My W wants to communicate with my xOW now that it is over.

[EsmerKiss7]

Do you think you can trust your W again as well DI?

[GreenBamboo]

I don't understand why the W wants to contack the fOW. The OW can choose to ignore W's email, or hang up on her call, she may have no intention to have any contact to the W at all.

 

She may also contact the H to tell his W to leave her (OW) alone.

[bentnotbroken]

Where did it say his wife being bitchy? I don't recall DI saying that.

 

 

Lizzie only believes that she is being that way because she doesn't want to ever have to face a BS who might be strong enough or mental enough to give her pause.

[EsmerKiss7]

I don't understand why the W wants to contack the fOW. The OW can choose to ignore W's email, or hang up on her call, she may have no intention to have any contact to the W at all.

 

She may also contact the H to tell his W to leave her (OW) alone.

 

Yup... It's all just more fuel for the fire really.

[2sunny]

DI.. how about telling your W that you have no way to contact the OW.. that she has moved and you have no idea where she is now...

 

huh? just add more lies to the lies she's already been told? i strongly do NOT recommend lying any further - unless you really want to get rid of your wife in a quick way.

 

the idea is to heal... no matter what the course... the truth is what will determine how the healing goes. to keep secrets at this juncture just roadblocks any possible healing.

 

in turn - she needs to be truthful to any requests DI may have in order to move forward as well.

 

i'm sorry for the latest turn of unexpected events DI. has she given you any information that will help you with forward movement in the marriage?

[Lizzie60]

Bottom line.. DI... you do what YOU think is best for your M... if you think that your W should NOT contact the OW.. then take all necessary measures so she won't find her...

 

You know your W better than anyone here.. you know what's best for both of you...

 

Trust your instinct on that one.. Good luck!

[EsmerKiss7]

Lizzie only believes that she is being that way because she doesn't want to ever have to face a BS who might be strong enough or mental enough to give her pause.

 

 

I'm not sure if being strong or mental enough to give pause really has anything to do with it, it seems more like scapegoating to me by bypassing the real problems like why did he seek an OW in the first place, why did she seek OM's, etc, etc. and going to the OW; and how can you give someone pause when you yourself cannot stop and figure out why your doing what your doing?

 

Note: In saying you and your, i don't mean you BntB I just mean "you" in general.

[Lizzie60]

Sometimes I have this strange feeling that some LSers give advices only to see more drama in others' already turbulent life..

[2sunny]

Sometimes I have this strange feeling that some LSers give advices only to see more drama in others' already turbulent life..

 

and some of us give advice based upon the life experiences we have survived. and are willing to express to others what worked in a positive way for us being in that situation - and what didn't work for us while in a certain situation.

 

has NOTHING to do with drama... just life experience. we all make suggestions - he can take them or leave them.

[bentnotbroken]

I'm not sure if being strong or mental enough to give pause really has anything to do with it, it seems more like scapegoating to me by bypassing the real problems like why did he seek an OW in the first place, why did she seek OM's, etc, etc. and going to the OW; and how can you give someone pause when you yourself cannot stop and figure out why your doing what your doing?

 

Note: In saying you and your, i don't mean you BntB I just mean "you" in general.

 

 

I know. We all use the general.

[SidLyon]

Devil,

 

If you are intending to attempt to rebuild and strengthen your marriage then I have to strongly disagree with the thought that you should actively prevent your W contacting the OW and should withhold relevant contact details.

 

I realise that this is not the best outcome for your OW and that you are worried that further details might come to light that may either hurt your W or even sway her one way or another about staying married to you. Your W, assuming she is an intelligent woman, will be aware of this possibility and is unlikely to contact the OW except if she is ready to hear things. If you haven't already told your W that you loved the OW then you really need to tell your W that. If you are honest with her now then it's less likely she will get any unpleasant surprises. I also understand that you simply don't want them in contact with each other now, any more than you did while the A was ongoing. Please understand that it's no longer just about what you and the OW might want.

 

I interpreted my H's aversion to me contacting the OW in several ways including that he wanted neither of us to be hurt further and that he was worried she would tell me additional things that might hurt me.

