So the consensus here about all MM's....

[complicatedlife]

Once again -- since YOU have such an issue with ME, put me on Ignore. I am a little tired of the stalking you seem to do and the fact that you feel the need to comment on MY posts. You have stated your disdain for me many times - so ignore me and my silly little words and thoughts. This little game of yours is tiresome.

<She comes inside the door to be nosy and makes a somewhat instigating comment>"The ignore button works both ways."

<Runs out of the room quickly before she gets beat up on.....but I might not make it out! Lol>

[complicatedlife]

Which apparently he knows little or nothing about.

Definitely on the responsibility - but not so sure about the morality and religion part. Remember, let he who is without sin cast the first stone......

[complicatedlife]

Same difference. You dont get into that position if you have good coping mechanisms. Its the bonking someone other than your spouse that shows a lack of strong coping mechanisms.

 

Thats a bad option if you have healthy coping mechanisms and respect for your marriage. Jenni my comments arent meant to diminish the relatoinship an MM might have with an OW.

 

I just think it says alot about the person who is stepping outside the marriage.

Agree totally with this - but in addition to the bonking, I will add that emotional intimacy with someone other than your spouse is an issue, too. At least to me.

[jennie-jennie]

Jenni I understand what you are saying and its a very compassionate view but I dont buy it.

 

His coping strategy - to cheat on his wife while his world view was changing, was not a mature healthy response to his situation. he was acting out against his old world values. That doesnt mean he isnt in love with you, but the fact that he explored his confusion the way he did (which included by bonking someone other than his wife while he was married even if you are the love of his life) means his coping strategies arent wonderful.

 

But I think we will have to agree to disagree.

 

JJ, I do believe we might actually be agreeing on this one. I don't think having an EMR is a good coping strategy either. It is a coping strategy, but not a good one.

[jennie-jennie]

Which apparently he knows little or nothing about.

 

I understand that it seems contradictory. But it is religion, morality and responsibility that is keeping my MM married. He struggled for a long time to end the EMR, but could not make himself do so. Now he is struggling with whether to end the marriage or the EMR. Both options seem equally hard, which is why he has been stuck in limbo for so long.

[bentnotbroken]

Definitely on the responsibility - but not so sure about the morality and religion part. Remember, let he who is without sin cast the first stone......

 

 

And let those who see wrong, say so. Don't pick and chose the parts that suit. I am wrong on so many levels on so many things. But that will not stop me from saying what I see is wrong. Since I haven't said anything to him about his actions, I haven't cast a stone, a brick or a boulder.

[jj33]

Jen glad we agree. If xMM had better coping strategies and if I had better coping strategies being in contact with him wouldnt be driving me over the edge!

 

So Im not one to talk about coping strategies. I just know if someone cheated on me and I had to sit there and face the fact that someone I had built a home and a family with had betrayed me, it would kill me. I would wish that he had come to me first, let me go, worked on it, whatever before choosing THAT coping strategy.

[NoIDidn't]

This is a common theme of OWs? Interesting. I've never read a post of any OW who said that. How do you measure love, anyway?

 

 

This made me LOL. Really.

 

I guess when one can relate to what another poster is writing, it isn't taken the same way as someone not in the situation sees.

 

I see OWs posting that their MM loves them far more than he loves his W all the time. And they can tell because he spends tons of time texting them from the toilet. Or because he makes plans with them and keeps them, regardless of his W. Or because he tells them so.

 

Basically, it seems the more disrespect deemed to be heaped upon the BW by the MM, the more the OW feels he loves her.

 

Of course, this is just what I have gleaned by reading the posts of some OW. Some OW are rightly appalled by this disrespect and reconsider whatever attraction they had to such a man anyway.

[Devil Inside]

I'm by no means intending to be a "knight in shining armor".

 

But what I've seen on this site more now than EVER before is an intentional and deliberate attempt to segregate or even discredit posters based on their "role" in the triangle. It happens here and on the Infidelity forum both...so I apologize if I was a might "touchy" about the subject, but it's getting to the point where I'm seriously considering no longer posting on LS, and moving on to other forums.

 

Just read this...you are not allowed to leave...you have been among the most helpful people in my quest.

