"If you want sex, then you will have to get it somewhere else."

[Vlad]

It's too late for that. James has already chosen his course of action and we have to respect his decision, since this is his life.

 

 

 

and what was his chose course of action? just not give a crap about it?

[tommyr]

Let me get this straight:

You are a guy with a normal sexdrive and with strong physical passion for your wife.

Your wife is a busy, tired, 42 year old, mother of 4 with a hectic work schedule, who readily admits to having no thoughts of sex whatsoever.

 

And your plan is to stop initiating sex and just wait for her to approach you ? James? JAMES?? See the problem here?

 

Take it from me (a guy in a formerly sexless, now sexfull marriage w same wife): this plan will FAIL.

 

You really need to keep the focus on intimacy and just GET OVER her missing libido.

 

An analogy: In my 20s I enjoyed reading books, so me and my then-girlfriend/now-wife would regularly goto the library and various bookstores. But now I am so busy doing other things that I almost never stop at the library anymore. My priorities and interests have changed, whereas my wife still reads 10 books per week.

 

I love my wife, and if she were to speak with me about how much she missed our library time, and if she asked me would I please join her for maybe 45 minutes once a week or so, you can bet I would say yes - of course!! Realistically though, I am not the one thinking about books much. But when we do go, I am not gonna drag my feet and complain about it because I usually enjoy the trip even if I don't score any books.

 

Would it be fair of my wife to expect me to be the only person suggesting trips to the library? It is not good enough that I cheerfully join her, she now insists that it be my idea for us to go? This makes no sense at all. The best way for both of us to enjoy books together is if she agrees to take the lead (most of the time) and I agree to cheerfully say yes more times than not.

 

James - talk to her. Ask her if she will commit to regular intimacy with you. Tell her not to worry about her libido - yours is big enough for the both of you.

[Untouchable_Fire]

She has the control over looking at what is wrong with her libido. She has said she loves me and it is not me, then at this point, her love should be shown through action...her libido may be low for no known reasons, but she has a brain and is very intelligent. She can get her hormone levels checked out (since she thinks this might be the problem) or she can see what other changes will help. Doing nothing strongly implies that her love is in words only.

 

I am getting some of this already from her...I back away and let her know how I feel with no expectations, and suddenly she thinks she had better do something. Is this love? That is why I say patience...yet.

 

1st, you and I both know that's a pile of crap! IF she really believed it was her low hormones, and she loved you.... She would have rented a chair at the doctors office until this gets fixed.

 

So, because you know she isn't telling the truth... that means she has an idea what the issue is, but does not want to tell you!

 

Second, no it's not love when you only put out effort to keep the other person around. That's a user.

 

Finally, as I have mentioned before... she probably already has a divorce attourney in mind, and once your kids hit a certain age... she is gone. That my friend, is how women think!

[giotto]

Let me get this straight:

You are a guy with a normal sexdrive and with strong physical passion for your wife.

Your wife is a busy, tired, 42 year old, mother of 4 with a hectic work schedule, who readily admits to having no thoughts of sex whatsoever.

 

And your plan is to stop initiating sex and just wait for her to approach you ? James? JAMES?? See the problem here?

 

Take it from me (a guy in a formerly sexless, now sexfull marriage w same wife): this plan will FAIL.

 

You really need to keep the focus on intimacy and just GET OVER her missing libido.

 

An analogy: In my 20s I enjoyed reading books, so me and my then-girlfriend/now-wife would regularly goto the library and various bookstores. But now I am so busy doing other things that I almost never stop at the library anymore. My priorities and interests have changed, whereas my wife still reads 10 books per week.

 

I love my wife, and if she were to speak with me about how much she missed our library time, and if she asked me would I please join her for maybe 45 minutes once a week or so, you can bet I would say yes - of course!! Realistically though, I am not the one thinking about books much. But when we do go, I am not gonna drag my feet and complain about it because I usually enjoy the trip even if I don't score any books.

 

Would it be fair of my wife to expect me to be the only person suggesting trips to the library? It is not good enough that I cheerfully join her, she now insists that it be my idea for us to go? This makes no sense at all. The best way for both of us to enjoy books together is if she agrees to take the lead (most of the time) and I agree to cheerfully say yes more times than not.

 

James - talk to her. Ask her if she will commit to regular intimacy with you. Tell her not to worry about her libido - yours is big enough for the both of you.

 

and maybe they can have sex in the library?

[giotto]

Unfortunately, it's a no-win situation. James is staying for the kids and because he loves his wife. But if the wife doesn't act on her promise of dealing with the situation, James will grow more and more frustrated and resentful. I did that. And then the point will come when he can't stand it anymore and he will say that he is leaving. The wife will be shocked and will agree to sex. My wife did this. But James will never know whether she is doing it to keep him there or if she is doing it out of love (probably the first). James will hate that. James will not have sex with her wife... you see, I went exactly through this and we are having sex. I know that she is probably doing it to keep me there, but she seems to enjoy it so much when we have sex, that for me it's enough...

[JackJack]

I guess what I had mentioned a few pages back fell on def ears as well. IMO I really think it applies to James' situation.

[JamesM]

Snow, I thank you for all of your help, and will respond to you separately.

 

First, yesterday was a bit of a frustrating and depressing day. Life seemed more hopeless than it was. Today is better.

 

It is amazing what a fresh outlook and a realignment of perspectives can do.

 

JamesM. I was worried that you would come to this point...you are detaching from your wife. You no longer trust her...if she says she will have sex with you-then you question her motives.

 

Most likely I will be easily persuaded. While I think I may be skeptical, I think in time this will change. What will be in the back of my mind is...will this last? And that only will change with time.

 

In my mind I see 4 probable outcomes.

