"If you want sex, then you will have to get it somewhere else."

[Phateless]

Because something has to shock her out of her complacency, and the only thing left is her wanting to save the marriage. Right now she just doesn't care and something has to change that.

[tnhusband]

Because something has to shock her out of her complacency, and the only thing left is her wanting to save the marriage. Right now she just doesn't care and something has to change that.

 

 

I'm telling you guys - there is nothing that will shock her. Nothing will motivate her. The libido cannot be compared to other things so there are no good analogies.

 

If I am reading his situation correctly - it seems very similar to mine. I bet he has already tried all the things you guys have suggested.

 

She actually suggested he go get it somewhere else - don't you all see - James especially - she doesn't know what is wrong with her. All these things you try on her make her feel worse, less attractive, less sexy, less of a person, less of a wife. Not helping!

 

If she were bald would you keep bringing it up all the time so maybe she would grow hair - of course not. It wouldn't help and she knows she's bald (terrible analogy!)

 

From what I understand the chances are high that either he will leave her or he will just live with this.

 

If he trys to leave - any change in her libido would be temporary at best as she's now motivated by fear and love. But that does not actually fix her libido does it?

 

If he lives with it without changing - then things will stay the same.

 

Or he could try to find out what he could change about himself that would get that passion back.

 

I had fun figuring out what to change - some things I tried were just plain stupid or I hated or even she hated me changing. The things I personally changed may not work for your situation but once you get your mind wrapped around the concept - commit to it and see!

 

Some argue that I am not being true to myself by changing who I am - but I don't look at it like that. I look at like when you are first dating someone - you are on your best behavior. You dress nice, smell nice - pull out all the stops. I am still me - just a new and improved me - or some might say - I'm more like the old me - more youthful. Less of an old boring married dude!

[silktricks]

7. After 10 years I had become her rock, her best friend, a father and a good husband. BUT I was no longer her lover, I was someone she no longer thought of as attractive in a passionate way. I had not changed much physically but in her head I guess I was just too nice. To much a member of the family. I hope that makes sense.

 

Actually, I think this makes a lot of sense. You don't really want to f*ck your brother... nor do you want to seem "nasty" to someone who is such a "nice" guy. For some reason it can make you feel to afraid that in the morning your husband will no longer have respect for you... . It took my hubby a long time to convince me that I wouldn't get in trouble the next day for getting a little on the wild side...

 

James, is there any possibility that after you've had sex that you are then more satisfied and somewhat less "in tune" with your wife's emotional desires? So that if your wife gives you what you want - sex - she experiences it as taking away from what she wants - emotional bonding?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

James - I will try but I don't want to mislead you by coming across as somesort of educated sex/marriage counselor.

 

The way I wrapped my mind around was loosely like this:

 

1. My libido triggers are different than hers.

2. What are they for her - what makes her think of sex - in a good way?

3. We have been married for 10 years - the dynamics of our relationship had changed/matured.

4. When we were first together - there was tremendous passion - sex was something we both wanted all the time. Typical for early in a relationship.

5. When we got married - we still had the passion - it was now marriage sex but still passionate with quanity and quality.

6. After 10 years we have both seen each other in some very non-sexual/turn-off type situations. Going to the bathroom in front of each other, throwing-up, crying, etc etc.

7. After 10 years I had become her rock, her best friend, a father and a good husband. BUT I was no longer her lover, I was someone she no longer thought of as attractive in a passionate way. I had not changed much physically but in her head I guess I was just too nice. To much a member of the family. I hope that makes sense.

 

So I decided I would change some things about ME. This part could be ANYTHING depending on YOU but here's what I did:

 

I stopped whining about sex - definite turn-off for her.

I stopped having "the talks" - they weren't helping - either made her feel bad or we would have a big stupid fight.

 

Started working out - I don't have abs of steel or anything but I'm a lot more active. I think she would love it if I had abs and some more muscle tone - something I'm still working on. I think she likes the masculinity of fitness.

 

Stopped whining to her about my work and made some changes there.

 

I stopped being such a nice-guy. I didn't become a jerk but I stopped being such a nice husband.

 

I know some guys will say that they do whatever they want anyway - and I'm sure that's true for some - but remember this is just me.

 

I did all these nice things thinking - this will put her in the mood! I was totally wrong. Being nice was not turning her on. Sure she appreciated me being nice - but that made me a helpful roommate - not a man she desired to fck.

