23 Days No Contact...And I Get A Note...

[NopeNah]

I can only relate to my personal experiences. My last ex left me some guy. She was gone for four months, then called and said "i want you back". We tried it again but, I could tell she still was not 100% in it after a months time. So, I bounced before she could break my heart again. There was also a lot of false promises and fake changes she said(lied) she'd made over the past few months. Words don't mean much to me from a dumper and they mean even less from a cheater!

[alexxx]

I can only relate to my personal experiences. My last ex left me some guy. She was gone for four months, then called and said "i want you back". We tried it again but, I could tell she still was not 100% in it after a months time. So, I bounced before she could break my heart again. There was also a lot of false promises and fake changes she said(lied) she'd made over the past few months. Words don't mean much to me from a dumper and they mean even less from a cheater!

 

Yeah, you wonder if there is any difference between a dumper and a cheater. Philosophically, of course.

 

When everything is good, they tell you that they love you. Then, all of a sudden, they leave you. How is that not cheating?

[JimmyB26]

I think my ex pre-judged me and my intentions. She's seen so much more than a separated man mourning the breakup of his marriage since she split, and in some ways I don't think she really knew how much I loved her, and how passionately I loved her, until after the breakup. She just never heard it from me when we were together, since I couldn't be there for her 100% and she thought I was more casual about us than I actually intended or felt.

 

I think she truly wants to consider me again at some point, because she experienced a different kind of relationship with me. I'm much older, much more sophisticated, and so different from the guys her own age she'd been with, and she's told me this. She's a senior in college and I'm almost 30, so it makes sense that given the different points in our lives, she knew she'd be engaged to me if she stuck around, so she needs real time to roam and explore. I want to give her that, but she needs to really understand the risk she takes in giving me up - and I'm not sure she's fully willing to, as she knows I'm a catch.

[JimmyB26]

I responded to her card with a note of my own. Put it in the mail this morning. Then I see her on campus, we pass by one another and wave and she tries to stop me, so I wheel around and ask, "What?" But she shuts up and turns back around and continues walking. After I teach my section I text her and tell her that I was in a rush and I really didn't mean to blow her off and it was good to see her.

 

I go to lunch, and I notice her car on the street. She's getting takeout, and I head over and we talk for a minute, but now she's in a rush. She finally sees my text when she's gone and says "It was good to see you too :-)"

 

I told her that I sent her a response to her card, and she said that it was a thank you card and I didn't need to send anything. That was a brilliant move on her part. Sending an emotionally charged, intimate, inappropriate thank you card so that she could claim it was just a thank you.

 

We joked a little, and then I said, "It is good to know that time doesn't change our connection."

 

To which she replied, "agreed"

 

I returned with "For right now though, I know that this is best."

 

She asked, "And what is that?"

 

I said, "Distance, time, space, and perspective."

 

The texting continued on for an hour, trying to find out a couple things about my life.

 

Anyway, here's what the note that I mailed out said, among other things:

 

"I think we both know the role you might want me to play in your life, and I think we both know you aren't really ready for that. So if you have any interest in exploring a real, committed, mature relationship with me in the future, you need to let me go now.

 

When you're ready for the kind of love you know I can give, and you want to seek me out, by all means, get in touch. You have my number and my e-mail, and I can guarantee that I will be as open to considering the possibility as my status allows me to be. But until that time, the memories of all these great times will have to be enough."

 

Not sure what kind of response I'll get, probably asking me to be her friend in the mean time. But I'll be strong.

[CaliGuy]

Personally I would never have sent that. Basically what you have done now is told her she can go sow her wild oats and that you'll be waiting around for her.

 

That's never, ever a good message to send to an ex.

[GrayClouds]

 

 

CaliGuy can I bring you home?

 

Be warned, he is terrible in relationships, but very, very good at relationship advice :laugh::laugh::laugh:(joking)

[alexxx]

Personally I would never have sent that. Basically what you have done now is told her she can go sow her wild oats and that you'll be waiting around for her.

 

That's never, ever a good message to send to an ex.

 

Agree.

 

Notes like this will diminish any chances of her comming back. What you should have done is to try to be a "challenge" instead of being "an open book". One way of being a "challenge" is NC.

 

However, in this particular case, it almost does not matter, because it is too late and the chances of reconciliation were almost zero to begin with.

I say "almost" because one day, when you get over her (and that day will certainly come), you will regret sending a self-disrespectful note like this.

[JimmyB26]

How is this self-disrespectful? It says I'm moving on. It says I'm not waiting around. It says that while I appreciate how unique and significantly I contribute to her happiness, I need to focus on my own. It said that she can't tug on me to keep me around for later on down the road, and she needs to let me go now.

