Wife says she doesn't love me "that way" any more

[etrain1234]

mem...Everything you posted makes sense. It's just so damn hard to back off right now when I don't know what the hell is going through her head.

 

If I DON'T give her all the things she's mentioned before...being more affectionate, spontaneous, complementary, helping out more etc...then I'm feeding into her perceptions that things won't ever change.

 

When I DO change my behavior by doing those things, she doesn't respond & I feel like a doormat who's trying too hard & getting nowhere.

 

It's an impossible balancing act. I need to get MY life back but I don't know how to do it.

 

She's shown no signs of being interested in me at all...let along being willing to chase me...or work on anything marriage related, for that matter. It's completely one sided right now and it sucks.

 

I'll try my best to "back off" over the next couple days. Then we have MC on Tues, where I hope to bring up all of these issues.

 

(and no response from my W yet regarding evil FB friends question about whether W thinks there's "future potential" or if she feels an attraction toward the OM.)

[Toodamnpragmatic]

You had a date night ofter D day!!!!! You caught her denigrating you and your marriage and flirting and maybe more with a married male and you go confront her and she basically has not acknowledged it or done anything to apologize from what I can tell.

 

Add to that you do a 'Date Night' and she won't let you hold her f%$#ing hand!!!

 

You have to basically ignore her, go about your business, help around the house, carry your weight in this partnership, but she should be the one apologizing and explaining herself.

 

You better be prepared for Tuesday and the MC, and get some answers.

 

Her actions on your "date" were reprehensible....

[Chrome Barracuda]

It's all gonna boil down to an ultimatum. This woman and her behavior is taking a toll on the marriage. She's not being affectionate with you because of other people in her head whispering the grass is greener, no doubt. But alos remember with this bad friend influencing her your wife will get worse. This friend goes or you go. but if she stays she has to go NC with the OM and the toxic friend. She's not a friend of the marriage, then she has no right to be there.

 

If I was you I have her served and let her know why, let her see that the grass isnt greener. Miserable Women tend to find other women who they want to see miserable too. She think she's a friend, she's no friend to you buddy...

 

Bottom line your wife needs to snap outta it and really see your not playing around and you will definitely divorce her if you need to.

 

You also have to stop with all this building, stop chasing, 180 time and stay away from her... I'd be fed up already if I was you.

 

I'm telling you I seen it time and again women have these no good friends and they ruin everything! lol.

[mem11363]

I realize this is a very, very hard time and am sorry for your pain.

 

I think you said it just right when you mentioned it being so one sided. Are you able to sit her down and have a short - and you need to keep it short - conversation that goes something like this.

 

You already know I am willing to work hard to make this work. I do think there is one thing though that might not be so clear to you. I have no interest in trying to push on a string. This will only work if we are BOTH committed. So tell me, are you willing to commit to making our marriage work, and if so what do you think you need to do for it to succeed?

 

Because if she doesn't "offer" to give up all communication with OM, I think the best thing you can do is remove yourself from playing the role of "security blanket". She has no idea what will happen with him, but right now if he is plan A, you are a solid plan B. The thing is women don't sleep with Plan B guys, they do take their money, let the guys clean the house/cook for them, shop for them, take them on expensive dates, etc.

 

I would say that in the process they also take the man's pride, but those are the words of a victim. I would say that the man voluntarily gives her his pride and self esteem until he becomes empty inside.

 

You need to tell her in a nice voice that plan B - is not a platonic relationship with a guy desperately seeking approval (which is you), Plan B is she is a single Mom struggling to pay the bills every month.

 

 

 

mem...Everything you posted makes sense. It's just so damn hard to back off right now when I don't know what the hell is going through her head.

 

If I DON'T give her all the things she's mentioned before...being more affectionate, spontaneous, complementary, helping out more etc...then I'm feeding into her perceptions that things won't ever change.

 

When I DO change my behavior by doing those things, she doesn't respond & I feel like a doormat who's trying too hard & getting nowhere.

 

It's an impossible balancing act. I need to get MY life back but I don't know how to do it.

 

She's shown no signs of being interested in me at all...let along being willing to chase me...or work on anything marriage related, for that matter. It's completely one sided right now and it sucks.

 

I'll try my best to "back off" over the next couple days. Then we have MC on Tues, where I hope to bring up all of these issues.

 

(and no response from my W yet regarding evil FB friends question about whether W thinks there's "future potential" or if she feels an attraction toward the OM.)

