What's wrong with it if MM & MW agree to affair

[confusedinkansas]

 

And HOW do we know he wasn't meeting HER needs? Because she says so? How do we not know that he TRIED but she was too distant, she was too emotionally absent?

 

Duh - We don't.....But we don't know for sure your story is true nor do you know if mine is or anyone elses here in LS for that matter. We take what the other says at face value if you don't have the othe side of the story.

 

Sorry about the "Kids not being affected" comment (for some they might be)......But mine weren't. My affair was after they were out of the house.

[herenow]

Y

What the heck do the kids have anything to do with this?

.

 

From what I read on LS, the kids have everything to do with this. According to many OW, the only reason the MM is still married is because of the kids. Seems to me it's all about the kids.

 

If it weren't for the kids, if you believe what you read here, most MM would leave BW in a nano second to be with the OW. But, MM with kids are such great fathers, they choose to stay with a woman they no longer want to be with and give up their soul-mate OW.

 

A good idea would be for these great fathers to give the mothers the truth. That way the BW could decide if that is the type of parent she wants to be. When choices are made about how to parent, how is it good parenting to not include one parent in the decision? Why is OK for a MM having an affair to make a choice about what is best for the kids without including their mother in the decision? It doesn't sound to me like these MM are really doing what is best for the kids.

 

But, hey, the MM and OW are OK with it, so how can it be wrong?

[Rebeccafare]

Rebecca - Sorry - Let's get back to you! Could you clarify have the two of you had sex yet? (I'm still missing the boat on that one)

 

 

NO, we have not had sexual intercourse, nor have we been involved in oral as someone suggested. As I mentioned, very sensual and a lot of discussions and "heart-talk". Yes we have spent many hours involved in massage and touch and really trying to understand the needs of the other. We have talked about intercourse and neither of us are too interested in it. AND no, neither of us sees this as anything other than what it is. We are not under delusions of someday "being together" and living happily ever after.

 

Is that detailed enough for everyone?

 

 

I want to comment about the last few postings and the bit about children and H "approval" etc...

 

ConfusedinKansas is somewhat correct. half my kids are out the door but I still have a couple at home. AND I do not discuss my problems with or around my children, even the grown ones. To be honest, I dont know what is worse, living with parents like this or being apart from them in a broken family. (not sure either is "good")

 

Distance is the name of the game at my house. I have made a conscious choice not to fight with my H. So, when he acts mean and grumpy , I usually leave the room or house. When I return, if he is still snippy, I leave again. I have learned not to argue about anything. It just isnt worth it, especially since I know now that he will not really listen to anything I have to say. He will just contort it to suit his needs.

 

As I have mentioned before, My H will probably be mad but only for show. I dont think he truly cares. Maybe that will change in the future as it has for confusedinkansas, but for now, This is My Life.

 

Fare

[confusedinkansas]

Thanks for clarifying.

 

Sounds to me like you're getting support from a friend during trying times - & support you're not getting from your husband - Nor does he want to give it to you.

 

Here's a question - is it possible that your husband has found someone else as well? & that's why he's being ugly towards you? I'm sure hasn't ALWAYS been this way.

[whichwayisup]

As I have mentioned before, My H will probably be mad but only for show. I dont think he truly cares

 

You think, but you really don't know..What is going on inside his head, his heart and what he feels.

 

Tell him the TRUTH and then go from there.

[Mr. Lucky]

Distance is the name of the game at my house. I have made a conscious choice not to fight with my H. So, when he acts mean and grumpy , I usually leave the room or house. When I return, if he is still snippy, I leave again.

And this is the life you choose for yourself? And by example, for your children? I feel for everyone involved, either directly or peripherally...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Chrome Barracuda]

Denial and justification is strong with this one. She knows if her husband does find out the truth is, is that he does love her and she will have to face the guilt in betraying him and she doesnt because she's building up these rationalizations in her head to justify what she's doing. It's wrong...

 

She says it's her life, that is wrong. because you are still legally and binned, married to your husband. it's his life and your kids life as well...

 

Very selfish. Very blinded...

[Rebeccafare]

You think, but you really don't know..What is going on inside his head, his heart and what he feels.

 

Tell him the TRUTH and then go from there.

 

You are right, I ONLY think I know. It is normal for others to "guess" what you think by the way you behave, since no person can actually read another's mind!

 

Try this on for size.

 

Two years ago I was very ill. He noticed because he would tell me I need to get myself together and not let things bother me so much. I just got worse and worse. Finally, I was pushing myself to the brink of death, literally, all because he totally ignored the fact that I was very ill. Turns out I had a growth on my thyroid that was really screwing u p my thyroid hormone production. *I* took myself to the doctor, *I* drove myself to biopsy, *I* went through all the hours of waiting and wondering what the real problem was ALONE. (I was ashamed to ask my friends for support because I would have to admit to them that my H didnt care and had left me to deal with it alone) Thankfully, treatment got rid of the growth and replacement hormones got rid of the sympotoms.

