dnm1010 Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 i think it is wrong if one person doesnt want their significant other looking at porn but they do it themselves and a lof of times that is that case. in several examples here a woman has caught her boyfriend with porn and confronted him and nothing improved.. then she let him catch her with porn and he was very upset. i do not want my boyfriend to look at porn and at the same time i do not expose myself to indececy like that either. it is a two way street. Link to post Share on other sites
loveregardless Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 I'm confused, intrigued, and fascinated...but I'm not quite sure if we should be making our getaway plans just yet. Sorry this is a little late, I've been gone for more than a week. But I just wanted to update you and everyone else who didn't understand my arguments and "theories" with something that I read while I was sitting in my hotel room for a week, it's a book called, "The Road Less Traveled" and it was written by a psychotherapist named M. Scott Peck. I just thought it was interesting because he says a lot of things in this book, which are strikingly similar to my misguided and abstract thought patterns. I just thought that if anyone was interested in actually understanding the argument I was trying to make, that they could read through, say, the first 100 pages or so and then come back and tell me that I'm "wrong". Specifically take a look at page 53. It should shed some light on my incomprehensible ideals for all of you. But in regards to your last post, although sarcasm is no doubt a heavy under tone to your message, it is appreciated nonetheless. However I must contest a few of these last comments: You're volatile. You're paranoid. You're warlike. You're wrong. In reality I may be the first three, but I prefer to reserve the judgment of "wrong" to be made by those who "know"...and in this world, paranoid, warlike, and volatile as it may be, you must search for your own knowledge and arrive at your own truths, and even then, you will never really "know". Pardon me for saying so, but I have never and will never simply take what I am fed and have been "taught" and pretend that is the entirety of the knowledge that is necessarily or most exceptionally, true. I did not just read a few self help books and start coming up with ideas...I have always been this way, since I was a child, and God willing will be until the day that I die. The only true thing in this world, is to know, that you never really "know" anything. And might I ask that we amend the before mentioned list to exclude wrong and include, free spirited, abstract, ingenious, intuitive, imaginative, unique, open minded, honest, realistic (whether or not you see it that way), and sincere. And I do like you Flavius, and I like otter, too. I love having intelligent conversation with intelligent individuals, but I refuse to be dismissed because of the nature of my ideas, my age, or my honesty with everyone here on LS. I respect and value each and every persons thoughts and OPINIONS, I just have a very hard time bowing to anyone else's supposed superiority. I don't hold myself in any higher regards than anyone else...but I expect to receive the same respect. On that note: It is wrong for a married man to look at porn. I will leave you with a quote from the book I mentioned before, just in case you don't get around to reading it: "We teach ourselves to do the unnatural until the unnatural becomes itself second nature. Indeed, all self-discipline might be defined as teaching ourselves to do the unnatural. Another characteristic of human nature-perhaps the one that makes us most human-is our capacity to do the unnatural, to transcend and hence transform our own nature." Now if anyone would like to review my previous arguments...perhaps they will seem to make more sense. Link to post Share on other sites
flavius Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Glad you're back, LoveRecentlyReturned! You've got me sizzling for you, now. I hope this doesn't cool your passion for me, LoveR, but I have mainly AGREED with you throughout. I did disagree spiritedly on the point of whether human thought has undergone any revolutionary change in the last 150 years. Apart from that I was mostly just trying to provoke you to those sexy outbursts of yours. I'm sorry about the "volatile, paranoid, and warlike" remarks. That was just pillow-talk, me all swept away with passion. Please don't mistake my admiration for sarcasm, nor my fixation on your youth for condecension. Trust me, I find the untethered passion of the 19 year-old intellect exhilarating. It's just my 22 extra years of life has, alas, irremidiably separated libido from logic. And you, my LolitaRegardless, are the top of the stack. Regards, Your LoveDaddy, Flavius. Link to post Share on other sites
loveregardless Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Well dammit I love you too then! Even though I still sense sarcasm in your lauding...of course, being the cynical warlord that I am, I always have had a problem accepting compliments. Link to post Share on other sites
flavius Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 So just what the hell does *)(*namaste*)(* mean? Link to post Share on other sites
