"If you want sex, then you will have to get it somewhere else."

[tnhusband]

Not sure of your age but those lulls can get more frequent as you get older. As you accurately pointed out, sex and libido aren't the same thing. To me, those reductions become opportunities to make it all about my wife, focusing on and pleasing her. Time to break out the toys and accessories. And I also know that, when she feels the same way, she does the same for me. Quid pro quo ...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I'm 42

 

And i agree with your sentiments exactly.

 

The point of my question is to try to:

 

1. Have people understand how James wife feels - of course her libido issue is full time.

2. Find a solution to James wifes low libido - if someone on here knows how to jumpstart their own libido (especially a woman) then we should let James know so he can share with his wife.

 

I know I can, to a point, understand how she feels - she's just not in the mood. And she does not know how to change that. From my own experience with my body (and of course my wifes prior issues) I don't believe you can jumpstart your own libido. It's just nature being cruel.

 

However I do believe your environment and outside influences not directly in your control can help boost the libido. Hence the concept I have previously outlined.

[giotto]

Here's some perspective on 'temporary':

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t77030/

 

Note the date of the post.....

 

 

 

ah, read that... mmm... not very good... wife is on AD as well and killed her libido... I think... well, I'm too shocked to being able to comment at the moment... I thought my life was complicated...

[KikiW]

Kiki - it was just an analogy - I'm not saying she is a baby or unintelligent - yes she's stuck but she has no way to get out of the mud. IMHO she knows something is wrong but can't quite put her finger on the cause. How can she fix something when she does not know what to fix?

 

Yes, I KNOW it was an analogy. I don't agree with the analogy. She may not know the exact reason for her loss of interest in sex, but I am 100% certain that she knows where to start to find out.

 

I might not know exactly what is causing my lungs to hurt, but I can make guesses... pleuresy? pneumonia? lung cancer? I am smart enough to know where to start to get an answer. GP, hospital, specialists. THEY will be able to diagnose me and recommend the proper treatment. But it's still up to me to get off my @$$ and call them.

 

The way you are framing it, she is completely frozen in place because she can't decide whether it's hormonal, psychological, or Other. Could be one, could be a combination. But she still needs to make appointments and see these people to find out which it is and how she can take care of it.

[norajane]

My wife talked with me tonight. This was the first time we have talked since the call Sunday night. I wasn't really surprised by the talk or what she said. She said how after I talked with her she thought about how much she loved me and how I was her best friend and how she needed me. She couldn't imagine losing me. She passionately kissed me (couldn't do more than kiss due to kids in the other room, and I did not want more TBH, but she wanted to keep kissing) for quite awhile and said we could get back what we had. She wanted to make me happy. She said she realizes how much this does mean to us and wants to get back what we had.

 

Get back what "we" had? Oh? I didn't realize you also had lost what "we" had. I thought you still had passion for her, but she had lost passion for you. She, not "we". I didn't think you needed to get back the passion you had lost, since you hadn't lost any passion for her.

 

Is she making this your problem again, still?

 

You're right James. She spelled it out for you - she's afraid to lose you, so suddenly she's found enough passion to kiss you, to make you happy. She's taken on the mission to make you happy so you don't seriously consider leaving. But that's it. Because she's lost passion for you as a lover. It's not her past abuse. It's not her schedule. It's not hormones. It's that she no longer sees you as a lover. Maybe the fear of losing her best friend will compel her to suddenly "get back" what "we" lost, but that's as far as it goes, for now.

[giotto]

I'm not surprised she's off sex... she's got enough on her plate already...

[JamesM]

I haven't posted opinions or thoughts in this thread, but I have been reading it carefully and only wish to continue sending best thoughts and wishes to James for his difficult situation.

 

Thank you for your kind words. They are appreciated.

 

Hope it continues through the "date"..... Don't be surprised if something however derails the post date festivities:o.....