 

These are not absolutes for me but here's some of the things I know I changed:

 

1. I would not ask her where she wanted to go out to eat - I would decide.

2. I would not ask her what she thought I should wear - don't know how I got into that habit.

3. I become much more involved with disciplining the kids - instead of always being the good guy.

4. If I was sick I would not be such a baby.

5. If there was a family issue to decide on I became less wish-washy.

6. I did chores for ME and the good of the family - not because I thought she might want sex. She is not turned on by a lazy couch potato (who is?)

etc etc etc. - there were other things but I think you will get the gist of it.

 

I guess at heart I know I'm a people-pleaser type personality. My wife loves me and married me as I'm a nice decent guy. But after 10 years I was no longer a guy she was passionate about.

 

I did not tell her about these changes - I just started being a more assertive person. It wasn't over-night but it really has worked.

 

Plus I am a happier person becuse of the changes - even without the change in her libido. So even if it hadn't worked it was a positive thing. My career has even improved.

 

Not to be brag or be too graphic but a story for you - after making some of these changes (about 2 years ago) - we had a situation where she commented on some hot guys ass at a restaurant. Not totally off-base for her but as it was sexual in nature it was a good thing to hear.

 

When we got home I pushed her face down on the bed, ripped of her panties and had my way with her while I told her how she wished the hot guy was here having a 3-some etc etc. It totally rocked and she loved it. She loved me being aggressive with her. She loved me not being jealous of her comment about the other guy - fantasies can be your friend (she said for years she had none!) The whole manliness and my high level of security with our relationship really does it for her.

 

She even told me later she told this story to a couple of her girlfriends - and both were like hell yea they would love it if their husbands would be like that sometimes.

 

We are now going places in our relationship and our sexlife that neither of us knew were possible. It's not perfect - we still have our ups and downs - trust me.

 

But we have gone from lackluster sex 2-3 times a month. To adventurous, passionate sex 1-2 times a week. I'm not going to lie and say we are completely in sync sexually - but we are a lot closer that ever before. She brings things up she would like to try, surprises me with outfits - not because I threatened to leave etc but because her libido came back.

 

It seems to me that maybe women turn off their libido when things get comfortable - and they don't go looking elsewhere (I know some do) - they are just content despite their husbands discontent but they can't change YOU just like you can't change them.

 

Good luck to you.

 

What a story and happy it worked for you. Unfortunately doubt it would work for others. the one thing I agree with is that you are responsible to make yourself happy and with you asserting yourself in other ways at home with your attitude, demeaner and "standing up" for yourself you were in a happier place. May be we need to all do that....

 

Now James you were asked about the 4 months and whether she liked it. At the end of the day, you have not answered that question. Does she have orgasms? Does she suppress them? Does tshe have a past (many boyfriends/sexual encounters? Has she ever told you what she likes?

 

The fact is you started a conversation with her and again it seems to have fizzled out. There were some strides, but again no concrete results.

 

I am nasty, but you state you have a "date" coming up.... I'd cancel it or be indifferent about it.

 

Why make it a big deal or refer to it as a "date".... There is one reason you have a date and it is that it should lead to intimacy. Sorry for being so cold....

[Phateless]

I'm telling you guys - there is nothing that will shock her. Nothing will motivate her. The libido cannot be compared to other things so there are no good analogies.

 

If I am reading his situation correctly - it seems very similar to mine. I bet he has already tried all the things you guys have suggested.

 

She actually suggested he go get it somewhere else - don't you all see - James especially - she doesn't know what is wrong with her. All these things you try on her make her feel worse, less attractive, less sexy, less of a person, less of a wife. Not helping!

 

If she were bald would you keep bringing it up all the time so maybe she would grow hair - of course not. It wouldn't help and she knows she's bald (terrible analogy!)

 

From what I understand the chances are high that either he will leave her or he will just live with this.

 

If he trys to leave - any change in her libido would be temporary at best as she's now motivated by fear and love. But that does not actually fix her libido does it?

 

If he lives with it without changing - then things will stay the same.

 

Or he could try to find out what he could change about himself that would get that passion back.

 

I had fun figuring out what to change - some things I tried were just plain stupid or I hated or even she hated me changing. The things I personally changed may not work for your situation but once you get your mind wrapped around the concept - commit to it and see!

