Lishy Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 Yes I can believe it is so stressful right now and I am sorry to hear that! Defo get a friend to do it and do it soon so that you know where you stand. Good luck x
Author Lauriebell82 Posted October 13, 2009 Author Posted October 13, 2009 Yes I can believe it is so stressful right now and I am sorry to hear that! Defo get a friend to do it and do it soon so that you know where you stand. Good luck x Fiance is going to call and see what my company will say about me. He came up with a really good speech, it sounds legit.
JamesM Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 Fiance is going to call and see what my company will say about me. He came up with a really good speech, it sounds legit. Just remember two words....caller ID.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted October 13, 2009 Author Posted October 13, 2009 Just remember two words....caller ID. They don't have caller id on the phone from an outside line. It just says "outside call" it doesn't list the number unless it's an extension from inside the building. They are behind the times.
Star Gazer Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 Well, I was fired but not for a bad or problematic reason. It's confusing, I don't even understand it myself. I was good at my job. My bosses just hated me and wanted to get rid of me so they found anything they could to get rid of me. I'm actually not even sure of the reason, they were extremely vague. That's why when it comes to the interview I don't even know what to say because I don't know why. LB... if you were fired, as opposed to laid-off as a result of a reduction-in-force, it was for a "bad or problematic reason." It had to have been. I'm really concerned about why you don't understand the reason stated though. Didn't you ask for clarification? Knowing this WILL help you in your next position, so perhaps you should contact your ex-boss, not to find out what they will say, but to learn from the experience and to learn about how you can improve at the next place. My fiance thinks I should call my old boss and find out what he is telling employers. (that's what we have been arguing about) I don't think that is going to help though, he could very well lie to me and tell me that he is giving me a good review and not actually do so. I'm confused, is my work having something to do with the fact that I can't find a job? I don't know... Quite possibly. Or, it could be interview related... or experience related... You won't get those answers, even with your BF's call. But I am very curious to see what they tell him!
Ariadne Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 I have no idea what my work would even say about me. My fiance thinks I should call my old boss and find out what he is telling employers. That is important. You have to find a good contact (a friend or someone you got along well with) and ask them to be your reference. Don't give any other name but the phone of the headquarters. By law they are not allowed to say something that will prevent you to get a job, but if you give them the phone number of the people who hated you, then they won't say anything good.
Ariadne Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 (Btw, after being forced to resign from a previous job, and after being unemployed for three years, I called a cool boss of mine and asked him to be my reference. He agreed and then asked, who are you going to apply for?! I said, let's say.. for the competition! and we both had a good laugh. I got the job and an increase in salary as well).
Author Lauriebell82 Posted October 13, 2009 Author Posted October 13, 2009 Okay so fiance called my ex boss. He said he was from a placement agency and asked him questions about my performance. My ex boss told him that he could not give out information about performance, only dates of employment and my position. Fiance then asked why I left the position and he told him that "the position didn't work out for her." And that's all he said. He wasn't descriptive and he didn't say that they fired me. So I feel better with the knowledge that he didn't bash me or say anything horrible about me. Now I can interview and say that the position didn't work out and that I wanted to pursue another field of counseling.
SadandConfusedWA Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 Okay so fiance called my ex boss. He said he was from a placement agency and asked him questions about my performance. My ex boss told him that he could not give out information about performance, only dates of employment and my position. Fiance then asked why I left the position and he told him that "the position didn't work out for her." And that's all he said. He wasn't descriptive and he didn't say that they fired me. So I feel better with the knowledge that he didn't bash me or say anything horrible about me. Now I can interview and say that the position didn't work out and that I wanted to pursue another field of counseling. The problem is that this doesn't paint you in a very positive light either. Your future employer can read between the lines. My guess would be that this is the major obstacle for you getting a job. Do you at least have some very good references? I feel like the main reason that I got a job that I am at now are stellar references from my previous bosses (I actually called up my former bosses to ask what they are going to say and then we colluded in what's best to say for a particular position). The only way for you to counteract that is to interview absolutely flawlessly and be so convincing that they believe in you despite this - it's not an easy task but it's not impossible.