[etrain1234]

You are ALL right. I am being tortured here.

I need to think long & hard about what I'm going to say in MC. I'm going to work on making a list. I think that's the only way I'll be able to organize my thoughts.

I feel like so much is riding on this first MC session with a counselor we haven't even met yet.

 

And no more sucking up. I deserve more respect that what I've been getting...which is basically none.

Don't give up on me, guys. I'm reading all your advice & doing my best to follow it. It's just so damn hard sometimes.

Thanks.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

You are ALL right. I am being tortured here.

I need to think long & hard about what I'm going to say in MC. I'm going to work on making a list. I think that's the only way I'll be able to organize my thoughts.

I feel like so much is riding on this first MC session with a counselor we haven't even met yet.

 

And no more sucking up. I deserve more respect that what I've been getting...which is basically none.

Don't give up on me, guys. I'm reading all your advice & doing my best to follow it. It's just so damn hard sometimes.

Thanks.

 

Good, make a list, don't hold anything back. Tell the counselor exactly what you know. Take the list and a pen and tick it off as the session progresses and take notes.

 

Also if you aren't happy, call the EAP again. The EAP I promise is 100% confidential (unless it is life threatening and Police need to be called) and the company knows absolutely nothing. Blocking the site is separate and sorry about that.

 

You have to 'til Tuesday ignore your wife (i.e. no emotional comments or attempts to be physical, unless she initiates). You help around the house and be a great partner.

 

However go to the park, a bar to watch football, see friends..... Don't play the sad puppy game.

 

Good Luck.

[mem11363]

If it were me - I would go do a huge cardio workout - think about how angry I was while I workout. It will make the rest of the day a little easier.

 

TDP is giving you great advice including the EAP - that stuff really is treated confidentially. And what he/we are telling you is what will maximize your chance of actually having a viable marriage.

 

The MOST powerful posture you can present to her is the most difficult. You need to seem calm and indifferent. If you succeed she will reach out to you. PREPARE yourself. She will eventually do that to see if she can still get you to react. If she reaches out for you - step back and say "when I hear you tell me you are committed to making this work - we can touch each other. Until I hear you say that, mean it and show it in your actions regarding other men - I prefer to not be touched by you." AND you need to BELIEVE THAT. Her touching you will just be to reassure herself that you are still a solid plan B.

 

Do NOT do chores in front of her. It smacks of trying to score points. Do your fair share nothing more.

 

 

 

Good, make a list, don't hold anything back. Tell the counselor exactly what you know. Take the list and a pen and tick it off as the session progresses and take notes.

 

Also if you aren't happy, call the EAP again. The EAP I promise is 100% confidential (unless it is life threatening and Police need to be called) and the company knows absolutely nothing. Blocking the site is separate and sorry about that.

 

You have to 'til Tuesday ignore your wife (i.e. no emotional comments or attempts to be physical, unless she initiates). You help around the house and be a great partner.

 

However go to the park, a bar to watch football, see friends..... Don't play the sad puppy game.

 

Good Luck.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

If it were me - I would go do a huge cardio workout - think about how angry I was while I workout. It will make the rest of the day a little easier.

 

TDP is giving you great advice including the EAP - that stuff really is treated confidentially. And what he/we are telling you is what will maximize your chance of actually having a viable marriage.

 

The MOST powerful posture you can present to her is the most difficult. You need to seem calm and indifferent. If you succeed she will reach out to you. PREPARE yourself. She will eventually do that to see if she can still get you to react. If she reaches out for you - step back and say "when I hear you tell me you are committed to making this work - we can touch each other. Until I hear you say that, mean it and show it in your actions regarding other men - I prefer to not be touched by you." AND you need to BELIEVE THAT. Her touching you will just be to reassure herself that you are still a solid plan B.

 

Do NOT do chores in front of her. It smacks of trying to score points. Do your fair share nothing more.

 

 

When I said do chores, I meant exactly what is fair.... Yes go workout, run, have a beer witgh friends and watch football (if a fan)....

 

At the MC, maintain an even keel and choose your words and action carefully. Ask the MC questions about your wife's reactions. Do not be a victim. Ask her who else she confides in and whether this secret about your marriage is a talking point with her circle of friends.

 

Ask why she hasn't talked to you about this or tried to make things better (before this other male). Ask her what she needs to do to make it better (not you and the fairytale ideal she has).

