So the consensus here about all MM's....

[jennie-jennie]

CL, I also mistook Fooled once for a BS. She was once, more than a decade ago, an OW. Now she has been married for a long time. She could have fooled me. Well, she did fool me. I can't see the difference between her and the BSs. Tami would categorize her as a reformed OW.

[Owl]

Does that make her opinions and posts less valuable? Does it make her opinions somehow "wrong", and the only opinions that are "right" are those that come from active OW/OM in an affair at this moment?

 

Does it invalidate my opinions/advice/suggestions since I'm a BS...regardless of my five plus years here and on other sites, along with all my 'real life' experience?

 

What does it matter what "role" someone played...it doesn't mean that you can't get good value out of their views and advice.

 

As a BS, I've taken some pretty valuable advice from WS's and OW/OM around here. And I've given advice to OW/OM/WS's as well.

 

I'd suggest people stop worrying about the "source" and instead focus on the nuggets of gold that can be found in nearly anyone's posts if you just look.

[jennie-jennie]

1. Are all liars

My MM makes a point of never lying to me. He says he needs one place where he can be absolutely truthful, since it weighs on him that he is lying to his wife.

 

2. They really don't love the OW

My MM loves me dearly. He also loves his wife. But he is in love with me, not her.

 

3. Are usually happy in their marriage and lying about the home situation

My MM was happily married before he met me. He would not even have said he was missing anything. This is what makes it so hard for him to leave his wife. There is nothing wrong with her, she is a very good woman and wife. The only thing is, according to him, she has a low sex drive and he has a high one. That is the one place something was missing.

 

4. Are having sex with their wives even though some claim that their marriages are sexless

In the beginning of our relationship both our sex lives with our respective partners got hotter because of the hormonal influence from the EMR. Then for a while MM had problems with ED, probably because of the guilt he felt. As our relationship stabilized, he no longer has any problem what so ever having sex with me, on the contrary. He did continue to have sex with his wife for a long time, although it became more and more sparse. It has been once the last half year. Now, just like DI felt, having sex with his wife makes him feel like he is cheating on me.

 

5. Go on vacation with the family not for the sake of "family", but to spend quality time with the wife

Since he loves his wife, he probably enjoys having vacation with both her and the kids. However, his vacation with me topped it all - best week of his life according to him!

 

6. MM does not care or interest himself in your everyday life, such as kids and economy

My MM is very much engaged in every part of my life. Many times he helps me more with my problems with my kids than their own dad does. We talk about every small happening in both our lives, and he helps me out in every way he can.

[Adri Ana]

1. Are all liars

-Yes. The MM that has an A is anyway a liar . And he goes deeper and deeper in lies if he does not stop wither an A or a M .

Supposedly he stops an A,as to stop a M is more complicated .

 

2. They really don't love the OW

-True. Most of times many MMs are simply complicating the OW-s lives as it so often happens ,but hold them anyway as are very selfish ,making both women , W and OW unfulfilled, but as they (MM) are so selfish,they surely see this not .

 

3. Are usually happy in their marriage and lying about the home situation

-Many times they are lying about the home situation telling all possible "awfull" things to hold somehow the OW beside them .

The situations in their families (of MM) are many times very fine ,

and many times (not always) no one , including their Wives, understands anything as MM holds all in secrecy to fulfill his own selfish desires .

4. Are having sex with their wives even though some claim that their marriages are sexless.

-Maybe . Maybe not . This depends on the individual nature of the MM and the W as well .

 

 

5. Go on vacation with the family not for the sake of "family", but to spend quality time with the wife.

-Again maybe . It depends what for he holds the OW , for fun or more fun .

[jennie-jennie]

Does that make her opinions and posts less valuable? Does it make her opinions somehow "wrong", and the only opinions that are "right" are those that come from active OW/OM in an affair at this moment?

 

Does it invalidate my opinions/advice/suggestions since I'm a BS...regardless of my five plus years here and on other sites, along with all my 'real life' experience?

 

What does it matter what "role" someone played...it doesn't mean that you can't get good value out of their views and advice.

 

As a BS, I've taken some pretty valuable advice from WS's and OW/OM around here. And I've given advice to OW/OM/WS's as well.

 

I'd suggest people stop worrying about the "source" and instead focus on the nuggets of gold that can be found in nearly anyone's posts if you just look.

 

Wowa, I must have hit a nerve. I did not insinuate anything of the kind.

 

We do however kind of get a sense of each other's "personalities" here on the forum. Some people, whether OP, BS or MP, we tend to agree with more, some less. To me it has much to do with the tone of the poster, how newcomers are met and so on.

[complicatedlife]

Does that make her opinions and posts less valuable? Does it make her opinions somehow "wrong", and the only opinions that are "right" are those that come from active OW/OM in an affair at this moment?

Nowhere in my post will you find the words less "valuable", "wrong", or "right".

Does it invalidate my opinions/advice/suggestions since I'm a BS...regardless of my five plus years here and on other sites, along with all my 'real life' experience?

Nowhere have I ever stated or suggested to YOU that your posts are invalid, so I fail to see why you'd write that.

