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"If you want sex, then you will have to get it somewhere else."


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I officially stop sugarcoating it: the need to be touched (sexually, but not only), is an important, essential human need. Not having it met is NOT okay. Whatever the wife's problem is, it is just ridiculous, cruel, absurd, delusional etc. of her to expect that he (or anybody else in such a situation) should just accept it and deal with it. While remaining in this situation is a perfectly valid choice, it will probably be one of the hardest, among the other options. :mad::mad::mad: It is NOT okay. It is NOT going to be okay :mad:. I'd be happy to be proven wrong for the kid's sake, but doubt it :(.

 

I also ressurect my sluts/hookers suggestion :D. Of course, it is not going to solve any of the relationship problems, but may help James regain some swagger and realize that there are other realities possible, and more importantly - that as much as you can love one woman, there others that you could be just as happy with. :). Alternatively, send the wife flowers, with divorce papers tucked inside (instead of a card). :D

 

I hope it is obvious that i mean no disrespect to the marriage, but it pisses me off that another decent guy must go through this.

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I have said it on other threads, but this is pretty much what my wife told me about five months ago.

 

In a conversation about different things which led to sex, she said that if she had her druthers, then we would not have sex anymore, and if it was that important to me, then I would need to find it somewhere else.

 

Now if you have read my threads, then hopefully you have determined that I have attempted over the years to solve this problem. We have had sex occasionally (once or twice a month) since then. She actually enjoyed it sometimes, too. But she has made the comment about her not wanting it anymore, too, although not the "get it somewhere else" comment.

 

So, my question is....what would you do?

 

I am not into hearing about why she said it or what I should be doing so that she loves sex again. I know the list, and hopefully again for those who have followed any of my comments, I come across as one who has tried most everything since I joined LS.

 

My question again is....how would you approach things now?

 

Would you deliver an ultimatum? (I did this three years ago and it gave a temporary change).

 

Would you ask for a divorce?

 

Would you demand sex?

 

Would you begin an affair?

 

Would you simply "purchase" it from a safe place?

 

Would you get a :f***buddy?

 

Or what other response would you have?

 

Leave. This chick is obviously wacked in the head and does not care enough about your feelings to seek therapy.

 

What is wrong with you that you're even thinking of staying with her?!

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I don't know what I'd do if I were you.

It's an impossible situation. You're in love with your spouse, and the one thing that would make things better is to re-ignite a sexual relationship~ but that isn't going to happen.

 

Do you want to live the rest of your life without sex?

I don't think you should have to.

 

How you reconcile between loving your wife and denying yourself is beyond me.

I would also point out that, for reasons currently unknown, she's denied also. If the issue is somehow the chemistry between the two of them, then she also misses the chance to connect sexually with someone else. To me, that's the flaw in "staying for the kids", as it extracts a price from everyone involved. If James truly loves his wife - and as palpable as the emotion in his posts is, it seems he does - then why would he want to keep her in a sexless relationship? As tough as it is, just might have to accept that some things aren't fixable and shouldn't be kept alive...

 

Mr. Lucky

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Jame's wife doesn't have a low libido IMO. It sounds more like a sexual aversion. I read a book recently entitled "False Intimacy" wherein sexual aversion is categorized in the family of 'sexual dysfunction/addiction'. There are cases where people have indicated that they have simply fallen out of love with their partner, however in the cases where they still love their partner and are averted to sex... well then something deeper is at work.

 

Uncovering it rather than running from it may keep something otherwise pretty okay from dissolving.

 

Yeah, it sounds a little different from the more ordinary sexless marriage stories, but I'm no expert.

 

James, would your wife be open to some kind of counseling with someone who specializes in sexual problems? Is there any chance she'll admit there's a problem?

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Carhill,

What is the minimum age a female would have to be for you to consider dating her at this point?

 

 

 

LOL, thanks for that levity, especially the part about him shutting up. You and my stbx could be good friends...that was a common complaint of hers. We'd go to bed and she'd want to get busy and I'd want to talk to get into the mood. Sex from intimacy.

 

Maybe I should've kept a little fridge of beer next to the bed ;)

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the more details you give, the more I can compare my situation to yours (by the way I'm 46 and have 4 children between 8 and 17).