 

One year ago, I had a huge 'dent' in the side of my brest that hurt and kept getting deeper. It was there for nearly 4 months while I 'waited' for it to heal, thinking it was a bruise. The entire time, my H didnt even care. He never once asked how I was, never suggested I get it looked at, never anything. I went to my doctor, realizing it wasnt getting better, Got a huge Cancer scare and was sent to a specialist yadda yadda. I told my H that they thought it was a fibrous type tumor and may well be cancerous. HIS response... You will be fine. NEVER another mention about it. NEVER! Again, *I* took myself to all appointments etc ... Alone.

Thankfully, again, it was not malignant, but it is a fibrous something or other that has gotten better but wont go away.

 

This past spring, I had a cold. It got better, within a month, I was experiencing flu symptoms that landed me unable to sleep or function. I was so sick and in so much pain, my neck swelled from my breast bone to my ears and I could ONLY cry. H slept through it and would tell me to quit whimpering. After an all nighter of not being able to rest and unable to stop sobbing from shear pain. *I* drove myself to the ER. Admitted to the hospital, given test after test.... H NEVER came or called, he didnt notice I was gone until he got up to go to church. Never tried to find out where I was or anything. I left a message on his phone. He did not call me or the hospital. The next day, I was released , still very very ill. He never even commented about me being in the hospital. Two days later I end up back in the hospital cause I was getting worse. Finally a good diagnosis. I had a form of meningitis! More IV drugs and another overnight in the hospital.

My H NEVER said a thing other than this... When I ASKED him if he cared that I was on death's door, he said... "I knew you would be fine".

 

I could go on forever. Story after story about his UNcaring attitude, not all of them about illness either.

 

SO, YOU tell me if it seems to YOU that he really cares.

 

 

Fare

[confusedinkansas]

This is quite a lot of information. I'm so sorry you've been ill & that you have had to go thru these tough times.

 

I wonder though - Since it is as bad as you say....Have you thought about leaving him? Sounds like he wouldn't care one way or the other.

 

I know that using scare tactics to get people off of center is a game - But even my counselor told me, some people need to be jarred back to reality. Maybe a good sit down come to jesus meeting with him - tell him if he doesn't snap out of it you'll be packing your half of the things in the home & leaving. (Don't say you can't do it - I DID...& If I can, anybody can) Even if you can't financially do it right now, start socking away money - It's easier than you think (again, I did it) & then if he doesn't shape up - You ship out!~!

I kinda think the allegid affair is of non-importance now that we have the big picture here.

[Rebeccafare]

This is quite a lot of information. I'm so sorry you've been ill & that you have had to go thru these tough times.

 

I wonder though - Since it is as bad as you say....Have you thought about leaving him? Sounds like he wouldn't care one way or the other.

 

.

 

Of course I have thought about it.

The BIG problem in MY mind about it is this... As I mentioned in another post, he is VERY good at making other people think he is perfect. Making me out to be the problem. HE will come out smelling like roses in all this. Of course, I know that will be the case anyway if I get caught in an A. But, I just realized, maybe that would be easier than getting all the blame for NO reason!

 

Fare

[Owl]

If you leave because he's ignoring you...and you can back up your statements to those who matter, just like you've done here...that's one thing.

 

You stand a chance of impacting other to actually sympathizing and caring about you after the marriage ends.

 

If you end up getting caught in the affair...the odds of anyone believing what you say then, regardless of 'proof'...and the odds of anyone desiring to maintain contact with you afterwards...all plummet to near zero VERY quickly.

 

But that beggars this question:

 

Why do you care if anyone 'disowns' you or not? Do you honestly believe that your own family will abandon you if you divorce him for what he's done? If you really feel that way, it begs the subsequent question of "What would you really be losing if they did end contact with you?".

 

I don't get this, personally.

 

If they're so horrible that they'll disown you for ending a marriage to someone who emotionally neglects you...what do you lose by divorcing him anyway?

 

Or...what if they actually UNDERSTAND what you've gone through?

 

All of that still seems far better to me than being caught in an affair and being disowned by everyone for a real reason that's absolutely your own fault, ya know?

[fooled once]

Of course I have thought about it.

The BIG problem in MY mind about it is this... As I mentioned in another post, he is VERY good at making other people think he is perfect. Making me out to be the problem. HE will come out smelling like roses in all this. Of course, I know that will be the case anyway if I get caught in an A. But, I just realized, maybe that would be easier than getting all the blame for NO reason!

 

Fare

 

Who are you trying to impress with pretending to be a happy family? I am totally confused.

 

If he is so mean and cold towards you, obviously the children have noticed. They probably don't have parents who laugh together, who hug, who kiss, who enjoy being together --- but their friends all do.

 

So it could only be GOOD for them to be away from such a cold, loveless home.