What does it matter what "role" someone played...it doesn't mean that you can't get good value out of their views and advice.

It may not matter to YOU and to a few others here, but it matters to ME what role you have played. We can all speculate about something, the speculating is not always correct in every situation. Does the view of someone DIRECTLY INVOLVED in a particular situation hold more weight to ME? Yes, it does. But it doesn't necessarily mean the other view has ZERO weight, either.

As a BS, I've taken some pretty valuable advice from WS's and OW/OM around here. And I've given advice to OW/OM/WS's as well.

Ditto

I'd suggest people stop worrying about the "source" and instead focus on the nuggets of gold that can be found in nearly anyone's posts if you just look.

I doubt I will find any nuggets of gold in ANY post that is generalized - especially when it's given with an attitude and given to make people (in this case ALL MM's) look less than, other than for that person's/posters own gratification. And I will always consider the source - would I take into consideration the advice/suggestion of a SERIAL cheater? Heck no. But I applaud your knight in shining armor attempt - and I'm not being sarcastic.

[complicatedlife]

2. They really don't love the OW

-True. Most of times many MMs are simply complicating the OW-s lives as it so often happens ,but hold them anyway as are very selfish ,making both women , W and OW unfulfilled, but as they (MM) are so selfish,they surely see this not .

How does any one of us know who an MM really loves? I posted that statement so people can reflect on it....well, I posted all of them so we could all reflect.

[complicatedlife]

Wowa, I must have hit a nerve. I did not insinuate anything of the kind.

 

We do however kind of get a sense of each other's "personalities" here on the forum. Some people, whether OP, BS or MP, we tend to agree with more, some less. To me it has much to do with the tone of the poster, how newcomers are met and so on.

I don't know who he was referring to - me or you - but I answered anyway. But it definitely seems like it hit something for some reason!

[jj33]

I hate to be negative but many of them love themselves most. Otherwise they would do the right thing and settle their relationship with their spouse and then find a new partner.

 

On the other hand if a woman says ok knowing someone is married, there is no ground to complain that you dont get "more". Being lied to is of course another thing.

 

There are exceptions (like Devil) and I think some are confused but the vast majority are narcissists only concerned with ensuring that their own needs are met.

[complicatedlife]

CL, I also mistook Fooled once for a BS. She was once, more than a decade ago, an OW. Now she has been married for a long time. She could have fooled me. Well, she did fool me. I can't see the difference between her and the BSs. Tami would categorize her as a reformed OW.

She's what I call the WFKS......watching for karma spouse! Lol. I mean this is a goodhearted way. I have no problem with BS's - I was one once, too. I do, however, take issues with generalizations meant as put-downs to MMs and OWs.

[complicatedlife]

I hate to be negative but many of them love themselves most. Otherwise they would do the right thing and settle their relationship with their spouse and then find a new partner.

 

On the other hand if a woman says ok knowing someone is married, there is no ground to complain that you dont get "more". Being lied to is of course another thing.

 

There are exceptions (like Devil) and I think some are confused but the vast majority are narcissists only concerned with ensuring that their own needs are met.

Hmm...some are narcs, yes. I think the rest vary between being confused, scared of change, the totally selfish/cake-eating ones, and serial cheaters.

[Owl]

I'm by no means intending to be a "knight in shining armor".

 

But what I've seen on this site more now than EVER before is an intentional and deliberate attempt to segregate or even discredit posters based on their "role" in the triangle. It happens here and on the Infidelity forum both...so I apologize if I was a might "touchy" about the subject, but it's getting to the point where I'm seriously considering no longer posting on LS, and moving on to other forums.

[complicatedlife]

I'm by no means intending to be a "knight in shining armor".

 

But what I've seen on this site more now than EVER before is an intentional and deliberate attempt to segregate or even discredit posters based on their "role" in the triangle. It happens here and on the Infidelity forum both...so I apologize if I was a might "touchy" about the subject, but it's getting to the point where I'm seriously considering no longer posting on LS, and moving on to other forums.

That's character, right there, Owl - a man who can admit to things like that. That's why I like you. But don't let those kinds of things take you away from here.....I'm sure you know there are many people here that could use your opinion - and we'd miss you!

[jj33]

Complicated I agree with you but what does one do when one is confused? Go bonk someone other than their spouse? Its not a great coping mechanism...

[ladydesigner]

Owl you have given me some of the best advice... hard advice to swallow and truthful... but really good advice. You have given me the kind of advice that I need to take a step back and really look at who I am. It would be a great loss not to have you on LS.

[jennie-jennie]

She's what I call the WFKS......watching for karma spouse! Lol. I mean this is a goodhearted way. I have no problem with BS's - I was one once, too. I do, however, take issues with generalizations meant as put-downs to MMs and OWs.

 

Totally agree with you about "generalizations meant as put-downs". This is a very good topic that needed to be brought to people's attention.

 

Please explain "watching for karma spouse". I must be a bit dense today.

 

Jennie-jennie, OW, former BS and WS

[jennie-jennie]

Hmm...some are narcs, yes. I think the rest vary between being confused, scared of change, the totally selfish/cake-eating ones, and serial cheaters.

 

I think it is very important that we realize that we are dealing with a wide range of men, just like you describe above.

