Kat Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Originally posted by oldfashion IMO - Guys should give up on porn before they get married. Marriage is not seeing a porn movie, reading stories and jerking off by yourself. Its for two people and very special. Did you allow him to have his porn while you were courting? Link to post Share on other sites
oldfashion Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 We had long distance relationship and i allowed him in the very beginning. After we got engaged, i started to make a big deal out of it. ( we still had long distance relationship). 4 months ago, he told me that he no longer needed them and threw them away. He keeps telling me that i am the only woman for him, he is not interested in porn stuff and all he wants to do is taking my pictures and looking at them during his deployments. I think thats fair enough. Link to post Share on other sites
Kat Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Originally posted by oldfashion We had long distance relationship and i allowed him in the very beginning. After we got engaged, i started to make a big deal out of it. ( we still had long distance relationship). 4 months ago, he told me that he no longer needed them and threw them away. He keeps telling me that i am the only woman for him, he is not interested in porn stuff and all he wants to do is taking my pictures and looking at them during his deployments. I think thats fair enough. If that is 'fair enough' and he said those things, why would you need to remove his choice after your married? Wouldn't he choose against it? Or couldn't you risk it? I made my views on the subject very clear at the beginning of the relationship. For me to ask my man to change in any form, after we have built something would be selfish Link to post Share on other sites
Spade Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 I doubt that seeing a picture of a woman's breast is what these women are talking about. They are talking about being lied to. About feeling less than 100% accepted for the woman they are. They are talking about a lack of respect from their SO and a lack of respect for their relationship. I don't see how you get that from pornography. Those are pre-existing issues, or issues you create when you demand that someone give something up just because you don't know how to deal with it, and not because of any problems their action legetimately creates. You wouldn't be lied to if you didn't make him feel like he needed to lie. (He shouldn't need to lie. Pornography is legal, and you should be open about everything. That goes two ways.) You wouldn't feel like less if you didn't feel like less anyway. If you are confident, something as silly as a photo clip would not shake your self-image and make you jealous. And if your husband doesn't respect you and your relationship, he won't start if you take away his porn. Don't blame something completely unrelated for feelings you don't want to own up to. A vibrator at 12. My daughter is 11 and somehow I can't see myself giving her a vibrator for her next birthday. I'd been masturbating since I was six. That gift was, to be frank, the best tangible thing my mother ever gave me. Prudish or not, it's necessary to, at some point, encourage a daughter to love herself first, and to acknowledge her sexual feelings. Corking them up leads to a) explosive deviation when she hits 18, b) lack of understanding, fear, or disgust when it comes to sex, or c) complete disinterest caused by ignoring the impulses. I've seen all of these happen. Granted, C isn't a bad outcome, unless you want grandbabies... Are you so secure Spade that the thought of your SO screwing you and thinking of the porn chick is cool? I am secure enough not to mind. Roleplay can be a powerful experience. He can be Yoda, and I can be Strawberry Shortcake. I'll even wear the hat... At the risk of tmi, I've starred in blue movies with my SO, both for home use and distribution. I do not feel cheap. I do not feel violated. I don't mind that other people's boyfriends have seen me nude, or been aroused by the sight. I have a body, and it's not too bad looking. And, the experience didn't change the way we make love. The fact of the matter is, sex is not just a deep, spiritual bonding. It's also a recreational practice. You can bond with your pants on. Why choose sex? Because it's fun. So demanding your SO to stop having the for-fun kind of sex, or using stimuli that he enjoys, is tantamount to saying that you don't care about his choice of recreation, like thumbing your nose at a hobby, even if it's a lesser one. Instead of blindly telling him to give it up, try understanding what it's for, and (redundant) learn more about yourself, because it's become more and more apparent that many women who have issues with porn have issues with themselves and blame them on porn. Marriage is not seeing a porn movie, reading stories and jerking off by yourself. Its for two people and very special. I've never seen marriage porn. Mostly, that kind of stuff centers around sex, which is not the same thing. And, frankly, if you're not sexually compatable, and you don't give him a choice, the whole opera will fall apart just as surely as if he forced you to convert to Buddhism. It may sound superficial, but the sooner people stop relegating sex to an insignificant, disgusting habit that is only made better if you cry and tell each other how strong your love is as you climax, the better. Who comes up with ideas like that? AND, as if this post wasn't long enough... I asked my SO what he thinks about when he looks at porn, and if he thinks it's the same for all men. He said that he imagines the two of us doing the things he sees, and that most guys with wives, girlfriends, crushes, etc pretty much think the same thing. So, maybe you should be flattered that he thinks of you so often... Link to post Share on other sites