 

It was a polite way of saying "all or nothing, but I'm not waiting around". That's what it means when it says I'll be as open to considering the possibility as my status ALLOWS ME TO BE. It was me leaving with pride, dignity, and as a mature gentleman acting my age. It was me being a leader and telling her goodbye on my terms, goodbye to a girl who said that I'm the only ex she'd consider again because I was so much older, and tried to "friend zone" me in the meantime.

 

She's 22 and let's face it, she deserves to sow her oats. I was lucky enough to give her a taste of what a real man is like, and unfortunately, I ended up hurting her. But she's not going to be any good right now anyway in a real relationship, so she needs a few years. Yeah, we had a false start, but I made a real impression on her at a young age, and I don't blame her for the reasons she split.

 

Fundamentally, we're two people who care about each other, might even love one another, and share an attraction, but she's with someone else. So yeah, while I could be harsh, I don't think that's going to get me anywhere. If she's really been considering me for husband material, baby-daddy material, then this was exactly the right way to go. It's mature, and presumes that I probably won't be single forever.

 

I've done the exact opposite of everything her other exes have done, who still actively beg her to come back. And I've rejected her hope of "many, many years together" in her thank you card.

 

I think a lot of guys on here have tunnel vision, and as much as we all try to understand women, we're grasping at straws. I read it to a couple female friends and they said it was *perfect*, especially the part about being as "open as my status allows". That's what these women jumped on.

 

Losing me to another woman while she sows her oats is essentially the fear that my ex has been experiencing this whole time. That's the reason she gets very jealous about other women. She wants to think I'll be there forever, but I'm not going to be. What's the fault in reminding her that if she waits too long, she'll lose me forever?

[JimmyB26]

I'll add this...

 

NC is at once a healing mechanism and in a secondary mode, the ultimate game-playing way of saying I'm over you so chase me again. One of the reasons that reconciliations based on NC don't usually work out is because the kind of women who respond to total NC are typically the real basketcases who we realize that we never wanted anything to do with again. It is absurd to claim that I should make myself a CHALLENGE by complete NC - please.

 

What have I essentially said?

 

"Stop your game playing to keep me hooked! You're not ready for a man like me and I'm going to head out in the world and find myself a woman. If you grow up and I'm not taken, we can talk about it at some point down the line."

 

And the best part is, she saves what I send her, so at some point she'll come across it and think about it.

 

I fail to see how that's still not challenging. It is direct communication to her stating my non-negotiable terms so she doesn't have to guess - no game playing here anymore. It's saying that I know she's still got it for me and we can do the whole mating dance anew when she's ready for a real man. It'll be up to me then, later, down the line, to draw her in with attraction - but for now, I'm setting boundaries, and I'm respecting the ones that she is SUPPOSED to have but can't seem to maintain.

[CaliGuy]

How is this self-disrespectful? It says I'm moving on. It says I'm not waiting around. It says that while I appreciate how unique and significantly I contribute to her happiness, I need to focus on my own. It said that she can't tug on me to keep me around for later on down the road, and she needs to let me go now.

 

It was a polite way of saying "all or nothing, but I'm not waiting around". That's what it means when it says I'll be as open to considering the possibility as my status ALLOWS ME TO BE. It was me leaving with pride, dignity, and as a mature gentleman acting my age. It was me being a leader and telling her goodbye on my terms, goodbye to a girl who said that I'm the only ex she'd consider again because I was so much older, and tried to "friend zone" me in the meantime.

 

She's 22 and let's face it, she deserves to sow her oats. I was lucky enough to give her a taste of what a real man is like, and unfortunately, I ended up hurting her. But she's not going to be any good right now anyway in a real relationship, so she needs a few years. Yeah, we had a false start, but I made a real impression on her at a young age, and I don't blame her for the reasons she split.

 

Fundamentally, we're two people who care about each other, might even love one another, and share an attraction, but she's with someone else. So yeah, while I could be harsh, I don't think that's going to get me anywhere. If she's really been considering me for husband material, baby-daddy material, then this was exactly the right way to go. It's mature, and presumes that I probably won't be single forever.

 

I've done the exact opposite of everything her other exes have done, who still actively beg her to come back. And I've rejected her hope of "many, many years together" in her thank you card.

 

I think a lot of guys on here have tunnel vision, and as much as we all try to understand women, we're grasping at straws. I read it to a couple female friends and they said it was *perfect*, especially the part about being as "open as my status allows". That's what these women jumped on.

 

Losing me to another woman while she sows her oats is essentially the fear that my ex has been experiencing this whole time. That's the reason she gets very jealous about other women. She wants to think I'll be there forever, but I'm not going to be. What's the fault in reminding her that if she waits too long, she'll lose me forever?

 

Because you told her "When you are ready to try again...." or something to that extent. That is essentially telling her that you'll take her back in the future -- if she wants you.

 

This IS disrespectful to yourself.

This does NOT say you are moving on. On the contray, it says you are HANGING ON.

