"If you want sex, then you will have to get it somewhere else."

[Phateless]

It's just that her sex drive is lower. This doesn't make her abnormal. It doesn't mean that she's "rejecting" her husband...they should just learn to connect in other ways besides sex.

 

Lower doesn't mean nonexistent. Why are you defending his wife's behavior? Have you read the whole thread and noticed the kind of things she's said to him? She has absolutely no interest in working this out. She wishes he would stop pestering her.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Do other things besides sex??? LMFAO!

 

Like what? hold hands, play a guitar, ride a tandem bike?

 

His wife is not giving him sex because she is using it as a weapon.

 

If your not intimate with your man ladies sooner or later he's gonna question the validity of the relationship. He's gonna think why am I married to this woman. If he constantly approaches her about sex and she turns him down at every turn, what is he supposed to do???

[mem11363]

Please use the "hottest guy" you have ever dated for this scenario:

- You are living together, around him all the time. He is very, very hot.

- Suddenly he loses most interest in sex, on average he randomly says "ok" to your advances once every 3 weeks or so.

-You press him on the subject, ask him why he has so little desire

- He tells you that if it were up to him he would never have sex with you again

- You press him to find out why some more and he says he just doesn't want to.

- You ask him to see a doctor, he doesn't go

- You tell him this has become very, very upsetting to you and he does not seem disturbed or at all empthetic.

 

How would you feel? Honestly?

 

By the way, once ever 3 weeks is NOT in the normal range for folks in there 40's. I looked it up.

 

 

Lower doesn't mean nonexistent. Why are you defending his wife's behavior? Have you read the whole thread and noticed the kind of things she's said to him? She has absolutely no interest in working this out. She wishes he would stop pestering her.

[JamesM]

Wow...I am impressed at how many responses this is getting. I do appreciate the input because it helps in so many ways that I cannot express. The responses have made a difference in my life.

 

 

Damn james make a choice. I couldnt as a man be in a sexless marriage where I didnt get my needs met. It'd be so hard for me to deny that sexual apetitite especially if my wife was smoking hot. And I loved her.

 

Some women just dont know.

 

CB, thanks for getting to the point. I quoted this one, but it was your first one that made me grin. Sorry...I do lead a life outside of LS. It may not be exciting, but it gives me something to talk about on here.

 

I did talk to my wife at length about all of this. However, it was done by phone and she was at work. It began because she made a comment before going to work that she was bothered by the fact that I didn't get any sex from her. (My words...her choice of words was "action" as kids were around). Ironic how it came up...almost as if someone planned it for me. So tonight I brought it up again, and it lead into a conversation that was not emotional but matter of fact.

 

I doubt I could get it all here, but much of what I said and some of what you guys mentioned was discussed during that 20 to 25 minutes. She admitted again she has zero interest, but she felt bad because she knew I needed it. By the time we were done, she really knew how important it was to me, and I compared it to her needing me for a listener and emotional support. I see others here mentioned the same comparison. I truly think she listened and understood. I do not hold up hope and say that our marriage is now miraculously changed. I am not stupid.

 

I asked if she remembered the comment that I started this post with. "So you have been dong that?" I was glad that I could say "No, I have not cheated." She said it was probably said in anger. But I told her that she could not expect to simply avoid it and hope that the marriage went well, because it is a very important part of marriage. Her next comment was (I swear she is really Pink Cupcakes! ) "What if I was dying from cancer? Would that give you a reason to cheat?" And my response was like yours, CB...."BUT you are NOT and you are healthy."

 

She did say that she truly does not know why she has no interest. It could be a number of things...such as being on third shift screws her up, our tendency not to get to bed on time (which is true....I said...but that should not affect your sexual desire), and hormones to mention a couple. And my comment was that "All or none could be true, but for the past four or five years, I have spent alot of time trying to determine why and now I give upp. Only you can change you."

 

And I said..."I think it is also quite possible that you do not see me anymore as a lover or husband but as a great friend and support and father to your children." She said she had never considered that and does not think it is true. But personally, I said that "Until proven differently, then I cannot say the same. At this point," said I, "I think it is me or how you view me."

 

"And what if it is?" she said. I said "Then we will need to move along and you can find someone who is better for you. I guess I would like you to be happy." She still did not think this was possible.

 

We both did make the comment that the fact that we could still talk about it made it possible to solve. So now we will see what happens.

 

Personally, I think there will be some improvement, but based on the past, I don't see a LT improvement. However, at this point the ball is in her court. While divorce is not an option, she knows that holding me to fidelity while she refuses or at best evades changing or finding a solution is not an option.

 

So what happens when you get older and you can't have sex as much anyway? What happens if your partner gets cancer and can't have sex for a year or longer? Do you dump them because you're not having sex and therefor the connection is gone?

 

Like I said, are you my wife? Weak argument, because, if I was dying from cancer and had no voice, would I still find a way to be her emotional support? Yes.

 

 

Sounds like Jame's wife is simply not as sex driven, but she does have sex and enjoy it when she has it, about twice a month. So the sex connection is there, the connection is going to have to be supplemented with more than the physical.

