"If you want sex, then you will have to get it somewhere else."

[silktricks]

James, I think (I'm not sure obviously - but I think) that you are not understanding tnhusband....

 

Tnhusband, thank you for responding.

 

 

 

Let me rephrase. I am still concerned, but I no longer am ambitiously looking for a solution. I guess I should have said that I don't care enough anymore to do anything about her. If change is to occur, then she needs to discover a solution and i mplement it.

 

If a change to her is to happen, it must originate from her. I absolutely agree with this 100%, but that's not what tnhusband is talking about, I don't think. I think he's talking about you thinking outside of the box FOR YOURSELF. Because you would make a somewhat radical and unexpected change, this could excite interest in your wife, even if she cannot find the "root cause" of her low libido.

 

But the only problem with this is...either I change it for me or I change it expecting more sex. And as I said yesterday, if I change things about me for me, then my goal will not be for the betterment of my marriage.

 

If I change it for her and get no "reward" of sex, then I am afraid this would only increase my frustration.

Truly, I don't think it MUST be for the "betterment of your marriage", it just needs to be a change that is not planned out and discussed and labored over with your wife so that she knows or assumes that it's intended consequence is getting her into bed....

 

Surely you are not so completely self-satisfied that there isn't ANYTHING about yourself that you wouldn't like to change.... .... even radically.

 

This isn't about taking the choice to work on resolving the problem out of your lady's hands, this is about doing something else at the same time. Don't just go through everything and say either BTDT or it won't work... try something new, something adventurous not with the end result of sex in mind, but the end result of making over some part of yourself that you would like to change. If it has an added benefit of your wife falling in love with you again, I'm sure you wouldn't mind.... maybe she's just not into being dirty with her best friend .

[JamesM]

Don't children learn what a relationship is from watching their parents? I just think the kids will be able to tell that you're not happy.

 

I agree with this. I have seen people say, the kids wont know. As long as you put on a happy face and don't fight or argue in front of them its going to be ok.

 

Question for you James. Just hypothetical of course.

 

What would you do if one day, after your kid(s) were grown and out of the house, etc, came to you and/or wife and said they knew how unhappy you were. They knew you stayed pretty much for them, and that now they weren't sure how a healthy relationship was supposed to be, and because you stayed they now resented you both? And would have rathered you both divorced and been happy apart than not happy together?

 

 

Vlad says it below, too, but the hypothetical question could be posed as well...what would I do if when grown I find they resented me for being so selfish as to throw out a perfectly good marriage over a lack of sex...especially when everything else was good?

 

The question could be asked....would I be happier divorced from my best friend or happier living with her? And while I cannot answer what my children will say, I can say that both my wife and I would say that being together right now is the happiest for us, and I feel for me...and definitely for the children.

 

They guy just mention over100 times that other than the sex thing he has a perfectly nice relationship with his wife.

 

There are always things to work out in a marriage, he has one and he and even his wife is willing to do something about it, what? you want him to go ahead a get a divorce?

 

His kids will be more than proud of his mom and dad for trying really hard to solve this issue, that is if they ever find out about it cause they might not need to know about it al all.

 

We do have a good relationship. Many have said so. Our kids see us hugging more with feeling than they see us fighting. And yes, we fight in front of them. We have never walked into another room to fight. Yet we also have plenty of discussion outside of their hearing. The point is they see us fight and they see us resolve issues.

 

I want them to see their parents fight because they know when they get older that parents do have differences but also resolve them. If they never see us fight, then they will think that a fight means "the end."

 

There are issues that we do not discuss in front of them such as money, sex, and illnesses. (Not that we pretend they do not exist. It is just that some things are "over their head.")

 

Vlad makes an excellent point. Wouldn't be better if they see their parents resolve issues rather than seek out divorce as the answer? While we are far from perfect parents, I think that staying together is best for all of us.

 

JamesM I have read bits and pieces of this thread because I am so late on reading this, but there was one point that really stuck out for me and that was where you had mentioned her childhood abuse.