 

Enjoy the ride, don't obsess over it and frankly if it works you keep initiating at your liking (be it once a week or more) and see her response.

 

Thanks for your support. While I do not plan to keep a sex diary here now , I can say that I did not expect nor want....nor did I get...sex last night. If I had, then I know that the motivation was not the libido. Besides, I knew we would be home later as we were, and then some relaxing time alone is nice...and an early rise for me this morning. No, I can be a little patient.

 

I am not going to initiate it at all unless I see SHE has changed. And by change, I mean that a reason for her libido loss has been discovered. TBF has said it well...if I initiate it, then she is not the one who feels responsible to change. It would be back to what we have been doing lately.

 

I absolutely disagree with this. The impression I honestly get is that James' wife is stuck - she has issues that have halted her desire for intimacy, and she has gotten very comfortable in avoiding dealing with them and putting James off as long as she can because of her desire to keep avoiding them.

 

...she will need to be the one to make the calls and go to the appointments. That is the effort she needs to make if she truly wants the marriage to be happier and more fulfilling.

 

Based on James' comments, she is trying SOMETHING. She is trying to connect more. It's a start.

 

I agree with what you said. The thing in our marriage is that I am the one who takes the time to research problems and offer solutions. Not always but mostly. This means that I am taking the responsibility to make the change. But in this case, I have learned that it is not possible. And frankly, I have no interest anymore. This sounds petty but my feeling now is "If you really love me, then you will fix yourself." I don't know if fix is the correct word, so maybe the word could be she must take responsibility.

 

James - that conversation sounds like progress, but I think she is doing nothing more than stringing you along. My honest opinion is that she won't actually DO anything until she sees you close the door behind you.

 

Actually I have no doubt that she will do something. I also have no doubt that we will be having sex on a regular basis...for awhile. I am sure that she will go to the doctor.

 

I know my wife...she was NOT stringing me along. At that time, she meant every word. Time will tell if it sticks.

 

JamesM, surprise her by turning it around as sex to please her and I think you're on your way to hitting a home run.

 

That is the thing. Since she has no libido, then pleasing her is not what she is usually after. And to me that is what makes sex exciting. If it is all about pleasing me, then inside I feel selfish. That is okay once in awhile, but because she has no hunger for it, then "feeding" her or pleasing her is not considered a home run. To a person who likes sex, this would be a home run.

 

However, not meaning to be too graphic, if she shows that she desires and orgasm, then I will see that pleasing her is important. But without some reason as to that loss being discovered and solved, then I will still question as to why she suddenly has that desire.

 

James has fully put the ball in her court. Before we negate that she will show him the money, let her show him the money or not. She's in the driver's seat. If he makes the least move to take over the driver's seat right now, everything that's transpired in the last couple of weeks of the least bit of progress, will be negated.

 

It's time to be patient, for a short while.

 

TBF, as usual, you have a way of putting my thoughts into words. It is so true. If I go after her and she responds, then inside I also wonder if she really wanted it. At this point I NEED to have her initiate it to build the confidence that she wants sex and wants me sexually.

 

James,

I think you have handled this brilliantly. And I agree that you are right to feel that true progress is happening.

 

good luck

 

Thank you. I hope it is true.

 

 

Here's some perspective on 'temporary':

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t77030/

 

Note the date of the post.....

 

 

ah, read that... mmm... not very good... wife is on AD as well and killed her libido... I think... well, I'm too shocked to being able to comment at the moment... I thought my life was complicated...

 

Carhill, I have reread that thread and the next one following (where my wife became sexual again...or so I thought) a few times. It is relevant to the discussion since this very topic brought me here.

 

Giotto, some of the things that were part of the problem then are no longer the problem. And anti-depressants is one. She does not take anti-depressants. She does not have as much pain as she did then. And our children are (obviously) older.

 

Get back what "we" had? Oh? I didn't realize you also had lost what "we" had. I thought you still had passion for her, but she had lost passion for you. She, not "we". I didn't think you needed to get back the passion you had lost, since you hadn't lost any passion for her.