 

1. You stay married and continue as you have been. Do you really want to live your life like this for the next 20-30 years, James?

 

No. But I have not reached the point that this is the most likely outcome. If the sex dwindles completely, then this is it. This does seem to be a depressing option but based on how I have not let it go over the past few years, I doubt I will simply sit back and build up resentment.

 

2. Use an escort to have your 'needs' met. Seems the safest option at this point but I think you will have trouble reconciling your actions to your own moral compass. And it doesn't solve the problem of the lack of intimacy in your marriage.

 

It is a more probable outcome than the others below, but it does have its problems, too. "Honey, we need to budget a massage for me every month." But I am sure I will be told that where there is a will, there is a way.

 

If the lack of intimacy is defined by a lack of sex, that is correct. If it is defined by a closeness between us, then it may actually help that. If sex is somehow taken out of the picture, then we both may be happier. If I don't feel as if I am locked into marriage only for sex, then perhaps this will actually prevent the resentment buildup.

 

Keep in mind that I am talking "out loud" right now. I am not saying that it is THE solution.

 

3. You have an affair...but the damage caused by this decision to your already weakened marriage may not be able to be overcome and you, JamesM, run the risk of becoming emotionally attached to your AP because you are checking out of your marriage.

 

Honestly, this ranks right up there with divorce as an option. I have seen through PMS with you and others how the pain of an affair can ruin a relationship and friendship. Again just talking....I know my wife would understand getting SEX somewhere (not saying she would approve), but I know that an affair which involves emotions and friendship, would be a complete betrayal to her. She considers me her best friend...as I consider her mine. For me to share everything with another woman would betray that.

 

The only way I would be in an affair is by accident. In other words, it would only happen step by step and not because I actually seek out one. I know I could, and have prevented myself many times from ever getting into a situation that could lead to it. My usual subconscious remarks about my wife at the beginning of a conversation with a woman tends to kill a moment like that. I don't intend to make such comments, but it seems that my brain overrules me.

 

4. Divorce...but again, I think you will have great difficulty with this choice because of your moral code and the impact on your children. Divorce is the easiest but the hardest choice at the same time.

 

I would consider this the most difficult choice of all for so many reasons. You listed some very big ones. Another is that she is my best friend. She is the one I like to share everything with. If I have an evening free, then I either want to be out alone or with her. Unless that friendship dies, this is not an option.

 

I can see the handwriting on the wall and you and your wife are going down the same path as my husband and I did. No matter what you decide, your marriage will be damaged/destroyed.

 

No, I disagree. I know my hopelessness yesterday conveyed this to be the probable outcome, but I think I am nowhere near ready to throw in the towel. And an affair as mentioned is not an option to me, and honestly, even now, I will prevent one from happening. BUT...I am not stupid. I could be in a situation that is very tempting. However, I have been there in the past, and some automatic response tends to break the moment.

 

The problem is, I can't tell you (and neither can anyone else here apparently) how to avoid the destruction. It's liking watching a trainwreck getting ready to happen and not being able to stop it.

 

I am so sorry. I, for one, wish I could help you more.

 

I agree....as TBF says many times....it is up to me in so many ways. One thing I can say...until a train wreck happens, then it doesn't have to happen.

 

As for helping me, you in many ways more than most, have been a huge help to me. Your story has been a great reminder of what could happen. I also have an email friend of about four years. Her husband cheated on her because of not enough sex (which I question as they were still having it once a week, I think). She forgave him and they are doing well from what I can tell. The pain she has endured and the friendship I have is a constant reminder and deterrent to me.

[JamesM]

If his love for his wife slowly wanes, whereby she doesn't meet his needs, where's the problem? In doing this, he slowly changes his perception of her as a necessity, to a liability in his life.

 

I agree. If I reach a point that divorce is the only option, then so be it. Why should I grab for that now when I have no interest in ending the best thing overall that has happened to me?

 

What is the rush?

 

he won't divorce her, because of his beliefs and the children. He will just stop loving his wife, bit by bit, until it will be time to go, when the children will flee the nest. Well, maybe... and I thought I was a martyr...

 

And so be it. Then I either continue as you are doing with some different option for sex, or I then decide for a divorce. However, one big difference between us IMO. While you have sex, you do not love your wife...or so you say. And you say that she does not love you.

 

In my situation, I love her more than I could ever express. That love is more of a driving force for this thread and the others than simply frustration. If I were simply frustrated for sex and did not have the love for my wife, then I would not bother spending so much time typing this all out for others to critique and for myself to analyze.

 

Honestly, if I was in a situation where I had plenty of sex but I did not live with my best friend, then I would feel as much more of a martyr than you think I am .

 

Sex with someone you do not love is a worse option than sex with someone whom you pay IMO. Maybe I have that wrong. While love is the driving force behind the need for sex with my wife, I would have a hard time having it with her if I knew that she had no love for me yet still had sex with me.

 

THEN an affair would seem an option.

 

My fingers are crossed for James, that she might, against all odds, step up to plate and hit a home run.

 

Thank you. We have "known" each other for a few years now, and I have great respect for your opinions. In this thread, you have been an extreme help. Your advice has helped keep me grounded.

 

At this point he's done nothing but prove to her that she can do whatever she wants and he'll take it. I don't think anything will motivate her except watching him leave.

 

Partially true. Remember, I have really only had one other talk like this one. The results were temporary, but there were results.

 

And yes, I know that if I leave, then she will be motivated. But it will not be by love. It will be out of a need to hold her family together. Our oldest son once said (as part of a conversation) that she doesn't have divorce "in her." I agree.

 

When I look at how long these two have been married, sitting back and being patient for a short while, seems to be the least anyone can do, when a marriage and children are on the line.