 

I hate that my sex drive is like this, especially for myself and I blame a majority on it for having been abused. I feel like a damaged person.

 

Maybe one day we will both find the answer.

 

I am sorry for the pain you endured. Having talked extensively with my wife and having read many books, I have an idea of what impact the abuse had on you. And choosing a husband that reminds you of your abuser cannot make it any better.

 

I can say quite confidentially that my wife does not think I am like her abuser hardly at all. I cannot say that this is not a problem, but there are so many differences that I would be surprised if this is a problem.

 

However, I do think that her past abuse still has an impact on her enjoyment of sex. I don't think it is the reason for the lack of libido at this point. As usual, I could be wrong.

[JamesM]

James, I think (I'm not sure obviously - but I think) that you are not understanding tnhusband....

 

I am not sure I am, either. I do know that I did not list how his ideas DID help me.

 

If a change to her is to happen, it must originate from her. I absolutely agree with this 100%, but that's not what tnhusband is talking about, I don't think. I think he's talking about you thinking outside of the box FOR YOURSELF. Because you would make a somewhat radical and unexpected change, this could excite interest in your wife, even if she cannot find the "root cause" of her low libido.

 

I agree that some changes in me are good, but I don't think I agree with his reasoning. I don't think that changing for me is going to be a change to increase sex. Then my changes would be to impress her. And I don't say that either is wrong. If any radical change in me is done to excite her, then the change is to impress her.

 

What I do think is good is making changes for myself with no expectations for anything from her. This is her "problem" now....no matter the result. If it appears that I am doing anything to get her libido back, then I am afraid she will not face what caused the loss.

 

Having said that, a radical change could actually give me some "excitement" in life. While I don't think many of tnhusband's ideas apply to me, I do think they have given me some things to think about. Since reading the list, I have been thinking of things that would make me have some new zest for life.

 

Truly, I don't think it MUST be for the "betterment of your marriage", it just needs to be a change that is not planned out and discussed and labored over with your wife so that she knows or assumes that it's intended consequence is getting her into bed....

 

I understand what you are saying, but the problem needs to be hers and not a response to me. And on top of that, I think at this point I NEED to feel that SHE made the change on her own out of love for me...not because I made some change that made her like the new me. The result of such a change will be that if I change back, then she will lose the spark, and in time, when the newness wears off, her spark may fade.

 

Surely you are not so completely self-satisfied that there isn't ANYTHING about yourself that you wouldn't like to change.... .... even radically.

 

No, I am not. There are plenty of things I could change, but I know myself. If I change for any reason but for myself...even if subconsciously for her, then it will be as if she needed a new me to get excited for me.

 

This isn't about taking the choice to work on resolving the problem out of your lady's hands, this is about doing something else at the same time. Don't just go through everything and say either BTDT or it won't work... try something new, something adventurous not with the end result of sex in mind, but the end result of making over some part of yourself that you would like to change.

 

I can honestly say that I have made changes over the past few years both for me and to impress her...without telling her. No change has done anything for her.

 

If it has an added benefit of your wife falling in love with you again, I'm sure you wouldn't mind.... maybe she's just not into being dirty with her best friend .

 

I am sure that his statement wasn't meant to hurt, but it did. I am not going to be anything less than her best friend. In the past, she was very much sexually turned on by her best friend. This does not mean that I don't need to take some initiation in changing some things out of an improvement of myself. But to become less of a friend to get more sex would be defeating the purpose of what we both seek in a marriage along with sex.

 

Those who know me will find it odd that I quote an atheist, but this statement says it so well.

 

It is not a lack of love, but a lack of friendship that makes unhappy marriages. Friedrich Nietzsche

 

 

Change for me is not bad and could be very good. But if I do it with any expectation for more than personal satisfaction...even if I pretend I have no further expectations, then it is no longer really for me.

[carhill]

Whilst relaxing in my room in Stamford, CT, I will opine:

 

1. One of my wife's biggest complaints in MC was that I talked things to death.

 

2. I sincerely hope you have a male best friend with whom you can share some of this and receive emotional support and understanding. In my situation, my male best friend has been instrumental in preserving my emotional health. He and his wife have been beyond the pale.

