"If you want sex, then you will have to get it somewhere else."

[giotto]

Sometimes, I wonder if it comes down to a self-destruction thing.

 

I see it as self-preservation/defense... I have observed the same "mechanism" in my wife... mainly, let's sweep it under the carpet and pretend it doesn't exist... but maybe I'm overanalysing as well...

[EnigmaXOXO]

I read your interesting post and I agree if two people want to stay in a marriage with no physical contact, who are we to judge, right? As long as they love eachother and are happy.

 

No physical contact (???)

 

Perhaps I’ve misinterpreted something along the way, but I’ve not jumped to the conclusion or read anything (yet) that suggests either one of them have surrendered themselves to a life of celibacy.

 

Since the initial tiff that started the thread, they seem to have come together in agreement that their relationship (aside from the marriage) was still worth enough to the BOTH of them to give it one more try.

 

Have I missed something while I was away?

[angie2443]

Toying with someone's feelings for years on end, is no less than emotional abuse, as blunt as it may read.

 

His feelings are not bieng toyed with. If she doesn't want sex, she doesn't want sex. If James doesn't want to remain in this relationship, he can get a divorce. No one is holding a gun to his head and forcing him to stay in this relationship.

[angie2443]

Is the wife still bieng affected by fibromyalgia and her other physical problems?

[tnhusband]

James - a couple of thoughts this Monday morning.

 

You and others seem entreched with the idea that if she loved you she would at least try to do something about it. You really need to ask yourself do you really think this women is that mean? I know you don't think she's mean. She's not trying to fix herself because she can't.

 

I'm not defending her I just think your concept that she should now solve the problem has been tried by millions with little success.

 

I would also say that it's not so much sex you want as it is the emotional connection you get from having great sex with the women you love. Based on this I would have to say this completely throws out you having sex with another women - an affair would be dangerous as you may become emotionally attached to another women. I know how that sexual connection can make you feel.

 

And paying for it probably won't give you what you want. Without that emotional connection isn't that basically masterbation?

 

My list of ideas about "change" were completely off the top of my head and I know some were pretty funny but there has to be thousands of things that would better apply to you and your life. I knew none of those ideas would probably apply to you I was trying to help you get your head wrapped around the general concept.

 

Divorce - not an option for you - understood

Affair - would not solve your problem - unless you have an affair with your wife!

Pay For it - would not solve your problem - unless you pay your wife!

 

So your options are:

 

1. Leave things as they are and live with it.

2. Change you and see what happens.

[Phateless]

And that is the hardest part of this all....does she not care about me enough to do something? While she is sad and it nags at her (per her), can she not at least love ME enough to try? Am I being selfish?

 

As you said, you are from the opposite gender and have an idea of what I mean. I do not call it emotional abuse per se, but yet it is certainly a disrespect of my feelings.

 

 

 

I agree, giotto. It is not a plan. She is not intentionally being selfish. It comes down to her simply not having an interest in sex, so she puts in on the back burner and denies the issue. This is how she survived as a child through denial, and rather than facing the issue, she pretends it is not an issue.

 

Sometimes, I wonder if it comes down to a self-destruction thing. Inside, she knows this will lead to a bad marriage, but she feels that:

 

1. She feels that she doesn't deserve a happy marriage. And she figures this will simply cause a breakup of her marriage. Then she will be telling herself that she deserved it and will blame herself.

 

2. She doesn't intentionally mean to do so, but in a sense she is seeing if I love her for more than "just sex." She sees this as just sex because it was used as just sex when she was a child. It has been tainted as a tool for an expression of love. So, if I want her for just sex and not because I love her, then so be it. I must not love her. My words and not hers. Perhaps if she could finally see it as an expression of love (in her heart not mind), then she would see what she is missing.

 

But giotto is right, at this stage, I think it would take a miracle.

 

 

But perhaps, I am simply over analyzing.

 

I think you are dead on. So what are you going to DO? Not about her, but about yourself. You should set a date for YOURSELF to make a decision. It seems clear that she's chosen self-deprecation over action.

[KikiW]

She's not trying to fix herself because she can't.

 

Is it so outrageous to expect a wife to take some initiative to pick up a bleeping phone and make a couple of calls to various professionals who have experience in dealing with an absent sex drive? Her fingers broken? Cat got her tongue? Must James DO EVERYTHING? Can she not put in the MINIMAL AMOUNT OF EFFORT to try and resolve the issue?

 

You are bludgeoning him with your "deal with it or change yourself" message. I believe he said he's tried some of what you have suggested in the past and it was met with little change, and what change there was was only temporary.

