Undecided and stuck, need some input

[Mrs. Ambivalent]

Well here’s an update from me. It’s long. Hang on to your seats. Get some coffee. Get comfy.

 

My plan was to wait until October to talk to him because I knew then I would have my ducks in a row. With my husband’s temper I couldn’t predict how things would go so I just felt the need to have a place to go if I needed to, to get some things out of the house, etc.

 

So during that time things were bad between us, worse than usual. I did a lot of soul searching, I read a lot, I talked to a lot of friends and family. Then a couple of weekends before I planned to talk to him there was an incident that caused me to say ‘DONE’! I couldn’t do it anymore. So instead of just asking him to get help and warning him that I might leave, I decided I wanted a separation or divorce. I couldn’t live like this anymore. I wasn’t sure if I loved him. I knew I might regret it, but I couldn’t go on like that and I really didn’t think he would change.

 

So the evening came. Put the kids to bed and brought up the conversation. I didn’t come at him with a D or S. I didn’t accuse him of being a horrible person. I just told him that I wasn’t happy, that I was sure he wasn’t happy also. We’re not friends, we don’t do anything together, I feel stifled, he doesn’t even act like he likes me, we don’t treat each other with respect, etc. He responded by telling me that if I was nicer to him he would be happy. I’m not nice to him so he’s not happy so he lashes out.

 

So as a reminder he has done some terrible things to me and our boys through the years. He calls us names, he throws things, he swears at us. You never know what kind of day you’re going to have until you know what kind of mood he’s in. I have a pit in my stomach every time he walks through the door after work.

 

But apparently if I would be nice to him (like hugging a grizzly bear) he would be happy.

 

He is an angry, miserable person most of the time. This has nothing to do with me being nice to him.

 

So after about 30 minutes of him telling me everything I am doing wrong and what’s wrong with me I said to him ‘it’s bigger than that’. And then I told him I thought we should separate.

 

He hit the roof. He said ‘No, we’re not going to do that, that’s not going to happen. I will kill you and the boys before I would let that happen’. Yes you heard me correctly. So by this time I’m hysterical and he tells me he would never do that, calm down, etc.

 

Then he threatens to kill himself. Same hysterical reaction from me, him calming me down, etc.

 

Once we came back from all of that I was scared. Scared to say too much more to him. We talked about 3 hours. In that 3 hours probably 2.5 of it was him telling me everything that was wrong with me and things I could do to make things better. I did tell him I had been unhappy for years and that I had planned on leaving him in the spring but then didn’t.

 

He lashed out in anger calling me every name in the book. He came at me with guilt ‘how could you do that to our family’. He came at me with shame ‘I will make sure these kids know that you did this to us and in the future they will hate you’. He came at me with sorrow ‘I’m sorry, I’ll be better, I’ll do what it takes’.

 

Eventually he went to bed, but then came back down shortly after telling me that he would do what it takes to make our marriage work, just name it. He loves us, he couldn’t live without seeing us everyday, etc.

 

Also one of the things that bothered me a lot is he rarely talked about our younger son (with special needs) when he talked about the kids and how it would affect them. He said ‘oldest son (leaving out his name, of course) is the joy of my life, I couldn’t go w/o seeing him every day’, and on and on about him. But nothing about our youngest son. Nothing. Like he’s written him off.

 

So then when I didn’t respond like he had hoped to him telling me he would do whatever it takes he got mad again and told me I had 2 days to decide if I was going to give him another chance or not because he needed to make plans to move if it was over.

 

He threatened to quit his job and move closer to home (1000 miles away!) and said for the 2 weeks every summer that he saw older son (again, nothing about younger son) he would make sure that he knew that I did this to him.

 

In the morning he asked me if I had made up my mind or not, and I put him off because I was seeing the therapist that day and I just felt I needed to talk to her.

 

I gave him the anger books I had purchased through the years but was afraid to give to him and left for my day of appointments/work.

 

Later that day I told him if he really meant that he would do whatever it takes then he will go to IC to get help. Obviously if we are going to work it out then MC is in the cards for the future but I really think a lot of the problems start with him. He agreed to do that.

 

What really bothered me (aside from the death threats obviously) is that he didn’t take any ownership at all for his part in this. Nothing. Zilch.

 

A day or so later he starts a conversation with me and we talk again. He tells me everything I needed to hear. He’s sorry. He thought that being a good father and husband was just providing for his family and making sure there was money for the future. He didn’t realize that if we weren’t happy a lot of that didn’t matter. He would tell people his family was his top priority but he wasn’t acting like it at home. He told me he didn’t think I would ever leave him so he took me for granted and felt he could do or say whatever he wanted w/o repercussions. He told me he’s been depressed for the past few years and should have gotten help but instead he took it out on us. He wished I had told him sooner to ‘wake him up’ to what might happen. He wished I had stood up to him long ago when he lashed out in anger. He begged me for another chance and promised it would be better.

 

I cried through most of his apology/speech because all I could think of was how happy I would have been had he said those things to me 2 years ago. Now I almost feel like too much damage has been done, I'm too checked out of this marriage and I don't know if I can get back there.

