What's wrong with it if MM & MW agree to affair

[Rebeccafare]

ladydesigner Now, you have given me some food for thought.

 

I "plan" to feel ok with it and even encourage him. BUT I am old enough to realize that this is not the likely scenario for my feelings deep down.

 

We actually discussed the possibility of one of us becoming uncomfortable with the A (for whatever reason) and agreed to allow each of us to feel free to discuss this and even break it off if necessary.

 

I know plans dont always work out, but we have discussed it and I think we both realize that this is not a forever thing.

 

Fare

[ladydesigner]

I know plans dont always work out, but we have discussed it and I think we both realize that this is not a forever thing.

 

That is good you realize this. I hope everything works out for the best.

[Rebeccafare]

If your marriage is over then leave. Grow up and accept responsibility for yourself. You owe it to yourself and your husband. No more excuses for not divorcing.

 

Either that or end the affair now and throw all your efforts into making your marriage work.

 

 

Is Marriage ONLY about sex?

really?

 

Fare

[anne1707]

Is Marriage ONLY about sex?

really?

 

Fare

 

 

Excuse me but where on earth did I say that!

 

The lack of sex is a symptom of the problems in the marriage. You could actually consider addressing those problems instead of having an affair. Just a thought.

 

And as for thinking you have everything under control because you and the OM have talked, that is just being naive.

[fooled once]

NOT as easy as that.

 

Nice "catholic family" dont divorce.... They just live miserable lives!

 

(according to the spouses)

 

COP OUT.

 

I call bull crap.

 

I am Catholic and got a divorce.

 

I know plenty of Catholic people who get a divorce.

 

What you are doing is against the Catholic faith so why do you care if divorce is against it.

 

I find your behavior selfish, immature and deplorable.

 

Tell your spouse what you have been doing, tell his wife what you have been doing and let's see them decide if it is worth divorcing over.

 

If you don't believe it is that big of a deal, then be HONEST about it to them.

[whichwayisup]

When sex is good in a marriage it isn't a big deal. When it isn't, it IS a big deal, obviously, otherwise you wouldn't go and cheat on your husband.

 

If you don't think what you're doing is a big deal, then TELL your husband what you're doing and see how he feels/reacts. Maybe HE wants someone on the side too. Just have an open marriage, stay together for whatever reasons why you're together and then each of you can have someone to have sex with.

 

One thing, you're getting MORE than just sex (generally speaking since you haven't done the real deed) you're letting yourself get more and more emotionally attached and involved with the MM. THAT is going to be a huge problem, when you find yoruself thinking more and more about him, wanting to be around him more, wanting to talk to him more than your own husband.

 

You seem to think everything is going to happen in a planned way, no surprised, just by the book. It won't happen like that. THERE WILL be hurt feelings, jealously, pain etc.. It cannot and won't be wrapped up in a pretty bow.

 

Bottomline is, you and this MM are bloody selfish. Cake eating at it's best..

[whichwayisup]

NOT as easy as that.

 

Nice "catholic family" dont divorce.... They just live miserable lives!

 

(according to the spouses)

 

I agree, it's a cop out. THOUSANDS of "nice" catholic couples/families divorce.

 

That isn't a justifcation to continue with what you're doing.

[whichwayisup]

Have you even sat down and poured your heart to your husband? Told him that you're unhappy in the bedroom, that you're unhappy overall? That you're messed up inside?

 

Communication and trust, giving him an opportunity to make things better could happen, but I seriously doubt you want that.

[fooled once]

ladydesigner Now, you have given me some food for thought.

 

I "plan" to feel ok with it and even encourage him. BUT I am old enough to realize that this is not the likely scenario for my feelings deep down.

 

We actually discussed the possibility of one of us becoming uncomfortable with the A (for whatever reason) and agreed to allow each of us to feel free to discuss this and even break it off if necessary.

 

I know plans dont always work out, but we have discussed it and I think we both realize that this is not a forever thing.