 

I don't see that you're proving to her you're moving on. To prove that, you simply STOP COMMUNICATING with her. That is ACTION that says "I'm done..."

 

You don't TELL someone you are moving on. You simply DO IT.

[alexxx]

How is this self-disrespectful? It says I'm moving on. It says I'm not waiting around. It says that while I appreciate how unique and significantly I contribute to her happiness, I need to focus on my own. It said that she can't tug on me to keep me around for later on down the road, and she needs to let me go now.

 

Why do you need to wait for her to "let you go"? You are asking her to decide what to do with your life. That's being weak.

 

We might know very little about women, but we DO know that they like strong men.

 

It was a polite way of saying "all or nothing, but I'm not waiting around". That's what it means when it says I'll be as open to considering the possibility as my status ALLOWS ME TO BE.

 

Again, you are letting her make decisions about some of the most important things in your life: love, relationship, marriage,... I would never give a woman that much power (well, maybe once you get married, you start compromising more, but that's a different story).

 

In fact, you wouldn't believe; women don't like having that much power, themselves. They want YOU to lead. If you don't believe, ask them right here on this forum.

 

If she's really been considering me for husband material, baby-daddy material, then this was exactly the right way to go. It's mature, and presumes that I probably won't be single forever.

[\QUOTE]

 

I don't understand this whole concept of "marriage material". I see it all over the place, on this board and every other forum. People use this expression all the time. I still don't get it.

 

Look, she will not (in her right mind) marry you because you are "marriage material". She will only marry you if she LOVES YOU.

 

In fact, ironically, you, yourself, wouldn't want her to marry you for just being "marriage material". You need your future wife to "love you", instead.

[\QUOTE]

 

I've done the exact opposite of everything her other exes have done, who still actively beg her to come back. And I've rejected her hope of "many, many years together" in her thank you card.

[\QUOTE]

 

To tell you the truth, I have to disagree again. You didn't reject her hope; quite opposite, you told her that you are waiting for her with open arms.

 

I read it to a couple female friends and they said it was *perfect*, especially the part about being as "open as my status allows". That's what these women jumped on.

[\QUOTE]

 

I agree that it was "perfect" in their views. But this is woman's perspective. It is perfect for your female friends because they would very much like to receive a similar note from somebody. I don't blame them for that. A note like that puts them on pedestal, gives them "power", provides "validation".

 

However, I personally would never ask a woman for advice about a relationship. I have read somewhere that "a woman knows what she wants" but "doesn't know what she needs". So, they can be thousand times smarter than us, but cannot give us good advice, no matter how sincere they are. Now, they can probably provide a great advice to their girlfriends, but not to you. I think the same is true for men. No matter how much I tried talking to my sister about her relationship, she wouldn't even listen to me.

 

What's the fault in reminding her that if she waits too long, she'll lose me forever?

 

It is out of touch with reality. She isn't waiting, she left you for another guy.

[JimmyB26]

I appreciate the advice that you're doling out at me, though I have to suggest that it's a rather limited interpretation of what I wrote to her.

 

I did not respond for over three weeks, and finally I got that card where she went over the top - to the point that a male friend of mine read it and said that if he'd seen his girlfriend writing that to an ex, he'd end it in a second.

 

I'd let go, as indicated by the weeks I did not respond, the dating I've been doing, all the other things I've been focused on, and she hadn't let go of me. Hence, I said, if you want me to consider you later, you need to let go of me now. It was about space. It was about me confidently or arrogantly assuming that she still wanted me in some way and simply wanted to control the terms of if and when it would happen, that she WOULD eventually get in touch, and then it would be my choice.

 

I also did say "When you're ready" but all I told her to do was GET IN TOUCH. No guarantees of anything on my side. She can get in touch, and as I said, I'll be open to CONSIDERING the possibility if I'm single at the time. She's not going to be reading this note just once, so I know I had to get the wording precise. I can't control if and when she gets in touch, but I can, as I indicated, control my response.

 

I went on to say in the note that I would be fine either way.

 

I believe that this indicates true strength. She tried to rein me in and place me back under her control and terms. I rejected that and served her with my own terms, but in doing so, I was brave and forward, and honestly indicated where I stood. This, more than the "action" of NC, indicates that I'm fine with the breakup and she hasn't done damage to the point where I'm so hurt that I would never consider it again. Now I can back it up with NC, but she knows where I stand and she can choose to play by my rules or not at all.

[BCCA]

I learned a few things from my last relationship that will probably really help you. You sound a lot like I was when I got here, trying to do the right thing, but maybe not for all the right reasons.

