"If you want sex, then you will have to get it somewhere else."

[tinktronik]

James, I know what your solution is. Just the same way I know what my solution is. You see, I have been in a nearly 10 year relationship where sex is next to non-existent. My partner and me took a break for about a year and were drawn back together for many reasons. He has his problems and I'm sure I have mine; but he is my best friend. We are very, very compatible in almost every way but not in this way.

 

He has no desire for sex what-so-ever. He says this is overall, but I have not known the details of any of his past relationships; so I don't really know. I have a normal sex drive and have an "interest peak" for sex probably about 3 times a week. We had a normal sexual relationship for about the first 4 months of our relationship, we had been best friends for a long time before becoming intimate. This I think led me to give him more "wiggle room" time before dealing with issues head-on. From the first 4 months of our relationship on we have had sex on average 2x per year, sometimes just 1x. I feel as if my sexuality has been taken hostage by him.

 

There is no reasoning this out, he would like to be able to garner some interest but not enough to try to solve the problem himself, because when it really comes down to it, the problem is mine, not his. I too have gotten the green light to "get it somewhere else" [not that I think he would actually be okay with that] but in reality the sex itself is not what I am after, it is the closeness and expression of love. So I have no interest in engaging in an affair because I KNOW I would attach emotion to it.

 

The answer: He is not going to fix the problem and I cannot force him to nor fix it for him. He may make half-hearted attempts or temporarily try but this is just something that he does not want to do and/or he is just not a "fixer". As much as I love him, as much as I value the life we have together, as much as we are compatible in almost every other way, in order for me to be truly happy and balanced I will eventually have to leave him. My rational mind insists that I am crazy for staying but in the moment I'm just not ready to leave. So I try to convince myself that the things we do have will outweigh the thing we don't but in reality this thing is such a big thing.

 

The truth is that he is happy, he is satisfied as long as I don't touch on this whole sex thing.

 

In reality, you have already given your wife so much time and brought this to her attention over and over again. She knows what this does to you and has known for a while. Why do you think she would suddenly change?

I'm not pushing you to do anything, just in the same way that I will decide eventually, I'm sure you will too. Good luck James.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

James, I know what your solution is. Just the same way I know what my solution is. You see, I have been in a nearly 10 year relationship where sex is next to non-existent. My partner and me took a break for about a year and were drawn back together for many reasons. He has his problems and I'm sure I have mine; but he is my best friend. We are very, very compatible in almost every way but not in this way.

 

He has no desire for sex what-so-ever. He says this is overall, but I have not known the details of any of his past relationships; so I don't really know. I have a normal sex drive and have an "interest peak" for sex probably about 3 times a week. We had a normal sexual relationship for about the first 4 months of our relationship, we had been best friends for a long time before becoming intimate. This I think led me to give him more "wiggle room" time before dealing with issues head-on. From the first 4 months of our relationship on we have had sex on average 2x per year, sometimes just 1x. I feel as if my sexuality has been taken hostage by him.

 

There is no reasoning this out, he would like to be able to garner some interest but not enough to try to solve the problem himself, because when it really comes down to it, the problem is mine, not his. I too have gotten the green light to "get it somewhere else" [not that I think he would actually be okay with that] but in reality the sex itself is not what I am after, it is the closeness and expression of love. So I have no interest in engaging in an affair because I KNOW I would attach emotion to it.

 

The answer: He is not going to fix the problem and I cannot force him to nor fix it for him. He may make half-hearted attempts or temporarily try but this is just something that he does not want to do and/or he is just not a "fixer". As much as I love him, as much as I value the life we have together, as much as we are compatible in almost every other way, in order for me to be truly happy and balanced I will eventually have to leave him. My rational mind insists that I am crazy for staying but in the moment I'm just not ready to leave. So I try to convince myself that the things we do have will outweigh the thing we don't but in reality this thing is such a big thing.

 

The truth is that he is happy, he is satisfied as long as I don't touch on this whole sex thing.

 

In reality, you have already given your wife so much time and brought this to her attention over and over again. She knows what this does to you and has known for a while. Why do you think she would suddenly change?

I'm not pushing you to do anything, just in the same way that I will decide eventually, I'm sure you will too. Good luck James.

 

and you are okay to just have a friend??? What does he do that is so good and perfect that sex and closeness is not necessary? I just am lost reading these posts over and over.

