WHY do you think you are in a sexless marriage?

[carhill]

What defines emotional closeness/intimacy? (and what is so great about it in case if i'm missing the point?)

IMO, you have to define it for yourself. Everyone is different. My particular version is one, proactive, not reactive, and, two, global, not situational. I communicated examples of this to my wife when we were going through MC. One example which stands out was asking her, if she was going to take the time to stop by the shop to say goodbye before going to work, to get out of her car and come into the shop rather than honking her horn at me. You need to understand 'the shop' is only a couple hundred feet from the house. I often interrupted my jobs/tasks to go up to the house and see her off to work in the morning and greet her in the evening, often with home-cooked meals. It was personal, caring and proactive. She didn't 'ask' or 'expect'. Ultimately, I determined she didn't 'appreciate' it either. Promoting in a man the feeling of being unappreciated is a clear way to get a man to leave the woman, sex or no sex, IMO.

 

Another example of our differences in physical affection would be that I enjoyed giving foot and back massages, and listening to her share her day, an activity which I did find sexually arousing. She enjoyed popping the zits on my back, something which caused me pain rather than pleasure. I never (rarely is more accurate) got the sense that she was interested in or caring about how I felt or my life. She was there and that was enough for her. It would have been fine for her if I was just there, in the room. She said as much. We just had different ideas of what closeness entailed.

 

You can only ask for what you want for so long before it becomes redundant. If the languages don't match up, and there is no desire to understand the translation, then IMO it's better to let it go and move on, which is what I've done.

 

I'll add, as a footnote, that she wasn't like that when we were dating, much as men here have said that their wives were more sexual until they got married. There ya go....hook em, gut em and eat em

[AlektraClementine]

Male here - married 10 years. Years 3-8 were basically sexless.

 

I believe the key to my wifes sexual re-awakening was figuring out what turned her on - I'm not talking about strictly sexual things - I'm talking about me as a person. A lot of people will say it's not YOU it's the low-libido person with the problem. Try telling them that - they don't have a problem at all as they feel fine! It is you with the problem and it's you that needs to change. She is not going to change until she has a reason to. If you were to change something about YOU - and I mean REALLY change something - what harm can come of it?

 

Turned out I was just too nice. I wanted US to make all the decisions together as husband and wife. I'd ask her about my clothing choices, where should we eat, where should we go on vacation. etc. So I figured out I was "too nice" to my wife. It's hard to explain the changes I made - I still am an active father, we still do all the chores together - probably even more so. I've not turned into a dominating jerk.

 

I guess part of me believes that I grew up. I no longer think - if I do the dishes that will put her in a better mood and maybe she'll want sex. I think - if I do the dishes, the dishes will be done and that is what I want. I no longer ask her what I should wear, or what belt should I buy or where shall we go to dinner. I wear what I want (knowing what she likes me to wear). I tell her where we are going to eat (knowing what she likes to eat).

 

So despite her being very opinionated, strong willed etc - my being a "nice guy" was subconsciously turning her off. All the time I thought that being nice to her and letting her have a say in everything was a good thing. I really thought - how can I do anymore for her/be any nicer and not see the results in the bedroom? I had it so totally backwards. I am now much more assertive within our relationship. It's not like I tell her do things. It's more along the lines of I take the lead in making a lot of decisions. If she feels strongly against something I take a step back. It's still a democracy but I'm the man and she's the woman.

 

Maybe it's partly about her respecting me as a man. I wish I could explain it better.

 

When I started it was very difficult to be something I was not used to being - I was outside of my comfort zone. But in my head I made it be an experiment - that way if I hated it or it made things worse then I knew I could change back. Fortunately the new me and my much more aggressive and manly behavior worked and we are doing better than ever - in and out of the bedroom.

 

Being more manly and aggressive may not work on your wife - but something else might. Leaving her might wake her up. Getting a ripped body might do it. Dressing up as Darth Vader - who knows but that's the challenge - finding out what makes her hot. But ultimately you can't change her - you have to change as the current YOU is not having a positive affect on her libido.