 

Some argue that I am not being true to myself by changing who I am - but I don't look at it like that. I look at like when you are first dating someone - you are on your best behavior. You dress nice, smell nice - pull out all the stops. I am still me - just a new and improved me - or some might say - I'm more like the old me - more youthful. Less of an old boring married dude!

 

You're misunderstanding.

 

The goal is not to coerce her into having sex with him. The goal is to convince her to put some effort into fixing the underlying problems.

 

This isn't about sex. This is about her refusal to solve the problem at hand. There is a glaring problem (she has no interest in sex) and she completely refuses to address it, which is an even bigger problem!

 

Make sense now?

[norajane]

His wife is a victim of sexual abuse/incest. This isn't like letting some air out of a tire or for that matter simply dealing with it in 'therapy'. I've know women who have been in therapy for decades and when they come out of it.... basically it is simply learning how to cope with the reality of what has happened.

 

Except that his wife had plenty of sex and passion for James before. It's only the last 7 years that's it's disappeared, and they've been married for...19 years?

 

And if this was the problem, wouldn't she know it and tell James that was the problem? Instead, she's maybe going to get her hormones checked, and she's maybe wondering if she's just plain ole lost interest in him as a lover.

[carhill]

OK, how do you constructively criticize an incest survivor? Does their history and trauma obviate all personal responsibility and boundaries? Where do you draw the line?

 

I use alcohol to medicate the pain of a father who beat me as a child. Help me. BTW, I'm a man. I have this interesting hormone called testosterone. It makes me want to kill people.

 

(This is hypothetical, but I want you to feel what it's like for a man who goes through the same/similar stuff)

 

I can honestly say, having been married to someone with that in her past, I will never consciously get involved with a similar person again. I see no reason to suffer by proxy for the sins of some azzhole from the past. I believe in personal responsibility.

[norajane]

For incest survivors the triggers for the turn off to sex can be the loss of the chase. For example, a male who believes sex is due him or anticipated (thusly feeding the sexual abuse dynamic). IMO earlier on she may have felt she had some control... and perhaps may have felt this control was lost.

 

When it comes to women... there are always 'hormone' issues. I don't care hold old the woman is. This is something different entirely.

 

Or...7 years ago, she gave birth to their last child. And sex became optional for her after that.

[carhill]

OK, dad stuck his d!ck up my ass.... do I really have to nit pick this SOB detail cr@p to death?

 

I'm sick and tired of people falling on their "I was abused/incested as a child" sword. I've spent my whole life empathizing with that. It sucks. Absolutely. I did lots of kissing and holding without sex. Sex was never expected, ever. Lots of listening for hours on end. Days on end. Weeks on end. Months on end.

 

James loves his wife. Probably more than he should. He's tired. Not physically, but in his soul. I hear it.

 

My mom told me something before her dementia and psychosis got so bad that she didn't recognize me anymore. She told me she never wanted to be a burden to me, to cause me pain and suffering. She knew that she had a problem. She knew she was dying. She cared enough to utter those words. The disease was hers through no fault of her own but she did not want to burden *anyone* with it, because she loved us. That's what I'm not hearing from James' wife. Responsibility. Personal responsibility.

 

You may not like and he may not like it, but she needs to hear it. Right in her face. Ugly. That's how life is. Sorry to give it to you like that. That's what men do, the dirty work.

[NoIDidn't]

I have the utmost respect for JamesM.

 

His wife is a victim of sexual abuse/incest. This isn't like letting some air out of a tire or for that matter simply dealing with it in 'therapy'. I've know women who have been in therapy for decades and when they come out of it.... basically it is simply learning how to cope with the reality of what has happened.

 

Incest isn't a 'mood' or attitude... or hormone. It is mind and heart altering. The number of women who are the victims of incest is staggering. Then add other forms of sexual abuse, rape, etc.. and the numbers escalate.

 

Asking her to change her 'tude' is like suggesting a deflated helium balloon float.

 

She may benefit from hypnotherapy or other sensory based forms of therapy, however sort of 'rewiring' the brain she is stuck with a 'plane of lethal flatness' towards sex because of the distasteful way in which she was introduced to it.

 

JamesM... I take my hat off to you. You are an amazing man.

 

I totally agree.

 

I find that people really don't understand this part of their issue. She may never recover from it in a way that's satisfactory to James with regards to sex.

 

And the fact that the stats basically state that 1 in 4 women will be sexually violated in some way by the age of 18, doesn't bode well for many relationships.

