What's wrong with it if MM & MW agree to affair

[donnamaybe]

I totally get where she is at in her marriage too. But she is simply compounding her problems, not doing anything to solve them.

[GorillaTheater]

It sounds like both of your spouses like sex as you said thats the only time they reach out. As in, when they HAVE to.

 

And it sounds like neither you or MM like sex.

 

For me, it would stink to be married to someone who didnt like sex, I mean not just with me, but AT ALL.

 

It sounds like no one of the 4 of you involved are capable of an intimate relationship. You are all having non relationships, behind each others backs.

 

Does it matter? I dont know but I would think it likely than one or both of your spouses is getting some needs met elsewhere and probably secretly grateful you're not on their back.

 

Couldn't have said it better. The bolded part is brilliant.

[Mr. Lucky]

We may never cause, truthfully, neither of us cares much for actual sex.

And you paint your H as emotionally distant and unavailable ??? I don't think that it's an accident that you've chosen an OM that feels as you do. This thread is more proof that there's two sides to every story...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Rebeccafare]

I USED to like sex.

But, then my H got so bad in the way he treated me. I honestly felt that the only reason he was nice to me was so that he could get his jollies and I would give in.

So, I guess it has lost it's luster for me. I see sex as shallow and mostly one sided.

 

There are so many better ways to express feelings that are not one sided nor shallow.

 

I am sure that most will not agree with me. But, this has been my experience.

 

THAT is what I think I really enjoy in OM. I am certain that his brain resides in his cranium not in his genitals.

 

 

Confusedinkansas... You have given me a shred of hope. NOT because you condone the A, but because for the first time ever, it seems like SOMEONE understands my life. I truly feel totally alone and totally like nobody will believe my story.

 

Fare

[PhoenixRise]

I USED to like sex.

But, then my H got so bad in the way he treated me. I honestly felt that the only reason he was nice to me was so that he could get his jollies and I would give in.

So, I guess it has lost it's luster for me. I see sex as shallow and mostly one sided.

 

There are so many better ways to express feelings that are not one sided nor shallow.

 

I am sure that most will not agree with me. But, this has been my experience.

 

THAT is what I think I really enjoy in OM. I am certain that his brain resides in his cranium not in his genitals.

 

 

 

 

Fare

 

 

Rebecca

 

How long have you been married. AND how long have you felt this way about your H?

[Rebeccafare]

I have been married 25 years.

 

It is really hard to put a finger on when it started. But, I will say that , to this extent, probably at least 5 years.

I think it started about 10 years ago.

 

Fare

[ladydesigner]

Rebeccafare I understand you. I am kind of in the same boat, sexwise with my husband. I used to like sex with my husband until I had kids and the other pressures that come with it and then sex started to become a chore. my husband has always wanted lots of sex, almost too much, and it really kinda makes me feel sick. I'm assuming my attitude towards it helped him to cheat. I felt dead inside, I no longer felt like a sexual being until I met my xOM. My xOM was not that big on sex either so we had a little bit in common. My relationship with xOM was very emotional and sensual. We did have a PA but sex was not the main factor in it.

 

Sex now with my husband has been improving, but I still don't really FEEL like having sex with him if that makes sense. It certainly helps when I have a couple of glasses of wine.

[Rebeccafare]

Rebeccafare I understand you....

 

...I felt dead inside, I no longer felt like a sexual being until I met my xOM. My xOM was not that big on sex either so we had a little bit in common. My relationship with xOM was very emotional and sensual. We did have a PA but sex was not the main factor in it.

 

Sex now with my husband has been improving, but I still don't really FEEL like having sex with him if that makes sense. It certainly helps when I have a couple of glasses of wine.

 

 

OMG Ladydesigner!!

 

That is SO true! On all accounts.

My relationship with my OM is definitely Sensual and emotional. Neither myself or OM drink when we are together. But, I certainly get what you say about sex with H + wine!! lol

 

Fare

[confusedinkansas]

I have been married 25 years.

 

It is really hard to put a finger on when it started. But, I will say that , to this extent, probably at least 5 years.

I think it started about 10 years ago.

 

Fare

 

OMG You ARE ME!! I'm married 29 years.