 

He said to me a few times "I'm in this 100% and I feel like you've already made up your mind and no matter what I do you're still going to want a divorce". I was definitely giving off that vibe. But mostly because I just don't see him changing enough for me. And also because I wanted him to have that thought in the back of his mind so maybe if it does happen at least he won't be blindsided like before.

 

How can we go from what it was to a marriage that I want to be in?? Not sure.

 

I told him that it will take a while for me to come around because I will need to be sure he's really changed and make sure those changes are lasting. So don't expect me to come around and be loving immediately. Too much damage has been done.

 

He did say that he thought I had made up my mind and that I better not be planning on just staying until after the holidays just so I could say I gave him a chance. He said I better be really giving him this chance not just sticking around so I could say I gave him a chance.

 

I don't know how I feel anymore. It's hard when on the one hand I had already decided to leave and wasn't really sure if I still loved him or not. In the few days prior to the conversation (it’s now been only 4 days) I thought to myself that I still want what I wanted that day, a D or S, but his reaction made me step back.

 

He also said something like if he didn't make lasting changes then he knew I gave him a chance and if he blew that chance then he wouldn't blame me for leaving. I may have to write that down so he can remember he said it.

 

I feel like I have been living for the past 1.5 – 2 years on the outskirts of this marriage. Too afraid to put myself completely in because I didn’t want to invest more than I had to lose. But too afraid to leave. So I just sat on the outskirts with no real plan. A horrible place to be.

 

The weekend before the conversation I really felt at peace with my decision to leave him. I woke up with such clarity and knew w/o a doubt this was exactly what I wanted for my sons and I. To live w/o all of the anger that we deal with almost daily.

 

When my mind has been concentrating on leaving for about the past year it's hard to bring myself back to be committed to the marriage.

 

Finally today I had a thought. I’m going to give it 6 months. In 6 months one of two things will happen. We will either be going through a divorce, or we will be blissfully in love and I’m going to be very happy that I stayed. I’m not going to accept anything in between those two. I lived in this crappy marriage too long to stay in it for 5 more years, 10 more years, etc.

 

I honestly don’t know if I have it in me.

 

Also I’m afraid that he will do everything that he promised to do and do a complete 180 and I still won’t want to be in this marriage. There’s always that chance.

 

I had emotionally, mentally and spiritually left this marriage months and months ago. Only time will tell if I can find my way back to him.

 

I know a D will be tough. Raising my kids on my own, getting a real job (have a great job that pays well with no benefits or guaranteed income), would I find someone else? That would be work also. Etc.

 

So I feel I owe it to him, to myself and to the kids to see where this goes and to give him the chance he’s asking for.

 

My friends are divided. Some say he will not change, not to the extent I need him to. Because I demand better for myself and our kids I will not tolerate life the way it was. Some say he’s being manipulative and I’m staying out of fear. Some say I’m doing the right thing and I need to give it another shot.

 

Your thoughts are welcomed! I’m still a very confused person. This past day or so we’ve gotten along well so far and made more of an effort with each other. BUT he hasn’t read any of the books (he’s been off of work all week) or made any appointments for IT. Not a good sign I don’t think. I don’t think anyone can decide to be happy ‘cold turkey’ which is exactly what he said he was going to do.

[tojaz]

Well, i'm going to give my opinion and say that you did the right thing. I'm not saying stay with him and not saying don't, but either way it turns out, I think you'll be glad you gave it every opportunity to work. At least you'll know in your heart that it was beyond saving. I would have given precious parts of my body for six months! I think I got a week, maybe two before she left. To this day I don't know why for sure, she said many things and then recanted them all when the D was final, Happily married to different last names in five months! My point is, at least your laying your cards on the table, and giving him a chance to right what is wrong there are so many sad souls here that never received that opportunity. At least if you must walk away, you can do so with your head held high knowing you did everything you could and gave him the opportunity to do the same.

TOJAZ

[Mrs. Ambivalent]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Why some people move on and not look back without giving their spouses the chance to make things better.

 

And I think the answer is a common theme around here. OM or OW.

 

I think there are a lot of people that will stay stuck forever in a marriage that they are not happy in simply because they don't have someone else waiting in the wings.

 

I have read so many of these stories and each time I can see it coming. There is an OM or OW in the picture. I think this makes people do something that maybe they wouldn't have done. I think this makes them leave w/o looking back because they are not only running away from something they are running towards something else.

 

I will never understand it. I will never understand why if someone is not happy they don't do something about it (break up or make things better) before venturing out to find someone else.

 

Always seems like people find someone else then feel they have a reason to leave or somebody to count on somewhere else. Or that someone else makes their current situation seem worse than it really is.

 

Anyway, just thought I would throw that in there. I can't imagine dating again until the ink is dry on the divorce papers. Is it just me?