 

Thank you. I agree. While I am getting older, I am not old. And as I get older, in some things (personal relationships for one) I learn that the rush of youth tends to get fewer positive results than a little patience and understanding.

 

If I love my children as I say I do, then showing patience for them would be an action that agrees with my words. Yesterday I posted a thread about the Phillies fan whose daughter threw his souvenir ball back. His response was such a message to me. It was a response that few would have. Most would show anger first and not concern for her feelings first.

 

It told me that my feelings are important, but perhaps I should also sit back and think abut what we really have overall and what our children have. Then a little patience seems the easiest route.

 

It's really easy for people to say, get a divorce, when they've either never been married or never had children. As someone who's never had children but experienced marriage and all that you've vowed in a meaningful way, before everything and everyone you hold dear, including God, which is something very important to James, it's not so easy to walk away, especially not knowing that you've done all you can to save the marriage.

 

This statement here is something that anyone (and I mean anyone) who has never been in a good LT marriage can understand. I read so often that divorce is the best option to show her who is in control, and I read that staying is bad for me. Yet as you say, this love we have cannot simply be let go for the act of sex. Sex is important and I don't minimize it, but it is by far not the only good thing in marriage.

 

The bolded statement says it all. Until I know I have done everything, I could never leave. Period.

 

The problem is that this has been going on for years already, and I think she needs to know that there are limits to what she can put him through.

 

She knows the limits. She knows or rather fears, that I will simply get sex elsewhere without telling her. And oddly enough, it does bother that it hurts me...even if she feels helpless to change her inner feelings about sex.

 

It has been going on for no more than probably five years to may be seven (if we think it gradually came on). Before that we had 12 great years. And in these past five years, it has not been a drought with no sex.

 

It is entirely possible that the next twelve years will be great. That will make these five to seven years simply a bad memory that we ill laugh about.

 

cause if there were no kids I’m sure you would have dumped her already right?

 

I have kids myself and will do anything for them, even keep a no-sex marriage, and since you mention everything else is ok in your life with her, then I suggest (for the sake of the kids) to:

 

a) "Purchase" it from a safe place

b) Get a :f***buddy?

 

 

Honestly, I think you understand. You are one of the few who have experienced a family.

 

Would I have dumped her if there were no kids? Highly possible IF we did not have the friendship that we do.

 

Your options have been considered. The F-Buddy idea is not an option because I am guessing that it would end up being an affair. The other option (paid sex) is better, but still inside I would be wondering..."Now I could have bought a nice (fill in the blank) for that past hour."

 

"For the sake of the kids..." That statement alone has carried me along over these past few months.

 

James has already chosen his course of action and we have to respect his decision, since this is his life.

 

Thank you. I hope that it leas to success and not more heartbreak.

 

and what was his chose course of action? just not give a crap about it?

 

No, just not give a crap about it, and hope it gets better. Actually, remember...we did have a talk, and the wife said she would find the problem and "give us back what we had..." and that means, that she wants us to have the sexual compatibility that we have. While her motivation at this point seems only to be love for me (or so it seems), her hope I am guessing, as is mine) is that an answer will lead her to a motivation of actual lust for sex with me.

 

Let me get this straight:

You are a guy with a normal sexdrive and with strong physical passion for your wife.

 

And your plan is to stop initiating sex and just wait for her to approach you ? James? JAMES?? See the problem here?

 

James - talk to her. Ask her if she will commit to regular intimacy with you. Tell her not to worry about her libido - yours is big enough for the both of you.

 

Go back a few pages and see that I did talk to her Sunday night. And then see a few pages back that Tuesday night she responded with a talk. She wants to get her libido back, too, per her response.

 

NOW I will wait and see if she follows through. That is the key to my waiting... her saying she will change. If I now initiate sex, then I again take control without giving her the responsibility. TBF said it well a few posts back how it relates to her past etc.

 

1st, you and I both know that's a pile of crap!

 

So, because you know she isn't telling the truth... that means she has an idea what the issue is, but does not want to tell you!

 

Finally, as I have mentioned before... she probably already has a divorce attourney in mind, and once your kids hit a certain age... she is gone. That my friend, is how women think!

 

Actually, you THINK it is crap, and I KNOW it is NOT crap. I know she is telling me the truth....that is she plans on getting her libido back, and I know that this is hard for her to do. Does she know the issue? Since I know here a little better than you, I can say that she does not. However, I do think it is possible that she has denied what IS the truth. Is it a physical reason? Until this is ruled out, then I can only say we will see.

 

No, she does not have an attorney lined up. It is hard to tell such a young guy as you who has never been in a LT marriage (and could be my son ) how a partner truly gets to understand the person he or she lives with IF you have been best friends. That is not to say that there are secrets, but if divorce were in her mind, then she could not treat me as her best friend. If she planned on divorce, then I guarantee that she would not say that she will try to get her libido back.

 

Someday for your sake, I hope you DO have such a relationship, and before you say it, no I don't hope that you are in a sexless marriage. What I do hope is that you realize that marriage is about much more than self.

 

I guess what I had mentioned a few pages back fell on def ears as well. IMO I really think it applies to James' situation.

 

I saw that and did not quite understand how it applied. Perhaps you could give an explanation? Your posts usually are a help, so I am guess that an explanation would be helpful here, too.

[JackJack]

I agree. If I reach a point that divorce is the only option, then so be it. Why should I grab for that now when I have no interest in ending the best thing overall that has happened to me?

 

What is the rush?

 

 

 

And so be it. Then I either continue as you are doing with some different option for sex, or I then decide for a divorce. However, one big difference between us IMO. While you have sex, you do not love your wife...or so you say. And you say that she does not love you.