loveregardless Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 it represents the belief that there is a Divine spark within each of us that is located in the heart chakra. The gesture is an acknowledgment of the soul in one by the soul in another. The literal translation is that "Nama" means bow, "as" means I, and "te" means you; or "I bow to you." Link to post Share on other sites
freakyred Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 [font=times new roman][/font][color=blue][/color]Ok now coming from a married woman whose husband loves porn, it is not worth trying to draw a line with. Porn is not bad, men just have a higher sex drive and need to view pornography to help with the fantasy. I have a couple of suggestions for you in dealing with this. 1. If you learn to enjoy the porn with your husband, then you both will enjoy it on all levels. I find that when I watch porn with my husband the sex gets more exciting and tantalizing. Basic fact, when you get married and you spend many years having sex with the same person, you sometimes have to find new creative ways to keep the spice. 2. If you just cannot watch the porn with him, then allow him a porn library. Do not get upset that he feels a need to watch porn. It will become less of a problem if you allow him to watch it, and have him buy a few discs to keep around. (no need to order expensive pay-per-view; which has been known to happen when you fall asleep and you also forbide him from watching. This is an expensive habit). Now remember the advice I give on this comes from first hand experience from beign married to a porn addict. I love him dearly and support his need. Link to post Share on other sites
loveregardless Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 men just have a higher sex drive and need to view pornography to help with the fantasy I have no opinion on what works best for you and your husband, as long as yall are happy, that's all that matters. But this statement just isn't true...at least not in "general"...people have different sex drives based on lots of characteristics and body type criteria, but not because they are male or female. This is a total misconception and it's not at all fair for men to use an "excuse" to watch porn. But if you like it anyway, it doesn't matter. For those of us who do not, and will not ever, accept that their men are just somehow "naturally" cursed "animals" with overzealous sex drives...thanks for the suggestions anyway...I just don't think that's gonna help much. I'm glad it works for you ... but NOT all men are like this. Link to post Share on other sites
sjs61 Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Porn isn't for "all" but enjoy it in a limited time environment cause sometimes when your spouse (female/male) wants to have a 3some than you raise your question if Porn is acceptable in a married I feel its not cause you have to always be the person in the video when you're fat or ugly and that could cause problems like it did with my marriage which I am separated now. Lets get real but Porn is safe for STD but when it gets too excessive than you have a problem meaning if your spouse is watching than hides the porn or you catch them masturbating than you feel like they're cheating when they could invite you to watch or join in. I guess what I am trying to say is eveyone has their own preferences so take it on how you want to deal with it. In my opinion, I took it as an insult cause I'm overweight and cannot perform some of the acts in the video. I feel it makes you lesser of a person if your spouse has to look at an object to get arousal out of them when it should come naturally from their loved ones. Link to post Share on other sites
indistress28 Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 Well..I am so glad that I am not the only one having doubts about my boyfriend... But my question is...if you have a girlfriend that is willing to try ANYTHING...and that you know for a fact that she has traumas about porn...why in the world would you do that.. Yeah whatever is a guy thing,,,but what about respect for your partner. Doesn't hurting someone you supposedly love would stop you from that... And also why if I am up for anything, and have NEVER denied anything when it comes to bed time... why would he be looking at porn now ????? Please tell me because I am about to leave this guy...seriously! Link to post Share on other sites
Kat Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Boundries don't start when you get married, they start when you enter a relationship. If you can't work within anothers boundries and they can't work within yours, then you can't do that to yourself, it is as simple as that. Link to post Share on other sites
flavius Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Good point Kat. Some boundaries are just part of being a good, decent soul. Your statement as a whole is a little too broad though. Some boundaries do start at marriage, and others disappear. Otherwise marriage means nothing at all. Unfortuantely among a generation who believe that all relationship boundaries are subject to their own opinion there is little respect for any boundaries, or for any body. Maybe that is why I am continually witnessing Love-Shackers giving advice to 13 year-olds on how to give a great BJ, etc. We absurdly debate moral questions while standing knee-deep in nihilism. Link to post Share on other sites