 

Why not suggest you continue to live together and you will search for a mate..... As a woman, on any website you'll have men falling over you if you meet their shallow criteria.....

 

Do you have so little self esteem that you are happy with this arragement???? Help me as I don't get it.

[tinktronik]

and you are okay to just have a friend??? What does he do that is so good and perfect that sex and closeness is not necessary? I just am lost reading these posts over and over.

 

Why not suggest you continue to live together and you will search for a mate..... As a woman, on any website you'll have men falling over you if you meet their shallow criteria.....

 

Do you have so little self esteem that you are happy with this arragement???? Help me as I don't get it.

 

No, we have no mutual children.

 

Good and perfect? I tend to rationalize it that you are never going to find a partner that you are 100% compatible, you may meet on any levels, financially, emotionally, intellectually, sexually, life views, ect. Life, in general, never gets boring with my SO. We never run out of things to talk about. He knows what I'm thinking before I do. He gets me on almost every level, just not this one. I think the issue is that we do have true caring for each other. We just do not meet in this one arena of a relationship. I think the really BIG issue is that if it were an easy fix he would take it and it's a hard topic to broach as over time so much builds up with it.

 

I have considered living together as best friends but there are 2 things here:

1) I am emotionally attached to him as my SO.

2) How to explain his presence to a potential mate.

 

I get chased around by men. I am a beautiful 29 y/o woman. So I'm sure I would have no problems attracting a new mate.

 

I don't think this has so much to do with self-esteem as it does loyalty and friendship and attachment or familiarity. I feel as if this person is my family. I realize that I have to get my needs met eventually and I suppose when the time to "give it up" comes I will do so. I don't think I can explain it anymore than that.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

talk to on the phone, visit have coffee, text, e-mail..... I often hear this with females and sometime with mothers and daughters......

 

Frankly I'd seek counseling together and apart to answer why you two need each other so badly, that you would forgo the physical part of a grown up relationship.

 

He too needs to know his issues, that have resulted in his immature, oblivious take on relationships.

 

One last note.... Always seems the majority of these sexual issues are often between people who started as friends.....

[mem11363]

I sent you a PM with a link. Good luck.

 

No, we have no mutual children.

 

Good and perfect? I tend to rationalize it that you are never going to find a partner that you are 100% compatible, you may meet on any levels, financially, emotionally, intellectually, sexually, life views, ect. Life, in general, never gets boring with my SO. We never run out of things to talk about. He knows what I'm thinking before I do. He gets me on almost every level, just not this one. I think the issue is that we do have true caring for each other. We just do not meet in this one arena of a relationship. I think the really BIG issue is that if it were an easy fix he would take it and it's a hard topic to broach as over time so much builds up with it.

 

I have considered living together as best friends but there are 2 things here:

1) I am emotionally attached to him as my SO.

2) How to explain his presence to a potential mate.

 

I get chased around by men. I am a beautiful 29 y/o woman. So I'm sure I would have no problems attracting a new mate.

 

I don't think this has so much to do with self-esteem as it does loyalty and friendship and attachment or familiarity. I feel as if this person is my family. I realize that I have to get my needs met eventually and I suppose when the time to "give it up" comes I will do so. I don't think I can explain it anymore than that.

[Scrivdog]

I've been away from these boards for awhile, so forgive me for late bumping this post. But here's my advice:

 

1) You stop right now from analyzing the why and the what ifs of why she doesn't want sex. You'll never get the truth and she evidently doesn't care.

 

2) You go ahead and flirt with other women. Go on the net and meet some single women. When you find one that wants to go on a date with you - tell your wife that you're interested in someone else and you're considering going on a date. There's you're giving her ample time to react and she cannot accuse you of being dishonest.

 

3) If she still hasn't seen the light, go out on a date or two. When you think you guys are ready to have this become a sexual relationship, tell your wife beforehand. Give her a chance to step up and confront the issues.

 

4) If she still feels it's ok for you to go get it somewhere else - then go ahead.

 

Frankly, if it makes it step 4 and she doesn't care, then she really doesn't care about you either. It's then time to cut loose, IMO.

 

If you don't go and do this after what she said to you, then get a psychiatrist for yourself to see what you can do to reverse this Stockholm Syndrome you seem to have. Preferably get one with a thick Austrian accent.

