2 years since I found out..

[eeyore1981]

And I can't say I have come too much in the way of resolution.

I wanted to talk about this, so we were riding around, I was trying to get answers other than "I don't know". We pulled over and talked for a while. Mostly I talked, while he remained silent, or told me such illuminating things such as previous, or his other standby, "I don't remember." Hours later, which really was unnecessary timewise if he didn't pretend to not know what I was asking for, pretend to misunderstand what I was saying, etc., you guys probably have heard or experienced all these crafty little dialogue tricks employed by compulsive liars, he was finally in an uncomfortable position, at which point he decided, as he always does, after all the hard work and time I invest to even make it to this point, the conversation is over. I told him I wasn't finished. He started the truck and started to leave. I opened the door and threatened to jump out, so he stopped and I got out. This was 11:30pm, we were about half a mile from our house. He pretty much had the choice of deal with the unpleasantness he was feeling and deal with this, or let me walk home, because I am tired of him always getting to decide when I am done. I walked home. I wasn't in the least surprised, either.

Anyway, 2 years after finding out about his affair, and 25 years of putting up with all his other crap, and there has been so much of it I doubt I will ever get rid of the smell, I am done. I told him about 15 minutes ago, woke him up to tell him, because as usual he is sleeping like the dead while I am awake fighting massive stomach trauma, to find another place to live, the sooner the better.

I can honestly say I did not deserve this. I wasn't treating him very well for about a year leading up to his affair, but that came about because he did something to me that was inexcusible. At the time, it was just the latest of a long line of stuff he did to me, but this thing pushed me too far, so my crime was I began to treat him just exactly as he treated me. No better, and no worse, exactly the same. This was at year 21 of being his wife, of making excuses for how he treated me, blaming myself for how he treated me, trying to be a better wife, trying to fix, fix, fix our problems, even though he was the cause of most of them...His response was to treat me even worse than he had been.

The past 2 years he has actually treated me pretty well, except for that one pesky little thing, the affair. His attitude is he isn't having contact with her anymore, so I shouldn't have a problem. His attitude is it is ok to lie about it as long as he thinks I won't find out. His story makes little to no sense, and in spite of his opinion to the contrary, yes, it does matter to me if he slept with her or not, how strong his feelings were for her, and for him to stop lying to me, among other things. He says with his mouth he understands how I can't trust him with all the lies I actually caught him in, but his actions, attitudes, and the rest of the stuff he says strongly insinuates I should believe whatever he says, because he said it.

I could have been over the worst of my pain a long time ago had he chosen to come clean. We could have been in a lot better place in our marriage right now, or I could be 2 years down the road to a better life by now, but that's not what he wanted. I feel like if someone broke into our home with a gun and said he was going to shoot one of us, my oh so loving husband would point his finger at me and say, "Shoot her." How do I make a marriage out of that?

Sorry for the long, rambling rant. I am so depressed, and I feel so worthless right now, like, how did I let 25 YEARS of my life go by like this??? I never dreamed I was so effing stupid.

[eeyore1981]

For clarification, my old username was eeyore1980. I thought it was, but I couldn't remember my password, and when I tried to get the reminder, it wouldn't send it for 80, but it did for 81. Then it made me re-up, and it was several days before I finally got the email so I was allowed to post. I wish this hadn't happened, because I really, really needed some feedback at that time, but oh well. Anyway, I didn't realize the name was different until tonight, when I saw I had 0 previous posts. I'm sure the screw-up is mine, but I am in no shape to try to fix it now. Hope this doesn't make things even more confusing .

[pruh74]

His attitude is he isn't having contact with her anymore, so I shouldn't have a problem. His attitude is it is ok to lie about it as long as he thinks I won't find out. His story makes little to no sense, and in spite of his opinion to the contrary, yes, it does matter to me if he slept with her or not, how strong his feelings were for her, and for him to stop lying to me, among other things. He says with his mouth he understands how I can't trust him with all the lies I actually caught him in, but his actions, attitudes, and the rest of the stuff he says strongly insinuates I should believe whatever he says, because he said it.

 

I'm so sorry about all of this. I know exactly how you feel. This is exactly what my H is doing right now but my D day was only on the 4th. If it makes you feel any better, I think you're doing the right thing. I stayed with H way too long but in the end, at least you know YOU did everything YOU could to make it work.