 

In my situation, I love her more than I could ever express. That love is more of a driving force for this thread and the others than simply frustration. If I were simply frustrated for sex and did not have the love for my wife, then I would not bother spending so much time typing this all out for others to critique and for myself to analyze.

 

Honestly, if I was in a situation where I had plenty of sex but I did not live with my best friend, then I would feel as much more of a martyr than you think I am .

 

Sex with someone you do not love is a worse option than sex with someone whom you pay IMO. Maybe I have that wrong. While love is the driving force behind the need for sex with my wife, I would have a hard time having it with her if I knew that she had no love for me yet still had sex with me.

 

THEN an affair would seem an option.

 

 

 

Thank you. We have "known" each other for a few years now, and I have great respect for your opinions. In this thread, you have been an extreme help. Your advice has helped keep me grounded.

 

 

 

Partially true. Remember, I have really only had one other talk like this one. The results were temporary, but there were results.

 

And yes, I know that if I leave, then she will be motivated. But it will not be by love. It will be out of a need to hold her family together. Our oldest son once said (as part of a conversation) that she doesn't have divorce "in her." I agree.

 

 

 

Thank you. I agree. While I am getting older, I am not old. And as I get older, in some things (personal relationships for one) I learn that the rush of youth tends to get fewer positive results than a little patience and understanding.

 

If I love my children as I say I do, then showing patience for them would be an action that agrees with my words. Yesterday I posted a thread about the Phillies fan whose daughter threw his souvenir ball back. His response was such a message to me. It was a response that few would have. Most would show anger first and not concern for her feelings first.

 

It told me that my feelings are important, but perhaps I should also sit back and think abut what we really have overall and what our children have. Then a little patience seems the easiest route.

 

 

 

This statement here is something that anyone (and I mean anyone) who has never been in a good LT marriage can understand. I read so often that divorce is the best option to show her who is in control, and I read that staying is bad for me. Yet as you say, this love we have cannot simply be let go for the act of sex. Sex is important and I don't minimize it, but it is by far not the only good thing in marriage.

 

The bolded statement says it all. Until I know I have done everything, I could never leave. Period.

 

 

 

She knows the limits. She knows or rather fears, that I will simply get sex elsewhere without telling her. And oddly enough, it does bother that it hurts me...even if she feels helpless to change her inner feelings about sex.

 

It has been going on for no more than probably five years to may be seven (if we think it gradually came on). Before that we had 12 great years. And in these past five years, it has not been a drought with no sex.

 

It is entirely possible that the next twelve years will be great. That will make these five to seven years simply a bad memory that we ill laugh about.

 

 

 

Honestly, I think you understand. You are one of the few who have experienced a family.

 

Would I have dumped her if there were no kids? Highly possible IF we did not have the friendship that we do.

 

Your options have been considered. The F-Buddy idea is not an option because I am guessing that it would end up being an affair. The other option (paid sex) is better, but still inside I would be wondering..."Now I could have bought a nice (fill in the blank) for that past hour."

 

"For the sake of the kids..." That statement alone has carried me along over these past few months.

 

 

 

Thank you. I hope that it leas to success and not more heartbreak.

 

 

 

No, just not give a crap about it, and hope it gets better. Actually, remember...we did have a talk, and the wife said she would find the problem and "give us back what we had..." and that means, that she wants us to have the sexual compatibility that we have. While her motivation at this point seems only to be love for me (or so it seems), her hope I am guessing, as is mine) is that an answer will lead her to a motivation of actual lust for sex with me.

 

 

 

Go back a few pages and see that I did talk to her Sunday night. And then see a few pages back that Tuesday night she responded with a talk. She wants to get her libido back, too, per her response.

 

NOW I will wait and see if she follows through. That is the key to my waiting... her saying she will change. If I now initiate sex, then I again take control without giving her the responsibility. TBF said it well a few posts back how it relates to her past etc.

 

 

 

Actually, you THINK it is crap, and I KNOW it is NOT crap. I know she is telling me the truth....that is she plans on getting her libido back, and I know that this is hard for her to do. Does she know the issue? Since I know here a little better than you, I can say that she does not. However, I do think it is possible that she has denied what IS the truth. Is it a physical reason? Until this is ruled out, then I can only say we will see.

 

No, she does not have an attorney lined up. It is hard to tell such a young guy as you who has never been in a LT marriage (and could be my son ) how a partner truly gets to understand the person he or she lives with IF you have been best friends. That is not to say that there are secrets, but if divorce were in her mind, then she could not treat me as her best friend. If she planned on divorce, then I guarantee that she would not say that she will try to get her libido back.

 

Someday for your sake, I hope you DO have such a relationship, and before you say it, no I don't hope that you are in a sexless marriage. What I do hope is that you realize that marriage is about much more than self.

 

 

 

I saw that and did not quite understand how it applied. Perhaps you could give an explanation? Your posts usually are a help, so I am guess that an explanation would be helpful here, too.

 

The only thing I know is to google "what is codependency", its not just about the sex part of it. I only mentioned that due to the lack of sex. There is a whole lot of info on codependency, and possibly can shed some light on why people do what they do, how they might feel why they feel the way the do, etc.

[giotto]

 

Sex with someone you do not love is a worse option than sex with someone whom you pay IMO. Maybe I have that wrong. While love is the driving force behind the need for sex with my wife, I would have a hard time having it with her if I knew that she had no love for me yet still had sex with me.

 

 

Just a little clarification. Although the love for each other has probably waned (I can't say I love my wife - she has put me through too much suffering), we still do care about each other a lot, so sex is a nice complement to our relationship. I wish we were still madly in love, but we have to accept reality and make the best of it...thank you for taking the time to answer...

[giotto]

Do you know this for certain, Phateless? When I look at how long these two have been married, sitting back and being patient for a short while, seems to be the least anyone can do, when a marriage and children are on the line.