[eeyore1981]

and you are okay to just have a friend??? What does he do that is so good and perfect that sex and closeness is not necessary? I just am lost reading these posts over and over.

 

Why not suggest you continue to live together and you will search for a mate..... As a woman, on any website you'll have men falling over you if you meet their shallow criteria.....

 

Do you have so little self esteem that you are happy with this arragement???? Help me as I don't get it.

 

Dude, you seem to place no value on any part of a relationship other than sex. Why don't you become a prostitute, then you can have way more sex than you want, AND get paid for it.

 

You're married, right? So, if your wife had sex with you twice a night, every night, would you be fine if she also had sex with other people? If she rarely ever talked to you? Rarely ever listened to you? Only bathed every 2 weeks. Didn't contribute financially, or take care of the home, or take care of the children?

 

Basically, serious question here, if your wife had sex with you twice a day every day, would you be ok if she contributed and/or participated in NOTHING else in the relationship?

[Scrivdog]

Exactly! Couldn't possibly agree more

 

Forgive me James if this has been asked already, because I have only been here a few months. So if its already been asked I do apologize.

 

Your join date says in 2005, so is that why you originally came to LS is due to this same problem you are still having? Its going on 2010. I'm not sure how long this has been an issue, but even if it went as far back as way before your join date in 2005, thats a good while to still be struggling with the same issue.

 

I agree, also with the fact that your wife may be acting the way she is, still, because she doesn't think she has anything to lose. So maybe in her mind, she figures, why bother, You're not going anywhere.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Dude, you seem to place no value on any part of a relationship other than sex. Why don't you become a prostitute, then you can have way more sex than you want, AND get paid for it.

 

You're married, right? So, if your wife had sex with you twice a night, every night, would you be fine if she also had sex with other people? If she rarely ever talked to you? Rarely ever listened to you? Only bathed every 2 weeks. Didn't contribute financially, or take care of the home, or take care of the children?

 

Basically, serious question here, if your wife had sex with you twice a day every day, would you be ok if she contributed and/or participated in NOTHING else in the relationship?

 

And a relationship with no sex, which you crave and want is ok????? Read her post again...... Tell me what is so great about having a best friend who would tell you in order to continuing to be her best friend, you can't have sex with me or with anyone????

 

Tell me eeyore1981, do you have a best friend? Would you love to live with them and spend a majority of time together? Now if you told them you were headed out for a "booty call", would she be upset with you or wish you the best and say "see you later".... So there you go, that is how I view two people not even 30, no children and no sex...... I think she has every right to look for sex, since she wants it and maintain her "platonic" relationship with her "boyfriend".....

Edited October 18, 2009 by Toodamnpragmatic

[mem11363]

TDP,

You stated this perfectly I agree with you 100 percent.

 

Eeyore - I don't understand your reasoning at all.

 

I bet that Tinktroniks guy likely knew the trajectory their R would take. And he used the 4 months of high sex to bond her to him. If he had told her on the first date what was likely to happen - well - it wouldn't have. Bait and switch is a naughty game regardless of the gender doing the switching.

 

 

And a relationship with no sex, which you crave and want is ok????? Read her post again...... Tell me what is so great about having a best friend who would tell you in order to continuing to be her best friend, you can't have sex with me or with anyone????

 

Tell me eeyore1981, do you have a best friend? Would you love to live with them and spend a majority of time together? Now if you told them you were headed out for a "booty call", would she be upset with you or wish you the best and say "see you later".... So there you go, that is how I view two people not even 30, no children and no sex...... I think she has every right to look for sex, since she wants it and maintain her "platonic" relationship with her "boyfriend".....

Edited October 18, 2009 by mem11363

[eeyore1981]

And a relationship with no sex, which you crave and want is ok????? Read her post again...... Tell me what is so great about having a best friend who would tell you in order to continuing to be her best friend, you can't have sex with me or with anyone????"

 

I did read the post, and I went ahead and read it again. It seems to me like for now she is at least ok with it, because she values the other things of the relationship. You, in turn, accuse her of having low self-esteem because she isn't at this time willing to give up everything else in return for sex.

 

Tell me eeyore1981, do you have a best friend? Would you love to live with them and spend a majority of time together? Now if you told them you were headed out for a "booty call", would she be upset with you or wish you the best and say "see you later"

 

I'm laughing at this question, not at you. I just lost my best friend because of this, and it was a very painful thing. My other best friend, also a guy, would expect sex if we lived together, because he is a horn dog, lol.