 

But hey, maybe I am wrong. Maybe James will need to drop 10 pounds, get a new wardrobe, adopt college slang, get some ink done and get himself a fancy new sports car. Maybe THEN his wife will magically get all hot and bothered for him and they will have awesome sex 4 times a week for the rest of their lives.

[Trialbyfire]

You know your wife better than I do but I've also been through a marriage that ended due to cheating. Once trust is lost in a marriage from infidelity, it's rare that the trust is fully regained.

 

Sure, people stay together and try to work it out but most often, the marriage implodes due to a lack of trust. I've noticed that most of the marriages that recovered on LS, which are few and far between, were due to emotional v. physical affairs.

[Mr. Lucky]

This is true and not true. While I walked into the marriage knowing her past and her many issues, I also walked in knowing that she had gone through counseling. And when we were first married, she showed a great interest in sex. Yet she probably did not have as much of a passion for SEX as for me all of the time. At least that is me looking back.

 

It is not true, because I never bargained for a nearly sexless marriage based on a refusal of sex. If it was the result of a physical ailment or disability, then I could understand and not feel rejected.

I was thinking in the present tense, not when you were first wed. Perhaps I should have said "reaffirmed his committment" as staying in the M is but one of the choices you have.

 

Also, as the parent of a special needs child whose disability manifests itself in many subtle emotional and behavioral ways, not all ailments are visible to the naked eye or easily explained. Your W is what she is based on history, nature, brain chemistry and disposition and I'm not sure she could change even if she wanted to. So it all seems to come back to you and the options you feel you have...

 

Mr. Lucky

[OldEurope]

Again, James doesn't need his wife's mandate or permission to separate or divorce. If he wanted, he could retain an attorney and file paperwork tomorrow. He stays in the marriage because he feels, sex included, that the positives outweigh the negatives. Given the array of options he has, hard to make a case that he's being exploited...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

But he is being exploited. So much so, that she knows that she could get away with saying something as crude as she did, knowing that his reaction would be hurt and confusion, but not anger and leaving.

 

She knows that he is going to stick around because of the various things they have together, including kids and great friendship. She also "knows" that he won't, as a principle, cheat.

 

Meanwhile, she gets all the benefits of the marriage, the security, the roof over her head, the thousand-dollar shopping sprees and does not have to participate in the sexual side of marriage. This is right at the point where many many women blow a good thing, and don't see it until the malakas (hey Marlena!) hits the fan...

 

It is this side that, to my mind, is the whole central idea of the male-female dynamic. Good grief, it's this bloody lazy "roomate" mentality that kills passion, marriage, fun.

 

And that is the side that James is pining for, and will soon become very very angry about.

 

James "selfishness"--i.e. the desire to be treated like a man by his wife, in the full, joyous sexual sense of being a man--is right on the mark and how he should feel.

 

OE

[tnhusband]

Is it so outrageous to expect a wife to take some initiative to pick up a bleeping phone and make a couple of calls to various professionals who have experience in dealing with an absent sex drive? Her fingers broken? Cat got her tongue? Must James DO EVERYTHING? Can she not put in the MINIMAL AMOUNT OF EFFORT to try and resolve the issue?

 

You are bludgeoning him with your "deal with it or change yourself" message. I believe he said he's tried some of what you have suggested in the past and it was met with little change, and what change there was was only temporary.

 

But hey, maybe I am wrong. Maybe James will need to drop 10 pounds, get a new wardrobe, adopt college slang, get some ink done and get himself a fancy new sports car. Maybe THEN his wife will magically get all hot and bothered for him and they will have awesome sex 4 times a week for the rest of their lives.

 

Nope it's not outragous at all - I had the same reaction to my wife - for gods sakes woman don't you care about me! And I have said previously James wife should rule out any potential medical issues. But once ruled out (most of the time it's not going to be medically diagnoseable or curable) then what?

 

FYI my wife's Doctor and gyno both told my wife there was nothing wrong with her and it was pretty common to lose your libido after being married and having kids etc. The doctor did tell her to have more sex as that might make her want it more. That was about it.

 

I totally agree with you SHE should fix it - but we are not talking about what is right. We are talking about what James can do and what will work. And after several years of the some old results and issues I don't see how he thinks the status quo is going to change.

 

For years I tried to get that switch to go off in my wifes brain that she was losing me , making me unhappy, frustrated - all the emotions you have in these situations.