 

It's really easy for people to say, get a divorce, when they've either never been married or never had children. As someone who's never had children but experienced marriage and all that you've vowed in a meaningful way, before everything and everyone you hold dear, including God, which is something very important to James, it's not so easy to walk away, especially not knowing that you've done all you can to save the marriage.

 

Edit - I'm not trying to negate your opinion since I've also never had children but all I can do is to provide advice to James, considering his values, actions and beliefs in life.

 

and that's the exact reason why we decided to compromise and stay together...

[Snowflower]

 

As for helping me, you in many ways more than most, have been a huge help to me. Your story has been a great reminder of what could happen. I also have an email friend of about four years. Her husband cheated on her because of not enough sex (which I question as they were still having it once a week, I think). She forgave him and they are doing well from what I can tell. The pain she has endured and the friendship I have is a constant reminder and deterrent to me.

 

 

I'm glad that I have been able to help you (and your wife indirectly). I hope my story, as painful as it was, will help you as you make this decision about what to do. It gives me some comfort that at least the lessons I learned so painfully will help someone else-you and your wife-avoid the same pain of losing your marriage-no matter how that happens. I truly hope you avoid this and somehow build a relationship that works really well for both of you.

 

James, you do sound more positive today and I'm glad that you are remaining hopeful that things will change for the better. The trainwreck has been stopped for now!

 

Just to clarify, I know you don't see sex as the only way to achieve intimacy in your marriage...but it does remain a very important way for spouses to connect in a marriage. I learned this lesson almost too late in my marriage.

 

I'm glad you see that your wife is your best friend--I think many spouses don't realize or underestimate the importance of this type of friendship as one part of the marital relationship. I know my husband underestimated the friendship between us--it is truly one of the ties that bind.

[Trialbyfire]

Good luck James! I sincerely hope that this works out. If it doesn't, you haven't given anything up and stand in the same place. Sounds like a hedged bet to me!

[tnhusband]

The point is...I truly am not concerned about sparking her libido. I know that sounds weird after all these posts, but I realize now that I have tried everything. I have done all that I can. But I am going to see if she will take the initiative to look at herself.

 

Will it change anything? That remains to be seen. Three years ago, I had a slightly different talk, and ut got ST results as I have said over and over.

 

 

 

She has the control over looking at what is wrong with her libido. She has said she loves me and it is not me, then at this point, her love should be shown through action...her libido may be low for no known reasons, but she has a brain and is very intelligent. She can get her hormone levels checked out (since she thinks this might be the problem) or she can see what other changes will help. Doing nothing strongly implies that her love is in words only.

 

 

 

 

First off, yes, this has been going on for a number of years.

 

Second, this is the only second talk that I have really had that she responded this way. She usually doesn't take me seriously IMO. Something this time indicated to her that it is more than simply talk.

 

And I still cannot get a handle on this...do you want me to change myself to get more sex or don't you? I have made many changes and nothing different happened. Now you have this cryptic way of saying "Change only for yourself and not for more sex, because then you may get more sex." As I said when I change for myself, I will not be wanting sex from her anymore because I will have given up that she cares enough. And honestly at that point (which I don't think I have reached yet), I will be probably not even wanting sex from her or resenting her for suddenly taking an interest in me only because I no longer care about her. I am getting some of this already from her...I back away and let her know how I feel with no expectations, and suddenly she thinks she had better do something. Is this love? That is why I say patience...yet.

 

 

 

And I respect that.

 

 

James - I will try to respond to your statements/questions:

 

1. You are not concerned about her Libido - I don't follow you. Isn't that ultimately what is at issue here?

 

2. You say you have tried everything - you know where I stand on that! You have just tried all the same old stuff.

 

3. You say she has control over her libido - I think you are wrong. Maybe some people do but she sounds like so many other women - she does not have control.

 

4. Only the 2nd talk? We must be different on that issue - I must have had "The Talk" with my wife 3-4 times a year for several years. I'm wondering if I'm misunderstanding you.

 

5. I struggle to explain what I mean by "change" as it's going to be different for everyone. But the key is it is about changing you. Not her. Maybe if I knew you better i could give you some ideas. These are purely off the top of my head but I'm just trying to see if I can get you to understand

 

Go on separate vacations - take the kids camping without her.

Get a different hair style - radical appearance change! tattoo!

Join a club - motorcycle, bowling league, political, social etc

Sports - karate, basketball league etc

Do something new together - dance classes, cooking classes etc

Do something daring - sky diving, flying lessons, rock climbing etc

Quit your current job and get one that really makes you happy

Tell her once a week you are going out with the guys - be it football, bar, strip club, hooters....

Change a behavior - whether it be a habit you have you know she dislikes or one you know you dislike. Or something that would make her happy or you happy. Chores, grooming, etc.

Definitely stop doing any type of pouting, whining, pressuring for sex - big turn-offs.

 

Obviously some of these are more drastic than others but only you would have an inkling of what would make you happy.

 

And to clarify how I think it should work - no you are not doing this for sex. You are doing this for you. And you shouldn't change your behavior towards her about sex - the cold shoulder, pouting, ignoring methods just don't work. If you bring up having sex once a week - keep doing that.

 

I know you want her to want you for just being you. But you have got to do something to ignite her libido.

 

Now once it's ignited - it becomes a different issue. For me and my wife it opened up the sex communication again - and better than when we were younger. We are both less inhibited - so sometimes its more adventurous now. But when it's not and it's fairly vanilla sex - neither of us question it anymore as we know maybe the next time will be more stimulating.

 

Plus I think now my wife is in her mid 30's she has naturally matured sexually. She's more confident, uninhibited. But I had to get her going first - we were in a horrible rut. I think you know what I mean - she didn't want to talk about sex - let alone change things.