 

Sorry to ramble but for years I tried dozens of things and none of them worked - but it was an interesting (but sometimes frustrating) journey. It was still much better than the status quo and when I finally hit on the things that got her going like when we first met it was all worth it. Now she's more adventurous and has a higher sex-drive than I do - be careful what you unleash!

 

 

 

I get you. My fiance is like you (the former you). Sometimes I feel very patronized. Like he's doing nice things with an agenda. Not an evil one, just a "this will keep me in her good graces" agenda. Sometimes I'd like for him to just take the lead and stop being so, well..nice. Thus far, it hasn't diminished my drive for sex....but I certainly don't climax very often.

 

Let me ask you a question. Do you feel at all jaded now since making this change? Do you feel like you gave up something inherently "sweet" about yourself in exchange for sex?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Please believe me, I don't want to win! For the most part, I want to compromise. I realize that in certain situations, one of the spouses is going to win, while the other looses. In these cases, I try to keep things balanced out. For example, I let my husband paint the kitchen the color he wants, and when it's time to paint the bedroom, it's my choice. Bad example, I know, but I think it gets the point across.

 

 

Hey I too think I am trying to compromise.... My wife considers it trying to win....

[carhill]

Sometimes I feel very patronized. Like he's doing nice things with an agenda. Not an evil one, just a "this will keep me in her good graces" agenda.

 

Great example of the issue surrounding perception and translation. Tell me, can you identify the aspect of your psychology which would lead you to such a belief? This process was critical work we did in MC.

 

I got this feeling that, after I died, my wife would say, to others "I guess he was a good man after all". What a prison

[JackJack]

I'm starting to wonder if some of these people that have such a negative outlook on their situation is partly WHY they are still in a sexless relationship. I'm sure their spouse's must pick up on it.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Already indicated 8 - Past Hurt

 

9. Not attractive enough (though I look/weigh pretty much the same outside aging as 23 years ago).

 

10. Not successful enough (no Donald Trump, but earn enough today, but not in the past where we certainly needed two incomes, that she does not have to work right now).

 

Just being honest....

[tnhusband]

Let me ask you a question. Do you feel at all jaded now since making this change? Do you feel like you gave up something inherently "sweet" about yourself in exchange for sex?

 

Not at all - I still feel very much like myself. I'm still me. My behaviors have changed for sure but after about 3 years it's become who I am.

 

And I never viewed it as strictly a way to get more sex - I wanted her to want me, be attracted to me, I wanted her to think about sex. This all occurred - us actually having sex was just one of the benefits/results.

 

Our communication - sexually and non-sexually has really improved.

[AlektraClementine]

Great example of the issue surrounding perception and translation. Tell me, can you identify the aspect of your psychology which would lead you to such a belief? This process was critical work we did in MC.

 

I got this feeling that, after I died, my wife would say, to others "I guess he was a good man after all". What a prison

 

My psychology? Yikes, I thought this was his problem!

 

Let me explain it in a situational sense. Example: something he does irritates me (i.e. something to do with another woman or something to do with his time management). I probably react in some way but not out loud, but suffice it to say, I'm not my normal bubble, engaging self. He then will spend hours, literally hours touching me, smooching me, following me around telling me that he loves me.

 

My psychology says "he's avoiding the issue". Also - it feels disingenuous. I want nothing to do with false affection.

 

 

But I am also avoiding the issue during those times.

[carhill]

So, why not confront the issue?

 

You're describing male manipulation here, the tool a man uses to mask imperfections in himself by reverting to the romantic he was when he captured your heart. It's a subset of the pragmatism of the Cheer's Effect. It has worked in the past. As long as you 'give in' and accept the behavior, it will be guaranteed to continue. Positive reinforcement. Pavlov's dog

[Lovely10]

Not at all - I still feel very much like myself. I'm still me. My behaviors have changed for sure but after about 3 years it's become who I am.

 

And I never viewed it as strictly a way to get more sex - I wanted her to want me, be attracted to me, I wanted her to think about sex. This all occurred - us actually having sex was just one of the benefits/results.

 

Our communication - sexually and non-sexually has really improved.