 

(No matter what the s***heads might say about it. )

[2sure]

I related completely to your very good description of the dialogue of infidelity. The back and forth, the countless words, the time, the physically exhausting effort on your part simply to have him say I dont know/I dont remember. More often than not...all of your efforts are not to learn more details or even for explanations to the question How could you?....The relapse to questioning is for one reason only and it isnt to get answers. You already know most of the answers or there wouldnt be questions to begin with.

 

What you are trying to do is give him the chance, again, to be a man. To say the words. To own what he has done to you. He cant. He doesnt have what it takes. And thats the problem. Cheating can be forgiven. But the small cheap man you have before you ...even you cant make him a real man, the man you wish him to be. Because you are strong enough to hear the words, to bare the injury - you would think and cannot understand why he is not strong enough to just say the words.

 

I get it. But I dont know why. I guess he's just an as*hole like my H.

[65tr6]

, because as usual he is sleeping like the dead while I am awake fighting massive stomach trauma,

 

eeyore, i just don't know what to say....yes i agree with you. cheating can be forgiven but when there is no remorse and lies continue, it is just impossible to move forward together.

 

I hope you find the strength you need in this very difficult situation to move forward alone....I sincerely wish you the very best.

[xpaperxcutx]

Yes, cheating can be forgiven, yet not necessarily forgotten. You've already given the better half of your life to a worthless man who can't own up to his actions. Even worse, the entire time it was you forcing yourself to make things better, forcing yourself to justify his mistakes, when it should have been him who should have been the on putting in the effort.

 

During these last two years did he in anyway put in the effort? You said he treated you well but how does that account for the fact that he's only doing to get on your good side and not because he was repenting?

 

It's over. He decided first and foremost to undermine the marriage with an affair. He forsake your feelings and now he's pretending to live on like as if nothing has occurred.

 

Do you plan to have a D?

[eeyore1981]

Thanks, everyone.

 

I swear I wasn't wasted last night when I posted, just destroyed.

I'm still having a very rough time. I don't have anyone in person to talk to. My best friend right now is actually a MM, also friends with my husband, and while I think he would be a great shoulder to cry on, I'm not even going there.

I need to get back into therapy, but it is at least a 50 mile trip one way to get to one. Man, I am just feeling like I have no where to turn for any relief.

[eeyore1981]

Yes, cheating can be forgiven, yet not necessarily forgotten. You've already given the better half of your life to a worthless man who can't own up to his actions. Even worse, the entire time it was you forcing yourself to make things better, forcing yourself to justify his mistakes, when it should have been him who should have been the on putting in the effort.

 

During these last two years did he in anyway put in the effort? You said he treated you well but how does that account for the fact that he's only doing to get on your good side and not because he was repenting?

 

It's over. He decided first and foremost to undermine the marriage with an affair. He forsake your feelings and now he's pretending to live on like as if nothing has occurred.

 

Do you plan to have a D?

 

BBM

That's just it. He had the affair, not me. I tried to find things to fix our marriage, and had the expectation for him to do the same, but he just sits around waiting for me to tell him what to do.

I wanted MC, he agreed to go. We went. After several sessions, it came to my attention he wasn't only lying to me, he was lying to the therapist. I told him to go to IC and deal with his lying. He went to one session, with the same woman we had been using for MC. He wasn't able to make it the next week because he had to go out of town. I waited for MONTHS for him to make another appointment. I finally confronted him. He went two more times. Again, I waited months, confronted him again, and he went one more time. So in the last 2 years, we went to MC 3 or 4 times, that was put on hold for him to get his sh*t straight so the MC would actually be productive, and he has managed 4 whole appointments. Whoopee.

That is one instance of too many to count of why I'm done.

Yes, divorce is in my near future. I can't think of anything he can do now to make this better, and he has proven he is not going to initiate any cleaning up of his own mess. He never has, and I don't know why I thought this time would be any different.

[JumpinJimmy]

Eyeore, first you are not stupid..not even close. You gave yourself into the marriage as you should have, and when you found out you were betrayed, you still stuck with him for 2 yrs to make the marriage work. You have done everything that you possibly could, the rest is up to him and he has choosen to take you for granted. Yes, it is time for you to move on. Also, you have choosen to move on without another person waiting in the wings , and in by doing so your are taking the moral high ground...good choice, it will help with your happiness later.

[HappyAgain]

OMG, I could have written this myself after my marriage ended. The same "I don't know's" and "I don't remember's" beings his favorite answers, him always trying to end the conversation without letting you say your peace or even caring that you had something to say, the years of my life that he wasted by always pretending and lying, my trying to fix the relationship and assuming all the responsibility when he was the one with the problems.