 

I'm just saying it's come to that point where he has really got to stop trying to get her to change (he has said as much) - it just doesn't generally work - if it hasn't by now........he can only change himself.

 

As for bludgeoning him with my idea that he should change - I guess I get frustrated with all the back and forth about what he should do, etc etc etc. - he's tried it all and it hasn't worked. I thought he would be receptive to a new idea - especially since I believe it worked for me.

 

I understand your sarcasm when it comes to getting a fancy new sports car and his wife will want him again. The concept is not really that simple which is why I encouraged him to read the book. But then again maybe it is that simple - I do know this - the libido is a complicated and fragile thing.

[marlena]

This is right at the point where many many women blow a good thing, and don't see it until the malakas (hey Marlena!) hits the fan...

 

 

:laugh: Nice to see you again!

 

James "selfishness"--i.e. the desire to be treated like a man by his wife, in the full, joyous sexual sense of being a man--is right on the mark and how he should feel.

 

 

Absolutely! If he didn't feel this way, it would be unnatural!

[marlena]

The doctor did tell her to have more sex as that might make her want it more.

 

This is an irrefutable fact. The more you have sex, the more you want it. James's wife is so conditioned to not having had sex for so long that she has forgotten what it's like. This could be part of the problem.

[JamesM]

This is an irrefutable fact. The more you have sex, the more you want it. James's wife is so conditioned to not having had sex for so long that she has forgotten what it's like. This could be part of the problem.

 

I can see how THAT conversation will go.....

 

"But if you have it more, than your libido WILL increase! I promise. " If I weren't married to her, then she would call it a pretty weak pickup line.

 

But seriously, I know that this is true for me, and if memory serves me correctly, then she DOES become more interested if she does it more. Unfortunately, I am not the one to convince her of this.

[marlena]

Unfortunately, I am not the one to convince her of this.

 

This is not something that anyone can be convinced of unfortunately. Since divorce is out of the question for you, then, I would take on a mistress just like she told you to and tell her. No lies, no deception. And I wouldn't feel a shred of guilt. None whatsoever. You can't be expected to live the life of a monk simply because she wants to live the life of a nun.

 

I agree with OE that she told you this knowing full well that you won't. That's how sure she is of you. Which makes things even worse. Maybe you should surprise her. That way next time she'll be more careful with her words and their effect on others.

 

Personally, I think she should do the honourable thing and set YOU free. Divorce you and let you reclaim your manhood. She can go on living the life of celibacy that she desires.

[silktricks]

 

I am sure that his statement wasn't meant to hurt, but it did. I am not going to be anything less than her best friend. In the past, she was very much sexually turned on by her best friend. This does not mean that I don't need to take some initiation in changing some things out of an improvement of myself. But to become less of a friend to get more sex would be defeating the purpose of what we both seek in a marriage along with sex.

 

Those who know me will find it odd that I quote an atheist, but this statement says it so well.

 

It is not a lack of love, but a lack of friendship that makes unhappy marriages. Friedrich Nietzsche

 

 

Change for me is not bad and could be very good. But if I do it with any expectation for more than personal satisfaction...even if I pretend I have no further expectations, then it is no longer really for me.

 

Ah, James, I'm sorry. I surely didn't want to hurt you. What I meant (and said poorly) was that it seems that you've become only her best friend and no longer her lover (in her eyes), and that sometimes it's difficult to get nasty with someone we want to think well of us.... anyway, that's probably not come out any better....

 

I think we're talking at cross purposes anyway. What I meant definitely was not to become less of a friend to your wife - just to possibly add a little jazz. I also didn't mean that you'd be making changes for anything other than to improve something about yourself - and have some fun. Any sex would just be an added bonus

[Trialbyfire]

I'm going to inject one more thing into this thread and then wander off.

 

James, be true to yourself. It doesn't matter what I or anyone else says. What matters is that any course of action will need to be lived for the rest of your life, by you and potentially, by ripple effect, others. Choose wisely, what course of action(s) you can live with, for now and always, whereby you can still respect yourself, as the man you are.

[Kenyth]

There are a few things that all modern societies and religions recognize as a breaking of marriage vows worthy of annullment or divorce. The refusal to give your partner children, or the refusal to be intimate, and intimate only with them.

 

He is well within his rights and commonly recognized morals to seperate from her. Frankly though, it could be much worse than twice a month. Some busy, healthy realationships with kids, workng parents, and adult education have less activity than that.

 

I don't think it's as much about the frequency of the physical intimacy as it is about the quality of the loving intimacy between them.