 

 

Yes, yes. I agree with everything you've communicated in your posts. It isn't that I, as a woman, want a dominating jerk... but I want to feel his masculinity. The way I did when we first met. He was hot for me. I was, in turn hot for him. It is feeling him as a man.

 

The doing the dishes thing doesn't get a woman hot. I'm sorry it simply doesn't. Nor does whimping out doing things to get her in the mood. That is manipulation and perhaps that is the cornerstone for why there is a belief that her lack of 'caving' to the male program is viewed as manipulation and control. Men post that they've tried everything. There's a saying that goes like this... if you want a different result don't keep doing what you are doing. Try something different. This man did. He brought it out of the control context and made it about rekindling his own masculinity and it worked.

 

If a woman is overwhelmed with children and housework... even if she is a stay at home mom... get her a maid instead of helping with housework. Retain your masculinity at all costs. Familiarity can breed contempt. Keep close to someone... but sometimes you have to do that by not being so accessible.

[Sam Spade]

IMO, you have to define it for yourself. Everyone is different. My particular version is one, proactive, not reactive, and, two, global, not situational. I communicated examples of this to my wife when we were going through MC. One example which stands out was asking her, if she was going to take the time to stop by the shop to say goodbye before going to work, to get out of her car and come into the shop rather than honking her horn at me. You need to understand 'the shop' is only a couple hundred feet from the house. I often interrupted my jobs/tasks to go up to the house and see her off to work in the morning and greet her in the evening, often with home-cooked meals. It was personal, caring and proactive. She didn't 'ask' or 'expect'. Ultimately, I determined she didn't 'appreciate' it either. Promoting in a man the feeling of being unappreciated is a clear way to get a man to leave the woman, sex or no sex, IMO.

 

Another example of our differences in physical affection would be that I enjoyed giving foot and back massages, and listening to her share her day, an activity which I did find sexually arousing. She enjoyed popping the zits on my back, something which caused me pain rather than pleasure. I never (rarely is more accurate) got the sense that she was interested in or caring about how I felt or my life. She was there and that was enough for her. It would have been fine for her if I was just there, in the room. She said as much. We just had different ideas of what closeness entailed.

 

You can only ask for what you want for so long before it becomes redundant. If the languages don't match up, and there is no desire to understand the translation, then IMO it's better to let it go and move on, which is what I've done.

 

I'll add, as a footnote, that she wasn't like that when we were dating, much as men here have said that their wives were more sexual until they got married. There ya go....hook em, gut em and eat em

 

 

Alright; that's along the lines I'm thinking. I wouldn't care too much about the actual way in which affection is manifested, as long as some form of affection is demonstrated after all. So, I guess that means that sex is not a bad proxy. Your ex wife may be the exception, but generally women have hard time (supposedly:rolleyes::rolleyes:) doing it without actual affection.

Your ex seems to be super disconnected and unemotional. What are the odds? Or perhaps we are just falling for the bullshet that women are caring and compassionate . Not based on what I've seen on these forums.

[carhill]

Her experience of what love was/is supposed to mean was vastly different than mine, especially during those critical years when her brain was forming. It's a simple issue of incompatibility, mainly in emotional setpoints. I've experienced women since who are emotionally compatible as well as those who are not, and found the revelations to be heartening. For me, sex flows from intimacy and emotion, literally. As much as I tried to show my wife this, and as much as I tried to show her love in her language, we just didn't get there once the honeymoon period was over. Just about that time, my mom got sick, which did not help things. Still, it was up to us to prioritize our M and we're both responsible for that failure. You know what they say about heat and pressure. Sometimes they form volcanos and sometimes diamonds.

[Vlad]

That stuff women tell you about them losing interest in sex because of the kids, and the home environment and how you are not being romantic enough with them etc etc is all b.s. (can I say b.s. in here?, if I can’t please erase those words for me mods)

 

As soon as the find a new guy they feel attacked to, she will have sex with him like she had sex with you before you married her, she will be the wild girl you once meet, don’t even think otherwise my friends she is just not attracted to you anymore, I suggest you move on and be happy with other girl. Because she will do the same with another guy.

