"If you want sex, then you will have to get it somewhere else."

[Lizzie60]

James.. I know that this sex issue has been on your mind for a long time.. I understand you're staying for your kids.. I totally respect that.. I understand that everything else is great.. except the sex.. but .. seriously.. you're probably in your early 40s... do you honestly feel you can go on like that for another 20 years?

 

I know you will eventually get weak and go for a discreet A... and I will totally support you in that decision..

 

Your W is being 'lazy' sex-wise.. she just doesn't want to put the effort.. it's that simple..

 

She simply does not love you... btdt..

[Thornton]

I think she made you this offer because she feels guilty for not providing for you physically... not because she stepped out on you previously. Also, I don't think she actually believes you are the kind of man that can take her up on it.

 

I don't think she necessarily feels any guilt; she's just putting her foot down. She's saying she will not have sex with him, and he can go and get it elsewhere if he wants, but he won't be getting it from her. Exactly what I said to my ex, in fact. I also knew that he wouldn't actually do it, same as the OP's wife probably knows he won't.

 

Tbh from what I've read I don't think the situation sounds like it can be resolved - she simply doesn't want sex with him - so the OP either puts up with doing without sex or he leaves his wife.

[hotgurl]

I don't think she necessarily feels any guilt; she's just putting her foot down. She's saying she will not have sex with him, and he can go and get it elsewhere if he wants, but he won't be getting it from her. Exactly what I said to my ex, in fact. I also knew that he wouldn't actually do it, same as the OP's wife probably knows he won't.

 

Tbh from what I've read I don't think the situation sounds like it can be resolved - she simply doesn't want sex with him - so the OP either puts up with doing without sex or he leaves his wife.

 

Did you ever feel bad for not having sex with your ex? So you feel out of love with him.

 

Did you feel like you were using him?

 

I am just curious because I can't understand why women do this.

[Lizzie60]

I gave you that opening on purpose. I wanted to see if empathy was a part of your personality. Thanks for answering as I predicted

 

This has nothing to do with 'empathy'... it's the reality.. you've never been parent.. then you have NOOOO idea what being a parent is like.. it's that simple...

[Thornton]

In my mind I think you should just demand sex and force it upon her even though she will see this as rape. Obviously I'm not sugesting you get a gun or knife and threaten to stab or shoot her if she doesn't put out. But what I'm saying is be sexualy aggressive, take your wife even if she cries while you do it, hell trick yourself into enjoying the crying.

 

Please, whatever you do, do not follow this advice... not unless you want to end up serving a jail sentence for rape. Having sex with someone against their will is rape, even if you are married to the person in question.

[JamesM]

Have you considered having her make some final decisions?

 

I should rephrase what I said, because she does make many decisions. I highly doubt she would say she doesn't.

 

But open to suggestions...what do you mean by that?

 

james,

if the situation goes unchanged would you consider divorce when the kids are in college.

 

Can't really say right now.

 

They are around 7 and 13 right?

Four between 7 and 13.

 

do you think if things continue on this way. Will you resent her and fall out of love with her?

 

Resent her...yes. Fall out of love with her...hard to imagine.

 

Does she truly know how much this hurts you?

 

Does she know it hurts me...without a doubt. Does she know how much....I don't think so, because no matter how much we talk about it, to her it is simply the physical act I need. She may enjoy it once in awhile, but she doesn't need it. What she needs most is my friendship and emotional shoulder and support and anything else emotional. I know without that aspect of me she would be hurting.

 

With all your respect Car... if you never had kids.. you absolutely cannot say what you would or wouldn't do...

 

Someone who never had kids CANNOT understand what it is to be a parent.. sorry about that..

 

As someone who had no kids for five years and honestly didn't really relate to them for a couple more after that, this is very true.

 

I think she made you this offer because she feels guilty for not providing for you physically... not because she stepped out on you previously. Also, I don't think she actually believes you are the kind of man that can take her up on it.

 

I agree that her past trauma has made her see sex as not necessary for marriage. I really cannot say that there has been no affair (even if an EA) but I have a hard time understanding how she could have. While we have not had a perfect marriage, we have usually had a great friendship. To hurt this friendship would be hard for her.