oldfashion Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Originally posted by Kat If that is 'fair enough' and he said those things, why would you need to remove his choice after your married? Wouldn't he choose against it? Or couldn't you risk it? I made my views on the subject very clear at the beginning of the relationship. For me to ask my man to change in any form, after we have built something would be selfish Kat, I dont find it selfish at all. People have to change things before they get married. Porn is just one of them. If you are somebody who can accept seeing porn at your home, it is your decision. I respect it. But i cant take it at all. If i ever see porn at my home, i am going to kick his b*tt outta home with his porn in his hands. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 So heart-warming and lovely to see women talking about what they 'allow' their husbands to do. Of course, if a man were to write about what he 'allowed' his wife to do, he'd have the hide stripped off him by every female on the board. Make all the excuses you wish; to get freaked out about a man looking at porn is unfair. It saddens me to realize that all the jokes about marriage being a 'ball and chain' aren't unfair and aren't just jokes. Link to post Share on other sites
lohrewok Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Originally posted by Spade I don't see how you get that from pornography. Those are pre-existing issues, or issues you create when you demand that someone give something up just because you don't know how to deal with it, and not because of any problems their action legetimately creates. You wouldn't be lied to if you didn't make him feel like he needed to lie. (He shouldn't need to lie. Pornography is legal, and you should be open about everything. That goes two ways.) You wouldn't feel like less if you didn't feel like less anyway. If you are confident, something as silly as a photo clip would not shake your self-image and make you jealous. And if your husband doesn't respect you and your relationship, he won't start if you take away his porn. Don't blame something completely unrelated for feelings you don't want to own up to. Did you read the posts above about how their relationship is being affected by porn? Invariably if someone you love lies to you over and over about something so trivial as porn then one has to wonder, what else is he lying about. And if it so trivial what about the important stuff to come along? I'd been masturbating since I was six. That gift was, to be frank, the best tangible thing my mother ever gave me. Prudish or not, it's necessary to, at some point, encourage a daughter to love herself first, and to acknowledge her sexual feelings. Corking them up leads to a) explosive deviation when she hits 18, b) lack of understanding, fear, or disgust when it comes to sex, or c) complete disinterest caused by ignoring the impulses. I've seen all of these happen. Granted, C isn't a bad outcome, unless you want grandbabies... How can you so easily put people into such catagories? I didn't start masturbating until I was 13. But I didn't have any of the outcomes you predict because my mother didn't or did encourage masturbation. As far as this issue goes, we just have different ways of looking at it. You are not taking into account that people sexually mature at different ages, with different life experiences. The fact of the matter is, sex is not just a deep, spiritual bonding. It's also a recreational practice. You can bond with your pants on. Why choose sex? Because it's fun. So demanding your SO to stop having the for-fun kind of sex, or using stimuli that he enjoys, is tantamount to saying that you don't care about his choice of recreation, like thumbing your nose at a hobby, even if it's a lesser one. Instead of blindly telling him to give it up, try understanding what it's for, and (redundant) learn more about yourself, because it's become more and more apparent that many women who have issues with porn have issues with themselves and blame them on porn. Sure there are many other issues involved here other than porn. Everyone brings their own agenda to the table. My husband and I have compromised on this issue. Ok this is going to sound really wierd, but...our compromise is no playboys in the house, or net porn surfing. But in the bedroom, together we watch the most explicit X movies we can find. It works for us. If he wants private time to do his thing, or I do its no big deal. I just don't like the sweeping condemnation of women who have problems with porn. That they somehow must be lacking in confidence or are controlling. To me, it is all about compromise and honesty. And it is an issue that must be addressed early on in the relationship. AND, as if this post wasn't long enough... I asked my SO what he thinks about when he looks at porn, and if he thinks it's the same for all men. He said that he imagines the two of us doing the things he sees, and that most guys with wives, girlfriends, crushes, etc pretty much think the same thing. So, maybe you should be flattered that he thinks of you so often... And this statement, to me, is pretty pc. and naive. Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Originally posted by lohrewok And this statement, to me, is pretty pc. and naive. How so? I'm just curious what you thought was pc and naive about it. Link to post Share on other sites
MassiveAtom Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Yes. and so should women. No matter who they're married to. I think it should be part of the marriage vows! Official: "Do you, Dick, take Jane to be you lawfully wedded wife, to have and to hold, in sickness and in health, to watch pornography and learn to sexuall satisfy, for better or for worse until death do you part?" Dick: "I do." Official "Do you, Jane..." Jane: "hold it, what am I agreeing to do?" : Would certainly cut down the Divorce rate!! MA Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 I am thankful that Mr. B and I don't try to police each other's sexuality - when we married, we married without that bizarre delusion that people have that when you marry, your normal human sexuality with all of its curiosities disappears with the exception of its context in the marriage. Being married doesn't change the fact that you are human. Your sexuality doesn't just magically restrict itself to one person when the ring slips on. You are monogamous with your partner, and have no intention of finding someone else - but for some people that's not good enough. There must be no evidence that the husband (or wife) would dare even THINK of encounters with other people. How DARE they look at aesthetically pleasing things with sexual overtones? I honestly think that some women would be happy if they could surgically extract fantasy from their husband's minds and reconstruct the brain so that it only knows pleasure from looking at and having sex with the wife. Neither Mr. B or I mixes fantasy with reality to the extent that porn becomes something to be jealous of or threatens the relationship in any way. Porn is fantasy. It has its place in our sex lives as part of fantasy. It isn't a matter of 'preferring porn to sex' because for us, porn and masturbation is completely separate from our sex life with each other. Sex is sex, and masturbation is masturbation. The mindset is different, the situation is different, the sensations are different. Porn is just the visual aid that adds to the experience. I am so very, very thankful that I am not in a situation with someone who would try to obliterate my human sexuality and fantasy/masturbation in every aspect except for its context with my SO. If I was with someone like that and for whatever reason I couldn't leave (though I assure you I would), I'd lie about it too - because there is no way on the face of the earth that I would sacrifice my own personal human sexuality/fantasy to satisfy someone else's neediness and insecurity. Its easier to lie than it is to have to suffer through the completely illogical emotional meatgrinder that you are bound to be subjected to if you are caught having a sexual thought that dares involve anything other than the partner. I don't understand why people try to police their partner's sex life. Why they would snuff out all possibility of fantasy? Why would they demand that there is no aspect of sexuality but the sex they have with their partners? I can only assume that it is insecurity - insecurity with themselves, or maybe they think if a partner expresses any sexuality outside of the marriage bed that they are going to cheat on their partners? I honestly don't know. Link to post Share on other sites
Kat Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Originally posted by oldfashion Kat, I dont find it selfish at all. People have to change things before they get married. Porn is just one of them. If you are somebody who can accept seeing porn at your home, it is your decision. I respect it. But i cant take it at all. If i ever see porn at my home, i am going to kick his b*tt outta home with his porn in his hands. If you read what I have posted, I don't accept porn in my home either. But I made that clear from day one, not half way through the relationship Link to post Share on other sites
Spade Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 quote: Originally posted by lohrewok And this statement, to me, is pretty pc. and naive. How so? I'm just curious what you thought was pc and naive about it. I'm also curious to know what out of my post you're referring to and why. Link to post Share on other sites