 

Continued best wishes

[mem11363]

In the increasingly rare case where I am in the "right" in a dispute with wife she tells me the same thing.

 

Oddly enough she never seems to feel that way when we are having a microscopically detailed discussion about one of the many, many things I have done wrong.

 

 

 

 

Whilst relaxing in my room in Stamford, CT, I will opine:

 

1. One of my wife's biggest complaints in MC was that I talked things to death.

 

2. I sincerely hope you have a male best friend with whom you can share some of this and receive emotional support and understanding. In my situation, my male best friend has been instrumental in preserving my emotional health. He and his wife have been beyond the pale.

 

Continued best wishes

[EnigmaXOXO]

The question could be asked....would I be happier divorced from my best friend or happier living with her? And while I cannot answer what my children will say, I can say that both my wife and I would say that being together right now is the happiest for us, and I feel for me...and definitely for the children.

 

This is really the crux of it.

 

Coming from a divorcee, ending a marriage, particularly one that involves children and extended families isn’t something one should go about willy-nilly just to salvage one’s own ego in a battle of wills or to prove to your partner just what a push-over you’re not. Good relationships and/or marriages are about compromise and mutual respect... not individual pride.

 

Unless you can honestly say to yourself: “I would rather be alone for the rest of my life than spend one more day in the situation I’m in”... than you’re not truly prepared for changes, challenges and significant loss that’s ahead of you. Especially when such decisions are made in the heat of the moment rather than when you’ve had time to calm down, collect your thoughts and take a serious inventory of your life and relationship. And you’re certainly not ready if the good still outweighs the bad.

 

When it comes to divorce, the only way you can move forward is if you can look behind without any regrets. To know in your heart that you gave it the very best that you had, that you’ve tried everything (including individual and couple’s counseling)... and given each other every opportunity to meet in the middle. So long as BOTH people in that relationship/marriage still want to be together, then it’s still worth trying. However long it takes.

 

I know there has been some eluding to idea that perhaps James’s wife no longer “loves” him because it doesn’t seem she’s trying enough. I may be short-sighted, but I don’t see that way. After all, here’s a woman who’s motivated and financially independent. She doesn’t need a husband for his paycheck. Here’s an intelligent and attractive woman who certainly doesn’t have to worry about ending up alone for the rest of her life if she divorces. She could have another man to rekindle her passion and libido anytime she wanted... but she chooses to stay at her husband’s side. She doesn’t need a buddy or confident... I’m sure she has friends, and she certainly doesn’t need her husband to stay home with the kids while she works. She could afford a babysitter or turn to a relative or friend.

 

I can see no other reason or excuse why she’d choose to stay and work on her marriage anymore than her husband... except that there’s still a lot of love between them. And even in my book (as a HAPPY divorcee )... that’s still plenty enough worth fighting for.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

In the increasingly rare case where I am in the "right" in a dispute with wife she tells me the same thing.

 

Oddly enough she never seems to feel that way when we are having a microscopically detailed discussion about one of the many, many things I have done wrong.

 

 

That's why I love this place...... I find company that confirms my suspicions that I am not alone.....

[OldEurope]

In my ever-so humble opinion, the very best thing you could do in this situation is give the appearance of an affair and possibly follow through on one.

 

No one--I repeat no one--has the right to enslave another person to a life of obligation, duty and unhappiness, if for the sake of that other person's own consuming personal shortcomings, petty benefits , their laziness or lifestyle habits. What she is doing is cruel, unthinking, completely disrespectful to you, and utterly confusing. And here you are writing reams of analysis and introspective posts trying to make sense of what she will not say clearly.

 

Well I will say it: she most likely knows you will not divorce because of your character, the man you are, the children you love; meanwhile, she gets the material benefits of a comfy lifestyle, gets to bail from the physical side of the relationship because she can...and that is that. You will continue to slave away, be unhappy, pining for sexual intimacy; she will feel only obliged to be a decent roomate, companion, pal---and there you go becoming old and slowly lonely within a marriage before you know it. Might as well head out now to feed the pigeons!