 

First, guys who women see as marrige material? They dont let those guys go, period. I think she does see you as marrige material, but for someone else. I ran your theory by my psychologist, because thats what I wanted to believe, and he told me the very thought of it was nonsensical. Women seek out and KEEP the best mates, she wouldnt need to be wild and crazy without you if she had any intentions on actually marrying you at some point. Its BS

 

I also did say "When you're ready" but all I told her to do was GET IN TOUCH. No guarantees of anything on my side. She can get in touch, and as I said, I'll be open to CONSIDERING the possibility if I'm single at the time. She's not going to be reading this note just once, so I know I had to get the wording precise. I can't control if and when she gets in touch, but I can, as I indicated, control my response.

 

Yeah, but youre still giving her the assurance youll want to talk to her, and she CAN get in touch with you whenever she wants. Thats not good, she shouldnt be able to come and go as she pleases. 'Bye' is about all you needed to say.

 

I went on to say in the note that I would be fine either way.

 

Yeah, but she isnt going to but that. If that was the case, you wouldnt bother responding to a note that didnt warrant a response. Also, see how she gave you all those pics back? Why do you think she did that? Answer, she doesnt want them.

 

Now I can back it up with NC, but she knows where I stand and she can choose to play by my rules or not at all.

 

As long as she can still come and get a response out of you, when she doesnt deserve one, youre still playing by her rules.

[alexxx]

First, guys who women see as marrige material? They dont let those guys go, period. I think she does see you as marrige material, but for someone else.

 

Let's drop the term "marriage material" altogether!

 

I understand that we live in a money driven, high tech society, but I still think that most relationships are driven and fueled by LOVE and NOT by whether somebody is "marriage material".

 

Sure, there will be always people who get into a relationship and marriage because that is in their best *interest*. But they are minority and thus not worth mentioning.

 

The expression "marriage material" is aslo misleading as it gives a false hope to someone that if he works on himself on becoming "a better person" (another term I hate), then the dumper will somehow recognize it and make a complete turnaround (and come back). This is wrong because people do not fall in love with somebody because he/she is successful, makes a lot of money, goes to gym (which are definitely all good and sometimes contributing attributes) but because they LIKE THEM, CLICK WITH THEM, LOVE AT FIRST SITE WITH THEM.

 

Lets not try to quantify something that is not countable.

[BCCA]

Let's drop the term "marriage material" altogether!

 

The phrase simply means someone they would marry.

 

I understand that we live in a money driven, high tech society, but I still think that most relationships are driven and fueled by LOVE and NOT by whether somebody is "marriage material".

 

I never mentioned money at all. Its certainly fueled by love, but someone can love you and think youre great, but not the person they want to marry.

 

Sure, there will be always people who get into a relationship and marriage because that is in their best *interest*. But they are minority and thus not worth mentioning.

 

Everyone who has a gf/bf/wife/husband would take an exact replica of that person with more money. I disagree that people dont find money attractive in general, and those that flock to it are the minority. Ill give that a small percentage are total 'gold diggers', but like I said, everyone likes the security money gives.

 

The expression "marriage material" is aslo misleading as it gives a false hope to someone that if he works on himself on becoming "a better person" (another term I hate), then the dumper will somehow recognize it and make a complete turnaround (and come back). This is wrong because people do not fall in love with somebody because he/she is successful, makes a lot of money, goes to gym (which are definitely all good and sometimes contributing attributes) but because they LIKE THEM, CLICK WITH THEM, LOVE AT FIRST SITE WITH THEM.

 

I dont see how it gives any hope, it means she doesnt want to marry you. If a girl doesnt see marrying you in the future, bye bye. Thats it, done, over, fin. Read any post Ive ever made, I never say women are going to come back. Chances are far more likely that they will not, and you should just let it go and move on. I never once encouraged him to better himself, or do anything for that matter, in an effort to reclaim her.

 

And people DO fall in love with somebody because they are succesful, have a lot of money, and go to the gym.

 

Lets not try to quantify something that is not countable

 

I qualified 'marrige material' above as someone a particular woman would marry. That is countable.

[JimmyB26]

I didn't want to incite anything here.

 

First of all BCCA, to correct you - she enclosed copies of pictures that she took with her digital camera. Not getting rid of printouts - she went and had them printed out to enclose and remind me about them. Even wrote on the back of them.

 

Look, this girl got involved with me while I was still MARRIED, but separated, and hadn't really been dating in years. I showed her the best of the city, wined and dined her, gave her some of the best sex of her young life, and of course since I was older, "domesticated", and settled, and months away from finishing a PhD and stood to be financially lucrative - yeah, I'm sure she thought that as soon as the divorce became official, I'd want to hit the ground running with her. She even said she thought we'd be engaged in a couple of years and just didn't think she was ready, but that I was different from her former boyfriends - and the only one she'd reconsider.

 

And let's be honest - she's a senior in college, and I'm almost 30. Just like any senior in college, she wouldn't want to be tied down. I don't care how in love with someone a person is, they need time to find themselves and grow. I married one young woman three years ago who wasn't ready and thought that marriage would magically solve all her unknowns about life without really knowing who she was - and guess what? I'm divorced now. So yeah, I want this one to be ready, if it's her. So I - not only her - think it's not such a great idea for right this minute. That doesn't mean I'm going to get stuck being a friend.