[fooled once]

Lol- I started the thread! And I believe that I can conduct an invitation to discourse as I like as long I am not being offensive or rude and as long as I watch my "online" manners/etiqutte.

 

No, it didn't. That is YOUR PERCEPTION. I think everyone here who has corresponded with me knows I am NEVER being critical unless someone tries to attack me - not saying you tried to do that, however, if you already have a negative attitude about the thread that I started so we could all reflect and maybe even have a friendly debate, WHY BOTHER REPLYING? Oh, right - just to disagree with me. Ok, whatever - no big deal, I'm happy to agree to disagree when it's done politely!

 

I heard you're not a BS.....doesn't matter which acronym you use to define yourself....your attitude and tone doesn't come across as wanting to have an even tempered discourse here on this thread- it comes across as wanting to put people down who don't agree with you. And that's coming from a woman who was a fBS for MANY years, as well as a fOW (those two former acronyms would be ME). I can be nice (although I know this one is not necessary but that's just my personality because I genuinely like people) as well as polite (very necessary as it is a fundamental sign of good manners) to everyone, even when I don't agree with them. Owl is a BS and we always get along - even when we rarely disagree as we did today....Bent is a BS and I both like and admire her....if I am not mistaken, so is NID and we don't always agree, but I like and admire her, too. You, on the other hand, took this to a whole other, unnecessary level. But, hey - I guess it makes you feel good, so, carry on! What's sad about this is that it's right alongside with what Owl is saying about why he wants to leave. "Can't we all just get along?"

 

I totally don't get your attitude. You posted a thread. I responded. You came back and poo poo'd my views. How else was I suppose to take that? My attitude? Go back and read your responses to everyone's views. You tone was "no, that's not right"; "No, that's not how it is". All I wrote was I was entitled to my views; just like you were entitled to yours. How in the world is that instigating or belittling anyone?

 

I get along with a lot of the posters on here - except for the stalker.

 

You write one way; I write another. Doesn't make one right or wrong. But the way you came at me -- not cool. I was responding to a survey which I felt I had experience to reply to. Didn't realize that unless you agree with the poster, it is all out war

 

Sorry for having a differing view. Sorry for voicing my own opinions. You are saying my perception was wrong; quite frankly, so was yours by saying I only posted to disagree or to cause issues.

[MistyK]

I see OWs posting that their MM loves them far more than he loves his W all the time. And they can tell because he spends tons of time texting them from the toilet. Or because he makes plans with them and keeps them, regardless of his W. Or because he tells them so.

 

People believe whatever they need to and that doesn't neccessarily make it so not matter if it's coming from a OW or a BS. By the same token, there are lots of BS's who claim that their WS never "really" loved the OW, it was merely "affair fog"; that the WS is now disgusted by the AP, that the WS never lost any love for BS, that it was just all about sex, or that they really don't believe an obvious PA was physical.

 

RE: the bolded text - By the logic above, does the BS assume that the WH shows that he really loves her by coming home still damp from screwing the OW (because he came home at all)? Or because he tells her so?

 

No one really knows where the heart of a WS is except the WS. And they've already established a willingness to lie about it, so there isn't any reason a BS should buy the line of crap more than the OW. Somehow though, when the OW buys it, they're naive/stupid, but when the BS believes it, well - it must be true.

[complicatedlife]

I totally don't get your attitude. You posted a thread. I responded. You came back and poo poo'd my views. How else was I suppose to take that? My attitude? Go back and read your responses to everyone's views. You tone was "no, that's not right"; "No, that's not how it is". All I wrote was I was entitled to my views; just like you were entitled to yours. How in the world is that instigating or belittling anyone?

 

I get along with a lot of the posters on here - except for the stalker.

 

You write one way; I write another. Doesn't make one right or wrong. But the way you came at me -- not cool. I was responding to a survey which I felt I had experience to reply to. Didn't realize that unless you agree with the poster, it is all out war

 

Sorry for having a differing view. Sorry for voicing my own opinions. You are saying my perception was wrong; quite frankly, so was yours by saying I only posted to disagree or to cause issues.

 

I was actually going to PM you as I think at this point this back and forth takes away from the original intent of the thread, but I decided not to - maybe someone else besides us two will get something out of it.

 

First and foremost, I have yet to use the words or the tone of "right" or "wrong". I also haven't used the term "belittling", but I DID use the word "instigating" about MYSELF in the post in which I was being silly.