[The Collector]

Date night went pretty well, IMO. The couples' massage was definitely a hit. We really needed that. Afterwards, we had dinner and did some window shopping. We got along well. The only hiccup I can think of was when I tried to playfully hold my W's hand on the walk from the car to the restaurant & she said, "I'm not ready for that yet."

Oh well.

 

It still feels very one sided with me doing all the work to save this M...but that's not going to stop me from trying.

One sour note for today. For some reason my Ws evil FB friend is determined to see our M end. I told you how they IM'd each other discussing my W's internet flirting the other night. Well now this woman is excusing my W's behavior by saying, well, it's hard to not give in to getting such positive attention. And asking my wife if there's a potential future with this OM & if she's attracted to him.

 

Way to encourage my W to have an affair! My God! If this is the kind of "advice" my W is getting, we don't stand a chance.

 

Now I get to sit back & wait for my W's response. Her reply will be very telling.

 

Sorry, I think you've taken a wrong turn somewhere. Confronting her with what you know is understandable. But to go for a joint massage the next day and do some window-shopping... not so OF COURSE IT WAS A HIT WITH HER, YOU ARE BASICALLY REWARDING HER FOR BEING A (POTENTIAL) CHEAT..

 

YOU tried to hold her hand and SHE flinched! She's trying, and succeeding, to sweep the infidelity away and get her power back with you earning her affections. She tested the water, and you flopped.

 

She probably realised at that moment that she could probably get away with anything and you'd be willing to keep working on the relationship. And her respect for you plummeted further. She should be begging for your forgiveness, and you should be mostly hard to please and ready to call your divorce lawyer at any minute. SHE WAS HAVING SOME KIND OF AFFAIR GODDAMIT, MAN UP.

[etrain1234]

You have to 'til Tuesday ignore your wife (i.e. no emotional comments or attempts to be physical, unless she initiates). You help around the house and be a great partner.

 

However go to the park, a bar to watch football, see friends..... Don't play the sad puppy game.

 

Good Luck.

 

The MOST powerful posture you can present to her is the most difficult. You need to seem calm and indifferent. If you succeed she will reach out to you. PREPARE yourself. She will eventually do that to see if she can still get you to react. If she reaches out for you - step back and say "when I hear you tell me you are committed to making this work - we can touch each other. Until I hear you say that, mean it and show it in your actions regarding other men - I prefer to not be touched by you." AND you need to BELIEVE THAT. Her touching you will just be to reassure herself that you are still a solid plan B.

 

Do NOT do chores in front of her. It smacks of trying to score points. Do your fair share nothing more.

 

I'm doing exactly what you guys suggested. She's out shopping & I'm watching some football. She actually did a couple minor things for me this morning...made my coffee...checked to make sure I have lunch stuff for work this week. Like I said, very minor.

I'm finding that I'm much happier today because she's not home. I'll be going down to our basement to work out (& watch some more football) when she gets home.

No more going out of my way to suck up to her. I'm finished with that nonsense. Time for HER to do something.

[seibert253]

E. Everyone's right here. It's time to distance yourself from her. Have you read about the 180. Read up on it and learn it. Start it today.

 

At MC lay it all on the line. At the end give her your ultimatum. ME, or HIM. Tell her; you can choose me, stay and work on fixing this, or choose him, pack your things and move out.

 

She'll probably do like my W did and waffle, "I don't know, I need time", yada yada. I gave her 7 days, let her know that at the end of day 7 if she hadn't chose I was filing for D, then went above and beyond the 180. I basically ignored her and did my own thing. THE ONLY communication I had with her was about our son, NOTHING ELSE. I would ask her if she was going to be home for awhile, she would say yes, and I would leave. Wouldn't say a word. Would come home later and go straight to the guest room. Ignored all her "where were you's".

 

Look E, play time is over. It's time for her to Sh#t or get off the pot.

[mem11363]

Etrain,

When I was about 35 - I got very jammed up. Not my fault but suddenly my job, my financial position/net worth and ultimately my marriage were all at risk. I was frightened and angry. The situation hung by a thread for almost one month. This is what I did:

- I went somewhere private every couple of days and I screamed, I howled. I cursed and shouted, and yes I cried. By myself. For a good hour or so.

- I made sure to get a full night sleep every night

- I exercised like a fiend

- I explained to my wife that things I/we had some exposure (I was the sole breadwinner, we had just had a 3rd child, my wife had zero interest in working until our youngest was at least in first grade)

- She listened, empathized a little (very little) and said I am sure you will figure this out. I realized I was in this situation alone. :(

- The main person who was going to decide whether my career survived or died - never saw me emotional. Not once in that month. Whenever I spoke to him I followed a very careful script. I did not deviate from my plan.