 

One of her biggest fears was that I just was not over my ex-wife and my divorce. I think that, more than anything, scared her the most. She saw how affected I was upon signing the divorce papers, and during the weekend before I appeared in court to make it official, and whereas she's always been of the mind that I should feel no regrets, I was a little somber and sad. So yeah, she had been talking to this guy, but the reason she ended it was because she sensed that I needed to mourn my loss. And when I went NC, I pushed her straight towards someone else.

 

This one knows I'm a catch. Up until I cut her off with NC this last time, she knew the kind of dating I've started doing and how many women are interested in me. Marriage material is more because in her mind, having been someone who's been down that path already, I'm more likely to want to do the whole thing again with experience than live a life of solitude bedding girl after girl for the rest of my life.

 

Now yeah, she found someone else and eased me out - but guess what? I did the EXACT SAME THING to my apologetic, cheating ex-wife when this one showed up. So can I really blame her, especially at a young age, when she's insecure and prone to making some mistakes, for not knowing exactly what she wants? She's not supposed to. In fact, if she stuck by me and never explored herself and saw other people, I'd be a little concerned that I was just a default instead of the one she wants - but if she finds out that the grass isn't greener and returns, well I'd respect her for making an informed decision.

 

I have no doubt in my mind that she sees a future with me, between the verbal and written references to many years together, the humorous discussions about kids' names, type of weddings, even asking me how my parents felt when I told them I was seeing her. But right now, being someone who is looking at grad schools, juggling senior year in college and a job, and doesn't even know what city she'll be in for the next few years, she could stand to deal with a less intense relationship - long distance. It's just more the point that she doesn't want anyone else to snag me until she's ready to give it a real try.

 

I really have no spite for her, no animus, no resentment. Do I trust her completely? No, that's earned. Would I go back into it as easily? Absolutely not - she's got her work cut out for her with me. But I do not disrespect her need to find herself, because I need to find myself again as well.

 

Anyway, us living less than two miles apart, the mail can't be so slow that she hadn't gotten what I sent her on Tuesday by this past weekend. So she's obviously read what I had to say.

 

Yesterday I'm walking to the subway, on my phone, and I see her in her car, driving past. I nod and just continue, and about a minute later I get a text, saying:

 

"Look at you multitasking, walking and talking simultaneously. :-) And you're not even tripping over yourself! Man, I miss you!"

 

I'm guessing that it's a combination of curiosity and jealousy over who I might be talking to, combined with perceived rejection and genuine longing. Or she's testing me to see how serious I am and trying to battle for control. Or she wants to signal that she's still there and not to forget about her. Or she's just so confused by my response she doesn't know what to do with me. Either way, I didn't respond.

 

It's just unfathomable at this point why she would even be bothering to contact me now, when I've laid all my cards out honestly, told her where I stand and what my terms are, unless she's still harboring serious feelings.

 

Like I've said before, the best relationships do not need backburner or backup material. In her heart she has to already know that if she's making an effort to keep me around, this current relationship is not perfect and is probably not going to be the one that she wants.

[alexxx]

The phrase simply means someone they would marry.

 

Still, I find that "marriage material" sounds awkward. I wouldn't mind using that expression if this was a "home repair" or "gardening" forum, but we talk about human relationships and love. That is an important difference.

 

Think about a discussion on DIY boards where the posters are using terms such as "romantic hammer" or "an attractive 2x4 plywood", etc.. That's how I feel every time I read "marriage material" here.

 

I never mentioned money at all. Its certainly fueled by love, but someone can love you and think youre great, but not the person they want to marry.

 

I definitely don't agree with this. If they do not want to marry you then they don't love you. Period. Unless, by "love", we mean different things. To me, "love" is unconditional. In other words, you can love only one person at a time and you would do ANYTHING for that person (marrying goes without saying). If you are familiar with this feeling, but still think that this is not what "love" means, then we need to look for another english word to describe the state of mind I am talking about.

 

Everyone who has a gf/bf/wife/husband would take an exact replica of that person with more money. I disagree that people dont find money attractive in general, and those that flock to it are the minority. Ill give that a small percentage are total 'gold diggers', but like I said, everyone likes the security money gives.

 

I agree with your first sentence, but only philosophically. Replicas don't exist in real life.

 

I agree with the rest of your paragraph too, but this doesn't contradict any of my statements. I never said that "people don't find money attractive". Money is important, but it is NO MORE OR LESS IMPORTANT than health, level of education, looks, etc. In other words, money is NOT ENOUGH. Otherwise, all love in this world would concentrate around several people, which is obviously not the case. In fact, NOTHING IS ENOUGH, no matter how hard you try. There are many people in this world with money, health, education that still miserably fail in love and get dumped. This is because love is irrational, there is no recipe for success.