 

For me though, the contact with the OW especially the meeting which was 6 months after d-day represented a turning point (and a positive one at that) although I knew my H was extremely stressed at the thought of it.

 

If he had withheld details or continued to strongly press for NC between me and the OW it would have been highly detrimental to our recovery.

 

I know each case is different and you are getting a lot of conflicting advice in this thread. But could I suggest that this is one instance where you consider carefully the perspective of the people giving the advice. The people who are BWs will have a much better understanding of your W's motivations and reasoning than will those who were in the A (such as MM and OW).

 

What I have gleaned overall is that contact between the OW and the BW can be very useful for the recovery of the BW but possibly detrimental for an OW. You will hold all the cards if your W cannot get contact information from anywhere apart from you. This means that you have a lot of control. My advice is give your W the details if you want to facilitate your marriage recovery and withhold the information if you are not sincere about it.

 

S

[Sanafa]

I tend to agree with Syd on this one.

 

I have had no contact with the W, however I made it clear that if she wanted to, she could.

 

And when I did speak to MM yesterday, was very clear that one - he could involve his W in the conversation ( as seeing each other will not be easy for any of us) and two I in no way wanted her to think I wanted to go back.

 

The only thing I ever told him in that regard was that I would not lie to her about anything... if she asked, I would be honest.. I wouldn't be mean.. but I would be honest.

 

I don't think he is a "fan" of the idea.... but I am also fairly certain that he would not avoid it if asked of him. Guessing but that is my take on it.

 

It goes back to treating each other as humans and simply understanding that their are 3 people in an affair, like it or not.

 

The only thing I find "odd" is that it was already long over before you confessed and that she as well has been unfaithful... certainly a rather complex situation.

 

While I think waiting for your IC/MC to weigh in isn't a terrible idea... the question then becomes... what will you do if it isn't in your favor.

 

Tough one as that was what happened to MM..... and he had to make a decision based on the choice to work on the Marriage, even if it wasn't ideally what either wanted.

[SoAddicted]

To all the BS's that said she may need it for healing what happens if the OW does not respond and refuses all communication with the W? How would that effect the M? I guess I just don't get how the BW healing process can depend on OW.

 

Just because W wants to speak with her does not mean that OW will be all for it. She lives in another state, there is no way for W to track her down or bump into her.

 

DI, I think if your W persists then give her OW email address that way you're not breaking NC and if OW wants to tallk to her they can exchange numbers.

[Sanafa]

To all the BS's that said she may need it for healing what happens if the OW does not respond and refuses all communication with the W? How would that effect the M? I guess I just don't get how the BW healing process can depend on OW.

 

Just because W wants to speak with her does not mean that OW will be all for it. She lives in another state, there is no way for W to track her down or bump into her.

 

DI, I think if your W persists then give her OW email address that way you're not breaking NC and if OW wants to tallk to her they can exchange numbers.

 

I also agree that the OW may not respond at all, especially if she has come to terms with the A and she decides it is not in her best interest.

 

And another reason that maybe talking it through with the MC is a good idea as she may find herself more frustrated and the " festering" could begin if OW decides to ignore her.

[SidLyon]

You are both right the OW may not want to respond in any way to the W.

 

But as a BW I can tell you that this was irrelevant to me - I fully accepted that the OW might not respond but it actually didn't matter to me in my healing process. What was important was that I did what I felt was right. So no, my healing did not depend on whether or how the OW responded; but on what I did.

 

I'm about to reactivate a thread of mine from last week.

 

Sid

[jennie-jennie]

I know each case is different and you are getting a lot of conflicting advice in this thread. But could I suggest that this is one instance where you consider carefully the perspective of the people giving the advice. The people who are BWs will have a much better understanding of your W's motivations and reasoning than will those who were in the A (such as MM and OW).

 

I wouldn't be surprised if many of us have experiences of several sides of the triangle. I for one have been not only the other woman, but also the BS and the WS. My memories of being the BS are vivid and painful enough for me to take that into account while offering my thoughts on any matter here on LS.

 

Is a MM who has confessed the A and is doing everything in his power to be honest and rebuild his marriage supposed to lose his integrity and turn into a doormat who no longer values his own thoughts on these matters?