 

Damn - if we could find an easy way to increase the libido we would be rich!

 

I've always said the first drug maker to start selling a "pill" for the libido - I'm buying as much stock in that company as I can!

[blair08]

James it sounds to me like maybe you're pretty happy with the way things are really. I mean you stated you've tried EVERYTHING, you seem to understand that you can't change her, you do NOT plan on leaving, and divorce isn't an option, and that for the most part (other than the sex) things are great between you both. So, I guess there is no real issue after all. I wish you the best.

[JamesM]

James, you do sound more positive today and I'm glad that you are remaining hopeful that things will change for the better. The trainwreck has been stopped for now!

 

 

I'm glad you see that your wife is your best friend--I think many spouses don't realize or underestimate the importance of this type of friendship as one part of the marital relationship. I know my husband underestimated the friendship between us--it is truly one of the ties that bind.

 

The train wreck HAS stopped...for now. Attitude is great for me, but it still changes nothing about her. However, it does give me a better focus on the big picture.

 

If my wife was not such a good friend, then again, this would not be such a long thread.

 

Good luck James! I sincerely hope that this works out. If it doesn't, you haven't given anything up and stand in the same place. Sounds like a hedged bet to me!

 

Thank you, and I agree.

[JamesM]

James it sounds to me like maybe you're pretty happy with the way things are really. I mean you stated you've tried EVERYTHING, you seem to understand that you can't change her, you do NOT plan on leaving, and divorce isn't an option, and that for the most part (other than the sex) things are great between you both. So, I guess there is no real issue after all. I wish you the best.

 

If I said I was happy with the way things are, then I misspoke. I simply realize that some patience is in order...for now.

 

As for trying everything, I THINK I have tried everything. What I need now is for her to begin trying everything.

 

There is still a BIG issue. No matter my attitude today...it still stands. I guess my positivity stems from her saying she will try to bring back her drive. The question is...will she before it is too late? And as for when that is, even I don't set a date on it. I think I will just know. As of now, I think change will occur before it is too late.

 

"Yes, we can" or rather "Yes, SHE can."

[blair08]

If I said I was happy with the way things are, then I misspoke. I simply realize that some patience is in order...for now.

 

As for trying everything, I THINK I have tried everything. What I need now is for her to begin trying everything.

 

There is still a BIG issue. No matter my attitude today...it still stands. I guess my positivity stems from her saying she will try to bring back her drive. The question is...will she before it is too late? And as for when that is, even I don't set a date on it. I think I will just know. As of now, I think change will occur before it is too late.

 

"Yes, we can" or rather "Yes, SHE can."

 

 

Yes, you're right you do have a positive attitude and that is a good thing.

 

Its also good that you understand and realize that once you take a step back, stop worrying about when, how, if, she will change, and you go about your business and take the main focus off of her, then hopefully she will come around. Its time to detach.

 

Detaching doesn't mean from the person, it doesn't mean you don't love them, it means you detach from whatever it is they are doing/not doing, that might be causing frustration or conflict. You go about your business, and no longer put all your time, energy, effort into the other person and trying to figure out why things are the way they are. Its about taking care of yourself. No, I don't mean you go looking elsewhere either. I also do not mean for you to walk around with an "I don't care attitude" either, I just mean its time to focus on yourself and let her deal with herself and whatever is going on with her. If she ever does change, to me it will be because she feels she has something to lose. (YOU)! Right now I do not think she feels she has anything to lose. So the cycle continues.

[JamesM]

Tnhusband, thank you for responding.

 

1. You are not concerned about her Libido - I don't follow you. Isn't that ultimately what is at issue here?

 

Let me rephrase. I am still concerned, but I no longer am ambitiously looking for a solution. I guess I should have said that I don't care enough anymore to do anything about her. If change is to occur, then she needs to discover a solution and i mplement it.

 

2. You say you have tried everything - you know where I stand on that! You have just tried all the same old stuff.

 

Actually, not true. When I first started researching a low libido, one of the first books I purchased was I'm Not in the Mood by Judith Reichman.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Im-Not-in-the-Mood/Judith-Reichman/e/9780688172251

 

In it she listed a bunch of reasons why a woman (or anyone I guess) has a low libido. So, I began by taking each item and determining how big of a factor it could be. Some items were discussed with my wife. Others were simply researched by me.

 

In the process, I discovered a change in her medicine that helped her thyroid (thanks to someone here, I believe), this actually helped her get off ADs. I also came up with a couple of other solutions that helped her but not our sex life. I looked into emotional issue, relationship issues, and past abuse issues. We discussed them and even related to them to sex. She did not know I was doing this until at least six months into it. This was right after the thyroid med change. It also "sparked" her interest i n sex for four months. Along the way, my research helped me discover that she has food allergies causing nausea and headaches. (This was more recent). There were other changes in MY life as well to see if a change would occur.

 

I have no doubt that I have not uncovered every possible solution, but as of now, I have realized that what I do isn't enough.

 

Rarely have I ever tried the same thing after ruling it out as a possible cause for her low libido.

 

3. You say she has control over her libido - I think you are wrong. Maybe some people do but she sounds like so many other women - she does not have control.

 

This one is up for debate. I cannot say if I disagree with you or not. What I can say is that only she has control over finding out what is wrong. If it is physical and nothing can be done, then she needs to do that. As has been said, is her love strong enough to take the initiative to find a solution?

 

4. Only the 2nd talk? We must be different on that issue - I must have had "The Talk" with my wife 3-4 times a year for several years. I'm wondering if I'm misunderstanding you.