 

If what the other poster said, that a sexual connection is the only way a man connects, then he can go purchase that connection with a prostitute and not bother with marriage. With that logic, the only reason men get married is not love, but sex, which is whack.

 

I am not sure where you get that we have sex twice a month. Fact is we have sex...maybe....once every couple of months and that is because I pushed. And when I say enjoy, I do not mean having orgasms as in the past nor getting as excited as in the past. She simply doesn't get repulsed by it. And when the comment is made that "Good you are done" or similar, then I guess the moment is lost.

 

A man connects in a big way sexually, while a woman connects mainly through emotional connections. That is why many women are hurt more when husbands cheat emotionally than if their husband simply went to a prostitute.

 

Men connect through sex because that is the way they express their love in marriage. Women feel bonded mostly through emotions. hence, a woman is emotionally disconnected from her husband has a hard time sexually bonding. And a man has the mistaken notion that if the two can have sex, then all will be well.

 

Hey, I know alot about how couples relate...I just cannot get my wife to love sex.

 

 

Something is niggling at the back of my mind, about his wife taking some form of medication. Also, weight gain can affect libido, reliant on how much weight has been gained, not necessarily that his wife has gained weight.

 

Until he gets a more definitive response from his wife, no one can know her true feelings on this.

 

Any medications she is currently taking have no impact on her libido. I say this after extensive research. In the past, yes. Her weight does impact her mood, but even when she has lost it, her libido has not improved. She is by far not a BBW. She certainly is not Kate Moss.

 

See above. She says she does not know why. And because she is denies and avoids, then she tends to push this problem away unless I make it an issue. I truly hope that I don't intend to keep making it an issue. It is her decision on what to do.

 

This is also not about a sexless marriage from what James describes. When it comes to the frequency of sex, Mr. and Mrs. James aren’t outside the norm when it comes to the average married couple.

 

My hat goes off to this married couple because in spite of their issues, they are still a testimony to their strength. Both as a couple and as individuals.

 

You have given some excellent input and I appreciate it more than I could express. Some of your comments have stopped me from following through with anything rash...as have some other comments here. I think this thread with its responses was an effort to keep me faithful just a little longer. And if you told me that I would be having this talk to night, I would not have believed you. As of now, I have some hope that it will produce some results, but not alot. I will give it time...until all hope is gone.

 

Having said that, I must correct this. The norm for any marriage is different, but most would say that having sex once every six to eight weeks is not normal. But on top of that, having a wife who has no sexual desire could easily be defined as a sexless marriage, or at the least very mismatched libidos. Both are recipes for a disaster.

 

And thank you for the compliment at the end.

 

I would have to hear James's wife's side of the situation to really understand it. Maybe her comment just meant she doesn't feel like doing it that much. If it is that she is denying sex as a passive agressive tactic, then that is different, but if she is feeling resentment, then hopefully MC would help to get to the core of her resentment.

 

We don't know if it is possible that James's wife simply has a lower sex drive than her husband.

 

First off, we DO know that she has a lower sex drive. THAT is our problem. Actually, she has NO sex drive. However, I have stated here and will do so again....I do not "need" sex more than once a week. And even then, depending on the schedule, I can see it being less. If we had it twice a month and it was a mutually passionate "affair," then I would never say we had any problem.

 

Read above. She either doesn't know what her problem is, or denies facing the problem, or won't tell me the problem. In any case, without a reason, we can reach no solution.

 

It's just that her sex drive is lower. This doesn't make her abnormal. It doesn't mean that she's "rejecting" her husband...they should just learn to connect in other ways besides sex.

 

:lmao: We do. If we didn't, then this marriage would have been over long before I joined LS.

 

Again, something my wife said.

 

If only James could get rid of that pesky testosterone then all would be well in Cupcake land...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

:lmao:

 

I think your correct TBF!

 

James, I doubt your wife is happy with the situation. I know your not considering divorce because of the kids, and I would bet money she has the same thing in mind.

 

There is a good chance that once your kids are old enough... your wife will be the one initiating a divorce. You should be prepared for that!

 

 

At this point, I don't see this to be the case at all. I didn't before either. Our friendship has always been too strong. I have aid that more than once. Her emotional bond to me is very important to her. IF she had someone else as a emotional support, then we would not have one. THEN I would say you may be right.

 

I always knew she was not happy with the situation. But I also know that this is because I am not happy with it. If my libido was non existent than we would be happy in her eyes. Yet she knows deep down that marriages do need that sexual bond to survive. My talk to her made her realize...at least it did tonight....that her marriage needs that sexual bond, too.

 

 

 

That right there is the heart of James's problem, IMO. He won't leave her, and she knows it. So she has no motivation to meet his needs. She knows that he needs her a lot more than she needs him.

 

[[OpenBook shudders]] So sorry to hear this, James, I feel for you man... You're a dead man walking.

 

Thanks for the smile at the end. You are right. She has no motivation because she does not miss it. And she does know I won't leave her. However, tonight, I made it clear that I considered it cheating if she refused sex yet expected me to remain faithful to her. If she decides that it is not important enough to make some changes or do some research as to why she has no libido, I think she knows that she cannot count on me to remain faithful as she thought before. Yet I don't think she has the feeling that I WANT to cheat.