[amerikajin]

Leave. This chick is obviously wacked in the head and does not care enough about your feelings to seek therapy.

 

What is wrong with you that you're even thinking of staying with her?!

 

This "chick" is his wife, whom he loves. It's the not having sex part that's causing him conflict.

[tommyr]

1. Continue as is

2. Get sex elsewhere as she actually said.

3. Divorce. (Actually for me...again...this is not an option).

 

1 is not a longterm option and you say 3 is not an option.

So that leaves just 2, and my sense is you are now at the jumping off point.

 

Before you act on this, why not just try the only thing that worked for me?

Tell her your marriage is at risk - and not due to you cheating on her, using drugs, gambling, or any kind of abuse. Instead your marriage is in trouble because your sexual needs are ignored. Ask her if she will commit to sex once per week.

 

It's decision time: what will you do? Say nothing to her and quietly go visit that massage parlor you have been driving slowly past for the past month? Seems like that was the answer you have been looking for this entire thread.

 

Or instead will you Man-Up and walk directly into a conflict situation with total confidence that whatever the outcome, you will at least be free of frustration, limbo, powerlessness. That is no way to live.

[amerikajin]

I can see how THAT conversation will go.....

 

"But if you have it more, than your libido WILL increase! I promise. " If I weren't married to her, then she would call it a pretty weak pickup line.

 

But seriously, I know that this is true for me, and if memory serves me correctly, then she DOES become more interested if she does it more. Unfortunately, I am not the one to convince her of this.

 

This might sound odd and perhaps rude, but, could you just pleasure yourself privately and enjoy the bond that you have with her otherwise?

 

I know that sex is an important part of a relationship but it's almost always a source of frustration for one person or the other at one point or another. When I started dating my partner I had a major libido that had been reawakened and I wanted it more than she did. I think my libido is naturally higher than hers but I just dealt with it on my own. It doesn't really bother me that she doesn't want a lot of sex. I wouldn't give her up for anything.

 

The bond that you have with someone is the most important thing, James. You don't want to have to separate to figure out just how true that really is.

[JamesM]

Is it so outrageous to expect a wife to take some initiative to pick up a bleeping phone and make a couple of calls to various professionals who have experience in dealing with an absent sex drive?

 

Maybe James will need to drop 10 pounds, get a new wardrobe, adopt college slang, get some ink done and get himself a fancy new sports car. Maybe THEN his wife will magically get all hot and bothered for him and they will have awesome sex 4 times a week for the rest of their lives.

 

If I thought any of that would help, then I would do it. As for her not taking the initiative, that not only angers me and puzzles me, but it shows me how much love she has for me. If she did not KNOW how much it meant to me, then I could be more understanding. Since she knows and does not seem to care to find out the cause, then it hurts.

 

Your W is what she is based on history, nature, brain chemistry and disposition and I'm not sure she could change even if she wanted to. So it all seems to come back to you and the options you feel you have...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

This is what scares me. Does she really want to, or is it simply she cannot? And by cannot, it may be an emotional block inside of her. Or is it that she won't due to a lack of love as has been suggested?

 

And yes, me and my options.

 

But he is being exploited. So much so, that she knows that she could get away with saying something as crude as she did, knowing that his reaction would be hurt and confusion, but not anger and leaving.

 

Good grief, it's this bloody lazy "roomate" mentality that kills passion, marriage, fun.

 

And that is the side that James is pining for, and will soon become very very angry about.

 

James "selfishness"--i.e. the desire to be treated like a man by his wife, in the full, joyous sexual sense of being a man--is right on the mark and how he should feel.

 

OE

 

You are right. The passion and the fun and the sex that makes us come alive....THAT is what I want. In fact, IMO that is what WE need.

 

My fear is that as I get older, I will become even more resentful for being stuck in a marriage that no longer meets MY needs. I go back and forth with the question...am I being selfish?

 

You can't be expected to live the life of a monk simply because she wants to live the life of a nun.

 

Personally, I think she should do the honourable thing and set YOU free. Divorce you and let you reclaim your manhood. She can go on living the life of celibacy that she desires.

 

I wonder how she would really feel if I did get sex elsewhere. What would her inner feelings be? Would she feel that I did not love her enough to become celibate? Is that fair of her when it is a part of marriage?

 

As for divorce, I know 100% that this would be motivation enough for her to change, but this change would not be one of love (or I suspect that it wouldn't) and instead be one motivated by the fear of losing me and losing face in public. And it would be motivated by the fear of failure.

