"If you want sex, then you will have to get it somewhere else."

[Phateless]

James - if you've left the ball completely in her court, you need to set an expiration date.

 

"I will leave this alone, 100%. It is up to you to figure out what's wrong. I love you with all of my heart and if you ask for my help I will do everything in my power to help you. If in 3 months' time we are no closer to a resolution, I will leave you."

 

I think that would be more than fair.

[Mr. Lucky]

Thanks, Mr Lucky...once again for the laugh. Actually, there are safer places.

As cheap as airfare is these days, it might cost effective (and discreet) to just visit Lizzie in Canada a couple of times a month. Is your passport current ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[KikiW]

And the answer is "I don't know." Or "I think it is because of (usually a physical reason)."

 

As you or someone said, she needs to address the issue head on and solve the problem. As noted on here many times over through my posts, I have tried and found no answers that worked successfully.

 

Hence, I give her the ball. If she deems her marriage and husband worthy of it, then the problem will be solved. Asking her and prodding her will do nothing, and in fact will be counterproductive. I wait and them decide what to do.

 

I am glad you are giving her the responsibility of working on this herself. You have truly done all you can, but it IS up to her. As others are saying, don't let it drag on for years, though. She needs to recognize how detrimental this is to her and to you to continue sweeping it all under the rug. Contrary to what others have said in previous posts, I believe she DOES have responsibility and control of her libido - insomuch as SHE is the one that has the responsibility and control over taking action and seeing psychologists, OB/GYNs, psychotherapists, psychiatrists, WHOEVER, in order to get to the bottom of all this. "I don't know" or blaming some vague hormonal thing is a cop out. Time for her to saddle up and put some effort into this.

 

I truly hope at the end of it all, you and she both are in a much better place in your lives.

[65tr6]

I would respond to her as such:

 

"Is it that you're not sexually attracted to me or that you're not sexually attracted to anyone, at all?"

 

ok, I cant ignore but make a comment...

 

His wife's comment...

 

"I am not sexually attracted to anyone. I don't need sex but I understand your need, I am ok with you getting it elsewhere"

 

OR

 

"I am not sexually attracted to you anymore. It is not you but me. I have changed"

 

Be very careful here in how you interpret her response. Not because she is not being honest but she may not know what she wants. My money is the second response but there is lot of speculation on my part.

[PandorasBox]

If she isn't interested in sex with anyone period, maybe she is Asexual? I don't know much about that, other than the fact, in humans they have no desire for sex with anyone. I don't know if a person can at some point change and become Asexual, after being sexual, I guess anything is possible. I did read somewhere along time ago something about SOMETIMES a person who has suffered some kind of sexual assault/abuse can shut down and not want sex from anyone. However, I would think that wold be more in the beginning of sex with someone but not sure. I also know there are SOME people who have been sexually abused, and it does the opposite, they are very sexual and promiscuious, using their sexuality as a way to try to receive "love" and acceptance from another person.

[tnhusband]

James - all I can leave you with is to reiterate that she is not going to change, she is not going to try, she does not know what is wrong or how to fix things.

 

Putting all the responsibility on her to change is like asking a baby to balance the checkbook - she does not have the ability, the knowledge or the need to do anything. This is your problem not hers. People argue that as your wife she SHOULD do something. Of course she SHOULD. But has she - not so much. Will she - of course not - if she hasn't by now do you really think another talk is going to flip her switch?

 

You mentioned you read the Sex Starved Marriage - I tried that one too - not a great book unless the other partner is willing to read it - and most of the time - getting the low libido partner to be involved is impossible - as you know.

 

Read The Passionate Marriage - maybe it will better convey the concept than I could. Again what have you got to lose.

 

I'm out.

[Thaddeus]

James, you've got 27 screens here of concern, advice and back-and-forth.

 

There really isn't much more than can be added, I'm afraid.

 

Time for action, my friend. Whatcha gonna do?

[2sure]

To me , her saying that she just doesnt like or want sex ...its nothing personal, her problem, nothing she can do about it....

 

Has some things in common with my serial cheating H and his therapist. Its His problem, nothing to do with me really, almost an illness or addiction....

 

But the end result is they are both serious betrayals. They just dont want to deal with the blame, so in a sense it becomes YOUR problem anyway.

[giotto]

James, I would accept it, at this point. You are not going to divorce her or do anything drastic, so follow the medical route and take it from there. People say she has a duty towards you. No, she has no duty, she is not your sex slave, and that part of her has gone. It's not her fault. It's an unfortunate situation, but to me she'll never change because she is continously under pressure or she can't find it in herself, it's a void she unable to fill.

 

I wish you all the best and I admire you for your perseverance...

[JamesM]

Most definitely, she's pulling the passive-aggressive act. Impossible to combat.