 

But to answer your question, (even though you did not answer mine, which is hardly fair???) pretending my best friend is female, I would think she would wish me the best, as I am not a lesbian and would never enter into a live-in arrangement with a woman pretending I was. To answer what you are really asking, since I have kind of been there/done that, I would try to focus on the good things, I would try and continue to try to address the issue of not having enough sex, and if eventually I reached the point I could not go on without more sex, (didn't get this far) I would explain to my SO my inability to carry on our relationship, and move on.

 

.... So there you go, that is how I view two people not even 30, no children and no sex...... I think she has every right to look for sex, since she wants it and maintain her "platonic" relationship with her "boyfriend".....

 

I disagree. It takes two for a relationship, even a friendship, and if one person in that relationship does not want to have sex, they don't lose their rights to determine whether or not they wish to remain in the relationship. While I agree he can't force her to stay with him and not have sex, it is also true she can't go out having sex with other men and force him to stay with her.

 

Again, right now she is wishing for a sex life, but choosing to value the other aspects of the relationship more. I don't see anything wrong with that. There are a lot of relationships out there where the sex is fine, but other things are screwed up. Sex, while important, is not the only thing that matters.

[eeyore1981]

TDP,

You stated this perfectly I agree with you 100 percent.

 

Eeyore - I don't understand your reasoning at all.

 

I bet that Tinktroniks guy likely knew the trajectory their R would take. And he used the 4 months of high sex to bond her to him. If he had told her on the first date what was likely to happen - well - it wouldn't have. Bait and switch is a naughty game regardless of the gender doing the switching.

 

Mem, you say you don't understand my reasoning, so I'll ask you the same question I asked TDP.

 

If the sex with your SO was plentiful, and you were never turned down, would you be okay with nothing else being brought to the relationship by the SO?

 

My reasoning is sex in a relationship is just one part. So many people seem to disagree with this in here, as they are so focused on sex, or I should say the lack of, nothing else seems to matter to them. They become so fixated and rigid, there is no talking to them. 99% of the time, heartache ensues. Sometimes, the lack of sex actually originates with the 'victim', therefore could be fixed by the 'victim', but because they refuse to acknowledge they, as the 'victim', could be any part of the problem, the problem escalates instead of being resolved. Again, heartache ensues.

IMO, some people would rather be right than be happy.

[Scrivdog]

All you're say in this post is what countless wives say to their husbands when sex is a bi-annual event.

 

You minimizing the importance of sex. In fact you more than minimize it - you accuse the higher libido person of being too focused on sex ("Is that all you ever think about?")

 

You blame the higher libido person for causing the dry spell.

 

Stick to that position ladies, and we'll be looking forward to welcoming you to the infidelity forum where you may freely screech about how your hubby is now bonking that chick from marketing.

 

 

 

Mem, you say you don't understand my reasoning, so I'll ask you the same question I asked TDP.

 

If the sex with your SO was plentiful, and you were never turned down, would you be okay with nothing else being brought to the relationship by the SO?

 

My reasoning is sex in a relationship is just one part. So many people seem to disagree with this in here, as they are so focused on sex, or I should say the lack of, nothing else seems to matter to them. They become so fixated and rigid, there is no talking to them. 99% of the time, heartache ensues. Sometimes, the lack of sex actually originates with the 'victim', therefore could be fixed by the 'victim', but because they refuse to acknowledge they, as the 'victim', could be any part of the problem, the problem escalates instead of being resolved. Again, heartache ensues.

IMO, some people would rather be right than be happy.

[eeyore1981]

All you're say in this post is what countless wives say to their husbands when sex is a bi-annual event.

 

You minimizing the importance of sex. In fact you more than minimize it - you accuse the higher libido person of being too focused on sex ("Is that all you ever think about?")

 

You blame the higher libido person for causing the dry spell.

 

Stick to that position ladies, and we'll be looking forward to welcoming you to the infidelity forum where you may freely screech about how your hubby is now bonking that chick from marketing.

 

Wow, they are really stacking up. 3 people now who avoid answering a very simple question.

 

Stick to your position, guys, and you will end up having an affair, or in some cases, yet another affair, destroying your SO who you claim to care about, etc, and all to get your rocks off, but no, sex isn't all you ever think about......whatever you have to tell yourself.