 

I dont see how it gives any hope, it means she doesnt want to marry you. If a girl doesnt see marrying you in the future, bye bye. Thats it, done, over, fin. Read any post Ive ever made, I never say women are going to come back. Chances are far more likely that they will not, and you should just let it go and move on. I never once encouraged him to better himself, or do anything for that matter, in an effort to reclaim her.

 

We are on the same page here.

 

And people DO fall in love with somebody because they are succesful, have a lot of money, and go to the gym.

 

No! THERE ALWAYS HAS TO BE SOMETHING ELSE. Something irrational, no matter how small, but definitely there.

 

If you don't agree with me, try to enumerate all reasons why you fell in love last time. I'll bet you money that you wont be able to count all reasons. Why? Because you can't describe this little piece that I am talking about. That little piece (that only she and nobody else has) is why you found that person special.

[BCCA]

Still, I find that "marriage material" sounds awkward. I wouldn't mind using that expression if this was a "home repair" or "gardening" forum, but we talk about human relationships and love. That is an important difference.

 

I think you are vastly over complicating it. I qualified it before, I just mean if you are someone that person would marry. Its fairly simple, if I would marry you, you are marrige material. It's not an exact feature or set of features, everyone is different, and considers different factors. Dont let the word 'material' throw you off, Im not talking about concrete or drywall

 

I definitely don't agree with this. If they do not want to marry you then they don't love you. Period. Unless, by "love", we mean different things. To me, "love" is unconditional. In other words, you can love only one person at a time and you would do ANYTHING for that person (marrying goes without saying). If you are familiar with this feeling, but still think that this is not what "love" means, then we need to look for another english word to describe the state of mind I am talking about.

 

Do you want to marry your brother, mom, aunt, pet, or best friend? Of course not, but you can love those people unconditionally. By your definition, no one who is broken up ever loved anyone, because they obviously have conditions on it. Do you still love a spouse who cheats and leaves you 5 years later? I'd like to think not.

 

Unconditional love only comes via blood, IMO. Even a spouse, you can love them with all your heart, but if they run off with their secertary and stick you with the bills, youre going to start feeling differently...

 

I agree with your first sentence, but only philosophically. Replicas don't exist in real life.

 

Its a hypothetical that proves my point; money matters.

 

I agree with the rest of your paragraph too, but this doesn't contradict any of my statements. I never said that "people don't find money attractive". Money is important, but it is NO MORE OR LESS IMPORTANT than health, level of education, looks, etc. In other words, money is NOT ENOUGH. Otherwise, all love in this world would concentrate around several people, which is obviously not the case. In fact, NOTHING IS ENOUGH, no matter how hard you try. There are many people in this world with money, health, education that still miserably fail in love and get dumped. This is because love is irrational, there is no recipe for success.

 

I agree with you to a certain extent, but youre missing the true meaning of what I was saying. There is no one thing that causes someone to fall in love, but if I was honestly making a list, I would say money and looks are by far the biggest factors people use when chosing a mate. Love is irrational, which is why asking people what they want is pointless. They are going to say 'sweet, thoughtful, funny, full of life, cheerful, etc' and then end up with a total bitch with big boobs or a total douche bag that drives a porsche. What people LIKE and what they RESPOND to are very different.

 

No! THERE ALWAYS HAS TO BE SOMETHING ELSE. Something irrational, no matter how small, but definitely there.

 

Ok, Im not talking about Jaba the Hut with money here, but if there was two guys who were similar in all ways, except one had more money, the one with more cash would be the more attractive.

 

 

I'll bet you money that you wont be able to count all reasons. Why?

 

Ok, Im a guy. I found a girl I thought was hot, she wasnt a total bitch, we got along well, had similar interests, similar political views, she liked sex as much as me, and she was cool with watching sports if I was cool with watching trash sometimes. Men operate much simpler than you might think, we require very little outside of being attractive and enjoyable to be around.

[alexxx]

I think you are vastly over complicating it. I qualified it before, I just mean if you are someone that person would marry. Its fairly simple, if I would marry you, you are marrige material. It's not an exact feature or set of features, everyone is different, and considers different factors. Dont let the word 'material' throw you off, Im not talking about concrete or drywall

 

That was convincing, I won't complain anymore.

 

Do you want to marry your brother, mom, aunt, pet, or best friend? Of course not, but you can love those people unconditionally.

 

I don't like your reasoning here. You know that I wasn't talking about relatives or pets, I was talking about the love between a man and a woman. I hate to say this, but I think you are diluting topic in lieu of a solid argument. Not intentionally (I hope), but, still, we need to stay focused on the topic instead of being concerned about winning an argument.

 

By your definition, no one who is broken up ever loved anyone, because they obviously have conditions on it. Do you still love a spouse who cheats and leaves you 5 years later? I'd like to think not.