[tojaz]

Thats because you value marriage and what it means to you. Cheaters, and walkaways don't. All the more reason to give it a chance. Marriages fail, and some marriages can't be saved. If you never give it a chance, nobody will ever know what could have been, might have been. It is so important when dealing with someones heart, to be able to let go with love so as not to damage the other person. Believe me, I am damaged!:(

TOJAZ

[dazedandconfused2008]

From what ive read on here i think that you are very brave and very strong...even though it may not feel that way right now. I think you are doing the right thing...for yourself, for your children, and even for your husband. You have given a lot of thought...time...love...patience...compassion...responsibility...and yourself to this relationship and making it work. There comes a time when we must step back and look at it for what it is and ask what it is doing to ourselves and to our children? He might not be physically abusing you but what he is doing is abuse nonetheless when we really step out of the box and look at how it makes YOU feel and your children feel. I found the verbal abuse i went through was worse than the physical. Im still dealing with that even now. Love doesnt bring down...it should bring up.

 

I too, know what where you are coming from. My six children and I have left my husband after being with him for almost 18 years and its not an easy decision to make. Its been hard and I am still going through the emotions but on the days that my emotions arent taking over i am starting to see the outcome of that decision. My children are more relaxed my relationship has doubled with them all...and I take pride in what ive accomplished since i left. I have my own place, i do my own things when and how i want, I am learning to live again and most of all...starting to learn who I am...someone i lost a long time ago along the way. Most of all i want to teach my children that its wrong to be treated in a way that brings you down and is damaging. I want my kids to see that if i can do it they can do it too and i want them to be proud of me.

 

Change isnt easy and the process is different for everyone...but for the most part the outcome has been better. Its a matter of standing on your own two feet and sticking to your guns when the times get tough...and they will. I just remember to look at my kids and my surroundings and i appreciate them 100 times more.

 

Sometimes we all need a wake up call and i think you heard yours. Take care of yourself and your kids...focus on your life and future. I believe in time things just fall into place and you will find yourself where you should be. Just follow your gut and see where that takes you. Good luck.

[ryepatch]

i agree 100% with tojaz. give him 6 months. but look for progress, don't set an impossibly high bar. demand he go to MC, let him decide on his own whether he needs IC. make clear goals, let him figure out how to achieve them. he loves you, i think. he's not full of it. but give him time. i think he's starting to see the light. don't let him fall back into old patterns. but be patient.

 

find a good MC. don't go to the first person you call.

[1Angel]

Mrs. A your stories hit a nerve. We are in similar situations. Your maturity and strength are inspiring. Would it be too personal to ask how things are going financially how are you supporting yourself and two teens? Has your stbxh bothered you since separation discussion?

[Mrs. Ambivalent]

1 Angel, I'm so sorry I didn't see your question! During the time that things were good I wasn't checking this as often as I should. Here's my update:

 

I wasn’t sure if I should start a new thread or ad to this one- so here I am.

 

It’s been about 5 months since I told my husband I wanted to separate.

 

If you read my story you’ll see at the time he agreed to do ‘whatever it takes’ to make our marriage better. I bought him a few books on anger through the years and gave them to him in October when I told him I wanted to separate. At the time he said to me ‘why didn’t you give these to me sooner’ (I guess he meant to say ‘before you threatened to leave, not after’). However he hasn’t picked up a single one of them. In 5 months.

 

For about 2 months things were really great. We were connecting again, talking again and started being intimate again. I was so happy!!! All I really wanted was a great marriage with him. I didn’t really want to be divorced. I didn’t have some OM on the side waiting for me. I just knew I couldn’t live in this marriage anymore.

 

Then around Christmas things started to shift again. He was much better than he had been in the fall before our big talk, but he was starting to show his true colors again. He was miserable at times, he snapped at my sister on Christmas Eve about something very silly, he snapped at my mother on Christmas Day over something even sillier. He stayed in the basement and isolated himself much of Christmas Day when my family was here. He would come up to eat and then go back downstairs while we played games. He was being very anti-social. On Christmas morning before my family showed up he was being very snippy. He even said ‘look at all of this crap’ in front of the kids while he was looking at the tree in the middle of opening gifts. And jsyk we cut back this year and agreed on what we would spend and didn’t go over that budget. The kids didn’t want any big gifts this year so seems like there were lots of $20 shirts and $10 skateboard parts, etc., etc. So it probably looked like a lot to him but he knew we didn’t spend more than we agreed we would. I feel he was really out of line and the kids caught the comment and it made them feel bad.

 

So after Christmas was over I started to really think again about separating. I made a promise to myself on New Year's Eve that I wouldn't spend another year in Ambivalence! Either totally in or totally out!

 

We finally made an appointment with the counselor and during the entire appointment he blamed me for our marriage troubles. If I would just be nice to him he would be nice to me and the problem would be solved. That appointment really troubled me because I don’t think he’s working on our marriage as much as he needs to not be blamed.

 

So since Christmas things have been up and down. We get along for a little while then he starts again with the bad moods and the snide comments.

 

We have had 2 more appointments with the counselor and every time I leave feeling worse. I think she’s good at what she does but I think it’s his comments while we are in there that make me feel that way.