 

Is she making this your problem again, still?

 

First, as I always remember when reading posts about events that happened, I am phrasing it as I remember. I also did not put in every detail that might change the perspective of how that statement sounds. For instance, she then followed with the fact that she needs to get to the doctor and see if that is the problem or rule that out as the problem. She also is going to switch to a day job (and was in the process shortly before our talk) because that very well may be part of the problem.

 

I do not see that she made this MY problem. While I think it is HER problem, personally, I still think it is still our problem...even thought she needs to work on herself first. We are a couple and a team. One member of the team needs to fix what may be compared to an injury if this team is to be a winner again.

 

You're right James. She spelled it out for you - she's afraid to lose you, so suddenly she's found enough passion to kiss you, to make you happy. She's taken on the mission to make you happy so you don't seriously consider leaving. But that's it. Because she's lost passion for you as a lover. It's not her past abuse. It's not her schedule. It's not hormones. It's that she no longer sees you as a lover. Maybe the fear of losing her best friend will compel her to suddenly "get back" what "we" lost, but that's as far as it goes, for now.

 

As of now, yes, her motivation is her emotional love for me...not her desire for sex. I know that and expect that. If she suddenly had this great sexual lust for met, then I would really wonder as to why she had it now. Her passionate kissing was motivated by an inward love...not a lust for sex. She may have lost sight of me as her lover, but at this point I think she can get it back. If the work schedule change doesn't help or her hormones are the problem, then she has some choices to make.

 

I KNOW that her motivation is not based on a sudden increase in libido. Her kissing did not spark some fire inside. While the "fire" of love was strong, it was not enough to ignite her libido. This of course gives credence to a physical reason. Emotionally, she was all over me. She wanted to want me, but physically, the signs weren't there. (Hopefully I don't need to give details as to how I could tell. )

 

It is possible that in the end we will simply be having sex more often and be no closer to the cause of her loss or lack of libido.

 

BTW, when she was talking about what "we" had, it was about the sex we had. It was not that "we" have lost our passion. She knew and knows it is her problem. She recognizes that I have done everything I know to fix the problem. She said it more than once during the call and the other night...."this is not you, it is me." As for losing me, I think she is more afraid of losing me as her best friend...not that I will divorce her. She is probably right in one sense, because one option is finding other things to do with other people. This will cut into "our" time...and who knows where it may lead. We simply may become two people living separate lives in the same house. This would be harder on her than me.

 

I'm not surprised she's off sex... she's got enough on her plate already...

 

I agree yet must disagree. Again, what were the problems four years ago have changed. Our lives are easier. I have made changes in how I help out or even take over household duties. Besides, it is not simply about her loss of libido, it is also abut her lack of desire to change. What I saw in 2006 was a huge change. Then I mistook it for an increase in libido. I see a similar change, but this time I know it is a desire to improve because she wants to keep us together. This is a worthy goal, but it will not go farther it she is to have LT results.

 

I am optimistic and still a bit pessimistic...hence, I guess I am realistic. Above all, I don't have the same level of care about what happens as I have in the past. I now consider this her problem to fix. While I do not plan to divorce any time, I do know that this lack of sex may produce other results that will cause us to be less of a couple than we are.

 

I no longer have an interest to pursue her sexually. I have been burned too many times. I have no plans to initiate sex. And I don't sit there on pins and needles hoping that maybe tonight she will initiate sex. If she does, then I know that I can be ready in a heartbeat (I guess that would be obvious ). I also know that if I begin initiating it, then she will be quicker to let me take the responsibility again.

 

She knows very well how I feel. I guess in one sense I did change...I changed my attitude. In the past, I would either get angry or "plead" with her to do something or try to woo her into bed. Nothing worked. Now a part of me no longer wants to deal with tis. So, when I conveyed my feelings in our last conversation, I had more of an indifference. Yes, I had some anger, but it was less of a desperate or personal anger. Instead it might be classified as more of an anger as if I were speaking for someone else. I thin this bit of apathy came across to her...hence, she felt me backing off and pursued.