 

Having been away from the situation for a while now, I can say that it does get better and the regret of wasting your life will go away and you will find happiness one day soon.

 

Hang in there.

[eeyore1981]

OMG, I could have written this myself after my marriage ended. The same "I don't know's" and "I don't remember's" beings his favorite answers, him always trying to end the conversation without letting you say your peace or even caring that you had something to say, the years of my life that he wasted by always pretending and lying, my trying to fix the relationship and assuming all the responsibility when he was the one with the problems.

 

Having been away from the situation for a while now, I can say that it does get better and the regret of wasting your life will go away and you will find happiness one day soon.

 

Hang in there.

 

Thank you so much. Your first paragraph is pretty much how it is right now, and your second paragraph I am really hoping is how it is in the very near future.

 

We just had another mini debate. I told him I still want him out. 2 years is way too long to try to make someone understand they don't get to take what I say I need and run it through all their filters so they can decide if they think I need it or not, and then act accordingly. My head is killing me.

[HappyAgain]

Glad to help. My ex used to do that too: he would debate if I had a right to feel or think the way I did. It used to be so frustrating, seeing that the person who is supposed to love you, not actually caring what you are feeling but determining if you have the right to feel that way.

 

I will be honest, the happiness didn't come right away, I went through a lot of emotions, the whole grieving process, anger, sadness, guilt. It's been over a year since I left him and I realized one day that it just doesn't bother me anymore and that I just don't care what is going on with him anymore.

 

I think we can beat a dead horse only for so long before we have to admit that it just isn't going to get up and go where we want it to go. That's how I finally viewed my marriage. I tried and tried to be a better spouse but I had to finally admit that I wasn't the one that needed to be fixed anymore. When you've been together for very long long, it takes a long time to finally accept that it's over but you'll get there one day and in time, you will see that you can have happiness away from the relationship.

[mnm]

Something similar here but a little different. I get the I don't knows and can't remembers and we should never bring this up again its in the past. But the stories are never the same that's what drives me nuts. I want to yell at him to give it to me straight.

 

Here's the upside: He is remorseful, and has made a lot of changes in his personality, but I worry when I try to have deep conversation about love and relationships, he backs away.

[Spark1111]

Many who engage in affairs have INTIMACY issues. Rather than examine what is missing from within, they look for a quick fix from someone outside the marriage.

 

Yes, I too, get the I don't remembers, and I forgot, some of which is true, true, true.

 

But some of it is also the "I don't want to remember," or I need to forget, which serves them very well and can cripple the BS immensely.

 

More therapy, much more therapy for them.

 

As for you, if you can no longer stand it, then don't. You cannot force anyone to do anything, even if they proclaim to love you.

[seren]

Like you I am 2 yrs out from Dday and 25 years into our relationship - 21 yrs married. reconciling needs truth to try to rebuild trust. I finally had all the truth 6 months after Dday, without it we would not be where we are today. It can become an obsession, the needing to know what and how and where and of course the real big one why. I am lucky that my H gets it - gets the need for me to rehash and revisit until my brain gets bored with asking the same thing and until I get it. What I have found is that when my world settles and life is good that I need to revisit and ask the same things over and over, sort of like OK I am happy, we are in love, H is so remorseful and I get it, I understand why and know about where and how, but what next? To trust with everything again and risk hurt or move on?

 

I think they some get so caught up in their guilt that they just don't want to talk about it, sort of conflict avoidance behaviour, which is why many of them got into an A in the first place. I wrote H a long letter and gave him my journal to read, included the letter to WS that I got off SI about filling in the blanks - he got it, understood the depth of hurt and the need for answers (some of which hurt like hell and frankly made me vomit) and so we were able to see that it wasn't he or I that needed to fix our M but us. Right now, I have never been happier, never thought to say that 2 years ago - but that is down to H being honest, me listening and being honest about what I needed for us to work and while there are days the A bites my arse and I want to run for the hills, it is better than it has been for a long time. I suppose what I am long windedly saying is that leaving is often a dammed sight easier than staying - but if it is still you doing all the fixing maybe he needs a wake up call.

[eeyore1981]

I could write pages telling of all the stupid crap my husband had done to me or put me through. I could also write pages of wonderful things my husband has done. Too bad the first would far outnumber the second.

 

I'm a talker, I want to say how I feel, have him say how he feels, and then honestly and maturely find a middle ground we can both be happy with. He is a liar, an evader, etc. Whatever.