 

And if you guys are pretty sure she is not into another guys might be because there is no man interested in your girl right now as soon as there one around, then is all over

[mem11363]

TNHusband:

There is a woman on here who said this about sexless marriages.

"The woman gets turned off sexually when the man loses his edgy masculinity".

 

And clearly in some cases she gets turned back on when he regains it. Well done.

 

The great thing about changing the conversation from "how much do you help around the house", to what is it that makes a MAN a MAN is this. You don't hear from the guys whose wives were shutting down out of anger because the men weren't doing their fair share of housework. And you never will. See - those wives say - baby - no sex tonight - I am tired - and I am angry - I am NOT your Mother or your Maid. So help out more and I will rock your world. Or be selfish and go in the bathroom and masturbate. Those guys have a very clearly defined problem which they promptly solve.

 

But the guys whose wives are sexually averse over masculinity issues have a problem that is 10 times harder to solve. It is harder to define exactly what you want him to change, and it is possible he will get confused and think aggressive/combative equals masculine which is not what you want in a partner. And to be fair I honestly believe that if two things happen simultaneously:

- The mans masculinity fades AND

- The wifes life gets harder/more stressful due to having children

She may be much more inclined to think it is the "kids/environment" causing her loss of desire. Which leads to the - do more house work suggestion - which is a total train wreck when that is not the real problem.

 

 

Male here - married 10 years. Years 3-8 were basically sexless.

 

I believe the key to my wifes sexual re-awakening was figuring out what turned her on - I'm not talking about strictly sexual things - I'm talking about me as a person. A lot of people will say it's not YOU it's the low-libido person with the problem. Try telling them that - they don't have a problem at all as they feel fine! It is you with the problem and it's you that needs to change. She is not going to change until she has a reason to. If you were to change something about YOU - and I mean REALLY change something - what harm can come of it?

 

Turned out I was just too nice. I wanted US to make all the decisions together as husband and wife. I'd ask her about my clothing choices, where should we eat, where should we go on vacation. etc. So I figured out I was "too nice" to my wife. It's hard to explain the changes I made - I still am an active father, we still do all the chores together - probably even more so. I've not turned into a dominating jerk.

 

I guess part of me believes that I grew up. I no longer think - if I do the dishes that will put her in a better mood and maybe she'll want sex. I think - if I do the dishes, the dishes will be done and that is what I want. I no longer ask her what I should wear, or what belt should I buy or where shall we go to dinner. I wear what I want (knowing what she likes me to wear). I tell her where we are going to eat (knowing what she likes to eat).

 

So despite her being very opinionated, strong willed etc - my being a "nice guy" was subconsciously turning her off. All the time I thought that being nice to her and letting her have a say in everything was a good thing. I really thought - how can I do anymore for her/be any nicer and not see the results in the bedroom? I had it so totally backwards. I am now much more assertive within our relationship. It's not like I tell her do things. It's more along the lines of I take the lead in making a lot of decisions. If she feels strongly against something I take a step back. It's still a democracy but I'm the man and she's the woman.

 

Maybe it's partly about her respecting me as a man. I wish I could explain it better.

 

When I started it was very difficult to be something I was not used to being - I was outside of my comfort zone. But in my head I made it be an experiment - that way if I hated it or it made things worse then I knew I could change back. Fortunately the new me and my much more aggressive and manly behavior worked and we are doing better than ever - in and out of the bedroom.

 

Being more manly and aggressive may not work on your wife - but something else might. Leaving her might wake her up. Getting a ripped body might do it. Dressing up as Darth Vader - who knows but that's the challenge - finding out what makes her hot. But ultimately you can't change her - you have to change as the current YOU is not having a positive affect on her libido.

 

Sorry to ramble but for years I tried dozens of things and none of them worked - but it was an interesting (but sometimes frustrating) journey. It was still much better than the status quo and when I finally hit on the things that got her going like when we first met it was all worth it. Now she's more adventurous and has a higher sex-drive than I do - be careful what you unleash!