 

One of the appointments we addressed me going out with friends. In order for you to see what I’m dealing with I’ll tell the story. Towards the end of Sept I went out with a girlfriend and her mom to watch a band play. In a restaurant, not a bar. Didn’t drink (usually don’t) and was home around midnight. He was so mad at me he locked me out of the bedroom. Now this was the first time in about 7 years (years!) that I had done something like this.

 

A few weeks later I met up with my sister to celebrate her leaving her job, I stayed for about 2 hours and was home about 10 p.m. He was fine about that because he was on his best behavior since this was about 2 weeks after our talk. Then about 3 weeks later a guy who I dated (who my sister is now dating!) about 20 years ago said ‘hi’ to me on Facebook. I mentioned this to my husband because even though I’m over it now it was weird at first to have my sister dating a guy who I went out with. (20 years ago!!).

 

So when we talked to the therapist, this is what he said: The night I locked her out of the bedroom was the 3rd weekend in a row that she went out partying with her friends and left me home with the kids to make them dinner and put them to bed. (Mind you we have teenagers, not toddlers, and one of them was sleeping at a friends), couple that with her talking to her ex boyfriend and I had had enough!!

 

He makes me out to be some party girl who has reconnected with an old flame. In my opinion he’s fabricating the past to justify his behavior. The truth is I had gone out 2 nights in a month, I didn’t hear from my ex (who is my sister’s BF) until 5 weeks after that. But that’s his excuse for locking me out of the bedroom back in September. Keep in mind the night he locked me out of the bedroom was the first in 2 times and 5 weeks before the ex said hi to me on FB. He lumps them all into one event which caused him to be angry and justify what he did.

 

See what I’m saying? So this is how these appointments with the counselor are going. He starts by saying he’s been much better, much nicer to me, etc., etc., but eventually he always gets all animated and mad about something I did, and that leaves me feeling like we made no progress at all with the counselor.

 

I am feeling really down in the dumps lately because I am thinking about the fact that our kids are growing up fast and we had one chance to show them a good marriage and we blew it. I have been crying uncontrollably at night thinking about this. My H’s anger scares the crap out of me. When he gets angry it’s scary and will make anyone back down. I started thinking about this and thinking ‘gee, if it scares me imagine what it’s done to your kids’ and I cry just thinking about it. I can specifically remember times where he’s lost his cool and the kids cowered. And now I feel guilty about not speaking up sooner and protecting our kids from his venom. So I am taking all of that on and crying uncontrollably but yet he’s sitting there in front of the counselor telling her things are great, or telling her why he acted the way he did (my fault as usual).

 

So now I’m getting angry at him for the pain he has caused. It's creating even more distance between us.

 

Flash forward to this past weekend where I went to a neighbor’s house for a home party and came home later than I thought I would have. He was snippy to me all weekend because I should have called him when I knew I would be late. He was worried about me, he said. I was 2 doors down at a candle party!! I was late because I was having fun talking to the other neighbors.

 

I have come to the conclusion that if he feels like I’ve done something wrong he feels it’s o.k to punish me with his words. I’m tired of it. I think I have decided I want a divorce. He’s not going to change and I can’t live like this anymore.

 

He will be devastated. In his own way he loves me and he’ll be lost without me. So now what do I do?? I’m stuck. He’s been nice to me all week after a crappy weekend, and it's like he doesn't understand why I'm being quiet and not talking much around him. I'm tired of the cycle.

 

I have been reading this book titled ‘why does he do that’, it’s about controlling husbands and emotional abuse. There’s this quote in there that I love:

 

"Your happiness in a relationship depends greatly on your ability to get your needs heard and taken seriously. If these decisions are taken over by an abusive or controlling partner, you experience disappointment after disappointment, the constant sacrificing of your needs. He, on the other hand, enjoys the luxury of a relationship where he rarely has to compromise, gets to do the things he enjoys and skips the rest."

 

I think that sums up our marriage. If you read my first post you'll see where I think he's 'engineered' our lives to be boring. I feel like I'm always compromising and he's just enjoying this life that he insists we have. Where I feel like I'm dying inside.

 

I’m not sure where to go from here. One of the appointment with the counselor she was trying to get us to be closer, stare into each others eyes, etc., etc. I couldn’t even do it. I am so angry and upset.

 

But at the same time there is a very small piece of me that is wondering ‘am I exaggerating his behavior?’ ‘Could it work if I tried harder?’

 

I honestly feel like my gut and my instincts are telling me to leave him, but I’m not trusting my instincts so instead I’m gathering evidence in my mind against him to reason with myself that it’s o.k to go. I’m thinking about all of the bad years, all of the times I cried myself to sleep, the mean things he’s said to the kids through the years, the poems I found that I wrote YEARS ago about how unhappy I was that sounded like I wrote them right now.

 

Yes sometimes it does get better and we are getting along and we’re happy. BUT it always goes back to this. I’m tired. I can’t do it anymore. Where do I go from here??