HappyInNJ Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Dear Sweetmind20, I would like to give a view from the male perspective. Porn is like an addiction, one can never see enough, do enough, etc, etc. The computer got my wife and I into many a fight in that she would see where I was, and what I was looking at and I really hurt her. However, if one is going to be committed realtionsship, he has to think about how his partner would feel. It's also a respect issue in that I would never look at magazines in the house or anything in that manner, because that would make her feel inadequate. There may also be a seruous issue deep down inside him, in that he is scared of commitment, and giving affection, and the porn is an easy means to get the desired result. This is what happened with my wife and I a few years ago. I thought it was just porn, no big deal, I am just looking at pictures, not gawking at and fantasizing about being withe these women, but just getting off. When I realized the damage I was doing to her and her self esteem, I thought to myself, she deserves better thatn that. I need to treat her better and stop doing this for the sake of our marriage and her self esteem. I was lucky in that after alot of talking and discussing things, we werre able to work things out, and get our marriage back on track. I urge you to look at the signs, and see how deep this goes with your fiancee ( a few pictures here and there every few months, or alot of porn every day). It's hard in today's society not to think about porn when you are surrounded by it every day, but you have to think of what is more important, your replationship, or the porn? Ask him where he stands on this! Link to post Share on other sites
Kat Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Originally posted by flavius Your statement as a whole is a little too broad though. Some boundaries do start at marriage, and others disappear. Otherwise marriage means nothing at all. Unfortuantely among a generation who believe that all relationship boundaries are subject to their own opinion there is little respect for any boundaries, or for any body. I have found that American's have a different take on marriage than the majority of the rest of the world. Now I am not saying this is a bad thing, but it seems to be with Americans that anything is the go until you have a ring on the finger. Where as in other cultures you basically have a ring on from the start and treat the relastionship as you would a marriage, then when you are both ready to 'make it final" you get married; some never do. Americans in general seem to forgive a lot of stuff simply because there is "no ring". I don't know, that is just how I see it and a lot of my friends. From where I sit there should be NO boundry changing when getting married. which is why you know you are ready to get married. Marriage should simply be about coming together in the eyes of god and/or the community and your commitment to promises you make, not about anything else. Especially not about changing yourself and your beliefs yet again. Link to post Share on other sites
dnm1010 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 i agree with kat i dont see there being any difference between the boundaried when youre married or not. im not from here so i guess that might explain it. i have treated my relationship as if i am married from the start. i did not let things that i beliee would bother me once i am married or even have kids (though thngs might come up later as well) slide just cos theres no ring. i think the divorce rate might be so high here because people expect something different ocne theyre married and it causes a lot of fighting. you put it nicely kat. Link to post Share on other sites
HarisHussain Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Pornography and the Islamic Solution The Prophet said, "A woman is married for four things, i.e., her wealth, her family status, her beauty and her religion. So you should marry the religious woman (otherwise) you will be a loser." In Islam, as can be seen from this saying of the Prophet, emphasis is not put on a person’s external appearance but on a person’s internal state. The Prophet explains in another saying that the person who marries a woman for other than her religion is in loss because of the fact that her wealth, family status, and beauty are all this-worldly things which by default must come to an end but her religion is something which will always remain. Imagine a world where your wife’s beauty was reserved for your eyes only and no one else would be able to take a glance at her. Imagine a world where the only woman you saw (other than your mother and sisters) was your wife. The only beauty you’ve experienced is that of your wife’s and how this would allow all of your sexual energy to focus on your wife exclusively. Your wife wouldn’t have to meet your unachievable goals of looking like a porn star or a supermodel and wouldn’t have to worry about your eyes feasting on young attractive women at work. Imagine a world where women weren’t exploited by big corporations so they could