 

I will tell you this much. My husband & I did separate for 14 months. My affair had been over for a year & the separation had nothing to do with the affair itsself. It did however, have everything to do with his self serving attitude & drinking. (both go hand in hand)

 

After a VERY rocky 14 months....We have been back together full time now for about 6 months & I can honestly say that things have done a complete turn around. He no longer drinks anywhere near what he used to (yes he still drinks, but he's not passed out on the couch at 6:00 pm every night anymore)

 

He is caring, loving & we both have new found respect for each other.

 

I blame, in part...EMPTYNEST SYNDROME! I believe in it. I think it plays a huge role (bigger than most think) in the dowfall of marriages at our age. Anyway, There is hope for you. I"m not saying that leaving him is the answer.......it was MY answer. Got me back the man I married & changed my attitude towards affairs.

 

I still think that what 2 grown ups do on their own time is their business.....Including affairs! I will personally never participate in one again...But that's my hind-site!

[donnamaybe]

I still think that what 2 grown ups do on their own time is their business.....Including affairs!

 

Nice attitude.

 

Why bother with vows then?

 

Look, I get that your H's didn't honor their vows either with their behavior. However, if one is going to make a vow and attempt to honor it, that also includes going to whatever lengths it takes to make the marriage work. If all efforts are exhausted, and nothing has improved, then you divorce. But all this sneaky stuff is just that; sneaky stuff. It only makes you look bad and puts a VERY temporary band aid on your emotions and one that will certainly not continue.

[confusedinkansas]

Nice attitude.

 

Do you really care that much what other people do? I'm merely saying...To each their own. I'm not here on this earth to judge. If they wanna have an affair & deal with the ramifications....That's their business. Not mine.

 

I'm interested in this thread because it is very much a life I lived for about 9 or so years of my married life. So I think that by telling what happened to me - may or may not help.

 

Affairs are wrong for ME. There are people in this world & here in LS that are serial cheaters (I believe my ex MM is one for sure) & have been all their lives. If it works for them - So Be It! I also know of women whose husbands have cheated on them most of their marriages & THEY ARE FULLY AWARE OF IT & it's never spoken about....& they are fine with it. As long as they get out of the marriage what they need, whether it be finances or what have you...They are ok with the situation as it is.

[Rebeccafare]

OMG You ARE ME!! I'm married 29 years.

 

........I blame, in part...EMPTYNEST SYNDROME! I believe in it. I think it plays a huge role (bigger than most think) in the dowfall of marriages at our age. QUOTE]

 

I still have two young children at home. (not my only ones, just the ones left at home)

 

Can you have empty nest syndrome when your nest isnt quite empty yet?

 

Fare

[Lizzie60]

Rebecca..

 

Some people are stuck in miserable marriage and spend all their time on internet forums... and most of the time .. half drunk... but they ARE NOT cheating..

 

In your case, you choose to have an EA with a MM.. so that you can stay 'sane', happy (as much as you possibly can) and keep your family (children) together.. and it's clear you won't break up his family...

 

I don't see any problems..

[fooled once]

There is a problem because the HUSBAND has no idea his wife is getting her needs met elsewhere and that isn't fair to him. I get the implication that oral sex has happened and again, she is exposing an unsuspecting person to disease.

 

And we have no idea IF her H is as emotionally absent as she says; could be the justification she wants to say it is okay what she is doing.

 

Once again, if it is okay, just tell your husband. Would you be doing the things you do IN FRONT OF HIM that you are doing behind his back?

 

I get people grow apart. I get the whole sex sucks with the spouse (personal experience from my exh - he used to make me feel like a cheap whore). but that doesn't give anyone license to go out and screw around ~ emotionally or physically ~ with someone else.

 

Own up to what you have done and takes steps to either FIX the marriage OR get out of the marriage. I fail to see why these two options aren't explored BEFORE going outside the marriage.

 

What are you teaching your children about a marriage? What kind of role model is that? If one of your children is a son, would it be okay for his one day wife to do to him what you are doing to your H? Should he follow in your footsteps? Or perhaps if you have a daughter; should her one day H cheat on her like you are doing?

 

Stop justifying it.

 

Stop lying, sneaking, cheating and being disrespectful and STAND UP and OWN what you have done; give your H ONE last chance to work WITH you towards rebuilding your marriage or GET OUT.