CoolAunt Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Originally posted by 7on Anyway, personally I think marriage should mean love. Looking at porn, in my mind, is the same as cheating. However, I also believe the woman should want to be sexy for her husband. Though I'm not suggesting surgery. Men in general are just selfish boys. If I were 20 years younger or had a daughter or niece your age, you'd have to run fast to outrun me, 7on. Link to post Share on other sites
CoolAunt Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Originally posted by Jason 2003 OK, I'll take your bait.......men like variety, women get old, lose their looks, childbirth ruins their bodies, men have always been, and will always be attracted to younger, more beautiful or, in some cases just different women than their wives. Men get old too but women are not as sexually stimulated visually as men are. As long as their is intimacy, most wives are content. Oh sure they may not like hubbie's big gut or bald head, but they are more easily able to see beyond that to the person inside. For men, saggy tits, a fat ass, wrinkles and a jelly stomach are just a wee bit harder to ignore in the bedroom, especially when you can call up a perfect hardbody 18 year old with the click of a mouse. She won't keep you warm at night but she will get you very hot. Sad perhaps, but this is the truth of the world in this internet age. Anyone who has read the thousands of posts by women (here and elsewhere) complaining about their husband's porn use realizes what I say is true. Jason, I appreciate almost everything you've posted in this thread. I was about to come unglued over this "women are less visually stimulated" BS then read this bit about "saggy tits, a fat ass, wrinkles and a jelly stomach." (Yes, I'm reading the thread's pages in reverse. ) I can't speak for all women, but at all of my 41 years, "saggy tits, a fat ass, wrinkles and a jelly stomach" does NOT describe me. Some of the guys who've hit on me lately have made me giggle because they've been young enough to be my sons. Hell, I got carded buying cigarettes a couple of weeks ago. Don't think for a minute that I don't notice and am not attracted to men who don't have bellies that hang over their belts, causing their pants to be pushed low and their butt cracks to show. And full hair other than that in their noses and ears. You betcha! Unfortunately, these same old farts who think they should have the 18 year old variety pack in their beds wouldn't walk across the street if they could drive there instead although I've seen some of them move pretty damned quickly for a donut. And it shows. Contrary to popular belief, there are no good looking men in porn because of men's insecurities, not because women don't appreciate the sight of a good looking, well endowed young man. Porn is created for men, and men don't want their fantasies ruined by the reality of seeing those sweet young hard bodied girls having sex with the type of men that they really do have sex with. In other words, she's a 9, he's a 4...looks good to the average male, also a 4, who's watching. Then, to make it even more "believable" the men don't get the women off; the women get the men off and if the women get off, it's because they get each other or themselves off. Perfect fantasy for a fat ass old (or young) man, if you ask me. Btw, I dumped my last bf because he was a porndog. Not only was his porn usage reflected in his attitude so much that I knew when he'd been pornsturbating without asking or snooping (he'd become very withdrawn, thoughtless, uncaring when porning regularly, then return to his kind, outgoing personality when abstaining from porn), but finally, he wasn't able to "rise to the occasion." The last time it happened, I explained cause and effect to him (cause: pornsturbating; effect: ****ty attitude and Mr Stupid had been used up by Mr Palm and fantasy girls) and sent him home with the request that he never return. He is the poster boy of the porn using (addicted?), over 40 years old man that you've been describing thus far. Too bad for him because I'm NOT the over 40 woman that you've been describing so far. <heavy sigh> Link to post Share on other sites
kiwi Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 I am somewhat confused about this whole issue, as I am on the one hand fairly open minded and realize that it is impossible to control another person's thoughts....what gets to me is that my partner of four years constantly rejects my sexual advances and tells me he is too tired from work to even have a "quickie" ( iwon't go into nitty gritty detail but I have even offered my "services" so that he wouldn't even have to break a sweat if you catch my drift)...yet I know that he masturbates regularly. I once came home from work a couple of years ago.....jumped in the shower, to find a whole wall of our shower covered in pictures of naked women....it was a porn "mural" all over the wall, stuck there by him with sticky tape...he hadn't even attempted to remove the pictures....I guess I can understand the motive behind wanting to have sex with other people besides me in his head...but what irks me, is that he isn't interested in having sex with me that often. I have always had a higher sex drive than him...he calls me a nympho ( I don't think sex twice a week would be considered sex - addict status() but because of his attitude, I feel he has underlying 'issues'. If it was a case of him just needed a little 'him' fantasy time now and again that would be understandable I guess...but he projects the image to me of someone who actually finds sex quite"dirty" and unnecessary...he says sex is overrated( am I really that bad in the sack I think to myself!?)