 

And you are right. I don't think she thinks that I would take her up on the offer. I do think that she expects t hat I will back off on sex because I want her happy. But I also know that she knows it still is something that hurts and bothers me.

 

Because of her past abuse (in every way), she is good at denial. Deny there is a problem and it no longer exists. It helped her survive and maker her who she is. If she had faced her situation as a child, then who knows what would have happened.

[carhill]

I am just curious because I can't understand why women do this.

 

They do it because men allow it, just like James is in an essentially sexless M and I was in a M devoid of any significant emotional or spiritual intimacy. We allowed women to treat us like that. That's our responsibility. Take control of your soul and move forward.

[carhill]

This has nothing to do with 'empathy'... it's the reality.. you've never been parent.. then you have NOOOO idea what being a parent is like.. it's that simple...

It shows me you have no empathy for other's circumstances. It's all about you. I divorced a woman like you.

[Trialbyfire]

I should rephrase what I said, because she does make many decisions. I highly doubt she would say she doesn't.

 

But open to suggestions...what do you mean by that?

Her father is domineering. She replaced her father with a protector but also one who makes the final decisions. Did she also deal with her father in a passive-aggressive manner?

[Lizzie60]

Please, whatever you do, do not follow this advice... not unless you want to end up serving a jail sentence for rape. Having sex with someone against their will is rape, even if you are married to the person in question.

 

 

I agree.. gosh.. James is smarter than that.. why would you want to 'force' someone for sex.. this is totally ridiculous.. it is criminal..

[angie2443]

. There's no way I'd put a child through what went on in our house. I'd have taken the financial hit and made a healthier life for them. I love kids and still hope to enjoy at least one of my own, with a compatible partner.

 

James, I think this is what you should do. Get a divorce. My parents divorced. No, it wasn't easy. I begged my parents to stay together because I couldn't wrap my mind aroung how bad it was. All I could see was that I was going to loose my family. However, I did feel how bad it was and was more harmed by them staying together than them seperating. I think you will find that most adults who came from divorced families now understand that comming from a broken family is better than living in one.

 

Your marriage sounds unhealthy. I think your problems run deeper than the sex issue. It doesn't sound like they can be worked out. Sorry.

[hotgurl]

They do it because men allow it, just like James is in an essentially sexless M and I was in a M devoid of any significant emotional or spiritual intimacy. We allowed women to treat us like that. That's our responsibility. Take control of your soul and move forward.

 

while I guess I don't understand women just losing their drive. or desire for their husband but still being in love with them.

 

I love sex I love sex with my husband.

 

In fact I want it more than him. I couldn't never imagine denying him sex for long periods of time just because.

 

I have the opposite problem I am the one who gets rejected.

[JamesM]

Her father is domineering. She replaced her father with a protector but also one who makes the final decisions. Did she also deal with her father in a passive-aggressive manner?

 

As for our dynamics, I can relate something that happened. She once told her friend that was a submissive wife, and her friend laughed. "That is totally against your personality." And it is true. She is not submissive. I know I do not dominate her. She is known as the one who will speak her mind.

 

Part of her "problem" (as seen by her father) is that she did not submit to him. That is probably why she was singled out. However, she learned that being less aggressive made for an easier life.

 

 

Any time I make a "final decision," I can say that it is not in defiance of her thinking. In no way is she someone who sits and lets me make the decision without strong input. I think the fact that she made this comment speaks of that. She takes the initiative in making changes and decisions often.

[JamesM]

.

 

I have the opposite problem I am the one who gets rejected.

 

So he would better understand my wife as you better understand me?

[Lizzie60]

while I guess I don't understand women just losing their drive. or desire for their husband but still being in love with them.

 

I love sex I love sex with my husband.

 

In fact I want it more than him. I couldn't never imagine denying him sex for long periods of time just because.

 

I have the opposite problem I am the one who gets rejected.

 

 

NO... I think women who do NOT want sex with their husband.. just don't love them anymore.. they like them as a friend.. it's just that.. nothing more.. btdt..

 

I know how his W feels .. I was in her shoes many many years ago.. with my first ex..