[carhill]

Here's a newsflash. If I *like* to do housework, I do it. If I *like* to sew a quilt, I will. If I *like* taking my race car to the track, I will. I've never let *a woman* define what *I* like. All this performing to women shyte has got to stop. Men are the ones to stop it. Quit f*cking the manipulating biotches of the world and we can change things. I'm doing my part. Quit being wimps or joining them in manipulating. You'll never win, however, you might *buy* them with success. For now.

[2sure]

I thought we were not having sex because of his jobs. I thought he was tired, stressed, etc.

 

Then I found out about all this cheating with strangers . So now, for us to have sex hell will have to freeze over. But from what I can tell...he just doesnt like intimacy. He enjoys sex but for some reason intimacy isnt something he has the balls for.

[carhill]

2sure, happy to see you posting and I hope H gets his balls handed to him. I'll bet he 'faked' intimacy with aplomb, with strangers and his targets. You knew differently though. A spouse always knows, on some level. Stay well

[mem11363]

Lovely10 - This is so well said. Thank you.

 

By the way - I agree with the point regarding "whimping out doing things to get her in the mood" - domestic begging. Seems to be a huge turnoff judging by results.

 

You mention "not being so accessible."

A couple times early on in our marriage when the desire equation got too far out of balance, I put myself on a project at work that required me to travel for over a year. Suddenly I was only home on the weekends. I am convinced that is why we survived that long rough patch. We are now in year 20 and travel is no longer needed nor wanted by either of us.

 

 

Yes, yes. I agree with everything you've communicated in your posts. It isn't that I, as a woman, want a dominating jerk... but I want to feel his masculinity. The way I did when we first met. He was hot for me. I was, in turn hot for him. It is feeling him as a man.

 

The doing the dishes thing doesn't get a woman hot. I'm sorry it simply doesn't. Nor does whimping out doing things to get her in the mood. That is manipulation and perhaps that is the cornerstone for why there is a belief that her lack of 'caving' to the male program is viewed as manipulation and control. Men post that they've tried everything. There's a saying that goes like this... if you want a different result don't keep doing what you are doing. Try something different. This man did. He brought it out of the control context and made it about rekindling his own masculinity and it worked.

 

If a woman is overwhelmed with children and housework... even if she is a stay at home mom... get her a maid instead of helping with housework. Retain your masculinity at all costs. Familiarity can breed contempt. Keep close to someone... but sometimes you have to do that by not being so accessible.

[mem11363]

But I do not have a wife whose autonomic sexual arousal subsystem has turned itself OFF. My wife would never pressure me to race cars instead of quilting. And I am not interested in her feedback on my choice of hobbies - unless of course it is to ask if she wants to participate since that makes it more fun.

 

Lets say we have a guy who feels unloved because he is dealing with a spouse who is turned off by him. He needs to decide whether he thinks that is simply her darn problem and she needs to figure out how to regain her desire for him, or whether there is a basic set of desire triggers that he can likely hit which will change their interaction. Is it a bad thing for instance maybe for him to learn to hold his farts until he gets to the bathroom?

 

 

 

Here's a newsflash. If I *like* to do housework, I do it. If I *like* to sew a quilt, I will. If I *like* taking my race car to the track, I will. I've never let *a woman* define what *I* like. All this performing to women shyte has got to stop. Men are the ones to stop it. Quit f*cking the manipulating biotches of the world and we can change things. I'm doing my part. Quit being wimps or joining them in manipulating. You'll never win, however, you might *buy* them with success. For now.

[carhill]

Here's some better clothes. Try on a wife who wears "I don't care". Again, a different path. You're new here. There's a lot of paths. A lot of joy. A lot of pain. Part of life

[Untouchable_Fire]

Just curious here. Lots of posts about being in a sexless marriage. So my question is, to those who are in one now or have been, do you know why you might be in one? Has your spouse come out and told you why?

Did MC, if you went, help you figure out why you were in one with with your spouse? I'm sure some have no clue and are left in the dark about WHY they are not getting their needs met sexually. BUT its possible some may really know why, and are telling the whole story, while others may not be telling the whole story. So, whats your story?