 

As TBF said, the time for patience is now.

 

(That could be a great political slogan. )

[giotto]

I no longer have an interest to pursue her sexually. I have been burned too many times. I have no plans to initiate sex. And I don't sit there on pins and needles hoping that maybe tonight she will initiate sex. If she does, then I know that I can be ready in a heartbeat (I guess that would be obvious ). I also know that if I begin initiating it, then she will be quicker to let me take the responsibility again.

 

 

yeah, I did that... result? No sex whatsoever... if I didn't initiate, we wouldn't have sex, full stop. That was the reality and still is...

[JackJack]

Read an interesting article on co-dependents and sex. Of course most co-dependents usually end up with a partner that is co-dependent as well, not always but generally.

 

I'm not saying this is the case for ALL people and WHY they aren't having sex much with their spouse. Just thought it was interesting because it might apply to some people's situation.

 

Codependents and Sex:

 

Codependents go through cycles in the bedroom. They are caretakers there too. They have sex when they don't want to or withdraw sex to punish their partner. They try to have sex when they are hurt or angry, and refuse to enjoy it. They withdraw emotionally from their partner, feel revulsion toward their partner, and don't want to talk about it. They reduce sex to a technical act, wonder why they don't enjoy it; lose interest; make up reasons to abstain, wish their partner would die, go away, or guess what is wrong with them; they have strong sexual fantasies about others and consider having affairs.

[tnhusband]

Yes, I KNOW it was an analogy. I don't agree with the analogy. She may not know the exact reason for her loss of interest in sex, but I am 100% certain that she knows where to start to find out.

 

I might not know exactly what is causing my lungs to hurt, but I can make guesses... pleuresy? pneumonia? lung cancer? I am smart enough to know where to start to get an answer. GP, hospital, specialists. THEY will be able to diagnose me and recommend the proper treatment. But it's still up to me to get off my @$$ and call them.

 

The way you are framing it, she is completely frozen in place because she can't decide whether it's hormonal, psychological, or Other. Could be one, could be a combination. But she still needs to make appointments and see these people to find out which it is and how she can take care of it.

 

I've agreed all along she should rule out any pure medical problems but according to my research it's probably either not going to be a diagnosable or treatable. I got my wife to go to various doctors, several times to no avail. I'm not saying don't go - I'm saying the odds are against a doctor being the solution. Again based on my experience and research.

 

SHE'S not frozen in place because she can't decide what's wrong. HE'S frozen in place because SHE feels fine.

 

Contrary to your opinion I know for 100% that she does not know where to start. If she did why wouldn't she start? My wife loves me, we get along great but when her libido went away she was clueless.

 

Again there are absolutely millions of women with low libidos - not sure why some folks like yourself react this way - "if I was her I'd do something about it" - do you really think millions of women are purposefully this cold towards their husbands? It's just not that simple - I wish it were.

 

And James - everything you say and agree with on here is the same old stuff you have already tried and had no real success with. Why do you think it's going to work now?

 

Sure I'm "selling" what worked for me - but I have no ulterior motives - I just had a positive experience with it. I feel like I know where you are - I've laid in bed next to my wife with tears in my eyes wondering what's wrong with me, what's wrong with her. What can I do to fix it, what can she do to fix it? I tried pretty much all the things that everyone is suggesting to you on here and I think you have to - with zero affect on her actual Libido.

 

Are you not to the point of wanting to try something outside the box?

 

I know you said you would go get the book I mentioned - I hope you do as it should better explain the concept than I ever could.

[tnhusband]

yeah, I did that... result? No sex whatsoever... if I didn't initiate, we wouldn't have sex, full stop. That was the reality and still is...