 

You act so self-righteous, and you don't even know who you are talking to.

 

6 and a half years of marriage and child #3 before I turned my husband down for the very first time. He turned me down in that same time period so many times I lost count. Up until that point, my sex drive was considerably higher than most people's. I would have gladly had sex 3 times a day or more. I was lucky if it was 3 times a week.

When he said no, I didn't throw hissy fits, demand my 'rights', run around crying about how deprived I was, or any of the other crap I read in here all the time. I tried to figure out what was wrong and fix it, and also tried to come to terms with myself, and find other ways other than sex to make myself happy.

 

My situation is extreme, so I won't go into it, other than to say the first time I said no was I had just given birth 2 weeks before and I had pnuemonia. I even tried, but it hurt too bad. The second time I said no, 2 weeks later, and that was the beginning of the end. His attitude and behavior towards me was so bad I got to the point I didn't want him to touch me anymore.

 

I'm sure at this point you are going to exclaim some crap about how this is all my fault. Knock yourself out, I already heard it all from him, every time I tried to talk to him and work it out, every time I tried to compromise with him just to get sh*t on. I'm sure you can't understand at all how being treated like that made me want sex less and less. No, people like you think the rest of us should just give and give, no matter how little we receive in return, all the while you are going around playing the victim of your spouse 'withholding' sex. I wasn't withholding sh*t, I was traumatized. But hey, I know, all my fault, I didn't tell him before we got married if he treated me like crap and didn't give a damn about me it would negatively affect my ability to perform my sexual duties, so him cheating on me is exactly what I deserved, right, because it's in the marital contract I have sex with him whenever he wants it, yet somehow there doesn't seem to be anything in the marital contract about him treating me like a human being??????

[eeyore1981]

All you're say in this post is what countless wives say to their husbands when sex is a bi-annual event.

 

You minimizing the importance of sex. In fact you more than minimize it - you accuse the higher libido person of being too focused on sex ("Is that all you ever think about?")

 

You blame the higher libido person for causing the dry spell.

 

Stick to that position ladies, and we'll be looking forward to welcoming you to the infidelity forum where you may freely screech about how your hubby is now bonking that chick from marketing.

 

I forgot this one. Stick to your position and your wife will get tired of you and go have lots of hot sticky sex with some other guy who doesn't treat her like her only purpose in life is to get laid. I look forward to hearing some of you complain about it in the future.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Eeyore1981 - Read her post.... They do not have sex. I told her that she should continue this perfect relationship and find someone on the side, with full disclosure. Is that a terrible thought for a couple with no children under 30, two incomes and independence, where one has stated they do not want to have sex. Forget they are M/F, and just are best friends living together. Shouldn't they hope for each others happiness and and if one decides to go out for an afternoon and have sex, all should be fine when they return for dinner and an evening together......

 

You are the one fixated thinking sex is a bad thing.... In this case she should be free to go get it when she wants it.

[mem11363]

Eeyore,

I would not be satisfied with a relationship where the sex was great - and there was nothing else to it.

 

There is a statement that applies perfectly here.

 

Sex is a "necessary but not sufficient component of a happy relationship."

 

It is ludicrous that you are trying to convert our requirement for sex, into a statement along the lines of: "as long as I get sex nothing else matters"

 

 

 

 

Mem, you say you don't understand my reasoning, so I'll ask you the same question I asked TDP.

 

If the sex with your SO was plentiful, and you were never turned down, would you be okay with nothing else being brought to the relationship by the SO?

 

My reasoning is sex in a relationship is just one part. So many people seem to disagree with this in here, as they are so focused on sex, or I should say the lack of, nothing else seems to matter to them. They become so fixated and rigid, there is no talking to them. 99% of the time, heartache ensues. Sometimes, the lack of sex actually originates with the 'victim', therefore could be fixed by the 'victim', but because they refuse to acknowledge they, as the 'victim', could be any part of the problem, the problem escalates instead of being resolved. Again, heartache ensues.

IMO, some people would rather be right than be happy.

[seibert253]

As I read throught this I must be a rare breed. I've never turned my wife down for sex.

 

I've turned OW down for sex, one just last week. She know's my wife and didn't care, her exact words.

 

But my wife, never.

 

Don't know, maybe it's just me.