 

 

James, be true to yourself. It doesn't matter what I or anyone else says. What matters is that any course of action will need to be lived for the rest of your life, by you and potentially, by ripple effect, others. Choose wisely, what course of action(s) you can live with, for now and always, whereby you can still respect yourself, as the man you are.

 

Thank you for your words. I hope that you do check in on my life and keep giving advice. You have much wisdom that can be very helpful to me.

 

I know what I could live with. I know what I am choosing at this point.

 

The question is..as I sit here trying to determine a path with a problem not of my own making (or at least that is what I am told), can I respect myself if I continue with no change?

 

The answer is no.

 

He is well within his rights and commonly recognized morals to seperate from her. Frankly though, it could be much worse than twice a month. Some busy, healthy realationships with kids, workng parents, and adult education have less activity than that.

 

I don't think it's as much about the frequency of the physical intimacy as it is about the quality of the loving intimacy between them.

 

First, it is not socially recognized that one divorces for the lack of sex. As has been done here (and not this thread specifically...I mean in general), the focus will be on ME and what I could be or do differently. If I chose divorce, then I know that very very few would say, "Right choice."

 

Second, for the record, it is NOT twice a month and has not been that frequency for many months or even years. If I am "lucky," then it may be once a month, but even that is high.

 

Third, I recognize that our busier lives can hinder a sex life. I have no problem with that. And if that were the problem, then I would be much more understanding.

 

Your last sentence says it all. As I stated at the beginning, it is the lack of desire that kills me. It is the comments that "If I had my way, then we would have no sex" which while they were meant to probably be only honesty, they hurt. It is that rejection of me as a man that causes me to be angry and frustrated.

 

This "chick" is his wife, whom he loves. It's the not having sex part that's causing him conflict.

 

Thank you. When I get some comments, then I look back at who the person is and remember how I might have responded at such an age. While the young can give wise advice, their level of experiences do prevent them from having learned all that they say. Yet their comments out of innocence can be very helpful in opening my eyes to what I have become.

 

Before you act on this, why not just try the only thing that worked for me?

 

I explained why I think it would be counterproductive for me. Putting the kids off to bed on a Saturday night and quietly "demanding" sex will be a constant reminder of her past when she was told that "Later I am going to...."

 

Tell her your marriage is at risk - and not due to you cheating on her, using drugs, gambling, or any kind of abuse. Instead your marriage is in trouble because your sexual needs are ignored.

 

I honestly think she got this message from our talk a week ago. While it has not produced results yet (and most of that is because she had the flu for about four days...yes it was real) I am still giving it time.

 

I cannot be much plainer than I was.

 

Ask her if she will commit to sex once per week.

 

Honestly I don't think that I would commit to sex once a week. However, as said above, it is not the frequency but the lack of desire. If I knew that she would have sex two or three times a month and enjoy it...and our lack of sex was a schedule thing, then this thread would not exist.

 

If I "asked" for sex once a week and got it, then I would wonder if the desire was there.

 

I remember when you started your thread about this. I was glad for you. I wasn't sure then and am not now if that is what I personally wanted to do with my own situation.

 

It's decision time: what will you do?

 

As TBF said, let's give it some time. The ball is in her court. The question is not what will I do now, but what will I do then and when is "then?"

 

Say nothing to her and quietly go visit that massage parlor you have been driving slowly past for the past month? Seems like that was the answer you have been looking for this entire thread.

 

Actually a few pages back, I explained how I DID say something to her, and she realized that I was serious. The question remains...will she act on her resolutions?

 

I had to chuckle when I read about the massage parlor. The only one I drive by frequently is the one where I get my hair cut. I doubt she would consider her place one where I could get a "happy ending." Maybe I should ask her.

 

As for me wanting this as my answer at the beginning, I don't agree. If you noticed, I waited five months after this conversation took place (where she made this comment about getting it elsewhere) to post this thread. I think that if I wanted a validation, then I would have started the thread much sooner. And I have been here long enough to know that I would get three main answers to this thread. What I wanted was some ideas and direction, and I believe I got them. It is still up to me to decide.

 

Or instead will you Man-Up and walk directly into a conflict situation with total confidence that whatever the outcome, you will at least be free of frustration, limbo, powerlessness. That is no way to live.

 

Man up...such an interesting phrase. What I seek is results. I am willing to guess that she has felt that I have walked directly into the conflict at least twice. What I have not done is given an ultimatum such as "Give me sex or I leave." No amount of convincing at this point can make me think I am less of a man for not doing so. "Asking" for sex once a week and attaching an ultimatum speaks to me of a master/slave relationship more than a husband/wife relationship.