norajane Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 The problem is that this doesn't paint you in a very positive light either. Your future employer can read between the lines. My guess would be that this is the major obstacle for you getting a job. Do you at least have some very good references? I feel like the main reason that I got a job that I am at now are stellar references from my previous bosses (I actually called up my former bosses to ask what they are going to say and then we colluded in what's best to say for a particular position). The only way for you to counteract that is to interview absolutely flawlessly and be so convincing that they believe in you despite this - it's not an easy task but it's not impossible. Legally, companies are only able to confirm dates of employment, position, salary, and whether you would be eligible for rehire. That's what any HR department will tell a prospective employer, and that's all they'll tell - it's standard and applies across the board. So, a prospective employer getting that answer will not see anything amiss. They won't be reading anything between the lines UNLESS the employer says you are not eligible for rehire. That is why prospective employers ask for a list of references as well - they know they get minimal info from HR. LB, there must be someone you worked with there who didn't "hate" you and who would be willing to provide a positive reference. It doesn't have to be your "boss". It can be someone else in the department that you had interactions with. Failing that, I'd get letters of reference from your school professors or other training you've done. Or contact them and see if they'd be willing to speak to prospective employers when they call.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted October 13, 2009 Author Posted October 13, 2009 Legally, companies are only able to confirm dates of employment, position, salary, and whether you would be eligible for rehire. That's what any HR department will tell a prospective employer, and that's all they'll tell - it's standard and applies across the board. So, a prospective employer getting that answer will not see anything amiss. They won't be reading anything between the lines UNLESS the employer says you are not eligible for rehire. That is why prospective employers ask for a list of references as well - they know they get minimal info from HR. LB, there must be someone you worked with there who didn't "hate" you and who would be willing to provide a positive reference. It doesn't have to be your "boss". It can be someone else in the department that you had interactions with. Failing that, I'd get letters of reference from your school professors or other training you've done. Or contact them and see if they'd be willing to speak to prospective employers when they call. For my three references I listed two of my coworkers who worked in my hall so they saw a lot of what I did. I also listed my internship supervisor, as the work I did at my internship was similar to what the job I am applying for. So my references are really good and will paint me in a good light.
SadandConfusedWA Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 Legally, companies are only able to confirm dates of employment, position, salary, and whether you would be eligible for rehire. That's what any HR department will tell a prospective employer, and that's all they'll tell - it's standard and applies across the board. So, a prospective employer getting that answer will not see anything amiss. They won't be reading anything between the lines UNLESS the employer says you are not eligible for rehire. That is why prospective employers ask for a list of references as well - they know they get minimal info from HR. LB, there must be someone you worked with there who didn't "hate" you and who would be willing to provide a positive reference. It doesn't have to be your "boss". It can be someone else in the department that you had interactions with. Failing that, I'd get letters of reference from your school professors or other training you've done. Or contact them and see if they'd be willing to speak to prospective employers when they call. I do not live in US but things work differently around here. Bosses can legally give out POSITIVE information and praise your performance but they are not allowed to say if you were fired.
norajane Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 For my three references I listed two of my coworkers who worked in my hall so they saw a lot of what I did. I also listed my internship supervisor, as the work I did at my internship was similar to what the job I am applying for. So my references are really good and will paint me in a good light. Then you shouldn't have any issues. Now you have to turn to other possibilities for your challenging job search. You might not have enough experience for the positions you are applying for, or have less experience than other candidates. In this economy, I imagine there are quite a few people who have suddenly found themselves without jobs who have a lot of experience. My guess is you're competing against people who have been in the field a long time but are willing to take a starting-level job just in order to have a job. Especially if they have children and mortgages. The other option is your interview skills. You seem to feel confident about those. Maybe it's worth a call or email to the places you interviewed to ask what you could have done to make yourself a stronger candidate?
Author Lauriebell82 Posted October 13, 2009 Author Posted October 13, 2009 You might not have enough experience for the positions you are applying for, or have less experience than other candidates. In this economy, I imagine there are quite a few people who have suddenly found themselves without jobs who have a lot of experience. My guess is you're competing against people who have been in the field a long time but are willing to take a starting-level job just in order to have a job. Especially if they have children and mortgages. This would be what my guess is. People are getting laid off who have much more experience then I do but are applying for the same level job and beating me out. There are a lot of people hiring, but it's only for like one position within their agency.