 

Any advice/thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I'm so torn, but I know I can't live like this. I was so happy back in Oct/Nov when things were good and we were happy. I was relieved that things were better. But looking back I think he was just white knuckling his way to being happy, but he wasn't really changing. As soon as I saw him start to change back mid/late December I started retreating again and pulling into my shell. I've put up a wall so I'm not hurt again. I feel like I can't afford to invest more of myself than I can afford to lose. And I have a lot to lose (like, let's say my sanity). Then when he was snippy to me all weekend for something so silly, I again think 'I can't live like this, I can't live like this'.

 

Sigh. Thanks so much!!

[WalkInThePark]

Mrs Ambivalent, I'm sorry to hear this but honestly, the moment I read your first post I knew it would not get better.

Your H is an anger addict. He is angry because it offers him advantages. He remains in control because you and the kids are constantly trying to make sure he does not get mad.

Read "Why does he do that?" from Lundy Bancroft and the books of Patricia Evans. These books helped me a lot to recover from a relationship with an abusive man. He was a lot like your H only I was older when I met this guy and understood after a year that things would only get worse.

Your H does not own his behaviour. He is convinced that everything is your fault.

You won't make any progress as long as that is his attitude. He does not want to change things because he feels comfortable the way things are now. He is not interested in a good relationship with you and the kids.

On top of that, I think you are in danger. The fact that he threatened to kill you should be a big warning for you. If he says it, he might actually do it.

 

So my only advice for you is: LEAVE! He does not get what is wrong and he will never get it. If you leave him, he will just hate you and be horrible during the divorce. That's why you have to carefully prepare your move. This man does not love you, I think he hates you. You will notice that the moment that you will leave. But that should not be a reason to stay.

 

I understand that it is awful to break up the family unit but I am pretty sure that your kids will be happier if you leave.

[WalkInThePark]

Oh, I see that you have already read the Luncy Bancroft book. And you have understood the message. You sound like a good person and that's why it hurts you to leave your husband. But don't feel guilty: it takes two to tango. You cannot repair your marriage on your own.

[WalkInThePark]

Yes sometimes it does get better and we are getting along and we’re happy. BUT it always goes back to this.

 

He alternates good with bad behaviour because he knows that he can keep you in the marriage this way. If he would only show bad behaviour, it would be easy to give up. But by being either good or bad, he achieves two things: 1) you are constantly walking on your toes in order not to upset him 2) you will keep trying to bring the good times back.

 

You see, this behaviour is not about anger, it is about control. He does not love you, he wants to own you, you are his gadget. And he wants you to function properly = the way he wants you to function.

 

Your councellor has no experience with abusive people and therefore she does not see his behaviour for what it is.

[Mrs. Ambivalent]

Thanks Walk, I needed to hear all of that.

 

I just typed this long post and for some reason I couldn't post it. Argh!

 

But for the most part I thanked you for your input. I know what I need to do, I just need to do it. Thankfully I have a HUGE network of good friends that will help me through it.

 

As crazy as it sounds I think I will wait a few months because I think it will be easier on the kids the closer it gets to summer. If I need to pack them up and go away for a little bit, at least I won't have to worry about them and their school work, etc. Also it will give me time to save some money.

 

I am feeling so down lately. Today I am picking myself up and getting back to my life. Trying to be more cheerful, packing my gym back to get back to working out, etc.

 

I know you can't tell from my posts because it's so depressing, but I'm really a funny and fun person to be around. Lots of friends and lots of other things in my life that fulfill me. I need to get back to that and create an exit strategy.

 

Thanks again!!

[WalkInThePark]

As crazy as it sounds I think I will wait a few months because I think it will be easier on the kids the closer it gets to summer. If I need to pack them up and go away for a little bit, at least I won't have to worry about them and their school work, etc. Also it will give me time to save some money.

 

No, this does not sound crazy. You try to gather strenght and to do it at the time when it is easiest to do. Just be careful. If he will smell you are planning to leave, he will try to sabotage and become violent. Make sure a number of people know what is up and that you have some plan for when you should need to leave immediately. In any case, if your instinct ever tells you there is danger, then make sure there is physical distance between you.

 

I know you can't tell from my posts because it's so depressing, but I'm really a funny and fun person to be around. Lots of friends and lots of other things in my life that fulfill me. I need to get back to that and create an exit strategy.

 

Don't worry, I have no problem to believe that you are a fun person to be around. But being around your husband has undermined you. As a matter of fact, there is a good chance that it is actually your positive attitude which irritates him so much. Because he is unable to be like that himself.

Another book I can recommend: "Stalking the Soul" by Marie-France Hirigoyen. It is the translation of the French original. The author looks at it from a psychological perspective and I find that she describes the situation with a lot of compassion. And she says that abusive people often choose their "victims" exactly because they are vibrant, good, honest people. These abusers can't stand that. I noticed that the abusive guy I was in a relationship with, seemed to have contempt for good people and a lot more respect for a**holes as himself, as sick as that is.

 

Lundy Bancroft, Patricia Evans, Marie-France Hirigoyen: these are the authors you need to read and reread and reread. And do not suffer in silence, talk about it to friends and on message boards.

There is one thing you need to be prepared for: the divorce will most probably get very ugly. There is a good chance that the moment he sees that you have no intention to stay with him, that he will unleash all his devils. So it is very important that you shut your heart for him (yes, I know it is very painful) in order to be able to act in a rational way.