 

Of course people fall out of love all the time. Nobody (in his right mind_ would argue otherwise. The point I was making is that one can love only one person at a time and (while it lasts) the love is unconditional.

 

Unconditional love only comes via blood, IMO. Even a spouse, you can love them with all your heart, but if they run off with their secertary and stick you with the bills, youre going to start feeling differently...

 

I have no problem with your last statemeent. Some people, at some point, for whatever reason, fall out of love, I agree.

 

I do not agree that unconditional love comes via blood though. There are so many examples of brothers and sisters who care less about each other. I personally know tons of these people.

 

However, I don't want this discussion going off the tangent, since the subject here are not family relationships.

 

Its a hypothetical that proves my point; money matters.

 

Are you sure you are talking about love and not sex?

 

Money matters to women, that's true. But I say "money" not "the person holding the money". Now comes the tricky part. To get access to the money, a woman has to be very (very!) close to the person holding the money, giving him false impression that he matters.

 

Now, if your main goal is to "score a hot woman" and "try and see where it leads", then who cares. You win! But I need to know what are we talking about here, LOVE OR ATTRACTION, SEX, ETC..

 

There is no one thing that causes someone to fall in love, but if I was honestly making a list, I would say money and looks are by far the biggest factors people use when chosing a mate.

 

C'mon BCCA, I know that you dont think that. Why then bother visiting this board and giving (asking for) advice with second chances? There are many advertising Web sites where you can post an ad and say that you are looking for a rich and beautiful woman ... If you do your homework, post a nice photo, be careful about choosing words and are patient enough, one of them will come along and you'll be done with it! If that is what you want, you are a fairly simple guy.

 

Ok, Im not talking about Jaba the Hut with money here, but if there was two guys who were similar in all ways, except one had more money, the one with more cash would be the more attractive.

 

Again, no!

 

His MONEY is what is attractive, not him!

 

Ok, Im a guy. I found a girl I thought was hot, she wasnt a total bitch, we got along well, had similar interests, similar political views, she liked sex as much as me, and she was cool with watching sports if I was cool with watching trash sometimes. Men operate much simpler than you might think, we require very little outside of being attractive and enjoyable to be around.

 

The last sentence is what I was waiting for. If this is the context of our discussion, I will give you credit for everything you have said thus far, but I think you are mixing apples and oranges.

 

You say, "...we require very little outside of being attractive and enjoyable to be around..".

 

I am a guy too, but I require much, much more than that! Having said that, I am also aware that we are all different. So, if above is your definition of love than YOU ARE CORRECT! MONEY CAN BUY LOVE!

[BCCA]

I hate to say this, but I think you are diluting topic in lieu of a solid argument. Not intentionally (I hope), but, still, we need to stay focused on the topic instead of being concerned about winning an argument.

 

You do realize that youre counter argument was that I was dillutiong the topic instead of making a solid arugment? Thats pretty much a cop out.

 

My point is that unconditional love means no matter what, while you have already agreed with me that people fall out of love, ergo - NOT no matter what. You're mis-using the term 'unconditional'.

 

Are you sure you are talking about love and not sex?

 

To fall in love is to have a deep and meaningful attraction to another person. Money is attractive. Like I said, you have two women who are about even in every other way, except one has a lot of money; who are you taking? Youre pretending like you wouldnt find someone with more money more attractive, and I disagree. Obviously, you could meet someone who is poor and fall in love, too, but like i said - if all things were equal, I have to think you would take the rich woman.

 

C'mon BCCA, I know that you dont think that. Why then bother visiting this board and giving (asking for) advice with second chances? There are many advertising Web sites where you can post an ad and say that you are looking for a rich and beautiful woman ... If you do your homework, post a nice photo, be careful about choosing words and are patient enough, one of them will come along and you'll be done with it! If that is what you want, you are a fairly simple guy.

 

Yeah, Im sure rich beautiful women need to post on websites to get men...

 

Come on, you want an ugly broke chick? This is just silly. This has nothing to do with second chances, its about using common sense. Someone who has more money is attractive than someone who does not, bottom line. Im not saying thats the ONLY factor, but those who are rich and good looking tend to live pretty succesful lives.

 

I am a guy too, but I require much, much more than that! Having said that, I am also aware that we are all different. So, if above is your definition of love than YOU ARE CORRECT! MONEY CAN BUY LOVE!

 

So if you met a rich, hot woman, who wasnt a total idiot or a complete bitch, you would make sure she wanted to watch Battlestar Galactica with you before you were interested? Come on...

[JimmyB26]

I just LOVE having my thread hijacked! It's such an awesome feeling. If either one of the two of you would bother to consider my last post, you might get a better sense of the meaning that I had behind "marriage material".

 

I do think that that text she sent Monday is an indication that she understands my terms and my intent to control my own destiny, be firm, strong, and confident, but is testing to see exactly how far I'll take it. She wants to see if I'll bend to her whim, or if she'll actually have to do some work this time.

