonely. So I did the best I could, we went into "maintenance mode" bare minimum that I could stand, which was certainly more then she wanted. And then gradually I fixed the part of myself that was broken, and over a year everything came roaring back. But that "broken time", well it started, then gradually got worse until we hit bottom and I fixed me, and from start to finish it was about 2 years.

 

 

 

Guys, I need your help to understand this, since it affected decades of my life when in the relationship with my ex SO.

 

This is more how I interpret my ex SO:

"I love sex, but not with any real person. So I fantasize about the sex I DO want and masturbate daily. But - as for having sex with you, well 8 times a year, or once every 45 days, that is all I want because I do NOT like having sex with ANYONE."

 

At least with me he had orgasms. Often he did not with other women. He would often get anxiety in connection with his orgasms, as if he could not stand being so intimate with anyone.

 

It is true though that we were not right for each other, I can see that now.

[jennie-jennie]

TooDamnPragmatic - sorry for incorrectly describing the situation.

 

Jennie-Jennie

 

I do believe that he was telling you the truth. I think that for some people, sex with another person is difficult and/or scary. And I think that if their emotions get hurt/harmed twisted in a way they associate with sex, that they may decide that masturbation is a simpler, lower risk solution.

 

And even someone with a really strong sex drive can get derailed by emotion. At a certain point - for a few months - I tried really hard to stop having sex with my wife. To stop wanting her. I just couldn't take the rejection any more. I don't mean the "rejection" of "no I won't have sex with you". I mean the rejection of "sex - sure - yes we can do that if you really want to". It was so, so obvious she did not desire me, it was so clear that it had become totally 100% mercy sex all the time. And there are different types of mercy sex. Like now, on occassion I get the "I am not that into it physically - but it makes me happy to bring you joy mercy sex". And I am good with that. But back then the mercy sex was purely "I know this is part of my marital obligation, so I am going to do it. Full stop.".

 

And I felt like a loser - and in the moment I was in denial about what I was doing that turned her off, and all I felt was this huge ball of anger at her for not being attracted to me, and this huge ball of anxiety associated with how she was going to act the next time - meaning just what new type of subtle emotional rejection would she inflict on me. But I couldn't do it - I couldn't totally stop. I wanted to just switch to 100% masturbation but it was too lonely. So I did the best I could, we went into "maintenance mode" bare minimum that I could stand, which was certainly more then she wanted. And then gradually I fixed the part of myself that was broken, and over a year everything came roaring back. But that "broken time", well it started, then gradually got worse until we hit bottom and I fixed me, and from start to finish it was about 2 years.

 

Yes, mem, I think this is the case with my ex SO. For us who have not been damaged like he has, masturbation is too lonely. But for him, it is a relief not to have to bond emotionally.

[Neutrino]

Yesp the other partner never knows...... My spouse doesn't know and usually responds "wasn't it yesterday?";), which is regular modus operandi.

 

A good start is that he has admitted a low sex drive. How about he get a physical and talk to the dr. about it?

 

Again you have ignored questions asked and seem to press forward without answering or asking tough questions of yourself. I asked whether you had sex like bunnies when you started dating, which you have not answered. I also asked about his job, as you continue to use his shift work and stress as excuses.

 

Very simply telling us your master plan to protect him should you break up with regards to the new house is so apart from this situation, I grin wondering why you spend a paragraph telling us about it on this site.

 

"IMO when you have romantic feelings for someone, wanting sex is a part of it (also to some extent when it is just the physical chemistry - what to do and this is the way nature works...).

 

There are other relationships in life : the relationships you have with family or friends, those do not have a sexual component and by nature are different. Do you see where I'm going ?"

 

No I have no idea where you are going with the above statement outside "Yes physical intimacy is a very important part of a relationship, especially in people in their 30's". If one is not interested, then yes it may not be uncommon, but for the one that is, again when there are no children, it can be a jail sentence.

 

Face it you two are very good friends, maybe best friends, and you tell me whether that is enough.

 

TDP - sorry I have not responded to all the questions - most of my posts I type in the office, so when something comes up or someone comes into my office, I have to make sure they don't see this stuff.....

 

Bunnies : It was more frequent than now, and it felt more intense (so it is not only a quantity issue), but it was never every night. We talk about this today actually, we share the opinion that "the challenge of the score" changes once you are in a steady relationship.

 

Jobs : both are stressful... I'd say his is pretty close to the representative example of air traffic control, and mine is more the long hours and the traveling. However - these are things that your brain learns to deal with, and overtime you no longer experience the stress as so intense. Our life-style has not changed radically over these years.

 

The house plan : I guess I do feel a bit guilty for blaming him for something he has totally no control over, because I do believe he has a low sex-drive and I never saw the slightest clue he might have a secret passion for something else. Even if our relationship strands over this issue - I don't think he deserves to be punished in any way (and neither do I) so I think being realistic about the future possibilities (even if not probabilities) is only practical.

 

Let me clarify - these are measures I would insist on even after 20 years of a happy relationship : although we fully control our actions, we do not control the way we feel, it makes no sense at all to base both your financial future on something you already know is out of your control, no matter how good and promising it looks right now.