 

I got married young, and it went from every other day to once a month, the moment I said "I Do".

 

I tried everything under the sun to fix it. I did all the chores, tried to make sure she felt sexy... ect. About 6 months in I just got so frustrated I couldn't care less about her. I got involved with another woman.

 

Now, the interesting part is that when she found out, she went ballistic... but then our sex life became amazing! That lasted nearly a year, then things changed again, so 6 months later I requested a divorce.

 

So, here is what I think. I think there is something instinctive in the female sex drive that is based around keeping a guy around. A guy will never ever be so attractive as when he is hard to keep. That's my theory.

[mem11363]

You were lucky in one very critical way. Your ex tried to "flash fry" you. She radically changed her behavior right after marriage. And you then hit her with a harsh consequence.

 

Many spouses - men are just as guilty of this - gradually change their behavior after marriage. They become more and more indifferent to the needs of their spouse and as long as their is no consequence they keep slowly pushing the envelope. If your wife had done "THAT", and in concert she had effectively kept the conversation about YOU, about how all you wanted is "sex", about how you always pressure her which turns her off, how you don't help enough around the house, etc. She might have slowly convinced you over a period of years that you were just lucky that she stayed married to you at all. And that you should be greatful for any crumbs of affection, kindness, love or sex that she showed you.

 

I think "before" marriage you need to have a talk about what a great marriage is. Because it can either be about making the other person as high a priority as possible, or it can be about doing as little as you think you can get away with, without getting divorced.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I got married young, and it went from every other day to once a month, the moment I said "I Do".

 

I tried everything under the sun to fix it. I did all the chores, tried to make sure she felt sexy... ect. About 6 months in I just got so frustrated I couldn't care less about her. I got involved with another woman.

 

Now, the interesting part is that when she found out, she went ballistic... but then our sex life became amazing! That lasted nearly a year, then things changed again, so 6 months later I requested a divorce.

 

So, here is what I think. I think there is something instinctive in the female sex drive that is based around keeping a guy around. A guy will never ever be so attractive as when he is hard to keep. That's my theory.

[JackJack]

I wonder what it is I must be doing wrong then? Or what it my wife must be doing wrong? Feel kind of left out, I mean maybe we're the oddballs here, ha!

 

I've been married for a few years, and haven't seen my wife "change" after the , "I DO" part, yet. Maybe that comes later on.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I got married young, and it went from every other day to once a month, the moment I said "I Do".

 

I tried everything under the sun to fix it. I did all the chores, tried to make sure she felt sexy... ect. About 6 months in I just got so frustrated I couldn't care less about her. I got involved with another woman.

 

Now, the interesting part is that when she found out, she went ballistic... but then our sex life became amazing! That lasted nearly a year, then things changed again, so 6 months later I requested a divorce.

 

So, here is what I think. I think there is something instinctive in the female sex drive that is based around keeping a guy around. A guy will never ever be so attractive as when he is hard to keep. That's my theory.

 

Boy that is sad.... What a pessimistic theory on on marriage and females..... Hope it is not true....

[Sam Spade]

I got married young, and it went from every other day to once a month, the moment I said "I Do".

 

I tried everything under the sun to fix it. I did all the chores, tried to make sure she felt sexy... ect. About 6 months in I just got so frustrated I couldn't care less about her. I got involved with another woman.

 

Now, the interesting part is that when she found out, she went ballistic... but then our sex life became amazing! That lasted nearly a year, then things changed again, so 6 months later I requested a divorce.

 

So, here is what I think. I think there is something instinctive in the female sex drive that is based around keeping a guy around. A guy will never ever be so attractive as when he is hard to keep. That's my theory.

 

Haha, I'm glad you got out of this one!

And yes, I agree that in a sense you got lucky for her changing rapidly.

That's why I'm pretty sure it is important to be especially vigilant about any signs of disrespect. I'm also pretty sure that the one credible way to pull this off is to realize that no sex and no affection whatsoever - ever - is much better than staying with some ho that thinks that she's got you and throwing you scraps of attention as a treat suffices. But, it is still hard to recognize and treat early, I imagine.