[eeyore1981]

Eeyore1981 - Read her post.... They do not have sex. I told her that she should continue this perfect relationship and find someone on the side, with full disclosure. Is that a terrible thought for a couple with no children under 30, two incomes and independence, where one has stated they do not want to have sex. Forget they are M/F, and just are best friends living together. Shouldn't they hope for each others happiness and and if one decides to go out for an afternoon and have sex, all should be fine when they return for dinner and an evening together......

 

You are the one fixated thinking sex is a bad thing.... In this case she should be free to go get it when she wants it.

 

I understand they do not have sex, I never implied they did. I also did not say sex was a bad thing. I am responding to all the 'sex, sex, sex' like nothing else could possibly matter.

 

 

Eeyore,

I would not be satisfied with a relationship where the sex was great - and there was nothing else to it.

 

There is a statement that applies perfectly here.

 

Sex is a "necessary but not sufficient component of a happy relationship."

 

It is ludicrous that you are trying to convert our requirement for sex, into a statement along the lines of: "as long as I get sex nothing else matters"

 

You misunderstand. I am converting your requirement for sex into the statement along the lines of, "as long as I am not getting any/enough sex, nothing else matters." See the difference?

 

IMO, most of the people in here have done a lot for their spouses, and don't deserve getting cheated on and all that comes with it because the other person wants more sex. The fact so many feel they do, and proceed to cheat and cause massive destruction tells me these people are very selfish, and I find it very unlikely cheating is the only demonstration of the selfishness, and is probably in a lot of cases the root cause of why the sex dwindled in the first place.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I understand they do not have sex, I never implied they did. I also did not say sex was a bad thing. I am responding to all the 'sex, sex, sex' like nothing else could possibly matter.

 

And I am wondering why an unmarried, childless, independent couple under 30 would stay together if one outright refuses to have sex. Then I take it to the next step and say she should take care of that herself in the context of an NSA affair (or a so-called booty-call) if she feels so strong about maintaining her otherwise "spectacular" relationship.

[mem11363]

That may be what you are hearing - I don't believe that is what anyone is saying.

 

By the way - I won't speak for anyone else. If am getting little or no sex, and my spouse is refusing to discuss it, and has no interest in resolving the problem - that would not be acceptable. Same would be true in reverse. You seem to be trying to caricature us.

 

 

 

 

I understand they do not have sex, I never implied they did. I also did not say sex was a bad thing. I am responding to all the 'sex, sex, sex' like nothing else could possibly matter.

 

 

 

 

You misunderstand. I am converting your requirement for sex into the statement along the lines of, "as long as I am not getting any/enough sex, nothing else matters." See the difference?

 

IMO, most of the people in here have done a lot for their spouses, and don't deserve getting cheated on and all that comes with it because the other person wants more sex. The fact so many feel they do, and proceed to cheat and cause massive destruction tells me these people are very selfish, and I find it very unlikely cheating is the only demonstration of the selfishness, and is probably in a lot of cases the root cause of why the sex dwindled in the first place.

[Mr. Lucky]

By the way - I won't speak for anyone else. If am getting little or no sex, and my spouse is refusing to discuss it, and has no interest in resolving the problem - that would not be acceptable. Same would be true in reverse.

Nor at that point would the issue be just about sex. There are two separate issues in these threads - a lack of intimacy and an unwillingness to discuss or address it.

IMO, most of the people in here have done a lot for their spouses, and don't deserve getting cheated on and all that comes with it because the other person wants more sex. The fact so many feel they do, and proceed to cheat and cause massive destruction tells me these people are very selfish, and I find it very unlikely cheating is the only demonstration of the selfishness, and is probably in a lot of cases the root cause of why the sex dwindled in the first place.

Would you also say that a loved and respected partner that is unwilling to participate in a normal sexual relationship is selfish? And that denial of sex probably isn't the only demonstration of that selfishness?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Holding-On]

Thanks James. It's kind of you to say.

 

I will post if I have any new input. Beyond that, it's just a repetition of what I've already stated.

 

I will re-encourage you to give it some time, a reasonable length of time. After that, it's time to piss or get off the pot. But you already know that.

 

My fingers remain crossed for your marriage. While I don't believe in "until death do you part" at any and all costs, I think what you're doing by putting everything into this marriage, peeking behind every possible corner, is admirable and worthy of respect.

 

Good luck James!

 

I agree, good luck James.

So, update please...we your readers are rooting for you, you know.

Has anything changed with you or still same old same old?