Author etrain1234 Posted September 16, 2009 Author Posted September 16, 2009 Clarify...you did nail the situation with your earlier post. Do you think the email covo I posted is 100% proof on a full blown A? Could there possibly be any other logical explanation for it? My head is spinning so fast right now that I don't know what to think. My first reaction was to confront her & expose it. And that would surely end our M. Now I'm wondering if I should keep collecting evidence and saving it until I need it. I am starting to reach out to my friends & family for support on this...so some of them already know what's going on.
The Collector Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 In my opinion that exchange is from people who have had sex - but crucially it doesn't prove it. Be patient and you might well get that proof - one way or another. Confront now and you may never get those answers. You'll get 'he was just a nice guy that listened to my problems with you, but because you're such a stalking, untrusting creep you actually drove me away and into his bed. Prove otherwise to a court buddy.'
Author etrain1234 Posted September 16, 2009 Author Posted September 16, 2009 Having never gone through any of this before, what will come out of having this "proof" if we get to divorce court? Better custody deal w/ my son? Paying less alimony because she cheated? Sorry if these are silly questions. This is all new to me.
The Collector Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 Having never gone through any of this before, what will come out of having this "proof" if we get to divorce court? Better custody deal w/ my son? Paying less alimony because she cheated? Sorry if these are silly questions. This is all new to me. I don't know either, though I'm sure someone else here does... I'd want to know for my own peace of mind, and for anyone else involved to know the truth. I agree that your wife's plan right now is probably to fake her way through MC, say 'well, that didn't work' and walk away smelling of roses. On another tip, does she ever encourage you to look for sex elsewhere or try and agitate you into violence? Both could be ploys to make you look bad come a divorce. I've seen it happen too.
mem11363 Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 Call a divorce lawyer today. Don't do anything else until you speak with the lawyer. The truth is that your marriage may or may not be fixable. But at this point one thing ANY objective person would agree: She and he are PLANNING to sleep together. I would not lay money either way on what they have done in the past. I would simply take 10 to 1 odds that when they next meet they will sleep together. The lawyer will tell you how to best protect your relationship with your children and your MONEY Having never gone through any of this before, what will come out of having this "proof" if we get to divorce court? Better custody deal w/ my son? Paying less alimony because she cheated? Sorry if these are silly questions. This is all new to me.
Thaddeus Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 Having never gone through any of this before, what will come out of having this "proof" if we get to divorce court? Better custody deal w/ my son? Paying less alimony because she cheated? Sorry if these are silly questions. This is all new to me.It depends on your jurisdiction. As I understand, it makes no difference whomever did the cheating, who left whom or anything of the sort. Property splits don't take any of that into consideration. That's why you need to see a lawyer and get those questions answered. Like, before the sun goes down today.
jmargel Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 Expose her to the situation, she is lying, disrespecting and cheating on you. Doesn't matter if she slept with him or not, she's having an emotional affair that is just as bad. She has you for a safety net, she knows as long as she keeps you in line with using fear she has you to fall back on. The trusty old dog that she can kick around. Women love confidence, it's time to change your ways of living. You need confidence within' you. Not just show it, but LIVE IT. Know that you will continue on without her. Honestly, today I would tell her 'I had enough with MC. This isn't working because you aren't being truthful. If you can lie and deceive even in MC, this isn't worth it.' Of course she'll ask why and let her know the truth. Give her until the end of the week to find a place and move her stuff out. MAKE HER FACE CONSEQUENCES. If you don't, you are just tolerating her behavior. You must go full force into this, if you don't then it'll give her more reason to kick you around. Honestly all the years i've helped people on here and my own experience, this is the ONLY way that gets them to start thinking about what they are doing. This will only save you from a long torturous process. By not following my suggestion, then you are eventually going to get divorced while getting f'ed in the process. Also get checked for STDs. You can't trust her, she is no longer your wife. She is not your wife until she starts acting like one.