[Gunny376]

In Western Society and in many various subcultures of such men are raised from birth to feel and express only two emotional states. Anger and non-anger. Many are incapable of even feeling expressing love, joy, sorrow, etc.

 

Now I'm not all men are raised as such, but many are. Any expression of such other? Is construed as un-manly.

 

I just typed this long post and for some reason I couldn't post it. Argh!

 

When posting long posts, always copy it first from your Explorers main toolbar before hitting Submit Reply.

 

That way it doesn't post you can hit "PASTE" and hopefully you can try again.

[beanzmom]

Mrs. A:

 

I have tears in my eyes, I feel as if I wrote your post. My H is exactly the same way. In fact, he has gone to hit me once, but wound up punching himself in the head so he wouldn't. I was two months pregnant at the time and my S was within arm's reach. I left the house but went back. I shouldn't have gone back on hindsight.

 

Like your H, my H has also become anti-social. He will not voluntarily go anywhere but work and the store, but on rare occasions will go to an event the boys are having at school. He complains the ENTIRE time he's there and sucks the joy out of it all for me. I stopped going to events ore ven to dinner with friends because I was always concerned how awful the ride home would be with H. It was easier to just avoid social situations than to have to deal with H. I feel as if I've missed so much of my boys growing up because I was always worried about how H was feeling, if he was enjoying the event or if I was going to have to listen to his ranting in the car. One Christmas pageant, H was very vocal with my oldest son, saying the pageant was WAY too long (2 hours is a BIT extravagant for a kids' pageant, I have to admit) and that he lost 2 hours of his life he won't get back. WTF????? Who does that?????? My son was heartbroken. He was so excited about the pageant and his part and here's my H complaining about his being inconvenienced. Actually, it was because he couldn't drink. In the past few months I've reconnected with old friends and have developed a life for my sons and me outside of the home. It's helped to know that there is a life outside my home and work.

 

He is an alcoholic and does not support the family financially. That's up to me. I work 10+ hour days, take the kids to activities, buy all the food for the house and provide health coverage, including keeping all the kids' appointments with doctors and dentists. I also manage our finances, clean, cook and do dishes and laundry. He does nothing but work part time and play on his computer. And the money he DOES bring home he doesn't share with me so I can buy food or pay bills. he hasn't made a deposit into the checking since December, before Christmas.

 

H promised he would stop drinking IF I would give him $ex any time he wanted. So he wanted me to add prostitute to the list of duties I already carry. I told him I would step it up and did, but after two weeks of my approaching him for love, he started shutting me off. He quit drinking for a grand total of a month but went right back. The day he started drinking again he tried to start a fight with me, telling me he knew what I was thinking, even if I didn't say it out loud. I told him I would never EVER again bother him about anything. He accuses me of nagging him (actually PUSHING him too hard to succeed in life, to get a full-time job and help support the family, finish his degree so he can give our kids a better life than we had, stop drinking and being a general jerk...yeah.) so I told him I would not nag him ever again. So I barely speak to him so he can't accuse me of anything. He tried to hug me on two different occasions and I pushed myself away. If I see him approaching, I turn the other way or busy myself in a way that he can't hug me. the thought of physical contact with H makes me ill. My hair is falling out from the stress and I can't be in the same room with him. it really makes me ill. He says it's my thyroid and that I'm depressed. Not that his actions have affected me, or that he will even acknowledge that he HAS done something wrong. he just goes about life like he did nothing wrong. GAH!!! Oh, and did I mention that he is looking to hook up with someone for a one night stand? Yeah. He turned off the love and now wants to bring me home a social disease. Apparently his whole "problem" with me and our marriage is that he doesn't get enough sex. He told our MC that, as well. AMAZING!!!

 

As I said before, I'm scared to tell him to leave. I'm scared of staying with him. My health is starting to decline as a result of the constant stress and I have two young sons to care for. I can't do this anymore but am afraid to move.

 

Sorry to hijack. Your story sounds so much like my own.

Edited February 18, 2010 by beanzmom
typo

[Mrs. Ambivalent]

Hi again

 

Walk-thanks so much for the book recommendations. I tend to gobble those things up because it helps me think. I'll order them from Amazon right away.

 

I have had others (therapist included) tell me that he was attracted/drawn to my funny outgoing personality.

 

I'm going to plan carefully. I think one of the things you said hit a nerve because I know it is true. The divorce will be ugly. And right now things are quiet. But I know it's a necessary evil to get out of this marriage. Eventually I will have to face it. I am going to take the quiet time to plan and to move some momentos out of the house, copy bank statements, etc.

 

Beanz-I feel for you, I really do. All I can say is that through the years this has been my thought pattern.

 

For many years I thought to myself:

 

"I can't believe I have to live like this for the rest of my life"

 

then that progressed into

 

"I don't want to live like this for the rest of my life"

 

then "I won't live like this the rest of my life".

 

It has taken years of this to get to where I am today.