 

Secondly, I posted the thread because I wanted all of us here to reflect on the word ALL. I think a few people here understood where I was coming from; you can't use the word ALL to describe people in situations - there is no one size fits all, including for MMs. So if I go back and say, "Well, I think"....I am allowing a polite debate on the differences in views, if there are any, as well as to share like-mindedness. My thoughts and views are right for ME - I have never imposed those two things on anyone...matter of fact, I advocate for people here to not do that to other people in a few posts that I have written.

 

Thirdly, I disagreed with people in post #21 and not one soul has said that they thought I was coming off as "right" and they are "wrong". I actually AGREED with some things you said in post #23 as well as disagreed, and in my perception, not one thing I wrote to you could be interpreted as right or wrong, or no that's not how it is, but rather, well....here's a different way that it could be viewed (which, yes, was my view). It's all about perception.

 

Lastly, you replied to post #23 with a (perceived) attitude when you said, "I didn't ask for anyone to agree with me, these are MY views." To me, that wasn't an appropriate response- I thought it was on the defensive and mean side. However, I will say that perhaps I was wrong in thinking you were here to disagree or cause issues...but what you wrote in your reply (#23) is what gave me that idea.

 

Whew! That was a lot!

[complicatedlife]

No one really knows where the heart of a WS is except the WS. And they've already established a willingness to lie about it, so there isn't any reason a BS should buy the line of crap more than the OW. Somehow though, when the OW buys it, they're naive/stupid, but when the BS believes it, well - it must be true.

Hmm...some food for thought.

[complicatedlife]

Jen glad we agree.

I love it when we can not only get along while disagreeing, but also when we work through things and come out agreeing, too! (We=human beings). Yay!

[complicatedlife]

And let those who see wrong, say so. Don't pick and chose the parts that suit. I am wrong on so many levels on so many things. But that will not stop me from saying what I see is wrong. Since I haven't said anything to him about his actions, I haven't cast a stone, a brick or a boulder.

 

Lol on the bolded part!

 

I don't disagree with you - I just think it's your delivery. Sometimes, it even slaps ME in the back of the head, like, "Ouch!" Not a criticism, by the way - I just "deliver" differently, I guess! But on a serious note, perhaps a slap is what you were wishing to do!

[complicatedlife]

This made me LOL. Really.

 

I guess when one can relate to what another poster is writing, it isn't taken the same way as someone not in the situation sees.

 

I see OWs posting that their MM loves them far more than he loves his W all the time. And they can tell because he spends tons of time texting them from the toilet. Or because he makes plans with them and keeps them, regardless of his W. Or because he tells them so.

 

Basically, it seems the more disrespect deemed to be heaped upon the BW by the MM, the more the OW feels he loves her.

 

Of course, this is just what I have gleaned by reading the posts of some OW. Some OW are rightly appalled by this disrespect and reconsider whatever attraction they had to such a man anyway.

 

Well, thankfully, those are the posts that I don't read. I can't stand denial - I'm not perfect and certainly no angel, but at least we should try to be realistic about our situations! And that includes all the posters' titles. Just keep it real. I personally would find it unattractive for a man to talk in a demeaning way about his wife, regardless of whether it's a bad relationship or not.

[ednadean]

1. Are all liars

 

Yes. They're having an affair. Affairs are based on lying and secrecy.

 

2. They really don't love the OW

 

I think some of them do, but what the MM really loves is the attention, the affection, the adoration that the OW showers on him. He loves being loved and he loves how the OW makes him feel.

 

3. Are usually happy in their marriage and lying about the home situation

 

I'm sure many MM's are in bad marriages, but I think most of them are just bored -- bored of the daily routine, bored of their life. They want variety, perhaps the wife has been neglectful both physically and emotionally, etc. So yes, I don't believe many MM have "bad marriages," per se.

 

4. Are having sex with their wives even though some claim that their marriages are sexless

 

Again, I'm sure there are some sexless marriages, but I think most of them sleep with their wives.

 

5. Go on vacation with the family not for the sake of "family", but to spend quality time with the wife

 

I don't know about this one.

 

What CarbonCopy said

 

Only things I would add are

 

1: I think if you're in an EA you can still be relatively honest. Just because you like about some things doesn't mean you are a liar per se -- IMO anyway.