 

We were having sex twice a month and it was always a nightmare to get my wife to have sex with me. Basically, she said that I was putting too much pressure on her and I was being nasty about it and that put her off. We decided to go to counselling and it didn't work. It made things worse, also because I foolishly said I would never leave the family. Sex went down to once/month. We finally separated over it, but briefly. We got back together and didn't work out. Wife proposed a sexless marriage or to get sex out of the relationship, which I turned down. Eventually I packed my bags and said I wanted a divorce. Compromise came: once a week. It's more once every 10 days, but I'm happy with it. Sex gets better every time.

 

Now, your wife is not acting on it because she knows you would never leave. This is the unfortunate truth. There is no point in looking for an answer, because you've put yourself in an impossible situation (for you) and in a very convenient one (for her). She gets what she wants from the marriage. She is happy with the status quo. You know, James, you can't blame her or being resentful, because you created the situation and now you are trapped in it. She like you as a friend and as a father. My wife too, but at least I'm getting the sex until I will (probably) divorce her when the youngest flees the nest...

 

Think about it. You can't stop people falling out of love, but you can get the best out of a tricky situation with a little bit of self respect. If my wife didn't compromise, I would have been out. There is a limit to what a man can take.

 

Finally: sex as a reason to divorce. I think your children need to know that sexual intimacy is an important part in a marriage, because it is. By staying sexless, you are telling them that it's ok to have a marriage without sex, and this is highly damaging...

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Carhill,

What is the minimum age a female would have to be for you to consider dating her at this point?

Based on my historical patterns, likely not under 40. I've met a few ladies, or have known them for awhile since this divorce stuff has started, and, invariably, the ones I say to myself 'she'd be someone I'd ask out' have been 40 or older.

 

IMO, the issues the OP is facing are person-dependent and relationship-dependent, not age-dependent. I've always felt a wide range of sexuality styles from women, no matter the age I was. Everyone is different. I liked Mr. Lucky's somewhat unique perspective that James, by the action of staying, is doing his part to prevent his wife from finding a compatible partner, whether that means someone she can feel sexual with or someone who embraces her asexuality.

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If it is at all possible for you - it depends on how deep your emotional bonds are to your wife - I would say the best thing for you to do is get a divorce. A marriage without a sex life is not much of a marriage at all in my opinion. I need sex to be happy. The risk is sooner or later you will end up in an affair otherwise, fall in love with the OW, and have created a mess for yourself. Be proactive and get the divorce first.

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Well James, today is a new day, what did you find out from your wife? Did you have that talk with her I suggested as did a few others?

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Well James, today is a new day, what did you find out from your wife? Did you have that talk with her I suggested as did a few others?

 

Today is a new day, and unfortunately, I am going to have to actually work. :(:laugh: I do not have time to get a response to every post here, but I will try to summarize some.

 

JacJack, as you said yesterday, this gets dizzying and emotionally draining. To be honest, I am surprised at ho much discussion this has generated. I am getting many good ideas and many perspectives. Some are fairly close in their analysis because they have followed my other threads, while others give the quick answer reaction of "divorce her."

 

And to answer your question, no. I did not start a discussion. Nor will I for the next few days. Does that make me weak (as some like to say)? Actually, I have a reason....she is working her third shift job over the weekend. She is not in senior management but she works in the health care field. I guarantee she does not keep me for the money as we make a very similar wage (depending on her hours).

 

Will we have "the talk?" At some point again yes. It won't be before next Wednesday. I know I will be hearing how I won't end up doing it, and that is a fair comment because I have dealt with this so long.

 

Divorce is not an option to me. For many here, this is the quick answer. "Divorce her, move on and be happy." As I have said many times, sex does not consume my life. I do not need it daily or even more than once a week to feel "affirmed." In fact two or three times a month during my busy times and with her schedule, can be enough for me. This thread was started because the comment was made that she doesn't need it anymore and well, you know the rest. Since that comment in April, while we have not had alot of sex, we have had it once a month or so. It has not been that she refuses me when I have approached her. But knowing her feelings, this does tend to make me not want to really want it.

 

Having an affair is a tempting option but not a realistic one. I do not want the emotional connection with someone else. I do not need such a complication in my life. Unless some woman is willing to be at my beck and call as needed for sex only with NSA, an affair will simply do more damage to me. I am aware of that. However, knowing that I am more vulnerable because of my frustration, I think I also tend to avoid pushing any friendship with a woman IRL to that point. As I am sure many guys can say, I know of a couple that might be open to something, but I also know that such things do not stay simple.