Author etrain1234 Posted September 16, 2009 Author Posted September 16, 2009 On another tip, does she ever encourage you to look for sex elsewhere or try and agitate you into violence? Both could be ploys to make you look bad come a divorce. I've seen it happen too. She's never done that & she knows I'd never hit her. We barely argue and when we do, there's never any throwing things, punching walls...nothing like that. I'm in the process of finding a divorce lawyer. So that's a start.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 Call the EAP right now. They will walk you through it and give you the right advise. Get a counseling session (hopefully for the 2 of you) for tomorrow. Everyone (or at least many) here want you to start divorce procedures and kick her out. Many here have been too hurt in the past and are vindictive. They may be 100% right, but you need to keep your cool the next 24 hours at least.
mem11363 Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 Just to clarify. I am not suggesting you divorce her. I am saying that a lawyer will explain your options and risks. I do no guys who, when they confronted the wife, her next move was to clean out the checking accounts. Not saying that will happen, just saying a lawyer can give objective advice about how to protect yourself if it does not work out. You don't need to escalate and tell her you went to a lawyer, that is a choice. But the MC folks are not going to help you protect YOU. They are going to try to be totally balanced and at least initially assume you are both being truthful. Call the EAP right now. They will walk you through it and give you the right advise. Get a counseling session (hopefully for the 2 of you) for tomorrow. Everyone (or at least many) here want you to start divorce procedures and kick her out. Many here have been too hurt in the past and are vindictive. They may be 100% right, but you need to keep your cool the next 24 hours at least.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 Just to clarify. I am not suggesting you divorce her. I am saying that a lawyer will explain your options and risks. I do no guys who, when they confronted the wife, her next move was to clean out the checking accounts. Not saying that will happen, just saying a lawyer can give objective advice about how to protect yourself if it does not work out. You don't need to escalate and tell her you went to a lawyer, that is a choice. But the MC folks are not going to help you protect YOU. They are going to try to be totally balanced and at least initially assume you are both being truthful. Not disagreeing..... The EAP (if well run) will direct them to the proper lawyer and information he needs. I agree with the lawyer, considering what he has found in order to protect his assets and any info he needs if there is a case. Just saying the fervor of some to say a divorce is inevitable and to pack her bags when she comes home.... is over the top.
Mr. Lucky Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 Wow, this sucks. Good advice here, summed up as to taking your time and thinking things through before acting. Less is usually more under these circumstances... Mr. Lucky
Author etrain1234 Posted September 17, 2009 Author Posted September 17, 2009 Call the EAP right now. They will walk you through it and give you the right advise. Get a counseling session (hopefully for the 2 of you) for tomorrow. Everyone (or at least many) here want you to start divorce procedures and kick her out. Many here have been too hurt in the past and are vindictive. They may be 100% right, but you need to keep your cool the next 24 hours at least. I did call my EAP. The counselor talked me down and gave me some ways to effectively communicate my findings to my W. Some of you might rip me for not taking the advice but I did confront her with it when she got home from work. I just couldn't hold it in. My heart got the better of my head this time. Surprisingly she did not fly off the handle & accuse me of spying. I think she was shocked and embarassed that I found out. Now I don't really believe a word she says these days but she claimed they have been "friends" for a couple weeks & this is the first time their convo's have been flirtatious. W said they've never done anything physical. I'm sure she's lying. But either way, I made it clear to her that our M is over if she continues doing stuff like that behind my back. Spouses don't disrespect each other that way. No secrets & lots of honestly. That's the only way this is going to work. She has been very quiet since...and looks like she's feeling guilty, as well she should. Maybe confronting her was a big mistake. Maybe nothing will change except them being more careful from now on & limiting their convo's to work. I could wake up to see more FB IM's or emails ripping me for being a crazed, spying, jealous, lunatic H. Or maybe the embarassment & guilt will snap her out of it. I'll be monitoring her every damn move until I'm sure this is the end of the EA/A/whatever it was. And it will be one of the major talking points at MC next Tuesday.