 

James I know you must have tried this before - I know I did - it takes the pressure of her and you end up with a happier wife - great - but how do you think this will effect her LIBIDO? And of course you get zero sex.

 

Isn't one of the definitions of insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? I know it drove me crazy for a while!

[EnigmasMuse]

Read an interesting article on co-dependents and sex. Of course most co-dependents usually end up with a partner that is co-dependent as well, not always but generally.

 

I'm not saying this is the case for ALL people and WHY they aren't having sex much with their spouse. Just thought it was interesting because it might apply to some people's situation.

 

Codependents and Sex:

 

Codependents go through cycles in the bedroom. They are caretakers there too. They have sex when they don't want to or withdraw sex to punish their partner. They try to have sex when they are hurt or angry, and refuse to enjoy it. They withdraw emotionally from their partner, feel revulsion toward their partner, and don't want to talk about it. They reduce sex to a technical act, wonder why they don't enjoy it; lose interest; make up reasons to abstain, wish their partner would die, go away, or guess what is wrong with them; they have strong sexual fantasies about others and consider having affairs.

 

I agree. Also codependents are less likely to leave a situation/relationship as well, no matter how unhealthy, until they decide or learn how to break free from that codependent cycle.

[JamesM]

James I know you must have tried this before - I know I did - it takes the pressure of her and you end up with a happier wife - great - but how do you think this will effect her LIBIDO? And of course you get zero sex.

 

Isn't one of the definitions of insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? I know it drove me crazy for a while!

 

Actually, I never tried it, because it is not something that can be tried per se.

 

It is an attitude.

 

My point was....I have lost the interest in pursuing sex from HER because it lead to nothing. I am not changing an attitude because I am expecting results. I simply feel differently than I have.

 

And while I admire you for how your method "worked," in some ways it is not much different than my attitude change if it is as you say. You SAY you changed for yourself and I must change for myself with no expectations of anything. YET you promote this to me as a way to get her to want more sex.

 

Logically it goes like this....

 

1.Change for yourself. Expect no sex.

2. She will want sex because she will see the changes.

3. Therefore, the change is to get more sex.

 

My attitude change is not with the intention of getting more sex. I simply have realized that everything I have done (as you have stated) has accomplished no long term results. So I guess I give up.

 

To some degree, I don't even know if I want sex (that would be inside, I am sure my body would still react differently) unless I realize that she likes sex and is not doing it out of the fear of losing me. If she has sex with me for me yet inside does not like it, then after awhile it will not be fun for either of us and we will be back where we were. I will always wonder if she really loves me. She will always feel that she must do it to keep me. On the other hand, another part of me would be happy with sex even if she has less interest than I because if I feel that she does it out of love for me, then it will still be an expression of her love. I waffle on how I feel about it.

 

She knows how I feel. The control is with her. She needs me emotionally and as a friend. Personally, I think my attitude will be affecting the ability to be a good friend and emotional support knowing that while I am not getting what I need and she is getting what she needs. I know this will affect my time I spend with her.

 

Petty...perhaps. Reality...yes.

 

THEN tnhusband, I will be doing as you suggest....change for myself. And we will simply live together without being a team.

 

Will this happen? I hope not.

 

Words to live by regarding this situation....

 

"It's time to be patient, for a short while." - TrialByFire

[Chrome Barracuda]

...All these questions and no F-ing Solutions!!!!

 

Why cant you make a choice James?! Why be in a sexless marriage with a woman who's scarred for life. But on top of that isnt strong enough to even help herself to change!!!

 

How long are you gonna tolerate it.

 

It's no longer about how much you two will be a team or partnership. but damn sex is a component of a healthy marriage you take that out, the cogs then to fall apart!

 

So how long are you gonna put up with it, and why shouldnt it be your choice. why is the ball in her court. it's always been in her court. You have a say so in the marriage as well!

[tnhusband]

Actually, I never tried it, because it is not something that can be tried per se.

 

It is an attitude.

