My boyfriend doesn't include me anymore.

[mintjulep]

My boyfriend and I have been dating for nearly two years now. We met in college, but unfortunately, he is two years older than me, so he has since graduated and started working in another city. We're still close enough to see each other twice a month (or more, if we're lucky), and we talk every night on the phone. He isn't afraid to talk commitment and marriage, and I'm getting a promise ring for our two year anniversary, a mutual decision based on the fact that I still have some time until graduation, and if I'm not lucky enough to get into my dream school (which is happily enough in the same city that he is), I will end up at dream school number two on the opposite end of the country - not an ideal situation for a betrothed or even married couple. We're extremely happy together and I've never loved anyone as much as I love him. Sometimes I look at him and I'm actually afraid that my heart is just going to burst, literally burst, with happiness.

 

There is one problem. (Isn't there always?) When he moved away, his mother helped him get an apartment. This was totally fine, and actually preferable. However, once she picked his apartment with him, they went back to their home (his parents live on the opposite side of the country, where dream school number two is, actually) and picked out things for his new apartment. I'm not talking basics, either. I mean he has coasters, kitchen towels and paintings with a martini theme. He has a vase (why do two bachelors need a vase?!), he has a very feminine candleholder with rainbow glass, and he has a dishrack. They even shipped his bed, a couch, an armoir, and several large pieces of furniture (across the country) to him. Even after we had a serious discussion/borderline argument about all of this stuff, he bought more furniture. The next time his mother was in town, she took him to get a kitchen table that he claims was for "us" to eat breakfast at, and a dresser that he now regrets because it's too big for his room (something I would have known before hand, but his mother, with all of her life experience, obviously still hasn't picked up), plus a shelf for his kitchen that I can't help but admit is beautiful, but is not something his mother should be buying for him - he's not twelve.

 

There are two problems I have with this. He is an adult. As an adult, he needs to be able to assert some independence towards his parents, especially with stupid things like decorating "his own" space. I've always felt this way with mine, and as emotionally supportive as they are, and as much as I love them, we have this huge understanding that I don't need the kind of "help" that my boyfriend gets from his already ridiculously overbearing mother. The other problem is the big one. I am going into a design related field. There is nothing I love more than decorating. We decorated his college room together, and had an incredible time doing it. The second he got to his new place, it's as though he completely forgot about this thing we had, this talent I have, because of his mother. I already feel, because of the distance, that I am not as big a part of his life as I should be, or rather used to be. I don't know where to draw the line between "just girlfriend" and "girl he plans to marry. eventually" I've never seen his office, because I'm only in on weekends and security is tight (but not impossible to get around - he's just lazy about my feelings sometimes), and he doesn't always tell me everything because he's tired from work, he forgets, etc. There's no reason not to trust him - so don't think that. It's just that I don't get included in a lot of things, such as planning for the upcoming Thanksgiving weekend,even though I was invited months ago. I'll find out weeks later that something happened, and I feel as though he should tell me when big things happen in his life, but he doesn't always.

 

We've been fighting recently because of jealousy issues I have with his sister and with other females (he's really inconsiderate when it comes to watching movies I've requested to see with him, or restaurants that I want to share with him. He'll see them or go to them with other people, sometimes girls, and this is not a problem when we're not 500 miles apart, so I know it's the distance thing that's bugging me and hurting our bonding activities), and it seems as though every time we fight, the issue of the apartment (which has become a metaphor for "you don't care about me" to me) comes up somehow.

 

What do I do? Can I reasonably tell him to get rid of everything? He can certainly afford to refurnish his apartment. He's in the position to do so, and since all the stuff from mommy was free, he can sell it, and even get a little start up cash to refurnish. And if I do, is it going to help? I can't separate all of the hurt anymore. Is it the apartment that has made me cry myself to sleep sometimes? The fact that he is so inconsiderate of my feelings when he's so far away? It's only been a problem since we've been away, because he's always been a little bit inconsiderate, but in that sweet little boy way. It's not so charming now, but he always does manage to make it up to me when we're together. I really do love him but these problems...They just keep rearing their ugly head. I also have issues with his sister, but I won't bore you with those, and this week...it's just really been getting to me. What should I do?

[moimeme]

You miss this guy and you are trying to be as much a part of his life as though he was in your city. This is obviously not practical and it's not working for you.

 

Think of the mother issue this way: this was the last time she could 'do for' her boy. Next move he makes will likely be to a place with you where you will have the say. It sounds as though it would have been logistically difficult for you to decorate for him so why not let him get set up?

 

You obviously dislike his mother, but to insist he get rid of everything she got and start over is plainly unreasonable. Albert Ellis says it's the symbolism we imbue actions with that bothers us. You are interpreting all his actions to mean he doesn't love you when he's just getting his life in order and letting his mom be a part of it.