mem11363 Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 This is your marriage - you have to do what you think is right. Just some objective 3rd party comments: - If she cares about your marriage she will come to you and offer to end communication/interaction with this guy - She will offer to stop socializing at work events in your hometown until your marriage is on solid footing - She will stop trying to "minimize" this by calling it flirtatious. It was way, way beyond flirtatious. It was everything but a specific direct statement that they would have sex. They both signalled very, very clearly that they were going to take it "physical at their next meeting". At this point unless she totally falls on her sword and works to make it better.... I think it is clear what she is about. I did call my EAP. The counselor talked me down and gave me some ways to effectively communicate my findings to my W. Some of you might rip me for not taking the advice but I did confront her with it when she got home from work. I just couldn't hold it in. My heart got the better of my head this time. Surprisingly she did not fly off the handle & accuse me of spying. I think she was shocked and embarassed that I found out. Now I don't really believe a word she says these days but she claimed they have been "friends" for a couple weeks & this is the first time their convo's have been flirtatious. W said they've never done anything physical. I'm sure she's lying. But either way, I made it clear to her that our M is over if she continues doing stuff like that behind my back. Spouses don't disrespect each other that way. No secrets & lots of honestly. That's the only way this is going to work. She has been very quiet since...and looks like she's feeling guilty, as well she should. Maybe confronting her was a big mistake. Maybe nothing will change except them being more careful from now on & limiting their convo's to work. I could wake up to see more FB IM's or emails ripping me for being a crazed, spying, jealous, lunatic H. Or maybe the embarassment & guilt will snap her out of it. I'll be monitoring her every damn move until I'm sure this is the end of the EA/A/whatever it was. And it will be one of the major talking points at MC next Tuesday.
seibert253 Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 E, I don't think I'd waste my time on MC right now. It would do no good. As long as the OM is in the picture, all the counseling in the world will do no good. You are the fall back on. She wants to keep you hanging around in case this thing falls through. I think you need to call her out right now. You need to confront her. But, before you do, I think you need to let the OM's wife know what's going on. The one, two punch effect. Yeah she's gonna be pizzed, she's gonna blame everything on you, No, Wrong. Yeah honey I spyed on you, because I knew you where involved in something inappropriate, and guess what, I'm right. Don't do anything until you talk with the OM's wife. After you talk with her, get her to promise not to say anything to him until the following day. Tell her after you confront your WW, then you will send her copies of your evidence. Getting her to wait to confront her WH, will give you time to blindside your wife with your confrontation. If the OM's wife confronts him before you confront your WW, right after the OM gets his confrontation, the first thing he is going to do is call your wife and let her know what's up. You want to avoid this because you want the element of surprise when you confront her. Let the OM's wife know that immediately after you confront your WW, you will calling her so she can confront her husband. Get her cellphone number and program it into your phone. When you confront her, be firm and unemotional. Yeah this is going to be hard, but you need to appear you do not give a Fu#k, and she needs to see this. She needs to see that unless she shapes up, she's out the door. And, you need to prepare to do just exactly that. It' reality time baby. When you confront, make sure the kids are gone, out of the home. Sit her down and tell her you know about what's going on with OM, (insert his name here). Before she says anything, tell her this is her one and only opportunity to come clean to you about their relationship. Let her know if she lies or omits information, you've already consulted with an attorney and you will D her. She will probably get mad, accuse you of spying, blame everything on you, yada, yada. Cut her off and let her know SHE'S the one who initiated the affair, and the conversation that the two of you are having right now. Let her know if this wasn't going on, then you would not be talking about this, right here, right now. Do not reveal how you got your information. If she lies, minimizes, downplays, he's just a friend, coworker, we just talk, blah, blah; then pull out the emails and start reading them to her. Ask her how her mother, father, other close relative of your choice, will feel about her having these conversations with someone other than you WW's husband. When all is said and done tell her the bottom line is this. Her relationship and what she's been involved in is an affair. No if's and's or but's. It is wrong and either it stops, she ends all contact with the OM, and she commits to repairing your marriage, or she moves out and you are going to divorce her. You need to stay strong when you give her this ultimatuim. Tell her she needs to chose, the OM or you. Tell her you will forgive her and you want to work through this. Then IMMEDIATELY leave the room and call the OM's to let her know you confronted your WW. Try to do this without your WW knowing. You want the OM's wife to have the opportunity of surprise. Do not wait because your wife will call the OM immediately. I wouldn't wait for your MC appointment for the reasons I outlined earlier. I would do this as soon as possible. If for nothing else, for your own sanity. I will be praying for you E. Keep us updated Good Luck and God Bless