 

Its not uncommon for a survivor to be sexual (like any other person) in the beginning of a relationship. The infatuation outweighs the fear of losing control. Pregnancy and childbirth are usually turning points though. They were for me. I couldn't control how the pregnancy ran its course. I couldn't force my will over my own body during delivery. It was petrifying. There are books for medical professionals on how to deal with sexual abuse survivors.

 

Actually, there are books for loved ones of sexual abuse survivors as well. I agree with whoever said that constantly talking about the sex problem isn't making her feel confident, sexy, and so on. Its making things worse. And that is precisely why she said "get it somewhere else". Not because she meant it. But because she feels backed into a corner.

 

Sounds like therapy and honestly about this while in therapy might help with understanding, but not necessarily with getting more sex.

[mem11363]

L10,

While you can fit any set of logical explanations to her behavior, the truth is that for many, many years sex was fine, and then right after her last child, sex almost stopped. If this pattern of sexual aversion was not so common, I might be inclined to give credence to your assessment. The thing is that this pattern fits the standard so well, it makes me seriously doubt that the abuse is the source.

 

I typically agree with much of what you have to say. The problems I have with your whole line of reasoning is that this literally gives her an infinite set of "get out of jail free" cards and the timing is too convenient.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm here to say that having the crap beaten out of you as a child and being a victim of incest is night and day. While both mess with you one, more specifically, is damaging beyond measure in that it literally takes something away from a person.

 

One's traumas do not obviate them from responsibility. You can demand that the deflated balloon float all you want. It just won't happen because it's out of air. It has been 'recreated' into being something other than what it was 'born to be'.

 

Demanding a crippled person walk is the same as demanding an incest survivor to be psychologically wired to sex in a healthy way. It can become just plain cruel.

 

Is it possible to bring someone around to experiencing a healthy relationship? Yes. However it certainly isn't done through demands. Perhaps it is accomplished through compassion first... then constructive help. Cognitive therapies may help her. Perhaps shifts in how intimacy takes place might. For example, perhaps 'not knowing' that every time there's a kiss it equals sexual intercourse might help. A make out session with passion that ends there... no pressure to finish. Bringing it back to the genuine equality that it was when dating and the relationship was still young. Give her the 'feeling' that it is her choice. And, build her desire. If sexual aversion is about loss of control, then give it back to her. Let her learn about her desire again.

 

It is possible to cultivate it again in an incest survivor... simply not through more abuse.

[NoIDidn't]

OK, dad stuck his d!ck up my ass.... do I really have to nit pick this SOB detail cr@p to death?

 

I'm sick and tired of people falling on their "I was abused/incested as a child" sword. I've spent my whole life empathizing with that. It sucks. Absolutely. I did lots of kissing and holding without sex. Sex was never expected, ever. Lots of listening for hours on end. Days on end. Weeks on end. Months on end.

 

James loves his wife. Probably more than he should. He's tired. Not physically, but in his soul. I hear it.

 

My mom told me something before her dementia and psychosis got so bad that she didn't recognize me anymore. She told me she never wanted to be a burden to me, to cause me pain and suffering. She knew that she had a problem. She knew she was dying. She cared enough to utter those words. The disease was hers through no fault of her own but she did not want to burden *anyone* with it, because she loved us. That's what I'm not hearing from James' wife. Responsibility. Personal responsibility.

 

You may not like and he may not like it, but she needs to hear it. Right in her face. Ugly. That's how life is. Sorry to give it to you like that. That's what men do, the dirty work.

 

Wow. Is this what I have to look forward to in a few years?

 

I don't think you mean to come off as lacking compassion, but this is painful to read.

 

Believe me, the person that managed to survive sexual abuse with some level of sexuality left, doesn't like it either. If anything, we wish we were normal. We wish we could be like everyone else and see sex only as pleasurable. But we can't control the triggers. And sometimes it just becomes too much work to keep having to respond to them, so we start to avoid situations that cause them.

 

Its not fair to either partner. But it really comes off like blaming the abused partner for their responses to their abuse.

 

What's really interesting to me is the fact that it can go the other way, and the partner still complains. I know of survivors that basically survive by having sex all the time. And their partners complain that they are only wanted for the sex. You can't win.

 

I can't decide if Life is funny or cruel.

[mem11363]

TDP - Sorry for my uncivil tone this morning, you did not deserve that.

 

It does seem that what TNhusband did worked for him.