- At the end of the month he did the right thing, made good on his groups commitment and my "near death" experience ended.

 

I did need to vent my fury and my sadness as this was happening. I just did that alone.

 

 

E. Everyone's right here. It's time to distance yourself from her. Have you read about the 180. Read up on it and learn it. Start it today.

 

At MC lay it all on the line. At the end give her your ultimatum. ME, or HIM. Tell her; you can choose me, stay and work on fixing this, or choose him, pack your things and move out.

 

She'll probably do like my W did and waffle, "I don't know, I need time", yada yada. I gave her 7 days, let her know that at the end of day 7 if she hadn't chose I was filing for D, then went above and beyond the 180. I basically ignored her and did my own thing. THE ONLY communication I had with her was about our son, NOTHING ELSE. I would ask her if she was going to be home for awhile, she would say yes, and I would leave. Wouldn't say a word. Would come home later and go straight to the guest room. Ignored all her "where were you's".

 

Look E, play time is over. It's time for her to Sh#t or get off the pot.

[etrain1234]

seibert...I did not read up on 180. Where can I read up on that?

 

Since it's called a 180, I'm guessing it's somethinng like doing the opposite of what she'd expect you to do...or what you'd normally do...but I'm not exactly sure what it means in this context.

 

Thanks.

[hopesndreams]

Respect precedes love. She has stopped loving you, I'm sorry, that is a difficult thing to hear. In order for her to love you again, she needs to respect you.

 

She's still in the house, you are both still together...the time to act is NOW. Don't be a wuss. Make her earn what you give out. Yes, it will take awhile, but if you go back and forth on being the good, dutiful H and the one who can tell her to take a hike, you have lost the battle.

 

Doing nothing at this point, is doing something and it's the only chance you have at a favourable outcome for you. Once you do get her back, you will one day look back and think it wasn't worth the pain, then you will detach and she'll be the one in the situation you are in now.

[seibert253]

seibert...I did not read up on 180. Where can I read up on that?

 

Since it's called a 180, I'm guessing it's somethinng like doing the opposite of what she'd expect you to do...or what you'd normally do...but I'm not exactly sure what it means in this context.

 

Thanks.

 

www.survivinginfidelity.com

 

That's were I found it. Alot of good peeps there.

Also read the Healing Library. Helped me alot.

[etrain1234]

Thanks. I'll check that out.

 

BTW, the W deleted all IMs to/from her evil FB friend...so I'll never get to see her reply about the OM.

Anybody know a good free (or cheap) keylogger I can try? I used a 3 day free trial to get her FB & email PW info but that has expired.

I need something that's very well hidden once installed. No icon on the taskbar, showing up in add/reomve programs or anything easy to find like that.

[Maladjusted]

I do agree with ChromeBarracuda that this friend of hers has to go. Misery loves company and it looks like this woman has now found a kindred spirit in your wife.

 

I have been in a similar situation. I posted it here a year ago. I will tell you this. The marriage counseling didn't work. The reason it didn't work is because my wife was lying to the marriage counselor. My point is that a marriage counselor isn't going to solve all your problems for you and you can't hang your hopes on them.

 

As for me, I was much like you were at the stage you are in right now. I thought that by doing what she wanted, she would come back to me. I was happy at the little things like you are with the date you went on.

 

I was wrong. As a matter of fact, it was only when I found that anger inside me to stand up for myself that I was able to win my wife back, and I felt a hell of a lot better about myself for not allowing myself to be walked over anymore.

 

I think that you are doing everything that you can to save your marriage, but none of that does any good if she isn't willing to meet you halfway and then some. That includes getting rid of this friend and everything else that she is doing that is detrimental to a healthy marriage.

 

BTW, this is pure speculation, but I would guess that around the time your wife became "depressed" something happened. I wouldn't be surprised if she hadn't had an affair earlier and has spent this past year blaming you for her own discrepancies. She has way too much negativity towards you (as evidenced in her correspondence with her friend) for this to be a recent thing I think

[Trojan John]

Thanks. I'll check that out.

 

BTW, the W deleted all IMs to/from her evil FB friend...so I'll never get to see her reply about the OM.