[BCCA]

I just LOVE having my thread hijacked! It's such an awesome feeling. If either one of the two of you would bother to consider my last post, you might get a better sense of the meaning that I had behind "marriage material".

 

It wasnt intentional, but sometimes these things happen. My apologies.

 

I do think that that text she sent Monday is an indication that she understands my terms and my intent to control my own destiny, be firm, strong, and confident, but is testing to see exactly how far I'll take it. She wants to see if I'll bend to her whim, or if she'll actually have to do some work this time.

 

I think your reading entirely too much into it, and making excuses for her along the way.

 

"Look at you multitasking, walking and talking simultaneously. :-) And you're not even tripping over yourself! Man, I miss you!"

 

I'm guessing that it's a combination of curiosity and jealousy over who I might be talking to, combined with perceived rejection and genuine longing.

 

Where do you get any jealousy over who you might be talking to out of that? To me, that plainly states 'you'll be alright without me'.

[JimmyB26]

 

Where do you get any jealousy over who you might be talking to out of that? To me, that plainly states 'you'll be alright without me'.

 

I would agree with you on your assessment if she hadn't been trying for weeks to get in touch with me and get me to respond. But she has. I would agree with you if she didn't add "Man, I miss you!" at the end there. But she did.

 

To tell her that yeah, I'd consider taking her back if she's lucky enough to catch me when I happen to be single one week, and then see me on the phone next week, barely giving her recognition, the "look at you" and teasing is an overcompensating cover for someone who's INSECURE AND UPSET about the fact that I WILL be alright without her. She doesn't want me to be. That's why she tried to reel me in with the "I miss you" and see if she could get me to give up my terms and coax me back to her terms. This is entirely about control.

[BCCA]

Ugh, where to start...

 

"Man, I miss you!" doesnt sound at all affectionate to me. It sounds like what you say to a coworker you havent seen for a while on facebook.

 

I would agree with you on your assessment if she hadn't been trying for weeks to get in touch with me

 

At ANY point did she say she made a huge mistake and wants you back? If not, guess what - she just wants to pretend youre still cool so she doesnt feel as guilty. I know, youre telling yourself 'no, she wouldnt try that hard unless she is really missing you', but Ive seen hundreds of stories just like this, and if someone wants you back, they SAY JUST THAT. All this 'interpretations' youre doing are pointless.

 

To tell her that yeah, I'd consider taking her back if she's lucky enough to catch me when I happen to be single one week, and then see me on the phone next week, barely giving her recognition

 

This sounds like utter BS and she knows it. It sounds to everyone here like youre trying to play tough, but would take her back instantly if she asked you to. And you gave her recognition, the amount is moot.

 

the "look at you" and teasing is an overcompensating cover for someone who's INSECURE AND UPSET about the fact that I WILL be alright without her.

 

It sounds like nothing of the sort. It sounds like someone saying 'youll be ok without me' like I said. Where do you even get this from, how does that sound insecure? And you will be alright without her, as soon as you accept that its over and heal so you can move on.

 

She doesn't want me to be

 

Well she wants to know that you dont hate her, thats it. She feels guilty, hence the 'youll be fine' comments.

 

That's why she tried to reel me in with the "I miss you" and see if she could get me to give up my terms and coax me back to her terms. This is entirely about control.

 

Listen man, you can do this two ways:

 

1. You can pretend like you know her so well, that your skewed interpretations of everything she does, which just so happens to exactly fit into what you want to believe, is accurate. You can argue with anyone who says anything besides 'omg she is coming back, and so wants you', you can disregard the advice of people who have litterally seen hundreds of posts just like this, and you can bury your head in the sand and live a dream.

 

2. Deal in reality; she left you, its over. If she comes back, cross that bridge when you come to it. But stop talking to her, stop over analyzing every word she says, and stop pretending like you know exactly what she thinks/feels. The text she gave you was SO not what youre making it out to be its not even funny, but Ive been in your shoes before, and I know how the mind races. Listen man, as one guy to another, let this one go and move on. Its not worth the effort and emotional drain. Youre just making it harder on yourself for no reason.

[alexxx]

JimmyB26, I too think that you are being unrealistic. I do not blame you though, because this is a general pattern. If you don't believe me, read stories on this board.

 

This is what's happening with you:

 

Your conclusions are correct (this is why you are confused), BUT they are based on the wrong hypothesis. Your assumption is that this girl is trying to win you over. She is not trying to do that. Quite opposite, she left you for another guy. Her behavior is commonly seen and can be easily explained by the following two:

 

1. she is playing with you (girls do this all the time, they need validation)

 

2. she wants to make sure you are not mad at her (nobody wants to have enemies).

 

Both of her actions you greatly misinterpret.

 

I am unable to give you any other advise but to wake up!