 

Heck, do it for YOURSELF to allow yourself time to find someone you love, someone you would like to be sexually intimate with again and give yourself the opportunity to be TRULY happy again.

[herenow]

What's wrong with lying? What's wrong with stealing? If the person who is lying or stealing is OK with it, does that make it right? Ask the person who has been lied to or stolen from and they can tell you if they feel it's OK.

 

Same with an affair. The person to ask if it's wrong is the person, who most of the time, isn't part of the decision. If everyone involved (all spouses) agree, then sure no problem But, if an affair has the potential to cause pain to anyone, then how can it be OK?

[Lizzie60]

Because divorcing is not always the answer... some people will not put that kind of pain on the ones they love most... their kids.. it's that simple... why can't people understand that .. I just don't get it..

[herenow]

Because divorcing is not always the answer... some people will not put that kind of pain on the ones they love most... their kids.. it's that simple... why can't people understand that .. I just don't get it..

 

Again, if all parties agree, then why would there be a problem? But I think that would be called an open marriage and not an affair.

[Mr. Lucky]

Because divorcing is not always the answer... some people will not put that kind of pain on the ones they love most... their kids.. it's that simple... why can't people understand that .. I just don't get it..

How would you compare the pain of divorcing with the pain of finding out that your spouse is physically and emotionally involved with someone else? Personally, I'd rather be left behind than cheated on. And, from the WS's side, I'd rather be known as someone that bailed on the marriage than someone that played my spouse for a fool and a mark, especially if there will be an ongoing relationship with the STBx due to shared parenting...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Chrome Barracuda]

Because divorcing is not always the answer... some people will not put that kind of pain on the ones they love most... their kids.. it's that simple... why can't people understand that .. I just don't get it..

 

So cheating and emotionally and mentally raping your spouse isnt painful enough?

 

And or opening your family up to any STD's out there?

 

You know alot of women get HPV and HPV can cause cervical cancer. I wonder is it all worth it to place everything on the line.

 

To the OP you have a choice... You make your choices. no one put a gun to your head and forced you to do what you are doing.

[confusedinkansas]

You don't HAVE to take her word for it - Yes, we are getting only one side of the story - therefore we post our opinions on that one side.

 

There is a problem because the HUSBAND has no idea his wife is getting her needs met elsewhere and that isn't fair to him. Stop justifying it.

 

How fair is it of HIM to ignore her needs? How fair is it of HIM to not listen when she talks?

 

What are you teaching your children about a marriage?

 

What the heck do the kids have anything to do with this? I'll bet because of how long she's been married they are either grown are darn near close. And I highly doubt she's sharing her experiences with them. It never ceases to amaze me that people toss "what about the kids" in one's face, like this affects them. It doesn't!

 

I don't know about anyone else - but even during my affair - I never took time away from my family ever, to be with my exOM. Our times together were during my husbands golf outings & while he was out of town. (My kids were already on their own, so obviously it didn't affect them)

 

or GET OUT.

Way easier said than done in most situations.

[Owl]

I still think that what 2 grown ups do on their own time is their business.....Including affairs! I will personally never participate in one again...But that's my hind-site!

 

Does your husband share your view on affairs?

 

Again, that's the problem...just because you're in a marriage, your actions no longer JUST impact yourself.

 

But some people just don't seem to get that.

 

They don't understand that being married CHANGES that aspect of their lives...that what they do now has a DIRECT impact on another person...and therefore that other person should be INCLUDED in decisions and choices that will impact them.

 

In other words...if you wanted to have an affair...which has a direct impact on your husband...you should discuss it with him first.

 

Sounds silly, doesn't it?

 

But this mindset does explain a lot of the advice you give here on LS.

 

I'm very curious how well your H understands your feelings and thoughts on this kind of stuff...and how he feels about all of that as well.

[confusedinkansas]

I'm very curious how well your H understands your feelings and thoughts on this kind of stuff...and how he feels about all of that as well.

He would be of the belief that if 2 people want to have an affair it's their business not his. We are both in agreement with butting out of other's 'affairs'. (pardon the pun) He wouldn't roll his eyes or be disgusted if a friend of his was in the midst of an affair either. Not his biz.

 

The entire dynamic of our marriage has changed & is still changing - in the last year. Not meaning to threadjack.....Sorry Rebecca.......