[PhoenixRise]

This statement your wife made saying that if you want sex you should get it from someone else is probaly the most unloving think I have heard in a long time.

 

I think it is also manipulative X 10.

 

Your wife knows you. She knows that you are not going to go out and have an affair. She knows that you won't divorce her. She just wanted to shut you up and when the situation comes up again, she will say stop complaining because she gave you an out.

 

Sex is an important part of a healthy relationship. If your wife isn't willing to work on the problem and you are not willing to cheat or leave, what can you do?

 

Isn't this eroding how you feel about her?

[Lizzie60]

This statement your wife made saying that if you want sex you should get it from someone else is probaly the most unloving think I have heard in a long time.

 

I think it is also manipulative X 10.

 

Your wife knows you. She knows that you are not going to go out and have an affair. She knows that you won't divorce her. She just wanted to shut you up and when the situation comes up again, she will say stop complaining because she gave you an out.

 

Sex is an important part of a healthy relationship. If your wife isn't willing to work on the problem and you are not willing to cheat or leave, what can you do?

 

Isn't this eroding how you feel about her?

 

BEST POST ON THIS THREAD... every single word is TRUE!!!!!

[Trialbyfire]

As for our dynamics, I can relate something that happened. She once told her friend that was a submissive wife, and her friend laughed. "That is totally against your personality." And it is true. She is not submissive. I know I do not dominate her. She is known as the one who will speak her mind.

 

Part of her "problem" (as seen by her father) is that she did not submit to him. That is probably why she was singled out. However, she learned that being less aggressive made for an easier life.

 

 

Any time I make a "final decision," I can say that it is not in defiance of her thinking. In no way is she someone who sits and lets me make the decision without strong input. I think the fact that she made this comment speaks of that. She takes the initiative in making changes and decisions often.

James, IMO, there's a strong thread of power struggle in your marriage. You are a controlling and dominant personality type, whether you mean to or not, whether you get her input or not. She fights a lifelong battle with her foundational past and yet, appears to create a similar dynamic but with her in the driver's seat, at least with sex. So...how do you and she de-escalate this? Have you both been to IC?

[Thornton]

I'm sorry Thornton, but reading your posts, I don't believe you should even be posting advice to James in this situation. You are selfish, childish, and immature. Everything in the relationship obviously is about you, and you clearly use people. Not to mention, you are a coward for sticking with people to suit your own needs. Not only is this heinous, but it's ludicrous. I hope you don't believe in Karma.

 

And you wouldn't care if he cheated?

 

You need many, many years of intensive therapy.

 

There is no need to make a personal attack on me; you don't even know me so please keep your impolite opinions to yourself. I posted in an attempt to be helpful, because in the past I have been in the same position as James's wife, i.e. I have been the female in a long-term relationship who was refusing to have sex with the male. The last time I checked, all discussions on this board were open to everyone, so I shall continue to post on any thread I like.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I don't think she necessarily feels any guilt; she's just putting her foot down. She's saying she will not have sex with him, and he can go and get it elsewhere if he wants, but he won't be getting it from her. Exactly what I said to my ex, in fact. I also knew that he wouldn't actually do it, same as the OP's wife probably knows he won't.

Tbh from what I've read I don't think the situation sounds like it can be resolved - she simply doesn't want sex with him - so the OP either puts up with doing without sex or he leaves his wife.

 

I have a hard time believing that she is that cold towards her husband.

 

I think she feels stuck and guilty.

 

I agree that her past trauma has made her see sex as not necessary for marriage. I really cannot say that there has been no affair (even if an EA) but I have a hard time understanding how she could have. While we have not had a perfect marriage, we have usually had a great friendship. To hurt this friendship would be hard for her.

And you are right. I don't think she thinks that I would take her up on the offer. I do think that she expects t hat I will back off on sex because I want her happy. But I also know that she knows it still is something that hurts and bothers me.

Because of her past abuse (in every way), she is good at denial. Deny there is a problem and it no longer exists. It helped her survive and maker her who she is. If she had faced her situation as a child, then who knows what would have happened.