 

The ball's in her court now. Love or match.

 

And I told her that. This gives her the control...or more of the control than before. And honestly, I don't care as much which way it goes. I have tried, and I am comfortable with that.

 

I know I conveyed that to her. Ironically she made the same comment that you did, "So the ball is in my court? I have control....mmm." I said, "Yes, and you always have had the control."

 

At the end, I give a summary of a talk SHE initiated last night.

 

James - if you've left the ball completely in her court, you need to set an expiration date.

 

I think that would be more than fair.

 

I don't disagree, but I knew that if it didn't change within a week, then I failed. An actual date is not needed. I know her and how she responds to challenges/crises.

 

As cheap as airfare is these days, it might cost effective (and discreet) to just visit Lizzie in Canada a couple of times a month. Is your passport current ???

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Witty feller.

 

No, the passport is not current, and the tickets cost too much. If she was closer.... Perhaps Lizzie has a sister here in town.

 

I am glad you are giving her the responsibility of working on this herself. You have truly done all you can, but it IS up to her. As others are saying, don't let it drag on for years, though.

 

I truly hope at the end of it all, you and she both are in a much better place in your lives.

 

I don't plan on it. Even though she plans on making a new beginning (see below), I cannot keep this kind of talk up. She needs to decide...or rather show... if this is permanent or temporary.

 

Thank you for the kind words. Sadly, while I hope so, I am still skeptical. A few months of good sex...yes. More...we will see.

 

James - all I can leave you with is to reiterate that she is not going to change, she is not going to try, she does not know what is wrong or how to fix things.

 

Will she - of course not - if she hasn't by now do you really think another talk is going to flip her switch?

 

You mentioned you read the Sex Starved Marriage - I tried that one too - not a great book unless the other partner is willing to read it - and most of the time - getting the low libido partner to be involved is impossible - as you know.

 

Read The Passionate Marriage - maybe it will better convey the concept than I could. Again what have you got to lose.

 

I'm out.

 

Actually, I knew that if the talk was as I thought I conveyed it, then she WOULD change...but will it last? I know that inside right now, she has great plans and will please me sexually and give more hugs and kisses. But will it last?

 

I agree about Sex Starved Marriage. She actually read bits of it three years ago, and this helped convince her of my "needs." Thank you for the other book. I will look it up and get it.

 

And don't be out. You have contributed alot of insights that, while I may not agree with your conclusions, I do know that you experienced exactly (or close to) what I have experienced. The difference is that you have solved the problem....whatever the solution was. I have not. And if this does not work, then I will be relooking at all advice...or simply moving on.

 

James, you've got 27 screens here of concern, advice and back-and-forth.

 

There really isn't much more than can be added, I'm afraid.

 

Time for action, my friend. Whatcha gonna do?

 

See below. My action was taken, and as in tennis, she gave a hit. And my hit back to her last night was..."This is still up to you."

 

To me , her saying that she just doesnt like or want sex ...its nothing personal, her problem, nothing she can do about it....

 

Has some things in common with my serial cheating H and his therapist. Its His problem, nothing to do with me really, almost an illness or addiction....

 

But the end result is they are both serious betrayals. They just dont want to deal with the blame, so in a sense it becomes YOUR problem anyway.

 

Yes, I know. I have attempted and have at least temporarily succeeded, to show her how that while it seems to be only my problem, it is not. Just as in your case, his problem ruins your life as much as it does and probably more.

 

Here is the summary of last night's events....

 

My wife talked with me tonight. This was the first time we have talked since the call Sunday night. I wasn't really surprised by the talk or what she said. She said how after I talked with her she thought about how much she loved me and how I was her best friend and how she needed me. She couldn't imagine losing me. She passionately kissed me (couldn't do more than kiss due to kids in the other room, and I did not want more TBH, but she wanted to keep kissing) for quite awhile and said we could get back what we had. She wanted to make me happy. She said she realizes how much this does mean to us and wants to get back what we had.

 

I guess that is the gist of the conversation. Tomorrow we have a date planned alone. This was before the talk. She is really looking forward to it, she said. I think I have become uncaught...if that is a word. Suddenly I am not securely in her grasp. So I am desirable....and even loved.

 

Basically, her motivation IMO was fear. Perhaps her motivation is the challenge of catching me again. Yes, she was motivated by love, but the real question remains...will it lead to a higher libido (ie her looking to discover why it is low) or is it to keep me. If it is just to keep me, then like last time, I am afraid it will last for a few months then go away.

 

I know many will think it won't last, and at this point I am with those who think that way. Is she preventing me from leaving more than anything, or is it a genuine love for me? I know she loves me as her best friend. I know I am her rock and strength emotionally....even though outwardly most would not believe she needs that. I know she needs me for many reasons (and money is not one of them ).