(Just to explain a little about where I'm coming from & why I TOTALLY understand Rebecca's situation)

 

My husband has been a functioning alcoholic for about 8 years. And over the years it escelated to the point where - - I had an affair, left him because of the drinking, (not for the other man - the affair was over for a year when I left) He began lying about his drinking, lying about his whereabouts, passed out on the couch by 6pm or earlier some evenings, had a myspace page that would make hugh hefner blush (very young hot cute bartenders & waitresses- ) when he was sober he was playing golf... & on & on & on.....

 

All of what he did doesn't 'justify' my affair - but being with my affair partner made my life bearable. He was my rock during those times.

 

At the time of his discovery about the affair - my husband was knee deep in his own "LIFE" & didn't really care much about me that it was not a big deal when he found out. Sure, he had a few days where he asked a ton of questions & I answered them. We rarely speak of the affair now.

 

That's why I believe that if 2 people agree on terms of an affair & they can stick to it then more power to them. - Sticking to the "Plan" doesn't normally work as easily as it sounds though.

It's only a temporary fix - Unless you plan to be with that person forever.

[Owl]

If two people agree to an affair...

 

 

But again...what if their spouses don't feel the way that you and your H do?

 

What if they're more like the 'rest of us'...and would NOT be agreeable to their spouse cheating on them? Does their not knowing make it "OK"? Does it in anyway mitigate the damage that they're likely to suffer if/when they DO find out? Does it make that emotional trauma "ok" too?

 

In your case, CIK, it sounds to me like you and your H have not been 'married' in quite a long time. Your relatonship sounds like it's the "roomate" situation we see described a lot of times...with two people leading completely seperate lives.

 

And...it sounds as though there's still a huge emotional gap between the two of you.

[fooled once]

You don't HAVE to take her word for it - Yes, we are getting only one side of the story - therefore we post our opinions on that one side.

 

 

 

How fair is it of HIM to ignore her needs? How fair is it of HIM to not listen when she talks?

 

 

 

What the heck do the kids have anything to do with this? I'll bet because of how long she's been married they are either grown are darn near close. And I highly doubt she's sharing her experiences with them. It never ceases to amaze me that people toss "what about the kids" in one's face, like this affects them. It doesn't!

 

I don't know about anyone else - but even during my affair - I never took time away from my family ever, to be with my exOM. Our times together were during my husbands golf outings & while he was out of town. (My kids were already on their own, so obviously it didn't affect them)

 

Way easier said than done in most situations.

 

This entire post is funny to me.

 

How can the CHILDREN not be affected by an affair? Absent father? mother who is more focused on her next meeting with her lover .... tension in the marital home. It is insane to think children are NOT affected by affairs. YOU may have been careful, but that doesn't mean everyone is. Look at every single OW who has had the A end, but not because of her doing, and she is hysterical, crying, depressed, etc; and you think those OW with children are affected differently?

 

I can tell you positively they are NOT different because I was one of those OW (divorced but raising a child) and I wasn't THERE mentally or emotionally for HIM because I was too caught up in grieving the end of the A.

 

So yes, it DOES hurt the children and I will never be convinced otherwise.

 

And HOW do we know he wasn't meeting HER needs? Because she says so? How do we not know that he TRIED but she was too distant, she was too emotionally absent?

[confusedinkansas]

But again...what if their spouses don't feel the way that you and your H do?

 

What if they're more like the 'rest of us'...and would NOT be agreeable to their spouse cheating on them?

 

LOL...I never said he was 'agreeable.'

Like "the rest of you" ...... part of what makes the world go around is differences of opinion & beliefs. If we all were alike it'd be boring. You'd be surprised how many people out there are in open relationships or know their spouses are cheating & have turned a blind eye because of 'whatever reason.' (I think my husband knew for a LONG TIME before it actually came out) As the song goes....."To Each His Own"

 

Yes, we were roommates for many years.....But not so much anymore! Things are rockin' & rollin' between us. I actually don't remember a time when things were this good. He's changed & I've changed. No emotional gap. We both know what we could lose & don't want that to happen.

 

 

Rebecca - Sorry - Let's get back to you! Could you clarify have the two of you had sex yet? (I'm still missing the boat on that one)