 

My point was....I have lost the interest in pursuing sex from HER because it lead to nothing. I am not changing an attitude because I am expecting results. I simply feel differently than I have.

 

And while I admire you for how your method "worked," in some ways it is not much different than my attitude change if it is as you say. You SAY you changed for yourself and I must change for myself with no expectations of anything. YET you promote this to me as a way to get her to want more sex.

 

Logically it goes like this....

 

1.Change for yourself. Expect no sex.

2. She will want sex because she will see the changes.

3. Therefore, the change is to get more sex.

 

My attitude change is not with the intention of getting more sex. I simply have realized that everything I have done (as you have stated) has accomplished no long term results. So I guess I give up.

 

To some degree, I don't even know if I want sex (that would be inside, I am sure my body would still react differently) unless I realize that she likes sex and is not doing it out of the fear of losing me. If she has sex with me for me yet inside does not like it, then after awhile it will not be fun for either of us and we will be back where we were. I will always wonder if she really loves me. She will always feel that she must do it to keep me. On the other hand, another part of me would be happy with sex even if she has less interest than I because if I feel that she does it out of love for me, then it will still be an expression of her love. I waffle on how I feel about it.

 

She knows how I feel. The control is with her. She needs me emotionally and as a friend. Personally, I think my attitude will be affecting the ability to be a good friend and emotional support knowing that while I am not getting what I need and she is getting what she needs. I know this will affect my time I spend with her.

 

Petty...perhaps. Reality...yes.

 

THEN tnhusband, I will be doing as you suggest....change for myself. And we will simply live together without being a team.

 

Will this happen? I hope not.

 

Words to live by regarding this situation....

 

"It's time to be patient, for a short while." - TrialByFire

 

 

James I feel your frustrations coming through in your posts. I too would lose interest in my wife sexually from time to time but my desire for her would always come back.

 

Are you saying that by no longer initiating you will be in a sense changing - I guess there is some truth to that but is that the kind of change that might spark her libido? I would think not but you never know.

 

I do agree yet partially diasagree that she has the control. She certainly has the control over whether or not she has SEX with you. But she has no control over her LIBIDO. As I think you have said - you don't really want her to be having sex with you if she's not really in the mood.

 

As for patience - you have been going through this for several years - correct? You have once again had another talk with her. She has agreed to try etc etc etc etc. - I also did this - so many friggin times - I just don't see her LIBIDO increasing because you are now going to be patient with her as NOTHING has actually changed.

 

Of course all of this is as always IMHO..........

[JamesM]

Are you saying that by no longer initiating you will be in a sense changing - I guess there is some truth to that but is that the kind of change that might spark her libido? I would think not but you never know.

 

The point is...I truly am not concerned about sparking her libido. I know that sounds weird after all these posts, but I realize now that I have tried everything. I have done all that I can. But I am going to see if she will take the initiative to look at herself.

 

Will it change anything? That remains to be seen. Three years ago, I had a slightly different talk, and ut got ST results as I have said over and over.

 

She certainly has the control over whether or not she has SEX with you. But she has no control over her LIBIDO. As I think you have said - you don't really want her to be having sex with you if she's not really in the mood.

 

She has the control over looking at what is wrong with her libido. She has said she loves me and it is not me, then at this point, her love should be shown through action...her libido may be low for no known reasons, but she has a brain and is very intelligent. She can get her hormone levels checked out (since she thinks this might be the problem) or she can see what other changes will help. Doing nothing strongly implies that her love is in words only.

 

 

As for patience - you have been going through this for several years - correct? You have once again had another talk with her. She has agreed to try etc etc etc etc. - I also did this - so many friggin times - I just don't see her LIBIDO increasing because you are now going to be patient with her as NOTHING has actually changed.

 

First off, yes, this has been going on for a number of years.

 

Second, this is the only second talk that I have really had that she responded this way. She usually doesn't take me seriously IMO. Something this time indicated to her that it is more than simply talk.