 

What I question is...is this motivated by more than the desire to please me? I am guessing no at this point. And that is okay right now. But will she be motivated enough to find the real problem? I am skeptical. Is this a way to avoid facing the real problem? I hope not. However, I am afraid that this is it. Then in a year, I will be as I am now. This won't happen if her motivation of losing me keeps her motivated to increase her libido. If that is the case, then we will have a much happier marriage. I know she believes right now that she will not stop until she finds the reason, but until she proves this in the long run, I can only take a wait and see attitude.

 

Perhaps she is motivated to love sex again because it is a means to gain her security back. Perhaps it is because she really loves me and realizes I am not bluffing. Perhaps my voice conveyed not so much an anger (which I was not) but a sense of resignation to the situation and the idea that I would be looking elsewhere for answers. Perhaps she realizes that she DOES have the control and yet...she doesn't.

 

So another chapter ends or begins.

[2sure]

So another chapter ends or begins.

[CarrieT]

I haven't posted opinions or thoughts in this thread, but I have been reading it carefully and only wish to continue sending best thoughts and wishes to James for his difficult situation.

[JackJack]

"No, the passport is not current, and the tickets cost too much. If she was closer.... Perhaps Lizzie has a sister here in town. "

 

 

Its good you can joke about this I suppose. I mean, ya gotta have a sense of humor somewhere, might as well be here.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Hope it continues through the "date"..... Don't be surprised if something however derails the post date festivities:o.....

 

Enjoy the ride, don't obsess over it and frankly if it works you keep initiating at your liking (be it once a week or more) and see her response.

 

Try to talk little about your needs and see if she talks about hers and the future.... She if she is earnest or not.

 

Fingers crossed.....

[KikiW]

Putting all the responsibility on her to change is like asking a baby to balance the checkbook - she does not have the ability, the knowledge or the need to do anything. This is your problem not hers. People argue that as your wife she SHOULD do something. Of course she SHOULD. But has she - not so much. Will she - of course not - if she hasn't by now do you really think another talk is going to flip her switch?

 

I absolutely disagree with this. The impression I honestly get is that James' wife is stuck - she has issues that have halted her desire for intimacy, and she has gotten very comfortable in avoiding dealing with them and putting James off as long as she can because of her desire to keep avoiding them.

 

I do not believe she is as a baby balancing a checkbook. I am certain she is an intelligent woman, probably HIGHLY intelligent. She has skillfully bottled up her issues, and has learned to deflect away from them as much as possible.

 

What it will take is James pushing her to deal with the issues, because it hurts them BOTH. He has taken steps to push her, and I don't think in a bad way. He is communicating his sadness, his loneliness, his confusion, and his concern for her to her, and she seems to be letting it sink in. If she truly doesn't know where to start to get the answers, James can help her by suggesting any of the people I mentioned in my earlier post - therapists, OB/GYN and other various specialists. But she will need to be the one to make the calls and go to the appointments. That is the effort she needs to make if she truly wants the marriage to be happier and more fulfilling.

 

Based on James' comments, she is trying SOMETHING. She is trying to connect more. It's a start. She just needs to keep at it, chisel away at what's keeping her from connecting so intimately with her husband, and they have a good shot at working all this out.

[Phateless]

James - that conversation sounds like progress, but I think she is doing nothing more than stringing you along. My honest opinion is that she won't actually DO anything until she sees you close the door behind you.

 

When is she going to therapy? When will she read a book? When will she join a support group?

 

When is she going to DO something tangible to work on her issues and save your marriage?

 

Talk is cheap. Show me the money.

[Trialbyfire]

James - that conversation sounds like progress, but I think she is doing nothing more than stringing you along. My honest opinion is that she won't actually DO anything until she sees you close the door behind you.

 

When is she going to therapy? When will she read a book? When will she join a support group?

 

When is she going to DO something tangible to work on her issues and save your marriage?

 

Talk is cheap. Show me the money.

James has fully put the ball in her court. Before we negate that she will show him the money, let her show him the money or not. She's in the driver's seat. If he makes the least move to take over the driver's seat right now, everything that's transpired in the last couple of weeks of the least bit of progress, will be negated.

 

It's time to be patient, for a short while.

[tnhusband]

I absolutely disagree with this. The impression I honestly get is that James' wife is stuck - she has issues that have halted her desire for intimacy, and she has gotten very comfortable in avoiding dealing with them and putting James off as long as she can because of her desire to keep avoiding them.

 

I do not believe she is as a baby balancing a checkbook. I am certain she is an intelligent woman, probably HIGHLY intelligent. She has skillfully bottled up her issues, and has learned to deflect away from them as much as possible.