[SidLyon]

...

Is a MM who has confessed the A and is doing everything in his power to be honest and rebuild his marriage supposed to lose his integrity and turn into a doormat who no longer values his own thoughts on these matters?

 

I'm not quite sure why you raised this Jennie as you are now the only person who has suggested that a MM might lose his integrity and turn into a doormat. Were you trying to set up a straw man?

 

In his original post Devil asked: "Did any BS's in here talk to the OW/OMs after the A was over. Did it help with anything?"

 

Hopefully most of us who are BS's who talked to the OW/OM have been trying to give answers to his question - certainly I did. My answer is yes it helped me but I doubt it helped the OW. I can't remember now but did you answer his question and give your experience as a BS who talked to the OW? If not it might be worth answering now about your own experience of talking to the OW when you were a BW.

 

Sid

[tami-chan]

Hi DI! After your wife's MANY infidelities-how did she put back the fragments of your broken vows back together? or did she?

 

Why do you feel so guilty about your relationship with your xOW? What vow have you broken that was not already broken by your wife many times over?

 

I have been reading your posts and I think your wife is quite lucky to have someone like you- not perfect, yes. Fallible, yes but always trying to be fair while dealing with the "devil inside".

 

If there is any promise that you should keep, you should keep that unwritten promise to your xOW that you will protect her anonymity from your wife. She did her part. Do your part. It's about time you keep your part of the agreement.

 

The way I see it, your wife has no right to demand anything from you regarding your affair. I think she should thank her lucky stars that you care enough for her to work through your issues.

 

You should leave the xOW alone. You owe it to her.

[jennie-jennie]

I'm not quite sure why you raised this Jennie as you are now the only person who has suggested that a MM might lose his integrity and turn into a doormat. Were you trying to set up a straw man?

 

In his original post Devil asked: "Did any BS's in here talk to the OW/OMs after the A was over. Did it help with anything?"

 

Hopefully most of us who are BS's who talked to the OW/OM have been trying to give answers to his question - certainly I did. My answer is yes it helped me but I doubt it helped the OW. I can't remember now but did you answer his question and give your experience as a BS who talked to the OW? If not it might be worth answering now about your own experience of talking to the OW when you were a BW.

 

Sid

 

To me the concept of doing whatever the BS requires to get healed whether it opposes one's own values or not, whether one believes it is in her or the marriage's or even one's own best interest or not, turns the MM into a person without integrity and a will of his own. This concept is the essence I perceived from plenty of the BS's posts above. My comment was not directed to you, Sidlyon, it was a general comment.

 

As for my own experience, there were many, many OW. My ex SO had one night stands, he had flings, he had serious romances with other women. Some of them he told me of immediately, some months or years later, some went on and off during our relationship. Some of them were acquaintancies, one was one of my best friends, some he had sex with in our apartment and even in our bed. The most serious one was an EMR he had during my first pregnancy. I never felt the need to talk to them in person. I pumped every detail out of my SO instead.

 

One woman in particular I hated. I still hate her. She would not let go of my SO. She kept coming back for years, and used his bad conscience to get back in his mind. He got involved with her when she was new in AA and he was an old member, which is considered a no-no. I would meet her at 12-step meetings now and then. We had kids in the same school. I never talked to her. Why would I talk to such a manipulative, lying b!tch as that? I knew my SO had told me everything I needed to know. When he confessed his affairs, he was always truthful. Why confess them if you are going to continue to lie?

 

So perhaps that is my conclusion as a BS, that DI's wife needs to learn to trust him again, to realize that he is trustworthy and that he is telling the truth, to realize that he is trying to do what he considers is best for them. They are a couple. Why should she suddenly call all the shots? There are times when, as Lizzie said, you need to put your foot down: "DI.. put your foot down.. and tell your W that there will be no contact ever again.. and that she will have to take your word for it.. period."

[Lizzie60]

Hi DI! After your wife's MANY infidelities-how did she put back the fragments of your broken vows back together? or did she?

 

Why do you feel so guilty about your relationship with your xOW? What vow have you broken that was not already broken by your wife many times over?