 

And I still cannot get a handle on this...do you want me to change myself to get more sex or don't you? I have made many changes and nothing different happened. Now you have this cryptic way of saying "Change only for yourself and not for more sex, because then you may get more sex." As I said when I change for myself, I will not be wanting sex from her anymore because I will have given up that she cares enough. And honestly at that point (which I don't think I have reached yet), I will be probably not even wanting sex from her or resenting her for suddenly taking an interest in me only because I no longer care about her. I am getting some of this already from her...I back away and let her know how I feel with no expectations, and suddenly she thinks she had better do something. Is this love? That is why I say patience...yet.

 

Of course all of this is as always IMHO..........

 

And I respect that.

[Snowflower]

 

My point was....I have lost the interest in pursuing sex from HER because it lead to nothing. I am not changing an attitude because I am expecting results. I simply feel differently than I have.

 

 

JamesM. I was worried that you would come to this point...you are detaching from your wife. You no longer trust her...if she says she will have sex with you-then you question her motives.

 

I've shared with you via PM my story. I understand how hard this has been for you and continues to be for you. I don't see how this situation will resolve itself without heartbreak for you and your wife. In my mind I see 4 probable outcomes.

 

1. You stay married and continue as you have been. You stay faithful but disconnect and become resentful - this is already happening -I can tell from your posts. Your marriage will still be 'intact' but the love, connection and true meaning behind it will be gone. You marriage will be a facade for bitterness and resentment. Do you really want to live your life like this for the next 20-30 years, James?

 

2. Use an escort to have your 'needs' met. Seems the safest option at this point but I think you will have trouble reconciling your actions to your own moral compass. And it doesn't solve the problem of the lack of intimacy in your marriage.

 

3. You have an affair...but the damage caused by this decision to your already weakened marriage may not be able to be overcome and you, JamesM, run the risk of becoming emotionally attached to your AP because you are checking out of your marriage.

 

4. Divorce...but again, I think you will have great difficulty with this choice because of your moral code and the impact on your children. Divorce is the easiest but the hardest choice at the same time.

 

I can see the handwriting on the wall and you and your wife are going down the same path as my husband and I did. No matter what you decide, your marriage will be damaged/destroyed.

 

The problem is, I can't tell you (and neither can anyone else here apparently) how to avoid the destruction. It's liking watching a trainwreck getting ready to happen and not being able to stop it.

 

I am so sorry. I, for one, wish I could help you more.

[giotto]

after all this insight, I can only say you can either accept it (and get detached and resentful - but not showing it) or you go separate ways. But you won't do that, so you will stay and your love for your wife will slowly vane... that's what happened to me...

[Trialbyfire]

after all this insight, I can only say you can either accept it (and get detached and resentful - but not showing it) or you go separate ways. But you won't do that, so you will stay and your love for your wife will slowly vane... that's what happened to me...

If his love for his wife slowly wanes, whereby she doesn't meet his needs, where's the problem? In doing this, he slowly changes his perception of her as a necessity, to a liability in his life.

 

If James remains true to his beliefs in marriage, including ethics about monogamy, he will then divorce her previous to indulging in an extramarital affair or paid sex.

 

I'm not seeing a down side.

[giotto]

If his love for his wife slowly wanes, whereby she doesn't meet his needs, where's the problem? In doing this, he slowly changes his perception of her as a necessity, to a liability in his life.

 

If James remains true to his beliefs in marriage, including ethics about monogamy, he will then divorce her previous to indulging in an extramarital affair or paid sex.

 

I'm not seeing a down side.

 

he won't divorce her, because of his beliefs and the children. He will just stop loving his wife, bit by bit, until it will be time to go, when the children will flee the nest. Well, maybe... and I thought I was a martyr...

[Trialbyfire]

he won't divorce her, because of his beliefs and the children. He will just stop loving his wife, bit by bit, until it will be time to go, when the children will flee the nest. Well, maybe... and I thought I was a martyr...