Anybody know a good free (or cheap) keylogger I can try? I used a 3 day free trial to get her FB & email PW info but that has expired.

I need something that's very well hidden once installed. No icon on the taskbar, showing up in add/reomve programs or anything easy to find like that.

 

Google search for some good keyloggers, then use bit torrent to download said keylogger torrent plus the crack/registration keygen to make it free.

[etrain1234]

I decided against the keylogger & stopped snooping. I think I saw what I needed to see & I'm finished driving myself crazy by reading that stuff. It won't change anything.

 

I did read some 180 info & have been trying to do it for the past couple days. Seems to have worked to some degree. I'm not nearly as stressed out as I was before & I think excercising and giving myself some ME time has helped.

 

Have to run.

We'll be leaving for our first MC session in about 10 minutes so that should give me a really good idea of how committed my W is.

I'll try to keep all of you updated but it's difficult since this site is now blocked at my employer.

[etrain1234]

First MC session didn't go well. It turned into my W bringing up mommy/daddy issues & talking about how HER needs aren't being met...how she always put HER needs on the backburner & played the role of peacekeeper...even as a child growing up. Her family is pretty messed up so I can understand her issues but I don't think the 5 (now only 4 remaining) MC sessions we have left are going to help her work through her individual issues. I honestly think she needs IC....but doubt she'll get it.

I didn't get to say a whole lot but I did bring up the OM & my W stuck to her story about it being the first time they've ever emailed each other "that way". The MC recommended she put an end to the EA and cut off contact so she can work on our M. My W said she has already done that & already sent him a NC email.

 

The MC made my W promise to not make any rash decisions until she's giving the MC a chance....and asked me to TRUST that the relationship with OM is over. A tall order but I'll try.

 

We ran out of time at the MC so we continued our discussion when we got home. I confessed to my snooping & brought up the evil FB friend. I'm finished holding things in. W was upset that I snooped and said just because the FB friend says something, doesn't mean she's going to listen. W also said she hasn't been in contact with the FB friend since last Thurs or Fri. Sunday's 71 minute phone call on her cell says otherwise. Whatever. I said my piece & made it clear that the FB friend is NOT a friend to our M.

 

We talked some more & I expressed my concern that my W isn't committed to making our M work & that I've been doing all the work. She didn't disagree and when I pressed the issue, went as far as to say she doesn't really have any hope that the MC will change things & isn't sure she EVER loved me.

I think that pretty much sums up where we are right now.

 

If 4 more MC sessions can turn this M around, I'll be shocked. I'll be honest...the thought of being almost 40 & starting over scares the hell out of me. But I think that's a reality I better get used to.

[carhill]

LOL, at least get her to pay for MC. This doofus paid for the pleasure of dealing with that cr@p week in and week out. After awhile, I began to see it as IC with an extra person in the room and that helped me get something positive out of it.

[giotto]

& isn't sure she EVER loved me.

 

 

ouch! What an awful thing to say...

[etrain1234]

ouch! What an awful thing to say...

 

Yep. Horrible.

I guess our 12 years together have been a lie.

[burning 4 revenge]

If 4 more MC sessions can turn this M around, I'll be shocked. I'll be honest...the thought of being almost 40 & starting over scares the hell out of me. But I think that's a reality I better get used to.

Its good you can tell yourself the truth. Thas shows some intelligence and self respect

 

If I were you Id be more worried about protecting my assets with a good lawyer than MC....think about it this way..

 

If what youre really afraid of is being alone more than losing her...and I think bottom level thats the truth...protecting your assets will put you in a much better position to meet someone else after this is over.

 

If you let your emotions get the best of you and she has a clear head and comes at you like a shark than you could be supporting her future relationships with other men much more that you really ought to

[deux ex machina]

Its good you can tell yourself the truth. Thas shows some intelligence and self respect

 

If I were you Id be more worried about protecting my assets with a good lawyer than MC....think about it this way..

 

If what youre really afraid of is being alone more than losing her...and I think bottom level thats the truth...protecting your assets will put you in a much better position to meet someone else after this is over.

 

If you let your emotions get the best of you and she has a clear head and comes at you like a shark than you could be supporting her future relationships with other men much more that you really ought to

 

Damn. That's some of the best advice I've seen lately.

 

OP, keep in mind that lots of men also make the mistake of "trying to be nice" while seeing mixed messages - and they end up very exposed when the time comes.

 

Be "selfish" with your energies right now. Why not? Everyone else is.

 

Best of luck.