 

I have been reading your posts and I think your wife is quite lucky to have someone like you- not perfect, yes. Fallible, yes but always trying to be fair while dealing with the "devil inside".

 

If there is any promise that you should keep, you should keep that unwritten promise to your xOW that you will protect her anonymity from your wife. She did her part. Do your part. It's about time you keep your part of the agreement.

 

The way I see it, your wife has no right to demand anything from you regarding your affair. I think she should thank her lucky stars that you care enough for her to work through your issues.

 

You should leave the xOW alone. You owe it to her.

 

Well said.. I totally agree..

[VictoryisMine]

Lizzie60, Tami-chan, jennie-jennie.. i agree with y'all.

 

I have been the betrayed spouse... and the other woman.

 

As the betrayed spouse when i finally, by accident 'saw' the other woman, ....NOW there was an actual body and face to picture having sex with the man i was so in love with. This made me more furious. And for the longest time i had severe panic attacks whenever i saw a white car with a woman in it with medium length brown hair.

 

DI and his wife are coping with an AFFAIR, an ACT. And that issue is between the two of them. IMO.

[silktricks]

I'm not saying she is wrong for wanting to talk to her...or that I don't understand...just that this is an act that effects three people...not just us two.

 

This sounds like you are choosing to protect your former lover at the expense of your wife's mental health. If that's your choice, then that's your choice, but please don't pretend that it's for the good of all, it's not for the good of your wife, it's for the good of yourself and your former lover. If your wife needs to speak with the OW, then that's what she needs.

 

If you've truly chosen to remain married and rebuild the marriage, though, then you need to work at rebuilding the trust in the marriage. You are not doing that.

 

Though I do understand your desire for them to not have contact, it's really not your choice anymore. At most you should ask your wife to wait a few months and see if she still feels like it at that point. She may have gotten past the need by then.

 

In answer to your actual question. I did not speak to the OW. I wanted to, though. I called her. She hung up as soon as she heard my voice. (She had been calling our house for months and hanging up as soon as I answered, so she knew my voice.)

[Lizzie60]

I just don't get it.. why is it OK to invade someone's privacy in the name of someone else's mental health? To me, that doesn't make sense..

 

This type of invasion is, IMO, harassement, pure and simple..

[Lovely10]

I've been following DI's threads and have been reading all of the posts. I remember DI saying that his wife wasn't into sex and that his OW was. I suppose that might not have been all that accurate after all.

 

You have to figure out who it is you are going to be going to bed with every night. If it is your wife, then I'd say it would probably be a good idea to do what she requires. If your life is going to be elsewhere then do as you personally wish without regard to her feelings.

 

Figure out how many eggs you have and which basket you plan on putting them in. And... proceed accordingly. Sometimes it boils down to proving allegiance. OW is an adult and when she slept with you she stepped into your marriage. A marriage that involves two people, not three. She has every right to duke it out with the OW in any way she sees fit. If it were me I'd hire a private investigator to locate her and by the time that rolled around the trust, if any, between me and my husband would be shattered beyond repair. I'd find out one way or the other. Better it comes from the spouse.

 

As for your wife's infidelities. I don't agree that one act mitigates the obligations to the other. She owes you. You owe her. One does not cancel out the other. IMO.

[MistyK]

This sounds like you are choosing to protect your former lover at the expense of your wife's mental health. If that's your choice, then that's your choice, but please don't pretend that it's for the good of all, it's not for the good of your wife, it's for the good of yourself and your former lover. If your wife needs to speak with the OW, then that's what she needs.

 

If you've truly chosen to remain married and rebuild the marriage, though, then you need to work at rebuilding the trust in the marriage. You are not doing that.

 

Here's the thing that keeps getting ignored - DI is still reeling with finding out that his W has lots of affairs and that she had a PA. Maybe he needs some time to figure out if this M is even worth salvaging. He's dealing with the same shock that she is, so can we please relax about worrying about his W's needs right at this second? She surely wasn't worried about his with 20 other men. And right now I see ZERO about how she is trying to be transparent to him. To me, it sounds like she seized upon an oppurtunity to deflect attention away from her own infidelity.