[jennie-jennie]

Complicated I agree with you but what does one do when one is confused? Go bonk someone other than their spouse? Its not a great coping mechanism...

 

They might be confused because they found themselves caught up in an EMR where they are bonking someone other than their spouse.

[jj33]

Same difference. You dont get into that position if you have good coping mechanisms. Its the bonking someone other than your spouse that shows a lack of strong coping mechanisms.

 

Thats a bad option if you have healthy coping mechanisms and respect for your marriage. Jenni my comments arent meant to diminish the relatoinship an MM might have with an OW.

 

I just think it says alot about the person who is stepping outside the marriage.

[jennie-jennie]

Same difference. You dont get into that position if you have good coping mechanisms. Its the bonking someone other than your spouse that shows a lack of strong coping mechanisms.

 

Thats a bad option if you have healthy coping mechanisms and respect for your marriage. Jenni my comments arent meant to diminish the relatoinship an MM might have with an OW.

 

I just think it says alot about the person who is stepping outside the marriage.

 

I believe that the MM are trying the best they can to cope, just like we all do. Apparently an EMR/affair was the best they could do.

 

I know for my MM our relationship began at a point in his life where he stood at a breakingpoint in how he views the world. Had he remained the person he used to be, he had never contacted me. But as his perspective of the world changed, so did his actions. Still, so much of his old world view persists, that he is torn between the new and the old. And this is not about love, it is about religion, morality, responsibility.

[bentnotbroken]

Which apparently he knows little or nothing about.

[jj33]

Jenni I understand what you are saying and its a very compassionate view but I dont buy it.

 

His coping strategy - to cheat on his wife while his world view was changing, was not a mature healthy response to his situation. he was acting out against his old world values. That doesnt mean he isnt in love with you, but the fact that he explored his confusion the way he did (which included by bonking someone other than his wife while he was married even if you are the love of his life) means his coping strategies arent wonderful.

 

But I think we will have to agree to disagree.

[fooled once]

???? What the? Good Lord. Was that comment necessary? I mean, REALLY?

Who said you were asking for people to agree with your views? I was actually trying to be polite and answered everyone who took the time to post on this particular thread that I started....not sure what the 'tude is for. So much for trying to be polite. Oh well.

 

I will also add that it's easy for anyone to speculate on something when they haven't had the personal experience and then hindsight into a particular situation. Therefore, I added my own personal experience to what you wrote as a way to have a friendly discourse; my situation was not anything like your non-life-experienced views as I believe you are a BS - but I could be wrong as I haven't followed your posts. But...maybe that's why there's a 'tude...because this (me) FORMER OW wasn't the stereotype and actually had a decent ending.

 

 

I didn't understand your need to add YOUR views to everyone else's views.

 

Your post came off as if you were criticizing what everyone else wrote.

 

And no, I am not a BS. Why does everyone think that those that disagree with a OW MUST be a BS?

[fooled once]

CL, I also mistook Fooled once for a BS. She was once, more than a decade ago, an OW. Now she has been married for a long time. She could have fooled me. Well, she did fool me. I can't see the difference between her and the BSs. Tami would categorize her as a reformed OW.

 

Once again -- since YOU have such an issue with ME, put me on Ignore. I am a little tired of the stalking you seem to do and the fact that you feel the need to comment on MY posts. You have stated your disdain for me many times - so ignore me and my silly little words and thoughts. This little game of yours is tiresome.

[complicatedlife]

 

I didn't understand your need to add YOUR views to everyone else's views.

Lol- I started the thread! And I believe that I can conduct an invitation to discourse as I like as long I am not being offensive or rude and as long as I watch my "online" manners/etiqutte.

Your post came off as if you were criticizing what everyone else wrote.

No, it didn't. That is YOUR PERCEPTION. I think everyone here who has corresponded with me knows I am NEVER being critical unless someone tries to attack me - not saying you tried to do that, however, if you already have a negative attitude about the thread that I started so we could all reflect and maybe even have a friendly debate, WHY BOTHER REPLYING? Oh, right - just to disagree with me. Ok, whatever - no big deal, I'm happy to agree to disagree when it's done politely!

And no, I am not a BS. Why does everyone think that those that disagree with a OW MUST be a BS?

I heard you're not a BS.....doesn't matter which acronym you use to define yourself....your attitude and tone doesn't come across as wanting to have an even tempered discourse here on this thread- it comes across as wanting to put people down who don't agree with you. And that's coming from a woman who was a fBS for MANY years, as well as a fOW (those two former acronyms would be ME). I can be nice (although I know this one is not necessary but that's just my personality because I genuinely like people) as well as polite (very necessary as it is a fundamental sign of good manners) to everyone, even when I don't agree with them. Owl is a BS and we always get along - even when we rarely disagree as we did today....Bent is a BS and I both like and admire her....if I am not mistaken, so is NID and we don't always agree, but I like and admire her, too. You, on the other hand, took this to a whole other, unnecessary level. But, hey - I guess it makes you feel good, so, carry on! What's sad about this is that it's right alongside with what Owl is saying about why he wants to leave. "Can't we all just get along?"