 

I am genuinely curious as to why you believe that his strategy is not generally applicable? (yes I know this is an unfair question - because his approach and mine are so similar I might as well have asked...)

 

Not trying to be repetitive, just trying to understand.

 

 

 

 

What a story and happy it worked for you. Unfortunately doubt it would work for others. the one thing I agree with is that you are responsible to make yourself happy and with you asserting yourself in other ways at home with your attitude, demeaner and "standing up" for yourself you were in a happier place. May be we need to all do that....

 

Now James you were asked about the 4 months and whether she liked it. At the end of the day, you have not answered that question. Does she have orgasms? Does she suppress them? Does tshe have a past (many boyfriends/sexual encounters? Has she ever told you what she likes?

 

The fact is you started a conversation with her and again it seems to have fizzled out. There were some strides, but again no concrete results.

 

I am nasty, but you state you have a "date" coming up.... I'd cancel it or be indifferent about it.

 

Why make it a big deal or refer to it as a "date".... There is one reason you have a date and it is that it should lead to intimacy. Sorry for being so cold....

[NoIDidn't]

I am noticing that posters are saying that the sex stopped after the birth of the last child.

 

Read post 320 to this thread.

 

Its a common occurence for abuse survivors to be turned off of sex following the pregnancy and childbirth.

[norajane]

Its not uncommon for a survivor to be sexual (like any other person) in the beginning of a relationship. The infatuation outweighs the fear of losing control. Pregnancy and childbirth are usually turning points though. They were for me. I couldn't control how the pregnancy ran its course. I couldn't force my will over my own body during delivery. It was petrifying. There are books for medical professionals on how to deal with sexual abuse survivors.

 

If that were the trigger, shouldn't it have happened after their first child? Yet their sex life was fine then, and she went on to have 3 more, I believe. Then the sex dried up.

[Trialbyfire]

If that were the trigger, shouldn't it have happened after their first child? Yet their sex life was fine then, and she went on to have 3 more, I believe. Then the sex dried up.

Are you certain of this? I thought she always had a much lower libido than James but I could be wrong.

[Mr. Lucky]

When it comes to women... there are always 'hormone' issues. I don't care hold old the woman is.

Interesting how for some women this is almost always true and for other women this is rarely true. I prefer the latter ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[carhill]

My bet is she made a conscious unilateral decision that 4 children is enough (I would support that) and that, since no more procreation was necessary, sex was no longer necessary.

 

My friend, who is an incest survivor, told me she disconnected so completely after their last child that she could plan the next day's chores, children's clothes for school and grocery list while her husband was having sex with her. Her body was there as a receptacle, but her mind and emotions were on another plane. Complete disassociation. I now believe, knowing her much better today, that she was disassciated throughout their M and it was likely a significant causal factor of their marital issues and ultimate divorce. One of the most difficult processes I went through was, after MC, realizing I could never be more than a friend to her, simply because I could not deal with that (the fallout of incest) again, with someone I've loved for half my life and would've married if that would've been our path.

 

IMO, the posters here who are exasperated are not dismissive of the gravity of the situation, but rather focused on approaching it in a mature and adult manner, as all adults should. The OP presumes he is suffering because of his wife's history, suffering he says he accepts willingly. That's his part. His wife's part is, knowing his burden, stepping up to the plate and accepting her responsibility for the suffering imposed upon him. That suffering has nothing to do with her history. It is her actions of today which impose it. She is emotionally aware and cognitive. She knows she has a problem and it's causing him suffering.

 

IME, recognizing my own problems (witness my emotional outburst above) and admitting they were causing my stbx suffering was the first step in the MC proccess. Looking in that mirror. It was ugly and painful to look in there. Nasty. That's where a skilled professional can help. I hope James and his wife can get that help to end his suffering and for her to find some peace in her own soul.

[SadandConfusedWA]

I just don't buy that incest is now causing problems where James said that they have had normal sex life for the first few years of their relationship. He even stated that on their honeymoon they had "too much sex". It just doesn't add up.

 

What people do not seem to get is that it is very possible to be an incest victim AND lose sexual attraction for your partner like normal people do without those two things being related.

 

If anything for an incest victim, sex at the beginning of the relationship is very hard and they experience problems until they gain trust in their partner. Then sex usually improves once they feel safe and protected.

 

Pattern that his wife and James experience is not consistent with this.

 

Sigh. James is way too understanding for his own good.