At this point, he's unwilling to. Time will tell based on her actions and his perception, if he holds firm with no divorce. In the interim, let's see what happens with him giving her complete control over the situation. My fingers are crossed for James, that she might, against all odds, step up to plate and hit a home run.

[Phateless]

At this point, he's unwilling to. Time will tell based on her actions and his perception, if he holds firm with no divorce. In the interim, let's see what happens with him giving her complete control over the situation. My fingers are crossed for James, that she might, against all odds, step up to plate and hit a home run.

 

At this point he's done nothing but prove to her that she can do whatever she wants and he'll take it. I don't think anything will motivate her except watching him leave.

[Trialbyfire]

At this point he's done nothing but prove to her that she can do whatever she wants and he'll take it. I don't think anything will motivate her except watching him leave.

Do you know this for certain, Phateless? When I look at how long these two have been married, sitting back and being patient for a short while, seems to be the least anyone can do, when a marriage and children are on the line.

 

It's really easy for people to say, get a divorce, when they've either never been married or never had children. As someone who's never had children but experienced marriage and all that you've vowed in a meaningful way, before everything and everyone you hold dear, including God, which is something very important to James, it's not so easy to walk away, especially not knowing that you've done all you can to save the marriage.

 

Edit - I'm not trying to negate your opinion since I've also never had children but all I can do is to provide advice to James, considering his values, actions and beliefs in life.

[Phateless]

Do you know this for certain, Phateless? When I look at how long these two have been married, sitting back and being patient for a short while, seems to be the least anyone can do, when a marriage and children are on the line.

 

It's really easy for people to say, get a divorce, when they've either never been married or never had children. As someone who's never had children but experienced marriage and all that you've vowed in a meaningful way, before everything and everyone you hold dear, including God, which is something very important to James, it's not so easy to walk away, especially not knowing that you've done all you can to save the marriage.

 

Edit - I'm not trying to negate your opinion since I've also never had children but all I can do is to provide advice to James, considering his values, actions and beliefs in life.

 

I agree with you about waiting a little while longer in light of her recent proclamations that she wants it to work. The problem is that this has been going on for years already, and I think she needs to know that there are limits to what she can put him through.

[Vlad]

James my man in the beginning of the thread you asked how would we approached this issue here is my input:

 

Since you sound like a nice guy you are probably a good father too and that might be the only reason you haven’t leave her, cause if there were no kids I’m sure you would have dumped her already right?

 

I have kids myself and will do anything for them, even keep a no-sex marriage, and since you mention everything else is ok in your life with her, then I suggest (for the sake of the kids) to:

 

a) "Purchase" it from a safe place

b) Get a :f***buddy?

 

I will just go ahead and do those 2, it sounds stupid to do it “for the sake of the kids” but you can have those 2 options and never get caught, therefore your kids will still grow up with a mom and dad around and the fact that there is no sex between you and her will not do any harm to the kids, I will do that, I will not leave my kids if I have the option of giving them a Family as it is now.

[Trialbyfire]

I agree with you about waiting a little while longer in light of her recent proclamations that she wants it to work. The problem is that this has been going on for years already, and I think she needs to know that there are limits to what she can put him through.

It's too late for that. James has already chosen his course of action and we have to respect his decision, since this is his life.

 

That's what boundaries are all about and letting things lie, as the two have come to some kind of concensus, therefore, nagging or bringing it up again, without reason to do so, is just putting fuel on fire, particularly if part of or the main issue, is about control of one's life.

 

Maybe and probably I'm allowing my own personal biases to intrude in this thread, and for that James, I apologize. I just hate nagging and being nagged, with no action on my or the other persons part, that warrants a renewal of the discussion. When concensus has been reached, unless there's new information that changes things, let sleeping dogs lie and allow the other person to do or die, since everyone's an adult in this situation, thus is responsible for their own behaviour(s).