 

You are suffering the stresses of a LDR. There are websites and books with great suggestions about ways to keep your bond strong while you're apart. Perhaps you could spend some of your time checking those out or inventing new ways to bond with him rather than mulling over all these 'wrongs' so you can berate him when you speak.

 

You'll both appreciate it if you come up with ways to bring you closer while you're apart. Don't expect so much of him; it is difficult to transition from school to work and it would be likely that he would be tired.

[DJ-TK]

You miss this guy and you are trying to be as much a part of his life as though he was in your city. This is obviously not practical and it's not working for you.

 

I disagree with moimeme. I think it's completely normal for you to feel that way, and even completely understandable and reasonable fro you to ask from him things like "not watching a certain movie" or "not go to a certain restaurant."

Now when you are far, you feel like you are also far from his life. To feel close to him you just need to do certain things like know what's going on with his life or be a part of them as much as you can.

 

I believe he can hold himself from going to a movie you set to go together. I feel the same way with my LD girlfriend... I wait for us to meet and then go with her to a movie we both planned to see (and I see her every 3 monthes...), which is much enjoyable to share these stuff with her...

 

When he's not telling you big things that happens to him, you feel like your part in his life is smaller because of the feeling that you know him so well, suddenly interfered. - Not only you do not experience with him his life, you don't even know what he is going through because he doesn't share it with you....

 

I really don't think you are over-reacting to anything... it is hard being in LD and those little things are what brings both of you closer. How would he feel if you wouldn't share with him big events in your life ? I bet he would tell you it bothers him and all.. the fact is, you so want him to know what you are going through, that you tell him all those stuff...

 

About his new place... I'm completely understand you... There he was, moving to a place of his own and need to decorate it and his mom doing it for him. The thing that bothers you the most in my opinion is that in this whole situation, decorationg is absolutely YOU thing ! You love it, you love to do it for your boyfriend and it was obvious to you that this job was for you... And his mopm kept pushing stuff to his apartment... I think it's quite a problem to redecorate (I might be wrong) and so I'm not sure if there's anything you can do now.... Maybe there is, and if you can and really wanna, do it. Obviously you can't make him, but if you'll ask him and explain it's fun and important for you, he might feel the same way and would want to redecorate (I intentionally worte "feel the same way" 'cause if he'll just give up and say "OK...." it doesn't really count... You don't wanna make him do this....)

 

I think you need to explain to him that these things, even those who seems meaningless to him, does have a meaning for you... You can't be with him all the time, the least you can do is plan with him to go to places you both love.... For him it's not such a big deal... but he should understand that for you it is and evantually, I'm sure he'll be glad he shared those things with you..

 

you said:

 

The fact that he is so inconsiderate of my feelings when he's so far away? It's only been a problem since we've been away

 

He should know how much these things hurt you and need to be more considerate... The decorating thing is just sooo YOUR THING ! I think he should get rid of it ad do it all over again (if he can afford it...)

Try to understand that he doesn't get that it is such a big deal for you (even if you told him !!!) because he doesn't understand why.... And this is the reason why he is being so inconsidirate - Because even after you told him, he can't understand why you are making such a big deal out of it.... Try again to explain him and gie him examples from his life, on stuff that matters to him... Maybe that way he could get inside your head - even for a few seconds...

 

The truth is that I was like that (like you BF) in a way with my girl on many stuff... Even after she explained I still kept doing things my way, 'cause I didn't truly understand what she felt.. after she gave me examples from my life

(like "What would you (me) do if I did _____ (something I hate) over and over again and not consider your feelings....) and it suddenly hit me, that I really hurt her and was being bery inconsidirate and unfair....

 

 

Hope you'll work things out... I believe that the best way in 99.9% of the cases is to talk things out and try to get the other person's shoes...

 

Good Luck....

[moimeme]

I disagree with moimeme. I think it's completely normal for you to feel that way

 

Um. I didn't say there was anything wrong with her feeling that way.

 

and even completely understandable and reasonable fro you to ask from him things like "not watching a certain movie" or "not go to a certain restaurant."

 

In the rest of your note, you explain very eloquently exactly why she should not make such an issue of it:

 

Try to understand that he doesn't get that it is such a big deal for you (even if you told him !!!) because he doesn't understand why.... And this is the reason why he is being so inconsidirate - Because even after you told him, he can't understand why you are making such a big deal out of it....

 

That is exactly right. It happens in marriages when the couple is together 24/7, in fact. But to make the guy give away ALL his new possessions in punishment for not having 'got' how much she wanted to decorate is a bit much.