[carhill]

If anything for an incest victim, sex at the beginning of the relationship is very hard and they experience problems until they gain trust in their partner. Then sex usually improves once they feel safe and protected.

 

This was my experience with my stbx and also part of why we waited so long (three months) to become sexually active. Unlike women who just want their man, she had to get over a 'hump' emotionally. I didn't have the life experience with such matters to really understand it at the time, nor did I understand the concept of the distance I was sensing. Counseling probably would have served us better at that point than later, when marital issues arose.

[Chrome Barracuda]

I had a feeling that she might have been abused in my posts a while back...

 

I'm sorry james...

 

I'm glad maybe she's gonna work on it. I'm still under the impression that if she doesnt get help that you guys do seperate...

[NoIDidn't]

If that were the trigger, shouldn't it have happened after their first child? Yet their sex life was fine then, and she went on to have 3 more, I believe. Then the sex dried up.

 

They are usually a significant trigger, not the only one.

 

It most likely did rear its head after each of her children for a while, but seems to have become permanent after the last child.

 

I am friends IRL with several women that were sexually abused as children, and this scenario sounds quite common with them too. You only have to have sex one time to get pregnant, so the number of kids is irrelevant.

[NoIDidn't]

My bet is she made a conscious unilateral decision that 4 children is enough (I would support that) and that, since no more procreation was necessary, sex was no longer necessary.

 

My friend, who is an incest survivor, told me she disconnected so completely after their last child that she could plan the next day's chores, children's clothes for school and grocery list while her husband was having sex with her. Her body was there as a receptacle, but her mind and emotions were on another plane. Complete disassociation. I now believe, knowing her much better today, that she was disassciated throughout their M and it was likely a significant causal factor of their marital issues and ultimate divorce. One of the most difficult processes I went through was, after MC, realizing I could never be more than a friend to her, simply because I could not deal with that (the fallout of incest) again, with someone I've loved for half my life and would've married if that would've been our path.

 

IMO, the posters here who are exasperated are not dismissive of the gravity of the situation, but rather focused on approaching it in a mature and adult manner, as all adults should. The OP presumes he is suffering because of his wife's history, suffering he says he accepts willingly. That's his part. His wife's part is, knowing his burden, stepping up to the plate and accepting her responsibility for the suffering imposed upon him. That suffering has nothing to do with her history. It is her actions of today which impose it. She is emotionally aware and cognitive. She knows she has a problem and it's causing him suffering.

 

IME, recognizing my own problems (witness my emotional outburst above) and admitting they were causing my stbx suffering was the first step in the MC proccess. Looking in that mirror. It was ugly and painful to look in there. Nasty. That's where a skilled professional can help. I hope James and his wife can get that help to end his suffering and for her to find some peace in her own soul.

 

I didn't think it was an emotional outburst. I thought it was honest. It was just painful to read.

 

My H used to say that he wasn't going to spend his life making up for someone else's mistakes either. One time, in response, I told him that I was sick of spending the rest of my life making up for someone else's mistake in abusing me to begin with and I never heard him say that again.

 

It is a struggle. And I certainly empathize with those who choose to take a gamble on loving a survivor (of any type). And I not only empathize with you, I agree with you. Its healthy to know our emotional limits. I've spent my life dealing with mentally ill family members, I would NEVER date someone with one of their illnesses. I already know the hardship that I would be in for. So I totally get what you are saying and don't find you to be an insensitive boor for saying so.

 

I think the worst thing an abuse survivor can do is to turn off of sex. When I realized that I was doing it, I fought hard to not do so. I went to IC to deal with residual issues I hadn't faced yet, years ago. It can be beat. We don't have to accept being sexless. The fears can be conquered.

[Trialbyfire]

Sorry for the thread jack James but when I read about all the people who've been abused as children, it makes me want to take a magnum 45 to molesters/abusers.

 

I love children. They don't deserve this.

[giotto]

I still believe that James is seen as a "friend" now and not as a lover anymore. I understand that James doesn't want to "force" her wife to have sex with him by threatening a divorce, but if she agreed to more sex because of that, she might start to enjoy it more and maybe build more of a physical connection with J. I'm seeing this in my marriage. Having sex more often brought us closer. It's also true that I stopped whinging, concentrating more on myself.... I don't buy this masculinity stuff entirely, but there is some truth in it.... having said that, medical causes should be explored and MC is a must...