 

The problem is by design an emotionally abusive (or controlling, call it what you will) relationship has its ups and downs. If it was always bad you wouldn't take it. You would leave. So the abuser needs to have those times when things are quiet. I don't think it's intentional, I don't think my husband stays awake at night and thinks "O.K, I have to be nice for 3 more weeks then I can really give it to her". It's part of a cycle. It's those good times that someone like me (who hates confrontation) will be so happy that things are good and I will think that thankfully our marriage is now 'back on track" that I will let the bad times go.

 

Also when things are bad I'm to afraid to have an honest conversation with him about it because I'm too scared. Then when things are good you don't want to make waves.

 

It's like taking medication. Once it kicks in you forgot how bad you felt before so your mind is off of it.

 

We had almost an entire year where our marriage was pretty good. Then we went through the diagnosis of my son and he was in denial about the whole thing and not supportive at all. So then I felt like I didn't have a partner to go through this with, etc. and then that put more tension between us.

 

Marriage should be like living with a great friend (with benefits). Someone to bounce things off of, someone who has your back, someone to celebrate with when you get a promotion at work, someone to cry with when your child gets diagnosed with Asperger's, a partner to go through life with. The good and the bad. It's not suppose to be like this.

 

Thanks for your help! It's good to have someone else's perspective.

 

Oh and Gunny - I just copied just incase, thanks for the tip!

 

Have a great weekend.

[Mrs. Ambivalent]

Thanks again Walk-I just ordered 3 books from Amazon. The Verbally Abusive Relationship and The Verbally Abusive Man from Patricia Evans and Stalking the Soul by Marie-France Hirigoyen. Luckily I can have them shipped to my office so he won't see a package come here.

 

I think I know what I need to do. I'm hoping somewhere in these pages I'll feel justified in doing it because he's going to throw everything at me to make me doubt myself when the time comes. I'll need the strength of knowing I'm doing the right thing.

[silverfish]

Thanks again Walk-I just ordered 3 books from Amazon. The Verbally Abusive Relationship and The Verbally Abusive Man from Patricia Evans and Stalking the Soul by Marie-France Hirigoyen. Luckily I can have them shipped to my office so he won't see a package come here.

 

I think I know what I need to do. I'm hoping somewhere in these pages I'll feel justified in doing it because he's going to throw everything at me to make me doubt myself when the time comes. I'll need the strength of knowing I'm doing the right thing.

 

You will doubt yourself, but when you do, you'll have friends, family, LS, and more telling you you did the right thing. You can't carry on the way you are. Don't worry about how he's going to react just yet. I don't regret my decision one bit, but if there are regrets it's the way I handled it....very emotionally.

 

Now, being emotional is fine, but it sort of distracts you and makes you doubt yourself if you ruled by your emotions. I've tried not to let that happen anymore, but it's very hard.

 

On the other hand, having kids, you have to also hide your emotions, anger, sadness and so on at times, and be strong for them. That's also very difficult. If your H is anything like mine, he'll know how to push your buttons and get you angry, sad, and so on. Be prepared for this....

 

I've buried my anger, and put on a brave face so much that people don't have a clue how I really feel. Make sure you have time alone, without your kids when you are on your own (that's why I mentioned childcare before). Make sure you have all the support you need, and don't be afraid to tell your close friends what he did, how he behaved and so on...

 

Then, when you have doubts, or get angry with yourself, you'll have that support there to back you up. It sounds like you've made your decision to me, and I think you're doing the right thing. You can't always control what happens afterwards, but you're taking a step in the right direction

[Mrs. Ambivalent]

Thanks Silverfish

 

Your post made me sigh a big sigh.

 

Since I posted last I thought to myself 'you're going to sometimes feel like you might have made the wrong decision or that you embelished or imagined his behavior, but you did not. Stick to your gut'.

 

I think that's the key. To know in the future I'm going to feel quilty, sad, mad, ashamed, happy, doubtful, regretful, on and on and on. If I know it's coming then at least hopefully I won't let those feelings get in the way of the end result.

 

I'm sure a year from now I'm going to look back and wonder why I waited so long. I know there's a happier life for me on the other side of this.

 

My quandry is also what to say to my oldest (16). He's quiet and sensitive and not very talkative when it comes to his feelings. My husband threatened the last time that if it's the last thing he does he'll make sure my sons hate me. He said "I'll have my time with those boys and I'll have all of that time to make sure they know that you did this to them and eventually they'll hate you for it".

 

I feel like I need to counter attack by talking to my oldest son. BUT I am also not going to bash his father in front of him or say he's a bad person. So I need to find my balance and find a way to talk to him so if he sees my H doing these things (bad mouthing me) he'll learn to recognize it. I think a trip or two to the therapist for him during this time will be helpful.

 

Our youngest is in the Autism spectrum and is very unattached to my H. I don't think my H will talk badly about me to him or try to manipulate him. If you knew him or a kid like him you'd understand. So that's why my focus is always on our oldest.

 

I have a huge network of true friends and unfortunately for them I've been chewing their ears off for years, so they all know the story and know how it all unfolded last fall when I wanted to separate. They are such a great support for me and they will all be there for me when the time comes.