 

the more I read this the more I think James's W just cares for him, but she doesn't love him anymore.

 

James seems to be very good with guilt as I am. I'm the champion of guilt. It's my speciality. I feel guilty for everything and about everything. My counsellor once told me that guilt is repressed anger. I think he had a point.

 

No, I don't think so. I didn't before tonight, and I don't now. I am not as confident to say that she may not love me as sexually as she did in the past. And as I said to her, I am not confident to say that another guy could turn that switch back on. However, I am quite confident that her love is still there.

 

I totally agree. Your wife will not simply accept you seeking it somewhere esle despite what she said. And I don't think you would be happy doing so anyway. What you crave is the physical and emotional connection to your wife that can only come through sex.

 

 

What would your wife do if you told her, "If I had my druthers, I wouldn't provide you with emotional support anymore, and I don't care if you get it somewhere else"? Would she suck it up and stay with you if you preferred distance and withdrawal and if that is all you offered for the rest of your lives?

 

I didn't quote all of your great comments for the lack of space...thanks.

 

She said that comment came out of anger and not because she believed it. Truthfully, I don't know if she really remembered it. As for me being happy, yes and no. As I have told others and tell myself. It would fulfill the sexual desire but it will not fulfil the intimate and sexual bonding I want with my wife. That does not mean it would not satisfy at some degree.

 

As I said above, I said much of what you asked here. And I think she was able to see better what I missed from sex.

 

I loved this post. The bolded portion concerns me about James. As a man who has been sitting on the edge of decision, in many ways, I think he's emotionally already exited his marriage in some ways. He's been ripe for the picking for years now, for predatory individuals. I truly hope he hasn't succumbed to external validators/predators, especially considering his beliefs in both marriage and religion.

 

Yes, you are correct in some ways. And I am still on the edge even though I see that there will be change. I know I have been ripe for the picking for years, and by recognizing that I have stayed unpicked.

 

No, I have not succumbed to anyone. And this talk may keep that off a little longer. Without finding LS four years ago, I doubt I could say that.

 

I’m stating that there’s no better time to lean on one’s own core values and personal convictions then when the chips are down. It’s easy to succumb to our own self-pity and do what feels good or easiest for ourselves in the moment and loose sight of the eventual outcome or consequences of our choices. In these situations, we are even inclined to lose sight of ourselves and who we are as individuals in the process.

 

Indeed, it’s easy to feel swayed, even completely changed by external influences. But what happens “to us” has nothing at all to do with how we choose to reciprocate, respond or react. That’s all on us, as individuals. And in the end, we’re all left standing alone to reconcile the decisions we’ve made. Good or bad.

 

I’m of the belief that when it comes to dismantling a marriage or entire family, no stone should be left unturned before deciding to pull the plug. I agree with the others that professional counseling is a viable third option to infidelity or divorce. Particularly for someone who considers their children’s emotional well-being as one of the main reasons for wanting to make their marriage work. Infidelity is just as detrimental to the family unit as divorce. It’s not nearly the safe “option” to marital recovery or divorce that many would like to make it seem. It’s simply a longer and more painful road to the same end, and usually involves exposing a third party to the ensuing relationship chaos who is not qualified or trained to be an objective observer or of any real “help” to the individual, the marriage or the family unit... IF salvaging the marriage is one’s main objective.

 

This is a time for James to consider what his real priorities and values are, and act in accordance to his own conscience and personal convictions without being swayed the by the agendas of others looking to validate themselves through him. What one does in the face of adversity is the only true measure of a man (or woman) in spite of whatever opinions we outsiders might have regarding James, his wife and the state of their marriage.

 

Whatever his decision, James will act in accordance with whomever James is... as a free-thinking individual fully capable of making his own choices.

 

This is an awesome post and it gives me more credit than I deserve. Crazy thing almost brought tears to my eyes.

 

The last comment is how I will end. It is very perceptive and it is why I can read over and over..."Divorce her" even after I said over and over again that it is not an option at this point. (To me divorce means failure...yes, even more so than an affair.) However, it is also why I needed so many of these posts here to remind me that it is my decision and it is my life, but it is also me that will live with the consequences.

 

No change has happened yet. I do feel somewhat more hopeful. I also know that I can be more at peace with any other option other than fixing it, because I have given that option even one more try when a solution is out of my control.

 

NOTE...Any errors or typos are unintended, and I give my apologies. I need to get to bed.

[Trialbyfire]

James, has your wife ever been checked for low testosterone levels? Refer to the linked information about how a woman's testosterone levels can be within normal range but not be at optimal levels. This could account for her low libido.

 

http://www.wernermd.com/LowTestosterone.html

[giotto]

James, I do believe I'm married to your wife as well... so many similarities!

[tommyr]

It seems to me you had the perfect opportunity to get a clear and direct answer from her on the topic, and instead you are still in limbo. While it sounds like you had a great conversation, please tell me why you did not:

 

• correlate her meeting your needs to you meeting hers
  
• ask if she would be willing to meet your need for sex 1X per week
  

Like you I tried everything and this was the approach has actually worked for me, and not just short term results, but 2 years of intimacy like never before.