 

2: This might be a controversial point, but I really don't think men are wired the same as women. I think men can love OW, love the way she makes him feel, that she's attracted to him, that she listens, that she's amazing etc etc....but that doesn't mean that he feels he has to do the "crazy" stuff breakup his homelife, his family life etc etc. Whereas I think for a lot of women -- when they fall in love with someone -- they're much more able to think, be strong about it and leave their current situation for their AP [anecdotal evidence anyway]. I DO think it's possible for the MM to love the OW and never have ANY intention of leaving his W.

 

3. hmmmm. Depends on the man. I think most men that have affairs are generally unhappy in some sense. IT doesn't mean that their W is a monster -- but it means that something's not right. They're either bored, don't get any sex, feel like noone listens to them, or feel they give everything and get nothing in return from their home life.

Men who are REALLY happy in the Married Lives though -- IMO rarely have affairs.

 

4. I think there's a lot less sex happening within Marriages than we think. Especially in the post-children, post 40s age bracket.

 

5. I don't think so. What I've said is that vacations with the family mean that the MM isn't going to leave anytime soon. BUt I don't necessarily think it's time to spend with his W ncessarily. WHo knows?

 

I think essentially, there are a few different types of men who enter into As. There's the players, the ones that are complete liars bordering on sociopaths -- but there are also men who are genuinely miserable in their situation, are a bit passive and fall in love with an OW, but never really have the guts to do anything about except crawl behind his W's back.

 

I'm sure there are others, just can't think of them atm.

[jj33]

Exactly what CC said! Especially number 3. That is why my xMM is still bothering me all these years later. Hes looking for that emotional fix that he got from the A. .

[OWoman]

...is that they:

 

1. Are all liars

 

2. They really don't love the OW

 

3. Are usually happy in their marriage and lying about the home situation

 

4. Are having sex with their wives even though some claim that their marriages are sexless

 

5. Go on vacation with the family not for the sake of "family", but to spend quality time with the wife

 

Is this all correct? This is the common theme I have heard/read as I perused the site today.

 

1. Most lie "by omission", on the subject of the A. But beyond that, all of the MM I've been involved with are honest to a fault - they'd never cheat on their tax returns, they pay their speeding fines without balking and they 'fess up if they ate the last brownie.

 

2. That would depend on the nature of the A, and what both / either party wanted or needed from it. Certainly, in some cases they don't - it's a bit of light relief for both, destined to end if the "L word" ever crosses either's mind; in others, it's true love, fated by the heartless hand of destiny to be thwarted by cruel circumstance. I used to go for the former kind, until I got whacked over the head by the latter.

 

3. I've never encountered an MM lying about his home situation being unhappy. And, the information tallied with that which I gleaned elsewhere. Some were happy, if a trifle bored. Others had nothing at all to grumble about, they were perfectly happy - but still open to being tempted into an adventure on the side. The only case of incongruence I found was my H, who claimed that his former M was "averagely happy" when in fact it was toxic - but then, he was only able to admit that to himself through counselling. I think if he'd not been in such deep denial, he'd have had to do something about it far earlier, and for reasons of his own he probably wasn't ready to do that then.

 

4. Again, I've never had men make claims one way or another, because it mattered not a jot to me. Some have let slip down the line that they're in the dogbox because they can't / won't service the W any more, while others have joined in laughter and jokes about bad M sex with their own anecdotes that have indicated it was "business as usual" on that front.

 

5. Perhaps I just hang out with the wrong class of people, but aside from my H, none of my MM have ever been the "family holiday" type. They've travelled extensively for work purposes, and have regarded their leave as time to chill out at home, on the beach usually. So no, no family holidays there.

[NoIDidn't]

RE: the bolded text - By the logic above, does the BS assume that the WH shows that he really loves her by coming home still damp from screwing the OW (because he came home at all)? Or because he tells her so?

 

 

Its been a couple of days since I've been here, but I missed this response.

 

It really made me LOL because its so childish. LOL. Sorry, but this line was supposed to cause pain but is just funny. The A is a secret. LOL.

 

But on a serious note.