sell more of their products. These are not dreams, but in actuality these are things which are achievable. Islam has a solution to this problem which no under way of life can offer. Islam offers women a dress code which allows her beauty to be specifically reserved for her husband. Here’s an example: http://www.shukr.co.uk/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=uk&Category_Code=women This is not to say, men do not have a dress code as they do. Men must cover from their awrah. What is the awrah? The `awrah (private parts to be necessarily covered) for men includes what is between the navel and the knees as stated by the Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam), so covering it is obligatory according to Islamic law. Wearing shorts that disclose the thighs or show the shape of the buttocks, does not cover the `awrah. Neither does a dress that is transparent and displays skin complexion, nor a tight dress that shows the size, shape or bends of the `awrah. All of this is prohibited (haraam) in front of people whether the women are ashamed of looking at it or not. If the trousers (or pants) are wide enough and not tight, then one may tuck his shirt in it as long as it does not display his `awrah. Covering the `awrah is obligatory during the prayer and outside it. What many people do is cover their `awrah while going to prayer but are negligent of it outside the prayer. This is a clear mistake and a wrong act which happens due to lack of understanding or as a result of a misunderstanding of the matter. So as can be seen men must also dress appropriately but restrictions are not as strict as they are for women due to the simple reason that a woman’s attraction toward a man cannot result in rape while a man’s attraction toward a woman can as men are physically more capable than women. I’ll post more on this subject later, tell me what you guys think so far but before I end some verses from the Qur’an. He that desires the transitory things of this life, We readily grant him such things as We please to whomsoever We want, then We condemn him to hell, where he will burn, disgraced and rejected. He that desires the life of the hereafter and strives for it as best as he can provided he is a Believer, the endeavor of every such person will be accepted. Link to post Share on other sites
dnm1010 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 you will find most religeons are not supporters of pornography. i believe selfishness is what makes pornography thrive... Link to post Share on other sites
HarisHussain Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 There are 2 extreames. 1 extreame is seeing sex as something evil and dirty which must be done away with. We see this evident in religions which support monasticism such as Catholicism or Buddhism. The other extreame is what we see in the Secular West (which is now being exported into the East) is the concept of free sex as long as both parties (or more) agree to indulge in it. I was watching the discovery channel one day and it was talking about how a lot of people are becoming sex addicts and how there has to be a cure to this problem. A psychologist was talking about how we went from a phase of sexual denial to sexual freedom and how we need a balance between these two extreames. I believe the balance is the way of life called Islam. An Example: Islam endorses people to get married young so that they can focus on the bigger things in life and not just their animal desires. For example, I'm 19 and am married and have a 1 month old baby name Ibrahim (Arabic for Arabraham, who we believe was a Prophet of God if you didn't know.) Because I got married early, I actually think and reflect over more important things like what is the purpose of my life instead of running around trying to fulfill my desires which will never be fulfilled until I die and become an insignificant creature who no one will remember in a year or 2. Link to post Share on other sites
marie337 Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I completely agree with Kat that there should not be a change in accepted behaviors just because a couple is married. I don't think that women (or men) should allow something to go on and then decide that it's not okay anymore once they are married. In my case, though, my husband withheld his high affinity for porn until after we had been married for a year. He knew how I felt about it and led me to believe that it was not important to him. Now I am having to decide how I really feel about this and I am expected to change my views. Link to post Share on other sites