 

Seeing escorts probably fits the bill the best, but of course that has its negatives as well. At least that fits the "be at my beck and call" idea that I would want. It costs money and might not be fulfilling. Although I have no doubt that they can spin a fantasy, I do not think I can be as convinced as some that this is "love."

 

Dating sites as has been mentioned (and thanks TDP for the link), seem to me to be a precursor to an affair. And checking out the link provided, most available women were either average to heavy or BBWs. I have nothing against heavier women, but unless I know them personally, there is no initial attraction. (I say that because I do have some women friends who would be classified as BBWs who I find quite sexy based on knowing them). So, my initial journey into dating sites has not been encouraging.

 

So, my actions I can take are...take her up on her offer (which would only be via escorts or FBuddies) or attempt to fix the situation via confrontation and blunt discussion. Since I love her more than words can say, and despite this "small" (that was said with sarcasm because to her it is small yet she knows it really is not) problem, we do enjoy each other's company and neither of us would want to split.

 

A blunt discussion will lead to certainly a short term solution of more sex if done right. This will not lead to a LT solution. Counseling will be helpful towards that. (I gotta say that I was amused that the suggestion was made that the children should go to counseling with us. Funny thing is...much as we love our children, I can say as many who are parents will say, they are part of the reason we don't have time for sex. I have no doubt that some dynamics in our family life could be changed, but if the impression is we parents do alot of fighting, then this is false. We actually do a fair amount of PDA. It is just that it never leads to more).

 

Other suggestions are noted.

 

And TrialByFire, I really appreciate the advice given. After being "together" in this community for the past years, you have gained a respect that only can be gained from the many good posts of advice you have given me. Your perceptions of my marriage and me can be kinda uncanny. While we don't always agree on all issues, your opinion is respected.

 

I say that because I did NOT think your question about dominance was silly or obvious...as was sarcastically said by a poster. When you asked that question, then you really got me thinking. I knew where you were going with it and tried not to let that color my answers. Your point was...if she feels that she has no control over her life decisions especially since she came from a home where that was the case, then it is entirely possible that she is using sex as the control "weapon" that she desperately needs. Being that when she was younger, she used food that way, this is not far fetched at all. I think that was very perceptive. I have not ruled this out as a very viable problem.

 

Giotto, we do have many similarities....no doubt. You have reached a different conclusion than I have. While you haev given up hope that love will return, I have not totally given up hope (or divorce would be the best option) that my marriage will gain it sexual passion back. It has been about six or eight years so far and now it looks about the dimmest, but as long as a glimmer of hope is there...I will keep trying.

 

D-Lish, how am I leaning? I am considering the offer made seriously as a way to eliminate that "control" she has over sex. Yet I view that as a failure, too.

 

Lizzie, your perspective is appreciated. You know that. I think you have some valid arguments for your view. I agree with most of what you say. The children do not think we have a bad marriage or a tumultuous house. They do not need the trauma of counseling session. If we went that route, then I think they would be afraid every day that their whole life would be uprooted.

 

Yet at this point, I cannot agree with you when you say that she does not love me and that is her motivation for a lack of sex. I know that this was your reason, but I also know of others here who reached a different conclusion. If I accepted that she does not love me, then in our many talks she has turned into an expert liar...which she is not.

 

I know after these years that I will get a number of reactions to any decision I make. If I divorce, then many will say "Wrong move." If I stay, then others will say "Weak." If I choose a talk or counseling, then others will say "Wrong move AND weak." :laugh:

 

This thread has me doing a lot of thinking. Simple and quick "solutions" such as divorce are not even remotely enticing. Nineteen years of marriage will not be let go that easily. IC or MC are something that ranks high on the list. As some have PMed to me, look again at every aspect of your marriage...what emotional connection is there really? Rule out the physical with an ultimatum that "demands" a doctor visit. And take care of yourself and do not allow her to gain the control over you because she has "control" over sex. These are being analyzed and computed.

 

And yes, JackJack, that "talk" is near the top, too. :) How else can I get answers?