 

James, how long do you intend to hang out remaining hopeful? You have every right to ask her if she intends to meet your needs. This is critical information that you are entitled to. If she responds:

 

YES - great, then she will have no reason to be mad if you put the kids to be early and remind her that a week has passed

 

NO - at least you know where you stand and can stop wondering, remaining hopeful

[giotto]

James, how long do you intend to hang out remaining hopeful? You have every right to ask her if she intends to meet your needs. This is critical information that you are entitled to. If she responds:

 

YES - great, then she will have no reason to be mad if you put the kids to be early and remind her that a week has passed

 

NO - at least you know where you stand and can stop wondering, remaining hopeful

 

but, what's the point of this? James is not leaving, so she does not need to answer and she will not answer, because it's too painful for her and doesn't want to deal with it. She does not need to do one single thing. She is never going to have sex with him 1/week. She has a demanding job + kids and family life... she'll never be in the mood with no sex drive. I know this, because when we have sex, it's usually one o'clock in the morning, because there's always some child in the way. My son (14) went to bed at 4 o'clock in the morning during the summer holidays - every single night - and his bedroom is next to ours!

 

James has to resign himself to have sex occasionally... this is the reality. I doubt she will change, unless he does something drastic and he won't...

[SadandConfusedWA]

Given that this is the long term problem, I still feel like the reason for no sex is your wife's loss of sexual attraction to you. She loves you but is not "in love" with you.

 

How was your sexual chemistry in the earlier years? Was this always a problem? Has your relationship always been based more on friendship/emotional connection than on strong passion?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

For MOST guys this is way more about feeling loved and desired then it is about a good orgasm. I would not tolerate sexual aversion or sexual indifference in my marriage. Sex is not an "optional" part of marriage UNLESS you have a medical condition.

 

However, right now my wife has some inflammation thing. Started 5 days ago. Might last another few days, another week - heck once before in our 20 year marriage she had this and it lasted 2 months. So how much tension does that cause us. None. Because:

- I KNOW my wife loves me and desires me, so this is not happening in the context of me wondering about the strength of her feelings for me

- I tell her I am sorry for her - it is not comfortable being - inflamed.

- She tells me she is sorry for not performing her "wifely duties" LOL

- She also routinely offers to relieve me in that most delightful of ways and I know this is a sincere offer

- And I say "no thanks" and I just suck it up. I figure that is being a nice partner, I mean since she is seriously uncomfortable it would be a little selfish me saying sure a BJ would be nice. Maybe eventually I might break down if this goes on for a long time but I have a lot of self control.

- But every day I touch, kiss, caress and massage her - which does make me get a bit overheated - but it is nice and I know it is nice for her also

- And tomorrow I think we will give each other long full body massages

 

 

But this situation would be totally different if she was sexually averse to me or emotionally indifferent to my needs or both. That would evoke an immediate reaction from me:

"This needs to be fixed, and quickly and I need to know it is just as high a priority for her as it is for me" Because those two things are "core" and I would not tolerate her giving them a low priority.

 

Mem11363.... Thanks again for reiterating for the 100th time your wonderful marriage, great sex life, a spouse who understands wifely duties (very sexist), love of massages and incredible self restraint.....

 

Can I suggest you seriously consider masturbation?????

[mem11363]

So you only want posts from other people who have NOT solved this problem? I think those posts are great. They are also high on empathy and avoidant of any consequence based behavior - the only behavior that might improve things.

 

So is the goal is to momentarily feel better by immersing in similar stories by other people? Or is it to actually try to solve something?

 

If this is how you treat your wife - total silence puntuated by the occassional ineffective outburst, no wonder you are developing carpal tunnel syndrome.

 

 

 

 

 

Mem11363.... Thanks again for reiterating for the 100th time your wonderful marriage, great sex life, a spouse who understands wifely duties (very sexist), love of massages and incredible self restraint.....

 

Can I suggest you seriously consider masturbation?????

[jasminetea]

Mem, I'm sure you understand that its pretty hard to swallow someone telling you many times how great their [insert here] is when your [same insert here] isn't so great.

[JamesM]

James, has your wife ever been checked for low testosterone levels? Refer to the linked information about how a woman's testosterone levels can be within normal range but not be at optimal levels. This could account for her low libido.

 

http://www.wernermd.com/LowTestosterone.html

 

No, and thank you for the link. She had an appointment set up two weeks ago for an exam regarding hormone levels, etc. Unfortunately it had to be canceled. She has one scheduled again...don't know when.

 

She has said many times that she thinks it is hormones. I cannot say I agree, but either way, it is up to her.

 

James, I do believe I'm married to your wife as well... so many similarities!

 

I agree, but I think there are differences.

 

It seems to me you had the perfect opportunity to get a clear and direct answer from her on the topic, and instead you are still in limbo.

 

Thanks for your input. However, I will show you why I disagree. I may be wrong. Last night I wrote this and may have left some parts out. If a clear answer is "yes, I will have sex x times a week," then you are right. Or even "no," then you are right.