 

As for "cheating"---Your wife is in effect already betraying the marriage by refusing the sexual intimacy--and this over the course of some years now, and without any severe problems in the relationship that might "justify" this attitude or stance on her part.

 

And, she is forcing you to sacrifice one of the central elements of marriage if not the most central: your sexual life.

 

You are not just a husband, a father, a bread winner or a friend: you are a man. And years from now if you keep up this cheap self sacrifice demanded of you, you will become very resentful, depressed, angry and possibly impotent from so much repression.

 

She takes you for granted, and if you want to stop that in its tracks you have to make her see you in a new light: and that light is as a sexual, desired man. Believe me, it will grab her attention.

 

Because she does not expect you to "do such a thing", it would behoove you and the marriage to make it seem, at least, that you would. If you suddenly grow more quiet, look even better, become vague about a late night, you will see a response in the right direction.

 

And...if you do find yourself emotionally and physically desiring another woman, well---for years you have tried to appeal to your wife for understanding with no effect. You cannot deny your manhood or humanity. Now, it might be against your moral code to have an affair, and that is to be respected. But if you do, and you do become emotionally involved..Well, I say in this case, so be it.

 

OE

[Trialbyfire]

If she's anything like I am, even giving the appearance of an affair will shatter any hope of reconciliation or a functional marriage. I would stop trusting him and once that most important component is gone, the possibility of a healthy marriage is gone.

 

Don't use deception, James.

[mem11363]

TbF

Clearly you and his wife are totally different. You would never have told your husband to "get it elsewhere" so he would leave you alone. Since you are SO different, you should accept that and not try to speak for her.

 

 

If she's anything like I am, even giving the appearance of an affair will shatter any hope of reconciliation or a functional marriage. I would stop trusting him and once that most important component is gone, the possibility of a healthy marriage is gone.

 

Don't use deception, James.

[Trialbyfire]

mem, that's why I put in the qualifier of "If she's anything like I am". Just stating my opinion about deceptive behaviour, considering that one of the most important foundations of viable relationships, is trust. Rock that foundation and you stand to rock the possibility of a functional future together.

[Mr. Lucky]

No one--I repeat no one--has the right to enslave another person to a life of obligation, duty and unhappiness,

She hasn't enslaved him, James has committed himself to the marriage. And he's done so eyes open, fully aware of what it means. This isn't an evaluation or decision that's made in a vacuum. Obligation and duty are assumed willingly and happiness is based on more than sex...

 

Mr. Lucky

[giotto]

happiness is based on more than sex...

 

Mr. Lucky

yes, for the moment... but how long for? Another 10 years?

[carhill]

Until death do us part

[OldEurope]

She hasn't enslaved him, James has committed himself to the marriage. And he's done so eyes open, fully aware of what it means. This isn't an evaluation or decision that's made in a vacuum. Obligation and duty are assumed willingly and happiness is based on more than sex...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

"If you want sex, then you will have to get it somewhere else"

 

If that is not an aggressive, embittered, threatening, abusive, and inhumane statement from one spouse to another, then I don't know what is. In my book this is "enslavement" because, for the reasons I stated above, she has him in a "weakened" position owing to his good-guy character, and she is exploiting this honest, kind code of his to her rotten, petty ends.

 

And this isn't being deceptive?

 

There is more to happiness than just sex--yes, of course. But sex is central to a healthy married life, period. No sex will mean that he will NOT be happy.

 

Sex is not just a "function" or an itch-that-needs-to-be-scratched, as some might have it. With the person you love, it is the ultimate expression of joy and affection and intimacy. It is more than just some routine indulgence--or, that is, it should be.