 

Thanks again, you've been a great help.

[summerautumn]

Dear, I am sorry. I feel your pain and anguish. It is good that you have such great network of friends and that you are looking for books to help you inquire deeper and aid you in these difficult decisions. I am the same way, and wanted to offer you couple of titles that I feel can potentially be life changing. You are at a crossroad point in your life, and many times such points can actually be great propellers for personal growth. You are very strong, I trust that you will go through this and will be well.

 

One of the books is Power of Now by Tolle. That book can aid you in finding the eye of the storm, and be able to act from a place of true strength in yourself. That will help you regardless of what you are facing.

 

The other is Love is Letting go of fear by Jampolski. There is a story there that the author tells about a couple who has an ill child and how they released the inner pain that was a result of the child's prolonged illness. I have a feeling you will find it helpful. It is a simple book but has gotten me through many periods of anxiety. When I read it, peace washes over me.

 

These books may be able to shift your perspective in a way that can help you be more fearless and more in tune with your children in this time.

 

Wishing you, the kids, and your husband to find inner peace.

[Gunny376]

Marriage should be just like a five year contract with an option to renew and an early out clause with penalties for non-compliance.

 

Just like the U.S Air Force does it!

[Mrs. Ambivalent]

Here are the 2 poems I found recently that I wrote years ago.

 

Scared within

Of life ahead

Two, completely different

But coming together

To love forever.

The feelings are many,

Some of doubt,

Mostly fear.

But also joy.

Forever is an eternity

Two should be trusting

Faithful and honest

Not doubtful

Of what the future could bring.

Gone too far already

To give up, or give in

But the fear is always present within

It's not my love for you that I doubt

It's this love for myself,

Not to let myself get hurt.

Two should be friends

Caring and sharing of the feelings inside

Not hateful

It's been a constant challenge

That no one wins

Unless it's us

 

 

I wrote that 5 months before we married about 18 years ago. I don't remember writing it now.

 

Then here's another one I found:

 

All alone,

I sit and think

Where is my life headed?

The path has already been chosen

I didn't know I'd be walking it alone

I thought I had a partner,

a friend for life.

Till death do us part

But at what sacrifice?

Myself?

I am lost

I don't know where I'm going

And there's no one by my side

to lead me, to guide me through

 

 

I have no idea how long ago I wrote that one since I didn't date it. But definitely years ago since it was buried at the bottom of my hope chest.

 

Thanks for letting me share. Finding these things just reminds me of how long it's been that I've felt like this. It's time for me to move on.

[silverfish]

Thanks Silverfish

 

Your post made me sigh a big sigh.

 

Since I posted last I thought to myself 'you're going to sometimes feel like you might have made the wrong decision or that you embelished or imagined his behavior, but you did not. Stick to your gut'.

 

I think that's the key. To know in the future I'm going to feel quilty, sad, mad, ashamed, happy, doubtful, regretful, on and on and on. If I know it's coming then at least hopefully I won't let those feelings get in the way of the end result.

 

I'm sure a year from now I'm going to look back and wonder why I waited so long. I know there's a happier life for me on the other side of this.

 

My quandry is also what to say to my oldest (16). He's quiet and sensitive and not very talkative when it comes to his feelings. My husband threatened the last time that if it's the last thing he does he'll make sure my sons hate me. He said "I'll have my time with those boys and I'll have all of that time to make sure they know that you did this to them and eventually they'll hate you for it".

 

I feel like I need to counter attack by talking to my oldest son. BUT I am also not going to bash his father in front of him or say he's a bad person. So I need to find my balance and find a way to talk to him so if he sees my H doing these things (bad mouthing me) he'll learn to recognize it. I think a trip or two to the therapist for him during this time will be helpful.

 

Our youngest is in the Autism spectrum and is very unattached to my H. I don't think my H will talk badly about me to him or try to manipulate him. If you knew him or a kid like him you'd understand. So that's why my focus is always on our oldest.

 

I have a huge network of true friends and unfortunately for them I've been chewing their ears off for years, so they all know the story and know how it all unfolded last fall when I wanted to separate. They are such a great support for me and they will all be there for me when the time comes.

 

Thanks again, you've been a great help.

 

I know you're worried about your son, but from what you've said before, he's on your side...he loves you, and I'm sure he wants you to be happy.

 

I know that I am a much better mother now. For one, I have a lot more time for them than before. Sounds strange as I'm a single parent, and it's supposedly very hard to manage etc....I haven't found that at all.

 

I think it's because my exH took up so much of my thoughts and energy, I was exhausted by it. It was like having another child at times, and I don't say that lightly.

 

Your son probably feels some of the tension that you feel, after all, he lives with this man as well. I know my boys felt it too...they've talked about it a little, and had their own problems with their dad when they've spent time with him on their own.

 

If you think it would help, it might be good to get your son to come along to counselling with you, to discuss with him why you are leaving and so you know that its a neutral setting. I always tried to be neutral about things, but then if you are too much that way, your kids end up thinking 'well why the hell are you splitting up then?'