seibert253 Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 I did call my EAP. The counselor talked me down and gave me some ways to effectively communicate my findings to my W. Some of you might rip me for not taking the advice but I did confront her with it when she got home from work. I just couldn't hold it in. My heart got the better of my head this time. Surprisingly she did not fly off the handle & accuse me of spying. I think she was shocked and embarassed that I found out. Now I don't really believe a word she says these days but she claimed they have been "friends" for a couple weeks & this is the first time their convo's have been flirtatious. W said they've never done anything physical. I'm sure she's lying. But either way, I made it clear to her that our M is over if she continues doing stuff like that behind my back. Spouses don't disrespect each other that way. No secrets & lots of honestly. That's the only way this is going to work. She has been very quiet since...and looks like she's feeling guilty, as well she should. Maybe confronting her was a big mistake. Maybe nothing will change except them being more careful from now on & limiting their convo's to work. I could wake up to see more FB IM's or emails ripping me for being a crazed, spying, jealous, lunatic H. Or maybe the embarassment & guilt will snap her out of it. I'll be monitoring her every damn move until I'm sure this is the end of the EA/A/whatever it was. And it will be one of the major talking points at MC next Tuesday. Forget my earlier post. You did a FANTASTIC JOB. Way to go. Sometime soon, you will have to give her the ultimatum, Me or him. As I said earlier, tell her you are willing to forgive her and work through this but the following has to occur, these are not up for negotiation. She either does these or you will be filing for D: 1. End all contact with the OM, and send him a no contact letter/email. Simple and to the point, our relationship is over, never contact me again. Make sure you proof read this before she sends it. 2. She gives you full access to her email accounts/passwords, and cellphone. 3. She commits to MC and IC as necessary. Reinforce the fact that unless she does the above, she will be moving out and you will be filing for D. You need to contact the OM's wife ASAP and fill her in on what's going on. Once she lays the smackdown on her WH, I doubt him contacting your wife will be a problem.
Mr. Lucky Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Now I don't really believe a word she says these days but she claimed they have been "friends" for a couple weeks & this is the first time their convo's have been flirtatious. W said they've never done anything physical. Wrong. This is at least an EA: W: I can't wait to see you too! I've been thinking about you alot lately, if you haven't been able to tell. Man! I'm so obvious! LOL I'd print out all the emails and take them with you to MC. It would make for a good starting point... Mr. Lucky
LakesideDream Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Men ask "what can I do to improve our marriage"? Women reply: "Be more helpful around the house". This is the first step in your and she being partners in turning YOU into an anxious, desperate doormat. I had two D days, the premature one 20 months before the "real" one. I was already pretty good around the house. Did 80% cooking (self preservation) and laundry and stuff. I stepped that up to 85% of everything. Mopping floors and cleaning bathrooms.. blah blah. Little did I know that she had already "checked out" and was just laughing at the efforts.
The Collector Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 To quote Chris Rock re the possible sex, 'I KNOW you did it, just ADMIT it.' Just keep saying that until she crumbles. Pretend you now have more proof she hasn't seen. Tell her the marriage is over and all her friends will know unless she comes clean.
Author etrain1234 Posted September 19, 2009 Author Posted September 19, 2009 Minor update: I've been "investigating" some more. W has sent a couple more IMs to her FB friend that actually jive with the story (excuse) she gave me. Saying the flirty email I posted was the first time she chatted with the OM outside of work. They're not having an A. She just got caught up with all the positive attention she was getting. Now one of three things is happening here: 1. My W is being truthful and this really was the first time they cyber-flirted. 2. She's not only lying to me but also lying to the FB friend so she doesn't look like a cheating creep. 3. She knows I'm checking her FB IM's so she's "planting" bogus messages on there to throw me off the trail. (There was 1 FB message from the friend that was deleted. Covering her tracks???) I'm leaning toward #2. Anyway, we have a "date night" planned for tomorrow & that will almost certainly wind up being a disaster. I don't trust her & she gets physically ill whenever she's around me. Good times.