 

So who are you trying to impress by staying together?

[NoIDidn't]

No offense, Fare, as I haven't read the entire thread.

 

But this sounds like the classic case where the WW claims "abuse" of some sort, and yet chooses an A.

 

In this case, its that the H 'doesn't care'.

 

Either way, cheating is still not justifiable.

[Mr. Lucky]

No offense, Fare, as I haven't read the entire thread.

 

But this sounds like the classic case where the WW claims "abuse" of some sort, and yet chooses an A.

 

In this case, its that the H 'doesn't care'.

 

Either way, cheating is still not justifiable.

You see that thinking alot in this forum. "I'm wronged and therefore entitled to cheat". While you and I would see a bad marriage and an outside affair as two separate issues, a WS feels a need to connect them to justify their actions. Step one is villifying the spouse, laid out pretty clearly in this thread...

 

Mr. Lucky

[MeadowGlitter]

There is nothing wrong with it if everyone involved knows about one another.

 

I know I am late in commenting but some of the threads on this board are ridiculous!

[oysterman]

RebeccaFare: I know exactly where you are and completely empathize...a lot of the posts here are spot-on from a theoretical perspective - but sometimes life isn't theoretical. One big question is 'can one person meet all of your life needs forever?'.

[anne1707]

Oysterman

 

Actually most posters are not talking from a theorectical perspective but are posting based on actual experience.

[Rebeccafare]

The input is amazing, the varying degrees of understanding or lack thereof and intolerence has been huge.

 

Admission...

 

I like the closeness and openness that I have with OM. Yes, it is surreal at best. Yes, it doesnt really reflect 'life' because we have no committment or 'real life' obligations with each other, like children, bills, household chores etc... But, that is part of what allows us to relax with each other. I also understand that it isnt "forever" either. One day at a time is the best we can do.

 

 

About Life relationships...

 

Many of you have mentioned getting divorce if this is how I feel about things. Well, some others, including myself, have said "it's not that easy".

I do care about my H. I wish I didn't, life would be easier. I dont even know why I care about someone who I dont think cares much about me.

 

When you marry it is supposed to be "forever". To me, It is not about "impressing" anyone. It is not about living one way or the other. I guess, to me, it is more about obligation. H are like children, no matter what, you are still the mother , or wife in the case of a husband.

 

To my H, it IS about appearing happy ever after as well as obligation.

 

Maybe it is just "habit" to stick with each other.

 

 

I guess that is what sparked my original question.

 

 

Fare

[whichwayisup]

And when you marry, one is supposed to stay faithful to the one they said vows to. And yes, it IS an obligation, a good one - One that you chose years ago.

 

To knowingly go out there and cheat, IS betraying and hurting him, even if he doesn't know you are.. That expression, 'what he/she doesn't know won't hurt them' can only be justified in your head for so long. HE IS going to find out and be so devastated.

[Mr. Lucky]

H are like children, no matter what, you are still the mother , or wife in the case of a husband.

But not the lover? At least not exclusively? Yours is one of the stranger takes on commitment I've seen. Strong enough to keep you married, elastic enough to allow this undefined sex with the OM. I'd say something like "if it works for you..." but it doesn't. You don't seem happy, fulfilled, contented or satisfied. Common sense would seem to prompt the question as to why you'd continue this way...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Rebeccafare]

But not the lover? At least not exclusively? Yours is one of the stranger takes on commitment I've seen. Strong enough to keep you married, elastic enough to allow this undefined sex with the OM. I'd say something like "if it works for you..." but it doesn't. You don't seem happy, fulfilled, contented or satisfied. Common sense would seem to prompt the question as to why you'd continue this way...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Mr Lucky,

 

Your response actually made me think a bit.

 

I am happy with the arrangement. I am not necessarily happy with my H and the way he treats me, but that is my lot.

 

I guess that was part of my op, what is wrong with it if both myself and my mm know where we stand and dont have expectations beyond reality?

 

Others have angrily , and rightfully so, I might add, posed the position that if EVERYONE including the spouses knew, then that would be diff.

I can see their point. But, you know how sometimes you just dont tell someone something because they are perfectly happy living in ignorance... I guess that is how I feel about that. my H is perfectly happy living the way he is( isuppose) and since he doesnt want to listen to anything else I have to discuss, I dont think this would be any different. So, I, like others I have seen on this forum, have chosen to live my life and just stick it out. I dont know what else to do.

 

But, you Mr Lucky, have posed the idea that I may not be happy, fullfilled etc. that is true to some degree with my H, But I am happy with the relationship with Mm.

 

Fare

[Mr. Lucky]

But, you know how sometimes you just dont tell someone something because they are perfectly happy living in ignorance...

Not your decision to make, simple as that. Your husband has employed a similar strategy, only sharing that part of himself that he felt you deserved access to. How's that working for you ???

 

Mr. Lucky