 

But the thing she got probably most is that I don't really care as much that she has little to no interest. If she wants to fix it, then fine. She knows that I consider her lack of interest in changing an affirmation of the "Get it elsewhere" comment.

 

correlate her meeting your needs to you meeting hers

 

I did. I compared my "need"or rather my affirmation of love through sex to her need or affirmation of love through conversation, communication, listening and emotional support. This is huge to her, and probably more so than my need for sex. I specifically asked how she would feel if every time she want to sit down and share her day or simply chat, I would say that I don't feel like it and have zero interest...or come up with something else that needs doing. And if I avoided finding out why, what would her response be. Wouldn't she look for someone else to fill that void? And i told her that knowing her, I think she would.

 

I touched on this briefly in my third paragraph, I see.

 

ask if she would be willing to meet your need for sex 1X per week

 

I did not. Here is why. Was your wife sexually abused? And when each incident occurred, she was told/commanded...."meet me later," or "later I am going to..." This has always put a crimp into the idea of scheduled sex. (For those who ask, yes, she has had extensive counseling that eliminated much of the fallout). It doesn't eliminate it, but when I say "We will have it on such and such a day or so often" then it makes it much less enjoyable. I understand why and I see the consequences when I have pushed this over the years. It doesn't mean we cannot schedule it, but for me to say it will happen or else would simply eliminate any love/passion that she might enjoy. Not only that, for her it would bring a loss of control of her own body.

 

Because of the sexual abuse, she "learned" as a child that her body was not hers to control. The devastation of that still remains. Imagine knowing that any time someone wants sex for his pleasure, then you would be required to fill that position. She endured that from someone who allegedly loved her. And as TBF has stated earlier through her question, her body needs to be hers to control.

 

That does not bother me. It is the rejection of me and my needs that hits me the hardest. And yes, I told her that, too. If this was really "our" problem, then I would feel completely different about it.

 

I went farther than a quantity of times for sex. I said that she needs to find out why she doesn't want it and fix that. If her love for me is as she says, then she will do so.

 

I refuse to set a certain amount per week. Yes, once a week is nice and would be plenty, but honestly, once every other week with her passionately enjoying it...that would make it even more special. It is not about the lack of sex only, it is about her lack of interest in sex that really gets to me. For her to have sex once a week because she feels that this makes me happy...yet she only does it for that reason, makes it akin to abuse for even me.

 

 

Like you I tried everything and this was the approach has actually worked for me, and not just short term results, but 2 years of intimacy like never before.

 

Good for you. I know that in my case it would be at best a short term solution.

 

James, how long do you intend to hang out remaining hopeful? You have every right to ask her if she intends to meet your needs. This is critical information that you are entitled to.

 

As long as I still feel there is a chance. I do not forget that I made a vow to my marriage (for better or for worse). And in that vow, I did not set a time limit on how faithful I would be. And while I feel that she has not held up her end, I know that my love for her cannot simply let me say that it is now or never. One thing I have learned recently is that it is about timing. I know that when the time to say enough is enough, I will know.

 

Sex is important, but it is not my life. At this point, she is. Perhaps in a year I will feel differently. Perhaps in a month.

 

If she responds:

 

YES - great, then she will have no reason to be mad if you put the kids to bed early and remind her that a week has passed

 

NO - at least you know where you stand and can stop wondering, remaining hopeful

 

Okay, so she says yes. Suddenly, every Saturday night will be her childhood all over again. Suddenly I will become that abuser that gives her that ultimatum every weekend. Not only is this not love, it is nowhere near what I want for a sex life. One of the things I love about her is her spontaneity. Taking that away will kill her passion. And for me, it would be no fun whatsoever.

 

And in your case, if she says no, then I am to withhold emotional support. This does a couple of things. It forces her to scenario one which is similar to her abuse, or it tears our marriage apart completely. My goal is adding sex...not killing our love for one another.

 

And if she had said no to me on the phone, or rather if she had told me that she did not want to find out why she had no interest, then she knows what my response is. I told her. I would consider that an affirmation of her comment to get it elsewhere. I did not say this as a threat, nor did I say that in anger. I simply said that I wanted sex from her as an expression of her love as she considers my time and emotional support as an expression of love. However, if she views it as simply something that is my need, then she shouldn't mind if I fulfilled it somewhere else. I think that said it clearly..."I want it with you, but if needs be..."

 

I have not threatened divorce, nor will I.

 

but, what's the point of this? James is not leaving, so she does not need to answer and she will not answer, because it's too painful for her and doesn't want to deal with it.

 

At this point, no, I will not leave. At this point, my love for her is strong enough to keep me here and give her time. In the past four years, I have not stood back and left it up to her. It has been about me finding a solution. She knows and said so. I told her that I cannot change her and she must do so.

 

It is not that it is painful, it is that she has no "hunger." I have done enough research to know that if it is a physical reason, then this is entirely possible. If it is emotional or based on her love to me, then she needs to face it.

 

Will she? That remains to be seen.