 

A loving wife--seeing what torture James M has been in for the past--oh, what has it been--five years (?) would have said words to the effect of:

 

"Darling James, for reasons that I have not yet cleared up in my mind and about which I need to do some careful self-reflection, even counseling, I must tell you that I am at a point in my life--or possibly our marriage--where I am no longer interested in sex. No, there isn't another man and there has not been another man (editor's note: let us assume this is the case). If I may use the cliche, 'it's not you, it's me'. I don't know how long this will last or if it is permanent. I think the fair thing to do is to separate for a while, possibly divorce, because I do not expect for you to live a sexless life, and an "open marriage" is a contradiction in terms for both of us. I love you, and because I love you, I do not want you to live in agony and confusion. I am willing to accept the consequences of my feelings"

 

Something to this effect would be a statement of love, and clarity, which he deserves.

 

OE

[marlena]

There is more to happiness than just sex--yes, of course. But sex is central to a healthy married life, period. No sex will mean that he will NOT be happy.

 

Sex is not just a "function" or an itch-that-needs-to-be-scratched, as some might have it. With the person you love, it is the ultimate expression of joy and affection and intimacy. It is more than just some routine indulgence--or, that is, it should be.

 

 

I couldn't agree more. Sex with someone near and dear to you is an expression of love. James's wife is being passive/aggressive and in self-denial. If I were James, I would take her up on her offer. Or better still, leave. Even patience has its limits. Her indifference to Jame's needs is overwhelming.

 

Oh, did I mention selfish as well?

[Mr. Lucky]

"Darling James, for reasons that I have not yet cleared up in my mind and about which I need to do some careful self-reflection, even counseling, I must tell you that I am at a point in my life--or possibly our marriage--where I am no longer interested in sex. No, there isn't another man and there has not been another man (editor's note: let us assume this is the case). If I may use the cliche, 'it's not you, it's me'. I don't know how long this will last or if it is permanent. I think the fair thing to do is to separate for a while, possibly divorce, because I do not expect for you to live a sexless life, and an "open marriage" is a contradiction in terms for both of us. I love you, and because I love you, I do not want you to live in agony and confusion. I am willing to accept the consequences of my feelings"

 

Something to this effect would be a statement of love, and clarity, which he deserves.

 

OE

Again, James doesn't need his wife's mandate or permission to separate or divorce. If he wanted, he could retain an attorney and file paperwork tomorrow. He stays in the marriage because he feels, sex included, that the positives outweigh the negatives. Given the array of options he has, hard to make a case that he's being exploited...

 

Mr. Lucky

[marlena]

Enigma,

 

I read your interesting post and I agree if two people want to stay in a marriage with no physical contact, who are we to judge, right? As long as they love eachother and are happy.

 

The problem is that James seems miserable because of it. Otherwise why would he continually complain? Obviously, it is causing him a great deal of anguish and if that's not something that worries his wife, then, I would have to question just how much she really loves him.

 

After all, isn't love about caring enough to make the other person happy?

 

If she really dislikes sex with James, then, James can't be expected to forget he is a man and tie it up in knots. She has put James in an awful quandary. She tells him to go elsewhere for his needs when she knows full well that he won't violate his moral code and do what she suggests.

 

Obviously James has two options only since he does not want to have his needs met outside the marriage. Either he accepts his predicament, really accepts without complaining and stressing over it or he leaves. Obviously, he can do neither. So what's left?

[Neutrino]

I have followed this thread for a while now. It is so sad how a decent loving person is mentally abused. The worst thing IMO is not that the partner wants no sex - but the psychological games she's playing, refusing to be honest and fair.

 

Sad it has lasted for several years - James - at least save the life you have left. This marriage is already over - getting a divorce is only an acknowledgement...

[PandorasBox]

I have followed this thread for a while now. It is so sad how a decent loving person is mentally abused. The worst thing IMO is not that the partner wants no sex - but the psychological games she's playing, refusing to be honest and fair.

 

Sad it has lasted for several years - James - at least save the life you have left. This marriage is already over - getting a divorce is only an acknowledgement...

 

 

I agree. However, HE is the one that chooses to keep himself where he is in the relationship. So matter what she may do or not do, its really up to him.