allina Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 Well, I was fired but not for a bad or problematic reason. It's confusing, I don't even understand it myself. I was good at my job. My bosses just hated me and wanted to get rid of me so they found anything they could to get rid of me. I'm actually not even sure of the reason, they were extremely vague. That's why when it comes to the interview I don't even know what to say because I don't know why. LB, I do not want to pick on you or try to get you to tell us hat mistake you made or what happened if you don't want to. But I do want you to understand that your view on what happened is going to hurt you. Please understand that a boss will not just "hate" you. Bosses do not want high turn over rates or to have to retrain people. You have to come to grips with what error you made and how it cause things to go down hill at you job. You don't have to tell us anything but figure this out for yourself. Make a list of negative things your old boss said to you. Write out what they told you when they let you go. I'm sorry LB, but I don't believe that your boss hated you for no reason and just wanted to get rid of you. If you honestly believe that then you're not being honest with yourself or proactive in securing a good career. I like you and I am absolutely not trying to be mean. Also, I would strongly suggest calling your old boss and flat out asking for things you did to cause you to lose your position. Don't say "Why did you fire me? What did I do?" But tell him that you're feeling down and a little confused about the situation. Tell him that you want a career in counseling and would love any feedback on what exactly went wrong. I know this is too intimidating for many people to do but it would help you so much. Remember, at the end of the day your old boss is some guy you never have to see again. Get anything you can out of him to better your situation in the future.
Pink Cupcakes Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 Could you just leave off your last job off your job history and say that after you got your Masters you lived at home due to family emergency (mom dying of cancer, whatever?) and that you are just now pursuing work?
Art_Critic Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) I think as long as you have a decent amount of time at your job.. ie : a year or more then getting fired in today's world is meaningless.. If you have a job for 3 months and get fired then a prospective employer will frown on that.. In today's world employers are sometimes firing for cause even though they don't have to and cause can be just about anything today.. It's a competitive market out there.. even in the employed market.. They just don't want you to collect unemployment or they wanted to be mean.. Whatever.. or they might make you resign instead by using threats.. You have to tell the truth on your resume.. and besides you want to show off your experience.. Your integrity will hold up better if your resume is bullet proof with the truth... I don't think being fired is a biggie deal.. How you interview today is the biggest deal.. not why you left your last job, unless you got fired for stealing. Edited October 14, 2009 by Art_Critic
sb129 Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 LB I think Allinas last post was excellent and she gave you some very good advice.
Chocolat Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 Well, I was fired but not for a bad or problematic reason. It's confusing, I don't even understand it myself. I was good at my job. My bosses just hated me and wanted to get rid of me so they found anything they could to get rid of me. I'm actually not even sure of the reason, they were extremely vague. That's why when it comes to the interview I don't even know what to say because I don't know why. LB, this is no good and does not make sense. People are fire for cause That is the difference between being fired and being laid off. If you were indeed fired, then there was a cause and you need to know what it was. It's not clear to me whether you do know the cuase and just don't want to state it publicly, or if you truly do not know why you were fired. If it's the former, that's fine, but just say you don't want to talk about it, rather than create the impression that you don't know why. If you truly don't know why, I suggest you find out. You need this information so you can take steps to correct the bits that are within your control.... which is likely more than you think. Having your BF pose as a potential employer is a good idea if you are willing to do some leg-work to determine what sorts of questions a propsective employer is likely to ask.
JamesM Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 LB, this is no good and does not make sense. People are fire for cause That is the difference between being fired and being laid off. If you were indeed fired, then there was a cause and you need to know what it was. Actually, in PA, someone can be fired with no cause. It is an at-will employment state. "The law simply presumes that both parties to an employment relationship can end it for "any or no reason." http://library.findlaw.com/2000/Apr/1/128461.html This means that LB in some ways is better off as the reason may be no reason, or it may be a reason that many employers would not use for termination.