 

Fare

 

Isn't it great that you and the MM you are doing whatever with can discuss things and decide when your affair is over but you can't give the same respect to the spouses you married?

 

If you want justification for your actions - I can't give that to you. If you want support for what you are doing - I can't give that to you.

 

You are going to continue to lie, deceive and hurt others --- just because you can. You don't seem to have any remorse for what you are doing, you don't seem to have any respect for the people you married and you just want YOUR OWN HAPPINESS, no matter at whose expense it is at.

 

I hope neither of you have children

[Mr. Lucky]

NOT as easy as that.

 

Nice "catholic family" dont divorce.... They just live miserable lives!

 

(according to the spouses)

Fare, what do you think would happen to you - not your H, kids, OM but you - if you separated from your H and filed for divorce?

 

Mr. Lucky

[jj33]

Reading the OPs initial post my first thought was "I never had sex with that woman"

 

Whats the difference between masturbation with another person and sex? is the spouse going to say oh darling noone stuck it in, so I have no problem with that?

 

Sorry to be graphic but you are SO grasping at straws...

 

You are having an affair. OWN IT. Dont sit here and make justifications as to where the line is.

[Rebeccafare]

Fare, what do you think would happen to you - not your H, kids, OM but you - if you separated from your H and filed for divorce?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

Hmm....

 

Mr Lucky, I dont think I have thought about that. Everytime I think about it, I only think of what would happen to everyone else.

 

Not sure I even can.

 

 

Fare

[Rebeccafare]

Have you even sat down and poured your heart to your husband? Told him that you're unhappy in the bedroom, that you're unhappy overall? That you're messed up inside?

 

Communication and trust, giving him an opportunity to make things better could happen, but I seriously doubt you want that.

 

 

You know, I would want that. I have tried that. My husband literally doesnt care about my feelings. I honestly think he is incapable of it.

 

I guess I AM "messed up inside" huh?

 

Fare

[tami-chan]

I AM not catholic, HE is not catholic. Family's are catholic, Spouses are catholic.

 

Both of us know that there is no way other than to stay married.

 

-------------------------------

 

I read somewhere that sometimes people just have to go on with life, co-habiting with their spouse. Keeping peace and just living their own lives for years. Sometimes it is best.

 

Fare

 

 

Rebecca, I understand what you are saying....but...nothing stays the same forever....one day, one of you will change and one will be hurt and the whole agreement is kaput....i.e. one will have a "moral" dilemma of whether to tell the BS or not....to NC or not...and a host of other things...

[confusedinkansas]

confusedinkansas THANK YOU! You hit it on the head! I do often feel like I am going to the "funny farm". I almost went the alcohol route (my dad did do it) and stopped myself because I could see too much of my dad in me.

 

BUT, I do really care about OM. We have mutual feelings, neither of us will allow them to be called anything other than "special friend" because of the possibility of having to drop it suddenly. WE do BOTH fully understand what we are doing and where we stand.

 

Maybe, just maybe I WANT to justify. Doesnt everyone?

 

So, you & your MM care about each other a great deal? But as I am reading overnight posts - Let me get this straight....You two have not had sex? ......or have you?

 

Is this just an emotional affair? If that's the case - It will be more & more difficult as time goes on to 1) Not have sex 2) Have a clean break (as you say that you both have agreed on if one decides they don't want to be part of the affair any longer)

 

YES - We all - in this type of situation - want to justify! That's what keeps it straight in our minds & keeps the affair going.

[confusedinkansas]

You know, I would want that. I have tried that. My husband literally doesnt care about my feelings. I honestly think he is incapable of it. I guess I AM "messed up inside" huh?

 

You're not 'messed up'........He does sound very much like mine...WAS

 

If you've tried to talk to him & he seems to 'literally not care about your feelings"..........Have you looked at it this way - YOUR HUSBAND may have already mentally checked out of the marriage? (I will assume that he hasn't always acted like an @ss) Is that a possibility?