 

Only twice have I sat down and sat down with as much impact as I did the other night. Only these two did I really feel that it is up to her and if nothing occurs, then I am going a different route. Any other time it was discussed, either I did not push the issue, or she was able to evade it. My attitude and tone was IMO pleading, begging, anger without clout, or whining. And any of those talks either were a side mention or one that ended with anger by her. Only these two talks do I consider having an impact on our lives. I think it was mainly how I approached these two. My attitude was one of resignation and resolution. At the end of these two talks, I felt that I left it with her completely. Any other talks were me leaving with the responsibility and problem. This second one still remains to be seen if it causes any changes.

 

Does that makes more sense?

 

5. I struggle to explain what I mean by "change" as it's going to be different for everyone. But the key is it is about changing you. Not her. Maybe if I knew you better i could give you some ideas.

 

Thank you. Can I take each idea and give a response? Please know that I understand that you are just giving ideas, and you know how each may totally be inappropriate for me. However, some of them gave me a chuckle.

 

Go on separate vacations - take the kids camping without her.

 

We would all be lost. I always say in our family (and it is true)...I bring the discipline and she brings the fun on our vacation.

 

Get a different hair style - radical appearance change! tattoo!

 

Trust me...I would love to get a different hairstyle....but I don't have enough hair to change. A tattoo would not only be radical but I think all of my friends would band together and put me in a psych ward.

 

Join a club - motorcycle, bowling league, political, social etc

 

IMO (serious comment) joining a club might actually be detrimental to my marriage. Since I am more vulnerable to affairs, spending time away may actually get me interested in another woman. Now I don't think I am THAT vulnerable, but I am cautious.

 

As for the motorcycle club....have I ever mentioned my one time on a motorcycle and the accident I had? Thankfully it was not worse.

 

Sports - karate, basketball league etc

 

This would be good. One thing I did do a couple of years ago (due to my research into ME) was join a health club. I now work out four times a week.

 

Do something new together - dance classes, cooking classes etc

 

Don't you DARE mention this to my wife! While it would get us more time together and get me learning how to cook (probably not dance), I highly doubt it would increase her libido.

 

Do something daring - sky diving, flying lessons, rock climbing etc

 

This would be good....if I wanted to overcome one of my few phobias. I tend to not like heights.

 

Quit your current job and get one that really makes you happy

 

Actually, I did this almost seven years ago. Changing from this one to another would be a step down in happiness.

 

Tell her once a week you are going out with the guys - be it football, bar, strip club, hooters....

 

Okay, this would be a radical change. i am not the type that hangs out with jocks. I don't drink.

 

As for Hooters, we have been to one together. And a strip club....yipes, I thin some would consider this very dangerous at this point. However, what it probably would do is send ME home with an increased libido. I don't think it would increase hers.

 

Change a behavior - whether it be a habit you have you know she dislikes or one you know you dislike. Or something that would make her happy or you happy. Chores, grooming, etc.

 

But the only problem with this is...either I change it for me or I change it expecting more sex. And as I said yesterday, if I change things about me for me, then my goal will not be for the betterment of my marriage.

 

If I change it for her and get no "reward" of sex, then I am afraid this would only increase my frustration.

 

Definitely stop doing any type of pouting, whining, pressuring for sex - big turn-offs.

 

Agree 100%. And that is what I did differently in this talk. Why? Because my attitude changed. As of now, my attitude is positive that she will change. If she doesn't, then I have no plans to go back to the drawing board for more solutions. Any new solutions will be about me and my libido.

 

Obviously some of these are more drastic than others but only you would have an inkling of what would make you happy.

 

One you did not mention is to start getting massages. That might relieve some of my frustrations.

 

And to clarify how I think it should work - no you are not doing this for sex. You are doing this for you.

 

When I do something I set goals as to what I should achieve. If I start doing this to change me, it is not enough. There must be some reward at the end. While I am not completely happy with ME, I am happy with most of my life. Getting out to some club adds responsibilities I don't need. Going to classes during my busy week does nothing for me. Changing my styles of clothing, learning to like beer and bars....none of these are appealing. And your response probably is (as is mine)...find something that would make you happier. I reiterate...my life is not unhappy. Except that sex thing.

 

And I say again kindly, this change that you did on yourself has not been proven at all to be correlated with her interest in sex. If it was, then you would be telling me to change myself, because it has been proven to spark a new interest from wives. And again, if I changed some things to make me happier, then two assumptions are made: I am needing some changes to make me happier, and/or I am needing some changes to make her love me more...or be more sexually attracted to me.

 

And you shouldn't change your behavior towards her about sex - the cold shoulder, pouting, ignoring methods just don't work. If you bring up having sex once a week - keep doing that.

 

At this point, SHE needs to decide how SHE will handle our sex life. I honestly do not think she has ever felt that if she does nothing that I won't follow up with some more searching for solutions. Maybe if she actually realizes that doing nothing by her will simply get her less of a friendship and marriage from me. Perhaps me pulling away from her is the answer. The problem of course with that is..I may not be able to get myself back.

 

I know you want her to want you for just being you. But you have got to do something to ignite her libido.

 

You still have me confused. "Change for me not to get sex. You have got to do something to ignite her. She has no control over her libido. You cannot change her." See how confusing this is?

 

Fact is...my suggestion to myself is simply this...

 

"You have done all that you can. You have made changes to yourself, how you parent, how you treat her, and how you dress....all to no avail. You have made changes that have impacted her life. You hear over and over from coworkers what a wonderful guy you are. You hear from HER how she brags about you at work. And you hear from her how she thinks you are handsome. You hear how she thinks it is her, not you. Then my advice is....leave it with her to decide if you are worthy enough to find a solution for a better sex life. Again, the ball is in her court."

 

The question of course is...am I right in giving myself that advice.

 

Making changes to me without knowing what may be affecting her opinion of me or her physical attraction to me is like replacing every part of the car when it will not start.