Chocolat Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 Actually, in PA, someone can be fired with no cause. It is an at-will employment state. "The law simply presumes that both parties to an employment relationship can end it for "any or no reason." http://library.findlaw.com/2000/Apr/1/128461.html This means that LB in some ways is better off as the reason may be no reason, or it may be a reason that many employers would not use for termination. Hi James, My state is an "at-will" state, too, however, this is more for employer convenience legally than a practical matter. In reality, employers do not fire employees they are happy with. An involuntary termination, which appears to be what LB experienced, is something that will need to be addressed. More to the point, LB needs to understand what actions or behaviors on her part caused her to be fired. The purpose is not flaggelation but to gain a better insight into what she needs to change.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted October 14, 2009 Author Posted October 14, 2009 Okay here is the story just to make it clear: I worked at my job for like a year and 4 months or something like that. My 6 month evaluation was awesome, glowing. I accidentally put a computer virus on my computer a short time after my evaluation and my work flipped out. They said I abused my computer priviledges (I didn't though, because they never specified what we could or couldn't look at). Plus, who knows it could have been a work site I went to that did it. Their anti-virus software is crap and they are too cheap to buy good stuff. After that they began picking on me, for like every little thing. I had some papers on my desk, they said my office was "disorganized." They started criticizing what I wore, my clothes weren't ironed, my pants were too long (I had started losing weight) and I needed to get them hemmed, my clothes weren't color coordinated. I told a client where I went to high school and they flipped out and said I tell clients my personal business. I ran down the hall ONCE because I was late for a group due to unforseen circumstances. They started saying I had anxiety disorders. I came in 3 minutes late one day, they said I was coming in late and should be coming in 10 minutes early. I got my year evaluation and they totally bashed me saying extremely rude and completely tore my counseling ability apart. None of it was constructive at all. They put me back on probation for the things they said I was "doing wrong" until September 1st. I asked them if my job was in jeopardy or if I would get fired if I didn't improve. They said my job was safe, that I was light years away from getting fired. So over the next 3 months I worked my butt off. I tried to remain calm, ironed my clothes, got all my pants hemmed, came in 10 minutes early, told clients nothing about myself. I was even getting good feedback from my supervisor. They gave me constructive criticism on treatment plans here and there, but nothing too bad. I asked how I was doing and if I was improving and they said yes. About 3 days before my probation was supposed to end my supervisor came into my office ON MY LUNCH HOUR and gave me a letter stating they were releasing me from my position because I didn't meet their standards and I didn't make enough improvement since being put on probation. He didn't give me an explanation he just asked me to give him my key and told me I had to leave..in the middle of the freaking day as I was eating my lunch. I was in too much shock to say anything so I packed up and got the heck out of there. So when I say I don't no why I got fired, I don't. They were just mad and wanted to get me out I suppose. Sorry I said I got laid off, it sounds prettier then saying you got fired by a bunch of a-holes for an unknown reason...
Rollercoasterr Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 That sounds really nit-picky to me. I think they did want you gone. As bad as it sounds there's a girl that works with me right now that is constantly lying to her customers, making up her sales numbers and her drawer has been short, but because we can't prove it, our manager has been particularly picky with her. We now have a police officer at our store at all times because her crazy boyfriend freaked out, destroyed the back office and threatened to kill us all. Our manager has sent her home for her clothes(she was wearing a rainbow colored shirt under her team colors vest, so it was warranted), pointed her when she's late, and done pretty much everything he can to get her transferred or fired. I guess when you want someone gone you'll do anything and everything. Now in the case of my co-worker, she deserves it. My manager is doing everything he's supposed to do when it comes to the point system and sending her home. It's all for valid reasons. But I just can't see yours as a valid reason to treat you like that. Accidents happen.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted October 14, 2009 Author Posted October 14, 2009 That sounds really nit-picky to me. I think they did want you gone. As bad as it sounds there's a girl that works with me right now that is constantly lying to her customers, making up her sales numbers and her drawer has been short, but because we can't prove it, our manager has been particularly picky with her. We now have a police officer at our store at all times because her crazy boyfriend freaked out, destroyed the back office and threatened to kill us all. Our manager has sent her home for her clothes(she was wearing a rainbow colored shirt under her team colors vest, so it was warranted), pointed her when she's late, and done pretty much everything he can to get her transferred or fired. I guess when you want someone gone you'll do anything and everything. Now in the case of my co-worker, she deserves it. My manager is doing everything he's supposed to do when it comes to the point system and sending her home. It's all for valid reasons. But I just can't see yours as a valid reason to treat you like that. Accidents happen. Thanks. It's frustrating and upsetting still. I'm not the only one they have done it to also, in the year and 4 months that I have been there 5 people have gotten fired and 4 quit. In the 6 weeks since I lost my job, 3 people have quit including the person who replaced me..he quit after 2 weeks because he hated the bosses so much.
Rollercoasterr Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 Guess that turn-over rate says a lot more about them than it does about you. I doubt they'll have an easy time finding someone to replace you and stay for as long as you did if they act like that towards their employees. Don't sweat it. You'll probably end up being their boss one day.
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