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Giotto, we do have many similarities....no doubt. You have reached a different conclusion than I have. While you haev given up hope that love will return, I have not totally given up hope (or divorce would be the best option) that my marriage will gain it sexual passion back. It has been about six or eight years so far and now it looks about the dimmest, but as long as a glimmer of hope is there...I will keep trying.

 

 

 

my wife works shifts in the healthcare as well and the shifts are quite disrupting, so I know what you mean when you say that there is very little time for sex! You still love your wife and she loves you... we are at a different stage of our relationship... we would probably separate if we didn't have the children... I can only say that with age the shifts will become more cumbersome for you wife (my wife is 46 and always tired), so it's not going to get better from that point of you...

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my wife works shifts in the healthcare as well and the shifts are quite disrupting, so I know what you mean when you say that there is very little time for sex! You still love your wife and she loves you... we are at a different stage of our relationship... we would probably separate if we didn't have the children... I can only say that with age the shifts will become more cumbersome for you wife (my wife is 46 and always tired), so it's not going to get better from that point of you...

 

My wife is almost 46, and it does affect her energy level. She does have some health issues that I have not mentioned too much on this thread...but on others...because they should not overly affect her libido.

 

It is possible that the third shift affects her libido more than we both realize, too. She IS looking for a normal shift and really wants one. I do not hold out hope that this will solve the sex issue, but yes, it could make a difference.

 

I do get the impression that the love between the two of you is more of the problem than is sex. It sounds as if sex is a symptom. When I read your story, I wonder too, is sex the problem or the symptom in my situation?

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The facts: divorce is not an option for you, nor are affairs or paid sex. And this is the attitude of your wife towards sex in your marriage.

 

What is there left for us to say? The only thing we can say is: accept that things are the way they are.

 

The way I see it: intimacy and sex are vital in a relationship, just like emotional connection, communication, sharing the same values, having intellectual compatibility. I would not accept it if my partner would refuse to be intimate with me. OK, if it would be because of a medical problem, I could accept it but only if before if my sexual life with my partner would have been satisfactory the years before.

 

I honestly don't understand why you want to stay with your wife if she neglects such a basic need of yours.

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I do get the impression that the love between the two of you is more of the problem than is sex. It sounds as if sex is a symptom. When I read your story, I wonder too, is sex the problem or the symptom in my situation?

 

in my situation, it's indeed the symptom... my wife told me some time ago that her "love" for me gradually changed over the years... into caring about me and for me... ouch! I'm sure she sees me more as a friend than a lover. Maybe you should try and see your situation from that angle as well... it's possibile that you have become just a friend for her.

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The facts: divorce is not an option for you, nor are affairs or paid sex. And this is the attitude of your wife towards sex in your marriage.

 

I have not ruled out "paid sex."

 

What is there left for us to say? The only thing we can say is: accept that things are the way they are.

 

The assumption made by you is that "fix it" is futile. While I have little hope that a permanent change will be found, I have not given up. Starting threads such as this is also a fishing expeditionf or ideas and advice that might give me a lead of solution.

 

The way I see it: intimacy and sex are vital in a relationship, just like emotional connection, communication, sharing the same values, having intellectual compatibility.

 

We agree.

 

I would not accept it if my partner would refuse to be intimate with me. OK, if it would be because of a medical problem, I could accept it but only if before if my sexual life with my partner would have been satisfactory the years before.

 

If I accepted this "refusal," then I would not be here. And a medical reason has not been ruled out. If you were to lose your sex drive either due to menopause or low hormone levels, then telling you that sex is fun is like telling you that eating is enjoyable when you have a full stomach. Yes, you know it is, and yes, you remember that it is, but at the time you do not experience that it is.

 

So it is with my wife...as I see it (and admit may be proven wrong at some point).

 

I honestly don't understand why you want to stay with your wife if she neglects such a basic need of yours.

 

Honestly....despite what it may seem on LS, I am not ruled by my sex drive. I have many other benefits that my wife fulfills besides sex. Sex is not necessarily a basic need in so much as it is a necessary expression in a marriage.

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Maybe you should try and see your situation from that angle as well... it's possibile that you have become just a friend for her.

 

It definitely is and that is one of the things I learned from your story. This may be a parallel that we have, too. I feel for you....the rejection is more painful than the lack of sex. As I said before, it is not the lack of sex (although more would be nice) that hurts...it is the rejection of the sexual expression of love that hurts the most.