 

You may be right, and I may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you are looking at. (Sing it with me. )

 

She does not need to do one single thing. She is never going to have sex with him 1/week. She has a demanding job + kids and family life... she'll never be in the mood with no sex drive. I know this, because when we have sex, it's usually one o'clock in the morning, because there's always some child in the way. My son (14) went to bed at 4 o'clock in the morning during the summer holidays - every single night - and his bedroom is next to ours!

 

First of all, I don't want her to feel forced. I want her to feel the need to do so for the sake of her marriage and family and her husband that she loves. I don't want a set amount per week. I never have. I set a number of once a week to show that I don't need a lot, but I can be just as happy if it is more sporadic...maybe twice this week, and none next or whatever. It is the idea that "if it is not necessary to me, then it should not be necessary to you" attitude that gets me upset.

 

Second, I could list other problems that could be at the root of our not sexually connecting, but they can all be overcome if there is a desire. For instance, because of her third shift job, our sleeping schedules are different. And yes, children add into the picture. But when she was into sex, all of this did not matter. Hey, she would get into it even if the door were open....and our kids could all walk in.

 

As for sex at one in the morning, I don't even want that. This kinda cuts into my sleeping schedule. And quite often when we have had it, then it was at that time. I know my wife....if she wanted it, then we would have time.

 

BTW, my son at 13 was in bed by 10:30pm or 11pm at the latest during the summer hours. I cannot imagine letting him stay up that late.

 

James has to resign himself to have sex occasionally... this is the reality. I doubt she will change, unless he does something drastic and he won't...

 

You may be right. She has changed in the past, but for a short term. Honestly at this point, I expect that again. If drastic is divorce, then you are right....it is not happening now. If I feel that it is best, then I know myself. I also know that she wants her family together, and she does, then she will do something. Will it have a lasting change? I am with you...I don't think so at this point.

 

I can never express how I would feel if I did something drastic and we divorced....then she discovers it is simply hormone levels or she resolved her emotional issues. I would have lost a best friend and family over sex. Shocking as that may be, sex is NOT that important to me...yet.

 

Given that this is the long term problem, I still feel like the reason for no sex is your wife's loss of sexual attraction to you. She loves you but is not "in love" with you.

 

Could be. As I stated above, I discussed this with her. I am prepared if she discovers this to be the case. And I told her (as stated above) that I would want her to be happy, and if letting her go is necessary, then I will do so.

 

How was your sexual chemistry in the earlier years? Was this always a problem? Has your relationship always been based more on friendship/emotional connection than on strong passion?

 

Much better. We have always had different libido levels, but never where it didn't happen. This all started within the past five to seven years. Our relationship was based on both. Our dating days were quite passionate. Our honeymoon had too much sex for even me. But sex has always gone up and down...this I can accept. Having none....that I cannot accept.

 

BTW, I could list a number of passionate somewhat crazy things that have happened in the sex department, but I feel that these are our moments. It is not that she has lacked spontaneity or innovation....it is that the desire died.

 

Mem11363.... Thanks again for reiterating for the 100th time your wonderful marriage, great sex life, a spouse who understands wifely duties (very sexist), love of massages and incredible self restraint.....

 

Can I suggest you seriously consider masturbation?????

 

BTW, mem, I do like the idea of "massages." That may be my next step. TDP. I am not sure if the masturbation is to me or to mem, but I am guessing me. Yes, I have told myself that I must have sex with myself at least once a week or I will look elsewhere for it. That scared me enough so I think I will comply.

 

All in all, I know that this conversation hit home for her. Will it bring her passion back? Who knows. Does she know how it will affect our marriage if she does not take the initiative in finding a solution? Yes. The question is....does she care enough about me to do so? And that remains to be seen. We have a day alone this week for a date that I was planned last week. She is looking forward to it. Any conversation regarding sex can be started by her.

 

 

I am a patient man. I am one who keeps trying over an over. As long as I think there is a solution to a problem, then I can try again. Or in this case, as long as I think she is willing to give it a shot, then I will wait. This has served me well in the field of management for the past two decades, and it has helped me find solutions for family matters for almost the same length of time. In some cases, I have been too patient, but I have learned that unless the gut feeling is "go for it," then going against what I feel inside usually causes for a bad decision. I know that when my gut says it is over, then it will be time. That has not happened...yet.

 

The outcome remains to be seen. I am willing to admit that it can go either way.

[Phateless]

I couldn't be with someone so cruel. She feels a little guilty about it but feels absolutely no need to change things. SHE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT YOUR NEEDS.

 

James, it breaks my heart that you insist on staying with her. If I were you, I would at least refuse to share a bed with her.

[giotto]

It is not that it is painful, it is that she has no "hunger."

 

I meant "emotionally painful"...

 

My wife was "abused" as well when she was young, emotionally abused by her parents who kept having affairs for selfish reasons, despite huge suffering and arguments in the family. They distroyed the first 18 years of her life.

 

This is the root of her problems. She now needs to be in control, all the time, in total control of her life. If something controls her, she stops it. Her sex life was getting out of control, because she felt obliged to have sex with me, because we were married. So, she stopped sex. Unfortunately, she didn't explain this to me. The more pressure I put on her, the more she felt out of control. She controlled me by controlling the amount of sex she was giving me. And that's why sex could never be planned. Because I was planning it, not her.