 

Last night we had started in about it again, initiated by me. I'm an honest person, and it drives me crazy to be lied to. This is something I am working hard on gaining control over, and I ended up leaving and driving around for a while just to make myself stop. He mentioned during our mini-debate I had told him I wanted him to leave, and I told him I still do. Before I got out of here last night, I told him our marriage hadn't been all bad, there had been some very good years in there. Even the last 2 years, we had had some small stretches of time where we were so close and so happy. That proves we could have an excellent marriage, if he wasn't so intent on refusing to let it happen. I then said OW must have been a spectacularly incredible person for him to, after not even being with her for the past 2 years, be so determined to sacrifice what could be a wonderful life right now just to protect her and the memory of their affair. (That last was a jab by me, OW is a horrible person, and about the only thing I am 100% sure of is H is disgusted this is who he chose to have an affair with.)

So far today, I am feeling a little better. We have a trip to Florida booked, and I told him day before yesterday I wasn't going, and I'm not telling him again. I'm thinking about taking off today to N. Carolina to visit my cousin for a little while.

[eeyore1981]

Like you I am 2 yrs out from Dday and 25 years into our relationship - 21 yrs married. reconciling needs truth to try to rebuild trust. I finally had all the truth 6 months after Dday, without it we would not be where we are today. It can become an obsession, the needing to know what and how and where and of course the real big one why. I am lucky that my H gets it - gets the need for me to rehash and revisit until my brain gets bored with asking the same thing and until I get it. What I have found is that when my world settles and life is good that I need to revisit and ask the same things over and over, sort of like OK I am happy, we are in love, H is so remorseful and I get it, I understand why and know about where and how, but what next? To trust with everything again and risk hurt or move on?

 

I think they some get so caught up in their guilt that they just don't want to talk about it, sort of conflict avoidance behaviour, which is why many of them got into an A in the first place. I wrote H a long letter and gave him my journal to read, included the letter to WS that I got off SI about filling in the blanks - he got it, understood the depth of hurt and the need for answers (some of which hurt like hell and frankly made me vomit) and so we were able to see that it wasn't he or I that needed to fix our M but us. Right now, I have never been happier, never thought to say that 2 years ago - but that is down to H being honest, me listening and being honest about what I needed for us to work and while there are days the A bites my arse and I want to run for the hills, it is better than it has been for a long time. I suppose what I am long windedly saying is that leaving is often a dammed sight easier than staying - but if it is still you doing all the fixing maybe he needs a wake up call.

 

I could probably be where you are today, if my husband chose to 'get it'. I think the big difference between your husband and mine is your husband is willing to put your needs before his own, and mine is not. Never has been, and apparently never will be.

This isn't a wake-up call. I'm done. I'm no longer willing to be in a relationship where I give and he takes. In looking back over our marriage, I can see very clearly the only time I got my way is when it didn't cost him. There has been very little in the way of sacrifice over anything by him. The last 2 years have been his final chance, and he blew it. Too bad, because I have finally realized I am a lot to lose, and he is not.

[seren]

Slight T/J but I so hoped the A was unavoidable, sort of love at first sight, fireworks, the whole 9 yards - like if you are going to hurt me so badly and risk our marriage, make it a good one and please say you loved her!! The indifference and the knowing he is grossed out by who it was just hurts so much more. OW is not so bad and I get pissed at him saying bad things about her - bloody ironic really that I get angry at him bad mouthing her.

Sorry for T/J something you said echoed with me.

[seren]

Eeyore, you sound like you have come to the end of your rope, and are looking to the future. I agree it needs them to make the effort to show remorse and an acknowledgment of what a crock A's are. I think we (people generally) sometimes put up with crap because constantly being the dooers and fixers becomes the norm and somehow we get lost in all this and forget to put our needs first. Old me left the building 2 years ago, new me would never put up with an A.

[eeyore1981]

Slight T/J but I so hoped the A was unavoidable, sort of love at first sight, fireworks, the whole 9 yards - like if you are going to hurt me so badly and risk our marriage, make it a good one and please say you loved her!! The indifference and the knowing he is grossed out by who it was just hurts so much more. OW is not so bad and I get pissed at him saying bad things about her - bloody ironic really that I get angry at him bad mouthing her.

Sorry for T/J something you said echoed with me.

 

The last year before his affair, I was treating him like he treated me. He uses that as his excuse, but it isn't true. 2 years before that, 3 years before the affair started, I watched him hitting on our married neighbor, then they moved and the new neighbor was single and he was hitting on her, also the wife of one of our friends, the woman next door to our office in the beauty shop, and at least 2 women he dealt with over the phone in our business. I said something a couple of times, but mostly just simmered in silence. For some reason, I really believed he would never cheat on me.??? Anyway, no, it wasn't fireworks, it was just the first woman he was putting the make on that responded back.