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it is the rejection of the sexual expression of love that hurts the most.

 

OK, then, since you appear to have a singular path of remaining in the status quo, get IC on this very issue and train your psychology and emotional state to accept and embrace this issue as a positive thing instead of a hurt. Change your perspective. Think of all the time you could spend doing positive things with the time spent posting here about the hurt. One more datapoint :)

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So, what is the lesson? Getting too close/intimate is a relationship killer?

Somewhere I encountered some article suggesting that touching, being nice, sweet nothings, cuddling, talking, etc. if done too much actually drain sexual energy from the relationship. I kinda buy that. You don't really want to grab your best friend, throw them on the floor and spank them ;).

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OK, then, since you appear to have a singular path of remaining in the status quo, get IC on this very issue and train your psychology and emotional state to accept and embrace this issue as a positive thing instead of a hurt. Change your perspective. Think of all the time you could spend doing positive things with the time spent posting here about the hurt. One more datapoint :)

 

 

That, plus an occasional working girl!:love:

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It definitely is and that is one of the things I learned from your story. This may be a parallel that we have, too. I feel for you....the rejection is more painful than the lack of sex. As I said before, it is not the lack of sex (although more would be nice) that hurts...it is the rejection of the sexual expression of love that hurts the most.

 

I know, James, I know... I just wish my wife told me many years ago instead of rejecting me. Unfortunately, because of this, my love for her has waned, although I still really care for her (well, after 25 years, what do you expect? We've spent more that half of our lives together). We don't cuddle or hug or anything, but we haven't done this for years, because she never enjoyed or seemed not to enjoy it. I put it down to her character and personality (she was never the "expansive" type) and used to call her "the fridge"....

 

Unfortunately, now I just feel betrayed. She still says she doesn't know what she wants or what she feels. She said she would go to IC and never did. She is the classic example of "let's sweep it under the carpet and forget about it"... :( If it was up to her, we would have sex once every three months or nothing at all... strange, because when we have sex (a lot more frequently now) she is a tiger.... :D

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OK, then, since you appear to have a singular path of remaining in the status quo, get IC on this very issue and train your psychology and emotional state to accept and embrace this issue as a positive thing instead of a hurt. Change your perspective.

 

Your earlier suggestion of IC has been duly noted and is being seriously considered. And when I say that, this means that it ranks up near the top of "Things to do to solve this problem." If "remaining in the status quo" means not considering divorce, then yes I am staying in the status quo.

 

Think of all the time you could spend doing positive things with the time spent posting here about the hurt. One more datapoint :)

 

While I have posted recently on a couple of threads on which you and I have crossed paths, I honestly have not started a thread in this topic since I think 2006. This comment that started this thread made me realize that things had become a bit worse than I thought.

 

I am not saying I do not spend alot of time on here, because when I get started, I do enjoy it here, but unless I am missing some of my posts. threads, much of my time here is actually done to divert my mind off my life's problems and give feedback to other people.

 

But I get your point and appreciate your perspective given here. One day I may reach the same conclusion you did. Hopefully, I will be where those are who have had a successful solution within their current marriage.

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Wow, James. I really feel for you. I've been in your situation with my H, with him in your W's position.

 

I could not phathom leaving him over sex. I loved him and wanted to have sex with him, no one else.

 

I have read your comments and threads on this for a few years. It seems to be getting worse. It sounds like she is feeling pressured, but more importantly, it sounds like she feels really bad for you and doesn't want you to suffer because of her. She sees and feels your pain, and yet feels helpless to counter it.

 

The two of you obviously love each other and have a decent relationship beyond the bedroom, but this is eventually going to affect that too if you two keep this at the top of your interactions.

 

No matter what you do, it seems to always be a catch-22.

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I have said it on other threads, but this is pretty much what my wife told me about five months ago.

 

In a conversation about different things which led to sex, she said that if she had her druthers, then we would not have sex anymore, and if it was that important to me, then I would need to find it somewhere else.

 

Now if you have read my threads, then hopefully you have determined that I have attempted over the years to solve this problem. We have had sex occasionally (once or twice a month) since then. She actually enjoyed it sometimes, too. But she has made the comment about her not wanting it anymore, too, although not the "get it somewhere else" comment.