 

She needs IC, but she will never go. She knows what's wrong with her, but she'll never admit it...

 

So, in my case, I had to shock her into a decision. I knew I had no chance, so I had nothing to lose, really. But she has changed. And I have changed. Because I've understood. She never told me the reason, but I don't need her to tell me.

 

The reason why I suspect a "friend/father", but not lover, scenario is because she used to want sex with you and she had sex with you often. Like my wife, if she has a control problem, why allowing sex at the beginning of the relationship? Because she loved you... now, she sees you as a friend and she wants to control the side of the friendship she dosn't like: sex.

 

BTW, my son at 13 was in bed by 10:30pm or 11pm at the latest during the summer hours. I cannot imagine letting him stay up that late.

 

I'm quite liberal with my son. He is a good, intelligent boy. If he does well at school and doesn't get into trouble, he can stay up until 4 o'clock in the morning during the summer holidays, as far as I'm concerned.

[JamesM]

I couldn't be with someone so cruel. She feels a little guilty about it but feels absolutely no need to change things. SHE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT YOUR NEEDS.

 

I do not think she is cruel. She feels a need to change thing but no desire. Again, think of when you are hungry and think of when you are not.

 

James, it breaks my heart that you insist on staying with her. If I were you, I would at least refuse to share a bed with her.

 

Insisting on not sharing a bed does nothing. And don't let it break your heart. (Funny thing is...those were her words..."It breaks my heart that you are hurting so much." Okay someone will start a post with that comment, so I will wait to continue that thought until then.)

 

I honestly feel at this point that I have chosen to stay. This talk did that for me...it made it clear that I want to stay longer. It made it clear to me that getting sex outside of marriage is not an option yet either.

 

1. Divorce is not an option.

2. Outside sex is not an option yet.

3. Fixing the marriage even after this long still feels right and possible (albeit a small amount) in my gut.

 

Does fixing my marriage seem weak or "the easy way out?" So be it on people's opinions. For me, the easiest way out is not divorce, nor fixing the marriage. By far the easiest way out is getting sex elsewhere.

 

The question remains despite the "after game" analysis is...will this produce results?

 

This remains to be seen. I am fairly confident that it will produce short term results at least for maybe a few months or a year. But unless, she gets to the real reason WHY she has no desire for sex, then it will not last.

[JamesM]

Men have posted that sex is a man's way to emotionally connect with their spouse/SO. It is their road to connect with the person in their life. It is the way they feel love and appreciation ... as well as acceptance as a man.

 

But men have also posted that it is a non-emotional act and simply a physiological urge that can be satiated (as if interchangeably) through a prostitute or a 'no strings' ONS.

 

This appears to be contradictory.

 

Which is it?

 

Sex for men is the best way to show love. It is also an affirmation that they are a man.

 

It is not how they connect emotionally to a woman. That is separate. However, it is the language that they understand. When their wife wants them sexually, then it says more than that she loves him. It says she desires him as a man.

 

While most men want this from their wife, if this becomes an empty hole, then they seek it elsewhere.

[norajane]

She did say that she truly does not know why she has no interest. It could be a number of things...such as being on third shift screws her up, our tendency not to get to bed on time (which is true....I said...but that should not affect your sexual desire), and hormones to mention a couple. And my comment was that "All or none could be true, but for the past four or five years, I have spent alot of time trying to determine why and now I give upp. Only you can change you."

 

And I said..."I think it is also quite possible that you do not see me anymore as a lover or husband but as a great friend and support and father to your children." She said she had never considered that and does not think it is true. But personally, I said that "Until proven differently, then I cannot say the same. At this point," said I, "I think it is me or how you view me."

 

"And what if it is?" she said. I said "Then we will need to move along and you can find someone who is better for you. I guess I would like you to be happy." She still did not think this was possible.

 

Occam's Razor...

 

A woman who felt passion for you before but that has dwindled and disappeared, well, it's not at all unusual for that to happen in a long marriage. She just may not want to admit it and risk divorce. But she was testing the water with her "and what if it is?" to see how you'd react to that. That's the only thing - that she's lost interest in you as a lover - that would get you to divorce. So that's the last thing she will admit to if she doesn't want to divorce.

[Juniper22]

Honestly, I don't know what else there is left to discuss. I don't mean that in a harsh way, its just that it seems its been discussed over and over again, and no one is coming any closer to finding a solution.

 

I'm sure its a good place to vent, or get others ideas, suggestion, and opinions etc. But after awhile its kind of like, wow, why are you continuing to do this to yourself and what are you getting from it!

[carhill]

Go with her to that doctor appointment. I'm assuming the two of you are financially well off enough to take one day off. While you're at it, make an appointment with a counselor for that day too. Think of it as a personal day. No job is more important than your marriage. Make that appointment today

[JamesM]

 

My wife was "abused" as well when she was young, emotionally abused by her parents who kept having affairs for selfish reasons, despite huge suffering and arguments in the family. They destroyed the first 18 years of her life.