[Owl]

If your marriage is over then leave. Grow up and accept responsibility for yourself. You owe it to yourself and your husband. No more excuses for not divorcing.

 

Either that or end the affair now and throw all your efforts into making your marriage work.

 

Here you go...the real crux of the advice that you NEED, but aren't likely to take.

 

The issues with sex in your marriage are just peripheral...they're more a symptom than anything else.

 

The bottomline reason why that is lousy in your marriage is more likely because good, deep EMOTIONAL communication between you and your husband doesn't exist.

 

Without that, then sex becomes mechanical for a lot of people.

 

What is it about yourself that prevents you from putting your foot down and INSISTING that you get what you need out of your marriage, rather than go looking outside of the marriage?

 

You know that you deserve better...why not INSIST on it? Tell your H point blank what's wrong in your relationship, in your marriage, and INSIST that the two of you seek out a good marriage counselor who can help the two of you work on this? Why not start that discussion with your H already? Tell him what's lacking, what needs to change...and make it clear that your marriage hinges on him stepping up to the plate and doing this?

 

You know full well what you're doing with the other guy is WRONG, and it's going to result in a lot more heartbreak and devestation for everyone. Put an end to it, and work on getting your needs fulfilled in your marriage...and if your H refuses, then make it clear that your marriage is done.

 

OK, your family is Catholic and won't be happy about it...once they learn what is lacking in your marriage, they'll understand. They'll forgive.

 

The odds are REAL high that they'd be a lot less likely to forgive your adultery, no?

 

Step up and take charge of your life.

 

You know full well that it's not "OK" if you and the other guy are happy with it...because you're both betraying your spouses. Your both violating your vows to your spouses.

 

You knew that already when you came here...

[Owl]

You know, I would want that. I have tried that. My husband literally doesnt care about my feelings. I honestly think he is incapable of it.

 

I guess I AM "messed up inside" huh?

 

Fare

 

If he doesn't care, then you will likely NEVER have a happy relationship with him.

 

Is that the future you want? Is that what you want to teach your own kids about marriage and relationships?

 

If you CAN'T get what you need out of your marriage...end it and find somene you CAN be happy with.

[whichwayisup]

You know, I would want that. I have tried that. My husband literally doesnt care about my feelings. I honestly think he is incapable of it.

 

I guess I AM "messed up inside" huh?

 

Fare

 

Yes, you are messed up, the choices and situations you're putting yourself in is just proof of it. What you don't see are the sick justifications going on. The cruelity of what you're selfishly doing to your husband.. Helping the MM cheat on his wife.

 

Sorry, but I don't believe that you truly sat down and talked to your husband, told him all that you've been feeling, how unhappy you are, that if he doesn't do counseling with you, meet you half way then you're out the door and it's divorce time. Your affair has clouded your judgement big time and all you do now is lie..To yourself, to your husband, even to your MM.

[confusedinkansas]

The cruelity of what you're selfishly doing to your husband..

 

And you don't think that what he's doing is just as cruel?

 

I totally understand this. I was in this very situation. My husband (like hers) was told how unhapphy I was - His response to me was "you need to just relax & enjoy life everything's fine!!! (& he poured himself another drink). My husband (like hers) was told that things needed to change. But he didn't listen. He didn't care. Rebecca - I totally get where you're coming from. Folks, there are men & women out there that DO NOT LISTEN to their spouses! They DO NOT CARE! (for whatever reason)

 

A lot here in LS think that divorce is the only answer when it comes to being unhappy in a marriage. It isn't always the answer. And- It is NEVER as easy as it sounds! (or as some would like to make us believe it is)

 

BUT...Truthfully an affair really isn't the long term answer. It might make you feel all warm & fuzzy right now. But when the **** hits the fan...You're not going to feel very warm & fuzzy.

 

Just try to think about things this way......

 

IF you told your husband or he found out somehow. What do you think he would say?