 

And the opposite would be a "wimp" response. This would be either ignoring the situation or begging for sex and taking whatever answer is given. I can say that I have stooped close to such a level. And that is why I feel that I have become more resentful and frustrated.

 

I am satisfied that this time I have at least walked into the conflict and explained my position clearly and matter of factly. It was not out of anger but one of honestly and assertiveness. Inside I felt good of how it went.

 

If she says yes (in your scenario), then this does not mean I am free of all my problems and frustrations. I still do not know if her lack of desire actually returned. If she says no, then I know that the drift between us which is now about sex, will be greater and will include more problems regarding how we relate to each other.

 

I tried to quote tnhusband's comments, too, but it seems that I didn't. I am seriously giving thought to his ideas not to changer her and to change me. However, my motivation will be for me and as a way to focus on me and my satisfaction versus having the feeling that I am begging her to change. If in any way I feel that my changes are to influence her, then I think I will be losing some more self esteem for myself...or rather feel that I gave in to get her to want me. I cannot do this.

 

This might sound odd and perhaps rude, but, could you just pleasure yourself privately and enjoy the bond that you have with her otherwise?

 

Do you want to know EVERY part of my life?

 

This can only be a temporary solution as you well know. It leaves out one important aspect of sex....the woman.

 

The bond that you have with someone is the most important thing, James. You don't want to have to separate to figure out just how true that really is.

 

I know what you are saying and agree. I am not near ready to leave her. Sex is not that important yet. It would take a further breakdown of our relationship in areas not related to sex before I got to that point.

 

However, the bond I have is weaker because it is not strengthened with the physical intimacy. If this was a result of a disability or illness, then I would know the cause. Now it is due to a lack of desire which IMO is interpreted as a lack of desire for me. This in turn has begun to weaken the bond we have.

 

In the greater scheme of things, I know that sex is not a huge factor. Yet I cannot escape the fact that in a marriage it is a very important part.

[amerikajin]

However, the bond I have is weaker because it is not strengthened with the physical intimacy. If this was a result of a disability or illness, then I would know the cause. Now it is due to a lack of desire which IMO is interpreted as a lack of desire for me. This in turn has begun to weaken the bond we have.

 

Okay, so it might indicate a lack of a desire for you in a physical sense. That could mean a lot of things, not all of which represent a threat to you or your relationship. I think what you're experiencing right now on some level is a fear -- a fear that she is losing interest in you and that she might begin to pull away from you. It's a threat to your ego (I don't mean that to be provocative).

 

Sexual desire fades over time...it just does. It's unrealistic to expect that you're both going to have the same level of desire for each other over a long period of time. The question is how to deal with this. You asked her about the lack of desire on her part, and she told you the answer.

 

In the greater scheme of things, I know that sex is not a huge factor. Yet I cannot escape the fact that in a marriage it is a very important part.

 

I think sex is essentially the ultimate expression of affection, but it's not the only way to express it. You can cuddle, hug, kiss, caress, and do all sorts of things to show you love your partner. If your partner can't express any of these things, then maybe you do have a problem. But if it's just a lack of sexual desire, a lack of arousal, I would work around that somehow.

[OldEurope]

James,

 

"Selfishness"-- if you come from the Ayn Rand school of putting your life first before withering away from a kind, strong, intelligent man into a heap of resentment, anger, and self -sacrifice for others who benefit where you pay.....then it is a very good thing. It means that you have a "Self" you want to take care of.

 

What about a trial separation? This will give her a "taste" of what could happen in a divorce scenario, and you leave open the option of seeing someone else. NO, I do not look "lightly" upon affairs, but in this case, and given what she said, she has been the provocative one, not you. You did not instigate this, she did.

 

She might...she just might..have to get a hard lesson and eat her words...I hate to say this because I wish no emotional distress on anyone, but a cold splash of water-slash-rude awakening might do her a bit of good. Yes, yes I know "affairs" do not save marriages as some contend, but this is an unusual case where his wife is totally expressing how she takes him for granted. If he becomes involved with someone else, it just might make her wake up....

 

I see no other option...

[OldEurope]

PS

 

 

to my last post...

 

I really just do believe, when I think about what she said, that only when she fears that she might lose you, will she wake up and come off this cloud of arrogance and taking-for-granted she seems to be riding on...Again, not to play a deception game (although she sure is), the APPEARANCE of an affair might be the trick, if you just do not feel up to being with someone else...

 

OE