 

The reason why I suspect a "friend/father", but not lover, scenario is because she used to want sex with you and she had sex with you often. Like my wife, if she has a control problem, why allowing sex at the beginning of the relationship? Because she loved you... now, she sees you as a friend and she wants to control the side of the friendship she doesn't like: sex.

 

My wife was abused sexually by her father. It has destroyed more than the first 18 years of her life.

 

When I say control, I am saying controlling her body. Telling her that sex WILL happen despite her feelings at least x amount of times will not solve the problem. I know this and do not use it as an excuse. I have no problem with this. My goal was and would be to make her realize that sex is important and more than just a physical need. It is best when used as an expression of love and if she lost the desire than this means that she cannot express herself as a woman ought to her husband.

 

By defining the quantity of sex as a need I have IMO defeats the purpose. I can give a number, but what I really want as stated by TBF, is that physical and sexual bonding that only she can give. And if she has sex out of fear of losing me because I need a certain quantity, then this is simply me abusing her body. But if she realizes that her lack of desire is what is killing our marriage, then she knows that the ball is in her court and she controls the future of her marriage. IMO this looks at the bigger picture.

 

Does she only love me as a friend? I don't know, but I did tell her that I see that this is where we are at. Unless she can prove that it is physical, then my opinion is that we are great friends and parents...but not lovers or husband and wife. She knows that this will not work.

[giotto]

Honestly, I don't know what else there is left to discuss. I don't mean that in a harsh way, its just that it seems its been discussed over and over again, and no one is coming any closer to finding a solution.

 

I'm sure its a good place to vent, or get others ideas, suggestion, and opinions etc. But after awhile its kind of like, wow, why are you continuing to do this to yourself and what are you getting from it!

 

sure, but I had to explain my "control theory" first! I don't know how applicable that is, but abused women often need to control and to feel in control in their lives... and I'll stop here!

[giotto]

My wife was abused sexually by her father. It has destroyed more than the first 18 years of her life.

 

When I say control, I am saying controlling her body. Telling her that sex WILL happen despite her feelings at least x amount of times will not solve the problem. I know this and do not use it as an excuse. I have no problem with this. My goal was and would be to make her realize that sex is important and more than just a physical need. It is best when used as an expression of love and if she lost the desire than this means that she cannot express herself as a woman ought to her husband.

 

By defining the quantity of sex as a need I have IMO defeats the purpose. I can give a number, but what I really want as stated by TBF, is that physical and sexual bonding that only she can give. And if she has sex out of fear of losing me because I need a certain quantity, then this is simply me abusing her body. But if she realizes that her lack of desire is what is killing our marriage, then she knows that the ball is in her court and she controls the future of her marriage. IMO this looks at the bigger picture.

 

Does she only love me as a friend? I don't know, but I did tell her that I see that this is where we are at. Unless she can prove that it is physical, then my opinion is that we are great friends and parents...but not lovers or husband and wife. She knows that this will not work.

 

well, although you said she's had extensive therapy to solve the issue, it looks like the issue is still there and it's a huge mountain to climb. Seems to me you don't want to inflict even more pain to a woman that has suffered a lot in the past and that you love dearly. I think it's a good approach and a good enough reason to stay and try to solve the issue.

[Juniper22]

sure, but I had to explain my "control theory" first! I don't know how applicable that is, but abused women often need to control and to feel in control in their lives... and I'll stop here!

 

 

I understand. Its that it must get old, all of it. I couldn't imagine beating my head against the wall over and over again, but yet getting the same result. I would need to do something to change my situation. But, that's just me.

[JamesM]

But she was testing the water with her "and what if it is?" to see how you'd react to that. That's the only thing - that she's lost interest in you as a lover - that would get you to divorce. So that's the last thing she will admit to if she doesn't want to divorce.

 

I thought of this and as I have said...have to believe it to be true. However, as I have told others and tell myself...that can be regained...if she wants it. I know she doesn't want a divorce ever.

 

And no, there can be other reasons. In my research, I found a number of examples of women who lost interest and regained it when they increased hormone levels, etc. I don't say that to give myself false hope. I say it to avoid grabbing what I think is the problem and missing the real problem.

 

What I need from her most is....the feeling that this is OUR problem and not just MINE. As of now, I think maybe she is getting that. Where that leads...who knows.

 

But leaving before I know is not where I am at. If she lost that love, then carhill's suggestion of counseling is the next attempt. However, if we attend counseling and discover that the doctor finds low testosterone levels, then we will have missed the boat.

 

If she discovers that she simply lost her love for me, then we have a decision to make. Counseling or leaving.

 

Honestly, I don't know what else there is left to discuss. I don't mean that in a harsh way, its just that it seems its been discussed over and over again, and no one is coming any closer to finding a solution.

 

I'm sure its a good place to vent, or get others ideas, suggestion, and opinions etc. But after awhile its kind of like, wow, why are you continuing to do this to yourself and what are you getting from it!

 

Really there is nothing to discuss, and I could quit responding to posts. But you are right, LS has always proven a way for me to vent. And it also brings up different perspectives and ideas. So I keep going.

 

 

 

Why am I continuing to do this to myself? Good question....I guess I do love her maybe. Out of curiosity, does anyone think i should keep trying?