...and when I ask him to masturbate in front of me...he says no. When I ask him if we can look at porn together, or watch a porno together he says no....why does he hide his true sexual attitude from me?...I can understand people wanting to have there own private dirty little secrets, but if he feels this way why does he make me feel like a dirty slut by asking him for sex regul;early? I don't understand him at all and cannot talk to him about this, he just tells me I have got too much testosterone and that relationships aren't all about sex......maybe someone else could help me out with trying to understand him....I know I am an attractive young lady...is he just bored or what? and why can't he just be honest if he is bored??? Link to post Share on other sites
CoolAunt Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Kiwi, he's right that sex isn't everything. But it is something. He knows that too or he wouldn't have gone to the trouble of taping porn pics on the shower wall. That's an awful lot of trouble to go to for hands-free pornsturbating (wtf?) especially for someone who says sex isn't everything. There's something wrong with a man who would rather play with himself than have sex with his wife. So, maybe you don't look like a sex industry worker. But unless you resemble Frankenstein's monster, you've got to be more sexually desirable than his hand is. Google "porn addict" and see if anything you read at the sites rings true for your situation. There are also support boards where you can talk to others who are going thru the same thing. If you want some URLs, please send a PM to me and I'll respond with addresses. Good luck with resolving this problem. Cool Aunt Link to post Share on other sites
Hep Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 I don't think porn is appropriate. Guys have their whole life to look at that stuff. When they find a woman they want to marry, they shouldn't want to look at porn. They should be looking at their wife. LUST IS LUST however you look at it. Porn is LUST. Sooner or later the Porn isn't going to be good enough. You know in your heart if it hurts you. Don't be O.K. with it just b/c others say its O.K. Link to post Share on other sites
lifeasljg Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by toots307 But people in an authoritative position really seem to play on people's minds. To say that looking at porn is cheating is pretty absurd I think. I don't think checking out porn is going to motivate a man to go out and screw someone other than his wife and thinking about someone other than your partner during sex happens to people regardless of porn - all kinds of thoughts pop into my head at times during sex. Fantasy is just that - fantasy - it's fun and it's a break from the stress of reality. I think if a man is told he can't have porn in his life, he'll just resent the woman that's telling him that (considering the guy's been looking at porn all along). Why do so many women think 'good I've got the ring, now it's time to make this man exactly what I want him to be' If you don't like who he is, don't marry him!! Hello. I think in a way that porn is cheating, especially if you're married. I believe the more the husband/boyfriend looks at porn and gets more and more addicted to it, that it starts to open doors to other things. The reason I stand by this is because my husband was addicted to porn, at one time in our life and it lead to him writing other women on emails and signing up for sites such as adultfriendfinder. When he went out of town he would tell the ladies that he wrote, what hotel he was staying at and his cell number. The reason I know that is because God gave me an intuition that something was messed up here and so I followed my instincts and sure enough he was doing that bull crap! It hurt me really bad! When we dated he did nothing like that and then a few months before we got married he pulled that crap and it happened again barely a month after getting married. I couldn't understand why he was doing this to me? So I confronted him and at first he tried to deny it but let's just say his conscience got to him and then I also wrote him a 3 page letter telling him if he wants that type of marriage then he can have those trashy women and that dead end life and that he can't have me and that I will divorce him and move out and never look back. After that it took awhile but i forgave him and he hasn't done it since and i'm so greatful for that but I think Porn is terrible for a marriage! Link to post Share on other sites