Author etrain1234 Posted September 19, 2009 Author Posted September 19, 2009 Oh, and this site is now blocked at my work. It wasn't blocked until this past Thursday. Hopefully they're not monitoring me since I called the EAP. I better be careful. Don't wanna lose my job in the middle of this mess.
seibert253 Posted September 19, 2009 Posted September 19, 2009 Minor update: I've been "investigating" some more. W has sent a couple more IMs to her FB friend that actually jive with the story (excuse) she gave me. Saying the flirty email I posted was the first time she chatted with the OM outside of work. They're not having an A. She just got caught up with all the positive attention she was getting. Now one of three things is happening here: 1. My W is being truthful and this really was the first time they cyber-flirted. 2. She's not only lying to me but also lying to the FB friend so she doesn't look like a cheating creep. 3. She knows I'm checking her FB IM's so she's "planting" bogus messages on there to throw me off the trail. (There was 1 FB message from the friend that was deleted. Covering her tracks???) I'm leaning toward #2. Anyway, we have a "date night" planned for tomorrow & that will almost certainly wind up being a disaster. I don't trust her & she gets physically ill whenever she's around me. Good times. I'm leaning toward #3. She's covering her tracks. She's already notified her FB friend what's going on and he's helping in the cover up. Let us know how the Date goes. Oh, the reason she's getting sick around you is because of her guilt. Tell her that, then tell her her guilt will only get worse until she reveals everything. Get it off you chest syndrome.
Author etrain1234 Posted September 19, 2009 Author Posted September 19, 2009 I'm leaning toward #3. She's covering her tracks. She's already notified her FB friend what's going on and he's helping in the cover up. Let us know how the Date goes. Oh, the reason she's getting sick around you is because of her guilt. Tell her that, then tell her her guilt will only get worse until she reveals everything. Get it off you chest syndrome. Thanks for the advice. I plan on bringing all of that up at our MC session on Tues.
Author etrain1234 Posted September 20, 2009 Author Posted September 20, 2009 Date night went pretty well, IMO. The couples' massage was definitely a hit. We really needed that. Afterwards, we had dinner and did some window shopping. We got along well. The only hiccup I can think of was when I tried to playfully hold my W's hand on the walk from the car to the restaurant & she said, "I'm not ready for that yet." Oh well. It still feels very one sided with me doing all the work to save this M...but that's not going to stop me from trying. One sour note for today. For some reason my Ws evil FB friend is determined to see our M end. I told you how they IM'd each other discussing my W's internet flirting the other night. Well now this woman is excusing my W's behavior by saying, well, it's hard to not give in to getting such positive attention. And asking my wife if there's a potential future with this OM & if she's attracted to him. Way to encourage my W to have an affair! My God! If this is the kind of "advice" my W is getting, we don't stand a chance. Now I get to sit back & wait for my W's response. Her reply will be very telling.
mem11363 Posted September 20, 2009 Posted September 20, 2009 cheat on you - which is what SHE did - you don't get to hold HER hand. So you are still going to continue to act more interested in her then she is in you. Huge mistake - you are reinforcing her idea that you don't deserve her and that she deserves better then you. A man who felt like he was in a marriage of equals - would not have done a massage night before getting a total grovelling apology/commitment to end all communication with the bad guy and her telling you she wants to fix her "desire issues". You keep chasing her and she will walk away. If she isn't willing to chase you at this point - you need to act indifferent and start planning for life without her. I thought the sequence was: Wife starts to fall for other man and THEN comes to you and says I don't love you/want sex with you anymore. TOTAL betrayal of your vows. And yet you are asking if you can hold HER hand? I really think YOUR behavior is going to influence things way more then her FB friend. You need to act way stronger. Date night went pretty well, IMO. The couples' massage was definitely a hit. We really needed that. Afterwards, we had dinner and did some window shopping. We got along well. The only hiccup I can think of was when I tried to playfully hold my W's hand on the walk from the car to the restaurant & she said, "I'm not ready for that yet." Oh well. It still feels very one sided with me doing all the work to save this M...but that's not going to stop me from trying. One sour note for today. For some reason my Ws evil FB friend is determined to see our M end. I told you how they IM'd each other discussing my W's internet flirting the other night. Well now this woman is excusing my W's behavior by saying, well, it's hard to not give in to getting such positive attention. And asking my wife if there's a potential future with this OM & if she's attracted to him. Way to encourage my W to have an affair! My God! If this is the kind of "advice" my W is getting, we don't stand a chance. Now I get to sit back & wait for my W's response. Her reply will be very telling.
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