[donnamaybe]

Yeah, by all means, the obvious answer, instead of divorce like many of us naive LS'rs (who've been through it by the way) would believe, is to find someone to screw around with on the side. That's bound to solve the problem.

[Rebeccafare]

And you don't think that what he's doing is just as cruel?

 

... My husband (like hers) was told how unhapphy I was - His response to me was "you need to just relax & enjoy life everything's fine!!! (& he poured himself another drink). My husband (like hers) was told that things needed to change. But he didn't listen. He didn't care. Rebecca - I totally get where you're coming from. Folks, there are men & women out there that DO NOT LISTEN to their spouses! They DO NOT CARE! (for whatever reason)

 

 

Thank you!!! Thank you.

 

Many people do not believe that I have TRIED til I was blue in the face to talk to my H. THAT is the exact reaction I get!!

 

To him, everything is fine as long as he thinks it is ok. As long as people at church or the neighbors think it is fine, as long as he wants it to be fine.

 

And it IS so true. He really doesnt care what I think. When I try to tell him, he will twist whatever I say and make it look like I am either whining or it is my fault.

 

We did go to counseling more than once. It was always, in his eys, to appease me. At the counselor, he is such a shmoozer! Nothing is every wrong... there are no problems... he was very good and making me look like such a complaining little b**ch. One of the counselors we went to is very very famous for what she does and he even had her telling me what a great husband I have and how I really need to "work on me".

 

 

It is ALSO true what you said... when the **** hits the fan, he wont be happy about it. But, not sure he would want a divorce. Really, I am not convinced that he would. I almost feel that he will be upset but will turn it all around never admit that there just may be a deeper problem. Then he will privately make my life H*** BUT in public, everything will be A-OK.

 

No matter what I do, how I do it, or where I do it... IT will always be 100% my fault. Even Divorce.

 

 

As far as OM, I am unsure of what to do. No, we havent had actual sex. We may never cause, truthfully, neither of us cares much for actual sex. That just may be a level of involvement too. ( I used to like it...)

 

Fare

[donnamaybe]

Thank you!!! Thank you.

 

And this cements the idea that many people in affairs come here simply to find SOMEONE (and I think I've only seen one person in this particular thread) telling them it's okay.

[2sure]

It sounds like both of your spouses like sex as you said thats the only time they reach out. As in, when they HAVE to.

 

And it sounds like neither you or MM like sex.

 

For me, it would stink to be married to someone who didnt like sex, I mean not just with me, but AT ALL.

 

It sounds like no one of the 4 of you involved are capable of an intimate relationship. You are all having non relationships, behind each others backs.

 

Does it matter? I dont know but I would think it likely than one or both of your spouses is getting some needs met elsewhere and probably secretly grateful you're not on their back.

[confusedinkansas]

Are you sure you're not married to MY husband! (well, how my husband used to be....cuz he has finally seen the light;)) He had our counselor fooled as well. Some people (husbands) can really turn on the charm when they want too.

 

Question: IF he - your husband - were to finally step up to the plate - would that be reason enough for you to drop the whole affair thing. Emotionally & all?

 

Donna - I don't know if you are referring to me or not - But I"m not saying that the affair is the answer. If you will read what I said - That it might make her feel warm & fuzzy NOW....It is NOT the right thing to do.

 

Frankly, in the long run affairs are much more trouble than they're worth. I personally think that affairs are overrated & that people / everyone involved just ends up hurt. But to tell that to someone just starting out in an affair is pointless. They don't understand.

 

Example: From my experience - I can't tell you how may men online that I"ve chatted with (ONLY CHAT/years ago) & all they want is an affair! They believe it's the answer to every problem in their marriage. When I tried to tell them differently I'm told I"m judging them....So, see - Unless you're in the "heat of the battle" You have no idea the damage one can do.

 

I'm merely saying to Rebecca - I 100% get where she's coming from & where she is at in her marriage & with the affair, with her husband, with the counselor. It really is MY LIFE - only a few years removed.