Kat Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by Kat If you read what I have posted, I don't accept porn in my home either. But I made that clear from day one, not half way through the relationship haha how times change. I brought some X rated dvd's the other day Link to post Share on other sites
rble618740 Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 I'm interested in everyone's thoughts on the perspective that a husband who gratifies himself sexually by viewing another woman naked violates his vow of "forsaking all others." Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 I guess it would largely depend on whether or not the person considers another person's private fantasy/masturbation life subject to punishment and reprimand if they don't fit strict monogamy requirements (to the point that even fantasizing about another woman is cheating). It would also depend on whether or not a woman has the ability to separate fantasy from reality in that she sees women on pornos as "real women that her husband lusts after" and not just actresses paid to fulfill sexual fantasy by enacting unrealistic sex acts for the camera. It would depend on whether a woman is insecure enough that she would compare herself to unrealistic depictions of women played by actresses, and find herself coming out on the losing end. It would depend on whether she thinks her husband is looking at porn because he wants to get with these women, or if he is looking at porn because the acts in it trigger something in his brain and helps his masturbation along. If a woman can't (or won't) distinguish porn actresses from real women, can't (or won't) distinguish enacted sex acts for the real thing, and can't (or won't) understand that a man's masturbation/fantasy fulfillment is not the same thing as sex with his wife - then yes, I guess for that person, it could be said to be breaking the 'forsaking all others' rule. I can understand how and why a woman would come to this bleak conclusion if a man has conditioned himself to enjoy masturbation to porn more than sex with his wife, or has reached a point where he doesn't want to please or make love to his wife any more and would rather enjoy the purely self-fulfilling orgasmic release of masturbation to porn. If it has reached a point where masturbation to porn is preferred to lovemaking with one's wife, then there is a problem. Either he physically prefers it, or he is emotionally (and therefore) physically turned off by the idea of making love to his wife. Time for cutting back on masturbation if things are otherwise ok. If things are not otherwise ok, and this is just one more problem on a heap of them - its time for counseling. The problem is with the relationship, and this is just a symptom. One can cut off the porn, but if it was symptomatic of deeper issues the wife has now just added frustration and resentment to the collection of emotions her husband has for her. Not good. Cure the illness, and the symptoms take care of themselves. If it just a matter of her husband looking at porn, and it causes no problems other than the fact that she doesn't like it, then it all comes down to one thing: can she distinguish masturbation/fantasy from real lovemaking? If they are the same thing for her, and compromise is not an option then she will need to find a man who does not masturbate or have fantasies about other women. Link to post Share on other sites
Bucky L Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 I would like some advice......what if your bf can't seem to stay out of sex/porn chat room type website. He has repeatedly promised not to and I always seem to find out that he is still visiting these sites.....Any advice would be welcomed...... Link to post Share on other sites
Angel Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 BOTTOM LINE: Attitudes regarding porn are as varied as there are grains of sand on the beach. WOMEN---BOTTOM LINE If you do not like your boyfriend looking at porn DON'T MARRY HIM. If you do not like your husband looking at porn do not tolerate it-----dump him because it will not stop. If it doesn't bother you----then enjoy it with him! Personally I don't tolerate it, it is disrespectful TO ME. I navigate my life and I won't be on my life's voyage with someone who disrespects me, PERIOD. I am not afraid to be alone Link to post Share on other sites
MySugaree Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 I'm interested in everyone's thoughts on the perspective that a husband who gratifies himself sexually by viewing another woman naked violates his vow of "forsaking all others." Marriage, for most, not all, is built on a promise to sexually exclude all others, but your spouse. Marriage vows constrain behavior, not imagination. Marriage is not a death sentence on sexual fantasy. And if it is, I'll happily remain unmarried to my last breath. Link to post Share on other sites
Angel Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 "Marriage vows constrain behavior, not imagination." When one is masturbating to porn, it is not your imagination you are j....o..... Link to post Share on other sites
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