 

At some point your going to have to SHOW her what she stands to lose.

 

I'm sorry James, this is an awful situation, but having been through similar myself... I can tell you that because she believes your too weak to leave... she will continue to treat you as she does.

 

You have to shock the system somehow. I don't care how you do it, draw up divorce papers... end your friendship with her... find another woman... ect.

 

Bottom line is that if you want things to change, and understand that it may not be possible to have permanent change... your going to have to stop playing nice.

 

Personally, I think she is broken. I don't think you can fix her... I don't think she is interested or perhaps even capable of changing herself.

 

Her father is domineering. She replaced her father with a protector but also one who makes the final decisions. Did she also deal with her father in a passive-aggressive manner?

 

This is an interesting idea!

 

I think James sees himself as a perfect balance, but what really matters is how his wife sees him.

[JamesM]

This statement your wife made saying that if you want sex you should get it from someone else is probaly the most unloving think I have heard in a long time.

 

I think it is also manipulative X 10.

 

Explain further. Because she feels I am in a corner? as stated below?

 

Your wife knows you. She knows that you are not going to go out and have an affair. She knows that you won't divorce her. She just wanted to shut you up and when the situation comes up again, she will say stop complaining because she gave you an out.

 

Understanding your situation, I do not want to be insensitive, but what would an affair do? Or instead of an affair as has been suggested, have someone for sex?

 

Do you see this as perhaps a test to see what will happen?

 

It is unloving, but if sex to her is not always a good thing, then maybe she doesn't see it as so unloving.

 

Sex is an important part of a healthy relationship. If your wife isn't willing to work on the problem and you are not willing to cheat or leave, what can you do?

 

Isn't this eroding how you feel about her?

 

Yes. It does in the sense that there is anger and resentment. This could all disappear if she changed. It has not lead to an indifference about her. There is still a great love. If there wasn't, then this thread would not be here.

[carhill]

while I guess I don't understand women just losing their drive. or desire for their husband but still being in love with them.

IMO, you understand better than you think. It really boils down to actions and words matching, like we always say here on LS. It's so simple, really. I find it curious how women will readily deduce and or admit that their man has fallen out of love (with or without meeting someone else) when his sexual interest in them goes away but are reticent to turn that mirror upon themselves. I don't find it curious, really, but rather obvious. He essentially becomes a really handy, strong girlfriend with a penis and no balls.

 

OP, I hope this has helped you solidify your path with the option of embracing other paths. Clarity is a healthy thing

[Thornton]

NO... I think women who do NOT want sex with their husband.. just don't love them anymore.. they like them as a friend.. it's just that.. nothing more.. btdt..

 

I know how his W feels .. I was in her shoes many many years ago.. with my first ex..

 

I think this is very true... but I would add that it is possible to truly love someone as a friend and yet not want sex with them. Sometimes you end up seeing a guy as a much loved brother rather than as a lover, and I've never known a relationship recover from that. I've been in that situation a couple of times, as I explained before... I'm still in touch with the last guy because I genuinely love him like a brother, I just don't have those sort of feelings for him. With hindsight perhaps we should only ever have been friends... luckily we realised that before any kids were involved.

[Mr. Lucky]

However, now, she has the perspective that I would deem is correct. The kids have no clue what i am going through. Occasionally they may see us fighting (but usually not about sex), and since I am probably the main stable parental figure in their life, a divorce would do incredible damage. Irreversible.

James, this is the part that I'd wager you're not in a position to honestly assess. I'd bet that, at times, there is a very perceptible tension between you and your wife. I'd guess that, fairly evaluated, the fighting in front of the kids is more vicious and mean spirited than you recall post-fight. And I'd also guess that they are obvious indicators in body language and conduct that clearly reflect the sexual disconnect between the two of you. It's hard to believe that, driven as you are to undertake a 4-year well documented quest to find an "answer", you're able to keep that conflict undetectable within the closed dynamics of a family.

 

While I'm not saying that this disfunction should be the main factor in any decision you make, I do think that it's short changed in your present analysis of your marriage...

 

Mr. Lucky

[carhill]

Take the kids and your W to a family counseling session. Enlightening, it will be