 

Here are a few sites with some great ideas for special things long distance couples can do to feel close:

 

http://www.longdistancecouples.com/

 

http://www.longdistancerelationships.com/unique/games.asp

 

http://www.etoile.co.uk/Love/Long.html

[lostforwords]

Long distance relationships are very hard indeed.... and nothing is worse than feeling left out and not being able to do the things and share with him the things his family is able to do.... it can be frustrating. Im thinking it wouldnt hurt or be unreasonable at all to introduce him to the idea of redecorating..... after all its something you and him can do together and share with the small amount of time you do spend with him, i agree with DJ-TK. Not saying to get rid of EVERYTHING that his mother brought because perhaps she wanted it to feel more "homey" for him granted his situation. but slowly introducing a new decor for example his bathroom.... then perhaps his livingroom and so forth.... its certainly not looked at either as a form of punishment but rather new steps taken to being closer with him and sharing your time rather well. Its certainly very normal for you to feel like the way you do, however just make sure its done constructively so as not to feel like your pulling him away from his family, and thats not your intentions in the first place.

[mintjulep]

I really appreciate all of the feedback.

 

The thing that I noticed is that it seems as though I'm making it a form of punishment. It never occurred to me this way because I have tried a few things that were suggested to me. Such as equating this with things in his life (I asked him how he would feel if I asked my dad a financial question. As my boyfriend is in finance, and my dad is not, he told me that he would be hurt that I hadn't asked him first.) I never intended it to be a form of punishment to ask him to redecorate his apartment. I suppose I left out an important part of the story in my previous post. We have been fighting about this for some time now. I have asked him, yelled at him, cried to him, and explained rationally to him. Every time we come to the same conclusion: He doesn't mind at all my making some small, and maybe even some major changes to his scheme. However, he wants to wait until I am at his place, which happens about half as often as he comes to my place. I haven't been there in two months now, and when I go next time, his whole family will be there, so it's obviously neither the time nor place to start hauling some of that stuff to Goodwill. He seems to understand how I feel, but he doesn't actively do anything about it. He's not a jerk or anything, and it's really important for him to assure me that I love him, and that when we're together I can decorate any way I see fit. So I understand that I'm being unreasonable (though I have to admit, your posts helped me along somewhat in that area. I was too blind to it before). I just wish that he wouldn't let me, for example, pick out placemats for that lovely kitchen table that his mother took him to get (Again, that story was not fully explained. We had the fight, we did the round and round, and he promised that I would be able to oversee any new decorating of his apartment. Then, suddenly his parents are in town for no good reason - they were on their way to a wedding in another state that's nowhere near where my boyfriend lives and they spent a week with him - and they bought more furniture that he picked out with them, so it's not as though they just surprised him with it. To add insult to injury, he lied to me about it at first, because he knew I'd be hurt, but then rationalized that I wouldn't exactly not notice the new kitchen table, bar shelf and obscenely large dresser, so he'd have to tell me. He chose to do it over the phone while I was in class). Anyway, I wish that he wouldn't let me do things like pick out placemats, and then use it as some sort of consolation prize. I think the biggest problem is that he has said that I do have the right to help him out and that I am the official new decorator, but I don't know if he's just saying that. We haven't been able to do anything about it, and that's a big problem with him. He will assuage my pain by telling me we will do something about it, and then we don't do them. He is not a man of action, and that bothers me a little bit, or a lot in this situation. He's just lazy (in certain areas), and he always has been.

 

So given that he has said we're going to do things about his awful decor, because he wants me to be comfortable in his place, and really wants me to visit more often (one of the reasons I don't is because I'm uncomfortable there. His bed is too soft for my back, among other things, but I'd like to visit more, since I do feel left out of his new life. He comes up here, and we just resume where we left off, but he goes back down there, and he picks up his new life, without me) do I go ahead and do it? If he's giving me lip service, because I know that I'm being unreasonable, do we work through that?

 

P.S. - the movie thing is only a big deal because they're expressly movies I've said, "Let's go see that!" In one case, it was Intolerable Cruelty. Everytime a preivew came up, I said, "Can we see that next time you're in town?" He would look revolted, say, "No, I Hate George Clooney." and I would drop it until next time I saw a preview. Then he went to go see it with friends. Maybe it's just that he has problems saying no to people, but he's comfortable enough with me that he has no trouble telling me he doesn't like things? He's just always so laid back, I can see him not arguing with some of his friends, but seriously...he either needs to get a backbone, or needs to start remembering that I exist in times like this. I didn't get to see Finding Nemo at all in theatres because he made me promise not to see it without him, and we just didn't have the time, and it eventually came out on DVD. He still hasn't seen it with me. It didn't bother me, but you'd better believe that I remember it now!

[moimeme]

Do you really want to spend all of your time away from him fighting over this apartment? Are you not making this issue a scapegoat for your insecurities? It looks as though you are using this whole decorating thing to symbolize the 'if you loved me, you would X' problem. Experts in relationships will tell you that this is a real bad assumption/association to make. He does not think of decorating his apartment as a symbol of his love for you. To him, it's just putting stuff in an apartment. In another post, one of the members posted about how men don't 'get' these things often, even if the women tell them over and over. This is one of those male/female communication things. It would never be that big a deal to him so he can't figure out why it is to you.