flavius Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 The Christian and the Muslim have this in common. We both agree that God has a the highest claim on you and on your behavior. Conduct, including sexual conduct, is subject to God's blessing or his judgement. Now, in Christianity one's conduct is NOT the way to eternal life; it is a powerful indicator of whether one embraces the loving authority of God or not. Faithful SUBMISSION TO GOD (powerfully symbolized in the Biblical metaphor of sexual intimacy) is the path to eternal life, and one's conduct gives evidence of that submission. ( I am told that the word "Islam" can be translated as "submission" or "surrender.") Everyone is subject to God's approval/disapproval (judgement) whether married or not. What God thinks is more important even than what your spouse thinks. It just happens that when you live according to God's law, your spouse has little to worry about. My diagnosis? A society that rejects God's standard before marriage has no basis for fidelity after marriage. People run around doing it like cats and dogs, then they are shocked to find themselves in flawed marriages. At least they have their rotten spouse to blame . Husain, I find it hard to understand though how covering up women really solves a problem that exists in the heart, not in the eyes. After all, the problem is not that women should not be seen, is it? I mean, greed is as big a source of sin as sexual lust, but Islam doesn't demand that money and possessions be hidden from the eye. Christ also taught that we should discipline our minds (and eyes), since sin is concieved in the heart before it is "born" as behavior. Doesn't the practice of covering the woman necessarily equate the woman with sin? (Ironically pornography also equates the woman with sin, it seems.) Isn't the problem really that every person must choose to obey God even when it means depriving himself? And Mr. Husain, just so there will be no confusion, the state of American morality is not the result of Christian teaching, it is the result of people rejecting God's authority in favor of indulging their "desires that will never be fulfilled", as you said so elegantly. Link to post Share on other sites
Jason 2003 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 The longer a couple is married, the more likely the guy is to look at porn and masturbate. Link to post Share on other sites
flavius Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Why do you suppose that is, Jason? I would suppose that it may be just because over more years one has had more opportunities to begin. any persistent habit would follow the same pattern (drinking, smoking, church attendance, drinking coffee, crossword puzzles, etc) Link to post Share on other sites
Jason 2003 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 OK, I'll take your bait.......men like variety, women get old, lose their looks, childbirth ruins their bodies, men have always been, and will always be attracted to younger, more beautiful or, in some cases just different women than their wives. Men get old too but women are not as sexually stimulated visually as men are. As long as their is intimacy, most wives are content. Oh sure they may not like hubbie's big gut or bald head, but they are more easily able to see beyond that to the person inside. For men, saggy tits, a fat ass, wrinkles and a jelly stomach are just a wee bit harder to ignore in the bedroom, especially when you can call up a perfect hardbody 18 year old with the click of a mouse. She won't keep you warm at night but she will get you very hot. Sad perhaps, but this is the truth of the world in this internet age. Anyone who has read the thousands of posts by women (here and elsewhere) complaining about their husband's porn use realizes what I say is true. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Originally posted by flavius Why do you suppose that is, Jason? I would suppose that it may be just because over more years one has had more opportunities to begin. any persistent habit would follow the same pattern (drinking, smoking, church attendance, drinking coffee, crossword puzzles, etc) Well, theoretically those who had offspring with different individuals were more likely to have more offspring survive (hybrid vigor and all that), so wouldn't the desire for variety be sorta bred into us? I've read similar theories in evolutionary psych papers. That the average relationship lasts 3-4 years because that's how long it takes to raise a child through infancy. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Originally posted by Jason 2003 OK, I'll take your bait.......men like variety, women get old, lose their looks, childbirth ruins their bodies, men have always been, and will always be attracted to younger, more beautiful or, in some cases just different women than their wives. Men get old too but women are not as sexually stimulated visually as men are. As long as their is intimacy, most wives are content. Oh sure they may not like hubbie's big gut or bald head, but they are more easily able to see beyond that to the person inside. For men, saggy tits, a fat ass, wrinkles and a jelly stomach are just a wee bit harder to ignore in the bedroom, especially when you can call up a perfect hardbody 18 year old with the click of a mouse. She won't keep you warm at night but she will get you very hot. Sad perhaps, but this is the truth of the world in this internet age. Anyone who has read the thousands of posts by women (here and elsewhere) complaining about their husband's porn use realizes what I say is true. I suppose this goes along with the idea that women don't care as much about looks? But why is this sexual-variety-seeking behavior seen so much more in men than in women? I love porn myself, but men in pornos are really funny looking, to me. I get the giggles watching them. Link to post Share on other sites
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