[giotto]

I think it's a bit harsh to blame someone for his/her total lack of sex drive. James's wife is certainly not doing it on purpose and words like "abuse" are far too strong for my liking. I think you really have to be in a sexless marriage with someone you dearly love for a long time to understand all the intricacies and the emotional charge of the situation. It's not black and white, and we all know that.

[Neutrino]

I think it's a bit harsh to blame someone for his/her total lack of sex drive. James's wife is certainly not doing it on purpose and words like "abuse" are far too strong for my liking. I think you really have to be in a sexless marriage with someone you dearly love for a long time to understand all the intricacies and the emotional charge of the situation. It's not black and white, and we all know that.

 

Trust me G - I know (from experience) it's not black-and-white.... I'm not referring to the low sex-drive as abuse, and sorry if I phrased my post in a way that left that impression, by "emotional abuse" I'm referring to her lack of cooperation in any way to solve the problem and all her little tricks to avoid the subject while gaining time (for what ?) and dropping the baggage completely on James.

 

Toying with someone's feelings for years on end, is no less than emotional abuse, as blunt as it may read.

[giotto]

Trust me G - I know (from experience) it's not black-and-white.... I'm not referring to the low sex-drive as abuse, and sorry if I phrased my post in a way that left that impression, by "emotional abuse" I'm referring to her lack of cooperation in any way to solve the problem and all her little tricks to avoid the subject while gaining time (for what ?) and dropping the baggage completely on James.

 

Toying with someone's feelings for years on end, is no less than emotional abuse, as blunt as it may read.

 

I understand what you are saying, but I don't think it's a plan on her behalf. It might be seen as mental abuse, but I get the impression that she genuinly doesn't know how to solve the problem. I don't think she is playing little tricks or buying time. My wife has a fairly low libido and I can see the sadness in her eyes when she can't explain why. There are too many reasons - physycal and mental - and probably, trying to solve them - would require a miracle... same goes for James's wife, I'm sure... well, I'm speculating...

[JamesM]

 

1. One of my wife's biggest complaints in MC was that I talked things to death.

 

 

Mine doesn't say this, but occasionally, she will say "Don't over analyze it." Yet she also knows that my over analyzing has helped her see some answers by asking her question after question.

 

Perhaps I am over analyzing this.

 

Three options:

1. Continue as is

2. Get sex elsewhere as she actually said.

3. Divorce. (Actually for me...again...this is not an option).

 

Oddly enough she never seems to feel that way when we are having a microscopically detailed discussion about one of the many, many things I have done wrong.

 

 

Good relationships and/or marriages are about compromise and mutual respect... not individual pride.

 

Unless you can honestly say to yourself: “I would rather be alone for the rest of my life than spend one more day in the situation I’m in”... than you’re not truly prepared for changes, challenges and significant loss that’s ahead of you.

 

And you’re certainly not ready if the good still outweighs the bad.

 

 

Good posts...this one and the next one. You have said some things that explain why divorce is not even close to being an option. If coming home at night was more stressful than going somewhere else and this feeling lasted for weeks/months, then divorce would look alot better.

 

As of now, going home at night is still relaxing and enjoyable.

 

In my ever-so humble opinion, the very best thing you could do in this situation is give the appearance of an affair and possibly follow through on one.

 

As for "cheating"---Your wife is in effect already betraying the marriage by refusing the sexual intimacy--and this over the course of some years now, and without any severe problems in the relationship that might "justify" this attitude or stance on her part.

 

And, she is forcing you to sacrifice one of the central elements of marriage if not the most central: your sexual life.

 

You are not just a husband, a father, a bread winner or a friend: you are a man. And years from now if you keep up this cheap self sacrifice demanded of you, you will become very resentful, depressed, angry and possibly impotent from so much repression.

 

OE

 

For lack of space, I didn't quote all of your post, but well said.

 

Giving an appearance of an affair would not be a bad idea if I could do it successfully. I am not sure I could. It would not cause a lack of trust as TBF says, because in the end, she would realize that there is no affair. It would take the proof of an affair to cause her to distrust me. And inside, being that I know her, I think she would blame herself for most of it.