You are putting this poor guy in terrible position - both his mother and you want to do things for him and are mad at him when he gives in to one or the other. He can't please anybody - which is a rotten situation to be in.

 

PLEASE try to let this go. You are almost obssessing over it. He will be SO happy if you relax about this. I gave you links with heaps and heaps of nifty ideas on how to create closeness and do things together with him. It would be extremely cool if you would focus on doing some of those things instead of beating this decorating thing to death.

 

There is nothing more frustrating than having someone insist upon being offended about something when you didn't intend to offend them. That happened to me yesterday (Jonathan!) and you are doing that to your BF.

 

It never occurred to me this way because I have tried a few things that were suggested to me.

 

Yes, but women do relate differently from men. If a man says to you that something hurts him, you are likely to empathize, file that information carefully, and do your best to be sure to take that into account ever after. Men don't seem to do that and I'm guessing someplace in the 'gender differences in relationship/communication' psychology the reasons for that are explained. Suffice it to say that you need to expect him to not relate the same way a woman would.

 

He sounds like he's trying his best to be loving and understanding but that's still not enough for you. You are going to eventually drive him nuts if you don't lighten up.

[DJ-TK]

Originally posted by moimeme

Do you really want to spend all of your time away from him fighting over this apartment? Are you not making this issue a scapegoat for your insecurities?

 

She doesn't fight with him 'cause she's bored... She fights with him about it because it really bothers her ! Like it bothered him if she would ask her father something about finance, she feels bad 'cause after all their fights, he did whatever he wanted to without consider her feelings...

 

I think that he has hard time saying no to his friends (about the movie) or to his mom (the apartment), and so every time he finds himself in a situation like this, he take the easy way out and just agree.... About the apartment - Maybe he didn't want to let down his mom (and didn't think that by doing so, he is letting you down)... Maybe he wanted to see the movie but didn't wanted to wait for you both to see it together because it was gonna take some time...

 

I do not see the apartment thing as a punishment AT ALL ! The whole issue here is that she wanted to do it, and didn't because of her BF that didn't consider her feelings or might had hard time saying no to his mother and disappoint her. I'm sure that if you wouldn't fight so much over it, you would less be offended... You even cried because of that! what else does he need ?!

 

It looks as though you are using this whole decorating thing to symbolize the 'if you loved me, you would X' problem.

 

I'm again, disagree. This apartment think is not to symbolize anything, is just an example for the whole situation and wehat she feels. If it was only the apartment, she would less be pffended... The thing is his whole attitude bothers her... She really didn't ask for too much and it is ONLY because they are in LD ! He should understand. In a case when one person don't give a certain meaning to something and the other person is get offended by it, the one who is getting hurt should be understood, not the one who don't really care if something will be done one way or another.

 

He does not think of decorating his apartment as a symbol of his love for you. To him, it's just putting stuff in an apartment.

 

Right ! And this is why he should be the one to understand her and not the opposite ! why should she let go something that really bothers her ? he should try harder to get in her shoes and understand her...

 

 

men don't 'get' these things often, even if the women tell them over and over. This is one of those male/female communication things. It would never be that big a deal to him so he can't figure out why it is to you.

 

I disagree... I was quite like her BF in some issues and evantually I did got it... even if he feels the same way about it (and find it quite meaningless), he should understand her and consider her...

 

I am sure he would be SO happy if she'll let it go but why should she ? It bothers her and I don't think that she can "just let it go" if she wanted to....

 

women do relate differently from men. If a man says to you that something hurts him, you are likely to empathize, file that information carefully, and do your best to be sure to take that into account ever after. Men don't seem to do that

 

Men usually show their feeling less often, and this is why when they do, their partner is more understanding. But I don't think there's a gender difference here. The fact that women show more their feelings doesn't mean that when they do, their partner should be less attentive and understanding, just because they often do so.

 

And last thing,

 

You are going to eventually drive him nuts if you don't lighten up

 

I don't believe so... It's not good to fight all the time (obviously) - espacially over the same issue that one side doesn't even understand. I think you shold try to show him that if it was the opposite situation and he was in your shoes, he wouldv'e get hurt too. I'm sure that if he would at least understand you, even without changing a thing in his apartment, just understand how you feel and even say he's sorry, you two can pass this obstacle....

 

Someone here said you can redecorate one thing at a time which sounds like a pretty good solution.. To start with the bathroom for example or whatever, and then see what else.. Maybe he can change somethings and not just throw it all out... If he would understand, he can be more coopretive and you could see together what you can do with his apartment...