 

Kiki - it was just an analogy - I'm not saying she is a baby or unintelligent - yes she's stuck but she has no way to get out of the mud. IMHO she knows something is wrong but can't quite put her finger on the cause. How can she fix something when she does not know what to fix?

 

James - I appreciate your comments and wish you the best. One thing you may have read is the more sex you have the more sex she may need. So maybe her efforts to have more sex - no matter her motivation - could lead to an awakening.

[Phateless]

James has fully put the ball in her court. Before we negate that she will show him the money, let her show him the money or not. She's in the driver's seat. If he makes the least move to take over the driver's seat right now, everything that's transpired in the last couple of weeks of the least bit of progress, will be negated.

 

It's time to be patient, for a short while.

 

I agree with you there.

[Trialbyfire]

I should expand on why I feel that James has to be patient, at least for the interim.

 

IF this is a dominance issue and has anything to do with her past abuse, he's given her full freedom to act on her own cognizance. To push her or second guess her, in contrary to what he's already done by putting the ball in her court. It's like telling someone to drive, then freaking out and taking back the steering wheel, when you exit the driveway.

[mem11363]

James,

I think you have handled this brilliantly. And I agree that you are right to feel that true progress is happening.

 

good luck

 

James has fully put the ball in her court. Before we negate that she will show him the money, let her show him the money or not. She's in the driver's seat. If he makes the least move to take over the driver's seat right now, everything that's transpired in the last couple of weeks of the least bit of progress, will be negated.

 

It's time to be patient, for a short while.

[tnhusband]

In reading through all the recent posts I just have to say a few more things - IMHO....

 

First of all it's key that James (and maybe even his wife) need to get a firm understanding that there is huge difference beween sex and libido. She may have more sex with him which is great but unless the sex itself triggers her libido issues - her libido is going to stay the same.

 

Patience - patience for what? Something has to change her libido and barring medical issues - I believe she is incabable/unable to change her own libido. It's going to take something other than her to change it.

 

Ball is in her court - again to do what? Other than go to the Doctor I just don't think she can change it.

 

There are apparantly millions of spouses (mainly women) that have issues with a reduction in their libido - I personally don't believe all these millions of spouses are uncaring enough to not want to make their mate happy sexually. They just can't.

 

I do have a question for everyone - every now and again I will lose my mojo. Usually stress related. Sometimes I have no idea why. But I will have a few days even sometimes a week when I just don't feel in the mood for sex. And I'm a think about sex all the time kind of guy.

 

During these periods there is nothing I can seem to do to increase my libido. Not in mood if my wife initiates, not really in the mood to watch porn, or even fantasize in my head, nothing. I can and do still have sex but just not really in the mood. My wife notices. I know I do.

 

Now eventually my mojo/libido always returns - but I guess based on this I can relate to those that have a reduced libido and don't know how to increase it.

 

So my question is - does everyone go through this temporary libido reduction? And if you do - can you do anything about it?

[carhill]

does everyone go through this temporary libido reduction?

 

Here's some perspective on 'temporary':

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t77030/

 

Note the date of the post.....

 

For me, yes, I went through a temporary reduction in libido while caring for my mother as her psychosis made me temporarily insane. Once I placed her, my libido (and sanity) returned. Wanting intimacy was pervasive. If the OP's W is in a permanent state of trauma (from past abuse), IMO, only psychological and/or medical help will be effective. I noticed, when attending MC with my wife, that my libido always seemed to be more pronounced after sessions. In retrospect, it was because we were connecting honestly within that space. Intimacy bred desire, even if the dynamic within was contentious.

 

OK, back to lurking...

[Mr. Lucky]

So my question is - does everyone go through this temporary libido reduction? And if you do - can you do anything about it?

Not sure of your age but those lulls can get more frequent as you get older. As you accurately pointed out, sex and libido aren't the same thing. To me, those reductions become opportunities to make it all about my wife, focusing on and pleasing her. Time to break out the toys and accessories. And I also know that, when she feels the same way, she does the same for me. Quid pro quo ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Trialbyfire]

I'd like to highlight the low testosterone scenario. Generally speaking, women lose half their testosterone level by the time they hit their forties. Since testosterone equates to libido, this might have something to do with women losing interest in sex. Combine this with long-term relationships and also, the stress of job and kids, and it becomes something, from the sounds of it, not unusual.

 

Keep in mind that you can have low testosterone levels and still be within medically "normal and healthy" limits, so regular hormonal testing won't necessarily be enough to maximize your quality of life.

 

As this is a generalization, you'll also find women who naturally have a higher level of testosterone, whereby they don't lose their sex drive in their forties or later.

 

http://www.managingmenopause.org.au/content/view/69/111/