 

She hasn't enslaved him, James has committed himself to the marriage. And he's done so eyes open, fully aware of what it means.

 

This is true and not true. While I walked into the marriage knowing her past and her many issues, I also walked in knowing that she had gone through counseling. And when we were first married, she showed a great interest in sex. Yet she probably did not have as much of a passion for SEX as for me all of the time. At least that is me looking back.

 

It is not true, because I never bargained for a nearly sexless marriage based on a refusal of sex. If it was the result of a physical ailment or disability, then I could understand and not feel rejected.

 

I couldn't agree more. Sex with someone near and dear to you is an expression of love.

 

If I were James, I would take her up on her offer. Or better still, leave. Even patience has its limits. Her indifference to Jame's needs is overwhelming.

 

Oh, did I mention selfish as well?

 

Thanks, Marlena. I agree with you and since divorce is not the option, then I guess we will give this just a bit of time...and from there make a decision.

 

It is selfish and disrespectful. It is a deception in its own right. It is a betrayal of the marriage vows. It does not show love.

 

The problem is that James seems miserable because of it. Otherwise why would he continually complain? Obviously, it is causing him a great deal of anguish and if that's not something that worries his wife, then, I would have to question just how much she really loves him.

 

After all, isn't love about caring enough to make the other person happy?

 

That is what I thought. And every time I do something that is done to make her happy, then I wonder...."Why am I doing this? Does he love ME enough to satisfy the needs most important to me? Am I being selfish for even thinking of myself?"

 

This marriage is already over - getting a divorce is only an acknowledgement...

 

No, I do not feel it is over. Being that you are the woman in a sexless relationship, then you probably have many of the same thoughts that I do. However, after this many years (19 compared to your five), divorce means the end of many wonderful times, and I would be remiss if I did not mention that they still happen.

 

As said before, would I be happier with or without her? And the answer is still a resounding yes.

 

However, HE is the one that chooses to keep himself where he is in the relationship. So matter what she may do or not do, its really up to him.

 

Good point.

[JamesM]

I'm referring to her lack of cooperation in any way to solve the problem and all her little tricks to avoid the subject while gaining time (for what ?) and dropping the baggage completely on James.

 

And that is the hardest part of this all....does she not care about me enough to do something? While she is sad and it nags at her (per her), can she not at least love ME enough to try? Am I being selfish?

 

As you said, you are from the opposite gender and have an idea of what I mean. I do not call it emotional abuse per se, but yet it is certainly a disrespect of my feelings.

 

I understand what you are saying, but I don't think it's a plan on her behalf. It might be seen as mental abuse, but I get the impression that she genuinely doesn't know how to solve the problem. I don't think she is playing little tricks or buying time. My wife has a fairly low libido and I can see the sadness in her eyes when she can't explain why. There are too many reasons - physycal and mental - and probably, trying to solve them - would require a miracle... same goes for James's wife, I'm sure... well, I'm speculating...

 

I agree, giotto. It is not a plan. She is not intentionally being selfish. It comes down to her simply not having an interest in sex, so she puts in on the back burner and denies the issue. This is how she survived as a child through denial, and rather than facing the issue, she pretends it is not an issue.

 

Sometimes, I wonder if it comes down to a self-destruction thing. Inside, she knows this will lead to a bad marriage, but she feels that:

 

1. She feels that she doesn't deserve a happy marriage. And she figures this will simply cause a breakup of her marriage. Then she will be telling herself that she deserved it and will blame herself.

 

2. She doesn't intentionally mean to do so, but in a sense she is seeing if I love her for more than "just sex." She sees this as just sex because it was used as just sex when she was a child. It has been tainted as a tool for an expression of love. So, if I want her for just sex and not because I love her, then so be it. I must not love her. My words and not hers. Perhaps if she could finally see it as an expression of love (in her heart not mind), then she would see what she is missing.

 

But giotto is right, at this stage, I think it would take a miracle.

 

 

But perhaps, I am simply over analyzing.