 

On the point of who knows the WS's heart, I agree. Which was my point to begin with. Another poster said that she never saw OW claim to know how they are loved "more than" by the MM, and I responded that I have seen those posts where just the fact that he calls repeatedly is claimed to be love to distraction.

 

I never said anything about how the MM feels about his BW. That wasn't even in the conversation. This post, though, is just one of the many ways that the OW tries to get in digs about the BS - even though many claim to never see them here.

[complicatedlife]

Its been a couple of days since I've been here, but I missed this response.

 

It really made me LOL because its so childish. LOL. Sorry, but this line was supposed to cause pain but is just funny. The A is a secret. LOL.

 

But on a serious note.

 

On the point of who knows the WS's heart, I agree. Which was my point to begin with. Another poster said that she never saw OW claim to know how they are loved "more than" by the MM, and I responded that I have seen those posts where just the fact that he calls repeatedly is claimed to be love to distraction.

 

I never said anything about how the MM feels about his BW. That wasn't even in the conversation. This post, though, is just one of the many ways that the OW tries to get in digs about the BS - even though many claim to never see them here.

I actually don't take her comment as childish or a jab (there goes that perception thing again)....as a fBS, it does have some legitimacy. What BS here has never felt that feeling of, "Well, did he/she come home because of obligation or love"? And what about those gut wrenching thoughts of wondering if he or she just came in from being with them - whether just to see them or, yes, just having had sex with them? I know I wondered and thought these things.

[complicatedlife]

1. Most lie "by omission", on the subject of the A. But beyond that, all of the MM I've been involved with are honest to a fault - they'd never cheat on their tax returns, they pay their speeding fines without balking and they 'fess up if they ate the last brownie.

 

2. That would depend on the nature of the A, and what both / either party wanted or needed from it. Certainly, in some cases they don't - it's a bit of light relief for both, destined to end if the "L word" ever crosses either's mind; in others, it's true love, fated by the heartless hand of destiny to be thwarted by cruel circumstance. I used to go for the former kind, until I got whacked over the head by the latter.

 

3. I've never encountered an MM lying about his home situation being unhappy. And, the information tallied with that which I gleaned elsewhere. Some were happy, if a trifle bored. Others had nothing at all to grumble about, they were perfectly happy - but still open to being tempted into an adventure on the side. The only case of incongruence I found was my H, who claimed that his former M was "averagely happy" when in fact it was toxic - but then, he was only able to admit that to himself through counselling. I think if he'd not been in such deep denial, he'd have had to do something about it far earlier, and for reasons of his own he probably wasn't ready to do that then.

 

4. Again, I've never had men make claims one way or another, because it mattered not a jot to me. Some have let slip down the line that they're in the dogbox because they can't / won't service the W any more, while others have joined in laughter and jokes about bad M sex with their own anecdotes that have indicated it was "business as usual" on that front.

 

5. Perhaps I just hang out with the wrong class of people, but aside from my H, none of my MM have ever been the "family holiday" type. They've travelled extensively for work purposes, and have regarded their leave as time to chill out at home, on the beach usually. So no, no family holidays there.

You always write such reflective posts...I really appreciate them.

[bentnotbroken]

Lol on the bolded part!

 

I don't disagree with you - I just think it's your delivery. Sometimes, it even slaps ME in the back of the head, like, "Ouch!" Not a criticism, by the way - I just "deliver" differently, I guess! But on a serious note, perhaps a slap is what you were wishing to do!

 

 

My delivery isn't for everyone, I realize that. But when I slap, who ever it is intended for...know it without a doubt.

[brainyblonde]

i would have loved to be a fly on the wall in my MM's house. i think i'd have got a lot more answers earlier on, would have ended it earlier and not be suffering the extreme pain i feel now.

 

i'd still love to know what his life is like now, post me! is he looking for another AP, is he remorseful and working on his M vowing never to be unfaithful again, or will he get in touch with me again?

[bentnotbroken]

i would have loved to be a fly on the wall in my MM's house. i think i'd have got a lot more answers earlier on, would have ended it earlier and not be suffering the extreme pain i feel now.

 

i'd still love to know what his life is like now, post me! is he looking for another AP, is he remorseful and working on his M vowing never to be unfaithful again, or will he get in touch with me again?

 

 

Why do you need to know these things. If it is over, there is no need for you to even wonder...right?