 

Plus I think now my wife is in her mid 30's she has naturally matured sexually. She's more confident, uninhibited. But I had to get her going first - we were in a horrible rut. I think you know what I mean - she didn't want to talk about sex - let alone change things.

 

When my wife was in her mid 30's, I can say looking back, she was very sexual...especially in comparison to now. Sex outdoors, driving on the highway, talking dirty...and on and on we go. That has disappeared. I hope for your sake that the end of your wife's 30s don't bring what happened to me. My sexless marriage really began when my wife was around 38 to 40 yrs of age.

 

if we could find an easy way to increase the libido we would be rich!

 

I think I would simply accept being happy.

[Vlad]

 

Honestly, I think you understand. You are one of the few who have experienced a family.

 

Would I have dumped her if there were no kids? Highly possible IF we did not have the friendship that we do.

 

Your options have been considered. The F-Buddy idea is not an option because I am guessing that it would end up being an affair. The other option (paid sex) is better, but still inside I would be wondering..."Now I could have bought a nice (fill in the blank) for that past hour."

 

"For the sake of the kids..." That statement alone has carried me along over these past few months.

 

 

Well then stay with her James, give those kids a normal happy life with a mom and dad around and just try to get sex somewhere else until you both can get her libido back.

 

I don’t know if that can happen and how could it happen, I think is easier to go and have sex with a complete stranger and never get caught than trying to get your wife interested in sex again.

 

As long as your relationship with her won’t affect the upbringing of your kids, hang in there man and find a nice hot chick that wants to f*** your brains out.

[Phateless]

Don't children learn what a relationship is from watching their parents? I just think the kids will be able to tell that you're not happy.

[blair08]

You are lying to yourself if you think the kids won't be able to tell that you aren't happy.

 

The best thing for the children is for their parents to be happy. They learn what a relationship is from watching their parents. This situation will not teach them anything positive.

 

 

I agree with this. I have seen people say, the kids wont know. As long as you put on a happy face and don't fight or argue in front of them its going to be ok. And while that might be wonderful you don't argue infront of them, I still say they know when their parents aren't happy. Kids pick up on many things. Their parents are their role models. Just because your kids may not tell you they know or "act" like it doesn't bother them, doesn't mean it don't. If Parents can put on an act for their kids to make them think all is well, then what makes you think the kids can't put on an act to make their parents think they don't know.

 

Question for you James. Just hypothetical of course.

 

What would you do if one day, after your kid(s) were grown and out of the house, etc, came to you and/or wife and said they knew how unhappy you were. They knew you stayed pretty much for them, and that now they weren't sure how a healthy relationship was supposed to be, and because you stayed they now resented you both? And would have rathered you both divorced and been happy apart than not happy together?

 

The reason I ask this, is, I have seen this very thing happen. It happened within my family. I'm not saying it WILL happen to you, but I am saying that it COULD.

[ladydesigner]

JamesM I have read bits and pieces of this thread because I am so late on reading this, but there was one point that really stuck out for me and that was where you had mentioned her childhood abuse.

 

I have these same issues with my husband. I finally realized I believe he shares some of the physical qualities of my abuser (I was molested as a child) and while in the beginning I never noticed it, I was too caught up in the emotions of falling in love. When we got married became comfortable, that is when my sex drive took a dive. My husband also did some awful things that helped contribute to that and he had an affair, probably due to us not having frequent enough sex and for him which was supposed to be like every other night. Eventually i had my own affair and my sex drive was back but not for my H.

 

Since my A ending the sex with H has improved slightly, but not like it was before we got married and not like it was during my A.

 

I hate that my sex drive is like this, especially for myself and I blame a majority on it for having been abused. I feel like a damaged person.

 

Maybe one day we will both find the answer.

[Phateless]

I agree with this. I have seen people say, the kids wont know. As long as you put on a happy face and don't fight or argue in front of them its going to be ok. And while that might be wonderful you don't argue infront of them, I still say they know when their parents aren't happy. Kids pick up on many things. Their parents are their role models. Just because your kids may not tell you they know or "act" like it doesn't bother them, doesn't mean it don't. If Parents can put on an act for their kids to make them think all is well, then what makes you think the kids can't put on an act to make their parents think they don't know.

 

Question for you James. Just hypothetical of course.

 

What would you do if one day, after your kid(s) were grown and out of the house, etc, came to you and/or wife and said they knew how unhappy you were. They knew you stayed pretty much for them, and that now they weren't sure how a healthy relationship was supposed to be, and because you stayed they now resented you both? And would have rathered you both divorced and been happy apart than not happy together?

 

The reason I ask this, is, I have seen this very thing happen. It happened within my family. I'm not saying it WILL happen to you, but I am saying that it COULD.

 

Yup. My parents fought a lot when I was a kid but they kept it mostly behind closed doors. They shielded me from a lot of things so my basic impression was that I didn't know WTF was going on most of the time.

 

James - do you want your children's relationships to mirror that of you and your wife? Do you want them to grow up attempting to DUPLICATE the relationship you have with your wife? I doubt it...

[Vlad]

They guy just mention over100 times that other than the sex thing he has a perfectly nice relationship with his wife.

 

There are always things to work out in a marriage, he has one and he and even his wife is willing to do something about it, what? you want him to go ahead a get a divorce?

 

He is not even fighting behind closed doors with her, he is not an unhappy guy he just wants to improve his almost none existing sex life with his wife, he loves her, she is his best friend, he rather be with her and his kids than hang out in bars and parties, the guy is perfectly fine with his family just need to fix that problem and everything else will be fine.

 

His kids will be more than proud of his mom and dad for trying really hard to solve this issue, that is if they ever find out about it cause they might not need to know about it al all.