 

So, my question is....what would you do?

 

I am not into hearing about why she said it or what I should be doing so that she loves sex again. I know the list, and hopefully again for those who have followed any of my comments, I come across as one who has tried most everything since I joined LS.

 

My question again is....how would you approach things now?

 

Would you deliver an ultimatum? (I did this three years ago and it gave a temporary change).

 

Would you ask for a divorce?

 

Would you demand sex?

 

Would you begin an affair?

 

Would you simply "purchase" it from a safe place?

 

Would you get a :f***buddy?

 

Or what other response would you have?

 

 

I would have to say "get a divorce". You cannot live like that nor should you. How selfish of your wife. You have needs too. I would tell her that you want a complete marriage and you do not plan to spend the rest of your life sexless, so you are asking for a divorce. Put that on her plate and see if she eats it!:mad:

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But I get your point and appreciate your perspective given here. One day I may reach the same conclusion you did. Hopefully, I will be where those are who have had a successful solution within their current marriage.

 

James, even though my path is different, I can tell you that MC helped me accept that path, even though your path, the path of remaining in the M and making it a positive experience, was our original goal. The clarity achieved from separating out all the details and clearly hearing each other helped us immensely. My wife could've been you, seriously, and I didn't blame her one bit for her complaints. MC got us to the why's and gave us tools to reach for the how's to regain that synergy and teamwork. Ultimately, we did not succeed, but that doesn't mean the process didn't succeed; we made informed, reasoned choices. As a reasonable man, I'm sure you can appreciate that.

 

OK, on to other things. That work thing is staring me in the face too. Hope today goes well :)

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I can only speak from personal experience - I've been in relationships where everything was fine apart from the sex, and the lack of sex was my choice not my partner's. The reason I didn't want sex was because I just wasn't attracted to the guy in question - I still felt sexual desire but not for my partner. Yet despite that I stayed in those relationships for 2-3 years each time, because the guy let me get away with refusing sex and so everything was pretty comfortable for me. He paid half of the rent and bills, took me to the movies and out for dinner, kept me company when we stayed at home watching tv, provided emotional support and friendship, and didn't pressure me to do anything physical such as sex.

 

The main point is this: I wanted to keep my partner as a friend and for financial support etc, I didn't want him as a lover. He was willing to put up with not getting sex, hoping that things would change, but I was adamant that they never would because I didn't have those sort of feelings for him. It sounds to me like your wife has put her foot down and simly refuses to have sex with you - she'll let you hang around as long as you want because you're a convenient source of financial and emotional support, but she probably has no intention of ever having sex with you gain, even if it results in divorce.

 

 

I really agree with this post.

 

She doesn't think you're going anywhere James. You're secure. So she's laying down the rules and she just expects you to deal with it. She thinks she can treat you this way and still have her lifestyle. I think many men get caught in this trap.

 

Sure, divorce would be brutal on the kids- and I went through total hell in my divorce. It was all over town- everyone in the world that I knew turned around and dropped me as their friend. Even my friend of 11+ years.

 

My kids have adjusted well. They have double the love with the situation they are in well. I'm sure it hurt them- but we stayed connected as parents and it's worked really well. It helps that my X married someone that I'd known for years. We communicate almost everyday about stuff to do with the kids- schedules etc.

 

When I met the man I'm married to now- well lets just say I was completely swept off my feet. Everything was fabulous between us- we're best friends, partners and have an awesome bedroom life.

 

Now that the divorce is over I realize that I would never of had what I have with H from my XH. He just wasn't that capable of relating to me the same way my H now does. He "gets" it. And I tell ya James- even if he ever leaves me or whatever later I would still feel lucky to have ever loved like this. Or be loved like this. I hate to see you deny yourself that kind of relationship. It's waste.

 

As a sexual abuse survivor- well it's hard for me to understand her. I understand the trauma but for me it has never affected my sex life- I always knew my molester was a freak and that none of it was my fault. I understand the pain she feels but if she would work on that issue she would be free!

 

I'm over 40 and premenopausal because I had a hysterctomy. I use a hormone patch. I had never had a great sex life until I met my H. I chase him around more than he chases me! I'm having the best time of my life in that area.

 

The disrespect of this issue with your wife kills me. She's not even willing to try to meet that need.

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