[mnm]

Like you I am 2 yrs out from Dday and 25 years into our relationship - 21 yrs married. reconciling needs truth to try to rebuild trust. I finally had all the truth 6 months after Dday, without it we would not be where we are today. It can become an obsession, the needing to know what and how and where and of course the real big one why. I am lucky that my H gets it - gets the need for me to rehash and revisit until my brain gets bored with asking the same thing and until I get it. What I have found is that when my world settles and life is good that I need to revisit and ask the same things over and over, sort of like OK I am happy, we are in love, H is so remorseful and I get it, I understand why and know about where and how, but what next? To trust with everything again and risk hurt or move on?

 

I think they some get so caught up in their guilt that they just don't want to talk about it, sort of conflict avoidance behaviour, which is why many of them got into an A in the first place. I wrote H a long letter and gave him my journal to read, included the letter to WS that I got off SI about filling in the blanks - he got it, understood the depth of hurt and the need for answers (some of which hurt like hell and frankly made me vomit) and so we were able to see that it wasn't he or I that needed to fix our M but us. Right now, I have never been happier, never thought to say that 2 years ago - but that is down to H being honest, me listening and being honest about what I needed for us to work and while there are days the A bites my arse and I want to run for the hills, it is better than it has been for a long time. I suppose what I am long windedly saying is that leaving is often a dammed sight easier than staying - but if it is still you doing all the fixing maybe he needs a wake up call.

 

 

I know this thread is for someone else, but I just have a question serene: Did it take your H awhile to get it? To get what you needed to heal and to get over it? Did he try to gloss it over for a while and how did you finally get him to see what you needed? My H has made a ton of changes personality wise since the A but doesn't get my need to have full disclosure.

[eeyore1981]

I know this thread is for someone else, but I just have a question serene: Did it take your H awhile to get it? To get what you needed to heal and to get over it? Did he try to gloss it over for a while and how did you finally get him to see what you needed? My H has made a ton of changes personality wise since the A but doesn't get my need to have full disclosure.

 

BBM

I started this thread, but have no proprietary feelings for it, lol, so don't sweat it.

This is a good question, and I wonder the same thing.

[mnm]

Many who engage in affairs have INTIMACY issues. Rather than examine what is missing from within, they look for a quick fix from someone outside the marriage.

 

 

That is my H he's never been able to fully be intimate, he's scared of being vulnerable. Comes from his childhood. Family never ever talked about ANYTHING! Still don't and if there are problems in the family, they run and tell EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE what is going on. No privacy no sense of family at all.

 

Not trying to run anything, but this site is one of the best eye openers. It's helped me understand myself and my H better.

 

Sorry Eeyore for taking up space again! LOL

[eeyore1981]

That is my H he's never been able to fully be intimate, he's scared of being vulnerable. Comes from his childhood. Family never ever talked about ANYTHING! Still don't and if there are problems in the family, they run and tell EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE what is going on. No privacy no sense of family at all.

 

Not trying to run anything, but this site is one of the best eye openers. It's helped me understand myself and my H better.

 

Sorry Eeyore for taking up space again! LOL

 

My H is the same. The times I have been able to slip past his barriers have been so great, but every time it can only last so long before he sabotages it again. It's a shame, but his refusal to let himself be happy has also made me miserable, and enough is enough.

Take up all the space you want. I'm in a very lonely place right now, and it helps having people to talk to.

[mnm]

I know what you mean about slipping through for a short time. It's only been a few months for me not 2 years like you.

 

I'd be in your shoes right now if there hadn't been changes. We are having major behavioral issues with our 10 yr old and had to admit him for help.

 

A few months ago he would have put the blame completely on me and criticized my parenting all the while stepping back and not dealing with it making me handle it all. He's always sidestepped discipline to a degree b/c he didn't want to deal with it. Thought I should be able to handle the kids myself if they were out of line.

 

My H is really trying and has made some huge progress in the way he treats me and the kids, how he deals with family issues, and the things that used to set him off or shut him down he's don't bother him anymore. I talked to him a little about the changes. He told me he's an a$$*()& and realizes what he has in front of him and that life is not all about him.

 

This is a side I've never, ever seen. It's scary after so many years of the same, it will take time to get used to this. I hope it stays this way.